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Missing Boy Scout Found Alive; Search Continues for Natalee Holloway
Aired June 21, 2005 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news, a miracle. Eleven-year- old boy scout Brennan Hawkins went missing in the rugged terrain of the Utah mountains. Tonight, Brennan found alive, the boy rescued just hours ago four long days after disappearing into the nearby wooded terrain.
In a stark dichotomy tonight, the 18-year-old Alabama beauty who vanished during her high school trip to the tiny island of Aruba still missing. Natalee`s family so desperate for answers they`re not getting from the Aruban police. A special team of investigators is flying in to help the now desperate search for Natalee.
And tonight, a violent video game aimed at our children is all about one thing: Killing cops. It`s called "25 to Life."
Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. And I want to thank you for being with us tonight.
The search for 18-year-old Natalee Holloway, desperate. Natalee`s mom taking to the Aruban airwaves begging for help from the locals while a U.S. team of experts makes its way tonight to the island on their own dime to search for the 18-year-old girl. In the meantime, since Aruban police are giving the girl`s family no solid answers, they have hired their own private investigator as a last resort.
And a new video game is set to hit the shelves. It`s called "25 to Life." And in the game, you get rewarded for killing cops. That`s right, our police. Tonight, we say no to "25 to Life."
But first, breaking news, a miracle to report. Eleven-year-old Boy Scout Brennan Hawkins alive with his mom and dad. Last night, we told you about the massive search for Brennan, and his mom took to the airwaves with us last night to help. After Brennan remained missing four long days in the Utah mountains, his mother`s prayers answered.
Tonight, in L.A., psychoanalyst Bethany Marshall; in New York, defense attorney Dino Lombardi; in L.A., defense attorney Debra Opri; in Salt Lake City, Utah, neighbor and member of the search effort for Brennan, Kristie Swain.
But first, to Park City, Utah, and CNN correspondent Ted Rowlands.
Ted, finally, after all the cases you and I have had together, we have something happy to report. Bring me up-to-date, friend.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you said it was a miracle early on there. It was nothing short of unbelievable and wonderful. What a great ending to a story, and for this family and all of the searchers that helped look for Brennan Hawkins.
He went missing Friday night at 5:30 in the rugged terrain in these mountains in Utah. And there was no sign of him at all until about noon today, local time, when an ATV searcher came across him. He was standing on a path about five miles away from where he was last seen.
He was in a very rugged area. He was in an area that they thought was a low-percentage area, in terms of searching, because it was so far away. And they had been there once before, but they went back again.
They had an army of volunteers. And that really helped. It gave them the flexibility to continue the search, and today they found him. He was dehydrated. He said he was cold. They gave him some water. He tonight is with his family in Salt Lake City at children`s hospital there. And he is doing very, very well.
He said that he just wanted to see his mother. And he was able to see his mother. They got the family united out in the wilderness, and they went together to the hospital. And that is where they are tonight. Very happy, as you might imagine, as are all of the hundreds of searchers that who came out here since Brennan was reported missing on Friday.
A lot of cheers as the word came out up here in the mountains. And safe to say, a lot of people happily surprised at a wonderful ending to this story.
GRACE: Ted Rowlands, tell me about this 43-year-old house painter that found little Brennan.
ROWLANDS: Well, it was one of the searchers. And this is one of the people that has dedicated his time to come out here. He was on an ATV. Brennan said that he had seen other searchers come by on horseback, but he did not want to approach the horses.
And his father said that that was one of his worries. He thought that his son was adept to the outdoors but he very shy. And he was fearful that Brennan wouldn`t go and ask for help if he did encounter a stranger. And in fact, that`s what happened, that searchers were going by him and he had told sheriff deputies that he didn`t approach those searchers on horseback for whatever reason because he was scared, and that prolonged this.
But thankfully, they continued looking for him. The family was very hopeful, even this morning, you know. It had gotten to the fourth day. But they continued to be very hopeful and adamant that he wasn`t in the river, adamant that he hadn`t been abducted, that he was out there. And they were right.
GRACE: Ted Rowlands is there on the scene, as you can see behind him.
Kristie Swain is joining us. She is a neighbor and a member of the search. Kristie, I can hardly stand to look at the pictures of this little kid. He reminds me so much of my own little nephews, just absolutely precious. Tell me about the search. Tell me your reaction when you found out Brennan was alive.
KRISTIE SWAIN, NEIGHBOR AND MEMBER OF SEARCH EFFORT: You can only imagine how myself and thousands of other searchers felt. It was a miracle. I know that Brennan must have had angels sent down from heaven. I`m sure many would agree that he was well-protected. We are overjoyed.
GRACE: Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JODY HAWKINS, MOTHER OF SCOUT FOUND TODAY: We have never known men of such integrity, and faith, and honor in our lives. The Bardsley family, we love you. People say that the heavens are closed and God no longer answers prayers. We are here to unequivocally tell you that the heavens are not closed. Prayers are answered, and children come home. We love you. We thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And Jody Hawkins is with her son tonight. I only wish that all of our stories had this type of happy ending.
Back to Kristie Swain. Kristie, I understand that, when he was found, he wanted to drink all the water, eat all the food the searchers had with them, and then he wanted his mom, in that order.
SWAIN: I believe that is correct. I also understand that he wanted to play a video game on somebody`s cell phone. That sounds like a little boy.
GRACE: I know. I didn`t even know my cell phone had a game on it until I let my little nephew make a phone call from it. That didn`t last long. He was immediately playing on a game. I didn`t even know it existed.
Tell me what happened when you first found out Brennan was missing and your reaction when you found out today that he is alive.
SWAIN: I heard about the missing boy on Saturday evening. I got a phone call from our religious leaders, and they asked us to volunteer. They asked mostly for men at first. And I said, "Well, I know Brennan. May I come?" And he said, "Oh, yes, of course."
So I was able to go right to the store, get some food, get some water. My husband and I loaded up our motorcycles. We got gas. We got all prepared. We took a tent, sleeping bags. We were prepared to stay at least one night. And we searched all day Sunday and all day Monday.
GRACE: Elizabeth, could you show the picture of Brennan again? It`s just such a happy thing. No, no, no, not that one. The one of him being found, the video of him being found, Liz, if you could.
Hey, Kristie, tell me about Brennan. What kind of kid is he?
SWAIN: Oh, he`s a very special boy. He was born two months premature. And I know that his family did struggle to keep him here on the Earth. But I think he`s been guarded and guided for these 11 years. He`s a very special boy. We all love him.
GRACE: You know, Kristie, that`s a really important point. I understand that Brennan was born, I guess, nine weeks premature. Throughout the entire pregnancy, his mother thought she was going to miscarry. She couldn`t hold on to the baby. She did.
They had their angel. Brennan was born. And now this, as if he was being snatched away from them, the fear of that all over again. To me that makes this even more of a miracle, Kristie.
GRACE: That is correct. I myself could not believe that this would be the end of Brennan`s life because he was such a special boy. None of us could imagine life without Brennan anymore, without him in the neighborhood, without him at our school.
I work at the playground on the playground duty at the elementary school that he did go to a couple of years ago, saw him playing on the playground. He was a shy boy, kept to himself. But we would talk once in a while, and he`s a special boy.
GRACE: Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EDWARD CLARK, MEDICAL DIRECTOR, PRIMARY CHILDREN`S HOSPITAL: We`re optimistic, and we will, as our team evaluates him and begins treatment, carefully watch him as he starts feeding and starts eating again.
He is talking. He is communicating with us. He`s communicating with his family. They`re right around him. This is quite a remarkable experience for him, obviously, and for all of us who have been watching with baited breath over the last few days.
He`s talking with his parents. And it`s quite a heart-warming scene to see him talking with them, clinging to them. It`s really quite remarkable.
He looks like he`s tired. And he looks like he`s very happy to be where he is. And he`s extraordinarily pleased to have his parents around him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Very quickly, before we go break, back to Ted Rowlands, CNN correspondent. Ted, he got actually over a mountain, a mountain range?
ROWLANDS: Yes, well, it was a summit. And wait until you see it. It`s right behind us here. He walked, basically...
GRACE: Holy moly!
ROWLANDS: ... all across that summit and was found on the other side. And it was an area where they really didn`t search too heavily because they didn`t think that an 11-year-old boy would make his way across that summit. But he did. And that is where they eventually found him.
But amazing that he was able to not only make it over there but make it over there and then remain in relatively good health considering what he`s been through.
GRACE: Well, Ted, you know, you`re a new dad, right?
ROWLANDS: Yes, for the second time.
GRACE: Yes, so I know this story really hit home with you. Ted Rowlands is with us. An incredible story, a happy ending. Brennan, the little 11-year-old boy we told you about -- his mom was with us last night -- has been found alive.
Before we go to Aruba to give you the latest on Natalee Holloway, we`re going to go straight back to Ted Rowlands and Kristie Swain. Please stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF DAVID EDMUNDS, SUMMIT COUNTY, UTAH: He didn`t talk much at all. He just wanted something to eat. He wanted some water. And obviously, in the next couple of days to the next couple of weeks, we`re going to sit down with him, and chat with him, and ask him what exactly happened. But he was in no mood to give us a lot of details. He just wanted something to eat and wanted to see his mom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were hiking the river bottom, continuing the search just like Toby wanted us to do. The sheriff, or the search-and- rescue team leader, Sean (ph), had us hold for a minute. There was some information coming over the radio.
After about 10 minutes, actually, we saw some sheriffs` vehicles and an ambulance go down the road.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and said, "Good or bad?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And a couple minutes later, it was confirmed on the radio. And Toby was on a dead run through the marsh to the sheriff`s vehicle that was waiting. It was sent down the road and was waiting for him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Finally, a happy ending. So many nights we tell you about missing children. Brennan Hawkins, alive. The 11-year-old Boy Scout who went missing for four long days, no food, no water, and the rugged terrain of the Utah mountains while on a Boy Scout event has been found alive. Tonight, he is with his mother and dad.
Welcome back, everybody. Let`s go straight back out to Ted Rowlands. Ted Rowlands, incredible story. Tell me about what happened when it broke through all the volunteers that this boy had been found, and how did he get reunited with his mom and dad?
ROWLANDS: Well, when word started to spread amongst the volunteers -- they had heard it over the radios. And you could tell that people were pleased about it, to say the least.
When we first found out, when a group of volunteers that were on horseback were riding across the stream from where we are now, and they were trying to talk to us, but the water was rushing and we could barely hear them. And they were sort of hooting and hollering. And then they pointed up to a medical flight. It was a helicopter that we hadn`t seen. It was a med-evac helicopter.
And we later learned that they were originally going to transport Brennan via the helicopter, but he was in such good shape that they just put him in an ambulance. And his father was with him while he was transported. And at some point, his mother and the rest of his family joined him.
And as word spread, you know, the elation amongst these hundreds of people -- and, boy, the force that came out here to help out was very impressive. I`ll tell you, the missing person -- especially missing child episodes that we have seen over the years, if the people are getting the help that they need, which was the case here, they are optimizing their chances at finding their loved ones alive.
And that happened here. They mobilized right away. Hundreds of volunteers came out. They got help from the Adam Walsh Foundation. They also got a lot of help locally from Garrett Bardsley`s family. This is the young boy that was missing and has never been found and is presumed dead.
He was less than a year ago, in August of last year, this young boy vanished in the same terrain about ten miles away from here. His father and his family came up here, and they really spearheaded a lot of this effort. They helped the family, and it really went a long way to continuing with this search and continue to hope. And it worked out.
GRACE: And you know, to Kristie Swain, that must have been bittersweet for the Bardsley family. The story that Ted is telling you about, last August, this little boy, 12-years-old, just about five miles as the crow flies from where Brennan went missing this little boy went missing last August. He`s never been found.
And his parents came out there and worked around the clock trying to find Brennan. Brennan found.
I`ve got to ask you, Kristie, tell me about everybody`s reaction. I feel like I found the kid myself. Everyone is so happy here on the set. Tell me how everyone reacted when they found out Brennan was alive.
SWAIN: There were thousands of people on Sunday. I think they had an official number of 2,200, 2,000. But I believe there were at least 3,000 or 4,000, because there were -- the roads were packed with cars. There were people from Florida on vacation here that decided to come up and search.
I was able -- one day they helped take license plates, and names, and phone numbers down. People from Colorado, Wyoming, Utah, Arizona, I can`t believe -- and so thousands of people. And we can`t thank them.
GRACE: Kristie, where were you -- where exactly were you when you found out that Brennan was alive?
SWAIN: I was at home. We had come home Monday evening, got home at 9 o`clock. I was cleaning up. I was putting away all the camping stuff. And my kids turned on the news. And they came running over to me, "Mom, they found him. They think they found him." We were just very thrilled, jumping up and down and crying.
GRACE: So were we.
SWAIN: I can believe it.
GRACE: Well, congratulations. I know you love Brennan very, very much...
SWAIN: Yes, we do. We all do.
GRACE: ... and his family.
And Ted Rowlands, I`m so happy that we finally have a happy ending to one of the many stories that we have covered together. Thank you, friend.
ROWLANDS: Thank you, Nancy.
GRACE: Very quickly to "Trial Tracking." Today, 41 years after the triple homicide of three civil rights workers in Mississippi, Klansman Edgar Ray Killen guilty, three counts manslaughter.
Killen, a former member of the Ku Klux Klan, arranged the shooting deaths of Andrew Goodman, Michael Schwerner and James Chaney. The three in Mississippi investigating the burning of a black church. Killen faces 20 years behind bars, sentencing Thursday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury, find the defendant, Edgar Ray Killen, as to count one, guilty of manslaughter. Count two, we, the jury, find the defendant, Edgar Ray Killen, as to count two, guilty of manslaughter. Count three, we, the jury, find the defendant, Edgar Ray Killen, as to count three, guilty of manslaughter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUBEN TRAPENBERG, ARUBA GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN: I don`t think the investigative team can afford making mistakes at this point, especially with this case, because it has such international attention. And that`s exactly why they`re being so careful and why information is so scarce.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Careful? We`ve gotten one conflicting report after the next from the Aruban government all the way from dog`s blood being confused with Natalee`s blood, to a car not being impounded, to the wrong people being behind bars.
Very quickly, let`s go straight out to Karl Penhaul. He`s standing by in Aruba with all of the latest. Karl, bring us up-to-date, friend.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: One of the interesting things that`s happened today, Nancy, in the course of the afternoon, Beth Twitty -- that`s Natalee`s mom -- met with the Van Der Sloot family, the parents of suspect Joran Van Der Sloot.
Beth was apparently handing out prayer cards in the district where Joran Van Der Sloot`s parents live. And at that point, Judge Van Der Sloot, Paul Van Der Sloot, the man who`s been in for police questioning in the last few days, came out and invited Beth into the house where she went in and she met with Paul and, we understand, Anita, Joran Van Der Sloot`s mother, as well.
We don`t know what they`ve talked about. The family friends that we have talked to didn`t want to tell us that to respect the privacy of the conversation. They did say that Beth came out looking very drained, but this is all part of the emotional drain that this case is having on her. But they do say that she was calm when she came out of that meeting, Nancy.
GRACE: Take a listen to this, Karl.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAREN JANSSEN, ARUBA CHIEF PROSECUTOR: We made our choices. We can`t clarify why we made choices in this, but the investigation is still going. And we needed a lot of answers and we are getting those answers.
PENHAUL: Do you think you`re close to cracking this case?
JANSSEN: I can`t give you guarantees, but we are doing our job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Karl Penhaul, it`s amazing to me that there have been so many inconsistencies and so many false starts from the very beginning of this case.
PENHAUL: Well, that was the chief prosecutor today, Caren Janssen, that we did track down in the course of this afternoon. And in between that first question and the last question, I followed her to her car and was asking, why didn`t they seize all the computers from the Internet cafe? Why didn`t they seize the fourth suspect, Steve Croes`, car? Why didn`t they search the boat that he had access to? I also asked them, have the prosecutors checked the radar records to see if any small boat went out on the night of Natalee`s disappearance?
Caren Janssen turned around to me. She refused to answer any of those questions. And then when she got a little bit fed up with the questions, she turned around and said, "Thank you for your tips" -- Nancy?
GRACE: OK. Well, that`s a good attitude when you`ve got a missing American girl.
Quick break, everybody. When we come back, we`re going to be joined by Natalee`s mother. Also joining us, Tim Miller, he is the director of EquuSearch, leading team of specialists to Aruba to find Natalee.
We at NANCY GRACE want desperately to help solve un-solved homicides, find missing people. Take a look at Carol Guillen. Just 20-years-old, murdered May 18, 2002, Yuba City, California. If you have any information, call Carole Sund Carrington toll-free, 888-813-8389.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE "JUG" TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S STEPFATHER: I feel that the United States is really starting to put some pressure on the people here to try to get an answer because the answer -- I can`t say the total answer is with all the guys there. There may be more people involved. But they definitely know more than they`re saying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us. We`re live in Aruba.
Where is Natalee Holloway? The 18-year-old star student and beauty set to have full scholarship at University of Alabama upon her return from her high school senior trip. Her family is in Aruba, vowing not to leave without their girl, Natalee. And right now, joining us from Aruba is Natalee`s mother, Beth Holloway Twitty. Thank you, ma`am, for being with us.
BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S MOTHER: Thank you for having me, Nancy.
GRACE: Ma`am, do you think you are getting sufficient answers from the Aruban police?
TWITTY: Well, I feel that we are getting there now. And I truly feel we are making progress. I know everyone is as frustrated as -- or no one could be more frustrated than I am, but I know we all share the same frustration. And it doesn`t seem like we are getting anywhere, but I feel that we are getting closer.
GRACE: Ms. Twitty, we are frustrated for you. So many prayers, so many vigils and good hopes and wishes going out to you tonight. Did you meet with the Van Der Sloots today?
TWITTY: Well, I`d just like to clarify what happened. As every day that I`ve been here for the last three weeks, I like to get my face and Natalee`s heart in the community of Aruba. And that`s through distribution of posters and prayer cards. And today, I was just doing as I normally do and thought that I would like to deliver them a prayer card. And a situation presented itself, and I acted upon it. And...
GRACE: And did you speak to them?
TWITTY: Yes, we did have a conversation.
GRACE: What did the Van Der Sloots have to say?
TWITTY: I really don`t want to disclose any of that information at this time.
GRACE: I understand that. We want in no way to jeopardize the investigation at all. You took to the Aruban airwaves tonight. What happened?
TWITTY: Well, I just want the Aruban citizens to know that -- you know, I realize they feel the same pain that we do, that I do, that Natalee`s family feels. We have to resolve this. I mean, it`s tearing their community apart, as well as what it`s doing to us in the United States and Natalee`s friends and family and supporters. So we have to have answers. But I realize we have to work together because I think they can be very instrumental in giving us and the authorities or the FBI some information, just one piece of information that maybe somebody overlooked or that maybe somebody didn`t think would be relevant, but it could be huge. It could be huge in helping us find Natalee.
GRACE: Beth, do you feel that they are doing all they can legally to get some answers?
TWITTY: Yes. I will say yes.
GRACE: Do you believe that the answer to where Natalee is within those four suspects? Do you think they know where she is?
TWITTY: Absolutely, yes, I do. But I couldn`t guess or speculate as to how far out of that group that it could filter to. I`m not sure -- I truly feel there are other individuals involved that could also be very instrumental in helping us solve this case.
GRACE: Beth, you think the answer lies not only with them but with other people. Why? Why do you think they have the answer?
TWITTY: Nancy, I just -- from my gut feeling, from all along, since I arrived shown island at 11:00 PM on May 30, I have felt all along that there are some other individuals that could help us answer some of these questions.
GRACE: Beth, what do you think of this fourth guy, the deejay that takes people out on the boat and they have a party, then he brings the boat back in, the 26-year-old, Steve Croes?
TWITTY: You know, I`ve been pretty opinionated on ones that I felt were involved or had information, and I just really don`t have any thoughts or feelings on this individual. And I`m sure that the FBI and the local authorities have excellent reasons why they have arrested him.
GRACE: What about the other three, Beth?
TWITTY: Oh, I feel they absolutely have every answer that we need.
GRACE: And everybody, she is talking about these three. They are the three guys that escorted Natalee from a restaurant and bar, Carlos and Charlie`s, her last night there on Aruba before she was supposed to leave the next morning. These are the guys she was last seen with.
Beth, what did you think about the two security guards they first arrested?
TWITTY: You know, I just didn`t have any thoughts from -- of course, obviously, I didn`t have any evidence. I didn`t have any inside information. But you know, as I stated maybe a week ago or two weeks ago, as a mother, you`re just -- from a mother`s point of view, I really -- you know, I just didn`t feel that they were the ones who we needed to remain focused on. But if the FBI and local authorities had something I did not know about, I`m certain that they were acting upon it and will continue to act upon it and monitor, if needed be.
GRACE: Well, Beth, I`m a thousand miles away and I`ve got to tell you, it just didn`t make sense at the time -- I agree with you -- to get these two security guards when the other three were the ones last seen with Natalee. And we`re also hearing their stories are inconsistent. So it seems as if your mother`s instinct is right, they can help solve the mystery. Is it true that you have hired your own private investigator to come and make some sense of this?
TWITTY: No. We have not.
GRACE: How about a local lawyer?
TWITTY: Yes, we have retained a local attorney for Natalee.
GRACE: Very quickly, everyone, with us, Natalee`s mother, speaking out tonight. She went on the Aruban airwaves, asking locals to please help find her girl. Somebody has answered. His name is Tim Miller. He`s the director of Equusearch.
Thank you for being with us. What are your intentions, sir?
TIM MILLER, DIR., EQUUSEARCH, TEAM SEARCHING FOR NATALEE IN ARUBA: Well, thank you, Nancy. Natalee`s uncle Paul called me on Sunday. I met with him down at our office, and then I talked to Beth on the phone -- and hi, Beth. I`m looking forward to seeing you real, real soon.
We`re -- organized some things in a very short period of time. Things didn`t come together as fast as we wanted them to. But anyhow, myself and three other guys are going to be flying out tomorrow. The rest of our organization is flying out the next day. We are bringing some sidescan sonar equipment. We`re putting boats in the water with the sidescan sonar equipment. We`re bringing something dogs that we feel (INAUDIBLE) some of the very best search dogs that we have here in the United States. And we`re bringing a lot of experience, a lot of talent over there to continue this search.
We certainly want to work with the authorities over there. We don`t have all of our clearance right now. We need some things that we`re working with the government on now and -- you know, to bring these things over there. But I feel comfortable when we get there, we`re going to all be able to work together. We`re going to start up a new search. We`re going to do some things that haven`t been done. And I`m real interested in the water, also. That`s why we`re bringing this boat that -- I mean, a sidescan sonar scan`s 800 foot deep, very, very wide area, and it`s been very successful in the past, so...
GRACE: It certainly has, Tim. I mean, when you are looking for any object or trace of a clue in the water, sidescan sonar, if you`ve got it, is the way to go. Who operates that for you?
MILLER: We`ve got some volunteers that are doing that. We`re also bringing our own divers. We`re, you know, we`re bringing some stuff. We know they had divers there before that never got in the water.
GRACE: Never got in the water. Very quickly, Tim, where did you get your search dogs?
MILLER: We got them in three different states here. We`ve done many searches here. We`ve worked on many different organizations. We`re bringing the best of the best over there...
GRACE: Thank God!
MILLER: ... and bringing Natalee home.
GRACE: What did you think about the dogs they were using in Aruba?
MILLER: Well, I don`t know a lot about that and everything. And we just want to kind of pick up some pieces. All of us work together. But I`m very confident with our dogs and our equipment and our experience. And we want to come there, and we will be there at this...
MILLER: Hey, Tim, if you don`t mind, do you mind if we talk for just one minute about Laura (ph)?
MILLER: Go ahead.
GRACE: Tim Miller is the director of Equusearch out of Texas. This isn`t just a job for him. His daughter went missing, and he founded this foundation, Equusearch. How did your company start, Tim?
MILLER: Well, you know, they listed Laura as a runaway. We had absolutely no police help. There was no volunteers. We didn`t know what to do. And unfortunately, 17 months later, I was reading in the newspaper where the remains two of females were found in a field. One of them, unfortunately, was Laura. The other one`s not identified.
So I followed other cases. I`ve met with families. I -- you know, one thing led to another, and I just started an organization that we thought we`d be doing two or three searches a year. And in less than five years, this is search number 451. And we`ve been many areas of this country, been into Mexico. We went to Sri Lanka after the tsunami. And we just strictly live off of donations. We didn`t even know how we was going to pull this off.
GRACE: Tim, we`re going to put up the number for donations. Tim Miller, headed to Aruba to help find Natalee.
I`ve only got a few seconds before we go break. Beth Holloway Twitty with us. Beth, response to Tim coming with his searchers.
TWITTY: Oh, I think that not only her family, but I think the local authorities, the FBI, I think everyone is in support of -- you know, in support of this. I mean, that`s what we are moving towards. We`re in a much more collaborative effort, at this point. And I think it can just -- it can only help. I mean, it`s one more resource, and it could be valuable, so...
GRACE: Hey, Elizabeth, as we go break, could you please throw up the address to how to give -- about how to give donations to help Tim Miller`s group go down and look for this girl. Please stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VINDA DESOUSA, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: It`s simply not done in our system. The authorities do not speak directly to the press. They have their spokesperson, and whenever they feel that anything needs to be said, they will -- the spokesperson will do so. It`s a totally different system. It doesn`t mean that there is anything being covered up or hidden.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. Natalee Holloway still missing. Joining us tonight, Natalee`s mother in Aruba. She took to the Aruban airwaves tonight, begging locals to please help find her girl.
Beth, are there less (ph) photos of Natalee posted on the island?
TWITTY: You know, I`d have to check, Nancy. I know we have covered the island with her posters. And of course, that`s what we have done over the last three weeks. SO I hope -- I`m certain there are. But you know, one thing I do know is every single household in Aruba knows who Natalee is. Their siblings know they are. And they are looking for her. I know that.
GRACE: Karl Penhaul, where does the investigation go now? Where are they searching?
PENHAUL: Well, as far as we`re aware, the police and search teams aren`t out specifically right now because what they`re waiting to do is to pinpoint certain locations, depending on tips and leads also that they get from the interrogation. They`ve backed off those initial days, when there was a mass search in all public areas, and now it`s much more pinpoint, Nancy.
GRACE: And very quickly, Ms. Holloway Twitty is with us, Natalee`s mother. Beth, final thoughts?
TWITTY: Well, you know, Nancy, when you said Natalee is still missing, that -- that is so true. And the one thing I want everyone to know is we still need your support. We still need all the friends and families in the United States. We need all the support from the Aruban citizens, from the FBI, from the government, to the local authorities, who are working, I know, around the clock to solve this, and also the support of the media. And I can`t tell you how grateful we are for all of your support and your thoughts and prayers.
GRACE: Beth, we are praying. We are trying. Our thoughts are with you, and anything we can do that you can think of, we`ll do it for you, ma`am.
TWITTY: Thank you so much for having me.
GRACE: Thank you.
Everybody, we are shifting gears. Don`t worry. We`ll take you back to Aruba tomorrow night.
You remember that video game called Grand Theft Auto? Some stores actually refused to carry it because it was so violent? Well, hold on to your hats. Now there`s 25 to Life, and the object is to kill cops. That`s right. You get rewarded on this video game if you kill cops. We called the company who`s putting this thing out. It`s called Idos (ph). We called Idos headquarters in California. They did not return our calls. We tried to call them in Great Britain. No response. In earlier reports, when they were asked to comment on this video game, they always say no comment.
Tonight, in Asheville, North Carolina, trial attorney Jack Thompson. We`re bringing in the rest of our panel tonight. Jack, bring me up to date. What is 25 to Life? Hey, Elizabeth, can you show me 25 to Life while Jack is talking?
And I also want to show everybody one after the next, after the next police officers that lost their life in the line of duty! Now, this is a video game, and you`re seeing at the bottom of this screen, real-life cops that lost their lives trying to protect you and me.
Jack, hit it.
JACK THOMPSON, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Nancy, there are three cops that are dead in Alabama because of Grand Theft Auto by City, two cops and a dispatcher. So we know that these cop-killing games are leading to these killings because that`s what they are, they`re murder simulators. Xbox, of course, which this game will be available on, along with Sony`s Playstation 2 -- you have to ask Bill Gates, What are you thinking? Here`s a philanthropist and a powerful man, the richest man in the world, and yet he`s making available to children around the world on Xbox a cop-killing game.
The military, Nancy, uses these murder simulators, killing simulators...
THOMPSON: ... to break down the inhibition of new recruits to kill. And therefore, of course it`ll have that same effect on teenage civilians. So the reality is that these games are leading to deaths, and in fact, there`s a University of Indiana study that came out three days ago that showed that kids process these games in the part of the brain that leads to copycatting.
GRACE: Incredible! Incredible! I can hardly even focus on what you`re saying, Jack. Elizabeth, please continue showing it because what I`m looking at is the picture of one cop after the next, Dino Lombardi, that we are showing gunned down in the line of duty, Dino!
DINO LOMBARDI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, people kill cops. Video games don`t kill cops.
GRACE: OK. You know what? I knew you`d say that. Debra Opri?
DEBRA OPRI, ATTORNEY FOR JACKSON`S PARENTS: You know, you are really upsetting me, Nancy, because you used the 1st Amendment to destroy Michael Jackson, and you won`t use the 1st Amendment to protect an entertainment company. Does anybody remember Charlie Chaplin in the early days of movies, silent movies? He picked on cops. He attacked cops. He was such a problem to Herbert Hoover and the FBI...
GRACE: OK, you know what?
GRACE: Thank you for bringing up Herbert Hoover and Charlie Chaplin.
OPRI: Can I tell you something?
GRACE: When we come back, we`ll be talking about 25 to Life. You`re seeing a line-up of one cop after the next killed in the line of duty. And this video machine is being marketed and sold. It comes out in August on the shelves of stores in your neighborhood. Look at this.
GRACE: Well, Senator Chuck Schumer is asking the video game 25 to Life be boycotted. It depicts street gang violence, killing cops. This is what your kids will be digesting if you buy this for $49.95. You`re seeing at the bottom of the screen one law officer after the next gunned down in the line of duty.
To Bethany Marshall. You know, the U.S. Supreme Court just ruled in 2003 -- I`ve got it right in front of me -- that video games have nothing to do with violence. Thoughts?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, I`ll tell you what does have do with violence, strong emotional experiences. And when those kids are gaming and they press the button or the mouse and they actually kill somebody and there`s an emotional charge that does rewire the brain. And another thing that affects violence is lack of parental rules. So a question I have with these games are, Where are the parents.
GRACE: You know, Dino Lombardi, I`ve only got one minute left. But in the last Tennessee shooting, where a kid shot two cops and a third person, they had been watching this Grand Theft Auto for days on end. It said life is like a video game. And you`re still telling me this is OK?
LOMBARDI: Well, I`m not saying it`s OK, but I don`t support censoring it.
GRACE: Yes, you are!
LOMBARDI: I`m not saying it`s OK, Nancy.
GRACE: We censor porn...
LOMBARDI: ... and you know I`m not saying it`s OK.
GRACE: ... don`t we? We censor porn. Why would we let there be cop- shooting videos?
LOMBARDI: We have movies where cops are killed, and we have many instances of people who have killed...
GRACE: But kids can get this!
LOMBARDI: ... who we can show they can have watched such movies.
LOMBARDI: It`s not...
GRACE: ... children can get this, Jack Thompson!
LOMBARDI: Yes. The 1st Amendment, people who understand the 1st Amendment know does not protect the right of a company to sell an M-rated game to a child.
GRACE: Jack, Jack, I`ve...
THOMPSON: Children don`t have a 1st Amendment...
GRACE: ... only got 20 seconds. Jack...
GRACE: ... we logged on to buy Grand Theft Auto. We didn`t buy it, but it says, If you`re under 17, click here. That`s all it takes, Jack. Anybody can get this.
THOMPSON: Exactly. And there`s no penalty, except in Illinois...
THOMPSON: ... if you sell...
THOMPSON: ... a game like this to a child.
GRACE: Guys, we`ve run out of time. I want to thank all of my guests tonight, but my biggest thank you, as always, to you for being with us, inviting all of us into your home.
Coming up, headlines from all around the world, Larry on CNN. I`m Nancy Grace, signing off again for tonight. I hope to see you right here tomorrow night, 8:00 o`clock sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.