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Karen Hughes Nominated as Undersecretary of State for Public Diplomacy; Fugitive Behind Bars; Protest in Beirut
Aired March 14, 2005 - 11:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. To our viewers, thanks very much for joining us.
Unfolding this hour on NEWS FROM CNN, originally charged with rape, Brian Nichols is now accused of a killing spree and faces other charges tied to his escape. We're awaiting his return to court in Atlanta.
And she says Nichols made her his captive and then his angel. We'll hear directly from Ashley Smith about her terrifying ordeal.
Also, the politics of the street in Beirut. Hundreds of thousands of anti-Syrian protesters clogging the Lebanese capital a day after thousands of others rallied in support of Syria and its Lebanese allies. We're live from Beirut on that story.
We'll get to all of that. First, some other headlines "Now in the News."
Michael Jackson arrives on time in court. His teenage accuser was set to return to the witness stand to face more questions from Jackson's attorney about the boy's allegations of sexual molestation. No pajamas today.
The man accused of plotting with al Qaeda to kill President Bush has pleaded not guilty. Ahmed Abu Ali appeared in federal court in Alexandria, Virginia, this morning. He's charged with conspiracy in providing material support to al Qaeda. He was arrested in Saudi Arabia in June 2003 and was brought to the U.S. in February.
Condoleezza Rice about to make an important announcement over at the State Department involving Karen Hughes, the president's top adviser.
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, U.S. SECY. OF STATE: Good afternoon.
In the last century, our nation advanced its principles, we debated our policies, and we welcomed dialogue. We did so on every continent, and we did so with people of diverse cultures, creeds, races and religions.
We spoke openly and candidly and truthfully, and we were faithful to the tradition that open debate is the only antidote to closed minds.
As a result, we achieved much success in the last century. But the challenges of today are much different than the challenges of yesterday, and when it comes to our public diplomacy, we simply must do better.
Indeed, one key conclusion reached by the 9/11 Commission was that our nation must improve how we engage with the rest of the world.
President Bush has outlined the charge of our times: We on the right side of freedom's divide have an obligation to help those unlucky enough to have been born on the wrong side of that divide.
To meet this charge, our nation must engage in a much stronger dialogue with the world.
Sadly, too few in the world today know about the goodness and compassion and generosity of the American people.
Too few know of our belief that every man and woman and child has value, and that every voice has value.
Too few know of our deep respect for the history and traditions of others, and our respect for the religions of all.
Too few know of the protections that we provide for freedom of conscience and freedom of speech.
And too few know of the value we place on international institutions and the rule of law.
Too few know, too, that American lives have been lost so that others, including Muslims, might live in freedom, and that others might have a future of their own making.
RICE: The time has come to look anew at our institutions of public diplomacy.
We must do much more to confront hateful propaganda, dispel dangerous myths and get out the truth.
We must increase our exchanges with the rest of the world.
We must work closer than ever with educational institutions, the private sector and nongovernmental organizations.
And we must encourage our citizens to engage the world, to learn foreign languages, to understand different cultures and to welcome others into their homes.
And to be successful we must listen.
An important part of telling America's story is learning the stories of others.
Our interaction with the rest of the world must not be a monologue, it must be a conversation. And as we engage in this conversation, America must remain open to visitors and workers and students from around the world.
While we must never compromise our security, we must never close ourselves to the rest of the world.
We need to look at the international community today and see the importance of openness.
Over and over in diplomatic meetings I find myself at the table with leaders who were educated in an American university or an American college.
Hundreds of current or former heads of state, Cabinet-level ministers, and many other distinguished world leaders from government and business, and education in the arts and sciences, have participated in our international visitor programs.
This is key to America's future, that our openness to the world is one of our strongest assets.
RICE: I've said that the time for diplomacy is now. Well, the time for public diplomacy reform is also now.
Today I am pleased to announce that President Bush intends to nominate Karen P. Hughes as the State Department's new undersecretary for public diplomacy. Karen will have the rank of ambassador. And if confirmed, she will undertake a broad review and restructuring of our public diplomacy efforts.
I can think of no individual more suited for this task of telling America's story to the world, of nurturing America's dialogue with the world and advancing universal values for the world than Karen Hughes.
BLITZER: And so there it is, the official announcement from the secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice. The president's longtime adviser, Karen Hughes, being nominated to become undersecretary of state for public diplomacy, a position designed to promote U.S. -- the U.S. image around the world, specifically in the Arab and Muslim world. A full-court press to try to tell a more positive story of the United States.
Karen Hughes being brought back from Texas, will be coming back to Washington. If confirmed by the U.S. Senate, she'll get this job as undersecretary of state for public diplomacy. We'll continue to watch this story.
We're also watching other news, including the expected return to court of the man who preempted his last scheduled appearance by stealing -- allegedly stealing a deputy's gun, then launching a reign of mayhem that held Atlanta hostage. The suspect, Brian Nichols, he may appear today in federal court. The story's emerging hero, a single mother who managed to win the trust of an extremely dangerous man.
With the latest on this story that exploded last Friday, CNN's Gary Tuchman. He's joining us from outside the federal penitentiary in Atlanta. I take it, Gary, that's where we believe the suspect is being held right now?
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we do. Behind the gates of this imposing prison we believe is one Brian Nichols, accused of a horrifying murder spree. Now, we should tell you that no formal charges have yet been filed.
The authorities say they want up to 30 days to do a full investigation. But they say they will file four murder charges against him.
The relief in this region was palpable on Saturday when he was arrested. And it appears that almost all of the credit has to go to a 26-year-old waitress who late last night had a most amazing story to tell us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN (voice-over): At 2:00 in the morning, 17 hours after Brian Nichols' rampage and escape, this woman was walking into her home when somebody pushed her from behind.
SMITH: I started to scream. And he put a gun to my side and said, "Don't scream. If you don't scream, I won't hurt you."
TUCHMAN: Ashley Smith was forced into her bathroom.
SMITH: He took his hat off and he said, "Now do you know who I am?" And I said, "Yeah, I know who you are. Please don't hurt me. Just please don't hurt me. I have a 5-year-old little girl."
TUCHMAN: The 26-year-old realized the man she had seen on the news all day who had terrorized an entire region could kill her at any time. She says Nichols tied her up with an extension cord and masking tape.
SMITH: I told him that I was supposed to see my little girl the next morning at 10:00. And I asked him if I could go see her. And he told me, "No."
My husband died four years ago. And I told him that if he hurt me, my little girl wouldn't have a mommy or a daddy and she was expecting to see me the next morning.
TUCHMAN: It was a turning point. Ashley Smith was untied. And later...
SMITH: He put the guns under the bed like, you know, I'm done, I'm not going mess around with you anymore.
TUCHMAN: She says Nichols announced he had to ditch his getaway vehicle. So she followed him in her car with a cell phone. But she didn't call police, fearing a bloodbath or his escape. She went back home with Nichols and made him breakfast.
SMITH: He was overwhelmed with, "Wow." He said, "Real butter? Pancakes?"
TUCHMAN: She asked him, "Why did you come to my house?"
SMITH: He said he thought that I was angel sent from god and that I was his sister and he was my brother in Christ. And that he was lost and god led him right to me.
TUCHMAN: After hours of talking, alleged quadruple murderer Brian Nichols told Ashley Smith it was OK to go see her child.
SMITH: And I had left my house at 9:30 and I got in the car and I immediately called 911 and told them that he was there. And she asked me where I was. I said, "I'm on my way to see my daughter."
TUCHMAN: The S.W.A.T. team showed up. Brian Nichols waved a white shirt, and he was arrested. Ashley Smith says it was god's destiny.
SMITH: The reason I met Brian Nichols was so that I could talk him out of hurting anybody else and get him to turn himself in.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN: Now, there's no definite time or date for Nichols' first appearance in court. It will be no earlier, though, than tomorrow.
Originally it was supposed to be in federal court. But a short time ago the feds decided to drop their weapons charge they filed against him. It was a weapons charge designed just to keep him in jail. They say they've dropped the charge because they want the state to have the first crack at the case.
And he's able to stay in jail because, as you'll recall, he was charged with rape. He was undergoing a rape trial last week when this all happened.
Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: So the assumption is that the state, the Georgia state attorneys, will have first opportunity to file legal charges against him even though a federal agent was killed in this particular case?
TUCHMAN: One of the issues regarding the federal agent, Wolf, the only way he can be charged with federal murder is if he was aware, Nichols, that this man was a federal agent before he committed the murder. Now, that's still to be determined.
Nevertheless, this weekend the feds and the state officials were together. And they said right then, no matter what charges are filed, they will give the state of Georgia the first crack at this case. And here in the state of Georgia, Wolf, they have the death penalty.
BLITZER: And so we assume he's going to stay, though, in that federal penitentiary. Is that such a secure facility? More secure than a state or county facility might be? Is that -- that the reason -- reason why we believe he's behind you in that federal prison?
TUCHMAN: That's why he's here right now. We don't know if he'll stay here once the state starts going with its case. But we can tell you, there's no more secure facility than this one. Al Capone once was at this facility.
BLITZER: All right. Well that's good to hear.
Gary Tuchman, we'll have you back this hour for more. Gary's been covering this story since the beginning, doing an excellent job. Gary, thank you very much.
Let's get some more background now on what's going on in this investigation. Chief Richard Pennington has been leading the investigation in many aspects of it.
What do we know new about the -- about the situation unfolding, specifically the arraignment or the charges that are about to be filed, chief?
CHIEF RICHARD PENNINGTON, ATLANTA POLICE: Well, one thing that we know is that our investigators have met with the district attorney and the federal authorities, and there's three warrants, murder warrants that have already been filed for this individual, Brian Nichols. And so the district attorney and the United States attorney here in Atlanta are meeting on working out the details and arrangements in terms of how he will be processed. And we think it looks as though he's going to be processed through our state system and charged under our state charges.
BLITZER: Even though he allegedly killed a federal agent, the Immigrations and Customs agent?
PENNINGTON: Yes, it looks that way. But it's something that the district attorney and the United States attorney will work out. But remember, he killed three people in the state of Georgia here in our community. And even though the Customs agent was killed, and he's a federal agent, I think he was charged initially under the federal statute.
And so they're going to work out those arrangements. But I think when they complete their meetings, I'm sure that he's going to be arraigned in our state court.
BLITZER: And will he stay in that federal penitentiary where we believe he's being held right now, or moved to a county or a state facility?
PENNINGTON: No, I think he's probably going to remain there because the security is tight. I don't think you're going to have any problems with him trying or attempting to leave that facility. So I think he's going to stay there until he's turned over to the local authorities of the Fulton County sheriff, where he will, of course, be processed and be ready for arraignment.
BLITZER: I know you've already begun the process, or at least you've ordered what you're calling an after-action review to learn some lessons, lessons learned from this I think -- let's get to a couple of lessons.
What about security in the courtroom? What have you learned so far about security in a courtroom in Atlanta?
PENNINGTON: Well, even though the court security is not under my purview, the court security is under the purview of the sheriff, Fulton County sheriff. But I've agreed to work with him, along with the district attorney and the United States attorney, to form a task force to look at how we can improve court security there.
I think it's important for us to make sure that we have safety in place, a mechanism where our citizens can go and not have to worry about becoming a victim of crime inside of the courthouse. And also making sure that criminals don't have access to weapons and being able to pull off what Brian Nichols did. And so we're going to work extremely hard in that category.
The second part of this scenario is that I'm in the process of looking at what we did right and what we did wrong. And primarily, one area that I'm really focused on is that automobile being parked, that Honda being parked in the garage.
I know that there was chaos that day, a lot of things were going on. But -- and information that we received that Brian Nichols actually drove out of that garage. But, you know, I think we made a mistake by not thoroughly covering that garage, and I want to find out why it occurred and why it happened, and so we don't make that mistake again.
BLITZER: We actually saw some surveillance videotape from that garage showing him driving away from the spot where he allegedly commandeered that car. But he apparently just drove it to another level of the garage and left it there for some sort of reason which we don't really understand at this point, unless you can update us on that.
PENNINGTON: Well, I think what happened is that you're right, we went back and looked at that video, too. And all the information that we received was that he did drive out of that garage. And that's why we didn't focus our attention looking for him in the garage, and also looking for that vehicle.
But what we found out is that he was able to take that car to another level and then exit the garage and then board a MARTA train. And then he headed up toward a plaza, a shopping center up around Phipps Plaza. So we do know that.
BLITZER: We also know that when he took over that green Honda from that reporter from the "Atlanta Journal-Constitution," before he commandeered the vehicle and slugged and beat up the reporter, he asked for directions to Lenox Road which is out in Buckhead, where eventually around the area where he wound up. Is there, do we know, a motivation why he was specifically looking to get to that area? PENNINGTON: No, we don't. That's really unclear at this time. And I know the reporter told us that, that he asked for directions to Lenox, but he's from here. So we don't know why he would have to ask for that unless he wanted to throw us off.
But that gentleman lived here. And everyone knows where the Lenox Mall area is, especially if you lived here any length of time. So we don't know why he posed that question to the -- to the victim.
But we do know that he did go up in that area. And for a long period of time, we could not track his activity from the time he arrived up in that area and up until about 10:30, where he assaulted a couple. We do know that. But we don't know what he did between 10:00 a.m. up until around 10:00 p.m.
We know that he was up in that area. And so that's what we're trying to kind of focus on now and trying to get information to find out exactly what he did between that time frame.
BLITZER: What about this woman who has emerged as the real hero of this apprehension? Do -- I wonder what goes through your mind when you think about the story that she has told. And it's a very dramatic story.
Somehow, she managed to win this guy's trust, and she could escape. He let her go, actually. And she made the heroic 911 call.
She apparently did all the right things, and a lot of our viewers would be interested, Chief, in your thoughts, what she did right, what maybe she did wrong that could have endangered her even more. She was in an extremely precarious situation.
PENNINGTON: Well, I would first of all say that she was very brave. And most of all, she was calm.
She was able to win his trust. She calmed him down. She was able to get information about what he had done during the day.
And then she also had a chance to convey her story about her husband and about some of her life problems. And so I think, after they having the dialogue, the two of them, he gained a sense of trust from her. He started to, I think, have a little bit more respect for her. And so he didn't end up hurting her, which she was very, very lucky. Especially when you look at he had already killed four people that day.
BLITZER: Actually, Smith, this woman, incredibly lucky, incredibly brave, and obviously very, very intelligent to be able to do what she did -- what she did. Give us a final thought, Chief, on where you go from here.
PENNINGTON: Well, where we go from here is that, of course, we have to make sure that the process goes forward with Brian Nichols, making sure that we go back and we investigate everything that he did from the time that he assaulted the judge and the people in the court, all the way up to his arrest up in Gwinnett County. Then we need to go back and assess court security at our courthouse.
And in addition to that, we're going to have an after-action report, where we will come together, the local law enforcement agencies, along with our state and federal agencies, and find out exactly what we did right and what areas that we did not do so well in, and make sure that we cannot have this same thing to occur in the future. So it's going to be a lot of work. But most of all, we're mostly interested in making sure that our court is safe.
BLITZER: Let's hope that it never happens again. The Atlanta Police chief, Richard Pennington. Thanks very much for joining us.
PENNINGTON: Thank you for having me.
BLITZER: Thank you.
And just a little over an hour ago, a Hearst carrying the body of the fourth Atlanta shooting victim left a Georgia funeral home for Salisbury, North Carolina. Immigration and Customs Agent David Wilhelm was shot and killed Friday evening while working on a home he was having built in Atlanta's Buckhead area.
Wilhem had worked for the U.S. government for 18 years. He was 40 years old.
A memorial service is being planned this week for Judge Rowland Barnes. Barnes was shot in his courtroom Friday, along with court reporter, the stenographer, Julie Brandau. Both Barnes and Brandau were working in conjunction with Brian Nichols' rape trial which started a week ago tomorrow. Fulton County Deputy Sheriff Hoyt Teasley was shot and killed outside the county courthouse as Nichols made his escape.
We'll have more on this story throughout the day, including later this hour. And tonight on "NEWSNIGHT," "26 Hours: Inside the Atlanta Manhunt." Aaron Brown has that, a special "NEWSNIGHT," 10:00 p.m. Eastern, 7:00 Pacific. The complete hour, "26 Hours: Inside the Atlanta Manhunt" on "NEWSNIGHT" tonight.
Another mass killing over the weekend has stunned members of a church congregation outside Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Police are trying to figure out why church member Terry Ratzmann opened fire during services on Saturday, then turned the gun on himself.
When the shooting stopped, eight people, including the shooter, were dead. It happened at a hotel where the Living Church of God met regularly. Investigators say Ratzmann was concerned he might lose his job and was disturbed also by a recent sermon at the church. But one church leader says he didn't see it coming.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES BRYCE, LIVING CHURCH OF GOD: To me he seemed like a very normal individual. He did ask a few questions that, you know, he wanted answered. But he didn't seem in any way, shape or form troubled. He just seemed to make sure that he got to ask his questions, and they seemed very important to him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Three people remain in the hospital. One of them in critical condition.
When we come back, more on the fallout from what happened in Atlanta over the weekend.
Also, Iraq's experiment in democracy taking a crucial step this week. It's newly-elected national assembly convenes for the first time. What does it mean for the future of the war-torn nation? And what do Iraqis hope to accomplish? Coming up, I'll speak with live with a leading Kurdish Iraqi official whose own father may soon become Iraq's next president.
And later, she tells of talking her way out of a harrowing hostage situation. We'll hear more from Ashley Smith and how she managed to get away from a murder suspect on the run.
You're watching NEWS FROM CNN, and we're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Turning now to what's being called people power in Lebanon. Exactly one month since the assassination of the former prime minister, Rafik Hariri, hundreds of thousands of protesters again filling the streets of Beirut, demanding the withdrawal of Syrian troops. Our Brent Sadler once again joining us live now from the Lebanese capital with a complete update on this extremely dramatic day.
Brent, fill in our viewers who may just be tuning in. What has happened where you are?
BRENT SADLER, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Wolf. Another remarkable, unprecedented day here in the Lebanese capital. A rally is now winding down. But for several hours in bright sunshine today, hundreds of thousands of opposition supporters, people who were against the continuing presence here of Syrian troops, massing in Martyrs Square, the resting place of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, to show how many numbers they could put on the streets less than a week after Hezbollah drew another mass crowd of about half a million.
Now, protest organizers today were hoping to set their sights on a one-million protest march. And they're claiming to have achieved that figure today. And it was absolutely packed around the Martyrs Square area.
This was a march not just demanding a withdrawal of Syrian troops, it was also demanding that the government here accept there should be an international-led investigation into the assassination exactly one month ago today of Mr. Hariri, and also demands on the Lebanese government that the heads of the intelligence services of Lebanon seen as an extension of Syria should be immediately dismissed. Now, at the same time as we've seen this unprecedented rally, opposition leaders are calling it an historic event.
The silent majority in Lebanon, now they are speaking with a clear voice. They want to see the government concede to opposition demands before the opposition offers its hand to join in any possible future government of national unity. So in the space of one week, two rival camps also claiming to have full religious support, Christians, Muslims and Jews, on the streets of Beirut, rival camps still locked in as bitter political contest here -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Brent Sadler reporting for us from Beirut, where things are getting very exciting. Brent, thank you very much.
Here's a quick check of the latest news from Iraq that's happening right now. Iraqi authorities are reporting the arrest of two prominent associates of Saddam Hussein and his late son, Qusay. They were captured last month in Tikrit and were thought to have helped finance the insurgency.
Meanwhile, in the northern city of Mosul, at least two Iraqi civilians are dead after a U.S. helicopter opened fire on a building earlier. The helicopter destroyed three vehicles thought to be carrying insurgents. In both incidents U.S. forces were reportedly responding to ground fire.
Also in Mosul, a cameraman for a Kurdish satellite television station was found shot dead.
Last-minute negotiations between Kurdish and Shiite leaders are taking place in Baghdad. They're trying to hammer out the shape of a coalition government before Iraq's newly-elected national assembly convenes on Wednesday.
Here to discuss the political wrangling is Qubad Talabani. He's the envoy to the United States for the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, the leading Kurdish party in Iraq. His father, Jalal Talabani, is a candidate for president, the legendary Kurdish leader.
Qubad, thanks very much for joining us. How does it look right now? Because there's mounting frustration, as you know, in Iraq. Six weeks after the election, there is still no new government.
QUBAD TALABANI, PATRIOTIC UNION OF KURDISTAN: That's true, Wolf. The delay in forming this new government just shows the complexity of Iraqi politics.
There is intense negotiations going on between the two -- the Kurdish bloc and the United Iraqi Alliance. The discussions are happening now as we speak. We hope that as the parliament convenes on March 16, on Wednesday, that we could have made headway in forming this new coalition government.
BLITZER: The Kurdish bloc has the second largest number of members of this new parliament. What is your biggest demand right now to forge, to create this new government, the one or two most important issues on the Kurdish agenda? TALABANI: We are interested in policy issues. We want to know what the policy of this new government will be before we sign on to any coalition. We -- issues such as religion and state. What is the difference between the concept of federalism?
BLITZER: You want a secular government?
TALABANI: Certainly. We are for secularism and for religious freedoms.
BLITZER: And does the Shiite party, led by Ibrahim al-Jaafari, do they want something different?
TALABANI: What they're saying is they have signed on (INAUDIBLE), that religion, Islam will be one source of the law, and this is a thing that we're pushing for right now. But they're obviously the United Iraqi Alliance, is not very united there. They have extremists with them, they have moderates with them, and it's not clear yet how specific they're going to be on this particular issue.
BLITZER: So is that the biggest stumbling block to a new government right now? The issue of religion, state religion? Is that the biggest issue?
TALABANI: This will be one of the issues. But there are other key issues than just federalism. What does this federalism look like? The issue of the status of Kirkuk, how will Kirkuk be resolved?
BLITZER: Kirkuk is an oil-rich city in the northern part of Iraq. What do you want, the Kurds?
TALABANI: We want justice in Kirkuk. Saddam ethnically cleansed Kirkuk. He forcibly evicted Kurds and Turkmans from the city of Kirkuk, and replaced them with Arabs. We need a legal and just process that gives citizens that have been forcibly evicted from their homes the right to return to them.
BLITZER: So you want them to come back. How many people are we talking about?
TALABANI: We're talking about hundreds and thousands of people.
BLITZER: And that means, and the Arabs who live there, the Iraqi Arabs, whether they're Shiites or Sunnis, they would be evicted?
TALABANI: They are victims of this policy, too. But there has to be a process that takes into consideration the claims we need to have these claims adjudicated, and then compensation has to be given to anyone that has to be relocated one way or another.
BLITZER: So what are the Iraqi Arabs say about this Kurdish demand? And Kurds are not Arabs, they're Kurds, so there's a split there.
TALABANI: Of course. And there is resistance to this issue, primarily because of oil. But the oil is not the issue for us. Human rights is the issue for us. Justice is the issue for us.
BLITZER: Because a lot of people are going to say what you really want, the Kurds, is an independent, effectively independent Kurdistan in the north.
TALABANI: A lot of people are saying that. But I think the actions of the Kurdish leadership and the participation in the international elections is an indication of our willingness to be a leading player in Iraq, and not just in Kurdistan.
BLITZER: It sounds to me, based on these two fundamental demands, that the Kurds are asking for, that we're still a long ways from having a new government in Iraq.
TALABANI: The details haven't been worked out yet. Up until now, we have been speaking in generalities. But we, the Kurdish bloc are now trying to get to the details. The Iraqi partners are still talking in vague terms, in generalities, but we need to move beyond the impasse and start hammering out specific details.
BLITZER: Assuming there is a new government, and we all assume eventually there will be a new government, your father Jalal Talibani, will he be the president of Iraq?
TALABANI: He is the leading candidate for the position. And he has received nominal support from the United Iraqi Alliance. So he is primed for the position at this point in time.
BLITZER: And is it assumed that Ibrahim al-Jaafari will be the prime minister, who is one of the leading Shiite Iraqis?
TALABANI: He is, again, the leading candidate for that position. But what's more important than positions are policies. What will the policies be?
BLITZER: Qubad Talibani, the representative of the Kurds here in Washington, appreciate it very much. Good luck to you.
TALABANI: Thank you. It's a pleasure.
BLITZER: Qubad Talibani, the son perhaps of the next president of Iraq, Jalal Talibani, the legendary Kurdish leader.
There have been charges in the diplomatic dance that's ongoing between the United States and Iran. But is it too little, too late in the Bush administration's quest to end Iran's nuclear ambitions?
Coming up, I'll speak live with one American who's just back from the Iranian capital, Tehran.
And later, now that he's in custody, how will police proceed in their long list of potential charges against Brian Nichols? I'll talk with a former U.S. attorney and a former agent from Georgia's Bureau of Investigation. All that still to come.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Welcome back. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Diplomatic efforts to address Iranian nuclear activities are heating up. After talks with European officials last week, the Bush administration is touting what it says is new unity on the issue. And Tehran announced over the weekend it would temporarily halt uranium enrichment.
Here to discuss the issue is political consultant Clifford Kupchan of the Eurasia Group, which is a private consulting firm here in Washington.
Cliff, thanks very much for joining us.
CLIFF KUPCHAN, DIR., EURASIA GROUP: Thank you.
BLITZER: You just went to Iran, what, for 11 days. Tell our viewers how that came about.
KUPCHAN: I was invited to a conference on Persian Gulf security. I spoke at that. And then they had a big conference on nuclear technology at which I spoke. Most of the Iranian leadership, really on an unprecedented level, showed up to attend that conference.
BLITZER: And what was their major point that they were trying to make to influential Americans like yourself?
KUPCHAN: Unfortunately, their major point was, thanks for coming, and by the way, we're going to build a fuel enrichment nuclear enrichment cycles. So it really was a very hard-line message they were sending.
BLITZER: Did they acknowledge effectively that they're building a bomb?
KUPCHAN: No, they denied they were building a bomb. They've never stated they're building a bomb. They deny they're building a bomb. They continue to deny they're building a bomb. It's just that once you have the nuclear fuel cycle, you can either build a reactor or you can build a bomb.
BLITZER: Here's the question that I have, they've been working on this for years, they're very intelligent, they've got good scientists over there. What's taking them so long?
KUPCHAN: They had to work with a concealed program, and they've gotten to the point right now, they progressed very rapidly, that most people think in one to three years, they could develop a nuclear fuel cycle, which would be a very dangerous development, in my view.
BLITZER: Do you believe they are definitely, without any doubt, working clandestinely to build a nuclear bomb?
KUPCHAN: We just don't know. I think that they learned a lot from Osirak, when the Israelis attacked the Iraqi reactor and took it out. BLITZER: In 1981.
KUPCHAN: In 1981, that's exactly right. So it would be not beyond the realm of believability that what they're doing now is working clandestinely, and that they probably hardened and protected whatever assets they do have.
BLITZER: But how good is the intelligence that the U.S. and the Europeans, others might have, the Israelis for that matter, that they're working in these underground facilities, deep underground, to avoid the kind of easy-strike capability that the Israelis launched against the Osirak reactor in Iraq. How good is the intelligence that the world has on what the Iranians may be up to?
KUPCHAN: The people that I know that know don't know. I think the bottom line is that they're certainly hardening -- while I was there, for example, there was a story that came out of a deep underground tunnel in Islam, where they have one of their uranium- conversion facilities, the UCF. Now they're certainly doing things; whether it was with military intent, or whether it's to protect their ability to produce civilian power, we just don't know.
BLITZER: How concerned are they, the Iranians, of what has been described as a precision strike by the U.S. designed to destroy their nuclear capabilities? Not a full-scale invasion designed to overthrow their regime, not a regime change along the lines of Saddam Hussein and Iraq, but a precision strike to simply go after whatever nuclear capabilities they might have?
KUPCHAN: My understanding is that the Iranian regime, as opposed to the Iranian people, the Iranian regime, is not terribly concerned. They think they can ride it out. And, in fact, they think that a surgical strike would strengthen them. And they're desperate for increased legitimacy. The Iranians, when attacked, as shown by the Iraq War, 1988, are very nationalistic people. The regime was counting on the people to support them if there is a strike.
BLITZER: One final question. This new U.S. strategy, working with the Europeans, the British, the French and the Germans to offer some carrots, some incentives to the Iranians to walk away from a nuclear program, is it going to work?
KUPCHAN: I think we're offering too little. We're offering World Trade Organization membership and spare parts for aircraft. We're asking the Iranians, in turn, to trade in their crown jewel, which is their nuclear program. I think we have to get more serious and offer much more serious incentive if we're going to have a chance, a chance, at stopping the Iranian nuclear program.
BLITZER: Cliff Kupchan, just back from Iran, now back in Washington. Thanks very much for joining us.
KUPCHAN: It's been my pleasure.
BLITZER: When we come back a young woman many consider a hero says the man at the center of the Atlanta shooting spree called her an angel from god. Ashley Smith says she was just trying to make sure no one else had to die. You'll hear more of her amazing story in her own words right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: More now on the Atlanta killing spree. As we await the suspect's scheduled court appearance, the astonishing story of how it all ended continues to unfold. A widowed single mother returns from a late-night cigarette run to find the alleged killer at her apartment. She says he forced her in at gunpoint. Now the dramatic story of 26- year-old Ashley Smith.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ASHLEY SMITH, FORMER CAPTIVE: He said, "I'm not going to hurt you, if you just do what I say." I said, "All right."
So he told me to get in the bathtub. So I got in the bathtub. And he said, "I really don't feel comfortable around here. I'm going to walk around your house for a few minutes just so I can get the feel of it." I said, "OK."
He said, "I don't want to hurt you. I don't want to hurt anybody else. So please don't do anything that's going to make me hurt you."
He said, "You know, somebody could have heard your scream already. And if they did, the police are on the way, and I'm going to have to hold you hostage, and I'm going to have to kill and probably myself and lots of other people. And I don't want that." And I said, "OK, I'll do what you say."
I went to my room, I asked him if I could read. He said, "What do you want to read?" I said, "Well, I have a book in my room," so I went and got it. I got our bible, and I got a book called "The Purpose-Driven Life."
I turned it to the chapter that I was on that day, which was chapter 33, and I started to read the first paragraph of it. After I read it, he said, "Stop. Will you read it again?" I said, "Yes, I'll read it again."
So I read it again to him. It mentioned something about what you thought your purpose in life was, what were you -- what talents were you given, what gifts were you given to use. And I asked him what he thought. And he said, "I think it's to talk to people and tell them about you." I basically just talked to him and tried to gain his trust.
I wanted to leave to go see my daughter. He asked me what I thought he should do. And I said, "I think you should turn yourself in." "If you don't turn yourself in," what I said, "if you don't turn yourself in, lots more people are going to get hurt, and you're probably going to die."
And he said, "I don't want that to happen." He said, "Can I stay here for a few days? I just -- I want to eat some real food and watch some TV and sleep and just do normal things that normal people do." So of course, I said, "Sure, you can stay here." I didn't want -- I wanted to gain his trust.
Most of my time was spent talking to this man about my life and experiences in my life, things that had happened to me. He needed hope for his life. He told me that he was already dead.
He said, "Look at me. Look at my eyes. I am already dead."
And I said, "You are not dead. You are standing right in front of me. If you want to die, you can. It's your choice."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Smith says Nichols allowed her to leave the apartment ostensibly to visit her daughter. Smith immediately telephoned 911 and Nichols surrendered without a struggle.
Joining us now from Atlanta, Charles Stone, formerly of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, and former U.S. attorney Kent Alexander. He's the current senior vice president and general counsel at Emory University in Atlanta.
Charles, I'll begin with you. What did you learn from this whole ordeal about security inside the courtroom?
CHARLES STONE, FMR. GBI AGENT: Well, Wolf, when you go back and look at the incident that happened on Friday, I think the first thing that's going to need to be addressed are the policies of the sheriff's department in transporting and escorting prisoners to and from the court. I think it's pretty obvious to everyone that there was a breakdown in security, especially when you consider that the court had made known to the sheriff's office that they believed the -- Mr. Nichols was a security problem.
BLITZER: Should these deputies, these sheriff's deputies, especially the smaller ones, who could easily be overpowered by big, strong kind of suspects, should they be armed inside those courtrooms?
STONE: I think someone would need to address that. There's different ways of being armed. As far as one inmate with one correctional officer or sheriff's deputies carrying a pistol, I don't think that's advisable. There are other techniques that can be utilized, including shock belts, other forms of restraint. And if you are going to have armed deputies in a situation like this, the deputy who is un-handcuffing and assisting in the changing of clothes, there needs to be at least two deputies, one that can stay some distance away from the deputy who is removing the handcuffs.
BLITZER: Kent Alexander, it looks like the state is going to have first crack legally, that is, in going after this suspect. Is that a wise decision in the -- given the fact that a federal agent has been killed?
KENT ALEXANDER, FMR. U.S. ATTORNEY: Sure, it's a wise decision. You've got four people who've been killed, three are basically part of the Fulton County Courtroom family. A judge, a court reporter, a deputy sheriff. I think it's a wise decision, A, because the evidence is so good on the first three murders. You've got eyewitnesses. B, you've got a situation where you've got state prosecutors who are used to trying murder cases day in, day out.
And if there has been a death-penalty eligible case in Atlanta this year, this is it. So I think the expertise lies with the state prosecutors here, and we've got a lot of support from federal government. So I'm sure there will be federal charges, too.
BLITZER: What kind of record does Georgia have in terms of death-penalty cases, between the time of the conviction until the time of execution in Georgia? How does it usually work?
ALEXANDER: Well, first you've got to be convicted, of course. If there's conviction here and there is a capital punishment, a death penalty, there would be years and years of appeals, just like everywhere -- just like Texas, Florida, Georgia, three of the states that have most of the death-penalty cases, a lot of the death-penalty cases in the country. So we're looking at a lot of years, unless Nichols just gave it up and said he didn't care, much like Timothy McVeigh.
BLITZER: Timothy McVeigh, that was a federal death penalty charge that the U.S. government, the federal government, lodged against him, and in the end, of course, he was executed. This particular case, for the federal government to go after him with a death-penalty suit, a charge, he would have to have known that the Immigration and Customs agent, David Wilhelm, was in fact, a federal agent.
ALEXANDER: Exactly, which is one of the reasons why it makes more sense to go with the state, because it's going to be awfully hard to prove what he knew and didn't know, unless he confesses to it. And he doesn't have to take the stand to testify. So, if he doesn't take the stand, that confession doesn't come in.
BLITZER: We heard from Chief Pennington, Charles Stone, that he's being held, the suspect in this case, Brian Nichols, in the federal penitentiary in Atlanta for security reasons. Can we assume that the state or local prison facilities would not necessarily be as secure as the federal penitentiary there is?
STONE: Wolf, I think as this thing plays out, you'll see him eventually transferred to a state or county facility, I think it's entirely appropriate for him to be held in a federal facility right now, since the normal course of events would have him being held in the Fulton County jail, which is, of course, where the victims worked. So I think it's appropriate to hold him in a federal facility until decisions can be reached on where to house him within an approved high-security jail.
BLITZER: The fact that he was captured, apprehended after 26 hours, Charles, was that mostly luck or was that brilliant law enforcement work? STONE: I think it was a lot of good fortune. I think it was excellent work on the part of the young lady who was taken hostage. She did everything right. I was a hostage negotiator for years, and she did everything right as far as defusing his anger, letting the adrenaline settle down, humanizing herself to him, and letting the situation work out as it did. She did an excellent job. When she got an opportune time, she called 911, and the situation had defused a great deal then. So I think that part of it was handled as best as it could be.
As far as how he was caught, I think good fortune played a role in it.
BLITZER: We only have a few seconds left -- one final question to you, Kent Alexander, if you take a look at the legal proceedings that are now under way, what's your worst nightmare scenario in terms of some legal misstep that could potentially set this guy free?
ALEXANDER: I don't think there is one. If you've got eyewitnesses, he's in jail already. I don't even think there's a worst misstep. But eventually this case won't be tried here in Fulton County; it will be tried somewhere else. But if there was ever a lock on a prosecution, this is it.
BLITZER: Kent Alexander, formerly U.S. attorney down in Georgia, thanks very much, Charles Stone, formerly with the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, thanks to both of you for joining us.
We'll continue our coverage of this story, the reactions, the fallout throughout the day here on CNN. Much more coming up at 5:00 p.m. Eastern on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
We'll take a quick break. More "NEWS FROM CNN" right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: I'll be back later today, every weekday, 5:00 p.m. Eastern for "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS." Ashley smith says she survived by befriending her captor. We'll take an in-depth look at other techniques police say should be used when people are faced with a violent situation. That's coming up, 5:00 p.m. Eastern, later today. Until then, thanks very much for watching the NEWS FROM CNN. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
"LIVE FROM" with Kyra Phillips and Carol Lin -- there they are -- they're standing by to pick up our coverage.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired March 14, 2005 - 11:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. To our viewers, thanks very much for joining us.
Unfolding this hour on NEWS FROM CNN, originally charged with rape, Brian Nichols is now accused of a killing spree and faces other charges tied to his escape. We're awaiting his return to court in Atlanta.
And she says Nichols made her his captive and then his angel. We'll hear directly from Ashley Smith about her terrifying ordeal.
Also, the politics of the street in Beirut. Hundreds of thousands of anti-Syrian protesters clogging the Lebanese capital a day after thousands of others rallied in support of Syria and its Lebanese allies. We're live from Beirut on that story.
We'll get to all of that. First, some other headlines "Now in the News."
Michael Jackson arrives on time in court. His teenage accuser was set to return to the witness stand to face more questions from Jackson's attorney about the boy's allegations of sexual molestation. No pajamas today.
The man accused of plotting with al Qaeda to kill President Bush has pleaded not guilty. Ahmed Abu Ali appeared in federal court in Alexandria, Virginia, this morning. He's charged with conspiracy in providing material support to al Qaeda. He was arrested in Saudi Arabia in June 2003 and was brought to the U.S. in February.
Condoleezza Rice about to make an important announcement over at the State Department involving Karen Hughes, the president's top adviser.
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, U.S. SECY. OF STATE: Good afternoon.
In the last century, our nation advanced its principles, we debated our policies, and we welcomed dialogue. We did so on every continent, and we did so with people of diverse cultures, creeds, races and religions.
We spoke openly and candidly and truthfully, and we were faithful to the tradition that open debate is the only antidote to closed minds.
As a result, we achieved much success in the last century. But the challenges of today are much different than the challenges of yesterday, and when it comes to our public diplomacy, we simply must do better.
Indeed, one key conclusion reached by the 9/11 Commission was that our nation must improve how we engage with the rest of the world.
President Bush has outlined the charge of our times: We on the right side of freedom's divide have an obligation to help those unlucky enough to have been born on the wrong side of that divide.
To meet this charge, our nation must engage in a much stronger dialogue with the world.
Sadly, too few in the world today know about the goodness and compassion and generosity of the American people.
Too few know of our belief that every man and woman and child has value, and that every voice has value.
Too few know of our deep respect for the history and traditions of others, and our respect for the religions of all.
Too few know of the protections that we provide for freedom of conscience and freedom of speech.
And too few know of the value we place on international institutions and the rule of law.
Too few know, too, that American lives have been lost so that others, including Muslims, might live in freedom, and that others might have a future of their own making.
RICE: The time has come to look anew at our institutions of public diplomacy.
We must do much more to confront hateful propaganda, dispel dangerous myths and get out the truth.
We must increase our exchanges with the rest of the world.
We must work closer than ever with educational institutions, the private sector and nongovernmental organizations.
And we must encourage our citizens to engage the world, to learn foreign languages, to understand different cultures and to welcome others into their homes.
And to be successful we must listen.
An important part of telling America's story is learning the stories of others.
Our interaction with the rest of the world must not be a monologue, it must be a conversation. And as we engage in this conversation, America must remain open to visitors and workers and students from around the world.
While we must never compromise our security, we must never close ourselves to the rest of the world.
We need to look at the international community today and see the importance of openness.
Over and over in diplomatic meetings I find myself at the table with leaders who were educated in an American university or an American college.
Hundreds of current or former heads of state, Cabinet-level ministers, and many other distinguished world leaders from government and business, and education in the arts and sciences, have participated in our international visitor programs.
This is key to America's future, that our openness to the world is one of our strongest assets.
RICE: I've said that the time for diplomacy is now. Well, the time for public diplomacy reform is also now.
Today I am pleased to announce that President Bush intends to nominate Karen P. Hughes as the State Department's new undersecretary for public diplomacy. Karen will have the rank of ambassador. And if confirmed, she will undertake a broad review and restructuring of our public diplomacy efforts.
I can think of no individual more suited for this task of telling America's story to the world, of nurturing America's dialogue with the world and advancing universal values for the world than Karen Hughes.
BLITZER: And so there it is, the official announcement from the secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice. The president's longtime adviser, Karen Hughes, being nominated to become undersecretary of state for public diplomacy, a position designed to promote U.S. -- the U.S. image around the world, specifically in the Arab and Muslim world. A full-court press to try to tell a more positive story of the United States.
Karen Hughes being brought back from Texas, will be coming back to Washington. If confirmed by the U.S. Senate, she'll get this job as undersecretary of state for public diplomacy. We'll continue to watch this story.
We're also watching other news, including the expected return to court of the man who preempted his last scheduled appearance by stealing -- allegedly stealing a deputy's gun, then launching a reign of mayhem that held Atlanta hostage. The suspect, Brian Nichols, he may appear today in federal court. The story's emerging hero, a single mother who managed to win the trust of an extremely dangerous man.
With the latest on this story that exploded last Friday, CNN's Gary Tuchman. He's joining us from outside the federal penitentiary in Atlanta. I take it, Gary, that's where we believe the suspect is being held right now?
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we do. Behind the gates of this imposing prison we believe is one Brian Nichols, accused of a horrifying murder spree. Now, we should tell you that no formal charges have yet been filed.
The authorities say they want up to 30 days to do a full investigation. But they say they will file four murder charges against him.
The relief in this region was palpable on Saturday when he was arrested. And it appears that almost all of the credit has to go to a 26-year-old waitress who late last night had a most amazing story to tell us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN (voice-over): At 2:00 in the morning, 17 hours after Brian Nichols' rampage and escape, this woman was walking into her home when somebody pushed her from behind.
SMITH: I started to scream. And he put a gun to my side and said, "Don't scream. If you don't scream, I won't hurt you."
TUCHMAN: Ashley Smith was forced into her bathroom.
SMITH: He took his hat off and he said, "Now do you know who I am?" And I said, "Yeah, I know who you are. Please don't hurt me. Just please don't hurt me. I have a 5-year-old little girl."
TUCHMAN: The 26-year-old realized the man she had seen on the news all day who had terrorized an entire region could kill her at any time. She says Nichols tied her up with an extension cord and masking tape.
SMITH: I told him that I was supposed to see my little girl the next morning at 10:00. And I asked him if I could go see her. And he told me, "No."
My husband died four years ago. And I told him that if he hurt me, my little girl wouldn't have a mommy or a daddy and she was expecting to see me the next morning.
TUCHMAN: It was a turning point. Ashley Smith was untied. And later...
SMITH: He put the guns under the bed like, you know, I'm done, I'm not going mess around with you anymore.
TUCHMAN: She says Nichols announced he had to ditch his getaway vehicle. So she followed him in her car with a cell phone. But she didn't call police, fearing a bloodbath or his escape. She went back home with Nichols and made him breakfast.
SMITH: He was overwhelmed with, "Wow." He said, "Real butter? Pancakes?"
TUCHMAN: She asked him, "Why did you come to my house?"
SMITH: He said he thought that I was angel sent from god and that I was his sister and he was my brother in Christ. And that he was lost and god led him right to me.
TUCHMAN: After hours of talking, alleged quadruple murderer Brian Nichols told Ashley Smith it was OK to go see her child.
SMITH: And I had left my house at 9:30 and I got in the car and I immediately called 911 and told them that he was there. And she asked me where I was. I said, "I'm on my way to see my daughter."
TUCHMAN: The S.W.A.T. team showed up. Brian Nichols waved a white shirt, and he was arrested. Ashley Smith says it was god's destiny.
SMITH: The reason I met Brian Nichols was so that I could talk him out of hurting anybody else and get him to turn himself in.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN: Now, there's no definite time or date for Nichols' first appearance in court. It will be no earlier, though, than tomorrow.
Originally it was supposed to be in federal court. But a short time ago the feds decided to drop their weapons charge they filed against him. It was a weapons charge designed just to keep him in jail. They say they've dropped the charge because they want the state to have the first crack at the case.
And he's able to stay in jail because, as you'll recall, he was charged with rape. He was undergoing a rape trial last week when this all happened.
Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: So the assumption is that the state, the Georgia state attorneys, will have first opportunity to file legal charges against him even though a federal agent was killed in this particular case?
TUCHMAN: One of the issues regarding the federal agent, Wolf, the only way he can be charged with federal murder is if he was aware, Nichols, that this man was a federal agent before he committed the murder. Now, that's still to be determined.
Nevertheless, this weekend the feds and the state officials were together. And they said right then, no matter what charges are filed, they will give the state of Georgia the first crack at this case. And here in the state of Georgia, Wolf, they have the death penalty.
BLITZER: And so we assume he's going to stay, though, in that federal penitentiary. Is that such a secure facility? More secure than a state or county facility might be? Is that -- that the reason -- reason why we believe he's behind you in that federal prison?
TUCHMAN: That's why he's here right now. We don't know if he'll stay here once the state starts going with its case. But we can tell you, there's no more secure facility than this one. Al Capone once was at this facility.
BLITZER: All right. Well that's good to hear.
Gary Tuchman, we'll have you back this hour for more. Gary's been covering this story since the beginning, doing an excellent job. Gary, thank you very much.
Let's get some more background now on what's going on in this investigation. Chief Richard Pennington has been leading the investigation in many aspects of it.
What do we know new about the -- about the situation unfolding, specifically the arraignment or the charges that are about to be filed, chief?
CHIEF RICHARD PENNINGTON, ATLANTA POLICE: Well, one thing that we know is that our investigators have met with the district attorney and the federal authorities, and there's three warrants, murder warrants that have already been filed for this individual, Brian Nichols. And so the district attorney and the United States attorney here in Atlanta are meeting on working out the details and arrangements in terms of how he will be processed. And we think it looks as though he's going to be processed through our state system and charged under our state charges.
BLITZER: Even though he allegedly killed a federal agent, the Immigrations and Customs agent?
PENNINGTON: Yes, it looks that way. But it's something that the district attorney and the United States attorney will work out. But remember, he killed three people in the state of Georgia here in our community. And even though the Customs agent was killed, and he's a federal agent, I think he was charged initially under the federal statute.
And so they're going to work out those arrangements. But I think when they complete their meetings, I'm sure that he's going to be arraigned in our state court.
BLITZER: And will he stay in that federal penitentiary where we believe he's being held right now, or moved to a county or a state facility?
PENNINGTON: No, I think he's probably going to remain there because the security is tight. I don't think you're going to have any problems with him trying or attempting to leave that facility. So I think he's going to stay there until he's turned over to the local authorities of the Fulton County sheriff, where he will, of course, be processed and be ready for arraignment.
BLITZER: I know you've already begun the process, or at least you've ordered what you're calling an after-action review to learn some lessons, lessons learned from this I think -- let's get to a couple of lessons.
What about security in the courtroom? What have you learned so far about security in a courtroom in Atlanta?
PENNINGTON: Well, even though the court security is not under my purview, the court security is under the purview of the sheriff, Fulton County sheriff. But I've agreed to work with him, along with the district attorney and the United States attorney, to form a task force to look at how we can improve court security there.
I think it's important for us to make sure that we have safety in place, a mechanism where our citizens can go and not have to worry about becoming a victim of crime inside of the courthouse. And also making sure that criminals don't have access to weapons and being able to pull off what Brian Nichols did. And so we're going to work extremely hard in that category.
The second part of this scenario is that I'm in the process of looking at what we did right and what we did wrong. And primarily, one area that I'm really focused on is that automobile being parked, that Honda being parked in the garage.
I know that there was chaos that day, a lot of things were going on. But -- and information that we received that Brian Nichols actually drove out of that garage. But, you know, I think we made a mistake by not thoroughly covering that garage, and I want to find out why it occurred and why it happened, and so we don't make that mistake again.
BLITZER: We actually saw some surveillance videotape from that garage showing him driving away from the spot where he allegedly commandeered that car. But he apparently just drove it to another level of the garage and left it there for some sort of reason which we don't really understand at this point, unless you can update us on that.
PENNINGTON: Well, I think what happened is that you're right, we went back and looked at that video, too. And all the information that we received was that he did drive out of that garage. And that's why we didn't focus our attention looking for him in the garage, and also looking for that vehicle.
But what we found out is that he was able to take that car to another level and then exit the garage and then board a MARTA train. And then he headed up toward a plaza, a shopping center up around Phipps Plaza. So we do know that.
BLITZER: We also know that when he took over that green Honda from that reporter from the "Atlanta Journal-Constitution," before he commandeered the vehicle and slugged and beat up the reporter, he asked for directions to Lenox Road which is out in Buckhead, where eventually around the area where he wound up. Is there, do we know, a motivation why he was specifically looking to get to that area? PENNINGTON: No, we don't. That's really unclear at this time. And I know the reporter told us that, that he asked for directions to Lenox, but he's from here. So we don't know why he would have to ask for that unless he wanted to throw us off.
But that gentleman lived here. And everyone knows where the Lenox Mall area is, especially if you lived here any length of time. So we don't know why he posed that question to the -- to the victim.
But we do know that he did go up in that area. And for a long period of time, we could not track his activity from the time he arrived up in that area and up until about 10:30, where he assaulted a couple. We do know that. But we don't know what he did between 10:00 a.m. up until around 10:00 p.m.
We know that he was up in that area. And so that's what we're trying to kind of focus on now and trying to get information to find out exactly what he did between that time frame.
BLITZER: What about this woman who has emerged as the real hero of this apprehension? Do -- I wonder what goes through your mind when you think about the story that she has told. And it's a very dramatic story.
Somehow, she managed to win this guy's trust, and she could escape. He let her go, actually. And she made the heroic 911 call.
She apparently did all the right things, and a lot of our viewers would be interested, Chief, in your thoughts, what she did right, what maybe she did wrong that could have endangered her even more. She was in an extremely precarious situation.
PENNINGTON: Well, I would first of all say that she was very brave. And most of all, she was calm.
She was able to win his trust. She calmed him down. She was able to get information about what he had done during the day.
And then she also had a chance to convey her story about her husband and about some of her life problems. And so I think, after they having the dialogue, the two of them, he gained a sense of trust from her. He started to, I think, have a little bit more respect for her. And so he didn't end up hurting her, which she was very, very lucky. Especially when you look at he had already killed four people that day.
BLITZER: Actually, Smith, this woman, incredibly lucky, incredibly brave, and obviously very, very intelligent to be able to do what she did -- what she did. Give us a final thought, Chief, on where you go from here.
PENNINGTON: Well, where we go from here is that, of course, we have to make sure that the process goes forward with Brian Nichols, making sure that we go back and we investigate everything that he did from the time that he assaulted the judge and the people in the court, all the way up to his arrest up in Gwinnett County. Then we need to go back and assess court security at our courthouse.
And in addition to that, we're going to have an after-action report, where we will come together, the local law enforcement agencies, along with our state and federal agencies, and find out exactly what we did right and what areas that we did not do so well in, and make sure that we cannot have this same thing to occur in the future. So it's going to be a lot of work. But most of all, we're mostly interested in making sure that our court is safe.
BLITZER: Let's hope that it never happens again. The Atlanta Police chief, Richard Pennington. Thanks very much for joining us.
PENNINGTON: Thank you for having me.
BLITZER: Thank you.
And just a little over an hour ago, a Hearst carrying the body of the fourth Atlanta shooting victim left a Georgia funeral home for Salisbury, North Carolina. Immigration and Customs Agent David Wilhelm was shot and killed Friday evening while working on a home he was having built in Atlanta's Buckhead area.
Wilhem had worked for the U.S. government for 18 years. He was 40 years old.
A memorial service is being planned this week for Judge Rowland Barnes. Barnes was shot in his courtroom Friday, along with court reporter, the stenographer, Julie Brandau. Both Barnes and Brandau were working in conjunction with Brian Nichols' rape trial which started a week ago tomorrow. Fulton County Deputy Sheriff Hoyt Teasley was shot and killed outside the county courthouse as Nichols made his escape.
We'll have more on this story throughout the day, including later this hour. And tonight on "NEWSNIGHT," "26 Hours: Inside the Atlanta Manhunt." Aaron Brown has that, a special "NEWSNIGHT," 10:00 p.m. Eastern, 7:00 Pacific. The complete hour, "26 Hours: Inside the Atlanta Manhunt" on "NEWSNIGHT" tonight.
Another mass killing over the weekend has stunned members of a church congregation outside Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Police are trying to figure out why church member Terry Ratzmann opened fire during services on Saturday, then turned the gun on himself.
When the shooting stopped, eight people, including the shooter, were dead. It happened at a hotel where the Living Church of God met regularly. Investigators say Ratzmann was concerned he might lose his job and was disturbed also by a recent sermon at the church. But one church leader says he didn't see it coming.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES BRYCE, LIVING CHURCH OF GOD: To me he seemed like a very normal individual. He did ask a few questions that, you know, he wanted answered. But he didn't seem in any way, shape or form troubled. He just seemed to make sure that he got to ask his questions, and they seemed very important to him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Three people remain in the hospital. One of them in critical condition.
When we come back, more on the fallout from what happened in Atlanta over the weekend.
Also, Iraq's experiment in democracy taking a crucial step this week. It's newly-elected national assembly convenes for the first time. What does it mean for the future of the war-torn nation? And what do Iraqis hope to accomplish? Coming up, I'll speak with live with a leading Kurdish Iraqi official whose own father may soon become Iraq's next president.
And later, she tells of talking her way out of a harrowing hostage situation. We'll hear more from Ashley Smith and how she managed to get away from a murder suspect on the run.
You're watching NEWS FROM CNN, and we're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Turning now to what's being called people power in Lebanon. Exactly one month since the assassination of the former prime minister, Rafik Hariri, hundreds of thousands of protesters again filling the streets of Beirut, demanding the withdrawal of Syrian troops. Our Brent Sadler once again joining us live now from the Lebanese capital with a complete update on this extremely dramatic day.
Brent, fill in our viewers who may just be tuning in. What has happened where you are?
BRENT SADLER, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Wolf. Another remarkable, unprecedented day here in the Lebanese capital. A rally is now winding down. But for several hours in bright sunshine today, hundreds of thousands of opposition supporters, people who were against the continuing presence here of Syrian troops, massing in Martyrs Square, the resting place of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, to show how many numbers they could put on the streets less than a week after Hezbollah drew another mass crowd of about half a million.
Now, protest organizers today were hoping to set their sights on a one-million protest march. And they're claiming to have achieved that figure today. And it was absolutely packed around the Martyrs Square area.
This was a march not just demanding a withdrawal of Syrian troops, it was also demanding that the government here accept there should be an international-led investigation into the assassination exactly one month ago today of Mr. Hariri, and also demands on the Lebanese government that the heads of the intelligence services of Lebanon seen as an extension of Syria should be immediately dismissed. Now, at the same time as we've seen this unprecedented rally, opposition leaders are calling it an historic event.
The silent majority in Lebanon, now they are speaking with a clear voice. They want to see the government concede to opposition demands before the opposition offers its hand to join in any possible future government of national unity. So in the space of one week, two rival camps also claiming to have full religious support, Christians, Muslims and Jews, on the streets of Beirut, rival camps still locked in as bitter political contest here -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Brent Sadler reporting for us from Beirut, where things are getting very exciting. Brent, thank you very much.
Here's a quick check of the latest news from Iraq that's happening right now. Iraqi authorities are reporting the arrest of two prominent associates of Saddam Hussein and his late son, Qusay. They were captured last month in Tikrit and were thought to have helped finance the insurgency.
Meanwhile, in the northern city of Mosul, at least two Iraqi civilians are dead after a U.S. helicopter opened fire on a building earlier. The helicopter destroyed three vehicles thought to be carrying insurgents. In both incidents U.S. forces were reportedly responding to ground fire.
Also in Mosul, a cameraman for a Kurdish satellite television station was found shot dead.
Last-minute negotiations between Kurdish and Shiite leaders are taking place in Baghdad. They're trying to hammer out the shape of a coalition government before Iraq's newly-elected national assembly convenes on Wednesday.
Here to discuss the political wrangling is Qubad Talabani. He's the envoy to the United States for the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, the leading Kurdish party in Iraq. His father, Jalal Talabani, is a candidate for president, the legendary Kurdish leader.
Qubad, thanks very much for joining us. How does it look right now? Because there's mounting frustration, as you know, in Iraq. Six weeks after the election, there is still no new government.
QUBAD TALABANI, PATRIOTIC UNION OF KURDISTAN: That's true, Wolf. The delay in forming this new government just shows the complexity of Iraqi politics.
There is intense negotiations going on between the two -- the Kurdish bloc and the United Iraqi Alliance. The discussions are happening now as we speak. We hope that as the parliament convenes on March 16, on Wednesday, that we could have made headway in forming this new coalition government.
BLITZER: The Kurdish bloc has the second largest number of members of this new parliament. What is your biggest demand right now to forge, to create this new government, the one or two most important issues on the Kurdish agenda? TALABANI: We are interested in policy issues. We want to know what the policy of this new government will be before we sign on to any coalition. We -- issues such as religion and state. What is the difference between the concept of federalism?
BLITZER: You want a secular government?
TALABANI: Certainly. We are for secularism and for religious freedoms.
BLITZER: And does the Shiite party, led by Ibrahim al-Jaafari, do they want something different?
TALABANI: What they're saying is they have signed on (INAUDIBLE), that religion, Islam will be one source of the law, and this is a thing that we're pushing for right now. But they're obviously the United Iraqi Alliance, is not very united there. They have extremists with them, they have moderates with them, and it's not clear yet how specific they're going to be on this particular issue.
BLITZER: So is that the biggest stumbling block to a new government right now? The issue of religion, state religion? Is that the biggest issue?
TALABANI: This will be one of the issues. But there are other key issues than just federalism. What does this federalism look like? The issue of the status of Kirkuk, how will Kirkuk be resolved?
BLITZER: Kirkuk is an oil-rich city in the northern part of Iraq. What do you want, the Kurds?
TALABANI: We want justice in Kirkuk. Saddam ethnically cleansed Kirkuk. He forcibly evicted Kurds and Turkmans from the city of Kirkuk, and replaced them with Arabs. We need a legal and just process that gives citizens that have been forcibly evicted from their homes the right to return to them.
BLITZER: So you want them to come back. How many people are we talking about?
TALABANI: We're talking about hundreds and thousands of people.
BLITZER: And that means, and the Arabs who live there, the Iraqi Arabs, whether they're Shiites or Sunnis, they would be evicted?
TALABANI: They are victims of this policy, too. But there has to be a process that takes into consideration the claims we need to have these claims adjudicated, and then compensation has to be given to anyone that has to be relocated one way or another.
BLITZER: So what are the Iraqi Arabs say about this Kurdish demand? And Kurds are not Arabs, they're Kurds, so there's a split there.
TALABANI: Of course. And there is resistance to this issue, primarily because of oil. But the oil is not the issue for us. Human rights is the issue for us. Justice is the issue for us.
BLITZER: Because a lot of people are going to say what you really want, the Kurds, is an independent, effectively independent Kurdistan in the north.
TALABANI: A lot of people are saying that. But I think the actions of the Kurdish leadership and the participation in the international elections is an indication of our willingness to be a leading player in Iraq, and not just in Kurdistan.
BLITZER: It sounds to me, based on these two fundamental demands, that the Kurds are asking for, that we're still a long ways from having a new government in Iraq.
TALABANI: The details haven't been worked out yet. Up until now, we have been speaking in generalities. But we, the Kurdish bloc are now trying to get to the details. The Iraqi partners are still talking in vague terms, in generalities, but we need to move beyond the impasse and start hammering out specific details.
BLITZER: Assuming there is a new government, and we all assume eventually there will be a new government, your father Jalal Talibani, will he be the president of Iraq?
TALABANI: He is the leading candidate for the position. And he has received nominal support from the United Iraqi Alliance. So he is primed for the position at this point in time.
BLITZER: And is it assumed that Ibrahim al-Jaafari will be the prime minister, who is one of the leading Shiite Iraqis?
TALABANI: He is, again, the leading candidate for that position. But what's more important than positions are policies. What will the policies be?
BLITZER: Qubad Talibani, the representative of the Kurds here in Washington, appreciate it very much. Good luck to you.
TALABANI: Thank you. It's a pleasure.
BLITZER: Qubad Talibani, the son perhaps of the next president of Iraq, Jalal Talibani, the legendary Kurdish leader.
There have been charges in the diplomatic dance that's ongoing between the United States and Iran. But is it too little, too late in the Bush administration's quest to end Iran's nuclear ambitions?
Coming up, I'll speak live with one American who's just back from the Iranian capital, Tehran.
And later, now that he's in custody, how will police proceed in their long list of potential charges against Brian Nichols? I'll talk with a former U.S. attorney and a former agent from Georgia's Bureau of Investigation. All that still to come.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Welcome back. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Diplomatic efforts to address Iranian nuclear activities are heating up. After talks with European officials last week, the Bush administration is touting what it says is new unity on the issue. And Tehran announced over the weekend it would temporarily halt uranium enrichment.
Here to discuss the issue is political consultant Clifford Kupchan of the Eurasia Group, which is a private consulting firm here in Washington.
Cliff, thanks very much for joining us.
CLIFF KUPCHAN, DIR., EURASIA GROUP: Thank you.
BLITZER: You just went to Iran, what, for 11 days. Tell our viewers how that came about.
KUPCHAN: I was invited to a conference on Persian Gulf security. I spoke at that. And then they had a big conference on nuclear technology at which I spoke. Most of the Iranian leadership, really on an unprecedented level, showed up to attend that conference.
BLITZER: And what was their major point that they were trying to make to influential Americans like yourself?
KUPCHAN: Unfortunately, their major point was, thanks for coming, and by the way, we're going to build a fuel enrichment nuclear enrichment cycles. So it really was a very hard-line message they were sending.
BLITZER: Did they acknowledge effectively that they're building a bomb?
KUPCHAN: No, they denied they were building a bomb. They've never stated they're building a bomb. They deny they're building a bomb. They continue to deny they're building a bomb. It's just that once you have the nuclear fuel cycle, you can either build a reactor or you can build a bomb.
BLITZER: Here's the question that I have, they've been working on this for years, they're very intelligent, they've got good scientists over there. What's taking them so long?
KUPCHAN: They had to work with a concealed program, and they've gotten to the point right now, they progressed very rapidly, that most people think in one to three years, they could develop a nuclear fuel cycle, which would be a very dangerous development, in my view.
BLITZER: Do you believe they are definitely, without any doubt, working clandestinely to build a nuclear bomb?
KUPCHAN: We just don't know. I think that they learned a lot from Osirak, when the Israelis attacked the Iraqi reactor and took it out. BLITZER: In 1981.
KUPCHAN: In 1981, that's exactly right. So it would be not beyond the realm of believability that what they're doing now is working clandestinely, and that they probably hardened and protected whatever assets they do have.
BLITZER: But how good is the intelligence that the U.S. and the Europeans, others might have, the Israelis for that matter, that they're working in these underground facilities, deep underground, to avoid the kind of easy-strike capability that the Israelis launched against the Osirak reactor in Iraq. How good is the intelligence that the world has on what the Iranians may be up to?
KUPCHAN: The people that I know that know don't know. I think the bottom line is that they're certainly hardening -- while I was there, for example, there was a story that came out of a deep underground tunnel in Islam, where they have one of their uranium- conversion facilities, the UCF. Now they're certainly doing things; whether it was with military intent, or whether it's to protect their ability to produce civilian power, we just don't know.
BLITZER: How concerned are they, the Iranians, of what has been described as a precision strike by the U.S. designed to destroy their nuclear capabilities? Not a full-scale invasion designed to overthrow their regime, not a regime change along the lines of Saddam Hussein and Iraq, but a precision strike to simply go after whatever nuclear capabilities they might have?
KUPCHAN: My understanding is that the Iranian regime, as opposed to the Iranian people, the Iranian regime, is not terribly concerned. They think they can ride it out. And, in fact, they think that a surgical strike would strengthen them. And they're desperate for increased legitimacy. The Iranians, when attacked, as shown by the Iraq War, 1988, are very nationalistic people. The regime was counting on the people to support them if there is a strike.
BLITZER: One final question. This new U.S. strategy, working with the Europeans, the British, the French and the Germans to offer some carrots, some incentives to the Iranians to walk away from a nuclear program, is it going to work?
KUPCHAN: I think we're offering too little. We're offering World Trade Organization membership and spare parts for aircraft. We're asking the Iranians, in turn, to trade in their crown jewel, which is their nuclear program. I think we have to get more serious and offer much more serious incentive if we're going to have a chance, a chance, at stopping the Iranian nuclear program.
BLITZER: Cliff Kupchan, just back from Iran, now back in Washington. Thanks very much for joining us.
KUPCHAN: It's been my pleasure.
BLITZER: When we come back a young woman many consider a hero says the man at the center of the Atlanta shooting spree called her an angel from god. Ashley Smith says she was just trying to make sure no one else had to die. You'll hear more of her amazing story in her own words right after this.
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BLITZER: More now on the Atlanta killing spree. As we await the suspect's scheduled court appearance, the astonishing story of how it all ended continues to unfold. A widowed single mother returns from a late-night cigarette run to find the alleged killer at her apartment. She says he forced her in at gunpoint. Now the dramatic story of 26- year-old Ashley Smith.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ASHLEY SMITH, FORMER CAPTIVE: He said, "I'm not going to hurt you, if you just do what I say." I said, "All right."
So he told me to get in the bathtub. So I got in the bathtub. And he said, "I really don't feel comfortable around here. I'm going to walk around your house for a few minutes just so I can get the feel of it." I said, "OK."
He said, "I don't want to hurt you. I don't want to hurt anybody else. So please don't do anything that's going to make me hurt you."
He said, "You know, somebody could have heard your scream already. And if they did, the police are on the way, and I'm going to have to hold you hostage, and I'm going to have to kill and probably myself and lots of other people. And I don't want that." And I said, "OK, I'll do what you say."
I went to my room, I asked him if I could read. He said, "What do you want to read?" I said, "Well, I have a book in my room," so I went and got it. I got our bible, and I got a book called "The Purpose-Driven Life."
I turned it to the chapter that I was on that day, which was chapter 33, and I started to read the first paragraph of it. After I read it, he said, "Stop. Will you read it again?" I said, "Yes, I'll read it again."
So I read it again to him. It mentioned something about what you thought your purpose in life was, what were you -- what talents were you given, what gifts were you given to use. And I asked him what he thought. And he said, "I think it's to talk to people and tell them about you." I basically just talked to him and tried to gain his trust.
I wanted to leave to go see my daughter. He asked me what I thought he should do. And I said, "I think you should turn yourself in." "If you don't turn yourself in," what I said, "if you don't turn yourself in, lots more people are going to get hurt, and you're probably going to die."
And he said, "I don't want that to happen." He said, "Can I stay here for a few days? I just -- I want to eat some real food and watch some TV and sleep and just do normal things that normal people do." So of course, I said, "Sure, you can stay here." I didn't want -- I wanted to gain his trust.
Most of my time was spent talking to this man about my life and experiences in my life, things that had happened to me. He needed hope for his life. He told me that he was already dead.
He said, "Look at me. Look at my eyes. I am already dead."
And I said, "You are not dead. You are standing right in front of me. If you want to die, you can. It's your choice."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Smith says Nichols allowed her to leave the apartment ostensibly to visit her daughter. Smith immediately telephoned 911 and Nichols surrendered without a struggle.
Joining us now from Atlanta, Charles Stone, formerly of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, and former U.S. attorney Kent Alexander. He's the current senior vice president and general counsel at Emory University in Atlanta.
Charles, I'll begin with you. What did you learn from this whole ordeal about security inside the courtroom?
CHARLES STONE, FMR. GBI AGENT: Well, Wolf, when you go back and look at the incident that happened on Friday, I think the first thing that's going to need to be addressed are the policies of the sheriff's department in transporting and escorting prisoners to and from the court. I think it's pretty obvious to everyone that there was a breakdown in security, especially when you consider that the court had made known to the sheriff's office that they believed the -- Mr. Nichols was a security problem.
BLITZER: Should these deputies, these sheriff's deputies, especially the smaller ones, who could easily be overpowered by big, strong kind of suspects, should they be armed inside those courtrooms?
STONE: I think someone would need to address that. There's different ways of being armed. As far as one inmate with one correctional officer or sheriff's deputies carrying a pistol, I don't think that's advisable. There are other techniques that can be utilized, including shock belts, other forms of restraint. And if you are going to have armed deputies in a situation like this, the deputy who is un-handcuffing and assisting in the changing of clothes, there needs to be at least two deputies, one that can stay some distance away from the deputy who is removing the handcuffs.
BLITZER: Kent Alexander, it looks like the state is going to have first crack legally, that is, in going after this suspect. Is that a wise decision in the -- given the fact that a federal agent has been killed?
KENT ALEXANDER, FMR. U.S. ATTORNEY: Sure, it's a wise decision. You've got four people who've been killed, three are basically part of the Fulton County Courtroom family. A judge, a court reporter, a deputy sheriff. I think it's a wise decision, A, because the evidence is so good on the first three murders. You've got eyewitnesses. B, you've got a situation where you've got state prosecutors who are used to trying murder cases day in, day out.
And if there has been a death-penalty eligible case in Atlanta this year, this is it. So I think the expertise lies with the state prosecutors here, and we've got a lot of support from federal government. So I'm sure there will be federal charges, too.
BLITZER: What kind of record does Georgia have in terms of death-penalty cases, between the time of the conviction until the time of execution in Georgia? How does it usually work?
ALEXANDER: Well, first you've got to be convicted, of course. If there's conviction here and there is a capital punishment, a death penalty, there would be years and years of appeals, just like everywhere -- just like Texas, Florida, Georgia, three of the states that have most of the death-penalty cases, a lot of the death-penalty cases in the country. So we're looking at a lot of years, unless Nichols just gave it up and said he didn't care, much like Timothy McVeigh.
BLITZER: Timothy McVeigh, that was a federal death penalty charge that the U.S. government, the federal government, lodged against him, and in the end, of course, he was executed. This particular case, for the federal government to go after him with a death-penalty suit, a charge, he would have to have known that the Immigration and Customs agent, David Wilhelm, was in fact, a federal agent.
ALEXANDER: Exactly, which is one of the reasons why it makes more sense to go with the state, because it's going to be awfully hard to prove what he knew and didn't know, unless he confesses to it. And he doesn't have to take the stand to testify. So, if he doesn't take the stand, that confession doesn't come in.
BLITZER: We heard from Chief Pennington, Charles Stone, that he's being held, the suspect in this case, Brian Nichols, in the federal penitentiary in Atlanta for security reasons. Can we assume that the state or local prison facilities would not necessarily be as secure as the federal penitentiary there is?
STONE: Wolf, I think as this thing plays out, you'll see him eventually transferred to a state or county facility, I think it's entirely appropriate for him to be held in a federal facility right now, since the normal course of events would have him being held in the Fulton County jail, which is, of course, where the victims worked. So I think it's appropriate to hold him in a federal facility until decisions can be reached on where to house him within an approved high-security jail.
BLITZER: The fact that he was captured, apprehended after 26 hours, Charles, was that mostly luck or was that brilliant law enforcement work? STONE: I think it was a lot of good fortune. I think it was excellent work on the part of the young lady who was taken hostage. She did everything right. I was a hostage negotiator for years, and she did everything right as far as defusing his anger, letting the adrenaline settle down, humanizing herself to him, and letting the situation work out as it did. She did an excellent job. When she got an opportune time, she called 911, and the situation had defused a great deal then. So I think that part of it was handled as best as it could be.
As far as how he was caught, I think good fortune played a role in it.
BLITZER: We only have a few seconds left -- one final question to you, Kent Alexander, if you take a look at the legal proceedings that are now under way, what's your worst nightmare scenario in terms of some legal misstep that could potentially set this guy free?
ALEXANDER: I don't think there is one. If you've got eyewitnesses, he's in jail already. I don't even think there's a worst misstep. But eventually this case won't be tried here in Fulton County; it will be tried somewhere else. But if there was ever a lock on a prosecution, this is it.
BLITZER: Kent Alexander, formerly U.S. attorney down in Georgia, thanks very much, Charles Stone, formerly with the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, thanks to both of you for joining us.
We'll continue our coverage of this story, the reactions, the fallout throughout the day here on CNN. Much more coming up at 5:00 p.m. Eastern on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
We'll take a quick break. More "NEWS FROM CNN" right after this.
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BLITZER: I'll be back later today, every weekday, 5:00 p.m. Eastern for "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS." Ashley smith says she survived by befriending her captor. We'll take an in-depth look at other techniques police say should be used when people are faced with a violent situation. That's coming up, 5:00 p.m. Eastern, later today. Until then, thanks very much for watching the NEWS FROM CNN. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
"LIVE FROM" with Kyra Phillips and Carol Lin -- there they are -- they're standing by to pick up our coverage.
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