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New Details in Search for Tara Grinstead; Talk Show Host Arrested for Wife`s Murder
Aired November 08, 2005 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, stunning new details revealed by police in the search for a Georgia beauty queen, Tara Grinstead. Will a latex glove being tested at this moment be the clue that cracks the case of the missing beauty queen turned teacher? And tonight, breaking news. Well known, popular, high-profile radio talk show host arrested, pulled out of his show for allegedly spiking his wife`s Gatorade with antifreeze.
Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. First, breaking news out of Tennessee, a deadly shooting as gunfire erupts at a high school in the middle of classes. Police say a student opened fire on a principal and two vice principals, killing one, critically wounding another. The school in lockdown, the 15- year-old student in custody tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. BILL BREDESDEN (R), TENNESSEE: Schools have got to be safe places. And somehow or another, we failed to make that happen in this school. And we need to go back and revisit just anything (INAUDIBLE) see if there`s anything we could have done to weather this tragedy. But the first order of business is prayers for those who were shot and taking care of the children in that school.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And breaking news out of Missouri, a radio star arrested while on air. The charge? Death by poison, mixing anti-freeze in his wife`s Gatorade, causing an incredibly painful death.
But first tonight, investigators reveal scientific testing on a latex glove found in the front yard of a missing high school teacher and beauty queen, Tara Grinstead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF DONNIE YOUGHN, IRWIN COUNTY: We`re still -- we`re following up on calls we get and stuff. We`re not leaving anything unattended, no matter how small. We`re still checking out everything that anybody calls in for us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I want to go straight out to the reporter with "The Macon Telegraph," Tim Sturrock. Tim, bring us up to date. Go ahead, Tim.
TIM STURROCK, "MACON TELEGRAPH": Nancy, they`ve ended the land search of Irwin County. They`re going to -- they`ll search, if there`s a -- if they get a tip, but the land search of the 358 square miles of Irwin County ended today.
GRACE: Did you say 358 square miles?
STURROCK: Yes. Yes.
STURROCK: And it`s not the largest county in Georgia. It`s a pretty average-sized county.
GRACE: And what can you tell me tonight, Tim, about a latex glove reportedly found on day one by the police in her front yard?
STURROCK: Well, Ocilla police chief Billy Hancock told me that they found a latex glove outside of her house shortly after she was reported missing. They handed it over to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation for testing. They`re going to see if they can find any fingerprints. They`re going to do some DNA testing, and that could take weeks. At this point, they don`t really know if it had anything to do with this or not.
GRACE: Now, I find it very interesting -- with us is Tim Sturrock with "The Macon Telegraph" -- Tim, that it keeps being referred to as a latex glove, a latex glove. My first question was, you mean a rubber glove you wash dishes with, or a latex glove that you perform surgery with? Which one is it, Tim?
STURROCK: It was more the type -- it wasn`t a dishwashing glove. It was more the type glove that you`d be familiar with at, like, a doctor`s office.
GRACE: Let me ask you this, Tim. What can you tell me about a T- shirt allegedly similar to one that Tara Grinstead slept in, an oversized T-shirt, being found in a wooded area?
STURROCK: Well, all I`ve heard about clothes is they found several pieces of clothes -- several pieces of clothes during their search. They turned them all over to testing, but Billy Hancock, the police chief in Ocilla, told me today that they hadn`t found any indication that belonged to Tara Grinstead as of yet.
GRACE: Well, what was on the T-shirt?
STURROCK: I don`t know anything about the specifics of the pieces of clothing. I know they found different pieces, some shirts, some women`s shirts, but...
GRACE: Hold on. Ellie, what was on the T-shirt?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe it said Irwin County women`s softball, or something similar to that.
GRACE: Irwin County women`s softball. Well, she`s in Irwin County, right, Tim?
STURROCK: That`s correct.
GRACE: Now, didn`t some of her friends say she slept in a shirt similar to this?
STURROCK: I haven`t talked to any of her friends about what she leapt in.
GRACE: Let me ask you this. What can you tell me about a necklace being found on the floor of her home?
STURROCK: I know they found a lamp that had been knocked over. I know they found an alarm clock underneath the bed.
GRACE: You know what? I`m going to go to the sister of Tara Grinstead. Anita Gattis is with us tonight. Anita, what do you make of this latex glove being found in her front yard?
ANITA GATTIS, SISTER OF MISSING WOMAN: Well, I was actually told about the glove from day one. It`s a type that paramedics, police officers, that type of glove that they routinely keep. So I`ve been very, very anxious to hear some results from this testing on this because this is not something that we just have around our homes.
GRACE: Well, I got to tell you something, Anita. I`ve never woken up with a latex glove laying outside my door or in the front yard...
GATTIS: Absolutely. Absolutely.
GRACE: ... or in the backyard or in the driveway. And at first, my question was, was it the type you wash dishes with? But that`s commonly called a rubber glove. This is a latex glove.
Now, very quickly, let me go out to Dr. Kathy Reichs. She is a forensic anthropologist. Dr. Reichs, if they can identify a person of interest or a suspect, and if he wore that latex glove, certainly, they`ll be able to get fingerprints from the inside of the glove, correct?
KATHY REICHS, FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST: Well, it`s possible, but it`s not necessarily a foregone conclusion. There`s often powder on the inside of those gloves. Therefore, the chances of getting a good print, you know, may be compromised.
They can -- those gloves are pretty common. You find them in all kinds of analytical laboratories and medical facilities and crime labs, for example. But you can take a latex glove, you can do elemental analysis on what that`s made up of, because each batch is a little bit different. And you can actually tie that glove back to a specific brand and a specific batch of those gloves. So that could tie a perpetrator to a specific location.
GRACE: Well, Doctor, that`s very interesting. I just covered a case, Dr. Dirk Greineder, convicted for murdering his wife, used latex gloves. He also had -- had used trash bags out of his home. And as you were saying, you can match them back to the lot and the batch. And if you can do that, Doctor, what do we learn? If you can match this latex glove back to a specific lot and batch, what does that tell us?
REICHS: Well, if you can narrow that to the location that it came from, a specific purchase that -- and I`m not privy to all of that information -- but you could then tie it to a locality, a specific medical lab, and then you can narrow down, if you don`t have a person of interest. If you do have a person of interest, it`s one more piece in the puzzle that might link him to that place via the glove.
GRACE: Everyone, we are talking about a missing beauty queen turned high school teacher, Tara Grinstead. She`s been missing for several weeks now. And we are just learning -- police have revealed today to the public, as a matter of fact, a latex glove found in her front yard.
And Dr. Reichs, you say they`re very common, but you went on to say in medical situations, in laboratories. I don`t think they`re commonly found in your front yard.
REICHS: Not generally found in your front yard.
GRACE: Not generally found in the front yard. Hey, Doctor, you were also mentioning something very interesting. You said that powder is sometimes on the inside. Explain.
REICHS: Well, it`s just to make it more easy to slip it on, to get into the glove and get out of the glove.
GRACE: Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GATTIS: I think about her at night, you know, is she`s somewhere where it`s dry, is she having something to eat, something to drink? I worry about, you know, her essentials. I`m very anxious to have her back home, but I`m not worried that we`ve not found her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I want to go straight back out to Tara Grinstead`s sister, joining us everyone. Breaking news regarding evidence just revealed today to the public, a latex glove found in the front yard of a missing beauty queen, Tara Grinstead.
Anita, what have you heard regarding this T-shirt that was found in a wooded area?
GATTIS: It was not exactly a T-shirt. It was more of a jersey. And Tara got one every year from the softball team. I went back through her bedroom to see if she had one exactly as this was described, and she did not have one in her home. So I`m very anxious to see if this possibly could be hers.
GRACE: You know, that`s very interesting because if it belonged to her, of course, you wouldn`t expect to find -- expect it to be in the home. Now, what do you mean she got one every year?
GATTIS: She just always -- she supported all forms of athletics, any extracurricular activities at Irwin County High School, and she just got either a T-shirt or a jersey every year.
GRACE: Joining us tonight also is Tara Grinstead`s neighbor. His name is Joe Portier. Joe, thank you for being with us. Did you notice anything out of the ordinary the evening Tara went missing?
JOE PORTIER, NEIGHBOR OF MISSING WOMAN: We did not, Nancy. We were gone out of town most of the day, and when we got back in, her car was here, and no lights on. We didn`t really think a lot about it at that time.
GRACE: Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All the guys in the school like Miss Tara. She is beautiful. She is somebody everybody wants to be like, so that might have something to do with it.
BOBBY CONNOR, PRINCIPAL OF IRWIN CO. HIGH SCHOOL: You`ve got some kids that really don`t know how to respond to this, very stoic. And our counselors have done a wonderful job talking with some of these students and explaining as best they can as to what -- what`s going on and why.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back to Tara Grinstead`s neighbor. Joe Portier is with us. Joe, could you tell whether she was at home in the evenings or not by looking at her house? I mean, could you see her car? Did you see her lights go on or off?
PORTIER: Nancy, we couldn`t see her car from our house. It was in the carport. But her signal to us that she was home safely was her bedroom light. There`s a little lamp light by her bedside table. She would turn it on, and that was kind of a signal to my wife that she was home and safe. My wife would often go there several times a night if she was -- she went to school on Monday night in Tifton, on Tuesday night in Waycross, and she`d be getting in 9:00, 9:30, and my wife would go to that window several times until she saw that light and knew that Tara was home safely.
GRACE: You know, Anita -- everyone, this is Tara`s sister -- that`s a hard life. I know. I`ve been there, where you work all day and you go to school at night. What was she studying, Anita?
GATTIS: She had already gotten her master`s degree in history. She`d gotten a specialist degree in administration, and she was about to start her doctoral program to get a Ph.D. in history and administration. That`s how driven and determined that she was. So that should tell everyone she did not just drop off the face of the earth.
GRACE: No, she didn`t. She certainly did not. And I realize -- was she taking classes at Valdosta?
GATTIS: That was the home school, but they had a campus in Tifton. They also had one in Waycross. So she traveled three nights a week...
GATTIS: ... to three different campuses to further her education. Absolutely.
GATTIS: Well, Anita, as proud of her as I am, as a trial lawyer, it just opens up my mind to so many other possibilities as to who could be responsible for this. I agree with you, she didn`t just go off on her own and hasn`t called you, hasn`t written you, nothing. Somebody is guilty of foul play in this case.
So now you`re bringing up a whole new boatload of possibilities, Anita, the fact that she was going to various campuses. She was driving at night, I`m sure alone. You know what`s interesting to me, Anita, something you said the other night. I`m the same way, never go anywhere without your cell phone. I have it even when I go jogging. Now, isn`t it true that Tara always took her cell phone?
GATTIS: She did. She never left home without it. When she walked her dog in the afternoon, she always had her cell phone with her. It was like her third arm. She never left anywhere without that cell phone.
GRACE: And it makes perfect sense with all of this traveling. Anita, another question about this necklace. This is also a new detail, a necklace found on the floor of her home. What was the necklace, and where was it found?
GATTIS: This was the necklace that she wore on Saturday night, the last time she was seen. It was laying on the floor. She had helped many girls get ready for a beauty pageant that afternoon, so she had various pieces of jewelry laying around. Interesting thing that we`ve just found yesterday, we cannot find the earrings she had on that night.
GRACE: What were they?
GATTIS: They were described to me by Missy Davis -- and that`s one of the last people that saw Tara -- as a chandelier-type earring. And Missy and I went through her jewelry yesterday for about an hour, and we cannot find the earrings.
GRACE: You know, Anita, that is a tiny, a subtle but important detail in this case. Now, the necklace that was found on the floor -- let me just ask you a couple of questions. What room was it found?
GATTIS: It was in her bedroom.
GRACE: OK. And that`s the same place the radio clock was found on the floor, that sat by her bed, and the lamp was cracked. Was that the same room where she charged up her cell phone?
GATTIS: Exactly. The cell phone was in the charger right by the broken lamp.
GRACE: OK. So then was that necklace one she wore that evening, or does anybody know?
GATTIS: That is exactly the one she wore. We`ve identified it. Yes, it was the necklace she had on Saturday evening.
GRACE: You know, it`s amazing to me. It sounds like she was right there in the bedroom, changing clothes from coming home, taking off her jewelry, and something went wrong, something that made her take her pocketbook with her keys in her purse. You said the doors were locked, everything was in order except that lamp and that radio clock, right?
GATTIS: That`s correct, yes.
GRACE: Everybody, we are trying to make sense of a missing beauty queen turned teacher. Tara Grinstead is missing. Today, important facts finally revealed by the police. We now know her necklace found on the floor of her bedroom. We now know her earrings missing. We now know, intriguingly, a latex glove found in her front yard.
Quick break, everyone. But as we go to break, more violence in Iraq tonight as a second lawyer on former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein`s defense team gunned down today, Baghdad. This the second defense lawyer on the trial killed in less than one month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All the guys in the school like Miss Tara. She is beautiful. She is somebody everybody wants to be like. So that might have something to do with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: They are searching by air. They are searching by foot, they are searching by horseback for Tara Grinstead, a beauty queen turned high school teacher. Now development released to the press just today, a latex glove found in the front yard of the missing school teacher.
Straight out to "Macon Telegraph" reporter Tim Sturrock. Are police interviewing any of the men that had been in Tara`s life?
STURROCK: I know they have. I know they have. They interviewed her boyfriend of six years. But they`ve also been interviewing friends, family, colleagues, just trying to get as much information as they can about her life.
GRACE: Tim, Tim, let me ask you about men. You said they were together six years. Who broke up with who?
STURROCK: A friend of hers told me that it was mutual.
GRACE: Anita Gattis, who broke up with who? It`s never mutual.
GATTIS: You`re right about that. Tara ended the relationship.
GRACE: OK. You know, that`s important. And I`m not saying this guy is a suspect, a person of interest, but there`s -- there`s -- you`ve also got a high school student that got -- didn`t he get a TRO on him for stalking her, have to leave her alone?
GATTIS: Right. He did try to break into her home...
GRACE: Oh, good Lord!
GATTIS: ... and was arrested that evening.
GRACE: Has he been questioned?
GATTIS: Yes, ma`am, he has been.
GRACE: Does he still believe those two have a relationship?
GATTIS: Well, I -- I think maybe he is still saying that.
GRACE: Yes, at 30 yards or more! That`s kind of tough to have a relationship.
Very quickly, to Tara`s neighbor, Joe Portier. You know, a lot of people think it`s outlandish that you would know when someone was home in your neighborhood, but that`s not true. In areas like that, like where I came from, you know your neighbors` habits. You know what outside lights they have on, can tell if they`re home or not from the long day at work. So that night, you saw nothing unusual. What about her bedroom light?
PORTIER: Nancy, it never did come on that night, which wasn`t unusual. On the weekends, she had a lot of studying to do. She had her papers to grade for the classes that she taught at the high school. So not seeing the light was nothing unusual on the weekend.
GRACE: Very quickly, to forensic anthropologist Dr. Kathy Reichs. Police confirmed to us that they are testing articles of clothing found in searches for Tara. What tests do you think they`re conducting?
REICHS: Well, they`re going to look for anything that would indicate it belonged to Tara. They`re going to look for -- possibly, if you have perspiration, you could get DNA. You might have particles of skin. You might have hairs. You might have fibers that have come from her home. They`re going to look for anything on the clothing that`s going to be an indicator that it`s linked to her in some way.
GRACE: And to Anita Gattis, Tara`s sister. I don`t like this about the latex glove. I don`t like it.
GATTIS: I don`t, either. I do not, either. My husband is a physician and I`m the lab manager, and I wear latex gloves every day at work, but you do not pick them up at the grocery store. It`s not something that normal people have.
GRACE: Yes, maybe at a medical supply.
Hey, Elizabeth (ph), can you show me Tara`s home one more time, that picture we have of her home? The car is parked in there. I just want to see one thing, especially -- check out this yard. It is immaculate -- the backyard, everything just perfect. She would have picked this up in the morning if she had seen a latex glove lying out in the yard.
And Anita Gattis, I just want to point out the Web site for your sister is Findtara.com, F-I-N-D-T-A-R-A.com. The reward now up to $80,000. Findtara.com. We will stay on it. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GABE GRINSTEAD, TARA`S NEPHEW: It`s tough knowing that someone in your family is missing. You see all this stuff on the news about other people missing, and then it`s really strange just to see someone of your own family`s gone missing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: James Keown is a radio talk show host in Jefferson City, Missouri. This morning, police called on him at the radio station and arrested him as a fugitive from justice. Authorities here in Massachusetts say he murdered his wife, Julie, when the two of them lived here in Waltham. He did it, they say, by systematically poisoning her with a combination of Gatorade and antifreeze.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: She felt sick. She kept drinking her Gatorade to make her feel better. Little did she know, say prosecutors. Straight out to a reporter with "The Daily News Tribune," Jennifer Roy. Jennifer, bring us up to date.
JENNIFER ROY, "DAILY NEWS TRIBUNE": Well, right now, James Keown is believed to be on his way back to Massachusetts with the authorities. He will be arraigned in Middlesex Superior Court on Thursday on charges that he, like you said, systematically poisoned his wife by putting ethylene glycol in her Gatorade from May to September, while they were living in Waltham.
GRACE: Whew! What is the suspected motive?
ROY: Financial. They say that he had drained the couple`s bank account, and that Julie had absolutely no idea that he had done that.
GRACE: But Jennifer, on what? What, did he drive a Porsche, wear a mink stole?
ROY: You know, they don`t know. And that is one of the questions that I asked. I said, Well, you know, did he have a drug problem? Did they live an extravagant lifestyle? And they don`t know. The way he was living in Missouri now, as a talk show host, is he was -- he was living -- you know, buying dinners, you know, kind of out every night, but nothing that would lead them to believe that -- you know, why did they have no money, especially when his wife had absolutely no idea. She did have a $250,000 life insurance policy that he was never able to collect on because her death was under investigation.
GRACE: Stay with us, everybody.
SOPHIA CHOI, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hi there. I`m Sophia Choi. And here`s your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."
Well, the polls are now closed in New Jersey, where votes are being counted in a hotly contested race for governor. And a similar situation in Virginia, where not enough precincts have reported for CNN`s election unit to call.
And victims of last month`s earthquake in northern Pakistan are now facing a new danger: cold weather. Aid agencies are racing to provide tents and supplies to the Himalayas before winter arrives. Experts say, without adequate shelter and sanitation, thousands more could die.
In Arizona, a flight instructor and student pilot are being treated now for injuries after their plane crashed at a city park in Mesa. Authorities say the student was practicing touch-and-goes at a local airport when a problem developed. The instructor took over and attempted a landing in the middle of a parking lot.
That`s the news for now. I`m Sophia Choi. Now back to NANCY GRACE.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A shocking day here in Jefferson City. I`m filling in for James Keown, who was arrested on this show yesterday, charged with the murder of his wife in September 2004.
He is in Cole County Jail. We just had his mother on the phone. She indicated that he will probably be sent to Boston at some point in the coming days. She`s been told when, but didn`t want to share that with us. I don`t blame her.
Lots of phone calls lighting up, people wanting to talk about this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is from KLIK Radio today, reacting to the arrest of a very popular radio host. Why? Allegedly poisoning his wife to death in her Gatorade.
I spoke to the defendant`s mother tonight. She stands by her son. She says he is not guilty. And she`s not convinced her daughter-in-law was poisoned.
I want to go straight back out to Jennifer Roy, reporter with the "Daily News Tribune." Jennifer, were they living beyond their means? I mean, the life insurance policy was only a buck and a half, $250,000?
ROY: Right. They were not. Neighbors actually said that, in the about nine months they were living on School Avenue in Waltham, they had only seen them maybe three or four times and that they kept to themselves.
GRACE: I want to go straight out now to Dr. Warner Spitz, the medical examiner joining us from Madison Heights. Dr. Spitz, the ultimate death by poisoning in this manner, very, very painful.
WARNER SPITZ, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, it`s not pleasant at all. It causes death by kidney failure. People stop being able to go to the bathroom. And it causes other manifestations, such as respiratory and cerebral, as well.
GRACE: Doctor, explain to me the ethylene glycol, which, to my understanding, is practically -- not the only -- but practically the only ingredient in antifreeze. That could not be tasted in Gatorade? And what effect does it have on the body?
SPITZ: It can be tasted. But it`s a very sweet taste. So if you put it in a soda, or in something like Gatorade, I can understand that the person drinking it, unless you put huge amounts in it, in which case it would be just super sweet. But otherwise, it would be just a sweetened drink.
GRACE: Is it your belief -- I don`t know that you`ve actually had a swig of it -- but is it your belief that the antifreeze is sweet to the taste?
SPITZ: Yes, I know it is. I know that it is. I haven`t drunk it, of course, but I have tasted it. And it is a sweet substance.
GRACE: You know, Doctor, what effect does this have on the kidney? And how can it be identified in autopsy?
Dr. Warner Spitz is with us, medical examiner joining us from Madison Heights. It took them 14 months to isolate the cause of death, Doctor.
SPITZ: No. I disagree with that. It may be that they did not think of this possibility and were looking elsewhere. But once you think of it, it is very easy to make a diagnosis.
And I`ll tell you how: The person drinks it, it goes in to the stomach. It goes to the bloodstream. It becomes changed in the system to oxalic acid, which then combines with calcium in the body. And crystals of calcium oxalate settle in the kidney and in other organs. And they appear in urine.
GRACE: And, in autopsy, you can actually see the crystals, correct?
SPITZ: Oh, in the urine, the urine is packed with this. So, either you see it in the urine, if the patient is alive, or in the autopsy you get a piece of kidney, and you look in the microscope, and you see the crystals.
GRACE: You know, Doctor, I think you`re absolutely correct. The idea that the woman died of antifreeze, ethylene glycol, poisoning would not be the doctor`s first assumption. They would probably test her for everything else.
But, you know, apparently, if this guy is, in fact, guilty -- and he hasn`t gone to trial yet -- he apparently has not been watching enough Court TV and Headline News, or he would have heard of State vs. Lynn Turner.
Roll it, Elizabeth.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury, find the defendant, Julia Lynn Womack Turner, guilty of malice murder, as alleged in count one of the indictment, so rendered this 14th day of May 2004.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Prosecutors say she poisoned, with ethylene glycol, antifreeze, not only a boyfriend, but a husband, too. And no one knew it - - as the doctor just told us, it`s not your first diagnosis -- until the two were exhumed and the crystals he was describing still existed.
I want to go now to a very special guest. Joining us is James Keown`s attorney, Adam Kretowicz.
Sir, welcome. And what is your client`s response to the charges?
ADAM KRETOWICZ, ATTORNEY FOR JAMES KEOWN: Good evening, Nancy. Thank you for having me on this evening.
GRACE: Yes, sir. What is your client`s response to the charges?
KRETOWICZ: Absolutely untrue. And I believe, as we heard this doctor say, when you suggested 14 months of investigation...
GRACE: What about that?
KRETOWICZ: ... the day she died, there was an indication that she had this in her system. And it`s that -- when that day, when they had an indication that this was in her system, didn`t take 14 months to conclude. There`s no new information that they have now that they haven`t had 12 months ago.
GRACE: Well, sir, are you saying that you don`t contest the fact that she was poisoned by ethylene glycol?
KRETOWICZ: I haven`t seen the pathology report. But I have been told by the district attorney`s office that this was found in her system very early on, around September of `04.
GRACE: So what difference does that make to you, trial strategy-wise, when they discovered the antifreeze?
KRETOWICZ: Well, I`m just responding to, actually, your explanation about 14 months. Similarly, when you suggested $250,000, is that the motive? And what kind of extravagant life were they living? Nancy...
GRACE: Well, let me ask you this: How were they living? Who was supporting the family?
KRETOWICZ: They were supporting each other. They were both working. They had debts that normally we would all have, student loans, some credit card debts. They had more assets than debts, $250,000, if that`s the best they can come up with.
I believe that this is a situation -- I`m very disappointed that it was -- there was a newscast and a news review today in Cambridge over this situation. I`m disappointed for this reason: If you know nothing about the case, all of a sudden, he`s been accused -- as you say, only allegation -- and they`re saying that he was in debt, that he tried to collect the $250, this and that, and yet...
KRETOWICZ: ... and yet this is a case where it needs to be tried in court...
GRACE: Well, sir...
KRETOWICZ: ... and not in the media.
GRACE: ... I have complete faith that it will be tried in court.
GRACE: But, speaking of this and that, let me ask you about this and that. Did your client tell his wife he was admitted to Harvard?
KRETOWICZ: No, not true.
GRACE: Then why did they move there?
KRETOWICZ: Why did the Keown`s move to Massachusetts?
KRETOWICZ: For a variety of reasons.
GRACE: Such as?
KRETOWICZ: First of all, they honeymooned in Cape Cod after they got married. They`re both from the Midwest. They enjoyed Massachusetts, loved it a lot.
While in the Midwest, they did not have any children. They felt that they were being constantly surrounded and asked questions about, when are they going to have children? They needed a break from the family. They just wanted...
GRACE: So they moved completely away from her friends and family because they didn`t want anybody to ask them about children? OK. I think you better work on that.
KRETOWICZ: Well, Nancy, that`s part of it. The other reason is that he had a friend who he had worked for in Chicago that was now working at a radio station in Boston, and he was offered a job here to work there, as well. There was many reasons why they moved here. There was no reason...
GRACE: OK, I got it, I got it.
To Jennifer Roy with the "Daily News Tribune," what`s, to your knowledge, the reason they moved?
ROY: Well, from all I know is what the district attorney told me. And she basically claims that James Keown and Julie moved to the city because he, you know, claimed he had gotten in to Harvard Business School, he wanted to take some classes to further his career, help out the family more. And it is their belief that it was simply to get her away.
GRACE: Jennifer, did he have a job?
ROY: He did. He was working for a company called the Learning Exchange. And as far as I know, he had convinced his company to work from home, here in Boston remotely, while he was supposedly taking classes.
GRACE: OK. You know, Adam, you got a problem. Because it`s out there that he told people he went to Harvard. Now, isn`t it true he did go to some continuing education class, which he flunked?
KRETOWICZ: I don`t know if he flunked. He did take a continuing education class at Harvard, which he dropped out of because of how much work he had.
Now, in terms of telling people that he was going to Harvard Business School, it`s my understanding that both he and his wife made those assertions to family members to help lessen the impact of moving away from such a close family.
GRACE: To Jim Moret, chief correspondent with "Inside Edition," was he arrested in the thick of his radio show?
JIM MORET, CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": He was arrested during a break. And, with regard to moving to Boston, I talked to one of his colleagues at the radio station. And he said that James was fond of wearing a Harvard sweatshirt and he would often tell -- he told some people that he received a master`s degree from Harvard, told others he received a business degree.
And he also had varying accounts of how his wife died. He told some people she had kidney failure, others cancer, and others leukemia. So he seems to have some sort of a problem with the truth.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I admire James. I listened to his show everyday. I have a cleaning business, so I listen while I clean. I think he`s an intelligent man. And I do not believe he would kill someone for $250,000.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, just wanted to comment earlier about why the police, why the U.S. marshals would have arrested him on the air. James should not be allowed any extra favors just because he was on the air. I mean, this was a murder suspect. And the reason you want to get him in that surrounding is because you`re more likely to take him off-guard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: High profile, popular, a radio talk show star, now facing charges of murder, death by poisoning. Alleged victim: his own wife. I want to go straight back out to James Keown`s attorney, Adam Kretowicz.
Sir, have you talked to him today?
KRETOWICZ: I have.
GRACE: Now, how do you know he`s not guilty? Hello?
KRETOWICZ: I`m sorry?
GRACE: How do you know he`s not guilty? You said he`s not guilty. How do you know he`s not guilty? Somebody poisoned her.
KRETOWICZ: I think you`re right. But I`m sure he`s not guilty.
GRACE: I know. Why? Why do you say that? What did he tell you to make you think that?
KRETOWICZ: There`s no motive. They were deeply in love. They shared an awful lot together. Their expenses were minimal. Their accounts were modest.
GRACE: What did he tell you -- what did he tell you to make you believe he`s not guilty?
KRETOWICZ: "I did not do it."
GRACE: He told you he didn`t do it. OK. I`m convinced.
Straight out to Lauren Howard, psychologist. You know, Lauren, I`ve prosecuted a murder over $10, a murder over $10. So when somebody says to me, "$250,000 is not motive for murder," I don`t know what planet they`re from, but $250,000 is a lot of money, Lauren.
LAUREN HOWARD, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, it`s all relative. And $250,000 can be quite a lot of money if you have some sort of reason that you need cash.
HOWARD: Well, I mean, it`s hard for me to believe -- this is a guy who`s kind of out and about. He`s a liar. His lies are aggrandizing lies. Even what he does is -- you know, he`s out there, outgoing, out, loud, on TV, on the radio, do you know?
I mean he`s an outward personality. And this, it was a very slow, calculated, planned action. So, you know, he needed the money for something. There has to -- the motive is not just the money. It`s some other grandiosity.
GRACE: Joining us now, a former neighbor of the Keown`s, Deborah Singleton.
Welcome, ma`am. Thank you for being with us. Deborah, what happened the day that she was taken to the hospital?
DEBORAH SINGLETON, FORMER NEIGHBOR OF THE KEOWNS: Well, the day that she was taken to the hospital, the detectives started to observe the house. And I believe that they had some suspicion about the circumstances leading to her hospitalization.
GRACE: Already they had a suspicion. What was James Keown like as a person?
SINGLETON: Very friendly, very personable, very bubbly, just seemed very nice.
GRACE: Did you think he was going to Harvard, too?
SINGLETON: I suspected it, because he had a big SUV and he had the Harvard emblem on the bumper.
GRACE: Ouch. OK.
Alex Sanchez, as a defense lawyer, what`s your strategy here? Clearly, she was not sipping ethylene glycol for 14 months on her own, all right?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, I`ll tell you, Nancy, it sounds to me like, you know, you have the fellow convicted already.
GRACE: That`s your answer, that I have him convicted?
SANCHEZ: Well, what interests me -- yes. What`s interests me...
GRACE: I don`t think I`m going to get on the jury.
SANCHEZ: ... what interests me is, what evidence is linking him to the offense? I haven`t heard of any evidence linking him to the offense. Is there some bottles that he had stored in his house? Did he have...
GRACE: You know what? That`s a really good point.
SANCHEZ: Are there rags that contain this ethylene glycol? Are there cups hidden underneath the counter where he cooks food? Are there empty Gatorade bottles filled with all this...
GRACE: OK, I get it. I get it. I get it.
SANCHEZ: So what`s the evidence? If there`s no evidence, he`s walking.
GRACE: I get it.
Very quickly to our reporter, Jennifer Roy, what does link him, if anything, other than someone that knew her, that was familiar with her, had to give -- had to systematically poison her? It had to be someone that comes in contact with her all the time.
ROY: The only answer that I have is, you know, what the district attorney is saying. And basically what she is saying is that, when Julie Keown`s family and friends came to visit, she felt fine. When they weren`t around is when she didn`t feel well, when she had the nausea, when she had the vomiting, and when she was not 100 percent.
GRACE: When she was with him.
Jim Moret, what do we know about it? What connects him to the antifreeze?
MORET: Well, we just know that her parents suspected, when she was taken to the hospital in September of `04 and slipped into a coma, they suspected she was being poisoned.
And clearly, Nancy, you know that the spouse is usually the first person that`s looked at. And here, apparently, police were not able to eliminate him as a suspect. He clearly had the ability or the proximity to poison her; whether he had the motive, who knows?
GRACE: Well, straight back to Richard Herman. Alex Sanchez`s issue, the fact is, we don`t have a clear link to him yet.
Very quickly to tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin." Law enforcement on the lookout for this man, Jerome Handy, wanted in connection with a 2001 New York shooting of 26-year-old Edward Warren.
Handy is 45, 5`7", 174 pounds, red crew cut, brown eyes. If you have info, call police, 646-610-5000.
Local news next for some of you. But we`ll all be right back. And remember, live coverage of the 11-year-old Carlie Brucia`s murder trial, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern, Court TV.
Please stay with us as we remember tonight Specialist Timothy Brown, just 23, an American hero.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTHA COAKLEY, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: James Keown, whose date of birth is May 17, 1974, was arrested for the first-degree murder of his wife, Julie Oldag Keown, who at 31 years of age died on September 4, 2004.
Authorities believe that for a period of time in Massachusetts, James Keown had slowly been poisoning his wife with ethylene glycol, which is the main ingredient in antifreeze, commonly used in automobiles.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Nausea, vomiting, rash, kidney failure, coma. According to prosecutors, it was all because of a lethal dose of antifreeze, ethylene glycol.
Very quickly to Jim Moret, "Inside Edition" chief correspondent. Now, unless the A.P., Associated Press, is making it all up, this guy told his employer in Missouri he had been accepted at Harvard Business School and moved his wife there away from her friends and family. What more can you tell us?
MORET: Well, I talked to a colleague of his in Missouri, who worked with James. And he said that everybody was, frankly, very shocked when he was arrested. He described him as very outgoing, friendly, charismatic. He said he never saw him lash out in anger.
Although, as you`ve indicated, this is a situation that would require a lot of planning, and was rather shocked at the arrest.
GRACE: To Lauren Lake, veteran defense attorney. What`s your defense, Lauren?
LAUREN LAKE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, there are a whole bunch of people out here beefing up their resumes and having their educational stories a little skewed.
And so I would just have to say that there are tons of pathological liars and people with things on their resume that don`t really add up. And it doesn`t necessarily mean they poison their wives.
There`s not enough evidence linking this man to this crime. And from what I`ve heard on this show, both the prosecution and the defense need to get the case together.
GRACE: You know what? You`re right about that. Both you and Alex Sanchez hitting on a key ingredient: They`ve got to link him to the poisoning. There`s no doubt she was poisoned.
GRACE: But that missing link. That`s what they`ve got to find.
LAKE: And $250,000 and their bank account being a little bit on "E," that`s not going to cut it.
GRACE: I don`t know about you, but I think that`s pretty good motive for murder.
Thank you to all of my guests. But our biggest thank you, to you, for inviting us in to your homes.
Tomorrow, complete coverage of the Pam Vitale murder suspect plea in court. Coming up, headlines from all around the world, Larry on CNN. I`m Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. Hope to see you right here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern.
And until then, good night, friend.