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Nancy Grace

Nancy Grace for August 15, 2005, CNNHN

Aired August 15, 2005 - 20:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Tonight, breaking news in the case of missing American girl, 18-year-old Natalee Holloway, who disappeared the last night of her senior school trip to Aruba. An Aruban appeals court rules the FBI can stay on the case, and the state`s key witness speaks out.
Good evening, everybody. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, filling in for Nancy Grace. Thanks for being with us tonight.

Dramatic and gruesome developments in the case of a missing beauty. An autopsy is expected to determine if remains found in a wooded area in Duncan, South Carolina, are those of missing 24-year-old Tamika Huston. Huston disappeared in June of 2004. On Friday, 25-year-old Christopher Lamont Hampton, charged with Tamika`s murder, led investigators to the remains.

But first tonight, lots of breaking news in the Natalee Holloway case. Day 78, an Aruban court of appeals says, yes, the FBI can stay involved in the case. But what about further questioning of key suspect Joran Van Der Sloot? And a sworn statement from the state`s chief witness, a gardener. His testimony could send the Kalpoe brothers back to jail with Van Der Sloot.

Tonight in Aruba, managing director and editor of "Diario," Jossy Mansur. And from Coast to Coast Canine Search, Fred Golba. In San Francisco, defense attorney Lisa Wayne. In New York, defense attorney Alex Sanchez. In Boston, former federal prosecutor Wendy Murphy. And in New York, psychotherapist Dr. Robi Ludwig.

But first to Miami and CNN correspondent Susan Candiotti. Susan, lots of developments. What is the very latest?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, let`s see, where do we begin? That`s how things are going tonight. Let`s start, first of all, with that witness. You`ll recall this is a crucial witness who finally came forward today after he was subpoenaed by the judge in this case to come forward and make a sworn statement before the judge. Why before the judge when he already told what he had to say to police? Because under Aruban law, this is a way for the judge overseeing this investigation to, for himself, ascertain the credibility of this particular witness.

This is the gardener who says that he saw a car that would be the car that the three suspects were in on the very same night that Natalee Holloway was reported missing or disappeared. And the timeline is also crucial. He says that he saw this car with the three suspects inside, Joran and the Kalpoe brothers, at about 2:30 in the morning. This would be at about the same time that the suspects already would have said that they left the scene and they were back at home again. So where exactly were they?

Now, there were some interesting moments, at first, after this gardener came forward and told his story because the police said that they thought that he was credible, made a statement to them, but then when they invited him to come in, he disappeared from the scene. And then for a time, authorities said they couldn`t locate him. Then he showed up in Colombia. That`s where he`s from. He was visiting with his family. Well, they found him, and he was back in country this day in Aruba and gave his statement.

How did it go? Well, according to a defense attorney, because they`re allowed to be present, someone who was there, we are told that the questioning lasted for about four hours. And it happened early today. Now, he said that he did see Joran for sure and was able to pick him out from a photo line-up, was also able to identify Deepak from a photo line- up, but not Satish Kalpoe. So he remembers Joran for sure, and two other people, but not two other people, he specifically remembers their faces from being in the vehicle, though he could pick out Deepak from the photo line-up.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Susan, I wanted to jump in and ask you a question because the first thing I thought of when I heard this story originally is, How do you identify somebody when they`re covering their face? Didn`t he say the suspects covered their faces, or the persons of interest or these three young men, whatever you want to call them? So how was he able to identify them then?

CANDIOTTI: What I always heard from my law enforcement sources was that he described them as ducking out of the way or attempting to hide their faces. So when it comes down to that particular detail, Jane, we seem to have differing accounts, depending on whom -- with whom you talk. but he did tell the authorities in this particular -- let`s call it, for all intents and purposes, a deposition, that he recognized the car in particular because of the distinctive rims that it has. And apparently, he`s a car enthusiast and remembered that point specifically.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, he may be a very credible witness, but one of the other things that occurred to me, when I originally heard you report this, is that he said the reason he was out at 2:30 in the morning is that he was asleep, it was hot, he didn`t have air-conditioning, this gardener. And so he decided to get in his car and drive to a friend`s house that does have air-conditioning.

I have to tell you, I`ve been visiting with my mom, and sad to say, she doesn`t have air-conditioning. She believes in cross-ventilation. So I`ve been thinking about this because it was sweaty and it was hot last night.

But Dr. Robi, let me ask you, does someone get up at 2:30 in the morning and get in their car to go to a friend`s house because they have air-conditioning? That struck me right there as very strange.

ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes, there are a lot of odd things about his story. But what he has going for him is that, first of all, the timeline is interesting. And the sense is, is that these boys are lying and covering up. So we`re desperate here. We don`t have any forensics. It`s a possibility. It`s a possibility that he did this. We don`t know anything about him. So he`s more credible than the people he`s talking about, at this point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, let`s listen to Dave Holloway, Natalee`s father. He really brings the central issue of this case home.


DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE`S FATHER: We`ve heard a lot of different rumors. I mean, when we got on the island, you know, we had a lot of information that, you know, she was here or there or whatever. And all those turned out to be false. But you know, we still hold onto the thread that maybe she`s off somewhere. That`s my hope. But the police investigation has always come back and indicated that they`re looking into this as a murder case. But as a father and a parent, you still hold onto a possible miracle.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Natalee`s father holding onto hope. And now we have a very gruesome development out of Venezuela. For the very latest on that, let`s go to Jossy Mansur, managing director of "Diario." I hear you reported this story today in your paper, Jossy, about, God forbid, an arm. It turned up, apparently, somewhere along the coast of Venezuela. Tell us about it.

JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "DIARIO": Well, it is a forearm. It was found in a place called Laspieres (ph) on the coast. It was found by a dog, who picked it up and took it to the owner, his boss. And then the police were called in. They took the arm. They took it to the labs (INAUDIBLE) They made some preliminary tests on it, and then they sent it on to Caracas for further investigation, further analysis.

This photo, a photo that we copied today, that we reproduced in the "Diario," have already come out in another paper in the city of Coro (ph) in the state of Falcon (ph) in Venezuela. They already had a story on this forearm.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Let`s go pack to Susan Candiotti because I understand that you know a little bit about the tides. Could this arm or this body have washed from Aruba to Venezuela? Is that possible with the direction of the tides?

CANDIOTTI: That`s a good question. It is a question that police want to answer. And this is initially how they are seeing it. According to them, and according to experts in that area -- and of course, CNN correspondent Karl Penhaul has done stories about this in his reporting from Aruba on this early on -- the tides there run from east to west, normally, from Aruba, they run from -- from east to west. And so therefore, for that -- if, in fact, let`s say, this could have been Natalee Holloway, for that body part to have, frankly, traveled south would be highly unusual, to say the very least.

Not only that, but police question whether a body part could have, frankly, survived -- again, we don`t know the specifics of what kind of shape this is in -- could have survived that long of a journey and still be in the state in which it`s in -- again, we`re waiting for more detail on that -- to be examined. Are we talking about, you know, a body part that, quite frankly, was together or had disintegrated, deteriorated by the time it reached shore? We don`t know that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Susan, thank you. And a lot of gruesome details, and it`s really unpleasant to discuss. Dr. Robi, what must it be like for the family right now, hearing something as horrific as an arm washing up on shore and having to think about it possibly being their beloved daughter? I can`t even imagine.

LUDWIG: Oh, it`s awful. And as a parent, your mind goes to the worst possible scenario, the darkest place. So there is the fear that this is her arm, the hope that it`s not, and probably some desperation that they can find out some information so they can move on because the state of not knowing is almost worse than knowing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And meanwhile, they try to find Natalee, a lot of legal wrangling going on. And I`d like to go to Wendy Murphy, former federal prosecutor and somebody I love to chat with anyway, to talk to you about this latest development with the FBI. Hurray. A victory. The FBI gets to stay on the case. But haven`t they been hampered? They`re not allowed to ask questions. They can only view the interrogation. The interrogation is done in Dutch, and it requires them use a translator. Sometimes I think this whole investigation is lost in translation, frankly, Wendy.


WENDY MURPHY, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well put, Jane. You know, I think that the role of FBI is important in the sense that they represent our country, they provide some kind of accountability, they`re in the room. I mean, these guys have lawyers in the room. Why not have, in a sense, law enforcement from this country in there minding the store? An awful lot of people are suspicious that there have been hijinks in this case from the get-go. And when you have that level of suspicion, when you have what looks to be a screw-up from day one, it feels better to have the FBI there.

But there`s no question they are not participating. They can`t act as agents of Aruban authorities. And really, having them there, I think, is good in the sense that it keeps the pressure up. And they are absolutely going to be there, saying, if something goes wrong, We watched you. We saw what you just did. And they`re going to hold them accountable if they make any more mistakes.

But I`m not sure their presence is ever going to crack the case or make a big difference. They`re certainly not going to have any better chance at interrogating these guys, who for an awful long time now have maintained their wall of silence, and that is not going to change.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Wendy, the bottom line is, the FBI`s trying to help. So Lisa Wayne, defense attorney, I want to ask you to speak on behalf of all defense attorneys. Why are they trying to keep the FBI out, if they`re innocent, if they`re just trying to help solve the case?

LISA WAYNE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the FBI doesn`t go in to exonerate people, either, so there certainly are people that they point the finger at that aren`t guilty, that haven`t done anything. So the FBI is there to simply police them and to give assurances to this country that somehow, if something`s going wrong, We`re down there to protect that.

But you know, you got to turn it around. If something happened to an Aruban in our country and the Aruban authorities wanted to come in and police what was going on and interfere with our jurisdiction, we`d go crazy about that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa, let me...

WAYNE: And that`s how the Arubans feel about this. It`s the same kind of thing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Susan Candiotti has a thought on this -- Susan.

CANDIOTTI: Well, I wanted to point out that, as I understand it, the last few times that Joran was interrogated, within the last week, the single FBI agent who remains on the island has not been attending. Now, I`ve asked why and I was told that the expertise of the agent who had been there previously had been in an expert in behavioral science, as it were. And this latest person is not. Although that`s not necessarily a hindrance to being there, that might speak volumes, perhaps, though, on how much they think they`re able to accomplish, at this point.

They`re also unable to get transcripts of the daily questioning and interrogations that have been going on. So whatever they get through interpretation and translation, as they`re there, that`s the information they`re getting, unlike, I believe, the relatives of the Holloway family, who are participants, certainly, in this case and are getting sometimes, is my understanding, some of those transcripts through the lawyers.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Susan, it seems like so much red tape, I mean, so many loose threads. It doesn`t really seem like you see it on "CSI: Miami," does it. It`s not -- doesn`t seem to be that level of efficiency, does it.

But you know, I want you to hang there because I want to ask you when we come right back about a fight. Joran Van Der Sloot apparently got into a fight behind bars, and we`re going to get some answers on what happened there in just a moment. Stay with us as we continue to try to solve this mystery of what happened to Natalee Holloway. Stay with us. We`ll be right back.


BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE`S MOTHER: I`ve known as early as probably July the 10th that that beach trip was falling all apart. I mean, holes have been made in that -- you know, that last scenario, where Deepak and Satish say they last left and saw Natalee and Joran. Holes have been made in that as early as July the 10th, even earlier than that, since July the 1st, right before Deepak and Satish Kalpoe were released.




GEORGE "JUG" TWITTY, NATALEE`S STEPFATHER: ... beginning, you know, Beth and I were there that very first night, and I still believe that, of course, Joran is involved, Deepak`s involved, and the father is involved.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Welcome back. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, filling in for Nancy Grace.

Let`s go back to Aruba and Jim Knox. He is with Coast to Coast Canine Search. And where, sir, are you searching now? Why are you searching that particular area? What`s your focus? And perhaps while we talk, Elizabeth (ph), you can throw up the map because that gives us a good understanding of this island.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sir, where are you searching? Where are you searching now on the island of Aruba, actually? We have a map of the island of Aruba, as well.

KNOX: Well, we`ve searched the racquet club area, the fisherman`s hut, up and down north and south of the beach of the fisherman`s hut, and about four locations in the dunes along the area of the lighthouse, the California lighthouse.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Anything? Is anything coming up of interest?

KNOX: We haven`t found anything definitive.


KNOX: We found a large cadaver of a dog, and we got excited for about 15 seconds, but that`s about it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why are you there? Why have you decided to devote your time to helping find Natalee? And how many people do you have with you, as well as canines?

KNOX: Well, Fred and myself -- I`m assisting Fred -- he`s the main tracker, searcher. And he has two very well-trained cadaver dogs that he`s trained, he owns, that work with us and...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to jump in now and go Fred because Fred is also with us. And I want to ask you, Fred, do you get frustrated with the level of information you`re being given by the authorities there? For example, you`re searching the lighthouse area where they found a belt, but they haven`t done, apparently, any DNA testing on the belt to see if it is connected to Joran Van Der Sloot.

FRED GOLBA, COAST TO COAST CANINE SEARCH: I don`t think they`ve had time yet to do the DNA testing. That was just recovered a few days ago. I believe it was Friday night that that was recovered. It`s going to take a little time to get that DNA testing. But where the belt was found, we set up some small grids. We metal-detected it. And we also aerated it, and we ran a dog over it, and we didn`t find any further evidence. But due to some resistance at another area, I`m going to go back and cover that area even more. I`m not giving up on that area. I`m going to cover that area like a fine-toothed comb, no matter what it takes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you mean by resistance? What does that mean? Is that a technical term?

GOLBA: No. Well, you know, we searched the lighthouse. Everything`s kosher. And we go to the back of the racquet club at that pond that was pumped out for so long. We searched the land around that area. We searched the fisherman`s hut. And then we went to the dump on Sunday, and they would not let us go in that dump. So what we did was, we searched the outer perimeter of that dump.

And then Mr. Knox here spent the great part of this morning going to the minister`s office, trying to get permission to go in that dump. We want access to that dump 24/7, 7 days a week, without no permits, and to go in there and have equipment available to us so we can search it. Well, Mr. Knox accomplished that. We got our permission. We changed all of our equipment. For different techniques, you need different equipment. So...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Fred, I get your point, and I herald your work. And yes, I see what you mean by resistance. You got to keep at it to get into the areas that you want to search because she could be there. Thank you so much for taking the time. I know you must be exhausted searching all day. Thank you, sir.

GOLBA: Yes, ma`am.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And stay with us. We might be coming back you to in a minute.

Now to "Trial Tracking." Latoyia Figueroa, 5 months pregnant and the mother of a 7-year-old girl, is still missing. Stephen Pouche, the father of Latoyia`s baby and the last person known to have seen her, denies any involvement in her disappearance. Twenty-eight days later, this case remains a mystery, but the homicide department has now taken over.


LT. FRANK VANORE, PHILADELPHIA POLICE DEPARTMENT: She was last seen Monday, we know. That`s 7/18, Monday, around 3:00 PM in the area of 59 (ph) and Walton. Since then, we`ve done numerous surveys of that area. We`ve gone door to door. The family has surveyed the area and surrounding areas along with us. So what we`re looking for is anyone who thinks they may have seen her not only that Monday, but anytime after that. We`d like to talk to them.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: There is a $10,000 reward for information on Latoyia and $90,000 for information leading to an arrest and conviction. If you have any information at all, please call 215-686-3334. Please help.



BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: As far as this gardener coming forward, I`m really encouraged, Nancy. I mean, I think that`s a huge step forward for us. And you know, maybe it`s taken him a little while to have some assurance and trust in order to come forward and make sure there are no repercussions for him coming forth with this information.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, filling in for Nancy Grace. Let`s go straight back out to Susan Candiotti. Susan, we understand that Joran Van Der Sloot got into some kind of fight behind bars. Tell us about it.

CANDIOTTI: According to a law enforcement source, this actually happened about a couple of weeks ago. And he was in the recreation yard of the prison, playing some kind of sporting activity, when he and another prisoner apparently got into it over who knows what, according to the law enforcement source, and exchanged blows, but no one was hurt. And I asked whether anyone was punished as a result of that. Source did not know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Susan, I want to jump in because I want to get your insight on timeline. If we can throw up a detailed map of Aruba? We understand that Natalee and the two young men, or the three young men, rather, left the bar at about 1:00, maybe 1:30. And at 3:00 AM, one of the young men, Deepak Kalpoe, was doing an instant message. What kind of window of opportunity does that leave for a crime to be committed, where here two-and-a-half months later, we still have not found any evidence of foul play, in terms of remains or what have you?

CANDIOTTI: Well, of course, that`s hard to say because we know that different versions of the story have been told, and so there`s a real question out there as to who do you believe and which version of the story is the right one. We know that they left -- everyone -- there are witnesses that saw them leave the bar at about 1:00 o`clock in the morning. And then we don`t know from there for sure, Did they go to the beach, did they leave her at the beach, did they take her from the beach, did someone stay, did all three of them stay there? But there`s a question as to who was where at what time. But it does appear there may be a window of opportunity, according to law enforcement sources.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Susan, and thank you so much for your insight. You`ve obviously been on top of all the detail on this case.

We at NANCY GRACE want very much to help, in our way, solve unsolved homicides, find missing people. Tonight, take a look at Destiny Welch. Take a good, hard look. Just 16 years old, she disappeared from Covington, Georgia, May 6. Police believe she may be in the Atlanta area. If you have any information at all on Destiny Welch, please call the Newton County sheriff, 770-784-2100, or visit Please help us.


SOPHIA CHOI, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hi there. I`m Sophia Choi with your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."

Iraqi lawmakers now have seven extra days to work on the draft of a new Iraqi constitution. The national assembly missed today`s completion deadline as both sides debated still unresolved issues including federalism and the role of Islam.

A tense situation in Norfolk, Virginia, after main landing gear problems forced a military jet to make an emergency belly landing. The C-2 Greyhound circled the runway for a few hours to burn off some fuel in preparation for the potentially dangerous maneuver.

Then the pilot used his tail hook to make this picture-perfect aircraft carrier-style landing on the runway. The plane was fully loaded with 25 passengers, all of whom got out safely.

A dramatic finish to the rain-delayed PGA Championship on the fairway of the 18th hole. Phil Mickelson tapped in a final putt to birdie the hole and earn a one-stroke victory.

That`s the news for now. I`m Sophia Choi.


DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S FATHER: We don`t know the whole story. All we really know for a fact is they left Carlos and Charlie`s. After that, it`s a lot of speculation and a lot of fill-in-the-blanks.

If you and I were involved in something, and then I come to you and ask you to make up a story about, "We dropped her off at the Holiday Inn," wouldn`t you ask questions of why, if you were not involved in something, why would you make up the story?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, filling in for Nancy Grace. New leads, new developments in the Natalee Holloway case. But still very few concrete answers.

Let`s go Lisa Wayne, defense attorney. One of the other big developments in this case today, Lisa, is the defense attorneys want authorities to stop questioning Joran Van Der Sloot, saying they have questioned him over and over again.

The problem is, he`s given apparently 22, at least, different accounts of what went on that night. So why are they saying, "No more questions"?

WAYNE: Well, you know, we`ve highlighted that there are 22 statements that are different, but we don`t know how different they are and if the differences are material.

And the bottom line is, do you want a coerced confession out of this guy? Do you want to beat it out of him and make him admit to something that he didn`t do? I mean, if he were in this country, there`s no way this kid would have stayed in custody this long based upon these kind of accusations.

It just would not happen. So at one point, you`ve got to say, "Enough is enough." If something happened, let it come out the way that it should in a reliable, credible way.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Former prosecutor Wendy Murphy. As the old song says, is enough enough right now?

MURPHY: You know, this is -- Lisa is right. This is the most irritating thing to some extent about the way our legal system works, that you really can`t take these guys heads and whack them together and make them tell the truth.

I mean, look, we got how many billion of people on the planet, right? We know that one of three men killed this woman, probably, and we can`t solve this crime because, as Lisa says, it`s just not polite to keep asking questions? Are you kidding me?

The beauty of the inquisitorial legal system in Aruba, unlike the adversarial system in this country, is that you can in a sense whack these guys around a lot with interrogation technique and you can do things that we would never tolerate constitutionally in this country.

The problem is, if you don`t do it before they go get help from daddy dearest and all of the lawyers -- what do they got now, 12, 13 -- if you don`t interrogate effectively immediately, right at soon as you know that these guys were suspects -- and they knew within hours -- you lose a lot of time. You lose the opportunity, because then they make a mess of things.

They point the finger at each other. This cross-finger-pointing problem is going to be the death knell of this case. "I blame Deepak," he blames Satish, Satish blames Joran. How do you ever, ever win a case like that? It`s built-in reasonable doubt. It makes me want to rip my hair out.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Alex Sanchez, defense attorney. Are these three young men playing games? Are they playing head games with us?

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think they`re trying to protect their own interests. And they`re going to say what they have to say to point the fingers at other people.

But I just wanted to go over one point, if I may, regarding that the arm -- they found this arm off Venezuela and as -- you know, look, wasn`t there some information at the beginning of this case that possibly somebody -- they had taken her body on a boat and maybe they dropped the body off somewhere in an area in the ocean and that arm could have floated towards Venezuela?

So I think that`s quite possible that that could have happened. And I`m certain they`re in the process of conducting some type of DNA tests on that arm.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, anything, I suppose, is possible. But at this point, we really don`t have anything more than a completely mysterious arm. And it`s very gruesome. And as we`ve already mentioned, it`s very disturbing for the family probably to even consider.

You know, there`s so many developments in this case. And one of the most interesting ones has sort of been overlooked over the weekend. On Friday, we heard, Susan Candiotti, that they were going to try some kind of mysterious new strategy on Joran Van Der Sloot to try to get him to crack.

All of this has been lost with the developments of the discovery of an arm, et cetera. But what was that strategy going to be?

CANDIOTTI: Well, there was no questioning over the weekend. In fact, he wasn`t questioned on Friday either. We don`t know when the interrogation will resume.

My source tells me that there might possibly be a new strategy used, but, of course, naturally, if they revealed what that was, they don`t feel it would do much good. So at this point, we don`t know.

More details on that, but, presumably, they might try to use this as the week goes on, as the questioning continues.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s listen to more of the family, what they have to say.


GEORGE "JUG" TWITTY, STEPFATHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: If the story still stood, the night that I confronted the judge, so-called judge, and the son, and Deepak, and they sit there and told me that, "Yes, here is what we did. We took her to the Holiday Inn. Come with me. We`ll show you. We`ll talk to the guards."

Of course, the guards never saw them. It`s not on the video. They say that for nine days before they arrested them, that was the story. And then all of a sudden they changed the story. So why did they do that? The whole world knows that.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So very difficult, obviously, questioning Joran Van Der Sloot and trying to get the straight answer, what really happened that night in Aruba, the last night of the senior school trip.

Now, Ellie, we were talking about this new strategy. Can they do a truth serum? Can they do -- can they do any kind of high-tech kind of test on them?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, in Aruba, polygraphs aren`t allowed. So we don`t have that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. No polygraphs.

What do you think of that, Dr. Robi Ludwig? I mean, what`s the new strategy? No polygraphs allowed, no truth serum, not that I believe in truth serum, obviously...

LUDWIG: Well, if he`s a true sociopath, polygraphs don`t really work. Because what they do is they detect a nervousness in the body.

So for people that are sociopaths and feel that they can create their own rules, their bodies don`t react the way yours and mine might react. So that might not tell us anything anyway.

But I would imagine that they would put the pressure on. And if I were an interrogator, I would pretend that somebody told me something that might frighten him, although he had his father and the benefit of his father`s wisdom and knowledge of the legal system that he is relying on, that`s really creating a problem in this case.


And, Wendy Murphy, obviously, the clock still ticking if they don`t come up with some new evidence against Joran Van Der Sloot, by, I think it`s September 4th, he walks free.

Kind of a quirky question: Could it be that try something different, let him go free, and see what he does? Because, if he were out there, he might have a couple of drinks, and talk to somebody, and brag or show that he is innocent? Who knows?

MURPHY: Yes, Jane, really good point. I mean, the guy is certainly arrogant. But he appears also to have a drinking issue, a gambling issue. And he`s the kind of guy who`s stupid enough to slip up in his arrogance. And that`s what you hope for.

But between now and when he does walk, if he does walk, I think they should hold him and squeeze him, and squeeze the Kalpoes in whatever way they can get way with.

Look, September 4th is the next deadline. I think they`ll probably hold him past that, because they need additional evidence. And I think they`ve got that, with this behavioral stuff they`ve been doing and so on.

But at the end of September, if they can`t charge him because they really think they can`t prove that case against him, he will walk free. And maybe he`ll be like the Skakel case in Connecticut with Martha Moxley. You know, Michael and Tommy Skakel were the suspects for the longest time.

They let them go. And Michael started confessing all over the place under the influence and not. And that`s what ultimately got him. It could take ten or 15 years before this guy is dumb enough to start confessing to somebody. But it may well be that that`s how this case gets solved.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, with the whole world watching this case and trying to come up with answers, what would you do, Wendy? I mean, obviously, I think people are going to have to start thinking a little bit outside the box in this case to try to break the logjam, because, despite all the new developments, it does seem to be a logjam.

MURPHY: You know, I don`t know. This is a sort of case where, because the only suspects are sticking together like glue, you know that they hold the keys.

And what I fear, Jane, is that, even if some forensic evidence pops up, if it doesn`t tell a damn clear story about which of these three did it, they`re slick enough now -- they`ve lawyered up, they`ve had months to get their mess together.

And how do you say to a prosecutor, "Please go after Joran," when you know there`s just as much evidence implicating Deepak? If they clam up and stick together like glue, and they`re smart enough to know that that can work to protect all of them from prosecution, I think the only thing you can do is hope that they do walk around free, get drunk some day, start confessing, and make the kind of mistakes that stupid criminals make.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think you`re absolutely right, Wendy. I think we all suffer a little bit from that "CSI" effect. We want everything solved and we want it solved in an hour. And that`s not how real life works.

Stay with us. Lots more to come.


BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: Paulus Van Der Sloot stated that he picked them up at 4:00 a.m. on May the 30th. "Them," we don`t know who they were.

But then, even as far as into June 16th and June 17th, Mr. Van Der Sloot was still stating this 4:00 a.m. pickup. Only until around -- maybe it was when he was picked up or arrested did it change it to 11:00 p.m. that I had knowledge of. So there`s another critical element that has been -- that he`s lied about.




TAMIKA HUSTON, MISSING GIRL: I sing because I`m happy, and I sing because I`m free.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Beautiful girl, Tamika Huston singing. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, filling in for Nancy Grace.

Tonight, remains found in a wooded area in Duncan, South Carolina, could be those of that young woman, missing 24-year-old Tamika Huston. Tamika went missing more than a year ago. The man charged with her murder, 25-year-old Christopher Lamont Hampton, led investigators Friday to what could be Tamika`s remains.

Tonight in Washington, Tom Morris, reporter for "America`s Most Wanted." In Miami, Florida, Tamika`s aunt, Rebkah Howard.

But first, on the phone from Spartanburg, South Carolina, reporter for the "Spartanburg Herald-Journal," Alex Morrison. He got an exclusive jailhouse interview with the suspect.

Quite a scoop. What did you learn?

ALEX MORRISON, REPORTER, "SPARTANBURG HERALD-JOURNAL": Well, Jane, today, Christopher Hampton told me that he accidentally killed Tamika Huston.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where did it happen, in his apartment where they found all the blood?

MORRISON: Yes, ma`am.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And so then what?

MORRISON: Then he put her in a friend`s car and drove her to the woods.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did he seem remorseful, or was he cold and chilling as he told you this, essentially confessing to you?

MORRISON: Well, at times he seemed very calm. And at times, he seemed flustered and remorseful.

When he was filling out the form to give consent of his interview, he asked me very casually if it was August 15th. However, when he was talking about burying Ms. Huston, he seemed genuinely disturbed.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did he say why he did this horrific act?

MORRISON: The two were in a fight or an argument over money, he said.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, good work. Kudos in getting that exclusive.

Let`s go now to Tom Morris of "America`s Most Wanted." They`ve been following this story extensively. What`s really shocking to me is the extensive criminal record that this man has and the fact that they came up with another allegation. They charged him with something else, another really terrible crime in the course of investigating this.

Tell us about that.

TOM MORRIS, "AMERICA` MOST WANTED": Well, he was already being held on parole violation for bank robbery. We don`t know exactly what his relationship with Tamika was. But he was being held on that from last summer.

And we got a tip that came into our hot line when we aired this in May that a person who saw our show had actually been in the apartment with Christopher Hampton and had seen him cleaning up something that he said was Kool-Aid.

That tipster was able to tell Detective Steve Lamb, who was in our studio that night, about that, and that helped corroborate the blood evidence they had already found in the apartment.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, I`d like to go now to a woman -- this hits very, very close to her and her family, Rebkah Howard.

Rebkah, I know that this is an awful, awful time for you. I know this is extraordinarily traumatic. And I want to thank you for just taking the time to talk to us tonight.

This is the last thing the family wanted to hear. They didn`t want this ending. Is there any comfort at all in at least knowing what ultimately happened to this girl you loved so much?

REBKAH HOWARD, AUNT OF TAMIKA HUSTON: No, I would say on Friday there was a certain sense of relief that he had confessed and that he had led investigators to what we believe is Tamika`s remains.

You know, but that sense of relief quickly gave way to just, I mean, devastation. Our family is just reeling from this. We have a very close- knit Ethiopian family who gathered, who, you know, flew, drove right away down to South Carolina to meet, you know, with investigators, to be led to where Tamika was. And it frankly was just devastating.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s take a moment to just honor Tamika`s life. I know she was a very talented young woman. We see her there singing. Let`s hear for a second.

All right. Tell us, what was she like?

HOWARD: Tamika was just such a sweet girl. I mean, I know she`s my niece, but, I mean, I challenge you to really go and talk to any of her friends, anyone she came in contact with. I mean, you`d hear the same thing over and over again.

And she just had a tremendous spirit about her, you know, cared for just about anyone, you know, she came in contact with.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, Rebkah, I understand that you have thanked the detectives who worked on this case. And is it true that they were absolutely extraordinary in tracing down the leads?

One of the big breaks is that they found a mysterious set of keys in her car and they managed to trace it to an apartment complex, find the locksmith, get into the house, find that this person had moved, but they did a test of the carpeting. They found blood on the carpeting, and that`s how they caught this suspect. What would you say to the detectives in this case?

HOWARD: I mean, I just thank them from the bottom of my heart and on behalf of my family. I really believe that these men and women, you know, led by investigator Steve Lamb, just put an extraordinary amount of time and effort into this case.

I mean, it goes beyond -- I understand that it`s their job to do so. But, you know, I truly, honestly believe that they went above the call of duty there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I understand that they actually went door-to-door trying this key on every single apartment and finally, at the very last apartment, the key fit. And then they traced it back to the former tenant, found him, and this suspect told them, "Oh, well, somebody vandalized my apartment and threw a lot of ketchup and hot sauce," and then they did the testing and came up with Tamika`s blood.

HOWARD: Yes. Like, clearly, I`ve said, he`s obviously not the brightest individual. I mean, he gave police numerous stories about what occurred in that apartment.

I mean, I say -- I mean, he probably had over a dozen interviews with them. And each time, his story was different. It wasn`t until, you know, just this Friday, literally five minutes before there was going to be a press conference announcing that he had been arrested, that he stood up and told investigators, "Let`s go," you know, "I`m going take you to where Tamika is."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And family just holding together tonight, just trying to find strength in each other?

HOWARD: Yes, absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Thank you so much for joining us.

HOWARD: Thanks.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Our condolences.

HOWARD: Thank you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: To tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin." FBI and law enforcement across the country on the lookout for Israel Bello, wanted in connection with the shooting deaths of two people outside of a Birmingham nightclub.

Bello, 35, about 5`7", 155 pounds, dark brown hair, hazel eyes. He is armed and he is dangerous. If you have any information at all on Israel Bello, please contact the FBI. The number`s on your screen, 205-326-6166.

Local news next for some of you, but we will be right back. And remember, tomorrow, coverage of the NFL star on trial for gambling, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern on Court TV`s "Closing Arguments."

Please stay with us as we remember a hero, Sergeant Brahim Jeffcoat, 25, a real American hero.



TONY FISHER, SPARTANBURG PUBLIC SAFETY DEPARTMENT: They updated it previously. Yes, his criminal background, it indicated violence in his past in which he had been arrested for previously, particularly an armed robbery.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Welcome back. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell filling in for Nancy Grace. The suspect in the murder of Tamika Huston led police right to the skeletal remains believed to be hers.

Wendy Murphy, former federal prosecutor, why do you think he did that? Did they cut some kind of a deal, considering that he faces these other charges and he has a rap sheet?

MURPHY: You know, it`s a very good question, Jane. You have to wonder whether he cut a deal. And it certainly would make sense, given his willingness to take them to the body after holding out for so long. He knew they were looking for her. He knew what he did, and he didn`t come forward sooner.

And the unfortunate thing is, if he did cut a deal where he`s, in a sense, not going it pay a fair price for such a horrific crime, that would be terrible, just unfortunate. But I guess it did bring some solace to this family.

He`s a slick guy. He`s a smart criminal. He doesn`t go willy-nilly into these deals. It`s not like he has a conscience. My God, it`s pretty clear he doesn`t have a conscience. So I don`t think he fessed up because he feels bad. I suspect he did get a deal.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Wendy, let me jump in here, because Tamika`s aunt, Rebkah, has some thoughts on that. Apparently, she some information -- Rebkah?

HOWARD: Absolutely. There was no deal cut. I just met with the solicitor of Spartanburg County last night. There was no deal cut. He literally led police to Tamika`s remains without being promised a thing. He has no leverage whatsoever.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why do you think he did it then?

HOWARD: You know, I think that police were brilliant. They created a scenario for him, leading up to this press conference that we had on Friday. He believed, honestly, I think, that the eyes of the world were going to be looking at him.

He was going to be paraded before the national media. And obviously, that was something that scared him. At 3:55, literally five minutes before this press conference was to begin, he stood up and said, "Let`s go." And they asked him, "To jail?" He said, "No, to her." And they went.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, it`s a tragic case. Some closure, if there`s really any meaning to that word. A lot of heartache. Our thoughts and prayers are with Tamika`s family tonight.

I would like to thank all the guests on the show tonight for their insights. And thanks to all of you at home for keeping track of these important cases right along with us.

Coming up, headlines from around the world. And Larry King on CNN. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell filling in for Nancy Grace. I hope to see you here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, have a great night.