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New Day Sunday

Malls in U.S., U.K. and Canada on Target List; ISIS Parades Captured Soldiers in Cages; "American Sniper" Trial: Closing Arguments Could Begin Tomorrow

Aired February 22, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: But two of the potential targets, Minnesota's Mall of America, and Canada's West Edmonton Mall. They say they're taking extra security precautions.

Let's go now to CNN senior international correspondent Nima Elbagir in London. Help us understand the timing here for why al Shabaab at least says it is making these threats now.

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it comes off the back of the recent killing and U.S. airstrike of the head of the Amniyat, their intelligence unit. So, there is, obviously, a lot of pressure on al Shabaab within their community and within the broader presence online to respond to that, to be seen to respond to that.

But also, you get the sense watching this video that this is very much a rebranding exercise. This is slicker than anything we have seen from al Shabaab for a while. And we haven't seen al Shabaab able to carry off the kind of attacks that they promised post- Westgate, post that horrible attack on the shopping mall in Kenya.

So, it is a way for al Shabaab to remind the world that when we did what we say we did, it was -- it was pretty spectacular. It is kind of harking back almost to what they see as the glory days. But, at the same time, it is also bringing with it the specter of those horrible attacks in Paris and Copenhagen. The worries and the fears of lone wolf attacks of Europe and the U.S. are very real at the moment. And al Shabaab is piggybacking off them and exploiting them and especially given that U.S. authorities have been very candid about the fact that the Somalia American community has very much been recruiting ground zero for ISIS and al Shabaab before it, Victor.

BLACKWELL: You know, one of the things you've just mentioned, the slick element of this video. We have seen that element from ISIS as well. And there has been extensive reporting about the competition between al Qaeda and this is an al Qaeda affiliated group and ISIS. Is this likely a continuation of that jockeying for supremacy and global jihad?

ELBAGIR: Absolutely. And they made mention of the deceased leader of al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, Anwar al Awlaki, to remind people almost we got there first. There is so many of these groups, they pitch above their weight through the propaganda outreach and al Shabaab really started this back between 2006 and 2011. Federal authorities believe that some 27 Somali Americans traveled to fight there and these are the same groups almost of young men and women, that these jihadists are competing for the attention now. A lot of heading to Syria to fight with ISIS.

It's at its basis level and this is very supercilious way of putting it, that it's a competition of resources between these two groups of extremists, and videos like this are a way to grab the attention of those vulnerable young men and women.

BLACKWELL: How much do authorities know about al Shabaab? We hear these numbers about is. The thousands of members, where they are coming from in the Western world to join. Do authorities have that much information about al Shabaab as well?

ELBAGIR: Al Shabaab is a lot more difficult because, while there, there was a sense that al Shabaab had been pushed out and pushed out of Mogadishu. Even they're out of many of the urban centers and that has affected their ability to carry out these propaganda campaigns. But with Westgate, you really saw a resurgent al Shabaab and followed up crossing between Kenya and Somalia. They do have a capacity and how much of a capacity people don't have a sense of.

But as Paris and Copenhagen have shown, you don't really need to have that capacity there on the ground. What you need to do is you need to reach out to these vulnerable young minds and provoke and inspire them. And that is so dangerous about it and what al Shabaab is playing. In that video, they put up the coordinates of the Mall of America and mall in Edmonton to make that point. We don't need to do anything but put that information out there and wait and see who acts on it.

BLACKWELL: All right. Nima Elbagir we want you to stay with us, though, because we are going to talk more about this new video we are seeing from ISIS as well.

So, the malls in the United States and Canada publicly now commenting on this latest threat.

Later this hour, we're going to tell you what they're doing and if homeland security is taking action.

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: And speaking, Victor, of that video by ISIS, this is a new threat, new video we want to show you. The terror group released this propaganda video showing at least 21 captured Kurdish Peshmerga fighters. You see them there. They were at one point they were parading through the streets of a crowded city in these cages atop pickup trucks.

CNN's international correspondent Ben Wedeman has more for us from Irbil, Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Christi, another video put out by ISIS. This one seems to show 21 Peshmerga fighters, Kurdish fighters. It appears they are south of Kirkuk itself.

You see them in these orange jumpsuits. Their hands are chained. They are being led by what appear to be ISIS fighters. They are in cages at one point being interviewed by a militant, a bearded militant who is holding a microphone with an ISIS logo on it, and they are asked what their names are, where they are from, and they are basically prompted to say that they regret fighting for the Peshmerga and they call upon their comrades to put down their arms and switch sides.

Now, obviously, these are statements made under duress. We don't know the fate of these fighters, although later in this nine- minute video, we do see them in cages on the back of pickup trucks, paraded through, we believe, the streets of the town of Hawija.

Now, at one point during the video, you do see flashes showing the beheading of Egyptian Christians in Libya last week, but there's no indication these fighters are actually killed. Now, the question is this going to have any impact on Kurdish morale?

From my experience on the front line with Peshmerga fighters, I don't think so. In fact, what we are hearing overnight is that despite their propaganda efforts, ISIS isn't doing very well on the battlefield. Overnight, we are told at least 50 of their fighters, including some foreign fighters, were killed when they tried unsuccessfully to break through Kurdish lines. Apparently, there were coalition aircraft in action over the area as well. So, propaganda has one effect but it actually finding and being able to repeal ISIS fighters seems to have more impact on Kurdish morale than a propaganda video -- Christi.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PAUL: All right. Ben Wedeman, appreciate it. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk more about with CNN global affairs analyst Lieutenant Colonel James Reese, and we want to bring back CNN senior international correspondent Nima Elbagir.

Colonel Reese, I want to start with you.

What do you think of this propaganda video from ISIS? There are some similarities shared with other videos, but some new elements here as well.

LT. COL. JAMES REESE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes, good morning, Victor. Just like you said, it's propaganda. We are going to do a lot of this start to ramp up here over the next couple of months as everyone starts to anticipate the cold line stance for the fight of Mosul.

And what ISIS is trying to break some of the will of the Iraqi and Peshmerga fighters and to make them look -- you know, they're asking them if they are doing the right thing. And, unfortunately, being in cages and showing this, this could be a precursor to what we saw with the Jordanian pilot and they start to ramp this up. This becomes a production over the next couple of weeks and months to, unfortunately, a possible end state of how those guys end up.

BLACKWELL: Nima, we spoke about the jockeying between these groups. And you see that that this is in ISIS style, very polish, even with a microphone with the logo, the flag there on there. I wonder if this is something that other groups are learning and seeing the success of ISIS and now trying to copy that?

ELBAGIR: Absolutely, you bet. I think it's important to remember that al Shabaab in a lot of ways kind of was the precursor to ISIS in terms of that propaganda outreach. So, they were the first who were attracting the kind of Western recruits that allowed them to bring in technology. At one point, there was even a U.S., an American al Shabaab fighter who was called the Hip-Hop Jihadi.

It was also laughable in a lot of ways but, at the same time, was the kind of the beginning of this ability to try or this attempt to try to speak to people in languages they understood. Even this latest al Shabaab video, they make a point of using an English speaker, one who had a very clear British accent or even perhaps a London accent. You can hear hints of it there, to kind of take this away from being the other crazy people with head scarves wrapped around their heads to someone that you might know walking down the street. Bring it really, really back home.

But definitely, we have seen the impact of ISIS just purely on production values. Every time we see a new video, it seems to get slicker and slicker.

BLACKWELL: Yes. Very sophisticated propaganda arm when you add the person-to-person and the social media and you can understand how they have been so successful.

Colonel Reese, I want to ask you specifically about these being Peshmerga fighters. The U.S. has placed a lot of confidence in Peshmerga, has supplied them with small arms ammunition. I wonder, even on the day after getting this video from ISIS of the Iraqi military Anbar post being seized, if this would in some way degrade the confidence that the U.S. has in the Peshmerga force?

REESE: No, victor, absolutely not. You know, one thing that most Americans will appreciate is the Peshmerga, their soldiers fight for the same values, very similar to U.S. soldiers. That means is when our soldiers go out, when they go out to fight, the first thing they fight for is themselves. And they are very true to themselves.

And so, what I believe this will happen to the Peshmerga even irate them even more, and get them more fired up and continue to press and push and get the right equipment and continue to push the Iraqi central government to get set for this fight that everyone is waiting for in the next couple of months.

BLACKWELL: And the other element of that conversation is that there are few other options in that country in which the U.S. can find allies to go after. You've got the Iraqi forces, you've got the Peshmerga and that is who you have until the U.S. or the global community decides to go in itself.

Lieutenant Colonel James Reese, Nima Elbagir, thank you both.

REESE: Thanks, Victor. Good morning.

BLACKWELL: You, too.

PAUL: So, still to come, after weeks of testimony, a Texas jury is going to have to decide soon whether a former marine is guilty of killing American sniper Chris Kyle. Here is the question today, should that jury be allowed to watch tonight's Academy Awards, since the movie is based on Kyle's life and it's up for several awards?

BLACKWELL: Also, it's another one-two punch for the East Coast -- cold and snow. But this has deadly consequences. Remember, when will it end? That's the question so many people are asking.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Closing arguments could begin tomorrow in the "American Sniper" trial. And, you know, for weeks, there's been this debate over the mental state of the man who killed Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield. And now, both sides will attempt to reinforce their final points to the jury.

The defense has been emphasizing that Eddie Ray Routh was schizophrenic at the time of the killing.

PAUL: However, prosecutors are downplaying the insanity defense and trying to prove Routh knew right from wrong at the one time. One potential factor before all of this even gets under way is the Oscars.

I mean, think about this. Tonight, the movie "American Sniper", based on the life of Chris Kyle, is nominated for several awards. It's been getting an awful lot of buzz.

HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson is joining us now. Good morning to you again, Joey.

So, the big question is -- I mean, let's look at Hernandez. The jury in that trial judge said you can watch the Super Bowl but if his name comes up, get out of the room. Should jurors avoid Oscar coverage tonight because of this movie?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning, Christi.

That's the big question: Judge Jackson would have said, yes, but Judge Jackson is not presiding. There's another Judge Carson who is and he hasn't made mention to it.

But listen to this, Christi. The reality is when the jurors are picked the issue is not whether you know about "American Sniper", whether you've seen the movie, whether or not, you know, you connected with the movie. The issue is, can you put that aside for the jury and can you understand that Hollywood is Hollywood? And this is a real- life trial involving people and issues and facts and events.

And the jury promises you during voir dire, that process where attorneys are selecting a fair and impartial jury, as the Sixth Amendment to the Constitution provides, that listen, as long as you can commit to us, to base a decision upon what you hear in this courtroom, then we're satisfied.

The second component to that, Christi, is the judge admonishes the jury saying don't listen to any media reports, don't be persuaded or influenced by any media reports, just be persuaded by what those lawyers say, but more importantly, what the witnesses say on the witness stand. We put a lot of trust in our jury system, hopefully, this jury can do it.

PAUL: All righty. Let's look ahead to closing arguments that we expect could begin as early as tomorrow. What do you think needs to be honed in on for both sides?

JACKSON: Sure, Christi. Well, listen, if you're the prosecutor, you're going to hone in on a person who may be trouble but certainly is not insane and there is so much evidence, ladies and gentlemen, to point out that he may be troubled, but he's is not insane like what?

He voluntarily, after he committed this act, he went and he left. That shows a consciousness of guilt. Ultimately, when the police caught up with him, he complied. Ultimately, yes, he took them on a high-speed chase but what insane person raises their hands and gets out of the car and gets on the ground? There is so much pointing here.

And, ladies and gentlemen, if you're the prosecutor, Christi, you're going to point out, this is about marijuana, it's about drug use, and that's not an excuse of why do you this, and you don't need experts to tell you. But our experts did tell you that he wasn't insane.

The defense, however, has a quite different story and they are going to say, base this case upon what we know and that is he couldn't distinguish between right from wrong. How do we know that? Look at his psychiatric history. Happy and go lucky before he went to Iraq, suicidal when he returned, and the evidence is in the psychiatric treatment he received both voluntarily and he was also committed.

And then, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, what did our experts tell you? That he saw flying pigs, that he was imagining pigs and half humans and hybrids, and he was hallucinating, he was psychotic, he was on medication.

So, ultimately, what that jury decides in terms of whether he knew right or wrong, Christi, is going to come down to what side connects more to their point to the jury and establishes whether he knew, that is Mr. Routh, as you see there, what he was doing was right or wrong, and, then, finally, finally, the standard of proof, the burden on the defense, is it more likely than not that he was insane? If the jury buys that, it's not guilty by reason of insanity but that, of course, is the big question.

PAUL: All right. So, Joey, as a man who has been in many courtrooms and knows how it works intimately, tell me, what does your gut tell you about the outcome of this trial?

JACKSON: You know, Christi, the problem is that insanity is looked upon with great skepticism. If you're not feeling well right now, Christi, I would be able to tell. You might be sniffling, you maybe sneezing a little bit, you may not be the same happy go lucky Christi that we all love.

But the reality is, is that when it comes to the state of mind, I can't look inside your head. So, the issue becomes, are you feigning it? Can we buy it and do we really know?

And that's why, generally speaking, we know insanity is used 100 percent, and 1 in 4 cases it prevails. But jurors are so skeptical and the prosecution did give the jury a reason to continue its skepticism. It's too close to call. If ever there was a case here you could prevail with insanity --

PAUL: Joey --

JACKSON: -- this could be the case. But I'm not convinced.

PAUL: -- are you not going to give me an answer?

JACKSON: Are you pinning me down?

PAUL: Yes. Do you or do you not think he is going to be found guilty?

JACKSON: I think that he has a shot in prevailing on the insanity defense. With that being said, I don't know. I'm not sure and I'm wishy-washy and it's too close to call.

PAUL: Yes, you are. All right. Still love you, Joey Jackson. Thank you.

JACKSON: Thank you, Christi. Have a great day.

PAUL: You too.

BLACKWELL: Hey, listen, it's dangerous out on these streets. I mean, I'm not meaning that figuratively. Literally, there is danger on the streets. Crashes, ice and sleet everywhere. Parts of Northeast, people are being warned to stay off the roads because getting around is not easy. Now, there may be a nice warm embracing light at the end of all this mess.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Oh, this rough weather is pounding cities all across the country and causing the death toll to climb. Now, at least 26 people have died as a result of this rough weather. We have just learned nearly 600 flights have been cancelled today.

PAUL: Yes, just today. This weather isn't just affecting the skies, though. Look that roads, I mean, they're just horrible. Snow contributing to treacherous conditions on the roadways, particularly in Maryland, we should point, where we understand some driver were getting stuck and the cold causing a large crack has formed on a highway, this is near Nashville. They have been hit by this winter weather. More than a half of the 26 deaths are coming from this state.

BLACKWELL: Let's bring in CNN's Ivan Cabrera. Is it over?

IVAN CABRERA, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Oh, well, for that area, it actually is.

BLACKWELL: OK.

CABRERA: So, we will start with that is good news and for places that are not used to driving in this, yes. So, this is a storm we had yesterday. This is the freezing rain that impacted places like Nashville. This is now pushing off to the East.

It is snowing right now in Boston, just not very heavily, so that's good. Just light snow. As the system moves east, we will be talking about perhaps a half an inch of accumulation and that would be about it. So, that is a good news.

And then we're actually going to take a break on the East Coast, as far as rain and snow, but the cold air is going to remain. And then we take you out west where we have more. Look at Denver here getting snowfall. It doesn't look that impressive but we do have significant snow accumulations.

And the higher elevation, we are going to be measuring feet, excellent if you're skiing out in Colorado and continue with a winter storm warning there. Take a look at this, just north of Durango and in the foothills there, and then get into the mountains, and that's what we're going to talk about, a couple of feet of snowfall.

But then there's this problem here, is the cold air is set up and then the moisture begins to move in. I think we are going to have some issues Monday morning in Dallas, where we will have an area of freezing rain and we'll have some ice accumulation as well. That is not just includes Dallas. But look at this -- portions of northern Louisiana as well. So that is going to be Monday morning event. Until we warm up the temperatures and then we will be done with that and it will be plain old rain.

But look at these current wind-chills, minus 30 to 40 across the north and where is that going? East, as you know. It is headed to the Northeast. Look at Monday morning, by the time you wake up, 11 in Boston and 7 in New York, this feels like temperatures. Five in Bangor, 17 in the nation's capital, and then if that wasn't bad enough, the cold air really gets entrenched and by the time we wake up on Tuesday morning, minus 16 in Boston, minus 4 in Philly, likewise in New York.

So, we take a break from the snow here but not from the very chilly conditions. In fact, dangerous if you're out there for a long time, so bundle up.

PAUL: Definitely. All right.

BLACKWELL: Ivan, thank you so much.

PAUL: So, extremist linked to al Qaeda are calling for attacks on really some of the biggest and busiest malls in the world and we are talking at least one of them right here in the U.S.

BLACKWELL: Yes, the latest on that threat and what malls are doing to protect you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL: The terror group al Shabaab is calling for attacks on shopping malls right here in the U.S., Canada and the U.K. This is a Somali based group and linked to al Qaeda. It's released this new propaganda video which is seen here, this man, his face covered, urging the attacks.

And one of the potential targets is the Mall of America in Bloomington, Minnesota. Another, that they call that by name, the West Edmonton Mall in Canada.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk more about the threat. We have CNN's Erin McPike with us, also CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes.

Erin, first to you, what are we hearing, if anything, from homeland security?

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Victor, Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson is scheduled to make the rounds on the major Sunday morning programs several hours from now and certainly will be asked about these threats.

You know, I also reached out to the National Security Council at the White House late last night. And as soon as we hear how the government plans to act, we will, of course, let you know.

Now, in the meantime, those mall facing threats are beefing up their security. Mall of America said overnight, quote, "We take any potential seriously and respond appropriately."