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Nancy Grace

Tennessee Teacher Back in Jail

Aired May 05, 2006 - 20:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: reading, writing, arithmetic -- no way! Tennessee school teacher Pam Rogers in jail where she belongs after she sends graphic cell phone videos to an elementary school student. Now revealed it`s the same 13-year-old that landed her behind bars for statutory rape.
And tonight, two beautiful sisters of 10 and 3 years old vanished, not seen since they left their mom`s apartment, leaving behind a note saying they`re on the way to the store. What happened to these two little girls? Help us crack the case.

Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight, a desperate search for two beautiful little girls, sisters ages 10 and 3, last seen leaving their mom`s Chicago home.

But first tonight, a Tennessee schoolteacher accused of statutory rape with a child student makes bond, gets out, and then allegedly sends the same boy graphic cell phone videos of herself. I`m not even going to tell you what she`s not wearing!


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here`s 27-year-old Pamela Rogers Turner at her father`s home in Ventris (ph) County moments before being arrested. She`s charged with 15 counts of sexual battery with a 13-year-old male student.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was sexual contact of some type with this child at several locations, including the family home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was a very popular teacher here in this county, and she enjoys a lot of support in this county.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was looking forward to playing sports. He says he`s not going to play now. He was looking forward to just being with his friends and being a kid again.


GRACE: Man, second verse same as the first, another teacher behind bars for sex with a student! This one adds a new twist. She sends photos of herself in racy lingerie, and not much to it -- can you say thong? -- dancing away, on a cell phone video.

Pat Lalama, investigative reporter, as if I need any more facts than that, bring us up to date.

PAT LALAMA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, all right. You know that Pamela Rogers was released three months early from jail, in February, for good behavior. But apparently...

GRACE: Uh! Uh! Uh!

LALAMA: ... when she`s bad, she`s very bad.

GRACE: Mistake! Mistake!

LALAMA: What`s a mistake?

GRACE: No, mistake for letting her out early. Let her out early for what?


LALAMA: Oh, OK. Well, because she was good because...

GRACE: Good at what?

LALAMA: Well, Lord only knows. But when she`s bad, she`s bad. Now, here`s what happens. April 11, she gets arrested because she`s created Web sites to try to contact her young victim. Well, then she gets arrested. And then the cops say, You know what? Let`s go further. Let`s get a warrant and figure out what else she might be doing. And sure enough, text messages, nude photos, videos. As you said, the rest is history. It seems like all she`s got left now is smoke signals.

But the deal is, she could now jeopardize her future and her freedom because she might have to serve the rest of that eight-year sentence. And you know what, Nancy? I`m told it`s possible that some of these actions could be, in fact, new felonies.

GRACE: OK, let me get this straight. She was accused of statutory rape, Pat Lalama. She went behind bars. Was there a conviction or was -- was she waiting for to go to trial?

LALAMA: All right, here`s the deal. She made an agreement. There were 28 counts to begin with, including sexual battery and statutory rape. She pled no contest, which is the equivalent of guilty, to four of the sexual batteries, all right? It could have been a nine-year sentence. In fact, she got -- excuse me. It could have been an eight-year sentence. She got nine months. She was -- she had to register as a sex offender. She had to relinquish her teaching certificate.

And she was ordered, Do not contact this young man. There`s no way she could have not understood that -- including the Internet, including telephone. But she did it anyway, apparently, and then was brazen enough to go further with videos, and in fact, sent him messages after a court hearing! So apparently, for her, the law really doesn`t mean much.

GRACE: Take a listen to what the prosecution had to say.


DAN POTTER, DA GENERAL PROSECUTOR: We got 15 counts of sexual battery by an authority figure, based on the position as a teacher and -- that she had with this student at Centertown (ph) elementary school. There`s 13 counts of statutory rape.

Most of the time, we try to prosecute them as harsh as possible, when it comes to sex crimes involving children. As far as this case, we intend to prosecute it to the fullest extent possible.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think she`s doing well. She`s trying to keep it in perspective. She knows it`s going to be a long road.

She was a very popular teacher here in this county, and she enjoys a lot of support in this county. So I don`t want to have any knee-jerk reaction about a change of venue.


GRACE: It is Trial 101, nolo contendere. In other words, I do not contest.

To veteran trial lawyer Doug Burns. You know, when I had a felony case, I would not let -- if the defendant wanted to plead guilty for a lesser sentence, I would not let them plead nolo. You know why? Because in the future, a nolo very often cannot be used as a similar transaction. Say she has sex with another student or this student again. If they take it to trial, they may not be able to use this plea as proof of a similar transaction because she never really pleads guilty. Explain what a nolo contendere is.

DOUG BURNS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Very good point. Nolo contendre is the equivalent of guilty, but they don`t allocute it. They don`t admit the offense. In federal court, they call it...

GRACE: Did you just say allocute?

BURNS: Yes, allocute...

GRACE: OK, you sound like...

BURNS: ... Which means you admit the defense.

GRACE: ... a lawyer. Uh-uh-uh-uh-uh!

BURNS: Well, last time I checked, I am a lawyer.

GRACE: I know, but you know, when you`re explaining a legal term, try not to do it by using legal terms.

BURNS: All right. I apologize. Nolo contendere, you don`t admit in your own words what you did, and basically, it`s sort of a legal fiction. Most prosecutors` offices do not like it and don`t do it. You`re exactly right. And it`s for that reason, because they may not be able to use it later. You`re right.

GRACE: Take a listen to this.


LISA KEATON, MOTHER OF VICTIM: I think he is just tired of hearing it on a daily basis. He was looking forward to peace and quiet and getting back to normal. He was looking forward to playing sports. He says he`s not going to play now. He was looking forward to just being with his friends and being a kid again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think she missed her whole goal in life because this is going to change her life forever.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I don`t believe it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s what I think it is, disgusting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ain`t nothing that shocks me anymore. I`m 83 years old, and I`ve seen a lot of it.


GRACE: Well, apparently, he hasn`t seen these cell phone videos that this Tennessee elementary school teacher sent a 13-year-old little boy. Now, a lot of networks have played them. I don`t want to play them. It just seems to be perpetuating something wrong.

But I`ve got to tell you -- here in the studio, psychotherapist Lauren Howard -- they look like they`re straight out of soft-core porn like "Playboy."

LAUREN HOWARD, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: You know, the thing is, Nancy, why is it that we can`t look at this woman as a pedophile? That`s what she is. And therefore, she has a compulsion for a behavior that is not -- that she really can -- is unable to resist the impulse toward. If she were a man, we would have no problem sort of seeing her as an unwell person, a compulsive sex offender. But because she`s a really attractive, foxy girl, we just can`t put her in that box.

GRACE: Take a listen to what else the prosecution had to say.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was sexual contact of some type with this child at several locations, including the family home.

When you`ve got somebody 13-year-old compared to an adult, there`s a big thinking difference as far as the way they look at life, the way they look at things and what`s important to them.

PETER STRIANSE, PAM ROGERS TURNER`S ATTORNEY: And I think she`s doing well. She`s trying to keep it in perspective. She knows it`s going to be a long road. She was a very popular teacher here in this county, and she enjoys a lot of support in this county, so I don`t want to have any knee- jerk reaction about a change of venue.


GRACE: Now joining us, a new guest, David Gehrke. I know you all know Mary Kay Letourneau, one of the most publicized female teacher sex predators. You know, David Gehrke, you`re the attorney, long-time attorney for Mary Kay Letourneau. She has gone on to marry her child victim, Vili Fualaau. They`ve got either, what, two or three kids together?

DAVID GEHRKE, ATTORNEY FOR MARY KAY LETOURNEAU: Two children together, and their first anniversary is coming up this month.

GRACE: I`m so happy for them. But my point is not on their happy union. Hey, do either one of them have a job yet?

GEHRKE: They`re writing a book.

GRACE: Excuse me?

GEHRKE: They`re writing a book, I hear.

GRACE: Another book. OK. The first book was (INAUDIBLE), "My Only Crime Love"...

GEHRKE: Was Love.

GRACE: Yes. All right. David...


GRACE: ... you would think, after all the publicity surrounding Mary Kay Letourneau and getting it on in, what was it, a Volkswagen Rabbit, after she got out on bond, that that would kind of dissuade other elementary school teachers from doing the same.

GEHRKE: You know what? You`re right. You`re absolutely right. Everybody knows that Mary reoffended and went to prison for seven years. Pamela Rogers has a teaching certificate, is a college graduate, is not stupid. And there`s something wrong with her. Unfortunately, I predict that she`ll go to prison now, and that may be the right way to handle this.

But obviously, something is wrong with her. She`s not a pedophile. She`s got this compulsive behavior for this one child and just cannot leave him alone, despite her better judgment.

GRACE: Well, leaving him alone -- I think it was more having sex with him, is the problem. Let`s take a listen to...

GEHRKE: I mean the most recent contact, where she`s e-mailing him, sending him these videos...

GRACE: Have you seen the videos?

GEHRKE: I did. It`s -- I wouldn`t let my kids...

GRACE: Please tell me you didn`t turn it into your screen saver!


GEHRKE: I have children at home.

GRACE: Thank you.

GEHRKE: No, it was -- it was...

GRACE: Ridiculous!

GEHRKE: It was porn. It was pornographic.

GRACE: She needs to go to jail! If she`s got a problem, she can sort it all out behind bars. They`ve got a lot of self-help books there in the jail library. But speaking of your client, Mary Kay Letourneau, who, P.S. -- not that I disagree with it -- ended up doing hard jail time, while a lot of her, let me say, followers -- Mary Kay light -- have done very light jail times. Take a listen to what Mary Kay Letourneau has to say.


MARY KAY LETOURNEAU, CONVICTED OF HAVING SEX WITH HER STUDENT: Your Honor, I did something that I had no right to do morally or legally. It was wrong, and I am sorry. I give you my word that it will not happen again. Please, please help me. Help us all.


GRACE: She made a very dramatic and poignant case to the judge. Now, remember, the first time, the judge let her off easy, and it was only after getting out and being found with Vili Fualaau, another one of her students, that she was finally incarcerated for the full sentence.

To David Gehrke -- how long did she actually do behind bars?

GEHRKE: She did almost the full 84 months. She lost a lot of good time, even after she was sent to prison, for continuing to contact Vili, either smuggled tapes out, sent him letters, messages one way or another. Even while she was being in prison, she could not control that impulse.

GRACE: Well, I know you keep calling it an impulse, but to me, it`s just like an impulse to shoplifting or to pull a drug trigger or doing a hit of crack. It`s an impulse, yes, but it is also a crime. What...

GEHRKE: Oh, absolutely. Kleptomaniac, the people that steal all the time when they have a pocketful of money. Yes, it`s a crime. They need to be held accountable. But a lot of times, they need counseling, and I think that`s why the prosecutor in this case gave Ms. Rogers a break. And you only get one break on a crime this serious. And as much as I hate to see her go to prison -- she`s not going to get help she needs there...

GRACE: Well, she followed instructions, that`s true, the instructions that come with your cell phone about how to send videos.

David Gehrke, very quickly, what are their respective ages now, Mary Kay...

GEHRKE: I think Vili is 23 and Mary 43, something like that.

GRACE: Quick break, everybody. We`ll all be right back. I would like to find out why yet another school teacher got such a light plea after being charged with 28 counts, including 13 counts of statutory rape.

Very quickly, to tonight`s "Case Alert." Police at Duke University investigating yet another coed rape, the case not connected to the alleged Duke lacrosse multiple rape.


GRACE: What in the hey was that? Rosie (ph), please play that back again. What -- we`re talking about statutory rape of a 13-year-old elementary school student. What was that, Ms. Ellie (ph)?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe she was Miss Monday Nitro (ph). She got to go out and prance around in a bikini at a professional wrestling -- .

GRACE: What is Miss Monday Nitro? What is that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s that. It`s the girl who walks around in a bikini between wrestling matches.

GRACE: Oh, OK. To Nicole Deborde, veteran defense attorney. They`re going to love this video in the big dollhouse.

NICOLE DEBORDE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, yes. It sounds like quite a show.

GRACE: What, you don`t watch "Monday Nitro"?

DEBORDE: I haven`t seen "Monday Nitro." I`ve missed those wrestling matches, apparently.

GRACE: Well, did you miss the fact that this woman got a light sentence on 28 felony counts, including 13 on statutory rape? Explain.

DEBORDE: Well, Nancy...

GRACE: OK, that`s enough, Rosie! We`ve seen Miss Nitro.


GRACE: You can take that down. Thanks. Go ahead, Nicole.

DEBORDE: I think that -- you know, as you know from your experience as being a prosecutor, you`re seeking justice for the community. And the victim or the boy involved in this particular case is actually part of the community for whom you are seeking justice. And if you go back to the beginning of this case, you can see that the boy, his family, they did not want to go forward with the trial.

Also, the prosecution mentioned considerations about the fact that it was very unlikely that they were to get a jury panel out there to hear this case of all female jurors. And that`s probably accurate. And there are probably more than a few men out there who would ultimately end up on a jury, who would say, You know what? This just isn`t the kind of crime that we`re either, A, going to convict for, or, B, going to give a harsh sentence for.

So the prosecutor has to do what they can to get the right result in their case. And ultimately, it worked out in the defense`s interest, in the sense that she got a probation.

GRACE: She certainly did. Now revoked.

Joining us right now, a brand-new guest, CNN technology correspondent Daniel Sieberg. Daniel, thank you for being with us tonight.


GRACE: Daniel, I don`t know that much -- I didn`t even know how to do a text message on the phone until my 70-something-year-old mother sent me a text message.

SIEBERG: Wow. She`s pretty skilled.

GRACE: Yes! My question is, how do you record and send a video over the cell phone? And how is that then captured for use at trial?

SIEBERG: Well, sending cell phone over a video is -- a phone is really easy, actually, if you want to send video over your cell phone. I have a newer cell phone here, but these days, if your cell phone comes with a camera to take pictures, it probably comes with the ability to take video, as well. You can take short clips just by hitting the capture button.

This is not great video quality, we should say. These are small clips, a few seconds to a few minutes, maybe. You can send it to anybody who has a phone who can view it. Keep in mind, it`s meant to be viewed on a fairly small screen, so the quality is obviously not going to be that great. It takes up more memory on your phone. But it`s very easy to do, if you want to be a cellular Spielberg. But in terms of tracking the...


GRACE: I don`t think that`s exactly what she had in mind. I don`t think it was the quality of Spielberg.

SIEBERG: No, I don`t think she had any artistic merit.

GRACE: I think it was more about...


GRACE: ... type thing.

SIEBERG: Yes. Exactly. But when it comes to actually trying to track this video that`s being sent, the people we talked to said that tracking it in real time would be very difficult. The carriers say that, basically, all they would see, if it`s sent in real time, is just ones and zeros, just the data itself. They would know that it`s a bigger file, video, for example, but they wouldn`t necessarily be able to see the content.

Now, once they get the content, they can see it later, like the video in this case, they can probably or possibly trace it back to a particular phone or to a particular camera. One researcher told me that digital photos or digital video basically has a fingerprint to it, so it has unique characteristics that would tie it back to the source. So they would at least be able to match where it was from. And of course, obviously, they know who took it because they can see the subject of the video.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think she`s doing well. She`s trying to keep it in perspective. She knows it`s going to be a long road. She was a very popular teacher here in this county, and she enjoys a lot of support in this county, so I don`t want to have any knee-jerk reaction about a change of venue.


GRACE: A lot of support? Well, maybe the county should take a look at the explicit cell phone videos this elementary school teacher sent to an elementary student that she had already pled guilty to having sex with. And you know, "having sex with" is such a euphemism. Under the law, it is statutory rape.

Back to our CNN technology correspondent, Daniel Sieberg. Daniel, again, thank you for being with us. Rogers also set up a Myspace page. I thought that was for teenagers. The only person I`ve ever heard refer to it is David Spade. And how simple is it to do that? And can students, for instance, write her on the Myspace?

SIEBERG: Well, it`s very easy to set up a Myspace page. A lot of people have probably heard of Myspace these days. It`s a social networking site. A lot of kids are into it. You can post your photos there. You can chat with friends. It`s really a place to meet people. But as we`ve heard, too, it`s also a place where sexual predators go to try to meet children, so there are some hazards involved with it.

It`s very easy to set up a Myspace page. It`s free, first of all. All you need to do is create a login, some information about yourself, and up it goes. It`s live on the Internet. Anybody can see it. There are ways to block certain people from communicating with you. That`s for safety reasons. But once the page is up there, anybody can see it until you take it down.

GRACE: Do you have a page?

SIEBERG: I set up a page. I don`t maintain it at all, but I just set it up just to see what it was all about. And personally, I just...

GRACE: Sure you did, Daniel!


SIEBERG: Research! Research!

GRACE: Just to see what it was! OK, Daniel, serious question. Once videos are in your cell phone, I guess, store area, can they be deleted permanently, or are they like a computer, where you never really get rid of anything?

SIEBERG: Well, that is a good thing to think about. This is a fairly new cell phone. It does allow you to capture video -- again, short video clips, not great quality. You can delete it off the phone, and you won`t see it. Maybe if your parents are looking at your phone, they`re not going to see it. But I think it`s safe to say that, as you point out, in the digital world, nothing is ever really gone, even when it`s deleted and you can`t see it.

GRACE: So cops can get it.

SIEBERG: Right. There`s a possibility that forensics experts could go in there and at least recover some of the data. It may not look like it did in its original form...

GRACE: Gotcha.

SIEBERG: ... but we`ve certainly learned over the years that delete does not mean gone.

GRACE: To Dr. Julia Hislop, an expert on female sex offenders. Is recidivism amongst female sex predators common?

DR. JULIA HISLOP, FEMALE SEX OFFENDER EXPERT: Well, the numbers are just beginning to come in. It`s only been in the past 20 years or so that we even thought about women as being sex offenders, let alone studied them and studied how often they recommit sex offenses. The data coming in suggests that the likelihood that they reoffend is a little bit less than for the males, but the data coming in are preliminary and have just started to be collected.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Diamond was 3 and Tionda was 10 when the girls disappeared from this South Side neighborhood without a trace. Their mother, Tracy Bradley, last saw the girls at 6:30 on the morning of July 6, 2001.


GRACE: Can it heat up? Can we help find these girls?

To "America`s Most Wanted" correspondent Ed Miller. Ed, take us back to the beginning. What happened?

ED MILLER, REPORTER, "AMERICA`S MOST WANTED": Well, as you know, Nancy, let me just remind you very quickly that any crime against a child gets special attention by "America`s Most Wanted." We`re always here long after the local news cameras go on to something else.

And to go back to the very beginning, those children disappeared, although eyewitnesses in the neighborhood say they saw those children playing in the pool yard right outside, you know, the neighborhood, and that is where the one daughter said that they were going to go, to the school. Although she was signed up for summer school that day, she did not attend classes.

GRACE: Here`s what police had to say.


JOHN THOMAS, CHICAGO POLICE: I think we have to be prepared to deal with whatever eventuality happens. The fact that the little girls have not been located at this point certainly does not bode well. And when I say a criminal investigation, that means certain attempts at evidentiary material collection, those kinds of things are being done. Forensics work is being done, and that`s the direction we`re going in.

PAT CAMDEN, CHICAGO POLICE: Any calls that have been received, any information that`s come in, we followed through on, we have people looking at. And at this point we`re still looking for two missing girls.


GRACE: Back to "America`s Most Wanted" Ed Miller. Where was the mom at the time? Did she go to work that day?

MILLER: She went to work that morning, and then she came home, and the children were on their own. And I believe the police did cite her for, you know, leaving the children home alone, and that is an ongoing problem, if there is a lesson to be learned here, that, you know, children, even children that are mature, that have been left home alone before, it`s really not a great idea for that. But, yes, she came home from work and the children were gone.

GRACE: OK, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. What time did she get home from work?

MILLER: She got home, to the best of my knowledge, right before noon.

GRACE: Well, Ed, I was a latchkey kid myself. Both my mom and dad worked all day long. So are you trying to tell me my mom was negligent because she had to go to work?

MILLER: Well, Nancy, you know, this is a very fine line of what age you can leave children home alone. In this particular case, the oldest child was 10, I believe, in the house. Although there are older children - - that Tracy does have older children, they were not in the house. So the 10-year-old was in charge.

GRACE: I see. Joining me right now, a very special guest tonight, the girl`s mom, Tracy Bradley.

Mrs. Bradley, thank you for being with us.


GRACE: Can you go back to that day your girls went missing and tell us what happened that morning when you left for work?

BRADLEY: I was at home during the time that they was there. I had to be at work at 6:30 or 6:45. So I left out of the house about 6:30 to make it to work by 6:45 to meet the truck that I have to put out for to feed the kids at the program that I worked at.

So my work schedule is from 7:00 to 12:00. So I gets off at 12:00. And I`d say I made it home about 12:00, 12:30, something, like, in between that time.

So when I got in -- come in from work, I put my key in the door, and I unlocked my door. And I called for Tionda and Diamond, so I didn`t get no response back.

So I goes to the back. I didn`t see anyone back there. So I come back to the front, and I kind of stomped my feet, because it kind of felt like something had happened to them, but then I recognized, looking to my left as I was coming back towards the front room, I saw a note was there saying that, "Me and Diamond went to the store." And from there, I mean, I didn`t hear anything else.

GRACE: Ms. Bradley...


GRACE: ... I just -- I hope that you are not feeling guilty because you went to work. My mom and dad both worked the whole time we were growing up. They had to, and I know you had to.

During these years, have you heard anything from them or a clue about them, anything?

BRADLEY: No, I haven`t heard anything, but no clue, where they are, no phone call, not nothing.

GRACE: To Reverend Paul Jakes, Jr. -- he`s the family spokesperson -- you went on to try to find these girls. What can you tell us about that?

REV. PAUL JAKES, JR., SPOKESPERSON FOR BRADLEY FAMILY: Well, what we have done is we have gone to Indianapolis, and many other ministers have looked in other various places trying to find these beautiful children. What we have found is that there is great interest all over the country.

GRACE: Back to James Miller, private investigator, James, tell us, when you take a look at this case, you have an inside track on it. What will it take to crack the case?

JAMES MILLER, PRIVATE DETECTIVE: I believe what it will take is a concerted effort of the media, national attention, funding so that we can get our investigators out there to talk to different witnesses, because they could come to us, and we don`t have to -- we could keep the confidence of them, if they come to me.

I could hold their confidences and I could get down to the bottom, because I`m not interested in what they know and interested in arresting them. I`m interested in finding these girls.

I`ve been working this case ever since 2001. It`s brought us everywhere in the country. We`ve gone to Mississippi. We`ve gone up to Minnesota. When national media attention brought this on "America`s Most Wanted" a couple of years ago, there were sightings in Indianapolis, and then I had gas station owners call me.

I sent the FBI out there to find Diamond and Tionda, because the age- progressed photos made a lot of matches. And we did follow up every clue, and we have not found them, but the awareness is the key, so it takes awareness.

GRACE: To Detective Marie Biggane with Chicago P.D. cold case unit, there have been so many leads, even taking the FBI to Morocco. Tell me, where does the case stand today? What are you doing now?

DET. MARIE BIGGANE, CHICAGO COLD CASE UNIT: Actually, I just finished a re-canvassing of the area where initial canvassings are done, re- interviewed a lot of people. There`s like over 1,000 people just in the community that were interviewed.

I just went to Maryville, Indiana, yesterday to follow up a lead, which proved negative. We`re still receiving leads, not as many, you know, as initially. However, we are still getting them in, and we will follow up on all leads.

The FBI has been assisting in out-of-state leads. Anything that`s, you know, called in will be kept confidential, and we are reviewing evidence at this point.

GRACE: And, finally, back to the girls` mother, Tracy Bradley, with us tonight, if you could speak out to your girls, just in case they`re watching, what would you say?

BRADLEY: If there`s anyone out there that have my two daughters, Diamond and Tionda, please, please call, and just call and, you know, let me know if they are all right. Get in touch with the FBI, and let us know that, you know, to bring my children back home, because I miss them and I love them dearly.

And it`s been almost five years now. And me and my family has really suffered since during that period of time. So, if anybody know anything out there, and here`s a sketch of them today that, you know, you see these two girls out there, Diamond and Tionda, call, get in touch with FBI.

GRACE: Very quickly, everyone, the reward now up to $20,000 for these two little girls, phone number 312-746-9690.

Very quickly, to tonight`s "Trial Tracking." Police search for clues in the mysterious of a Boston high school cheerleader. The body of 19- year-old Dominique Samuels found early Sunday morning beyond recognition burned. Police believe Samuels killed at one location, then moved to a wooded area.

Also tonight, police ask for help to find the missing mother of four. Twenty-five-year-old Yolanda Bindics, last seen August 2004, leaving her job at the family dollar store, Jamestown, New York. Bindics, 5`7", blonde hair, hazel eyes. The reward: $20,000. Contact the FBI, 716-484-7085.



GLENN BECK, CNN HEADLINE NEWS HOST: Which one is more likely to be a terror suspect?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see, this is where you get into this type of provocative, simplistic kind of...

BECK: Why? That`s common sense. By the way, "A" is on the most wanted terror list. "B" is not.


BECK: I stand by that, too.

GRACE: Why do people ignore common sense? I don`t know, but I can tell you one thing: Common sense plays well to a jury. I know that much.

Welcome back, everybody. Joining me right now is a very special guest, and we`re happy to have him with us, Glenn Beck.

Glenn, welcome. What`s the format of the new show? I`m scared to ask.

BECK: You know, well, I`ve got to tell you, you scare me, because I think you`re going to reach across the desk and strangle me at some point.

GRACE: They specifically made this -- I asked for a different desk, OK? That`s on the record -- that wasn`t so wide, because no one can I...


BECK: You know, I watch your show, Nancy. I do. I watch your show, and I think, "Uh-oh, he`s in for it, man."

GRACE: That`s why they always put the defense attorneys in other studios so I can`t physically grab them.

BECK: That`s right.

GRACE: They always have a therapist here to talk me down.

BECK: Sure, sure. The format of the show is kind of like the radio show that I do. It`s based on...

GRACE: You have a radio show?

BECK: I do. Isn`t that weird?

GRACE: Holy -- oh, you mean the wildly popular Glenn Beck, number- three syndicated show in the country? Isn`t that like your intro?

BECK: That`s what they say, yes, I guess.

GRACE: I don`t think it was you that said it.

BECK: You know, we did -- you know, when I first got into talk radio, they said, you know, "You`ve got to talk about politics. You have to talk about legal, or you have to be moral or whatever." And I said, "I`ve never sat at a dinner table where everybody says, `We`re only talking about politics. We`re only talking about this.`"

You know, you laugh, you cry, you shout. You know, you do a little bit of everything, and that`s what the show is.

GRACE: Question.

BECK: Yes?

GRACE: Why are so many people offended by you? Now, I know you had me on once as a guest, so I can only assume it was that type of interview...

BECK: Craziness.

GRACE: ... that gets people very PO`d, which is a technical legal term...


BECK: No, really? I mean, you went to school. I didn`t. It`s not - - you know, I don`t know why people are offended by me, other than I say what I mean and mean what I say. I mean, it`s the same thing with you. I mean, I think that`s what attracts people...

GRACE: Oh, don`t throw me in that pot.

BECK: No, no.

GRACE: Don`t throw me in, "I`m the same as you." I`m not -- uh-uh.

BECK: I think the secret to your show is that you are who you say you are, you know? The reason why I watch your show -- and would I imagine it`s going to be the same reason why people listen to me or watch me -- is because, look, you like me, you hate me, I am who I am, and that`s just the way it is.

GRACE: Well, correction. The NANCY GRACE show is not me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. Here, the trial is the star. But with the Glenn Beck show, I assume it`s all about G.B.

BECK: No, it`s all about me. I mean, other shows are out looking for -- I`m looking out for you. I`m looking for me the whole time.

GRACE: What a lot of people -- and I like to be prepared for this question. I don`t like it very much when people bring up the murder of my former fiance without me being prepared for it.

BECK: Sure.

GRACE: It`s always like -- still, this many years later, it`s like just cold water thrown on my face. But a lot of people don`t realize where you`re coming from with your life history, and I`m referring specifically to your mom and brother.

BECK: I mean, I`ve grown up -- I`ve had a lot of experiences in my life. My mom committed suicide when I was 13; my brother has committed suicide. I`m an alcoholic in recovery, did drugs every day of my life for many, many years. I like to say I`m a work in progress, a recovering scumbag.

GRACE: Aren`t we all?

BECK: Yes, we are.

GRACE: I`d much rather have a sinner than a hypocrite any day.

BECK: Yes, I mean, I think what I found when I hit rock bottom was the things that I was trying to recover from, the things that I was hiding, the things that I didn`t address were the things that were destroying me, and they were the things that empowered me, as well.

I mean, I think we all have pieces of us where we say, "Gosh, if somebody only knew that I was like that, they would hate me." Well, you know what? If people hate you for what you really are, then you don`t want them as your friends anyway.

And I think all of us have these things that we`ve done in our past or think or whatever that we`re hiding, and if we just let them go, and we play those cards before they`re played against us, I think it makes us much stronger as people.

GRACE: How do you go about -- now, see, I was always so focused on getting through law school, getting out, becoming a prosecutor. People actually laugh at me when I say I`ve never smoked pot, nothing, zero.

BECK: God bless you. My wife is the same way.

GRACE: And I can`t figure -- how do you fight and struggle on a daily basis with a demon like that?

BECK: You know, you`re never cured. But I have to tell you, I mean, you know, I`m at the eye of a storm here where, you know, I just had a baby, by the way, Cheyenne Grace, named, of course, after you. And we`re launching a TV show, which I think is going to involve more pain and screaming than the actual birth.

GRACE: For that, you can get an epidural.

BECK: Yes, I know. Well, I don`t feel my legs now anyway. But, you know -- I just told my father-in-law last night that I am strangely at peace right now. And I think it`s because -- I haven`t dealt with all of my demons, but I`ve taken a lot of the big ones off of the block. And when you do that, and you...

GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, don`t say it out loud, because I think the demons can hear you, and then they`ll come back and torture you like little harpies.

Question: Is it true you threw a benefit somehow for 9/11 Katrina victims?

BECK: Yes, no, I threw a benefit for Katrina survivors. I didn`t like to call them victims as much as survivors. I think there were some victims out there. And then there were those who were capitalizing on the event, and they were stealing televisions and shooting at helicopters.

You know, those people, I didn`t raise money for them. And we raised -- I don`t even remember what it was -- $150,000 in an afternoon for them to try to help those people who were trying to be decent people and get back on their feet.

GRACE: Question: Moussaoui verdict?

BECK: I`m torn. I`m a conservative. I`m against the death penalty.

GRACE: OK, that`s enough. OK, go ahead.

BECK: No, I`m a conservative but I`m against the death penalty. You know, the thing I don`t like about the Moussaoui cases is, I don`t like the fact that he is going to be able to speak to anyone.

GRACE: I don`t like the fact that my parents, who are retired, are going to be paying his $50,000-a-year upkeep, the feeding and care for Moussaoui.

BECK: Yes, but, you know, I`ll go with that argument if you would help fix the system where it doesn`t cost us more to kill a guy.

GRACE: Yes, I got a couple of ideas on that.

BECK: Does it involve a shiv?

GRACE: Is it true you`re changing the title of your show from "THE GLENN BECK SHOW" to the "Nancy Grace Pre-Show"?

BECK: Yes, yes, yes.

GRACE: Oh, finally somebody makes some sense around here.

Glenn Beck, everyone. I hope you`re going to be part of his show.

Stay with us, everyone, as we stop to remember Army Corporal Nyle Yates, 22, Lake Odessa, Michigan, killed, Iraq, second tour of duty. His high school principal remembers him as a baby-faced boy, 5`5", who graduated a man of 6`1". Nyle Yates, a man indeed, and tonight our American hero.


GRACE: What a week in America`s courts. Wednesday, I went to Capitol Hill and testified before Congress about the epidemic of online sex predators. The most moving part of the day: a little girl, Masha Allen, adopted from a Russian orphanage, age 5, straight into the hands of an American pedophile, abused for years.

And now the graphic images of her, photos he took, will be on the Internet forever. Listen to the words of a real, but tiny, American hero.


GRACE: Live from the nation`s Capitol, taking the fight against online sex predators all the way to the steps of Congress.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you swear that the testimony you are about to give is...

GRACE: Victims speak as one united voice.

MASHA ALLEN, ABUSED BY SEX PREDATOR: My name is Masha Allen. I`m 13 years old.

GRACE: I am here today before you, humble, on behalf of every child victim I ever knew.

ALLEN: I came to Washington so I can try to convince people to vote on my law.

GRACE: ... for those who are too young, or weak, or innocent, or simply afraid to speak out.

ALLEN: When I was five years old, Matthew Mancuso, a Pittsburgh businessman who was a pedophile, adopted me. The abuse started the night I got there. He made me sleep in his bed from the very beginning. He molested me all the time. Sometimes he kept me chained in the basement. He only let me eat a little bit of food. I was afraid and confused.

GRACE: They go on living their lives in quiet desperation...

ALLEN: And I didn`t know who to trust.

GRACE: ... a pain and helplessness like no other.

ALLEN: Nancy is really special to my family and me. She has been an advocate for me and lots of other kids.

GRACE: How do you feel tonight?

ALLEN: I feel great. I`m happy.

GRACE: Masha led the fight to stop child Internet sex predators.

ALLEN: I believe I can do something for other kids so they don`t have to go through what I did.

GRACE: How proud I am that I got to sit beside her. And the words, "a little child will lead them" were never more true.


GRACE: Thank you, Masha. And thank you to you for being with us, inviting us into your homes. I`m Nancy Grace signing off for tonight and for the week. See you here Monday night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.