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Anna Nicole Smith Faces Eviction
Aired November 30, 2006 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Tonight, breaking news in the Anna Nicole Smith saga. The million-dollar question: Is she pregnant again, just months after her baby was born and her 20-year-old son, Daniel, died at her hospital bedside? And tonight, the former cover girl turned reality TV star faces the threat of eviction from her home in the Bahamas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOBBY TRENDY, ANNA NICOLE SMITH`S DECORATOR: There`s so much drama around Anna and them, if it wasn`t for bad luck, they wouldn`t have any at all. I don`t know who the father is. I understand Anna`s being evicted from Mr. Thompson`s home in the Bahamas. You know, she said it was a gift. Honey, I wouldn`t even give one of my Christian Lubaton (ph) shoes away, much less a million-dollar home. It seems to me that they were just squatting there. I know Howard wants everything free all the time. That`s in his nature. But it doesn`t work with property, honey. That`s trespassing, not squatting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening, everybody. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, filling in tonight for Nancy Grace. Imagine being at the center of an international furor over your two children, One recently died tragically, and drugs are believed to have played a role. Another one was just born, and two are claiming to be the dad. That is the very situation former centerfold Anna Nicole Smith finds herself in. So what does she do? She announces in front of a rolling camera that, well, she might be pregnant yet again. Naturally, that remark set off another tidal wave of controversy, even though she later said, Hey, I was just kidding, all this as eviction efforts against her kick into high gear. They want her out, like, now.
And let`s go straight out to investigative journalist Pat Lalama, who has some exclusive new information on a court ruling that just came down today on that paternity battle being waged by an LA photographer against Anna Nicole -- Pat.
PAT LALAMA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Jane, I`ve got some information just for you. Here it comes. In chambers today in Los Angeles, the judge presiding over this case decided that he, in fact, has jurisdiction over what he calls parentage issues. So what does that mean? That means, Will this child undergo genetic testing? He said, and I have this from about the most reliable source you can get it from -- he said, quote, "I fully intend to order genetic testing on this child."
The next hearing will be December 13. He`s expected to make it formal then. Now, Jane, the only thing that could get in the way would be her attorneys going before an appellate court and saying, No, no, no, no Los Angeles judge can make that ruling.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So in other words, the bottom line, genetic testing, paternity testing very likely, at least an order to that effect.
LALAMA: And that makes a big difference in this case. That`s what we`ve been wondering, when will it be ruled on, whether it be Jamaica or here or never? He`s saying he plans to do it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And what will she do when that ruling comes down? Lots of questions. But the big controversy tonight, the joke that Anna Nicole made to "ET." Let`s listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNA NICOLE SMITH: I think I might be pregnant again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that was Anna Nicole Smith in a brief but exclusive interview with "Entertainment Tonight." And later, off-camera, important to say, she told the producer she was only joking. Here`s the quote we have: "I think I might be pregnant again. I`m not ready, but Howard wants me to have another baby. He wants to have a baby boy."
I have to go straight out to psychoanalyst Bethany Marshall on this one. I mean, you know, who -- what mother could possibly make a joke about being pregnant again when you`ve just lost your 20-year-old son and you`ve just had a new baby and you`re at the center of two massive controversies? And this is not to attack Anna Nicole Smith. She`s a showbiz person. It is quite possible that a person like this would hide their heartbreak behind humor.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: She`s a show business person, but I think the best way to think about this is in terms of pathological narcissism. You`ve heard me use this term with her before. In pathological narcissism, the person feels they`re unique, above approach. They play by their own rules. They don`t have to adhere to the other rules that other people adhere to. And they view others as objects to exploit. And I think that`s the best explanatory principle for why she`s making these moves.
And she`s exploiting us, the public, by getting us to think that she and Howard Stern are an item and they`re going to have another baby and thus trying to prove that the current baby -- the father of the current baby is Howard Stern. And it`s really, I think, a huge manipulation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Bobby Trendy is weighing in on this, we understand. What a shock, right? He is the designer who was on her reality show. Let`s listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOBBY TRENDY, ANNA NICOLE SMITH`S DECORATOR: I haven`t spoken to Anna Nicole in a while because she kind of went off the deep end, you know, with the breast-baring, the baby talk on stage, and now babies and not knowing who the father is -- or knowing. I don`t know what`s going on in that world.
When I was on Anna`s show, I never saw her do any drugs in front of me, but it seemed like she was not normal, like most of my customers are, with her baby talk. She may have been on prescribed or unprescribed medication, but I never saw her take any. But she was quite different and bizarre.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, this is kind of a complicated issue. Criminal profiler Pat Brown, Anna Nicole Smith is maintaining and insisting Howard K. Stern, her lawyer/companion, is the father, although other people, including a woman in a declaration, said no. In fact, when she said to Anna Nicole at one point, allegedly, Hey, why don`t you go out to Howard K. Stern, Anna Nicole allegedly responded, Ew, gross, no way, which is mean, but we`re just quoting from a declaration here. Do you think this comment to "ET" was her way of trying to bolster the concept that she and Howard K. Stern are, in fact, intimate?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Oh, I absolutely think so, Jane. I mean, it is really funny the way they`re handling this whole thing. Obviously -- Howard Stern had made this comment. He said, Hey, look, I`m not going to give Birkhead the satisfaction of giving that DNA test. What? In other words, you wouldn`t want to just give up some DNA and say, Ha ha, it`s not your kid, it`s mine? That`s the easiest, simplest way to stop all the controversy and to get this whole thing over with.
Why not? Because, obviously, you`ve got a problem with giving that DNA up because you know darn well what the truth is. So I think she is trying to bolster this a little bit, say, See, he is my man and I`m with him all this time, and so we`re just continuing on our merry little way.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We wish we had Howard K. Stern here tonight to respond, but we do have him on tape. Let`s listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD K. STERN, ANNA NICOLE SMITH`S ATTORNEY AND COMPANION: Anna and I have been in a relationship and we love each other, and it`s been going on for a very long time. And because of my relationship as her lawyer, we felt that it was best to keep everything hidden, and we`ve actually done a pretty good job of that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, normally, if somebody says they`re the dad, you go, OK. But unfortunately, or fortunately, or for whatever reason, in this case, there`s a photographer in Los Angeles who is insisting that he is the father and has gone to court, as you heard from Pat Lalama, to try and prove that he`s the father and get a paternity test.
Then you have another wrinkle. You have this other man, who was a boyfriend at one time of Anna Nicole Smith, G. Ben Thompson. Now, he claims -- he claims that -- a shocker -- that Anna Nicole tried to convince him that he was the father of this baby girl until he turned around and said to her, Hey, I had a vasectomy, I couldn`t be the daddy, sorry. Now, that is really a shocker.
Pat Lalama, I understand you even have more information, that he may have some proof that she attempted to convince him he was the dad, or not?
LALAMA: All right. Let me go back to my wonderfully reliable source on this case, whom I trust implicitly. Here`s the deal. She`s claiming the house is hers -- and I have to get into this just very quickly. It was a gift. He said, No, no, I never -- no! And there`s no deed saying that it`s a gift.
Now, cut to -- she said, Well, guess what, Ben? I`ll buy the house from you -- now, this is according to my source -- I`ll buy the house from you if you sign the paternity papers, you sign the birth certificate. And he said, You`re out of your mind.
Now, according to my source, there is solid evidence proving this. I can`t go any further than that. That`s what I`ve got to tell you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, that is an absolute shocker. We do have a caller, but hold on, Leeann from Minnesota, because I want to follow the train of thought, go to Lisa Pinto, former New York state prosecutor and journalist. If that is true -- and of course, we have no proof that it is, and Anna Nicole may very well say and probably would say that`s absolute nonsense -- but if it`s true, is that using a baby as a commodity? Are there any laws against that?
LISA PINTO, JOURNALIST, FORMER NEW YORK STATE PROSECUTOR: Oh, that`s for sure, endangerment -- endangering the welfare of a child. I think the issue here is that once a California court gets jurisdiction, they`re going to consider the best interests of the child, of Danielynn. What is good for her? Is it good for her to be in a household where the mother is alleged to use drugs, where the mother`s first child died supposedly from a combination of antidepressants and allegedly controlled substance? What is going on in that household? Are they dyeing the child`s hair? Are they caring for the health and well-being of that child, or are they selling her out on the market to make a buck in the tabloids from the instant she -- you know, she was born?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. There are so many controversies surrounding Anna Nicole Smith, you literally need a scorecard. I actually had to write down one, two, three, four, five, six so I didn`t forget all the controversies.
Leeann in Minnesota, your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, did she ever receive any monies from her lawsuit concerning her dead husband, after she went to the Supreme Court?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, you know, that`s such an excellent question because a lot of people, Tia Brown, reporter with "In Touch Weekly," feel that this is all about money and the fact that she could stand, at some point, to make, what, half a billion dollars if she wins this effort?
TIA BROWN, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Yes, she can stand to win almost half of a billion dollars if she wins. So of course, if Larry Birkhead has custody of Danielynn, then he will get custody based on Anna Nicole`s income. So everyone is definitely scrambling for money.
Has Anna received any money at this point? No. And something else that people have to keep in mind. Anna has not had a steady flow of income from any types of jobs in many years. She did the Trimspa campaign, and she also did a reality series, but aside from public appearances, Anna does not have a steady stream of income.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Tia, didn`t she make some money when she told photos of her baby pictures and video of the baby immediately after it was born to some news outlets? I think she made something like $650,000?
BROWN: Yes. I mean, there have been ridiculous reports regarding how much money she made. We do know that she sold photos to two outlets and she was compensated for that. But again, these are in spurts. And that money is taxed. That money disbursed between all of her team. And she really has to have a stream of income for steady living, and Anna does not have that. So I think that a lot of this fighting is going on for the inheritance that`s to come, not the money that she actually has.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And now, Paul Batista, defense attorney, how would you defend Anna Nicole Smith? Let`s say this paternity case gets into court and she`s required to submit the paternity test? Let`s say the custody battle happens. The bottom line is that three men -- three men -- have been mentioned in connection with the birth of this one child as possibly being the daddy. Doesn`t look good.
PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It doesn`t look good. And you know, the only thing that will conclusively resolve the paternity issue is the DNA test of the child. Just giving up a strand of hair will give a basis for a DNA test. And she may well resist that order. It`s being issued by a California judge. She`s located in the Bahamas. Her attorneys have a right to contest that ruling by taking an appeal.
She also has the right to fight the eviction in the Bahamas. She`s got -- she`s -- all this talk about who Anna Nicole Smith is and what she does -- she hasn`t done anything illegal.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, you`re absolutely right. I mean, I think that it hasn`t been proven that she`s done anything illegal. It`s essentially inappropriate behavior that has gotten everybody`s eyebrows raised.
Psychoanalyst Bethany Marshall, are there some people, particularly showbiz people, celebrities, who seem to create drama? And some of it they bring on themselves because they want the attention, and then something that they don`t foresee happens, and suddenly, there`s just too much drama and their lives are spinning wildly out of control. I would call it, like, a drama vortex almost.
MARSHALL: Well, I think sometimes drama can be enlivening for certain people. But I think what we really have here is somebody who has really poor insight into what the consequences of her actions are going to be. And I`m going to go back to my concept of pathological narcissism, where there`s entitlement. Entitlement is when a person believes they deserve reward without appropriate achievement. So she may believe that she`s entitled to this house and entitled to money, but she doesn`t really have to work for it. We could call it drama, but on another level, it really turns her into a high-level grifter, as well.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Bethany, I also see this sort of addiction to negative excitement. And we see that with a lot of people. I mean, Hollywood is filled with people who are addicted to negative excitement. They want some kind of excitement, and if they can`t it for something good, Well, I`ll take it for something bad, at least unconsciously.
BROWN: Well, we have to think about where is her excitement generated from. The excitement may be from living on the edge. The excitement may be from just pulling it out at the last minute. It may be from evading the law. It may be from getting other people to take care of her without her really working for it or earning a living. And it may be from being adored. But it does create a great deal of drama in her life, that`s for sure.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And this one has really -- takes the cake. I mean, from the Supreme Court to reality TV to being possibly evicted from a mansion in the Bahamas, to tragedy, to childbirth, to fake weddings, where you jump off a ship into the ocean. What`s next? We`re going to come right back to it.
To tonight`s "Case Alert." A Los Angeles judge rejected a British woman`s claim that she is the mother of Jacko`s three children on a legal technicality. Nona Paris Lola Jackson (ph) filed a petition asserting she had a sexual relationship for years with the "King of Pop" and wants to play a role in the child custody agreement Jackson struck with ex-wife Debbie Rowe. The judge dismissed the motion, saying the U.K. native offered absolutely no evidence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRENDY: People ask me all the time if Anna took drugs in front of me. I`ve never seen her take any. If she did them and lots of them, she probably did them before I got there. Maybe she didn`t want to share. I don`t do any, so maybe they felt uncomfortable doing them around me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Welcome back. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, filling in for Nancy Grace. We are tracking a Caribbean storm called Anna Nicole Smith. She is making lots of waves in the Bahamas, where she is holed up in a million-dollar seaside mansion despite efforts to evict her as a flurry of controversies swirl around her. One of those controversies concerns drugs.
Now, I`d like to go out to Dr. Holly Phillips, internist. Certainly, Anna Nicole`s supporters say they have never seen any evidence whatsoever that she has used drugs. We have absolutely no proof of that. But there has been some speculation and question, Does she not want to take the paternity test because she`s afraid of what other substances might pop up if her child is subjected to that test?
DR. HOLLY PHILLIPS, INTERNIST: Well, that`s interesting. You know, generally, though, you can only detect drugs in an infant`s system for a very short time after childbirth. I think likely the child would not retain evidence of those substances at this time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So there is no fear there. That is probably a false speculation, then, on that part that she`s afraid of taking the paternity test because she`s afraid that some other drug might pop up on that.
But let`s get to perhaps the biggest controversy of all, is how did Daniel Smith, her son, die? He died in her hospital room, and he had arrived in the Bahamas from the United States and died shortly thereafter. And the number of drugs that we are found in his system and what drugs they were, Doctor?
PHILLIPS: He had quite a lethal combination of what we would call a drug cocktail here. He had methadone, which is used both in narcotics withdrawal, as well as in chronic pain. He had three different antidepressants, some sleeping medications, and I understand also some cough medications, over-the-counter medications. With this cocktail of medicine, one would need -- if it were, in fact, prescribed by one doctor, which seems unlikely, one would need very, very close monitoring. This is really quite a potent mix of substances.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And the reason it connects to Anna Nicole Smith, obviously, this is her son, died in her hospital room. But Paul Batista, defense attorney, a woman who is a former friend of hers gave a declaration in which she said, quote, "I was very curious and concerned as to what medications respondent" -- meaning Anna Nicole Smith -- "was taking while pregnant and viewed the label on the pill bottles, which indicated respondent was taking methadone."
Again, we have absolutely no evidence that that`s the case, and in fact, this woman made that accusation after it became public knowledge that the private autopsy had turned up methadone in Daniel`s system. But how would you defend against that if you were her attorney?
BATISTA: There were no accusations against Anna Nicole Smith that she was at all responsible for the death of her 20-year-old son. I would continue to emphasize that. All we have here is a -- no matter what you say about her psychological narcissism, the fact of the matter is, no one is accusing Anna Nicole Smith of any responsibility for the death of her son, Daniel.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Pat Brown, criminal profiler, isn`t it true that the government of the Bahamas is right now trying to decide whether to hold a public inquest, and that, obviously, a woman saying, Hey, I saw methadone pills when she was pregnant and she was taking them, an accusation -- wouldn`t that play a role in them deciding whether or not to hold a public inquest, which is essentially a mini-trial into her son`s death?
BROWN: Oh, yes. It`s going to influence whether they think there`s something worth looking at. The question is, Where did Daniel get these drugs? And if Anna Nicole had them or Mr. Stern had them and they were floating around and they give them to him, then they are -- they are -- helped cause his death, indeed.
And of course, on the other hand, what they may found out is that Daniel was simply hanging around with people who made very stupid choices in their lives, very narcissistic people, very self-centered people. And maybe he was no more smart than the rest of the people he was hanging with and he just took a bunch of stuff and did himself in. So they`re going to have to determine whether anybody contributed to his death or he just did it to himself.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And you know, the big mystery is that he did not have a reputation for using drugs, so that`s why it was so very shocking. He was considered a very clean-cut kid.
To tonight`s "Case Alert." Police continue searching for missing mother of three Margaret Haddican-McEnroe (ph). The 29-year-old woman vanished without a trace nearly two months ago in New Jersey. If you have any -- any -- information, please call Somerset County tip line, 888-577- TIPS.
Also on the docket, day eleven for another missing mom, Nonnie Dotson. The Air Force nurse disappeared near Denver, Colorado. The father of her 16-month-old daughter is reportedly refusing to talk to authorities. If you have any info, please call Jefferson County sheriff, 303-271-5612.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, filling in for Nancy Grace. What in the world was Anna Nicole Smith thinking when she cracked what now appears to be a joke about possibly being pregnant again, even as she sits in the middle of two massive controversies over the recent drug-related death of her adult son and the paternity of her newborn baby girl? And how is she going to cope with the increasingly aggressive -- and we mean aggressive -- attempts to get her out of the seaside mansion in the Bahamas she has been calling home?
And our viewers have many, many questions, as well. The phone banks are lighting up. Let`s go to Joanie in Florida. Your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. If Anna Nicole is evicted, will she be able to remain in the Bahamas or will she have to come back to the States?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Very good question. I think that there is a lot of controversy surrounding that, and I`ve heard, Tia Brown, reporter for "In Touch Weekly," that she has been house-hunting in the Bahamas. Why is it so important, from her perspective, to remain there?
BROWN: ... the Bahamas. She might not have to return to the States, but in order for her to be a resident and have the Bahamas have jurisdiction over the legal action, she will need to be a resident of the Bahamas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I understand a judge in Los Angeles wants Anna to come back and do the paternity test. Why hide it? It`s going to come out sooner or later, that information. Just come back, Anna, do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, filling in tonight for Nancy Grace. What is on the horizon for Anna Nicole Smith? Tonight, she is holed up in Horizons, the name of the seaside mansion in the Bahamas that she`s been calling home.
The problem is, a former friend says he`s the real owner, and he`s gotten a default judgment in his favor as part of his battle to evict her. Now, the clock is ticking, but does Anna Nicole Smith have some tricks up her sleeve?
Or investigative journalist, Pat Lalama, is it possible we will soon see footage of Anna Nicole Smith literally being unceremoniously dragged into the street with her belongings in tow? Because, Pat, you know the paparazzi have got to be staking out that mansion.
PAT LALAMA, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Oh, my gosh, can you imagine? Well, actually, there is a little bit of new information on this. I have learned that she has asked the courts for 90 days, that she said, "Oh, you know, I made a big mistake, and I didn`t really understand, and so I`m asking for 90 days."
But apparently Mr. Thomson is back in that same court or arena saying, "No, I did everything I was supposed to do." Now, ultimately -- and this happens here in the states, as you know -- if you don`t follow court orders, you can be removed. What they will do is lock up the house, and that`s what I was told today.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, once again, let`s listen to Anna Nicole Smith talking to "ET."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNA NICOLE SMITH, MODEL: I think I might be pregnant again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that was Anna Nicole Smith in an exclusive interview with "Entertainment Tonight," very brief, but very telling. Later off-camera, she told producers she was only joking about possibly being pregnant.
One of the fascinating things about this that`s hard to keep track of is that all of the controversies swirling around Anna Nicole Smith are kind of intertwined. The house is intertwined with the paternity test, because she wants to stay in the Bahamas so she can`t be forced to come back to the United States to have a paternity test on her newborn baby, which the L.A. photographer wants.
And the man who owns the house is a former boyfriend, and he is also connected into the paternity battle, because he claims that she once told him he was the father. I mean, it`s really absolutely astounding the complexity of the drama that Anna Nicole Smith gets into.
Paul Batista, defense attorney, they want her out, they want her out now. They say they got a default judgment. TMZ got the document. We`ve seen it; it looks very legit. He`s written a letter to Anna Nicole Smith and Howard K. Stern, saying, "Get out. Get out tonight. You have 48 hours since the default judgment," and that would be right now. They should be packing their bags and leaving. They say they don`t have to.
What`s the process? I mean, default judgment is not the same as an eviction notice; those are two different things.
PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely, Jane. You know, she`s either a lawyer`s dream or a lawyer`s nightmare, Anna Nicole Smith. When you`re sued anywhere, you have to answer the complaint. She apparently had until a specific date to file an answer to the complaint, meaning a written document put in the court.
And for whatever reasons -- again, it may well be her narcissism, it may be bad legal advice -- she let that date slip by, but she does have the right, she does have the right to go back into court and ask to be excused from the default judgment. And a judge has to make that determination.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, Pat, it`s amazing, Pat Brown, criminal profiler. I think that either Anna Nicole Smith could get a law degree at this point or she`s got a svengali that many believe is Howard K. Stern himself basically making all the chess moves for her. What do you think? Because it doesn`t seem to make sense. He is a lawyer. He says that they had the sales agreement and the conveyance documents to prove it they own that house, and yet the Monday deadline to show those to the court came up, and they reportedly did not show up with any paperwork.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, I think they`re both opportunists, and they`re using each other -- we don`t know what the reason they`re using each other for is, but they`ve got their reasons.
And, you know, as far as Anna Nicole goes, with a narcissistic personality, you`re always looking for the answer, and the answer could be anything you come up with next. It`s not necessarily logical, but it`s likely attention-getting that you love to seek. You just grab for the next thing, and, if that doesn`t work, you lie here. And if that doesn`t work, you steal there. And if that doesn`t work, cheat.
It really doesn`t matter, because you have no ethics or morals, so she just may be rolling onto maybe the next opportunity or next man, whatever she`s got in front of her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Lisa Pinto, former New York state prosecutor and journalist, you have observed many interesting people in action. What would you say? Is she the mistress of her own actions, or is she being sort of manipulated by a puppet master who is guiding her moves and, let`s face it, not giving her good advice? I mean, she`s on a downward spiral here.
LISA PINTO, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes, but he wasn`t there when she was 26-year-old dating the wealthy multimillionaire, so I think she`s had her own interests at heart from the beginning and managed this nonsense pretty well.
But I wonder what the first sonogram on this new baby is going to go for? What, a half a million for "InTouch Weekly"? I mean, this is such a disgrace -- I speak as a mother now. When I think about this little baby, who has a right to know who her father is, where he is, visit him, get to know him, have a relationship with him.
If he is Mr. Stern, then that could be shown and proved. And if it`s Mr. Birkhead, he should be able to at least have visitations and possibly sue for custody.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I mean, you make a very good point, because if Howard K. Stern is the daddy and they`re so sure about it, why do you have to fear a paternity test, right?
PINTO: Why do you have to fear any of this? Why can`t you show up in the courthouse in the Bahamas with your attorney who lives in the master bedroom with you and show this deed to the court? One is suspicious, if it exists. Apparently she had a relationship with Mr. Thomson. In a moment of passion, maybe he offered her the house, but there doesn`t seem to be a contract, an offer, an acceptance and a document. I don`t see it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Paul Batista, defense attorney, you have been the designated hitter for defending Anna Nicole Smith tonight, and we`re not out to get her. We`re out to understand her. We`re not here to trash her. I mean, she may have her own reasons, and we have to have compassion for her as a mother. She lost her son, and she`s said to be truly devastated.
But we`re trying to understand her contradictory behavior that doesn`t seem to make sense, you know, telling, for example the "Insider" that she was heartbroken, is not going to enjoy Christmas, that she couldn`t enjoy Thanksgiving. And then, on the other hand, making a joke about possibly being pregnant again in front of TV cameras. It doesn`t seem to track.
BATISTA: No, it doesn`t. I mean, a heartbroken mother who`s just lost a beloved son, over whom she had custody, by the way -- in the clip that we`ve been seeing where she`s, quote, "joking" about being pregnant again, that doesn`t look so heartbroken.
But, again, I can`t emphasize enough that nothing about her behavior is illegal. If the Bahamian authorities thought that she possessed illegal drugs, they`d just have to get a warrant and search wherever it is she`s been living or storing her stuff, and that hasn`t happened.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, you know, I think a lot of this behavior can be explained by kind of that showbiz mentality. I mean, I come from a showbiz background, and I know that the ethic is always -- Tia Brown, reporter for "InTouch Weekly" -- the show must go on, smile though your heart is breaking, and all that stuff, which is really a bad cliche, but a lot of people in showbiz do adhere to that. And so it could be a natural tendency of hers to put on this show when she really is heartbroken.
TIA BROWN, "INTOUCH WEEKLY": Definitely. Anna Nicole has always said that she`s been infatuated with Marilyn Monroe and she loves being in front of the camera. And even though a lot of the things that have been going on in her life right now are devastating, they still are an opportunity to keep her in front of America. And she is definitely using it to her advantage, whether it be the wedding, whether it be Daniel`s death, whether it be Dannielynn`s birth. She is using that. That does not mean that she is not going through a hard time, as well.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, what about this baby? Obviously, too young, infant, to know what`s going on, but psychologically is she being traumatized by all the drama surrounding her?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Of course she`s being traumatized. I mean, babies do pick up -- even when they`re in the womb, they pick up on the psychological state of the mother. There`s been longitudinal studies done on that.
But I want to make a comment on whether or not she`s devastated. I believe she is devastated at the loss of Daniel, but devastated because she cared about him as an individual with thoughts, feelings and motivations of his own, or because he was there to meet her needs, and he`s not there to do that anymore.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we will never know without being inside her head.
The landlord who wants to evict Anna Nicole Smith, G. Ben Thomson, may have the law on his side. Trial 101 here. Default judgment is a binding judgment in favor of the plaintiff when the defendant has failed to respond to a summons or appear in court. As we know, Smith missed the deadline to submit some key documents leading to a default judgment against her. A default judgment could allow Thompson to force Smith from that residence.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when she thinks about Daniel`s loss, it`s just incredibly difficult for her. And when she has her baby in her arms, that`s, you know, the one thing that can kind of snap her out of it. Anna`s a fighter. And somehow, some way, we`re going to get through this, and everything will be OK.
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DEBRA OPRI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Anna, I`m talking to you directly now, and I want you to listen to me, and I want you to hear what I have to tell you. If you are so certain, if you are so certain that Larry Birkhead is not the father, then you have nothing, absolutely nothing to lose by submitting to this jurisdiction and allowing a paternity test.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell filling in tonight for Nancy Grace.
The clock is ticking, as efforts intensify to get former playboy playmate Anna Nicole Smith out of her mansion in the Bahamas. Meantime, the pressure is also mounting to get her to allow a paternity test on her infant baby girl. And she is still awaiting a decision from the government of the Bahamas on whether they will be holding a public inquest, which is basically a mini-trial, on the tragic drug-related death of her 20-year-old son, Daniel.
As you may know, he died in a hospital room in the Bahamas as Anna Nicole recuperated from the birth of her baby girl in the very same room. Her lawyer and partner, Howard K. Stern, also in that room.
Tonight, so many questions: How many problems can one individual endure? Tia Brown of "InTouch Weekly," you`ve covered so many celebrity cases. You`ve seen them at work. This is really a unique situation, because she is across the board, from the Supreme Court to the Bahamas, from Los Angeles, three different possible fathers mentioned in connection with this child, the possibility of inheriting half a billion dollars. This is what I call living large, but maybe a little too large?
T. BROWN: Yes, I definitely think Anna Nicole is living everyone`s fairy tale and everyone`s nightmare simultaneously. I mean, you marry this rich guy. You know, everything seems like it will be beautiful, then it all falls apart.
Do we think that she`s enduring too much? How much can one person endure? Definitely she has to be close to reaching her breaking point. A lot of her friends and family and even Anna has admitted that she is taking medication at this time to deal with her depression.
And, again, who wouldn`t be depressed after losing a child, the threat of losing another child, and also possibly being evicted? So it`s a lot.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, you know, criminal profiler Pat Brown, I`m kind of reminded of the movie "Sunset Boulevard," at the end where the heroin says, "Mr. DeMille, I`m ready for my close-up," but yet she is being taken off to the mental institution or jail, I forget which. There is a sense where attention becomes a bad thing, where just being ready for your close- up is not a good thing. You don`t want the publicity.
Do you think some people like Anna Nicole may be blind to the fact that there is such a thing at bad press?
P. BROWN: Exactly. Exactly. Because if you are narcissistic, there is no bad press, because any attention you get is the attention you desire, because you want people to pay attention you day and night. And there`s a syndrome called Munchausen by proxy, which women kill their children. And they do that why? Because they want to have a nice funeral, because they want people to go, "Oh, you poor dear," and then they`ll get pregnant again so people say, "Oh, my god, you`re pregnant again." And then they kill again, so people say, "Oh, you poor dear." So they go on and on like this. It`s a cycle, because it`s always an attention-getting cycle and, whether it`s bad or good, it`s good enough.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And she lives on extremes. I can`t help but comment, as I look at the video of her -- and she is such a gorgeous woman -- her look, her image changes. You know, she`ll be very heady-set, and then she`ll be very thin. She`ll be very curly-haired or -- I mean, it`s just like maybe she doesn`t have, Bethany Marshall, a sense of her own identity, who she really is at her core, and therefore she has to create these masquerades and get this attention to kind of define herself.
MARSHALL: Or maybe she assembles herself for the camera, and so her sense of self is how she sees her self reflected in the eyes of others, but she`s not seeing herself reflected very accurately in the eyes of others. You know, part of good mental health is we know how we come across to other people.
But I would wonder if she really knows how she comes across to other people. And you were wondering, how much more can she take? We have to remember, we`re all the architects of our own experience, so she has created this life for herself. So while it might be stressful to us, on some level, it might be quite comfortable to her, because this is how she`s lived for a good deal of time now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, she certainly handles stuff that a lot of other people literally would have a nervous breakdown.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s go to the phones, Linda in Texas, your question?
CALLER: My question is, is I`d like to know what kind of financial support is Mr. Stern contributing to Anna Nicole and the baby?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, wow. Pat Lalama, investigative reporter, that is a really good question, because there is evidence, is there not, that they could be having money problems? I understand that Cyril Wecht, the independent pathologist they hired to do the private autopsy, has said recently that he has not been paid for doing that work, so that would indicate the possibility of a money problem.
LALAMA: I think it`s very clear, Jane -- although I have to admit, I have not seen their spreadsheets, and it wouldn`t be fair for me to, you know, emphatically say they`re broke -- but for all intents and purposes, from all the people I`ve spoken to, he seems to be sort of mooching off her, but as was said previously, she does not have a steady flow of income.
I think they`re simply just trying to get by every day with what little they have. And you`re right: He has not been paid. And as far as I know, Jane, I don`t know of any other clients that Howard K. Stern has.
Oh, by the way, can I just tell you one other quick thing while we`re here regarding the Bahamas? You know, there`s another thing going on. There`s a big scandal going on down there now, because the newspapers -- now, let`s be fair to Anna Nicole -- they may not like her presence there, some reporters, and there are implications, in fact, some newspaper reportage has indicated that she is having a, quote, "inappropriate relationship" with the minister of immigration and that it`s causing this great problem down there, because some of the islanders want her to get the heck off. Others are kind of infatuated by her presence -- I`m going to guess this would be men -- and so it`s helping her cause. Go figure.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my gosh. Lisa Pinto, former New York state prosecutor, does politics like this enter into a decision into whether or not to have a public inquest, which again is a mini-trial? This has become a political storm in the Bahamas, scandals engulfing the prime minister, and all sorts of minister.
PINTO: Well, Jane, in the British system, you can choose -- the ruling party can choose when to call the election, as they call it. They are putting off the election because of the horrible press that they`ve gotten from Anna Nicole, not just the allegation that she`s sleeping with him, but that she paid off the immigration minister to the tune of $10,000, which he denies and she denies.
But the island is in an uproar over these preferential treatment this woman has gotten. I mean, she was supposed to pay the mortgage, which apparently she never did. You know, her inquest was raised to the top of the pile. They`re outraged.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With Howard`s guidance, I don`t know why he`s telling her not to come back to do that paternity test. What I really think is Howard wants the baby to be his; he wants to live a pretend lifestyle. Howard is all about pretend. That baby isn`t his.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in tonight for Nancy Grace. Some closing thoughts on a life that had been so full of promise but has now really turned really tragic. Let`s face it: Anna Nicole Smith has become a public spectacle, and yet she continues to make inappropriate moves. My question to the panel, starting with Pat Brown, what should she do to stop the madness?
P. BROWN: Well, she could do a lot to stop the madness. She could be honest, she could be open, she could be decent, but are we really expecting that of someone who`s had a lifelong venture into this kind of behavior? I wouldn`t think so.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tia Brown, what should Anna Nicole do to stop the madness?
T. BROWN: Well, an easy way to stop everything would be to come forward. But let`s face it, Anna Nicole likes being a celebrity. And in this day and time, you don`t necessarily have to have a talent to be attached to being a superstar, and Anna is a superstar for the drama, for her look, for all of those things, so she`s going to continue.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Paul Batista, what would you say to her if you had one piece of advice?
BATISTA: One piece of advice would be to continue on the course that she`s continuing on. Again, nothing illegal, nothing criminal has surfaced, and she is able to conduct legal battles, as is her right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lalama, your last word?
LALAMA: Oh, I just want to say, that`s not necessarily true, because there are allegations that, on her forms in the Bahamas, she lied about her criminal past. And that`s an important issue to becoming a resident. She said she had none, and I am told -- by good sources -- that she`s been arrested, not for anything really huge, over, let`s say, five or six times over the last 15 years or so.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I would tell her, listen to Jiminy Cricket, let your conscience be your guide, if you can possibly do that, Anna Nicole, if you`re listening tonight.
Tonight, we remember Specialist Timothy Adam Fulkerson, just 20 years old, of Utica, Kentucky. Fulkerson, known for his positive attitude and sense of humor, is survived by his mother, Tammy, father, Timothy, and uncle Gregg Skaggs, who raised him since he was in his early teens. Specialist Timothy Adam Fulkerson, an American hero.
We`d like to thank all of our guests for their insights, and thanks to you at home for tracking these important cases with us. I`m Jane Velez- Mitchell filling in tonight for Nancy Grace. Nancy will be back tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Be sure to tune in. Until then, have a wonderful and a very safe evening.