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Congress Calls on Terri Schiavo to Testify; Future of Iraq

Aired March 18, 2005 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Thanks very much for joining us.
Unfolding this hour on NEWS FROM CNN, the U.S. Congress calls on Terri Schiavo to testify despite what the courts and her husband have described as her persistent vegetative state. It's the latest twist in the drive to keep her alive.

And nearly two years since the start of the war in Iraq, there's still no end to the violence, nor stopping the march toward democracy. We'll hear from three CNN correspondents who report from the region.

Also, reflections on a very different war. This one long past, yet echoing still today. Our senior international correspondent Brent Sadler reports from Beirut and recalls the day he almost died.

First, some other headlines happening right "Now in the News."

In Atlanta, the funeral service for the sheriff's deputy who lost his life in the courthouse shootings exactly one week ago. That would be last Friday. A massive show of respect for Sergeant Hoyt Teasley on a day when Atlanta's police chief again has conceded mistakes in the pursuit of multiple murder suspect Brian Nichols.

Now we won't get to see the civil wedding of Prince Charles and longtime companion Camilla Parker Bowles. But the prince's office says a separate religious ceremony will be televised live. The archbishop of Canterbury is to lead that ceremony at Windsor Castle, following a civil ceremony at Windsor Town Hall on April 8.

Among the most popular stories we're following this hour on CNN.com, two marriage proposals for Scott Peterson. Prison officials say two women called California's San Quentin Prison to say they want to marry the death row inmate.

And this story, Cuban President Fidel Castro is upset with "Forbes" magazine. He criticizes the magazine for listing him among the world's richest people. His reported net worth, according to the magazine, $550 million. You can read the details. Simply go to CNN.com.

First, the frenzied effort to keep Terri Schiavo alive. Though she hasn't spoken in years, the brain-damaged woman from Florida is now being called before the United States Congress to testify. By order of the courts, though, including the highest court in the land, the feeding tube that keeps her alive could be removed within one hour. Who has jurisdiction, the U.S. Congress or the courts? Among those watching this case, President Bush himself.

Following the story for us, our congressional correspondent Joe Johns is on Capitol Hill. In Clearwater, Florida, Carol Lin standing by. First let's go to Joe Johns with the latest congressional maneuverings.

What exactly is going on, Joe?

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this is still a fairly fast- moving story here on Capitol Hill. The House Government Reform Committee now reporting that it has issued five subpoenas for Michael Schiavo, Terri Schiavo and three health care officials to appear before the Congress on March 25. We are being told, however, they may be allowed to appear on remote television.

Efforts going on dual tracks here on Capitol Hill. On the Senate side, Senate attorneys just finished giving a briefing to reporters, giving their theories on this case, indicating that they have, of course, here before the health committee issued an invitation to Terri Schiavo and her husband to appear before the committee on March 28. They say that invitation extends certain legal protections to Terri Schiavo in the event anyone tries to remove the feeding tube. Now, we're also told in the event it is removed, the United States attorney could conceivably seek a temporary restraining order before a court to change things around.

Meanwhile, of course, the brother of Terri Schiavo, Bobby, on Capitol Hill yesterday and today, making the rounds, talking to senators and members of Congress. He told us a little while ago he would actually like to see Terri Schiavo appear before the committee in person.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOBBY SCHINDLER, BROTHER: Well, I think, you know, people would see that we're trying to starve to death a live human being. And I think if people saw -- you know, it takes me back to why they are trying to hard to conceal Terri and why they won't allow any videos of Terri and any pictures. Because they know when the public sees just how alive she is they are just astonished that we're trying to starve her to death.

So I think if we do, if we are able to bring her to Washington, it would just -- it would show everybody just how alive and alert and responsive Terri is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: Of course, there's no clear word on whether the health committee on the Senate side would actually want to see Terri Schiavo in person, even though they've extended an invitation to her. It's quite clear here on Capitol Hill that this is an attempt to keep the feeding tube from being removed. In fact, the House majority leader, Bill Frist, issued a statement earlier today indicating that there are certain penalties in this type of a situation. We have a graphic that I can read to you now. It says in part, "Federal criminal law protects witnesses called before official congressional committee proceedings from anyone who may obstruct or impede a witness attendance or testimony."

So that's the situation here on Capitol Hill. Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Joe, do we know if any of those documents, any of those subpoenas, have actually been served on anyone in Clearwater, the hospice, family members, the husband, anyone along those lines? Have the documents been faxed there? Have they been e-mailed there? Has anyone actually served any of those congressional subpoenas?

JOHNS: Wolf, frankly, that is a question I cannot give you at this team. A briefing was scheduled to start just about 20 minutes ago over on the House side where they talked about this. The information I was given is that the subpoenas have been issued. No word on whether they've been delivered or served.

BLITZER: All right. Joe Johns, stand by. We'll be getting back to you. Joe Johns with all the latest maneuvering on the Terri Schiavo case from Capitol Hill.

Carol Lin is standing by in Clearwater, Florida, outside, near the hospice.

Is that where you are, Carol?

CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I am, Wolf. This is where Terri Schiavo is being cared for. This is where the court order would go into effect at 1:00 Eastern, unless this subpoena from the U.S. House of Representatives, this Government Reform Committee, goes into effect prior 1:00 p.m. Eastern.

Here's what's happening right now. In about 20 minutes there is going to be a meeting which includes the U.S. House of Representatives counsel in George Greer's (ph) circuit court judge room. OK?

And what's going to happen is all the attorneys from all the different sides are going to get together, including hospital administrators. They are going to go over the wording of that subpoena very specifically so it's crystal clear what should or should not happen at 1:00 p.m. Eastern.

I spoke with the hospice earlier today. They said that they would abide by the law, even though it wasn't specifically clear that they were necessarily required to, because this is unprecedented when the House of Representatives subpoenas one their -- one of their clients.

So right now what's happening is there is a prayer vigil happening behind me right now. Earlier today we saw Bob Schindler, Terri Schiavo's father, as he was going back into the hospice to stand vigil with his daughter. The mother we understand has been here the entire time as they await this very important decision in their daughter's life.

But two things are happening right now, Wolf. Because the parents' attorneys are not hedging their bets. In addition to seeing what happens with this House subpoena, their attorney has filed an appeal in federal court basically asking that the federal court here in Tampa review the actions by the state.

What they are trying to do is put anything in motion. Anything at all that will guarantee that doctors do not cut off her food and water supply at 1:00 this afternoon -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And just to be precise on this point, even if they were to remove her feeding tube at 1:00, as ordered by the court, that doesn't mean she's going to die immediately. Best estimates are she will live at least seven to -- seven days, maybe 14 days. And there have been at least two previous occasions where courts have ordered her feeding tube to be removed.

LIN: Right. And in the last case, two years ago, within 48 hours that tube was reinserted after a law went into effect giving Governor Jeb Bush the authority to authorize that.

So, yes, it does take some time. Obviously the parents' contention is that there would be some pain and suffering involved, literally starvation of their daughter, whom they believe is perfectly capable of living out a full life.

So there is time. It doesn't necessarily mean that Terri Schiavo would expire today if they remove the tube.

BLITZER: Carol Lin is going to be standing by outside that hospice for us, watching all of these developments. Carol, thank you very much.

This has been an incredibly complex legal and moral tug-of-war. Kendall Coffey is a former United States attorney in Florida and a frequent guest of ours.

Kendall, thanks very much for joining us. First of all, you know something about Congress stepping in with subpoenas in a last-minute effort to stop something happening along these lines in Florida because you were involved in the Elian Gonzalez case. Remind our viewers about a precedent that some are using to explain what Congress is doing now.

KENDALL COFFEY, FMR. U.S. ATTORNEY: Well, the same House committee that has issued the subpoenas that are apparently being served imminently in Clearwater issued a subpoena directed to Elian Gonzalez, directing him to testify on a date certain, in effect, to make sure that he would stay in this country long enough for the judicial processes to play out.

It could be a critical difference, though, Wolf. In that case, one, it was ultimately the judicial processes that played out over five or six months. Congress did not intend or try to step further into the controversy and allow the courts to decide that one. Here it seems that the courts have spent years in the process. And Congress is stepping in now perhaps to either set this on a different course or perhaps get this over to federal court, because the parents of Terri Schiavo have lost time and time again in the state courts of Florida.

BLITZER: And for those of our viewers who don't remember, Elian Gonzalez was that little Cuban boy who relatives wanted him to stay in Florida but the Cuban government wanted him back. And he eventually went back and lives in Cuba right now despite all those maneuverings in the U.S.

If the U.S. Supreme Court has already decided it doesn't have necessary jurisdiction, this is a matter for the state of Florida to deal with, how is Congress going to override that?

COFFEY: Well, the reality is that the U.S. Supreme Court, when they rejected the latest of the Schindlers' appeals, did not have before them a congressional subpoena. And while I think there's lots and lots of questions that could be asked about a subpoena directed, in effect, under the authority to produce testimony from someone who clearly cannot testify, nonetheless, I think that is going to be enough of a procedure to cause things to slow down once again.

I would be surprised if the state court decides that he can trump a congressional subpoena, which ultimately represents federal process. We'll know in a little while. But it is very possible that the final chapter for Terri Schiavo is not going to be written today.

BLITZER: So basically what you're suggesting, that over the next, what, 50 minutes or so, there will be an action taken, some sort of stay on removing her feeding tube?

COFFEY: Yes, because the reality is that a congressional subpoena may or may not be validly issued for this kind of purpose. I have lots of questions about it. But if you're in the position of the health care providers, even of the state court judge, you have to presume that Congress is acting lawfully.

And to ignore a subpoena of a congressional committee exposes you not only to contempt, but also to prosecution for a federal misdemeanor. Very few people are going to want to jump in on that kind of risk, Wolf, until there is a federal court ruling or some further declaration from some court somewhere that a congressional subpoena can be ignored.

BLITZER: And even if it does take a little bit longer, as I just want to remind our viewers, she's not going to die immediately, even if that feeding tube is removed at 1:00. By all accounts, she'll live at least 7 days, 14 days. Although her family, at least her sisters and her brothers and her parents are concerned that she would be in some suffering as a result of removing that feeding tube.

Her husband says this is what she wanted. But she never put that in writing before. She never left what's called a living will along those lines. And legally, almost all of the courts have ruled it's the husband who decides what happens next. Is that right?

COFFEY: That's right. But it's based upon the testimony that judges in courts after courts in the state system of Florida that represents her will. In other words, they believe on the state judicial side that they are not enforcing the husband's choice, but the actual will of Terri Schiavo, who our courts in Florida have determined would not have wanted to continue to live in this kind of what the courts are calling a persistent vegetative state.

BLITZER: Kendall Coffey I'm going to have you stand by as well, the former U.S. attorney in Florida and our legal analyst. Kendall, thanks very much.

We'll move on to some other news, but we'll get back to all the latest developments in the Terri Schiavo case as they unfold.

There's that other case of that missing little Florida girl, Jessica Lunsford. Police continuing to question registered sex offender John Couey to see if he knows anything about her disappearance. He was picked up in Augusta, Georgia, yesterday on unrelated charges. Today he waived extradition to Florida, but authorities aren't saying when he'll be moved.

Police say Couey sometimes stayed with a relative who lived across the street from the Lunsfords and left the state about a week after Jessica's disappearance. The little girl vanished from her home some three weeks ago. We're watching that story as well.

Also in Florida, what's being called the latest multiple murder in Jackson County, some 60 miles west of Tallahassee. The bodies of a 19-year-old woman and her three young sons were found inside their apartment. The youngest victim was only 3 weeks old. Also dead, his 1 and 3-year-old brothers.

The bodies were discovered after neighbors heard knocking on a wall. A 2-year-old girl was found alive inside.

Police are looking for two people seen on a Wal-Mart surveillance tape. No word yet on their possible connection to this horrible, horrible case.

Two years ago tomorrow, U.S. forces invaded Iraq. What lies ahead for the war-torn country and the region? From the fall of Baghdad and Saddam Hussein to the battle of insurgents and the fight for democracy, coming up I'll speak live with three CNN correspondents who covered the fight for Iraq.

And as the Lebanese decide the future of their country, another veteran war correspondent recalls the terror of the past and its hold on the future. We'll go there.

You're watching NEWS FROM CNN, and we're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Tomorrow marks two years since American troops invaded Iraq. Still torn by violence and occupied by coalition forces, Iraq is nonetheless taking important steps towards self- government. The man widely expected to be Iraq's next president, the Kurdish leader, Jalal Talabani, spoke today with our Aneesh Raman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JALAL TALABANI, KURDISH LEADER: In my opinion we are in need to have these troops here. But the presence of them will be changing. When we will finish forming our military units, police units, we will ask the coalition forces to leave the cities, to go to special military bases, and to leave the cities for Iraqi security forces.

And we don't want terrorists to ask them to participate in all battles. We will have it against the reason (ph) because it's the time for us, for Iraqis to solve the problem, and to pay the price of our new liberation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Joining us now to talk about Iraq two years after the invasion, our three correspondents who know the country well. Aneesh Raman is in Baghdad. You just heard from him. Nic Robertson is joining us from New York. And Jane Arraf is in Qusaybah. She's embedded with U.S. forces.

Let me start with Aneesh. You're in Baghdad.

Did the president expect -- the expected president, Jalal Talabani, give you any idea when there will finally be a new Iraqi government? The elections were, after all, on January 30.

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, he gave the specific dates of either March 25th or the 26th, a week from today and tomorrow, when the National Assembly will convene again. At that point, he says that they will put forth names for those top positions, Ibrahim al-Jaafari for prime minister, Talabani for president.

They are now actively seeking a Sunni to take over as speaker of the assembly. He didn't give us any name. But that really will be the first step towards forming this government. He is well aware of brewing frustration here on the ground by Iraqis and among the international community for this government to take hold.

BLITZER: Jane Arraf, you're embedded with U.S. forces somewhere in Iraq right now. We don't want to get into details, too much details. But reflect a little bit on what has happened in Iraq over these past two years, two years that have dramatically changed the country. And you know this place well, having lived there for many years now.

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Wolf, it's extraordinary. I still catch myself at times, thinking, did this really happen? Did this war really happen? Can this possibly be this great event? Because almost everything is different.

When you go through these cities and towns, there's a fault line here. We're on the verge of history. It could go either way.

But what we are seeing are people who are just beginning to believe that they can take control of their future perhaps. Immense challenges here.

Obviously even the sight of U.S. Marines that we're with -- and we're near the Syrian border -- would have been unthinkable before two years ago. People saying what they think would have been very difficult two years ago. But then again, other things have changed, as well, not necessarily for the good. It has been absolutely cataclysmic, and people are still coming to grips with it.

BLITZER: Well, flesh that out a little bit, Jane. What specifically has gone to the worse as opposed to what existed during Saddam Hussein's regime?

ARRAF: I have to say, Wolf, that Iraqis are extremely complex. This is a complicated country with a tortured history. But it is not as clear-cut as believing that Saddam Hussein's Iraq was a dictatorship where everyone was miserable, because that wasn't the case.

If you stayed outside of politics, if you weren't from a minority of people who were persecuted at that moment in time, there were a lot of Iraqis who got by relatively well. And now they feel they don't.

They're more afraid now than they were then. A lot of them don't have jobs now, when they had jobs, however badly paid, then. So it's a very...

BLITZER: I think we just lost our videophone connection with Jane Arraf. We'll try to reconnect with her.

Let's bring our Nic Robertson in to this discussion as well.

You spent a lot of time, Nic, as all of our viewers here in the United States and around the world know, in Iraq. You were there that first day, the first night, in effect, when the war started, when the U.S. began pounding Saddam Hussein's positions. Reflect a little bit what this second anniversary tomorrow means to you.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, having just come back from Iraq as well, and just following up on the elections, I think we're beginning -- and one has to add caveats here -- but we're beginning to see, if you will, a watershed. That the elections, the insurgents so threatened to disrupt, that everyone in Iraq was worried about, passed off relatively well.

That encouraged people. It put on a light at the end of the tunnel.

We see in people's daily lives that they are getting back to some of the things they want to do, their personal things, sports. We watched a body building competition. They wouldn't have been able to do that a year ago they said because of the violence. The violence is as bad now. They're having it because they're getting on with their lives.

There are a lot of indicators there that tend to show that perhaps people are putting up with the insurgency. Of course hope it will diminish, but getting on with their lives.

And we see that, as well the advertising campaign, if you will, on Iraqi television. The Iraqi government now telling people who the insurgents are, telling them that their police force is good, totally unlike Saddam Hussein's rule.

So there are many things there that are beginning to show that the country is in this slow movement towards -- towards that democracy. Many conflicts in the past. People get used to the violence.

There's an incremental change towards a better life. And that, I think, is what we're at the very beginnings of seeing here in Iraq -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Based on what you can tell, Nic -- and you spent a lot of time there -- how much progress is being made in getting Iraqi military and police forces up to speed so that they can get the security job done and let U.S. and other coalition forces go back home?

ROBERTSON: Well, it is a changing environment out on the streets. In driving around Baghdad a year ago, you would have seen a lot more U.S. troops patrolling, running checkpoints in the city. Now when you travel throughout the city, there are a lot of Iraqi police checkpoints.

And perhaps one of the real big indicators here of how far the Iraqi security forces have come -- that's not to say that they don't have a huge distance to go -- but a year ago around the very important for the Shias' religious festivities, huge explosions and deaths around their holy cities in the center of the country. That didn't happen this year.

Why? Because the Iraqis were able to provide their own security, it seems. And it worked. And that's perhaps an indication of where the country's going.

The politicians are saying, don't pull the troops out until we're ready. Let's do it region by region. And it appears as if there are some regions in Iraq that are beginning to get ready for that moment -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic Robertson, enjoy New York while you can, because probably sooner rather than later you'll be back without that tie, looking as handsome as you do right now. You always look good. But you look fabulous in the suit and tie in New York, something our viewers are not used to seeing you dressed in all that often. Nic Robertson, thanks very much.

Aneesh Raman is in Baghdad, always looking good. And Jane Arraf is on the scene for us, as she always is. Three excellent reporters. Appreciate all your work, all your excellent work very, very much.

George Kennan, an influential American diplomat during the Cold War era has died. Kennan is considered the primary architect of the U.S. policy of containment towards the Soviet Union. He was a State Department policy planner and later served as ambassador to the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia.

Kennan wrote more an a dozen books, won two Pulitzer prizes. George Kennan was 101 years old.

Congress calls on Terri Schiavo to testify even though doctors and the courts say she's brain dead. I'll talk about the legal issues and the overall ethics of the case with my next guests. They're standing by next on NEWS FROM CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to NEWS FROM CNN, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. More now on the case of Terri Schiavo. The legal tug-of- war over the fate of one woman dramatically expands to involve the United States Congress. As we understand it now, a legal representative from Capitol Hill is to meet at any moment with officials in Clearwater, Florida to discuss the subpoenas issued late this morning by a U.S. congressional committee. The courts have cleared the way for the removal of Schiavo's feeding tube as early as 1:00 p.m. Eastern. That's in less than half an hour from now.

But with these subpoenas, including one for Schiavo herself, removing the tube might be construed as contempt of Congress.

Joining us again, Kendall Coffey, the former U.S. attorney in Florida. He's joining us in Miami. And Arthur Caplan is director of the Center for Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania, both frequent guests on our program.

The Associated Press, Kendall, is now saying that that subpoena from the Senate Health Committee has actually been delivered, served, delivered to the hospice. What does that mean at 1:00? Is it almost certainly not going to happen, the feeding tube is going to be removed?

COFFEY: Well, I think it would be very difficult to take a chance. It's a questionable use of a subpoena, but it is still the process of the United States Congress. And for that reason, I think whoever is in a position of having to do the physical act of removing the tubes is going to want some further guidance from some judge somewhere before they take any steps.

BLITZER: Because they're going to be not only concerned about violating a congressional subpoena, but physically, whoever removes that tube could wind up in grave -- in great legal -- in legal danger, isn't that right, Kendall?

COFFEY: Well, exactly. And even if you are convinced you would win that legal battle, because ultimately you think the subpoena's questionable, it's a subpoena that purports to seek testimony from someone who clearly cannot testify, nonetheless, very few people are going to want to face the prospect of a federal criminal prosecution in order to test the principle.

BLITZER: Where does that put the case now, Arthur? Because you've been looking at it, studying this case for many, many years.

CAPLAN: Well, I think these last minute attempts by Congress to pass a law that says we have to take Terri out under habeas corpus grounds, we're going to subpoena her to appear in Washington, we want these things to be stopped by almost any doctor and any means they can think of, it's trouble. First of all, Wolf, it says to the federal -- it says to the state courts of Florida, we don't think you're adequate, we don't care that you've had eleven appeals to your appellate court, four to the supreme court of Florida, we're not going to pay attention; We're going to stick our nose in.

I just left a room full of doctors and said, you know, do you think Bill Frist and Tom DeLay should get involved in end-of-life care decision-making, or do you think should it be a husband and a wife? And they looked at me as if I had, you know, gone off my rocker and said why would Congress be the place to adjudicate the fate of someone like a Terri Schiavo? So I think it's trouble all around.

BLITZER: Well, Arthur, I think it's fair to say that these members of Congress, whether Tom DeLay or Bill Frist, or for that matter the president of the United States himself who issued a very strong statement last night, all of them are saying this is a woman's life that's at stake. Her parents, her brothers, other family members with the exception of the husband, they all say keep her alive right now, do whatever you can, because she can communicate; she is not in this so-called vegetative state that the husband and some doctors have suggested.

CAPLAN: Well, you have to come back, Wolf, and say seven years of litigation has pretty clearly got to be due process and a fair review. That's what has gone on here. The principle at the end of the day is not what legislators think, not what the governor of Florida thinks, not what the president thinks. If she can't speak for herself, her husband gets to step forward and say, I know what she would have wanted.

You know, we just had a debate, Wolf, about the sanctity of marriage, the gay marriage dispute. Many of the people who are now saying I want to get involved, I don't like what the husband is doing, just gave speeches on the House and Senate floor a couple of months ago, saying you have to respect the sanctity of marriage. Well, this is it.

BLITZER: I want to bring Kendall back in a moment. But you know what the parents are saying and the brothers are saying, that this husband has moved on, he's got a new relationship, he's got kids from a new relationship; he just wants this over with, and he's really not, first and foremost, concerned about Terri Schiavo.

CAPLAN: Well, I respect the parents, and I met the brother. I think they love her. I think they're trying hard to do what they see is right. But this husband could have moved on. He could walk from this case. He doesn't have to be involved in it anymore. He keeps saying, I love my wife, it's true I have a new girlfriend, it's true my own life has moved on, but I'm not divorcing her, I know what she would have wanted, I won't abandoned her and I know best; not parents, not brothers and sisters, I was the one she chose to live with, I'm the one who ultimately should have the authority here; and he, if you will, has not walked away from this case, despite, you know, as much pressure as anybody could possibly be under to do so.

BLITZER: All right. We're going to pick up that thought, and I'll bring back Kendall Coffey. But we have to take a quick break. We'll have more with Arthur Caplan and Kendall Coffey on the Terri Schiavo case, a very, very complex difficult issue, right after this break.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The United States Congress wants to see her. They want to evaluate her condition. That is basically why any disabled person would go anywhere, is they want to be able to be out. And certainly to deprive her of that while the Congress is legally ordering her to be there, we believe would be inappropriate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Back now with the latest on the Terri Schiavo case. Our guests, Kendall Coffey, the former U.S. attorney in Florida, and Arthur Caplan, the director of the center of bioethics at the university of Pennsylvania.

Kendall Coffey, I'll start with you. Here's a statement that Congressman Henry Waxman has just released. He's the ranking Democrat on the Government Reform Committee, regarding the subpoenas that his committee has just issued. "These subpoenas," he says, "are a flagrant abuse of power. Congress is turning the Schiavo family's personal tragedy into a national political farce. The committee has no business inserting itself in the middle of an excruciating, private family matter."

Not only this committee, but the Senate Health Committee is also issuing a subpoena ordering her to testify before that committee at the end of the month. The notion of Congress intervening right now, in a matter that the state courts -- in your state of Florida, the state legislature, the governor, they've all been involved in it for seven, eight years. As Arthur Caplan had pointed out repeatedly, what about that states rights versus federal government rights?

COFFEY: Well, that's the giant issue from a legal standpoint, Wolf. There's the human drama between husband and parents. And of course, this political controversy. But from a constitutional standpoint, from the way we are governed, since the founding of republic, the giant issue here is the role of the judiciary versus the role of the legislature. Judges do not tell the president of the United States how to conduct war. Judges don't tell Congress whether or not to raise taxes. By the same token, the legislature does not have a role in telling judges how to decide individual cases where the individual rights of human beings are analyzed, considered, developed, through many hours, sometimes years, of painstaking deliberation.

In this case, I've got to tell you, I read all the opinions involving Terri Schiavo. You will never see a judicial system that gave more compassionate, painstaking care to decide a matter fairly. And that's why I think there is frustration, as we see this conflict now in effect between a judiciary which has been unanimous. State and federals saying this is the result we have, there may be disagreement, but this is the result we have. And the legislature, at the state and national level, that seems bent on somehow involving themselves in how this litigated matter is to be resolved.

BLITZER: Arthur, I want to play for you, and we'll get that ready, a sound byte from Michael Schindler, the brother of Terri Schiavo. Within the past hour he was here on CNN. Rick Sanchez interviewed him. We'll get that ready. But he makes a very powerful case that if average citizens like you and me and others could see her, could see the videotape, the most recent expressions that she's making, the communication she's doing in her own little way, the smile on her face, we would walk away and say, you know what, there's a person in there, there's a person who's alive, and we shouldn't take that life away.

CAPLAN: Well, it's a tough call. But, as Kendall points out, there have been innumerable doctors in that room who've examined her -- four of them came in to assist the trial judge in 2002. Pictures were taken of her brain. It showed irreversible damage, to the point where the doctors stated again and again, she can't think or feel. She has reflexes. She can produce tears. She can grimace, but she can't have any consciousness. To some extent, the family wants to see, hopefully, the brother and the parents, what they wish to see. Some sign that she still might be there.

So I understand why he may want to interpret those kind of reflexes that are left. And that isn't where the medical data has come in again and again. Other point, Wolf, you know, it doesn't really matter whether she's permanently unconscious or not. What the husband can say is look at her, even if she's minimally conscious, she wouldn't want to be that way. She still has the right, she still has the right, not to endure a fate that she wouldn't choose to endure.

BLITZER: All right. Let's hear what the brother of Terri Schiavo said here on CNN, within the past hour. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOBBY SCHINDLER, BROTHER: Well, I think, you know, people would see that we're trying to starve to death a live human being. And I think if people saw, you know, it takes me back to the -- to why they are trying so hard to conceal Terri and why they won't allow any videos of Terri or any pictures. Because they know when the public sees just how alive she is, they are just astonished that we're trying to starve her to death. So I think if we do, if we are able to bring her to Washington, it would just, it would show -- it would show everybody just, just how alive and alert and how responsive Terri is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And he and the parents, Arthur, go further and say if they only let her get some rehabilitation, and work with her a little bit, she could improve, and she might not need that feeding tube down the years, in the years to come.

CAPLAN: Well, again, someone who's been in this state for 17 years, I don't know of any medically documented case where somebody has had a recovery. I've seen a few physicians. A few say there may be something more that could be done with her, but I think most of them have been coming from, if you will, an attempt to support the family on this. No one likes to go and say to anybody, there's no hope. There's no possibility. But again, the medical data collected by the independent physicians back in 2002 said the brain damage here is so severe that there's no possibility of a recovery.

So, Michael Schiavo, the husband, comes back and says, I hear what the family's saying. I don't think she'd want to endure this medical fate. And so it is a right, if you will, just as fundamental as the right not to be killed, she has the right not to take medical treatment that would keep her in a state that she wouldn't choose to be in. That's probably the core of the right to refuse treatment.

BLITZER: We'll see what happens 15 minutes or so from now. That's when the feeding tube was supposed to be removed, exactly 1:00 p.m. Eastern. But now there's been a congressional subpoena that's been served on that hospice in Florida. We'll see what happens next. We'll have continuing coverage here throughout the day, throughout this afternoon, and beyond. Obviously this story not going away. Arthur Caplan, thanks very much for joining us. Kendall Coffey, thanks to you, as well.

Reliving the nightmare from Lebanon. Almost 30 years later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You actually see who was shooting at you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we just heard very heavy caliber machine- gun fire and then it was like roman candles, like fireworks pouring down on us. Bright orange balls of fire, sparks. The flak as bullets hit concrete and metal. And you knew you were about to die.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Our Brent Sadler and Anderson Cooper walking the streets of Beirut, once again, amid the winds of change.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. A grenade exploded outside a house occupied by Syrian workers in Lebanon today. There were no injuries in the second attack against Syrians in two days. Last month's assassination of the former prime minister Rafik Hariri has plunged Lebanon into its worst political crisis since 1989, and the end of the 15-year civil war.

CNN's Anderson Cooper is in Beirut. He talked about the city's well-earned reputation for violence with our veteran correspondent Brent Sadler.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRENT SADLER, CNN BEIRUT BUREAU CHIEF: This week, although sporadic fighting is continuing, the area...

(voice-over): That was back in 1983...

All told, I covered the war here for more than 20 years.

(on camera): There was no more dangerous place a journalist could be during those years. This location is where I nearly bought it.

Yeah, OK, there's the hill there. So we would have been about here.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Could you actually see who was shooting at you?

SADLER: No. We just heard very heavy caliber machine gunfire. And then it was like Roman candles, like fireworks pouring down on us, bright orange balls of fire, sparks falling, the and flak as bullets hit concrete and metal. You knew you were about to die.

COOPER: And after you were shot over here, you ran into this area.

SADLER: That's right. After the cannon fire came down, I hit the deck, saw the rounds coming backwards and forwards going both sides of my body. And then I heard shouting, Brent, Brent, move, move, move!

So, I looked and all my colleagues were in there. So I just -- my cameraman hit me in the wrist, and nearly died here.

COOPER (voice-over): During the war years, whole sections of Beirut were reduced to rubble. Last month, when the former prime minister was blown up and an entire city block was destroyed in the blast, the scene looked all too familiar.

SADLER: The Rafik Hariri assassination is just a mile down there. So you've got Rafik Hariri's massive bomb blast, a turning point of Lebanese history just down there. And just here in front of us, an awful reminder of what happened in that massive car bomb against the U.S. here.

COOPER: So this was the site of the U.S. embassy. SADLER: The images of that day were -- I remember vividly, the collapsed floors of the building, body parts hanging out of some of the floors. It came down like a deck of cards.

The car bomb is a weapon of choice by terrorists really was developed in this country. The car bomb and the truck bomb had a devastating impact, claimed more than 240 American marine lives at the airport. Who could not forget those horrendous images that day.

All of the buildings downtown used to look like this, millions of bullet holes everywhere.

This would be around about here, you can see the archway here, this is what it was like throughout the city. This was the green line area dividing Christian east from Muslim west. This is where some of the worst battles too place.

COOPER: I mean, is change possible here?

SADLER: It has changed, Anderson. Don't forget, these people, the sectarian divide here, were tearing each other's throats out. They hated each other. They murdered each other.

I guess I've learned more than anything else the durability of mankind to withstand some of the most incredible horrors and bloodshed. And also learn that deep divisions between societies, political groups, religious divides cannot be just brought together like that with some neat, magic formula. For policies to expect to change people's mindsets and traditions and culture and history is no overnight job.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Anderson Cooper reporting from Beirut together with our Brent Sadler. We're just getting this in from the associated press down in Florida, in Pinellas Park. The Associated Press reporting that the Pinellas Circuit Court chief judge has blocked the removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube, because the case's presiding judge can't be located to deal with congressional subpoenas. That means the tube is not going to be removed in seven minutes, 1:00 p.m. Eastern, as earlier ordered.

There have been subpoenas that have now been served on the hospice, where 41-year-old Terri Schiavo is living. The service, the subpoenas are calling on her to testify before a U.S. congressional committee. The courts are not going to determine whether or not those subpoenas should be honored, in effect, but in the meantime, the scheduled removal of the feeding tube, 1:00 p.m. Eastern, seven minutes, six minutes from now or so, will not happen until the courts down in Florida consider these congressional subpoenas.

We'll watch this story for you. Our Carol Lin is on the scene. Joe Johns is on Capitol Hill. Much more coverage coming up throughout the afternoon, including on "LIVE FROM" at the top of the hour. We'll take a quick break.

We'll have more news right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Momentarily we're expecting to hear from the parents of Terri Schiavo. They're standing by awaiting a decision from the Florida courts on what will happen involving the feeding tube that was supposed to be removed in 2 1/2 minutes, but now won't be removed because of subpoenas from the U.S. Congress, at least for the time being. We'll watch all of that. I'll be back later today with more on this story, back every weekday, 5:00 p.m. Eastern for "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS." Among other things, though, overcoming baseball's black eye -- steroids. Former Dodgers manager Tommy Lasorda has been around the campaign for decades, and has seen the good and the bad. He'll join me from Los Angeles Dodgers spring training facility in Vero Beach, Florida. We'll talk about the latest crisis in baseball.

Until then, thanks very much for watching news from CNN. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LIVE FROM" with Kyra Phillips and Tony Harris. They're standing by. Much more on the Terri Schiavo case right at the top of the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired March 18, 2005 - 12:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Thanks very much for joining us.
Unfolding this hour on NEWS FROM CNN, the U.S. Congress calls on Terri Schiavo to testify despite what the courts and her husband have described as her persistent vegetative state. It's the latest twist in the drive to keep her alive.

And nearly two years since the start of the war in Iraq, there's still no end to the violence, nor stopping the march toward democracy. We'll hear from three CNN correspondents who report from the region.

Also, reflections on a very different war. This one long past, yet echoing still today. Our senior international correspondent Brent Sadler reports from Beirut and recalls the day he almost died.

First, some other headlines happening right "Now in the News."

In Atlanta, the funeral service for the sheriff's deputy who lost his life in the courthouse shootings exactly one week ago. That would be last Friday. A massive show of respect for Sergeant Hoyt Teasley on a day when Atlanta's police chief again has conceded mistakes in the pursuit of multiple murder suspect Brian Nichols.

Now we won't get to see the civil wedding of Prince Charles and longtime companion Camilla Parker Bowles. But the prince's office says a separate religious ceremony will be televised live. The archbishop of Canterbury is to lead that ceremony at Windsor Castle, following a civil ceremony at Windsor Town Hall on April 8.

Among the most popular stories we're following this hour on CNN.com, two marriage proposals for Scott Peterson. Prison officials say two women called California's San Quentin Prison to say they want to marry the death row inmate.

And this story, Cuban President Fidel Castro is upset with "Forbes" magazine. He criticizes the magazine for listing him among the world's richest people. His reported net worth, according to the magazine, $550 million. You can read the details. Simply go to CNN.com.

First, the frenzied effort to keep Terri Schiavo alive. Though she hasn't spoken in years, the brain-damaged woman from Florida is now being called before the United States Congress to testify. By order of the courts, though, including the highest court in the land, the feeding tube that keeps her alive could be removed within one hour. Who has jurisdiction, the U.S. Congress or the courts? Among those watching this case, President Bush himself.

Following the story for us, our congressional correspondent Joe Johns is on Capitol Hill. In Clearwater, Florida, Carol Lin standing by. First let's go to Joe Johns with the latest congressional maneuverings.

What exactly is going on, Joe?

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this is still a fairly fast- moving story here on Capitol Hill. The House Government Reform Committee now reporting that it has issued five subpoenas for Michael Schiavo, Terri Schiavo and three health care officials to appear before the Congress on March 25. We are being told, however, they may be allowed to appear on remote television.

Efforts going on dual tracks here on Capitol Hill. On the Senate side, Senate attorneys just finished giving a briefing to reporters, giving their theories on this case, indicating that they have, of course, here before the health committee issued an invitation to Terri Schiavo and her husband to appear before the committee on March 28. They say that invitation extends certain legal protections to Terri Schiavo in the event anyone tries to remove the feeding tube. Now, we're also told in the event it is removed, the United States attorney could conceivably seek a temporary restraining order before a court to change things around.

Meanwhile, of course, the brother of Terri Schiavo, Bobby, on Capitol Hill yesterday and today, making the rounds, talking to senators and members of Congress. He told us a little while ago he would actually like to see Terri Schiavo appear before the committee in person.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOBBY SCHINDLER, BROTHER: Well, I think, you know, people would see that we're trying to starve to death a live human being. And I think if people saw -- you know, it takes me back to why they are trying to hard to conceal Terri and why they won't allow any videos of Terri and any pictures. Because they know when the public sees just how alive she is they are just astonished that we're trying to starve her to death.

So I think if we do, if we are able to bring her to Washington, it would just -- it would show everybody just how alive and alert and responsive Terri is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: Of course, there's no clear word on whether the health committee on the Senate side would actually want to see Terri Schiavo in person, even though they've extended an invitation to her. It's quite clear here on Capitol Hill that this is an attempt to keep the feeding tube from being removed. In fact, the House majority leader, Bill Frist, issued a statement earlier today indicating that there are certain penalties in this type of a situation. We have a graphic that I can read to you now. It says in part, "Federal criminal law protects witnesses called before official congressional committee proceedings from anyone who may obstruct or impede a witness attendance or testimony."

So that's the situation here on Capitol Hill. Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Joe, do we know if any of those documents, any of those subpoenas, have actually been served on anyone in Clearwater, the hospice, family members, the husband, anyone along those lines? Have the documents been faxed there? Have they been e-mailed there? Has anyone actually served any of those congressional subpoenas?

JOHNS: Wolf, frankly, that is a question I cannot give you at this team. A briefing was scheduled to start just about 20 minutes ago over on the House side where they talked about this. The information I was given is that the subpoenas have been issued. No word on whether they've been delivered or served.

BLITZER: All right. Joe Johns, stand by. We'll be getting back to you. Joe Johns with all the latest maneuvering on the Terri Schiavo case from Capitol Hill.

Carol Lin is standing by in Clearwater, Florida, outside, near the hospice.

Is that where you are, Carol?

CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I am, Wolf. This is where Terri Schiavo is being cared for. This is where the court order would go into effect at 1:00 Eastern, unless this subpoena from the U.S. House of Representatives, this Government Reform Committee, goes into effect prior 1:00 p.m. Eastern.

Here's what's happening right now. In about 20 minutes there is going to be a meeting which includes the U.S. House of Representatives counsel in George Greer's (ph) circuit court judge room. OK?

And what's going to happen is all the attorneys from all the different sides are going to get together, including hospital administrators. They are going to go over the wording of that subpoena very specifically so it's crystal clear what should or should not happen at 1:00 p.m. Eastern.

I spoke with the hospice earlier today. They said that they would abide by the law, even though it wasn't specifically clear that they were necessarily required to, because this is unprecedented when the House of Representatives subpoenas one their -- one of their clients.

So right now what's happening is there is a prayer vigil happening behind me right now. Earlier today we saw Bob Schindler, Terri Schiavo's father, as he was going back into the hospice to stand vigil with his daughter. The mother we understand has been here the entire time as they await this very important decision in their daughter's life.

But two things are happening right now, Wolf. Because the parents' attorneys are not hedging their bets. In addition to seeing what happens with this House subpoena, their attorney has filed an appeal in federal court basically asking that the federal court here in Tampa review the actions by the state.

What they are trying to do is put anything in motion. Anything at all that will guarantee that doctors do not cut off her food and water supply at 1:00 this afternoon -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And just to be precise on this point, even if they were to remove her feeding tube at 1:00, as ordered by the court, that doesn't mean she's going to die immediately. Best estimates are she will live at least seven to -- seven days, maybe 14 days. And there have been at least two previous occasions where courts have ordered her feeding tube to be removed.

LIN: Right. And in the last case, two years ago, within 48 hours that tube was reinserted after a law went into effect giving Governor Jeb Bush the authority to authorize that.

So, yes, it does take some time. Obviously the parents' contention is that there would be some pain and suffering involved, literally starvation of their daughter, whom they believe is perfectly capable of living out a full life.

So there is time. It doesn't necessarily mean that Terri Schiavo would expire today if they remove the tube.

BLITZER: Carol Lin is going to be standing by outside that hospice for us, watching all of these developments. Carol, thank you very much.

This has been an incredibly complex legal and moral tug-of-war. Kendall Coffey is a former United States attorney in Florida and a frequent guest of ours.

Kendall, thanks very much for joining us. First of all, you know something about Congress stepping in with subpoenas in a last-minute effort to stop something happening along these lines in Florida because you were involved in the Elian Gonzalez case. Remind our viewers about a precedent that some are using to explain what Congress is doing now.

KENDALL COFFEY, FMR. U.S. ATTORNEY: Well, the same House committee that has issued the subpoenas that are apparently being served imminently in Clearwater issued a subpoena directed to Elian Gonzalez, directing him to testify on a date certain, in effect, to make sure that he would stay in this country long enough for the judicial processes to play out.

It could be a critical difference, though, Wolf. In that case, one, it was ultimately the judicial processes that played out over five or six months. Congress did not intend or try to step further into the controversy and allow the courts to decide that one. Here it seems that the courts have spent years in the process. And Congress is stepping in now perhaps to either set this on a different course or perhaps get this over to federal court, because the parents of Terri Schiavo have lost time and time again in the state courts of Florida.

BLITZER: And for those of our viewers who don't remember, Elian Gonzalez was that little Cuban boy who relatives wanted him to stay in Florida but the Cuban government wanted him back. And he eventually went back and lives in Cuba right now despite all those maneuverings in the U.S.

If the U.S. Supreme Court has already decided it doesn't have necessary jurisdiction, this is a matter for the state of Florida to deal with, how is Congress going to override that?

COFFEY: Well, the reality is that the U.S. Supreme Court, when they rejected the latest of the Schindlers' appeals, did not have before them a congressional subpoena. And while I think there's lots and lots of questions that could be asked about a subpoena directed, in effect, under the authority to produce testimony from someone who clearly cannot testify, nonetheless, I think that is going to be enough of a procedure to cause things to slow down once again.

I would be surprised if the state court decides that he can trump a congressional subpoena, which ultimately represents federal process. We'll know in a little while. But it is very possible that the final chapter for Terri Schiavo is not going to be written today.

BLITZER: So basically what you're suggesting, that over the next, what, 50 minutes or so, there will be an action taken, some sort of stay on removing her feeding tube?

COFFEY: Yes, because the reality is that a congressional subpoena may or may not be validly issued for this kind of purpose. I have lots of questions about it. But if you're in the position of the health care providers, even of the state court judge, you have to presume that Congress is acting lawfully.

And to ignore a subpoena of a congressional committee exposes you not only to contempt, but also to prosecution for a federal misdemeanor. Very few people are going to want to jump in on that kind of risk, Wolf, until there is a federal court ruling or some further declaration from some court somewhere that a congressional subpoena can be ignored.

BLITZER: And even if it does take a little bit longer, as I just want to remind our viewers, she's not going to die immediately, even if that feeding tube is removed at 1:00. By all accounts, she'll live at least 7 days, 14 days. Although her family, at least her sisters and her brothers and her parents are concerned that she would be in some suffering as a result of removing that feeding tube.

Her husband says this is what she wanted. But she never put that in writing before. She never left what's called a living will along those lines. And legally, almost all of the courts have ruled it's the husband who decides what happens next. Is that right?

COFFEY: That's right. But it's based upon the testimony that judges in courts after courts in the state system of Florida that represents her will. In other words, they believe on the state judicial side that they are not enforcing the husband's choice, but the actual will of Terri Schiavo, who our courts in Florida have determined would not have wanted to continue to live in this kind of what the courts are calling a persistent vegetative state.

BLITZER: Kendall Coffey I'm going to have you stand by as well, the former U.S. attorney in Florida and our legal analyst. Kendall, thanks very much.

We'll move on to some other news, but we'll get back to all the latest developments in the Terri Schiavo case as they unfold.

There's that other case of that missing little Florida girl, Jessica Lunsford. Police continuing to question registered sex offender John Couey to see if he knows anything about her disappearance. He was picked up in Augusta, Georgia, yesterday on unrelated charges. Today he waived extradition to Florida, but authorities aren't saying when he'll be moved.

Police say Couey sometimes stayed with a relative who lived across the street from the Lunsfords and left the state about a week after Jessica's disappearance. The little girl vanished from her home some three weeks ago. We're watching that story as well.

Also in Florida, what's being called the latest multiple murder in Jackson County, some 60 miles west of Tallahassee. The bodies of a 19-year-old woman and her three young sons were found inside their apartment. The youngest victim was only 3 weeks old. Also dead, his 1 and 3-year-old brothers.

The bodies were discovered after neighbors heard knocking on a wall. A 2-year-old girl was found alive inside.

Police are looking for two people seen on a Wal-Mart surveillance tape. No word yet on their possible connection to this horrible, horrible case.

Two years ago tomorrow, U.S. forces invaded Iraq. What lies ahead for the war-torn country and the region? From the fall of Baghdad and Saddam Hussein to the battle of insurgents and the fight for democracy, coming up I'll speak live with three CNN correspondents who covered the fight for Iraq.

And as the Lebanese decide the future of their country, another veteran war correspondent recalls the terror of the past and its hold on the future. We'll go there.

You're watching NEWS FROM CNN, and we're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Tomorrow marks two years since American troops invaded Iraq. Still torn by violence and occupied by coalition forces, Iraq is nonetheless taking important steps towards self- government. The man widely expected to be Iraq's next president, the Kurdish leader, Jalal Talabani, spoke today with our Aneesh Raman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JALAL TALABANI, KURDISH LEADER: In my opinion we are in need to have these troops here. But the presence of them will be changing. When we will finish forming our military units, police units, we will ask the coalition forces to leave the cities, to go to special military bases, and to leave the cities for Iraqi security forces.

And we don't want terrorists to ask them to participate in all battles. We will have it against the reason (ph) because it's the time for us, for Iraqis to solve the problem, and to pay the price of our new liberation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Joining us now to talk about Iraq two years after the invasion, our three correspondents who know the country well. Aneesh Raman is in Baghdad. You just heard from him. Nic Robertson is joining us from New York. And Jane Arraf is in Qusaybah. She's embedded with U.S. forces.

Let me start with Aneesh. You're in Baghdad.

Did the president expect -- the expected president, Jalal Talabani, give you any idea when there will finally be a new Iraqi government? The elections were, after all, on January 30.

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, he gave the specific dates of either March 25th or the 26th, a week from today and tomorrow, when the National Assembly will convene again. At that point, he says that they will put forth names for those top positions, Ibrahim al-Jaafari for prime minister, Talabani for president.

They are now actively seeking a Sunni to take over as speaker of the assembly. He didn't give us any name. But that really will be the first step towards forming this government. He is well aware of brewing frustration here on the ground by Iraqis and among the international community for this government to take hold.

BLITZER: Jane Arraf, you're embedded with U.S. forces somewhere in Iraq right now. We don't want to get into details, too much details. But reflect a little bit on what has happened in Iraq over these past two years, two years that have dramatically changed the country. And you know this place well, having lived there for many years now.

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Wolf, it's extraordinary. I still catch myself at times, thinking, did this really happen? Did this war really happen? Can this possibly be this great event? Because almost everything is different.

When you go through these cities and towns, there's a fault line here. We're on the verge of history. It could go either way.

But what we are seeing are people who are just beginning to believe that they can take control of their future perhaps. Immense challenges here.

Obviously even the sight of U.S. Marines that we're with -- and we're near the Syrian border -- would have been unthinkable before two years ago. People saying what they think would have been very difficult two years ago. But then again, other things have changed, as well, not necessarily for the good. It has been absolutely cataclysmic, and people are still coming to grips with it.

BLITZER: Well, flesh that out a little bit, Jane. What specifically has gone to the worse as opposed to what existed during Saddam Hussein's regime?

ARRAF: I have to say, Wolf, that Iraqis are extremely complex. This is a complicated country with a tortured history. But it is not as clear-cut as believing that Saddam Hussein's Iraq was a dictatorship where everyone was miserable, because that wasn't the case.

If you stayed outside of politics, if you weren't from a minority of people who were persecuted at that moment in time, there were a lot of Iraqis who got by relatively well. And now they feel they don't.

They're more afraid now than they were then. A lot of them don't have jobs now, when they had jobs, however badly paid, then. So it's a very...

BLITZER: I think we just lost our videophone connection with Jane Arraf. We'll try to reconnect with her.

Let's bring our Nic Robertson in to this discussion as well.

You spent a lot of time, Nic, as all of our viewers here in the United States and around the world know, in Iraq. You were there that first day, the first night, in effect, when the war started, when the U.S. began pounding Saddam Hussein's positions. Reflect a little bit what this second anniversary tomorrow means to you.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, having just come back from Iraq as well, and just following up on the elections, I think we're beginning -- and one has to add caveats here -- but we're beginning to see, if you will, a watershed. That the elections, the insurgents so threatened to disrupt, that everyone in Iraq was worried about, passed off relatively well.

That encouraged people. It put on a light at the end of the tunnel.

We see in people's daily lives that they are getting back to some of the things they want to do, their personal things, sports. We watched a body building competition. They wouldn't have been able to do that a year ago they said because of the violence. The violence is as bad now. They're having it because they're getting on with their lives.

There are a lot of indicators there that tend to show that perhaps people are putting up with the insurgency. Of course hope it will diminish, but getting on with their lives.

And we see that, as well the advertising campaign, if you will, on Iraqi television. The Iraqi government now telling people who the insurgents are, telling them that their police force is good, totally unlike Saddam Hussein's rule.

So there are many things there that are beginning to show that the country is in this slow movement towards -- towards that democracy. Many conflicts in the past. People get used to the violence.

There's an incremental change towards a better life. And that, I think, is what we're at the very beginnings of seeing here in Iraq -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Based on what you can tell, Nic -- and you spent a lot of time there -- how much progress is being made in getting Iraqi military and police forces up to speed so that they can get the security job done and let U.S. and other coalition forces go back home?

ROBERTSON: Well, it is a changing environment out on the streets. In driving around Baghdad a year ago, you would have seen a lot more U.S. troops patrolling, running checkpoints in the city. Now when you travel throughout the city, there are a lot of Iraqi police checkpoints.

And perhaps one of the real big indicators here of how far the Iraqi security forces have come -- that's not to say that they don't have a huge distance to go -- but a year ago around the very important for the Shias' religious festivities, huge explosions and deaths around their holy cities in the center of the country. That didn't happen this year.

Why? Because the Iraqis were able to provide their own security, it seems. And it worked. And that's perhaps an indication of where the country's going.

The politicians are saying, don't pull the troops out until we're ready. Let's do it region by region. And it appears as if there are some regions in Iraq that are beginning to get ready for that moment -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic Robertson, enjoy New York while you can, because probably sooner rather than later you'll be back without that tie, looking as handsome as you do right now. You always look good. But you look fabulous in the suit and tie in New York, something our viewers are not used to seeing you dressed in all that often. Nic Robertson, thanks very much.

Aneesh Raman is in Baghdad, always looking good. And Jane Arraf is on the scene for us, as she always is. Three excellent reporters. Appreciate all your work, all your excellent work very, very much.

George Kennan, an influential American diplomat during the Cold War era has died. Kennan is considered the primary architect of the U.S. policy of containment towards the Soviet Union. He was a State Department policy planner and later served as ambassador to the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia.

Kennan wrote more an a dozen books, won two Pulitzer prizes. George Kennan was 101 years old.

Congress calls on Terri Schiavo to testify even though doctors and the courts say she's brain dead. I'll talk about the legal issues and the overall ethics of the case with my next guests. They're standing by next on NEWS FROM CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to NEWS FROM CNN, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. More now on the case of Terri Schiavo. The legal tug-of- war over the fate of one woman dramatically expands to involve the United States Congress. As we understand it now, a legal representative from Capitol Hill is to meet at any moment with officials in Clearwater, Florida to discuss the subpoenas issued late this morning by a U.S. congressional committee. The courts have cleared the way for the removal of Schiavo's feeding tube as early as 1:00 p.m. Eastern. That's in less than half an hour from now.

But with these subpoenas, including one for Schiavo herself, removing the tube might be construed as contempt of Congress.

Joining us again, Kendall Coffey, the former U.S. attorney in Florida. He's joining us in Miami. And Arthur Caplan is director of the Center for Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania, both frequent guests on our program.

The Associated Press, Kendall, is now saying that that subpoena from the Senate Health Committee has actually been delivered, served, delivered to the hospice. What does that mean at 1:00? Is it almost certainly not going to happen, the feeding tube is going to be removed?

COFFEY: Well, I think it would be very difficult to take a chance. It's a questionable use of a subpoena, but it is still the process of the United States Congress. And for that reason, I think whoever is in a position of having to do the physical act of removing the tubes is going to want some further guidance from some judge somewhere before they take any steps.

BLITZER: Because they're going to be not only concerned about violating a congressional subpoena, but physically, whoever removes that tube could wind up in grave -- in great legal -- in legal danger, isn't that right, Kendall?

COFFEY: Well, exactly. And even if you are convinced you would win that legal battle, because ultimately you think the subpoena's questionable, it's a subpoena that purports to seek testimony from someone who clearly cannot testify, nonetheless, very few people are going to want to face the prospect of a federal criminal prosecution in order to test the principle.

BLITZER: Where does that put the case now, Arthur? Because you've been looking at it, studying this case for many, many years.

CAPLAN: Well, I think these last minute attempts by Congress to pass a law that says we have to take Terri out under habeas corpus grounds, we're going to subpoena her to appear in Washington, we want these things to be stopped by almost any doctor and any means they can think of, it's trouble. First of all, Wolf, it says to the federal -- it says to the state courts of Florida, we don't think you're adequate, we don't care that you've had eleven appeals to your appellate court, four to the supreme court of Florida, we're not going to pay attention; We're going to stick our nose in.

I just left a room full of doctors and said, you know, do you think Bill Frist and Tom DeLay should get involved in end-of-life care decision-making, or do you think should it be a husband and a wife? And they looked at me as if I had, you know, gone off my rocker and said why would Congress be the place to adjudicate the fate of someone like a Terri Schiavo? So I think it's trouble all around.

BLITZER: Well, Arthur, I think it's fair to say that these members of Congress, whether Tom DeLay or Bill Frist, or for that matter the president of the United States himself who issued a very strong statement last night, all of them are saying this is a woman's life that's at stake. Her parents, her brothers, other family members with the exception of the husband, they all say keep her alive right now, do whatever you can, because she can communicate; she is not in this so-called vegetative state that the husband and some doctors have suggested.

CAPLAN: Well, you have to come back, Wolf, and say seven years of litigation has pretty clearly got to be due process and a fair review. That's what has gone on here. The principle at the end of the day is not what legislators think, not what the governor of Florida thinks, not what the president thinks. If she can't speak for herself, her husband gets to step forward and say, I know what she would have wanted.

You know, we just had a debate, Wolf, about the sanctity of marriage, the gay marriage dispute. Many of the people who are now saying I want to get involved, I don't like what the husband is doing, just gave speeches on the House and Senate floor a couple of months ago, saying you have to respect the sanctity of marriage. Well, this is it.

BLITZER: I want to bring Kendall back in a moment. But you know what the parents are saying and the brothers are saying, that this husband has moved on, he's got a new relationship, he's got kids from a new relationship; he just wants this over with, and he's really not, first and foremost, concerned about Terri Schiavo.

CAPLAN: Well, I respect the parents, and I met the brother. I think they love her. I think they're trying hard to do what they see is right. But this husband could have moved on. He could walk from this case. He doesn't have to be involved in it anymore. He keeps saying, I love my wife, it's true I have a new girlfriend, it's true my own life has moved on, but I'm not divorcing her, I know what she would have wanted, I won't abandoned her and I know best; not parents, not brothers and sisters, I was the one she chose to live with, I'm the one who ultimately should have the authority here; and he, if you will, has not walked away from this case, despite, you know, as much pressure as anybody could possibly be under to do so.

BLITZER: All right. We're going to pick up that thought, and I'll bring back Kendall Coffey. But we have to take a quick break. We'll have more with Arthur Caplan and Kendall Coffey on the Terri Schiavo case, a very, very complex difficult issue, right after this break.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The United States Congress wants to see her. They want to evaluate her condition. That is basically why any disabled person would go anywhere, is they want to be able to be out. And certainly to deprive her of that while the Congress is legally ordering her to be there, we believe would be inappropriate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Back now with the latest on the Terri Schiavo case. Our guests, Kendall Coffey, the former U.S. attorney in Florida, and Arthur Caplan, the director of the center of bioethics at the university of Pennsylvania.

Kendall Coffey, I'll start with you. Here's a statement that Congressman Henry Waxman has just released. He's the ranking Democrat on the Government Reform Committee, regarding the subpoenas that his committee has just issued. "These subpoenas," he says, "are a flagrant abuse of power. Congress is turning the Schiavo family's personal tragedy into a national political farce. The committee has no business inserting itself in the middle of an excruciating, private family matter."

Not only this committee, but the Senate Health Committee is also issuing a subpoena ordering her to testify before that committee at the end of the month. The notion of Congress intervening right now, in a matter that the state courts -- in your state of Florida, the state legislature, the governor, they've all been involved in it for seven, eight years. As Arthur Caplan had pointed out repeatedly, what about that states rights versus federal government rights?

COFFEY: Well, that's the giant issue from a legal standpoint, Wolf. There's the human drama between husband and parents. And of course, this political controversy. But from a constitutional standpoint, from the way we are governed, since the founding of republic, the giant issue here is the role of the judiciary versus the role of the legislature. Judges do not tell the president of the United States how to conduct war. Judges don't tell Congress whether or not to raise taxes. By the same token, the legislature does not have a role in telling judges how to decide individual cases where the individual rights of human beings are analyzed, considered, developed, through many hours, sometimes years, of painstaking deliberation.

In this case, I've got to tell you, I read all the opinions involving Terri Schiavo. You will never see a judicial system that gave more compassionate, painstaking care to decide a matter fairly. And that's why I think there is frustration, as we see this conflict now in effect between a judiciary which has been unanimous. State and federals saying this is the result we have, there may be disagreement, but this is the result we have. And the legislature, at the state and national level, that seems bent on somehow involving themselves in how this litigated matter is to be resolved.

BLITZER: Arthur, I want to play for you, and we'll get that ready, a sound byte from Michael Schindler, the brother of Terri Schiavo. Within the past hour he was here on CNN. Rick Sanchez interviewed him. We'll get that ready. But he makes a very powerful case that if average citizens like you and me and others could see her, could see the videotape, the most recent expressions that she's making, the communication she's doing in her own little way, the smile on her face, we would walk away and say, you know what, there's a person in there, there's a person who's alive, and we shouldn't take that life away.

CAPLAN: Well, it's a tough call. But, as Kendall points out, there have been innumerable doctors in that room who've examined her -- four of them came in to assist the trial judge in 2002. Pictures were taken of her brain. It showed irreversible damage, to the point where the doctors stated again and again, she can't think or feel. She has reflexes. She can produce tears. She can grimace, but she can't have any consciousness. To some extent, the family wants to see, hopefully, the brother and the parents, what they wish to see. Some sign that she still might be there.

So I understand why he may want to interpret those kind of reflexes that are left. And that isn't where the medical data has come in again and again. Other point, Wolf, you know, it doesn't really matter whether she's permanently unconscious or not. What the husband can say is look at her, even if she's minimally conscious, she wouldn't want to be that way. She still has the right, she still has the right, not to endure a fate that she wouldn't choose to endure.

BLITZER: All right. Let's hear what the brother of Terri Schiavo said here on CNN, within the past hour. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOBBY SCHINDLER, BROTHER: Well, I think, you know, people would see that we're trying to starve to death a live human being. And I think if people saw, you know, it takes me back to the -- to why they are trying so hard to conceal Terri and why they won't allow any videos of Terri or any pictures. Because they know when the public sees just how alive she is, they are just astonished that we're trying to starve her to death. So I think if we do, if we are able to bring her to Washington, it would just, it would show -- it would show everybody just, just how alive and alert and how responsive Terri is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And he and the parents, Arthur, go further and say if they only let her get some rehabilitation, and work with her a little bit, she could improve, and she might not need that feeding tube down the years, in the years to come.

CAPLAN: Well, again, someone who's been in this state for 17 years, I don't know of any medically documented case where somebody has had a recovery. I've seen a few physicians. A few say there may be something more that could be done with her, but I think most of them have been coming from, if you will, an attempt to support the family on this. No one likes to go and say to anybody, there's no hope. There's no possibility. But again, the medical data collected by the independent physicians back in 2002 said the brain damage here is so severe that there's no possibility of a recovery.

So, Michael Schiavo, the husband, comes back and says, I hear what the family's saying. I don't think she'd want to endure this medical fate. And so it is a right, if you will, just as fundamental as the right not to be killed, she has the right not to take medical treatment that would keep her in a state that she wouldn't choose to be in. That's probably the core of the right to refuse treatment.

BLITZER: We'll see what happens 15 minutes or so from now. That's when the feeding tube was supposed to be removed, exactly 1:00 p.m. Eastern. But now there's been a congressional subpoena that's been served on that hospice in Florida. We'll see what happens next. We'll have continuing coverage here throughout the day, throughout this afternoon, and beyond. Obviously this story not going away. Arthur Caplan, thanks very much for joining us. Kendall Coffey, thanks to you, as well.

Reliving the nightmare from Lebanon. Almost 30 years later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You actually see who was shooting at you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we just heard very heavy caliber machine- gun fire and then it was like roman candles, like fireworks pouring down on us. Bright orange balls of fire, sparks. The flak as bullets hit concrete and metal. And you knew you were about to die.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Our Brent Sadler and Anderson Cooper walking the streets of Beirut, once again, amid the winds of change.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. A grenade exploded outside a house occupied by Syrian workers in Lebanon today. There were no injuries in the second attack against Syrians in two days. Last month's assassination of the former prime minister Rafik Hariri has plunged Lebanon into its worst political crisis since 1989, and the end of the 15-year civil war.

CNN's Anderson Cooper is in Beirut. He talked about the city's well-earned reputation for violence with our veteran correspondent Brent Sadler.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRENT SADLER, CNN BEIRUT BUREAU CHIEF: This week, although sporadic fighting is continuing, the area...

(voice-over): That was back in 1983...

All told, I covered the war here for more than 20 years.

(on camera): There was no more dangerous place a journalist could be during those years. This location is where I nearly bought it.

Yeah, OK, there's the hill there. So we would have been about here.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Could you actually see who was shooting at you?

SADLER: No. We just heard very heavy caliber machine gunfire. And then it was like Roman candles, like fireworks pouring down on us, bright orange balls of fire, sparks falling, the and flak as bullets hit concrete and metal. You knew you were about to die.

COOPER: And after you were shot over here, you ran into this area.

SADLER: That's right. After the cannon fire came down, I hit the deck, saw the rounds coming backwards and forwards going both sides of my body. And then I heard shouting, Brent, Brent, move, move, move!

So, I looked and all my colleagues were in there. So I just -- my cameraman hit me in the wrist, and nearly died here.

COOPER (voice-over): During the war years, whole sections of Beirut were reduced to rubble. Last month, when the former prime minister was blown up and an entire city block was destroyed in the blast, the scene looked all too familiar.

SADLER: The Rafik Hariri assassination is just a mile down there. So you've got Rafik Hariri's massive bomb blast, a turning point of Lebanese history just down there. And just here in front of us, an awful reminder of what happened in that massive car bomb against the U.S. here.

COOPER: So this was the site of the U.S. embassy. SADLER: The images of that day were -- I remember vividly, the collapsed floors of the building, body parts hanging out of some of the floors. It came down like a deck of cards.

The car bomb is a weapon of choice by terrorists really was developed in this country. The car bomb and the truck bomb had a devastating impact, claimed more than 240 American marine lives at the airport. Who could not forget those horrendous images that day.

All of the buildings downtown used to look like this, millions of bullet holes everywhere.

This would be around about here, you can see the archway here, this is what it was like throughout the city. This was the green line area dividing Christian east from Muslim west. This is where some of the worst battles too place.

COOPER: I mean, is change possible here?

SADLER: It has changed, Anderson. Don't forget, these people, the sectarian divide here, were tearing each other's throats out. They hated each other. They murdered each other.

I guess I've learned more than anything else the durability of mankind to withstand some of the most incredible horrors and bloodshed. And also learn that deep divisions between societies, political groups, religious divides cannot be just brought together like that with some neat, magic formula. For policies to expect to change people's mindsets and traditions and culture and history is no overnight job.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Anderson Cooper reporting from Beirut together with our Brent Sadler. We're just getting this in from the associated press down in Florida, in Pinellas Park. The Associated Press reporting that the Pinellas Circuit Court chief judge has blocked the removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube, because the case's presiding judge can't be located to deal with congressional subpoenas. That means the tube is not going to be removed in seven minutes, 1:00 p.m. Eastern, as earlier ordered.

There have been subpoenas that have now been served on the hospice, where 41-year-old Terri Schiavo is living. The service, the subpoenas are calling on her to testify before a U.S. congressional committee. The courts are not going to determine whether or not those subpoenas should be honored, in effect, but in the meantime, the scheduled removal of the feeding tube, 1:00 p.m. Eastern, seven minutes, six minutes from now or so, will not happen until the courts down in Florida consider these congressional subpoenas.

We'll watch this story for you. Our Carol Lin is on the scene. Joe Johns is on Capitol Hill. Much more coverage coming up throughout the afternoon, including on "LIVE FROM" at the top of the hour. We'll take a quick break.

We'll have more news right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Momentarily we're expecting to hear from the parents of Terri Schiavo. They're standing by awaiting a decision from the Florida courts on what will happen involving the feeding tube that was supposed to be removed in 2 1/2 minutes, but now won't be removed because of subpoenas from the U.S. Congress, at least for the time being. We'll watch all of that. I'll be back later today with more on this story, back every weekday, 5:00 p.m. Eastern for "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS." Among other things, though, overcoming baseball's black eye -- steroids. Former Dodgers manager Tommy Lasorda has been around the campaign for decades, and has seen the good and the bad. He'll join me from Los Angeles Dodgers spring training facility in Vero Beach, Florida. We'll talk about the latest crisis in baseball.

Until then, thanks very much for watching news from CNN. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LIVE FROM" with Kyra Phillips and Tony Harris. They're standing by. Much more on the Terri Schiavo case right at the top of the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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