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Nancy Grace

Accused Duke Lacrosse Players Out on Bail. New Developments in the Natalee Holloway Case

Aired April 19, 2006 - 20:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Tonight, the Duke rape investigation and search for a third lacrosse player prosecutors say took part in the alleged multiple rape of a 27-year-old student-turned-stripper. Tonight, with both players indicted out on bail, police searched their dorm rooms. And how soon may the same secret grand jury hand down indictment number three?
Also tonight, a major break in the Natalee Holloway missing girl case. The 19-year-old Aruban man arrested in connection with Natalee`s disappearance, tonight named a suspect. We go live to Aruba right here on NANCY GRACE.

Good evening, everybody. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell. sitting in tonight for Nancy Grace. Tonight, live to Aruba for breaking news in the Natalee Holloway missing teen mystery. The 19-year-old man arrested over the weekend in connection with the 18-year-old`s disappearance nearly a year ago is now named a suspect.

But first tonight, the Duke lacrosse team rape investigation widens. Prosecutors seek a third player they hope to link to the alleged rape of a 27-year-old student-turned-stripper. And developing tonight, police searched the dorm rooms of Collin Finnerty and Reade Seligmann after their arrest and release.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s obviously terrified. I mean, this has been an awful, awful thing for these families to deal with.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rape is a heinous crime. It wounds the soul. You are never the same again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a lot of stuff we don`t know about this case. We don`t know all the evidence. We don`t know who that third person will be. We don`t know what the evidence would be pertaining to that third person.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Those of us who have never experienced any form of sexual assault or rape can only imagine what the (INAUDIBLE) and is apparently enduring.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of this depends on the credibility of the witnesses. There`s much more that we don`t know than we do know.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: By the way, Nancy Grace is somewhere in the air tonight after giving a victims` rights speech. Nancy was delayed for hours because of a security breach at Atlanta airport, so I`m pinch-hitting for her.

Now for the latest in the Duke rape investigation, we go to Kevin Miller with WPTF radio in Raleigh, North Carolina. What`s the very latest, Kevin?

KEVIN MILLER, WPTF RADIO: Well, the latest right now is we`re waiting for the second DNA test to come back. The prosecutor and most defense officials believe that they should be back by the end of this week or early next week. Now, if that should happen and this does help the prosecution`s case in getting the third suspect, you can expect the grand jury to hear the additional evidence May 1, which will be the next time that they convene in Durham.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Kevin, what`s happening with the seeking of a third suspect and the imminent arrest that we`ve been hearing about, considering that they`re doing some new DNA test and they haven`t gotten the results back? A lot of people are wondering, Why they are arresting people before they get the DNA tests back? It makes good sense to ask that question.

MILLER: That`s a good point. The reason why they did not get a third indictment is, many believe, that the district attorney did go for that, he did not have enough with the grand jury. Therefore`s, is seeking additional evidence with this second DNA test. If that comes back and proves his theory and gives him enough evidence, then you could see a third indictment, but not until May 1.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Don Clark, former head of the FBI Houston bureau, what do you make of this criticism that, Hey, DA in this case is jumping the gun, that there`s evidence that hasn`t come back yet, let`s wait to see the evidence, especially since it`s DNA evidence, and especially since the first test did not show any DNA evidence that would link these alleged perpetrators to this alleged victim?

DON CLARK, FORMER HEAD OF HOUSTON FBI BUREAU: Well, you know, Jane, I`ve been a proponent of absent exigent circumstances here, somebody running, disappearing or whatever, let`s not rush into this indictment. Let`s wait a little bit. Let`s get all of the evidence that we can because, keep in mind, as you well know, that once the indictment takes place, then the clock starts in terms of trial settings and so forth, which means that the law enforcement investigators now really have to work hard to try and put a case together.

And coming from the federal system, I like to see a case really tidy, put together with all the evidence that we`ve got before we take it to the grand jury, so when it`s indicted, I feel pretty comfortable that we`re going to win the case in court.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, prosecutor Eleanor Dixon, I`m sure you have another perspective on this. I mean, these families are saying, Look, these kids` lives are being destroyed. Hold off. Wait for all the evidence to come in. But the other side is, Evidence could be destroyed, if you don`t make an arrest.

ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: You`re exactly right. And remember, DNA is just a piece of the puzzle. I`m sure there`s other evidence that the prosecutor hasn`t made public, certainly not to the media. So he`s looking at different pieces of the puzzle, presenting it to the grand jury. And remember, the grand jury could have said, No, we`re not going to indict it. But the grand jury said yes. They issued an indictment, so apparently, there`s enough evidence for them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Kevin Miller, what was the basis of the arrest of these two young men? Was it photo identification?

MILLER: That`s what we`re led to believe, yes, photo identification by the accuser/victim. She, in fact, it was revealed by district attorney Mike Nifong a week ago at a form at North Carolina Central University, which is where the victim/accuser goes to college -- that she did identify two of her attackers, the people that she said attacked her, about two weeks ago.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So if it`s a photo ID, why couldn`t she have identified the third one immediately?

MILLER: That`s a good question, and it really goes back to district attorney Mike Nifong, who has a stellar reputation in Durham. I know you that you covered the Mike Peterson (ph) case. You and I have talked before on this. He has a stellar reputation, but a lot was made of the DNA. He did over 70 interviews. He told me personally on the air at WPTF that DNA is bullet-proof. You don`t get a false positive. Then when the DNA didn`t come back the way that the prosecutors thought it would, you have a second DNA test.

However, what that did here in Durham and throughout the triangle give the momentum to the defense, which is what we`ve been hearing non-stop since the district attorney Mike Nifong has not spoken to the press in about three or four weeks.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, let`s hear from an attorney for one of the suspects, Collin Finnerty. And he talks about this young man`s emotional state.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s obviously terrified. I mean, this has been an awful, awful thing for these families to deal with. And I mean, next -- this is a good, tight, decent family, and next to one of them dying, this is the worst thing they`ll ever go through, probably.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Kevin, I want to come back to you for just a second because young man does have a past. He has an incident that occurred in the D.C. area that is rather disturbing, if it`s true. And that isn`t resolved, either. Tell us about that.

MILLER: It`s been widely reported that he did get into an altercation in D.C. It was an assault charge. He, in fact, did plead out, do 25 hours of community service. And in that, the victim in the case said that he was called gay and beaten up by Mr. Finnerty and a friends of his.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`d like to go right now to Sylvie Charles. She is a Duke University student, I understand, and a friend of at least one of these two gentlemen. Are you with us, Sylvie?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tell us a little bit about these young men, the young men you know, and what their character is like.

CHARLES: I know Reade Seligmann very well. He is the boyfriend of one of my best friends. And for the time I`ve known Reade, which is a little over a year, he has been nothing but wonderful to Brooke (ph), my best friend, and all of her friends. He is nothing but respectful to women. He is so respectful to all of us. All of us feel -- all of Brooke`s friends feel comfortable going up to him for whatever reason, just asking for help, asking for anything. He`s a wonderful, wonderful human being.

For example, in the case of this trouble, he did not room a hall of lacrosse players when he chose his room this year because he wanted to stay out of trouble. He wanted a quiet area. He is so unselfish. His girlfriend, Brooke, has treatments every so often at the hospital, and he will drop class, he will drop practice, anything to go be with her and to go bring her magazines and bring her food. He`s just a great person.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let`s go to defense attorney Renee Rockwell because this is the young man, I understand, who says, according to his attorney, that he has an alibi. He claims that he has a cab receipt, he claims that he has an ATM record that shows that at the time of this alleged incident, he wasn`t there. What do you know about that?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I know that he does have a -- not only a receipt, but he has a statement from a taxi cab driver. But look at this kid. He`s cute. And let me tell you about a jury, Jane. A jury is going to look at a young man like this, he`s cute, he comes from a good family, and the DA is going to have some trouble with this.

Once you indict a case, you got to be ready to go to trial right now. These defense attorneys could file for a speedy trial, and it`s all over. They`re going to have to tee it up.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And Clark Goldband, who is a friend of mine, a wonderful Internet maven and also a Nancy Grace producer, you`ve gotten a timeline of what at least some of the players say happened that night. There was a photograph taken. They apparently had time stamps. What do they show?

CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE INTERNET REPORTER: Well, first we have this timeline, Jane. It comes from "Newsweek" magazine. Let`s try to sort this out. According to "Newsweek," at 11:02, there`s a picture of the players sitting on couches, waiting for the dancers to come. At 12:00 AM, there`s a picture of the dancers almost naked in front of a happy audience. I`m sure the guys are cheering them along and whatnot. But at 12:03, "Newsweek" claims there`s a picture of the guys not smiling at all, and the girl is reaching towards them. Now, we don`t know what that means.

These next statements that we have come from -- I`m sorry. These come from the attorney, an attorney who is helping out some of these Duke players. Erskine (ph) claims the dancer slapped a player for suggesting the accuser use a broom as a sex toy. He also says the two girls locked themselves in the bathroom sometime between 12:03 and 12:20. We don`t know the exact time. Again, these come from an attorney. Erskine also...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK -- oh, go ahead.

GOLDBAND: I`m sorry, Jane. I`ll just say Erskine (ph) also says they slide cash under the door. They tell the dancers to please leave. At 12:20, Erskine also says, the two girls, they go to the dancer`s car, and the accuser goes back to get her purse. So there`s an attorney saying that, Hey, these timelines don`t make sense.

"Newsweek" has a few photos, Jane, but we don`t know in that timeframe when exactly the rape was alleged to take place, what happened.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the dichotomy that I`m seeing is you have a young woman who knows one of these defendants saying he`s a wonderful guy, he`s got a girlfriend, he`s a gentlemen. On the other hand, you have this party where women are asked to take off their clothes and allegedly there`s a suggestion to use a broom handle as a sex toy.

I`d like to go to psychologist Patricia Saunders. Something doesn`t add up there. Is it just a mob mentality, where a bunch of guys get together and there`s a stripper and there might be some booze, and that`s a dangerous combo, things can get out of hand? What do you make of all of this?

PATRICIA SAUNDERS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, you know, Jane, Ted Bundy volunteered on a suicide hotline, so I don`t put too much weight on one of these young men as being described as a wonderful guy. You`re right that there`s a striking dichotomy. Some of it is group or mob mentality. You know, college men this age are not known for being particularly genteel. But I think there`s more going on than just mob mentality. There`s something gross and more than boorish happening here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right. We`re looking at a sign here. It says last night after (INAUDIBLE) meeting, somebody yelled out a racial slur. We`ve heard reports of boorishness on the part of this lacrosse team, public intoxication, urination. Of course, I don`t have the substantiation of that. But where there`s smoke, there`s fire sometimes. I mean, this is a team of guys, and I want to understand what their attitude was not just in terms of race but in terms of sex. Everybody`s talking about black and white, but I see a sexual issue, how young men on college campuses in general view women in today`s society. Your thoughts, Patricia?

SAUNDERS: Well, I think something does happen when people are in a group. And of course, we bond in a group, like an athletic team, OK? It becomes us against the world. And I`m sad to say that more often than not, there`s a regression to, really, a much more primitive level of functioning, you know, not just the use of cussing and primitive language, but a disdain and condescension towards women, and objectification of women as...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let me ask...

SAUNDERS: ... just sex objects.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... Sylvie about that. Sylvie Charles, you`re a Duke University student. You`re a female. You`re an attractive young lady. Do you see the attitudes on college campuses, Duke in particular, as being men are sort of allowed now to sort of exhibit a boorish behavior toward women and this is part of the whole sexual freedom?

CHARLES: Actually, I don`t experience that kind of mentality at all. I`ve never felt objectified by any of the men at Duke University. I`ve, in fact, only felt respected. There are so many gentlemen at that school who will help you with whatever you need.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So that`s so interesting. I mean, what do you make, then, of them having strippers over? Do you feel that`s inappropriate or not? Nobody`s even talking about that.

CHARLES: I do feel it`s inappropriate, but I`m here to talk about Reade`s character and...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, but I`m asking you about that. As a woman who goes to Duke, do you feel it`s inappropriate for these guys to have strippers over to perform for them?

CHARLES: I do feel it`s inappropriate, but I don`t feel it`s anything that is solely related to our school and this incident.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, I don`t think it`s solely related. I`m not even saying that. I think it`s a national issue of attitudes between men and women, young men toward young women.

CHARLES: It`s a very national issue, and it`s -- this situation brings up questions that need to be raised.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, if anything good comes out of all this, because so many lives have been if not destroyed, certainly put in agonizing situations, maybe we can all learn something as a society about our attitudes as reflected on college campuses.

To tonight`s "Case Alert." An arrest in a beating caught on tape near the MGM Grand casino in Las Vegas. Surveillance video shows a casino employee being attacked by a group of people. The victim suffers a broken jaw and collarbone. Eighteen-year-old Darrell Williams (ph) now arrested and held on two felony charges. Authorities still on the lookout for the other perps.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s obviously terrified. I mean, this has been an awful, awful thing for these families to deal with.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of stuff we don`t know about this case. We don`t know all the evidence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But we`ve got a lot of evidence to support what we`re saying about our clients.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Much of what we know is based on an incomplete amount of evidence. There`s a lot of evidence that has not been made public.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t conceive of a plea bargain in this case, no.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, sitting in tonight for Nancy Grace. We are picking up the discussion of the Duke lacrosse rape scandal. What really happened that night? And another very important question: What are some of the underlying societal issues that may have created a situation ripe for this particular kind of conflict?

Let`s go straight out to psychologist Patricia Saunders. Would it be correct, Patricia, to say that these kind of controversies, they don`t happen in a vacuum, that, for example, there was an e-mail that was sent the night of the party by another team member allegedly talking about -- everybody, I hope you`re sitting down -- skinning women. Is this evidence of sort of a pattern of boorishness by this team?

SAUNDERS: Well, I`d go a little bit more than saying boorishness, Jane. This is like a page out of "Psychopathia Sexualis," which is a standard text on sexual perversion in psychiatry, talking about attitudes towards women. The rationale is, Well, one guy wrote it to a buddy. It was sort of like a joke. I`d seriously question anybody`s judgment who would put this kind of fantasy into words, let alone think it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to read it. We just had it up, but I think it`s so significant because it really is horrifying, when you look at it. And this doesn`t come out of nowhere. "I`ve decided to have some strippers over to Edens 2C," which I believe is one of the dorm areas. "All are welcome. However, there will be no nudity. I plan on killing the bitches as soon as they walk in and proceeding to cut their skin off while" -- such-and-such -- "in my Duke issue Spandex."

Now, I`d like to go to Sylvia Charles, who is a Duke student and a friend of one of the suspects, and ask her for her reaction to that e-mail. What was the reaction on campus, first of all?

CHARLES: Well, the reaction was one of outrage at first, but it was realized quickly that the quote in the e-mail is from the movie "American Psycho," which the team watched together the night before.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I mean, that says something. See, I think there`s two separate issues here. And one is the specific issue of whether or not there was a rape and whether or not the individuals who have been arrested did it. And then the larger issue is the problems that are created by attitudes on campus.

And I`d like to go to one of the defense attorneys, Renee Rockwell, and talk about this because cases never happen in a vacuum. They always happen in the context of larger social issues.

ROCKWELL: That`s right. And here you have a situation where -- and let me just say this. First of all, I don`t think this was anything about lacrosse, so I was a little bit upset that a team with such a record forfeited the rest of the season. Now, if Nancy would be here, she`d go crazy over that. But here you have a situation where kids will be kids, boys will be boys...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I challenge that! I challenge boys will be boys. Skinning women is not "boys will be boys."

ROCKWELL: No, but...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yelling racial slurs is not "boys will be boys." I`m talking about attitudes that are tolerated, and I`m talking about as long as women say "boys will be boys," we`ve got a big problem in this society!

ROCKWELL: And I agree with that, but it`s not going to stop. Some of the -- four of the most dangerous years in any child`s life is college because here are two kids, they`re going to Catholic prep schools, they go to college, they might be going crazy and going wild, but this does not a rape make. I don`t think there`ll ever be a conviction in this case. I`m going out on a line.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know Collin. We know him well. And (INAUDIBLE) around, and has never been a problem. It`s very shocking. My wife was crying this morning. It should never happen. Just a good kid, a very good kid, and I`m sure he`s innocent.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, sitting in for Nancy Grace, who was stuck at Atlanta airport due to some delays there after she gave a victims` rights speech.

Meanwhile, we are talking about the scandal involving the Duke lacrosse team and what it means to us as a society. After an African- American woman, who is a student at another college in the area, performed as a stripper for the Duke lacrosse players, she accused three men in that group of raping her. Two young men have been arrested. They say they`re innocent. They insist they weren`t even there at the time of the alleged incident.

Let`s go straight out to prosecutor Eleanor Dixon, who`s in Atlanta, Georgia, for a sense of the politics of all this. You have a district attorney who`s been accused of a witch hunt by some people, and then he`s been applauded by others for pushing forward with what`s really a very difficult investigation. Has he played it down the middle or not?

DIXON: Well, I think he has. That`s a difficult position to be in, as the elected DA and trying to make the best decision for your community and for the case. So I imagine that he`s holding back some evidence and he`s making the best decision.

And you`ve got to remember, too, that these defendants are wearing some masks. They`re showing one face to the public, but I can only what kind of real face they showed to the victim during this incident. So you have to keep that in mind, as well. It`s not all as it appears.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Don Clark, former head of the FBI Houston bureau, does politics play a role when law enforcement is trying to decide what to do? Do they weigh the fact that, Oh, this is a hot situation, we`ve got a whole bunch of different groups, we`ve got the African-American community, we have feminists, we have the families of the lacrosse players, we have the Duke University students? There`s a lot of constituencies here.

CLARK: You know, Jane, I`d be naive if I said, No, it didn`t play a role at all. I mean, clearly, it`s there. And I think the law enforcement, particularly investigative people, will take that under consideration because -- in the totality of the circumstances, but it cannot -- it cannot step in the way of the investigation. You know, it cannot be because it`s racially motivated. It cannot be because we think these boys are good boys and good families and this. It has to be because what the evidence leads to. And they cannot let that really cause that to hamper the investigation. They`ve got to stay the course with their investigation, ask the tough questions...


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, sir. Thank you, and let`s hope justice is done in this case.

CLARK: You bet.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We at NANCY GRACE want very much to help, in our own way, solve unsolved homicides, find missing people. Tonight, take a good look at Kaci Clough, just 15 years old, last seen in Albuquerque, New Mexico, March 2, 2006. What a pretty girl. She may still be in the local area. If you have any information on this young girl, please contact the Albuquerque Police Department or go to



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have sex with her that night?

JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, LAST SEEN WITH NATALEE HOLLOWAY: That`s, first of all, that`s none of your business.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s just a question.

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes, but it`s absolutely none of your business.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, what -- I mean, did anything else happen that night?



VAN DER SLOOT: Well, yes, I kissed with her, but neither me, Deepak, or Satish ever had sex with her, and no one ever said otherwise.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell sitting in tonight for Nancy Grace.

Tonight, new momentum in the Natalee Holloway missing teen investigation. While search crews are still combing the Aruban coast for any sign of Holloway, tonight, a new suspect, a 19-year-old Aruban by the name of Geoffrey van Cromvoirt -- I want to say that carefully, because it`s a long name -- he is behind bars. He is under intense scrutiny.

Let`s go right out to Aruba and NANCY GRACE producer Eric Marrapodi. He has been there since the start, back and forth.

Bring us up to date, Eric. What are the very latest developments with this young man who is behind bars?

ERIC MARRAPODI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, that`s right, Jane. I have a ton of new developments to get to tonight, both in the search for Natalee Holloway and in the investigation into her disappearance.

First, late today we got word from the prosecutor`s office that today has been the fourth day of sea searches for Natalee, with a combination of the Aruban Coast Guard and the Netherlands-Antilles Coast Guard, using side-scan sonar.

Why is that important? This is the fourth day. Four days ago, it was Saturday. And Saturday, Geoffrey van Cromvoirt was brought into custody by police. Yesterday, of course, he had his hearing before the judge. They brought the judge to the jail at the Norad police station (ph). Prosecutor Karen Janssen was there, and so was his defense attorney.

Now, also late today we got a statement from Mr. Van Cromvoirt`s attorney. She wanted to clear up a few things, Jane. There have been a lot of rumors running around about this kid, and there`s a big reason for that: cops, attorneys, everyone has been tight-lipped.

This is the very first statement we`ve gotten regarding this kid from any official capacity...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And what does it say?

MARRAPODI: Say that again, Jane?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What does it say? Go to the statement.

MARRAPODI: Well, this statement -- Geoffrey was not employed in May or June of 2005 by the visibility team or by the VCB Security team, and did not have access to their uniforms.

Now, why is that important? VCB Security is a company his father owns. It`s a local security company here on the island. And a t-shirt with blood on it was found back in June on the south side of the island during searches for Natalee Holloway.

Now, at one point, Mr. Van Cromvoirt, the junior, Geoffrey, who is in custody now, also worked for the visibility team there in Aruba. And what he did was he would patrol the beaches and basically was there, as it sounds, to be a visible presence, a visible security presence to make the tourists feel safe. And there has been a lot of speculation that he may be tied to that very t-shirt that was found.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I have a -- immediate question is, this t-shire was found in June. So why suddenly new evidence, forensic evidence connected to the t-shirt now? I mean, you could test the t-shirt a million times between June and today. Why didn`t they find whatever they were looking for before, September, October, November, December?

MARRAPODI: Well, initially, Jane, that t-shirt was ruled out. And here`s why: Remember, back in June, those two black security guards were still in custody, thought to be in connection with the case. And when that t-shirt was found, they were still in custody. And they thought, well, they don`t work for this security company. It must not be related.

Now, as that story unraveled, things also progressed in the case. And the authorities honed in on those three chief suspects, Joran Van Der Sloot and Satish and Deepak Kalpoe.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So let me see if I understand this correctly. Whereas Joran says that he kissed Natalee but left her on the beach that night, because she wanted to stay out, and he left -- that`s what he`s claiming -- whereas this young man patrolled the beach, according to his job description, wherefore possibly he picked up where Joran left off and ran into this woman, Natalee?

MARRAPODI: Well, that`s what some people had speculated here on the island and elsewhere, that because of his job, he may have been in the area where Natalee would have been that night she disappeared.

But in this statement from her attorney, one of the things that his attorney wanted to debunk was that he was not working for the visibility team during May of 2005, when Natalee Holloway went missing, nor was he working in any official capacity for his father`s company, that VCB Security firm.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. This is so complex. I want to go now to Beth Twitty, Natalee`s mom.

We thank you for joining us.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We understand -- and we certainly understand that you must be a little bit overwhelmed. I mean, just keeping up with the details of all of this is one thing, but then the emotional rollercoaster. How are you doing, and how are you processing all of this?

TWITTY: Oh, Jane, I mean, you hit the nail on the head. I mean, it`s so complex. I mean, I`m just -- it`s really hard to stay focused. It`s really hard to not -- you know, I feel as if you kind of get derailed off your path, and there`s just so many different things going on, and so many new elements into play. It is just -- it is just, just too much.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, when you hear that this t-shirt may contain forensic evidence that they have now tied to the suspect -- and, again, the police aren`t saying much, though this is all relatively speculative, based on published reports -- do you wonder, as I did, well, why didn`t they find this forensic evidence back in June when they found this t-shirt?

Yes, they originally thought it was connected to the security guards, who were sort of falsely implicated by Joran and the Kalpoe brothers, but after those guys were cleared, shouldn`t they have gone back to that t- shirt immediately and taken another look at it, in another context?

TWITTY: Well, Jane, you would think that they would have done that. And I just can`t imagine that the shirt has any connection with Natalee, because it seemed as if it -- if it did, then that would have come out early this summer. I mean, it just doesn`t make any sense that it wouldn`t have.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I mean, I guess the theory that seems to be coming out of this is that, assume for a moment -- and it`s a big assumption -- Joran claims he left Natalee on the beach and left. This guy patrols the beach. He`s somehow there, and he sees her. Is that what you`re hearing, that in other words he may have picked up where Joran left off?

TWITTY: Well, I thought that`s maybe where we were headed with this, but after hearing from Eric, they`re saying that he was not even employed at the time in that position. So now I`m thinking that -- you know, that`s possibly not the case and that, you know, maybe this new suspect just has some information about as to what happened that night.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And does it also disturb you, Beth, that apparently this new suspect has a lot of connections in town? According to one published report -- which I don`t know if we`ve been able to independently confirm -- his relative, I believe a sister, is with law enforcement. His dad runs a security company. He was friends with the party boat guy, who also got involved in the case earlier, allegedly giving some sort of a cover-up alibi to Joran Van Der Sloot. This is all six degrees of separation here.

TWITTY: Jane, it`s just so many different connections that it is just frightening. And, you know, I don`t even know for certain -- I don`t think we`ve been able to definitively rule out that there`s not some photos that could quite possibly have Joran and the new suspect in them. I`m not certain of that at all, but it certainly appears that he may be in some.

And, you know, also, it`s kind of frightening to us to hear about his connections with the father having control of the security cameras on the island, because, after all, you know, the Holiday Inn security cameras were not working that night that the suspects took Natalee.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, this is so complicated.

Let`s go back to Eric Marrapodi, who is our producer, who`s done such an excellent job of tracking all of this.

What about the connections that this young man had? Who is he connected to in law enforcement, in the security world and in party boat world?

MARRAPODI: Yes, let`s put this altogether in perspective. I spoke with Steve Croes just a few days ago when this first broke and the connection came through. And Steve said: Hey, I don`t know the guy. I`ve never met him in my life.

Now, also in this statement from his attorney that came to us in (INAUDIBLE) or, sorry, it came to us in Dutch, and we just had time to translate it before the broadcast tonight, JVM. It says, "Geoffrey is not a friend nor has any relation to the three primary suspects in this case."

Now, who is he connected to? His sister is a police officer at the Norad police station (ph) where we know he was being held yesterday and where that hearing was, where they brought the judge to the police station.

How do we know she works there? Well, that famous picture of him from the "Diario" newspaper is at her swearing-in ceremony.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. OK, well, you are giving us some really good inside information. And this is just so complex, and there`s also the six degrees of separation. It`s really interesting. It`s only going to get more interesting, I`m sure. Stay with us.


VAN DER SLOOT: She was drunk. I had stuff to drink, too. But now that I don`t expect that the Aruban authorities tried to pin it that it was a rape case. She wanted to go with me; I wanted to go with her. It was totally consensual. I had something to drink; she had something to drink.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I think if you can explain to people what really happened and you were really forthcoming, the more forthcoming you are, the more chance there is of you to get on with your life.

VAN DER SLOOT: I will. One day I will explain exactly what happened, but right now I don`t feel ready to do that.




TWITTY: As if Joran can only place the blame on Natalee for everything that has transpired, every phase of it has been due to her fault. And it has to be some type of sociopathic or psychopathic behavior that he just places everything on Natalee.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, sitting in tonight for Nancy Grace.

We`re talking about stunning new developments in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. At the end of next month, it will have been a year since she was last seen on the island of Aruba as she was wrapping up a graduation trip.

Now, a new arrest, a young man with lots of connections on the island. His dad has a security firm and his job reportedly involved beach patrol duty. And to make sense of all of this, let`s go straight out to Jossy Mansur, who is managing director of the "Diario" newspaper.

We`re trying to figure out what the theory is behind the arrest of this young man. What part does he play in this puzzle?

JOSSY MANSUR, EDITOR, "DIARIO": Well, the precise details, we don`t know. But from what we have learned from the prosecution is he has been detained, he has been arrested on two counts, one, that he is involved in some way with the Natalee Holloway case and, two, that he is involved in some way with some kind of drugs being sold on the beach.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, let`s go to defense attorney Tiffany Koenig. If you were this guy`s defense attorney, would you say, "Hey, this is almost a year old. This t-shirt was found a long time ago, and now you`re just dragging my client in here"?

TIFFANY KOENIG, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. It being almost one year, they found this t-shirt back in June, they didn`t do anything with it, and now they start to arrest him? It just doesn`t make any sense.

Certainly, his dad had the security firm. You would think that if he is patrolling the beaches and his dad firm`s has been patrolling the beaches, that he would have reason to be there. They would have been interviewing him a long time ago, and it seems surprising that, at this point in time, that now they have decided to arrest him, at least for a hold for the preliminary investigation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you. It`s like, "This just in: He`s patrolling the beaches." Why didn`t we know this, like, a week after this terrible tragedy occurred and this young lady went missing?

I`d like to go to one of our producers in New York, Ellie, who knows everything about everything. And I want to ask you about the former chief Dompig, Ellie, because he`s no longer on the case, but this boy has a connection to him?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, we`re not sure about that. There`s some word that this guy who`s been arrested may have maybe a friend of Dompig`s son. But we haven`t been able to confirm that yet, so we`re waiting to hear about that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So any speculation that he wasn`t brought in earlier because there was a man in charge of the investigation whose son was friends with him is premature?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly, it is at this point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Jossy, what`s the mood on the island, given the arrest of this young man? Are people on the island throwing up their hands and saying, "What`s next?" Or are they relieved that there is progress?

MANSUR: Well, neither one. They`re very excited with the new developments, because they have high hopes that maybe now we will see a solution to the case and a closure to it. That`s the mood.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Beth Twitty, what is your heart telling you? Are you filled with hope at this point or are you just overwhelmed by all of this new information?

TWITTY: Well, I think we`re really encouraged, of course, you know, by the movement in the investigation. I just hope that this new suspect, as Jossy said, can, you know, give us the one break that we need, in order for this mystery to unravel, because I feel as if we`re just missing just a couple of small pieces, and then I just feel as if it will all come to light.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And patience is the key here, not to give up, and throw up our hands, and say, "Oh, we`ll never find out." It`s just when you think all hope is lost that something will come along sometimes.

TWITTY: Well, exactly. So, I think -- well, I mean, we`re very encouraged by it. And I think it`s a positive sign. At least we are, you know, attempting to move forward and find out what happened and if he has information about that last night.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I want to ask you something else as it relates to Joran Van Der Sloot. I mean, some people might look at this and say, "Wait, this could be a new suspect. We don`t know whether it`s going to eliminate Joran Van Der Sloot as a suspect or not." But some might say, playing devil`s advocate, "Hey, we had our blinders on."

In fact, his attorney says that. We only looked at Joran, and information that didn`t point towards him we didn`t look at, because we were so determined to get Joran on this. Do you see any validity in that argument, which was raised by his attorney?

TWITTY: Well, when I go back and I think of the original perpetrators into Natalee`s disappearance, we have one fact, well, really two facts, in that we know that three suspects are the last known individuals to be seen with Natalee alive.

And we know of the numerous or countless stories and lies that they had given the authorities on the island of Aruba. And, well, thirdly, you know, how could they implicate two minority security guards? You know, there`s a reason all that happened. What is it, I don`t know, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, Jossy, briefly, as we wrap up, does this eliminate Joran as a suspect, or is Joran still a suspect, even though they`ve arrested this new young man?

MANSUR: I think he remains the main suspect, he and the Kalpoe brothers. This new person that was arrested does not eliminate the three suspects, no.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So we now have just an expanded suspect pool?

MANSUR: Well, he has been giving answers. He has been giving answers to questions at the police station that have convinced the police that he knows more than he`s letting on. That`s why they`re keeping him, to see what else they can extract from him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Thank you, Jossy, for joining us live from Aruba. Thank you, Beth Twitty. And, again, we hope that this mystery is solved for everyone`s sake.

Quickly to tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin." FBI and law enforcement across the country on the lookout for David Gibson Lindsay, in the 2001 Illinois murder of 70-year-old Austin Dale Runyun (ph).

Lindsay, 56, 5`8", 150 pounds, gray hair, brown eyes. If you have any information on David Gibson Lindsay, call the FBI at 217-522-9675.

Local news next for some of you. We`re going to be right back. And, remember, Internet hacking leads to murder, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern, Court TV.

Stay with us as we remember Dimitri Muscat, 21, of Aurora, Colorado. Muscat left high school at 17 to join the Army, where he excelled as a gunner aboard a 60-ton tank. He loved all things mechanical, especially the Nissan sports car he was rebuilding back home. Dimitri Muscat, a real American hero.



DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S FATHER: You have all the lies. You have a police statement that Deepak buried her in the sand. You know, whether that`s true or not, you know, we just have to wait and see. And then you also have the fact that they lied about being out in the field where the gardener caught them in the middle of the night.

You know, just all of the different lies. Why would you lie if you weren`t trying to hide something?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell sitting in tonight for Nancy Grace.

What do make of this mystery in Aruba? And there is yet another wrinkle. Let`s go straight out to Eric Marrapodi, NANCY GRACE producer par excellence, on the phone from Aruba.

Apparently, now there is this audio recording, purportedly of Joran talking to the Kalpoe brothers. Tell us about that. That`s wild.

MARRAPODI: Yes, Jane, you`ve seen that shot many times on this broadcast of Joran Van Der Sloot and we think it`s Deepak Kalpoe attached at the wrist by handcuffs being escorted out of the downtown police station into a car.

We have since learned that the police were tapping those conversations on that long drive from the downtown police station to the KIA prison on the other side of the island.

Now, we know that these statements were made by the boys. They were being recorded by the police. They`ve been transcribed into Dutch, and an English translation is floating around the island. Now, we`re hearing mixed reviews on the translation from our sources here on the island.

Some sources say, yes, the tone is correct. This is what was being said, that Joran Van Der Sloot was angry at the Kalpoe brothers for involving his father. And it`s a very heated argument, if you read the text.

Other sources close to the investigation who`ve seen the report in Dutch and got a chance to look at the English translation say, no, it`s not an accurate translation and it`s not in the spirit of what was said, either. So we`re not going to get into the details on that tonight, because we can`t confirm it 100 percent.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And because we`ve completely run out of time, Eric. We want to thank you for this analysis of yet another development in this case. Will it ever end? We do hope so. We do hope we find out what really happened.

We want to thank all our guests tonight. And thanks to you at home for tracking these very important cases with us.

Coming up, headlines from around the world. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, sitting in tonight for Nancy Grace. Nancy is somewhere in the air tonight after giving a victim`s rights speech. She was delayed for hours because of a security breach at Atlanta airport. Please tune in again tomorrow night at 8:00 Eastern. Until then, have a terrific night. Bye.