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Nancy Grace

Karr Candidate for Bond?

Aired August 31, 2006 - 20:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: He confessed to murdering 6-year-old beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey, but authorities say that while DNA and secret tapes show John Mark Karr is not a killer, he is a clear and present threat, a predator of our children from Alabama to Petaluma, California, to Boulder, Colorado, to Thailand and all points in between. Tonight, we put out the alert and investigate, Karr in a Boulder jail cell awaiting extradition to California on child porn, while as we speak, a California judge weighs expanding a search warrant on Karr. Experts believe multiple child victims are yet to be uncovered. And tonight, we learn Karr will be a candidate for bond -- that`s right, walking free! Sonoma County, lock your doors and patrol your playgrounds!

WENDY HUTCHENS, SAYS SHE SECRETLY RECORDED PHONE CALLS WITH JOHN MARK KARR: He`s just a really attracted to little girls and he thinks that they`re -- that the perfect kind of love resides in them, that they have no prejudgment.

He claims to have molested hundreds of little girls, a lot of them in his car.


GRACE: Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight.

Tonight, a trial judge weighing the possibility of expanding a search warrant on John Mark Karr. Is there more to be learned from that computer he brought all the way from Thailand to the U.S.? And here`s a hint, John Mark Karr, have you heard the words sexual tourism? Well, the feds can prosecute in America U.S. citizens that go abroad for illegal sex trade with children. Tonight, all investigators on alert as they take a long, hard look at John Mark Karr.

Out to the jail. Standing by, our producer, Rupa. Rupa, what`s the latest?

RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, the latest is there seems to be a new lawyer in the picture for John Mark Karr. His name is Robert Amparan. He`s a criminal defense lawyer in San Francisco. And I spoke with him today, and apparently, I guess -- here`s what`s going on with his lifestyle in jail. He has a phone in his -- he has a phone in his room. He can call whenever he wants, and he`s been speaking to his lawyer. He has retained him. And as I spoke to his lawyer today, he confirmed for me that he will be representing John Karr in California for the misdemeanor charges.

GRACE: Also, we learned tonight it is an attack and a defense on all fronts by this new lawyer. Robert M. Amparan there in California is now fighting -- helping lead the fight from behind bars to secure book and movie deals for John Mark Karr. All right, you`ve got a guy confessing to killing a dead 6-year-old beauty queen. You have John Mark Karr facing extradition on child porn. And he is fighting for his rights to publish a book and make a movie.

Joining us now, Court TV`s Jean Casarez. Jean, describe the jail for us. What kind of life is Karr leading tonight?

JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: Well, it`s not too bad. It`s a very modern jail. It`s a large facility. He is in a cell all by himself. He`s got a stainless steel bed, stainless steel toilet, stainless steel washbasin. And he gets good meals. Last night, he had turkey and baked potato.

GRACE: I want to go back, Jean Casarez, to this letter from his brand-new attorney -- believe it or not, three dozen attorneys wanting to represent Karr for free. I want to talk about the only legal document that we have our mitts on so far. It`s a letter regarding Karr`s book and movie deal. What about it, Jean Casarez? What can you tell us?

CASAREZ: Very interesting. This attorney is going far to the left of criminal law. He`s talking about intellectual property rights. That`s copyright. And what he`s saying in this letter is that he doesn`t want any of the writings of John Karr to be reproduced, distributed or broadcast because they are John Karr`s copyright. However, Nancy, all of those e- mails, they were all attachments to the probable cause affidavit. They`re part of the legal document. I`ve got them all. Everybody has them all.

GRACE: So out to you, Michael Mazzariello. How can he then argue this is all for him, nobody can read it? It`s gone around the world.

MICHAEL MAZZARIELLO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think this attorney should start worrying about John Karr`s criminal proceedings and stop worrying about intellectual properties. All those e-mails were attached to the search warrant -- freedom of the press. You can walk into the courtroom, get the file. We have them. You have them. I think he should concentrate on the criminal matter at hand. His client faces substantial time.

GRACE: Out to forensic psychologist Dr. Brian Russel. Brian, I know that you have pored over of the documents, as well as the recorded -- secretly recorded phone conversations. What is your opinion as to whether there are other child victims out there tonight?

BRIAN RUSSEL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Nancy, I think it`s highly likely. I mean, we`ve got a guy here who -- I haven`t examined him personally, but he appears to me to have progressive pedophilia throughout the course of his adult life. It looks like he`s got a delusional disorder of the erotomanic type, specifically, some profound personality pathology with histrionic and narcissistic features, maybe even gender identity disorder in the case of the possible sex change operation.

This is a sick guy, and I wouldn`t be comfortable having him on the streets of my town.

GRACE: Take a look at this map, the danger zones marked by his presence in various cities. -- Atlanta, Hamilton, Alabama, Petaluma, California. We also know of Boulder, Colorado, Bangkok, Thailand. The tip line, 707-565-2185 -- 707-565-2185

For those of you that haven`t heard the chilling but secretly recorded phone conversations, take a listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re -- you want to eat, drink, have sex, procreate. That`s your basic instinct. And so those little girls are so absolutely beautiful that you`re saying, you know, You`re a doll, you`re candy, I want to eat you, I want -- I want to eat you.

Is it -- do I want to eat you or do I want to have sex with you? They`re both very -- they`re both primal instincts. And they`re very similar, but are they the same? No, they`re not the same. I want love.


GRACE: Back to Brian Russel, forensic psychologist. When you hear these secretly recorded phone calls, do you really have any doubt in your mind that there is a danger zone not only in Hamilton, Alabama, Atlanta, where he was, Petaluma, California, as well as Boulder, Colorado -- we know he was there in year 2000 to get a psychic connection to JonBenet`s home -- and of course, Bangkok, Thailand? Do you doubt that there are actual victims there, Dr. Russel?

RUSSEL: Well, of course, I can`t say for sure, but I certainly wouldn`t doubt it. Like I said, I certainly wouldn`t want this guy on the streets of my town. I think this is a profoundly disturbed individual. I don`t think any of us in the profession of psychiatry or psychology really have an adequate explanation for anyone who could make the kind of statements that we just heard on that tape. I mean, at some point, you cross the line from mental disorder to just plain evil, and I think we`re there with this guy.

GRACE: Take a listen to more of secretly recorded phone conversations with John Mark Karr. Tonight, authorities investigating expanding a search warrant to find out just exactly what is on his Bangkok computer.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What it amounts to is I think that most of us are capable of having any of those fantasies, and it`s hard for me to differentiate between what -- what they mean, you know? Instead of thinking she`s pretty, you start to think she`s sexy. I guess at that point, you`re probably having a sexual attraction to that child.

Who else was I going to share that with? I`ve never driven by her house and said, There`s Polly Klaas`s house, I want that because I want her -- you know, I want her -- I mean, I want her so bad.


GRACE: To parents and guardians hearing this, especially those of you in Hamilton, Alabama, the surrounding area, Atlanta, Georgia, Boulder, Colorado, Petaluma, California, and of course, Bangkok, Thailand, have your children been exposed to John Mark Karr?

According to our special guest joining us tonight, Wendy Hutchens -- you can check out her educational Web site at -- he confessed to you to multiple child molestation victims, correct?

WENDY HUTCHENS, SAYS SHE SECRETLY RECORDED PHONE CALLS WITH JOHN MARK KARR: Yes, he did. He bragged about it, that he had had over 200 little girls in his car. He had been with them in a sexual manner.

GRACE: Why his car?

HUTCHENS: That was his little world. It was -- he could go all over the world with this car and go incredible places and take the little girls. Parents would let him take these little girls for drives, and he was -- he claimed to have molested hundreds of little girls in that car.

GRACE: And to Jean Casarez. We know he has always so obsessed with his car. Remember the red Delorean he had in high school? Remember that?


GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) been a story throughout his whole life.

CASAREZ: That`s right. Cars are important. His clothes are very important to him. I think we know that. This man is very interested in how his appearance is to others, whether it be a vehicle or what he`s wearing.

GRACE: It`s very interesting that we know this about him, and then in many of his conversations to Wendy Hutchens -- who, by the way, was working in conjunction with Sonoma County police when she recorded the phone calls at their request, she tipped them off to John Mark Karr`s existence and his repeated confessions to not only killing JonBenet Ramsey but his fascination with sex with 6-year-old, 7-year-old girls and their deaths.

Let`s go to the lines. Theresa -- Theresa in Pennsylvania. Hi, friend.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m great. What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was wondering, why didn`t the Ramseys have their security alarm on their house that night she was murdered?

GRACE: Excellent question. To Jean Casarez. We`ve gone over and over and over what happened that night, and that night of all nights, Jean, Christmas night, when many, many millions of people`s homes full of Christmas gifts, expensive loot.

CASAREZ: I don`t think we`ll ever know for sure, but I guess common sense tells us we all forget to do it. I have a security alarm on my home. I can forget to do it. You may, too.

GRACE: Never.



CASAREZ: All right. Well, you`re perfect. I`m not. And sometimes I`ll be upstairs and...

GRACE: Far, far, far from perfect. We all know -- back to Mike Brooks. You know Mike well by now, security expert and former D.C. police detective. Those closest to a victim are always the first suspect. Always.


GRACE: And the Ramseys are no exception. They are the ones that advised police that they had left the alarm off that night of all nights, Mike Brooks.

BROOKS: Absolutely. And you know, why they did that, we`ll never know. I mean, they`ve never been able to really answer that question. But when you start an investigation like this, you try to eliminate the people closest to them -- the parents, the brothers and sisters, any friends and associates, neighbors.

GRACE: Oh, wait, wait, wait! Don`t even bring up brother to me, Mike, because at the time JonBenet was killed, her brother, Burke -- there`s no way, if you look statistically, that that young boy had anything to do with this. In fact, JonBenet, I think -- I think she could have cracked him in half. He was a very frail young boy at the time. Now he`s grown up and he`s in college and he`s making a life for himself. But at the time, remember, Mike, he was very frail and thin. No way was that kid involved in JonBenet`s murder. Forget it!

BROOKS: But all family members, Nancy, were looked at, at the initial -- during the initial investigation, even the brother.

GRACE: And Jean Casarez, why? Why the alarm not off?

CASAREZ: You know what? Look at Boulder. They had an alarm in the home. But Boulder, Colorado -- there`s not a lot of crime there, and you can live day to day not really thinking you need to use it. And you know how many murders were in 1996, right?

GRACE: OK. Yes. I don`t buy it.

Out to Amy in Pennsylvania. Amy, hi, friend.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I`m just sick. If Karr writes this disgusting book, can the Ramseys sue him for defamation of JonBenet? I mean, I hate to see him make a penny off that.

GRACE: Excellent question. Let`s go out to international attorney Dick Atkins. Can they?

DICK ATKINS, INTERNATIONAL ATTORNEY: You can sue anybody for anything, but it`s unlikely that he would have any chance of realistic success. It would be thrown out of court.

GRACE: So they would be suing on behalf of a deceased victim. I don`t know if that would stand up in court, Dick, to sue on behalf of JonBenet`s reputation?

ATKINS: It`s a little bit complicated. That`s not my area of expertise. It`s...

GRACE: What about it, Michael Mazzariello?

MAZZARIELLO: Nancy, he hasn`t been charged with a crime. I mean...

GRACE: I didn`t ask you if he`d been charged with a crime!


GRACE: We`re talking about a civil lawsuit on behalf of JonBenet Ramsey. That is Amy in Pennsylvania`s question. And I say no.

MAZZARIELLO: Right. I agree with Dick, anybody can sued for anything. But I would agree with you, no.

GRACE: OK. So you want it both ways. Fine, Michael. We`ll come back to you in a minute. Spoken like a true defense attorney, out of this side, then that side. There you saw it. Classic.

Take a listen to this phone call. OK. Let me know when you get that, Liz.

To Wendy Hutchens, who is here with us tonight, cooperated with local police for a very long time. Tonight, the question is this. Are there going to be charges with other child victims? Right now, John Mark Karr waiting in a Boulder jail cell for extradition. We know the judge is considering expanding that search warrant to look at his computer. Will there be other child victims, based on what he told you.

HUTCHENS: Oh, I definitely think so. For one thing, back in 2001, they had gotten cases started against him in two other states, one for child molestation and one for a child abduction and disappearance. So I know back in 2001, investigations were started in two states on him already, and that was just at the beginning. Now that he is, you know, worldwide face and sound and name and everything, I`m hoping that there`s going to be a lot more coming forward.

GRACE: To a special guest and colleague, Marc Klaas, president of Beyondmissing. He was unfortunately dragged into this whole sordid story, his daughter, Polly Klaas, a murder and assault victim many, many years ago. John Mark Karr had an extreme fascination with this little girl, as well. Marc Klaas, don`t you believe that there are multiple danger zones across this country, based on -- as we hear more and more of them -- these horrific tapes and e-mails?

MARC KLAAS, BEYONDMISSING.COM: Regarding this guy? I absolutely do. And one would only hope that this international man of mystery created by Mary Lacy -- we would hope that other victims will come forward so they will find something substantive to charge him with, so they can put him in prison, so that at some point, they can kick in civil commitment laws, just so we can keep this creature off of our streets!

GRACE: You know, Marc, when I think of the way that you`ve been pulled back into this, having to relive Polly`s murder -- we`ll all be right back. Plus, when we get back, an expert telling us how the feds may join in on a sexual tourism charge.

But quickly, to "Case Alert." Look, Mom, I graduated to the top 10 -- the FBI`s 10 Most Wanted, that is. Tonight, polygamist leader Warren Jeffs in shackles where he belongs -- it`s been a long time coming -- Jeffs waiving extradition to Utah after being captured near Vegas, now facing charges of rape and arranging sex with little girls, Jeffs also charged in Arizona for arranging marriages between underage girls and much older men. The leader of a breakaway Mormon sect, Jeffs, who controls a multi-million dollar empire, was captured during a routine traffic stop with one of his estimated 80 -- that`s right, eight-zero -- wives and brother.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not so much I`m concerned that they`re exploiting her, it`s just that I don`t -- I want them to get their bloody hands off her, is what I want. If I saw anything on the Internet about her, I would die! It would just be disgusting. Who are those disgusting strangers who would dare talk about her?


GRACE: Very complicated legal term for that. It`s called total perv. And Jean Casarez saw him in court, and the perv has no hair on his arms. It`s all been lasered off in preparation for his sex change, right, Jean?

CASAREZ: Well, I don`t know about that.

GRACE: Not that there`s anything wrong with that!

CASAREZ: I don`t know about that. I just can confirm that his arms have no hair.

GRACE: To Ellie (ph). Ellie, didn`t we confirm that he was set up for a sex change in Thailand?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, well, there were actually two different doctors in Thailand, one who said he`d gone there to get some kind of treatment -- we don`t know what -- and then another one who said he`d gone there for the laser hair removal, he believed in preparation for...

GRACE: OK. Good to know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... sex change.

GRACE: Let`s go out to the lines. Shirley in Mississippi. Hi, Shirley.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m great. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, has anyone done any kind of background financial check on this guy? Supposedly, he owned a Delorean. He flew to Thailand. He`s going to have a sex change operation. We know none of the things are inexpensive. Where did his money come from?

GRACE: Listen, I got my teaching certificate. You don`t make that kind of money being a substitute teacher. Jean Casarez, where`s he getting the dough for all his jet-setting?

CASAREZ: It`s a great point. I can`t tell you where he got it when he was over here, but when he was over in Thailand and some of these other countries, it`s a very good thing to be an English teacher in a private school, and you can make some good money as to the standard of living in Thailand. So I don`t think he was penniless, although the room that he was staying in was $183 a month.



HUTCHENS: I read on the Internet that on his current resume he has up there, he brags about taking care of three little German girls. They were, like 5, 11 and 12, and talks about how part of the responsibility to bathe them at night and put them to bed. And I cried for hours after reading that.


GRACE: Tonight, an alert, danger zones from Hamilton, Alabama, to Boulder, Colorado, Petaluma, California, Albany, New York, all the way to Bangkok, Thailand, places that this man, John Mark Karr, has visited, researched and/or lived, exposed to children.

Out to the lines. Pauline in Massachusetts. Hi, Pauline.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Love your show.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nancy, I just have a question. Why did they wait so long for the police to intervene, when they were listening to all these tapes that Wendy was recording?

GRACE: I was wondering the very same thing. Wendy, why did they wait so long? I mean, you have massive numbers of tapes, and every one seems to be worse than the one before.

HUTCHENS: Well, like I said, it`s not illegal to say these things. It`s not illegal to write them down. You have to have evidence to connect somebody with a crime, and that`s not a crime to write these things down or say them. So...

GRACE: You know what?


GRACE: I think we`ve got a little competition, Michael Mazzariello and Dick Atkins, our two defense attorneys on tonight. She`s right. Under the freedom of speech, you can say practically anything you want to and it is not objectionable under the law. Michael?

BROOKS: Absolutely. And I give credit to her for cooperating with the authorities. If there was something there, Nancy, they would have got him. They were waiting for him to say something stupid, something they could corroborate, some kind of nexus to go and get some hard facts to make an arrest. But hours and hours of tapes, you can say what you want in this country. It`s the greatest in the world, Nancy.

GRACE: Back to Dick Atkins, the international attorney, who has worked in Thai prisons. Dick, I want to talk to you about sexual tourism...


GRACE: ... and what avenues that offers us to prosecute John Mark Karr at a federal level and get more than 12 months behind bars.

ATKINS: Well, there didn`t used to be much that could be done, but in the year 2003, the Senate and the House passed a new bill, the Protect Act of 2003, which provides for very heavy-duty penalties, some would say Draconian, but they`re really extreme and very, very heavy-duty.



TRACEY: You don`t like hearing other people talk about her?

KARR: I don`t want anyone else touching her or talking about her. Or I just don`t want -- I`m just very possessive of her. When I used to go visit her grave, I had that luxury, and other people had left things on the grave. I was just like, "Ugh." It just made me cringe.

I wanted to stay with her, because she was like a little daughter that I had. It was just caressing and her mother basically watched everything that ever happened between her and I.


KARR: Oh, yes, Her mother was there the whole time. I had a fantastic relationship with -- the mother actually admitted to me that she wanted to have sex.


KARR: And I didn`t...


KING: I mean, I didn`t do that. I`m a really loyal person. I have a real strong character.


GRACE: Well, we`ll see about that.

Tonight, John Mark Karr in isolation in a Boulder, Colorado, jail cell headed to California, facing child porn charges. But right now, he`s only facing misdemeanor charges.

Let`s go back to the lawyers, to A.J. Fardella and Jean Casarez, Court TV news correspondent and lawyer, to A.J., how can they actually peg him on sexual tourism? I know you said there are heavy penalties. But, A.J., how can they actually get him for sexual tourism?

A.J. FARDELLA, ATTORNEY: All they really need to do, Nancy, is to find proof that he`s gone ahead and went from country to country, first of all, seeking sexual acts that are also illegal in the United States. It`s one of the great things about the act.

When they do a forensic examination on his computer -- and when I speak about his computer, not the one from 2001, but the one that he brought back with him from Thailand -- regardless of how hard he thought he was erasing things, they`ll be able to go back, and get all of his correspondence, and probably track his movements for the whole time that he had the computer during his travels. So I think that they`ve got good chance of getting and building this case.

GRACE: Is that true, Dick Atkins?

ATKINS: Absolutely true. This law, besides creating a first offense penalty of 30 years incarceration, it also makes it easier to get a conviction, because you no longer, as you did under the old law, have to prove his intent in leaving the country. The fact that you can show that there were sexual acts with minors, that is going to be enough.

You don`t have to figure out what his intent was. The fact he did it while he was there or had pornographic pictures that he took or had in his possession involving the people there, that could be enough.

GRACE: OK. Let me get this straight, Dick. I handled a lot of violent felonies, but I never handled a federal sexual tourism charge. What are the elements they`ve got to show? Break it down for me.

ATKINS: Well, they have to show that he engaged in one of the illegal acts with a juvenile overseas.

GRACE: OK, sex with a child. Go ahead.

ATKINS: And that he -- that`s all they have to do. They don`t have to show that he intended to do it before he left the United States. That`s enough. And it can be proven by either a conviction in the foreign country, by testimony from the foreign country, by photographs, by computer access. It could be proven by anything.

GRACE: Out to Jean Casarez, Jean, the computer, the computer is the key. Where`s the computer tonight? How is it getting to California? When will the search warrant be okayed? And explain how many computers does this guy have?

CASAREZ: I think that`s the important question. There are two computers, all right? One is in California already. That`s from 2001, all right? We know that they`ve been looking at that. They`re trying to get another warrant to delve deeper into all of that.

But there`s another computer that stands untouched at this moment. That is the computer that he brought back from Thailand with all of his personal belongings. Now, Nancy, the 2001 computer that was used -- he had a wife, he had three young kids. Maybe he didn`t have all the freedom he wanted with that computer.

Well, this one in Thailand, it was in another country, didn`t a wife, didn`t have kids. We don`t know what he did. And if he not only possessed child porn but distributed it, e-mailed it to anyone in the United States, if they can get a warrant to look into that computer, that`s going to be allegedly a federal crime. Then he would become a registered sex offender and he could possibly could go under the Jessica Lunsford Act, which means electronic monitoring as a registered sex offender.

GRACE: You`ve been pushing them for that from the get-go. Jane, legal question. If he`s convicted only on the misdemeanor child pornographies, which means, translation, possessing child porn, if he`s only convicted on that, will he have to register as a sex offender in California?

CASAREZ: Yes. Answer is yes.

GRACE: OK. If it`s bumped up to a felony, which means he e-mailed even one picture -- and oh, P.S., update, I know a lot of you all saw our special about Masha, the 5-year-old Russian girl who adopted by an American pedophile. She is the number-one child porn star on the Internet. Allegedly this guy, John Mark Karr, has pornographic shots of that little girl. My, my, my, what a small world of pedophiles, Marc Klaas.

KLAAS: It`s not a small world of pedophiles, and that`s the problem. Because of the anonymity offered by the Internet, it`s become a huge world of sexual image trafficking in this world. And these guys are absolutely everywhere.

This is so dangerous. And unfortunately, nobody`s ever taken any responsibility. And it`s only recently that we`ve even become aware of this horrendous problem. But I`ll tell you what: This is the first good news I`ve heard out of this entire sordid affair, that they may be able to convict this guy on some international trafficking charges...

GRACE: Hey, Marc...

KLAAS: ... or sexual charges.

GRACE: ... what do you think about the sexual tourism statute? That would bring the feds in it. And you know the feds, they are cold. They don`t care about anything. Nobody`s going to be cutting any deals with them.

KLAAS: No, they`re absolutely not going to be cutting any deals, and that`s the deal, isn`t it, Nancy? I mean, really, the D.A. brings the guy back, has nothing on him, almost loosened him out on the world, and now it becomes everybody else`s problem to deal with it. And here`s a mechanism to possibly put him behind bars for the rest of his life. Finally some good news.

GRACE: Take a look at these danger zones, Marc Klaas, including Petaluma, your neck of the woods, Atlanta, Georgia, Hamilton, Alabama, Boulder, Colorado, Albany, New York, Petaluma, California, and across the oceans. In all of these places, John Mark Karr was exposed to young girls. He described in detail to Wendy Hutchens possibly 200 child victims.

Go ahead, Marc.

KLAAS: Well, there was just an Internet sting done in Petaluma, California, where 30 online pedophiles were nabbed over the course of the last weekend. And each one of those guys will be prosecuted. You can find these guys in every community in the United States of America.

GRACE: And all we need is one child porn image disseminated from his computer, that is why it is so important to this judge, Judge Wong, that she expand this search warrant. What`s her full name, Ellie?


GRACE: Judge Cerena Wong. If she expands the search warrant and allows authorities to look into this computer, his new computer, the one he had in Bangkok, right, Jean?

CASAREZ: No, you`re talking about the Sonoma County 2001 computer. That`s what they want the warrant to expand on, to see if new technology in the last five years has enhanced things so they can find some distribution.

GRACE: Well, if they look at the computer that he had in Bangkok, if he e-mailed child porn, e-mailed it to America, to an American e-mail address, wouldn`t that give us jurisdiction to prosecute on that computer, too?

CASAREZ: Yes, that`s exactly what I`m saying. That`s what I`m saying.

GRACE: Got you.

Let`s go to Joyce in Florida. Hi, Joyce.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. JonBenet`s parents were given a lie detector test early in the investigation, so why wasn`t John Karr given a lie detector test as soon as he confessed to killing JonBenet?

GRACE: I`ll tell you why. He very likely would not agree to a lie detector test. And remember, Joyce, as much as I advocate and I believe very strongly in lie detector results, they can be beat under certain conditions. They`re not admissible in a court of law unless stipulated up front before the test by both parties.

Quick break, everybody. We are taking your calls.

But something in order tonight, a congratulations. Tonight, congratulations to the U.S. Forest Service, the ATF, the FBI, Union and Hall County sheriff`s departments, and the DEA Georgia. They busted two of the biggest crystal methamphetamine rings in history, seizing 341 pounds of meth buried behind an upscale local residence, Gainesville, Georgia. The total: $50 million worth of meth. Multiple suspects arrested and charged tonight, this on the heels of a 187-pound meth bust confiscated, Buford, Georgia.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What you see lying on the table before you is another step towards dismantling illegal drug and firearms organizations, keeping our neighborhoods safe, and preventing the destruction of life.





KARR: When I was a teenage boy, between you and I, a total secret, when I was a teenage boy, I used to (bleep) and think about my mom and how I -- we went all the way.


KARR: It was a weird thing. And my mom was just a mess. I mean, she -- her life was like a total wreck. She was a wreck. She`s like Mrs. Ramsey now.


GRACE: After hearing what we have been hearing for sometime -- and believe you me, we have edited out the worst parts -- these are the danger zones where John Mark Karr has been exposed to countless young girls, Albany, New York, Atlanta, Georgia, Petaluma, California, Boulder, Colorado, and beyond. Is there any way to stop this guy? He is walked, obviously, on the murder of JonBenet Ramsey. But what about assaulting young girls? What about what we`ll find on his computer? Child pornography?

Out to a very special guest joining us, you know him well, Marc Klaas, president of Beyond Missing. Marc, this was right in your neighborhood.

KLAAS: Well, yes. It is right in my neighborhood, and this guy`s going to be back in my neighborhood. And I`m going to, I guess, continue to have deal with these perverted fantasies and hear them played out over and over again. Unfortunately, there`s nothing that I can do about that.

One just hopes, Nancy, that, given the information you have provided tonight, and talking about the sexual tourism, that they will find a way to put this guy behind bars where he can never get his hands on another innocent child.

GRACE: And to Detective Lieutenant Steve Rogers, computer forensics expert, explain to us computer dummies -- just break it down -- how they`re going to go about doing this?

STEVEN ROGERS, COMPUTERS SPECIALIST: Well, I`ll tell you, Nancy, three important elements of this case were brought up on your program tonight. One you brought up.

The key of this case may be in his computer, and it`ll take one image. Secondly, Jean brought up, if the police could get enough evidence in those computers to bring this up to a level of distribution, he`s going to triple, in reference to the problems.

And very importantly, one of your callers brought up, the financial transactions that may be on that computer. That`s very important, because that will lead police to the tourism issue. The fact that maybe he traded for money information and pictures with other individuals.

So the police are going to be looking at all of this. And as I`ve said so often, there are electronic footprints from his computer to everyone else`s computer that he communicated with. And you can bet your bottom dollar the police are going to follow those footprints.

GRACE: Wow, Detective Lieutenant Steve Rogers, you make it sound so simple. I hope they`re listening in Sonoma County, California.

ROGERS: Well, Nancy, the hardest part is going to be getting that search warrant. And that`s always the hardest part.

GRACE: Oh, please! All they had to do is watch this show and there`s plenty of P.C. to get that search warrant. Judge Wong, I hope to God you`re listening.

Everybody, you just heard a few moments ago Glenn Beck mention a very disturbing case, a mild-mannered local attorney in Ivoryton, Connecticut, considered by many in his neighborhood to be a computer geek, a little bit of a nerd. Dives through the window of the next door neighbor and begins to stab him in the chest. Why? The next door neighbor, a 58-year-old former councilperson, according to lawyer`s wife, accused of molesting their little girl.

I want to go out to Bill Bittar, reporter with "Fairfield Minuteman." What happened?

BILL BITTAR, REPORTER, "FAIRFIELD MINUTEMAN": Hi, Nancy. Thanks for having me on. This is a tragic story of neighbor against neighbor. Police believe that Edington arrived home from work at 4:30 and received a phone call from his wife that she told him that their 59-year-old Colony Road neighbor Barry James molested their 2-year-old daughter.

They believe he flew into a rage and immediately went next door to confront his neighbor, that he climbed through Barry James` window, where he attacked him and stabbed him several times, leaving him on the floor. When police and firefighters arrived on the scene, James was still alive, but he was bleeding heavily from the chest.

Paramedics rushed him to Bridgeport Hospital, where he was eventually later pronounced dead at 5:42. Officers at the scene had discovered Edington in his kitchen...

GRACE: Joining us with the "Fairfield Minuteman," Bill Bittar with all of the facts.

And very quickly, to Fairfield Police Department Captain Gary McNamara. Did the guy, the victim, Barry James, have other erratic behavior in the neighborhood, Captain?

CAPT. GARY MCNAMARA, FAIRFIELD POLICE DEPARTMENT: Nancy, we`re still investigating that. But we`ve only one report of an incident involving Mr. James and Mr. Edington, at that point in the early part of June, actually June 30th, the late part of June. Mr. Edington did report that Mr. James had been at his window in various stages of undress.

GRACE: Exposing himself?

MCNAMARA: Well, not necessarily exposing himself, but through the window they could see into his window. And...


GRACE: Well, isn`t it true he had alcohol issues, including a DUI, and other neighbors claim, according to reports, erratic behavior in the neighborhood?

MCNAMARA: Yes, well, we`re still investigating those reports. This one incident in particular, he was seen in the window. Our officers went to the scene, we investigated it, and determined no criminal action at that time.



KARR: When I was a teenage boy, between you and I, a total secret, when I was a teenage boy, I used to (bleep) and think about my mom and how I -- we went all the way.


KARR: It was a weird thing. And my mom was just a mess. I mean, she -- her life was like a total wreck. She was a wreck. She`s like Mrs. Ramsey now.


GRACE: How many child victims are there? Here are the danger zones regarding John Mark Karr, all across the country and beyond. He`s sitting in isolation. Tonight, a brand-new lawyer taking over the case, Robert Anparan (ph). Special specialty: civil commitment and federal courts, as a tip-off. Karr now corresponding regarding movie and book rights from behind bars.

You heard a secretly recorded conversation by police informant Wendy Hutchens. Since all of this has broken wide on the national TV screen, what are your thoughts?

HUTCHENS: First of all, I`m really sorry that the parents of Polly Klaas and JonBenet have to hear this stuff over and over again and I took it into consideration before I released it. But I thought it was important that people know about this predator and that we connect him to other cases.

GRACE: Our only hopes now, a sexual tourism federal charge. And that Judge Cerena Wong will expand her search warrant.

Tonight, let`s stop, let`s stop and remember Marine Private First Class Christopher White, just 23, Elizabethtown, Kentucky. He joined the military straight from high school. On his first tour of duty, he bonded with little Iraqi children, handing out candy while on patrol. White leaves behind a loving family, including a younger brother and a fiancee he planned to marry when he came home. Christopher White, American hero.

Thank you to all our guests. Our biggest thank you, to you, for being with us. And tonight, a special good-bye to one of our beloved staff members, Stacy Leitner (ph). She`s leaving us here at NANCY GRACE for a higher calling: to become a second-grade teacher. Break a leg, Stace. We miss you already.

Nancy Grace signing off. See you right here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.