Return to Transcripts main page
New Day Sunday
Bodies Of Civilian Men Left In The Streets In The Town Of Bucha; U.S. Intel: Putin Aiming To Control Donbas By Early May; Ukraine: Need Heavier Weapons As Military Focus Shifts East; Fuel Depot On Fire After Russian Strike In Odessa; Odessa Hit By Russian Missile Strikes; Biden Administration To Facilitate Transfer Of Weapons To Ukraine. Aired 6-7a ET
Aired April 03, 2022 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SANCHEZ: Some with their hands tied behind their backs. The town's mayor says these men were shot dead by Russian forces. A member of Ukraine's parliament reacted to these images.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIRA RUDIK, UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER: I have seen these bodies with my own eyes. I have seen the destruction and this is something that I have never seen before in my life.
We will work on fixing the destructions but we cannot possibly return people who were killed. I can't not even imagine like who gave this order and why -- they were civilian people. They were not military.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JARRETT: All this as Ukraine is how braces for more attacks in the east as Russia shifts its strategy. According to U.S. intelligence, Russia's goal is to take control of the Donbas and other eastern regions by early May.
SANCHEZ: Ukraine is asking for heavy weaponry the meantime as Russia shifts its focus. The U.S. is expected to help transfer some Soviet- era tanks to Ukraine according to a source familiar with the plan.
JARRETT: We got all the angles covered on this story this morning for you from the White House, to the front lines in Ukraine. And we start this hour with Ed Lavandera in Odessa. Ed, good morning. What is the latest on this Russian attack there?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Laura. Well, just before sunrise, multiple rocket attacks jolted this city. This is what it sounded like. This is what it looked like when those missiles struck.
LAVANDERA: Now, those multiple missiles -- we counted probably around six at least and we were able to make it out to the scene there shortly after. And we saw plumes of smoke rising from a fuel storage facility in multiple locations. This is the most significant strike in this city since the early days of the Russian invasion into Ukraine. So it is a significant moment here for this city.
For much of the last week it has been rather quiet. And residents there in that neighborhood where this happened -- it is mostly an industrial neighborhood but there were a number of apartment buildings just across the street from the fuel storage facility. When we were there we could see the shattered glass from apartment windows that had fallen out of the building.
Several residents told us that over the last few days they had heard and seen drone reconnaissance, drones flying over the fuel storage facility, and that was all leading up to this morning of this attack. And the residents there also say that, you know, that they felt the impact of this for several minutes as these missiles were landing on that fuel storage facility.
Officials here in Odessa, military officials, say that there are no injuries to report at this time. While we were there we could see firefighters inside the fuel storage facility desperately working to put out the fire. But as you might be able to see over my shoulder, here more than about seven hours after this attack, the smoke and the fire still rages there at that fuel storage facility. Laura and Boris.
SANCHEZ: Ed, you and your crew stay safe out there. Thank you for the reporting.
Let's pivot now to Lviv in western Ukraine and that where we find CNN's Phil Black. Phil, Russian ground forces are moving out of the areas around Kyiv, but the situation obviously remains very dangerous for soldiers and civilians alike as we saw in those images just a few moments ago.
PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Boris, Laura, good morning. So I think there's real pride here in Ukraine at the fact that Ukrainian forces have beaten back Russia's attempts to first of all take the capital. And then when that failed, their attempts to encircle the capital.
As you say, the pictures that we're seeing out of this newly reclaimed land, territory, shows that there is extensive damage and debris, and the remains of Russian incinerated tanks and convoys and Russian soldiers. Real evidence of the fierceness of Ukraine's resistance there. But also evidence of what life was like for civilians under that Russian occupation while they did control that territory.
But as you touched on one particular stretch of road in the town of Bucha we see around 20 bodies at least, apparently civilians. Some of them with their arms bound behind their back. The clear implication there is these people were a threat to nobody at the moment they were killed.
So on one hand satisfaction that that land has been cleared, that Russian forces are withdrawing to the north. But it is tempered by the reality of what's expected to come and that is renewed offensive efforts by Russia particularly in the east as it works to expand and consolidate control of what's known as the Donbas region.
It's expected that they're going to reposition these forces to engage in new operations that could essentially see the Ukrainian defenders in that region being squeezed and perhaps cut off from the north and the south. And the fear is that if Russia does consolidate territory there it will establish fortified positions, a really strong line of control that Ukrainians think that will be very difficult to dislodge them from particularly with the Ukrainian military equipped as it currently is.
It's also interesting to know, I think, that U.S. officials, other observers increasingly believe that Vladimir Putin has set something of a deadline to have something to show for his efforts in the east of the country. And the deadline is May the 9th. It's known as victory day in Russia when the country traditionally marks the defeat of Nazi Germany. But more recently it has taken on a much greater significance as a celebration of Russian military glory, in a broader sense.
JARRETT: All right. Phil Black, thank you so much. We will check back with you in just a little bit.
Let's go now to Jasmine Wright. She is traveling with the president in Wilmington, Delaware. Jasmine, good morning. The Biden administration is working to get crucial weapons transferred to Ukraine. What more do we know?
JASMINE WRIGHT, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, that's right, Laura. It's clear that the U.S. and allies are trying to surge more weaponry into Ukraine as the fighting is expected to shift. And one could argue that they're trying to surge more advanced weaponry. That is something that Ukrainian President Zelenskyy has advocated for for the past week. Specifically he wants more tanks.
And so now a source tell CNN that the U.S. is planning to help facilitate the transfer of Soviet-era tanks from Allied nations into Ukraine as it helps -- trying to help bolster as the fight is shifting to the Donbas region, as we just heard Phil talk about. And now if this does happen this will be the first known time in this conflict that the U.S. has helped facilitate transfer of tanks.
Now we know that -- or rather what we don't know is just how many tanks they would be transferring, or when this happens. But a source tells CNN that it would come within days and not weeks. Now, of course, this news comes after the Pentagon announced on Friday that they would ship about 300 million in security to Ukraine and that includes more guns, drones, nighttime equipment and more things as it looks to really bolster Ukraine on the battlefield as it seeks to push out Russia. And what is not included in that package from the Pentagon is fighter jets. Something that Zelenskyy has been really adamant about having but the U.S. has said that it would not be practical and has basically declined that ask. Though what I think one thing is clear here, Laura, is that the U.S. officials have continued to say that they would in consultation with Ukrainians assess what is needed on the battlefield for Ukraine to try to be successful in these conflicts and then re- assess what is being sent to Ukraine with that consultation. I think that we can see that playing out right now here in real time. Laura, Boris.
SANCHEZ: Jasmine Wright traveling with the president in Wilmington, Delaware. Jasmine, thank you.
Let's dig deeper now. Former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor is with us now as is Retired Brigadier General Kevin Ryan. Gentlemen, thank you both for sharing part of your Sunday with us.
General Ryan, I want to start with you. The U.S. intelligence indicates that Russia is now focused on the eastern part of Ukraine, the Donbas region. Top Ukrainian officials say that the entire Kyiv region has been liberated from Russian forces. Is this a re-assessment for Russia or a complete shift in strategy?
BRIGADIER GENERAL KEVIN RYAN, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well, I think it's a re-assessment that's resulting in a shift in operations. The strategy still remains to take territory in Ukraine wherever they can. Now, the Russians will traditionally reinforce success, and there's been a lot of success for the Russians in the southern part of Ukraine but not as much in the north and the east. So they have elected to abandon their plans for Kyiv, at least at this time, and move those troops into the east where they're struggling a little bit, and take more territory.
In the south, they feel, I'm sure that they've been successful in creating this land corridor along the coast of the Black Sea. And I think we can see a real attempt to take Odessa as part of their operation.
SANCHEZ: Ambassador Taylor, peace appears a very lofty goal at this point but there are consultations and discussions under way. And CNN is reporting that the U.S. and allies are weighing exactly how to guarantee Ukraine's safety. If it ultimately gives a concession to Russia in abandoning its ambitions to join NATO, isn't that idea predicating on trusting that Vladimir Putin won't revisit some further aggression in the future, emboldened by getting what he wanted?
WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Boris, the Ukrainians understand, and I think the world understands, that you can't trust the Russians. That you have to make arrangements, you have to put in place security provisions that will ensure Ukraine's security going forward because of exactly what you say. President Putin has already lied to us. He said he wasn't going to invade. He clearly invaded. So for him to say he's not going to invade again, we won't believe it. So, I guess, to you question. How to ensure that Ukraine is secure going forward? They thought, Boris, that their security could be provided if they joined NATO, and they've now reluctantly concluded that's not going to happen anytime soon and they understand why. So they're looking for other ways to do that.
One way to do that is to become a status like Austria. Austria is a member of the European Union. It's not a member of NATO. But Ukraine needs more than that. Ukraine needs security guarantees. Not just assurances, Boris.
What Ukraine is looking for are guarantees from other nations, including the United States, including Britain, Poland, Germany, Turkey, that if they are invaded again, because they don't trust the Russians, again, if they are invaded, that these guarantor nations will come to their aid. That's what they're looking for.
The second thing they need, Boris, as an ultimate insurance is a strong military. So they will be looking for the ability, the authorization, the agreement that they can maintain a very strong military, like they have now. They're demonstrating they have got a strong military and they want to keep that.
SANCHEZ: Yes. So essentially a sort of Article 5 lite in a way. General, I want to ask you about the transfer of Soviet-era tanks to Ukraine. What are the implications on the battlefield? And I'm curious, how you think this is different from providing Ukraine with those old Soviet MiG-29s that Poland offered?
RYAN: Well, first of all, I think we should get out of the habit of calling weapons defensive or offensive. These weapons can be used in either kind of operations. So we shouldn't get hung up on whether the -- what kind of operation they will be used in.
I think that there isn't that much difference actually between providing aircraft and providing tanks at that level. I encourage the administration or the west to look into providing all of those kinds of weapons that it can, if we are not going to, for example, establish no-fly zone.
The U.S. has the greatest global logistics capability in the world and that is something that we can do. We can bring tanks from all over the world wherever they're donated and put them into the theater. So this is an important -- this is an important escalation, if you will, but it's one that Zelenskyy has been asking for and one that Ukraine can do a lot of good with.
SANCHEZ: Ambassador, Turkish President Erdogan says he told Vladimir Putin he would like to bring together the Russian leader and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy to get directly involved in peace efforts. That is something that Zelenskyy certainly has called for, but how likely is that a realistic scenario?
TAYLOR: Boris, it really depends entirely on President Putin. He has given no indication that he's ready to negotiate. He's given no indication that his delegation -- his delegation has been talking with the Ukrainians for weeks now and with no real result. And the reason they haven't had results is not because Ukrainians haven't put ideas, proposals, on the table. Some of which you've already described, Boris. No. The reason is that Russians have no authority.
President Putin has not yet decided that he needs to negotiate. When he decides -- when he realizes that he's been frustrated on the battlefield, he's been frustrated around Kyiv, when the Ukraine military has stopped his Russian military -- when President Putin realizes he's not going to get what he wants on the battlefield then he'll negotiate. Until then, he will keep -- he will keep delaying.
SANCHEZ: General, just broadly, we saw images just a few moments ago apparently in the city of Bucha there were bodies strewn on a road, apparently all civilians, some 20 men or so. What does that tell you about the tactics of the Russian forces at this point that these men were apparently assassinated and left out on a road, civilians?
RYAN: This tells me that, number one, the troops are undisciplined. The units are undisciplined and that the Russian military is in disarray.
A pullback from Kyiv didn't have to have those kinds of atrocities associated with it. I think we're seeing this across the board in all regions in Ukraine. We're going to hear about more atrocities like this as we go forward.
SANCHEZ: I'm afraid that is an accurate assessment. Ambassador Taylor, Brigadier General Ryan, thank you, gentlemen. Appreciate your time.
RYAN: Thank you.
JARRETT: Coming up for you, President Biden is celebrating a strong jobs report but many Americans are still struggling to keep up with these skyrocketing home prices we're seeing. So what should you do if you want to buy a home? That's coming up.
SANCHEZ: Plus, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban hoping to win a fourth term today but the war in Ukraine could upend his re-election. We dig deep in just a few minutes. Stay with us.
SANCHEZ: Right now voters in Hungary are heading to the polls. Prime Minister Viktor Orban faces a rare challenge from a united coalition of opposition parties. Leading that united opposition is Peter Marki- Zay, a small town mayor who has painted Orban as a budding authoritarian following Putin's model because of Orban's close ties to the Russian president. Orban has faced international criticism over Hungary's backslide from Democratic standards. On Saturday, as you can see here, many people took to the streets in Budapest to rally against the prime minister showing their support for Ukraine. Ukrainian officials say more than 4,000 civilians were evacuated through humanitarian corridors on Saturday. According to the U.N. Refugee Agency, millions of Ukrainians have been forced from their homes but remain in the country. More than 4 million have left their homeland for safety in other parts of Eastern Europe.
JARRETT: CNN's Salma Abdelaziz joins us now live near the Polish- Ukrainian border. Salma, nearly 2.5 million refugees have crossed into Poland alone. You've been following this story for weeks now. What are you seeing there today?
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: Absolutely. I'm at a train station right along the border here. This train station, hundreds of families every day flow through here escaping violence but then it has also become a half-way point because they have to figure out -- they cross into safety but they have to figure out what they're going to do next.
And I really want to show you what greets them when they arrive. So the train station doors are just through there. You can see these crowds of people coming through. They have their passports. They're being processed.
And if look closely, you'll see these people in high vis jackets. They are volunteers. They are here because they want to make sure that everybody is greeted with a warm smile, that they can answer their questions if they need help.
We're going to swing around a little bit here just to show you what is the reception point. So right there they have some candy bars for the children. You can begin to ask questions. Get information if you need some help.
And I'm going to swing a bit over here as well because there's this group of guys here, this group of men here, who have come all the way from Germany. They have vehicles with them. And they are ready to offer refugees a ride to Munich, to Berlin. If that's what you want. And we often see this happen. People just showing up with signs, destination Vienna, destination Munich. Whatever they can do so they can offer people a ride.
Again, many of them come with no plan. Just with the things they can carry. They're relying on the kindness of strangers.
And I want you to take a look at this scene, this train station, because it's really quite beautiful. It's a 19th century train station. You can see that beautiful crown molding, the gold trim. And it's so extraordinary to see it now used as a halfway point for these refugees.
One final bit really I want to show you guys here if you'll follow me along. I know it's busy and it's crowded. And you have to understand this is actually kind of calm because it's a snowy, calm Sunday. It gets a lot more busy.
If you come down this way this is essentially what's become a waiting area. Again, people don't know what they're going to do. So they sit in this hallway and they start working the phones. They start calling friends. They check on social media to see if anybody is offering a room, is offering a bed. They ask for help.
And a lot of what surprises you is just how many children you see and they come with one toy. Their favorite teddy bear. That's all they have and they sometimes have to spend the night here. So they have a little play room for them over there.
A first aid station if you need to get some help. And just outside there's a tent with warm food. So it's a truly extraordinary effort you're looking at here to try to help people with no plan, no idea what they're going to do next and their journey, it's not over yet.
JARRETT: Truly a logistical feat there. And as you say, relying on the kindness of strangers. Salma, thank you -- thank you for being there for us.
And if you are looking for organizations vetted by CNN that are aiding people in need, please, go to CNN.com/impact. You will find several ways you can help. We'll be right back.
JARRETT: Southwest Airlines says technology is partially to blame for massive flight disruptions across the country yesterday. More than half of the company's flights were either cancelled or delayed Saturday impacting nearly 2,000 U.S. flights. And it wasn't just Southwest having issues this weekend, JetBlue, Spirit Airlines and Alaska Air also had disruptions according to Flight Aware.
SANCHEZ: Housing experts are concern about the potential for a new housing bubble as home prices are spiking. The national average home price up 19.2 percent from January 2021 to December -- rather January 2022. It gets even more dramatic in certain markets. A national index of 20 cities shows prices in Phoenix jumping 32.6 percent, in Tampa they jumped 30.8 percent, Miami, 28.1 percent over the previous year.
As you might expect, mortgage rates are also going up. According to Freddie Mac, the 30-year fixed rate mortgage averaged 4.67 in the week ending March 31st. That's up from 4.42 percent the week before. That combined with inflation and the instabilities in oil markets caused by Russia's invasion of Ukraine has led some to have anxiety over what comes next.
George Ratiu joins us this morning to discuss. He's a senior economist and manager of economic research with Realtor.com. George, appreciate having your expertise with us.
Do you have any indications? Are you seeing any indications that prices are going to settle down or decrease? Do you share the concern over this being a bubble that's soon going to burst?
[06:30:01] GEORGE RATIU, REALTOR.COM, SENIOR ECONOMIST AND MANAGER OF ECONOMIC RESEARCH: Boris, we have seen markets through this pandemic respond in highly unusual ways, with a lot of Americans looking, obviously, for safety, looking for a new place in the -- in the age of remote work.
However, all those things are shifting. As you pointed out, prices have reached new record highs. And we're seeing mortgage rates really begin to tamp down on demand. There's now Realtor.com data. We've been tracking this on a weekly basis since the pandemic started. March was the first month where we're actually seeing demand soften as a result of this combination of high financing costs, high prices, and importantly, inflation.
American families are paying more for everything, which is really putting a strain on their budget. So, for a lot of first-time buyers, this market is really beginning to stress them out. As a result, what we're seeing, however, is the markets are reacting. Roughly a dozen cities across the country, mostly the Midwest and parts of the former Rust Belt have actually seen for about five months, a decline in prices, which for me is actually good news because it signifies we're finally moving towards a more normal market.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, it certainly is a seller's market, right? There are places where homes have gone for $50,000 over asking price. So, what advice would you have for someone looking to buy in this era?
RATIU: So, the important thing to remember for buyers where you get some, you know, echoes of 2004, 2006 where people are afraid, they'll never get their foot into a home, get a foot into housing, build that wealth, is to remember to pay attention to your finances. Pay attention to your circumstances and time horizon. If you plan to be in a city for the next five years or so, this is not a bad time, even when rates rising. They remain historically low, not a bad time to lock in a fixed mortgage payment.
On the other hand, if you expect your job to move, if you expect to change series, it might be better to actually wait this out. We're expecting higher rates to actually change as the Fed tightens monetary policy change the demand side of housing in the months ahead.
SANCHEZ: One of the major challenges for growing cities is that many of the workers who are vital to the service industry and commerce and infrastructure are being priced out. I know that's the case in one of the cities we mentioned in Miami in my hometown. How critical is it for local governments to try to balance the soaring prices with affordable housing?
RATIU: I think, Boris, that is the critical component in today's housing markets. As we know, generally, local municipalities make the majority of decisions when it comes to zoning, development, plans for the future. And what we've seen, it's been over a decade and a half of under construction. In Fact, by Realtor.com calculations, we started this year with about 5.8 million single family homes short. So, for municipalities, this is a big task ahead. To your point, trying to tame down high prices, high rents, which are
also rising, putting a lot of pressure on families with the need for sustainable development. I think that a lot of opportunities here both on the public sector, as well as the private sector to leverage technology and smart planning in a way to reduce costs of construction and green homes to market at much more approachable prices.
SANCHEZ: I very much appreciate your analysis. George Ratiu, thanks for joining us.
LAURA JARRETT, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up, the Senate will take up the nomination of Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson to the U.S. Supreme Court this week. How will it all play out and when we expect the final vote?
SANCHEZ: There's a key vote scheduled for tomorrow on Judge Katanji Brown Jackson's nomination to the U.S. Supreme Court.
JARRETT: CNN's Daniella Diaz joins us now. Daniella, good morning. Democrats certainly have the votes to confirm Judge Jackson, but this could still be an ugly sausage-making process in Washington. Walk us through it.
DANIELLA DIAZ, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Laura, that's exactly right. If it's Capitol Hill, it's always going to be an ugly sausage- making process. Tomorrow the Senate Judiciary Committee is going to meet at 10:00 a.m. where they plan to vote Katanji Brown Jackson out of committee so that there could be a full vote on the Senate floor.
However, it is expected to be a tie breaking vote. Of course, the 11 Democrats are supporting her nomination. 11 Republicans on this committee are against her nomination. And they will have time tomorrow to speak in favor or against of Katanji Brown Jackson, and that could go on for hours. But they will have that vote likely tomorrow in the evening. And then the Senate will vote to discharge her out of committee which is -- which is also expected to happen this week.
But then the next couple of days this week will be a lot of procedural votes to advance her nomination. There's not just one clear vote to confirm her to the Supreme Court. It's going to take a couple of votes. So, this process could play out until Monday night -- excuse me Friday evening or Friday afternoon. That is when we expect for the final vote to happen to confirm Katanji Brown Jackson to serve as the first black woman on the Supreme Court.
So, it'll take a couple of days. But we do expect it to happen because all 50 Democratic senators plan to support her nomination. And we have -- we know of one Republican, Senator Susan Collins of Maine, who also is supporting her nomination and will confirm her to the Supreme Court. So, it's going to take a couple of days. And meanwhile, Laura and Boris, there also are other bills that the
Senate is trying to work on and pass including COVID aid funding, a Russian trade bill that they have to do simultaneously while working on this nomination.
And if we know one thing about here on Capitol Hill, it's that nothing really happens very smoothly between Democrats and Republicans. So, it's likely that the Senate will go to recess on April 11 for two weeks without these bills passing. But of course, Democratic leaders are hoping they can work on this and pass these bills before then. Laura, Boris?
JARRETT: All right, we'll see. Daniella, thank you.
SANCHEZ: Thanks, Daniella.
Ahead, a major step for Amazon employees. For the first time ever, workers at one of its warehouses have voted for a union. Is this a sign of a broader movement? An important discussion next.
JARRETT: Welcome back. It is a stunning victory for the labor movement. Workers at an Amazon warehouse in Staten Island have voted to unionize. This marks the first U.S. union in the tech giant's 27- year history. And the outcome was hailed by advocacy groups, even the White House. Press Secretary Jen Psaki told reporters Friday that President Biden was "glad to see workers ensure that their voices were heard."
Here with me now to discuss further is Rebecca Givan. She is an associate professor of Labor Studies at Rutgers University. Professor, it's so nice to have you this morning. You call this a classic David and Goliath story. Amazon is the second-largest private employer in the country. Talk to us about the significance of this win.
REBECCA GIVAN, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF LABOR STUDIES, RUTGERS UNIVERSITY: It's a huge win for these workers. Companies like Amazon put almost unlimited resources into fighting off any attempt by workers to organize. And the current situation with U.S. labor law makes it really, really difficult for workers to win. And these workers not only won in the face of a really, really strong anti-union campaign, but they did it with a brand new independent union, they had formed themselves.
JARRETT: Professor, how does this fit into the broader story that we see about sort of the leverage that workers have in this tight labor environment?
GIVAN: Yes. Workers have a lot of leverage right now. When they're not happy with what their employers doing, they can either leave and get a new job or they can stay and try to improve their workplace. And right now, the fact that they can always walk out and get a new job means that the risks of staying and fighting and standing up for themselves are less.
If they get fired for union activity, they're able to go and get another job. And so the calculation has changed a bit.
JARRETT: Yes, it's interesting. The vote was overwhelming, in this case, to vote in favor of the Union. Amazon, though, has released a statement saying in part here, we're disappointed with the outcome of the election in Staten Island because we believe having a direct relationship with the company is best for our employees, and that they're exploring their options to fight the ruling.
Their larger point is that look, we have great benefits, we treat our employees well. The company is also saying that they witnessed inappropriate undue influence by the national relations -- National Labor Relations Board here. Do you think that argument holds any water?
GIVAN: It seems pretty dubious. Amazon sounding a bit desperate, frankly. The argument they're making seems to be that the National Labor Relations Board shouldn't be doing its legal purpose, which is to enable workers to choose to unionize if they want to. Amazon is deeply concerned. They're casting this union as some kind of third party or outsiders when it was formed by workers at that warehouse in Staten Island.
JARRETT. Right, right. And we've seen them. And they had barbecues and they had TikTok videos and it worked for them. But you say, I know that this is not the end of the fight because Amazon isn't going to back down. They're not going to go quietly into the night. They're going to try to break up these workers.
GIVAN: That's right. Amazon will continue to fight unionization campaigns in other workplaces. There's no doubt. And they'll also absolutely battle at the bargaining table to try to make sure these workers don't get a first contract. They will -- they'll do everything they can to make sure that the union can't actually show any significant gains.
And these workers will have a big fight on their hands. They may be -- they may face further firings, there may be an attempt to separate them so they can't work together as easily. There's a whole playbook that Amazon will continue to draw from.
JARRETT: You know, the situation in New York seems to be unique because in Alabama, we're seeing a similar situation at another Amazon facility that's attempting to unionize. But that vote ended in a do over that was too close to call. And it's now being reviewed by the National Labor Relations Board. Why was there such a different outcome there?
GIVAN: It's hard -- it's hard to tell exactly everything that went into that. But we know that in Alabama, for example, those workers don't have the same experience with unions. In New York, many of these workers had second and third jobs that might be unionized. They have household or close family members, but have experienced being in unions where they've been unionized before. So, they can really see what's true and what's not when Amazon starts to tell them that unions are bad.
And in Alabama, the unionization rate is so much lower that many of those workers don't have much experience with unions. So, they haven't -- they haven't seen what unions actually do and what may or may not be true when Amazon gives it side of the story.
JARRETT: It's a super interesting situation. It is -- will be fascinating to see how it plays out and whether there's a ripple effect in other cities and states for Amazon workers. Professor Givan, thank you so much for your time this morning.
GIVAN: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: The final for playing out in dramatic fashion last night. We know who's playing in the championship game tomorrow night. We'll get a preview from New Orleans. Stay with CNN. We'll talk in a few minutes.
JARRETT: All right, it is one of the biggest rivalries in all of college sports. But legendary Duke basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, Coach K, will not get the chance to go out on top.
SANCHEZ: Let's take you to New Orleans now and our own Andy Scholes. He saw this instinct classic against North Carolina. Andy, the biggest rivalry in college basketball, as Laura said. These two teams have played a combined 330-something tournament games. They've never played against each other in the tournament. And when they do, it's Coach K's final game.
ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Yes, I mean, what a script, right, Boris and Laura? You couldn't have written it any better. And the game lived up to all of the hype in it. You know in terms of that rivalry, North Carolina certainly has the upper hand right now. They beat Coach K and Duke in his final home game. Then when they meet in the tournament for the very first time it was North Carolina coming out on top again, ending Coach K's career.
But like I said a second ago, this game incredible, lived up to all the hype. Duke was trying to keep Coach K's career going all the way to the national title game. Duke trying to get there for their legendary head coach. After 42 years, he's walking away after this run. This game came down to the final minutes. The team's just trading haymakers.
Trevor Keels giving Duke the lead with that three. Brady Manek though comes right back with a three for North Carolina. Then, it was Wendell Moore Jr.'s turn. North Carolina though had a one-point lead with under a minute to go when Caleb Love hits the shot of the game. This three-pointer here put them up by four. They would hold on to win 81- 77. And Coach K's legendary career coming to an end at the hands of the Tar Heels.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE KRZYZEWSKI, HEAD COACH, DUKE UNIVERSITY: As a coach, I'm just concerned about these guys. I mean, I see, you know, they're already crying on the court. And I mean, that's the only thing you can think about. And then going into the locker room, you know, I've set my entire career or when I knew what the hell I was doing that I wanted my seasons to end where my team was either crying tears of joy or tears of sorrow. Because then you knew that they gave everything and I had a locker room filled with guys who are crying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHOLES: So, Coach K doesn't get the fairytale ending here in New Orleans, but he leaves the most accomplished men's basketball coach in history. Most career wins, most tournament wins, 13 Final Fours to go along with five national championships.
Well, meanwhile, check out the scene back on North Carolina's campus. Fans rushing the court at the Dean Dome, then flooding the streets in Chapel Hill. Hubert Davis in his very first year as the head coach leading his alma mater back to the championship game.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HUBERT DAVIS, HEAD COACH, NORTH CAROLINA TAR HEELS: All I'm thinking about are these kids, these players. And I told them that how happy I am that I get a front-row seat just to be able to -- for them to go through the season and go through these experiences. It's a blessing for me. It's a privilege. It's an honor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHOLES: All right, so North Carolina will take on Kansas for the National Championships. The Jayhawks jumped out to an early lead, lead wire to wire beating Villanova 81-65. Kansas trying to win their first title since 2008. So, we got Kansas, North Carolina tip off at 9:20 Eastern on our sister network TBS tomorrow night.
And I tell you what, guys, last night's game between North Carolina and Duke, it was so tense, there's just some nothing that beats the emotion of the Final Four in March Madness. You know, we got a late one coming your way tomorrow night. I always say, you couldn't mix in a nap on championship Monday if you want to stay upbeat to catch the end.
JARRETT: I'm always -- I'm always pro-nap. On this schedule, you need naps.
SANCHEZ: 100 percent. I concur with that, Laura. Andy, I got to ask you, how's that bracket looking? Did St. Peters set it on fire? SCHOLES: You know, the brackets at this point, Boris, are just out the window. You know, a lot of us had Gonzaga and Kentucky in the Final Four, myself included. But I'm happy for all those people who had Kansas winning it all. Because if you were an outlier this year and you went with Kansas, you got a big smile on your face this morning.
SANCHEZ: It worked out all right. And congrats to Coach K obviously on an illustrious career, even though it didn't really end the way that he wanted. Andy Scholes from New Orleans, enjoy the game tomorrow night. Thanks so much.
JARRETT: Thanks, Andy.
SCHOLES: All right, thanks, guys.
SANCHEZ: Of course.
And don't go anywhere because the next hour of NEW DAY starts right now.
Buenos dias! Good morning, and welcome to your NEW DAY.