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Nancy Grace

O.J. Kicked Out of Louisville Steakhouse

Aired May 09, 2007 - 20:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, NFL Hall of Famer and double murder suspect O.J. Simpson in the headlines again. Why won`t he go away? The former football great who beat the rap on double murder finally gets a little of what he deserves -- the boot, Simpson partying at the Kentucky Derby like a superstar until a plucky restaurant owner stands up to Simpson, refusing his money and sending him elsewhere.
And tonight: Why should the century`s most notorious killers profit, selling everything from hair to toenails online? It`s blood money. It is wrong. And tonight, we want justice!

And tonight, to Chicago. A young mom goes missing in upscale Chicago suburb, reportedly for a jog, never heard from again. No way would she leave her two children behind, says family and friends. And tonight, we learn her husband refuses a polygraph.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 37-year-old mother of two disappeared on Monday.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her family says she would not leave on her own.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This isn`t like Lisa at all. She`s a devoted mother with two children, age 10 and 12. She had a job as a lunch lady at the school, purposefully so that she could always be home for her children when they came home from school.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody misses our Lisa -- friends, family. She`s a caring, concerned, fun-loving, dedicated mother, a good, good person. And we need her back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is now a reward of $20,000 that we hope will bring in some tips leading to the finding or the location of Lisa Stebic, our missing loved one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her family and her friends want to believe the best but know something here is wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was not unusual for her to leave and go work out in the evening. However, he says he was in the back yard and did not see if she left or was picked up. What`s hard to understand is that her car is still in the family garage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was Monday. She left home here, supposedly to go work out. And as far as I know, somebody picked her up. And come Tuesday morning to go to work, she wasn`t here. And I called all of her friends. Nobody`s seen her.


GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. First, O.J. Simpson parties like a mega-star until somebody says, Not in my house.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: O.J. Simpson kicked out of a restaurant. Well, here`s what happened. O.J. stopped by a steakhouse with some friends while he was attending the Kentucky Derby in Louisville over the weekend. When another diner mentioned to the owner, Jeff Ruby, that O.J. was there, Ruby went right up to O.J. and said, I`m not serving you.

JEFF RUBY, OWNER OF JEFF RUBY`S RESTAURANTS: I am not going to let him sign autographs in my restaurant. I knew that was coming. I walked over to him, and there wasn`t anyone else at the table. I guess he was waiting for the rest of his party. (INAUDIBLE) I`m not serving you. (INAUDIBLE) I`m not serving you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, Ruby believes O.J. killed his wife, Nicole Brown, and her friend, Ron Goldman. Of course, you remember that Simpson was found not guilty in a 1995 criminal trial, but he was found guilty -- or liable, rather, in the civil trial that followed. Oh, and get this. O.J.`s lawyer said that Ruby`s move was racially motivated and intends to go after him on O.J.`s behalf.


GRACE: O.J. Simpson back in the headlines again. Why won`t he go away? And why is he at the Kentucky Derby, partying with Queen Elizabeth from Great Britain? Somehow, it`s just not all fitting together for me.

Joining us tonight, a very special guest, the senior editor of "The Enquirer." Don`t tell me you don`t read it in the grocery store lines. Mike Walker is with us. Mike Walker covered the Simpson trial from beginning to end, actually unearthing -- wasn`t it you that uncovered the whole Bruno Magli thing, and it ended up in your magazine before the state could figure out how to get it into evidence?

MIKE WALKER, "NATIONAL ENQUIRER": Yes, just a couple of weeks late, unfortunately, a few weeks late, because if we`d had that evidence in the criminal trial, O.J. Simpson would not have been, as the AP put it -- I love this phrase -- declared an innocent. He was not declared innocent, he was declared not guilty, as you know, Nancy. But yes, we found the Bruno Magli shoes, the so-called "ugly-ass shoes" that O.J. said he had never owned. Those are the same shoes that had the bloody footprint. And that was...

GRACE: You know, Mike, the outrage continues, even at the Kentucky Derby. What happened?

WALKER: Well, again, I`ve always said, O.J. -- it`s one thing to believe, if you want to, that O.J. did not kill Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman. OK. Fine. Everybody`s entitled to their opinion. But O.J. -- if O.J. really loved his wife, as he says he did, and he did not kill her, why would he be running around, posturing, doing things like a reality show, where he pops out of the bushes and yells at people, You`re juiced! Why would he be putting out a book that says, "If I Did It," sort of titillating us? Why can`t he simply just live a normal life, like other people?

But I come from south Florida, and I`ve seen him prancing around Miami with that big smiley face of his, like a killer clown. And he is lording it over us. He`s out of reach. He`s in Florida, Nancy, where, as you know, in my state, you can go and disappear and they can`t take your house away from you because of homesteading laws, and so forth. And he lives on his pension, and he sneaks out and does these autograph things at conventions, where he collects money, slips the money to a bag man so that Fred Goldman and the Browns can`t get ahold of any part of that $33.5 million judgment.

GRACE: To Court TV`s Jean Casarez. Jean, Mike Walker is absolutely correct. But now he`s made a spectacle at a place called Jeff Ruby`s Restaurant there in Kentucky. What happened?

JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: That`s right, Jeff Ruby`s Steakhouse. What happened -- this is the night before the Kentucky Derby. He walked into the restaurant with 12 other people. They sat in a back room. And the owner of the restaurant -- this man, Jeff Ruby, he owns steakhouses in various states, but he happened to be at that restaurant that night. And a patron came up and was just giddy, was the word he used, that O.J. Simpson was actually there in the restaurant. He decided...

GRACE: You mean the patron was happy and excited?

CASAREZ: Yes. Yes. Giddy. So he decided he didn`t want that environment in his restaurant. He went to O.J. Simpson and he said, I am not going to serve you tonight. O.J. Simpson, he said, was quiet, stood up, said he understood. He and the other 12 people walked out.

GRACE: Is it true that one of the women in Simpson`s party had words?

CASAREZ: Well, I believe that there was a lot of actual -- people were excited that he was there. But it was Jeff Ruby that decided that he didn`t like O.J. Simpson, based upon the fact that he was trying to sell a book, "If I Did It," and also determined that he just didn`t want that person in his restaurant.

GRACE: You know -- back to Mike Walker with "The Enquirer" -- Mike, it seems that a lot of people have the same sentiment, but this guy, Jeff Ruby, was one of the few people who actually said, Oh, no, not here, I don`t want your money.

WALKER: Yes. It`s something to applaud because his point -- Mr. Ruby used a phrase that impressed me. He said he does not like the way O.J. continues to torture these families, speaking of the Browns and the Goldmans, with his attitude, behavior and conduct. That`s what he does. I mean, he`s constantly trying to mount reality shows. He tried to do a porn film, which we caught him doing, that he was going to sell overseas in an offshore Bahamas situation...

GRACE: Hey, Mike, Mike, Mike! Mike Walker, look, I can only take so much. Don`t make me think of him without his clothes on. Please don`t.


GRACE: I can`t go that far.

WALKER: Nancy, I mean, look at all of these blond women who look like Nicole who throw themselves at him. I have seen this. I understand what Jeff Ruby is saying. It does sicken you to see this, whether you believe he`s innocent or not.

GRACE: I also understand that a woman in O.J.`s party, probably a blonde, got up in Ruby`s face, complaining that he wouldn`t serve Simpson.

WALKER: Yes, we heard that. And that`s what is so amazing, the way O.J. is defended, the way people get passionate about it. It`s like Mr. Ruby said. The customer is saying they were giddy. I mean, giddy? Because of O.J. Simpson? Why would you be giddy that O.J. Simpson is there? There`s only one reason.

GRACE: Well, here`s -- what`s the one reason?

WALKER: Prurient interest, OK, the same impulse, I guess, that makes you buy "The Enquirer."

GRACE: I don`t know if I`d go that far, Mike Walker. Hey, guys, here`s the real twist in this. It`s not that Jeff Ruby says, No, I don`t want your money, get out, Simpson. Now people are actually attacking the restaurant owner, and he`s being threatened with a lawsuit for discriminating against O.J. Simpson because he didn`t want him in his restaurant.

Take a listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: O.J. Simpson kicked out of a restaurant. Well, here`s what happened. O.J. stopped by a steakhouse with some friends while he was attending the Kentucky Derby in Louisville over the weekend. When another diner mentioned to the owner, Jeff Ruby, that O.J. was there, Ruby went right up to O.J. and said, I`m not serving you.

O.J. left calmly. Ruby says that the other diners gave him a standing ovation for throwing O.J. out. Now, Ruby believes O.J. killed his wife, Nicole Brown, and her friend, Ron Goldman. Of course, you remember that Simpson was found not guilty in a 1995 criminal trial, but he was found guilty -- or liable, rather, in the civil trial that followed. Oh, and get this. O.J.`s lawyer said that Ruby`s move was racially motivated and intends to go after him on O.J.`s behalf.


GRACE: That was from "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" here on HEADLINE NEWS. They`ll be covering this later on tonight.

You know, it`s amazing that now a lawsuit is being threatened against this guy. And we`re going to unleash the lawyers in just a minute. But first, joining us tonight is a very, very special guest, Mr. Jeff Ruby, the owner of a string of Jeff Ruby`s restaurants, who kicked Simpson out of his restaurant in Louisville, Kentucky. Mr. Ruby, it`s an honor to have you on the show. Thank you for being with us.

RUBY: My pleasure, Nancy.

GRACE: Mr. Ruby, is it true that one of your guests came up to you, thrilled that Simpson was in your restaurant?

RUBY: He seemed to be giddy. But he may have just come from the racetrack, and you know, saw those horses and was thinking giddyup or something, I don`t know.

GRACE: What exactly happened?

RUBY: He -- well, you know, O.J.`s been in my restaurants before in Cincinnati, and back in the `80s, the Precinct, the Waterfront. He`s been to the restaurant -- actually, he`s been to the Waterfront since the murders and -- but he was in town for a hip-hop show he was doing, and I knew he was there. I wasn`t there that night, but I knew he was there. We didn`t do anything about it.

But that was before the, "If I Did It, Here`s How It Happened" part of this whole tragedy. And you know, I watch your show. I watch you on Court TV. I watch you, I think, at 3:00 o`clock. I watch you on CNN, all three reruns of it every night. I watched Fred many times. And I`ve got three kids. I`ve got a 24-year-old daughter who is marrying in seven weeks an NFL player with the Cincinnati Bengals.

I`ve taken this very personal. I`ve got two sons. One`s a waiter, one`s a busboy. I relate to Ron Goldman and Fred Goldman and what happened to his son, who was just bringing back a pair of glasses that Nicole left at the restaurant. My waiters do this all the time. One waiter yesterday returned a briefcase from a garage, a parking garage two blocks away. And this young man was murdered because he returned a pair of glasses. I have been very caught up and emotional in this whole thing.

This was not about race. By the way, five minutes after O.J. Simpson left that table, a gentleman with a party of 30 was seated in that room at that table by the name of Michael Jordan. Enough said about race. And the other 28 names you would all know, too, and you would know it`s not about race. So that doesn`t even need to be addressed.

O.J. -- I think we sent you a picture of me and O.J., arm around arm, laughing, smiling from the early `80s, when he was at one of my restaurants. His picture was on the wall at my restaurants prior to the murders. I took it off back in `94.

But I take this very personal. And if you want to -- let`s assume he was found not guilty and he did not commit the murders. And your gentleman from "The Enquirer," I mean, he`s right on the money, "This is why I did it." that if he was found not guilty and he did not commit the murders. So somebody else committed the murders, OK? Somebody else murdered the mother of your children brutally in her condominium, in one of the most brutal crime scenes they`ve ever seen over there. And somebody else murdered your ex-wife and the daughter of your father-in-law.

And you write a book, "If I Did It, Here`s How It Happened," And that`s how you`re going to be a single parent, and that`s how you`re raising your children, "If I Did It, Here`s How It Happened." You didn`t do it. Somebody else did it. You`re found not guilty, and you know somebody else did it. And you`re going to profit off the brutal murder of your ex-wife and the mother of your children, who was beheaded. And you`re going to -- and not give the money to the families who you`ve already been found liable for their death, for her death, and you`re going to profit.

You talked about blood money earlier. If he didn`t commit the murders and he was found not guilty, I would have thrown him out just for that. That`s not the way to raise your children.

GRACE: With us tonight, Jeff Ruby, the owner of Jeff Ruby`s Restaurant, actually refused O.J. Simpson`s money as he showed up partying in Louisville at the Kentucky Derby like a mega-star.

We are out to the lines. Chrissy in Florida. Hi, Chrissy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you, Nancy?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wanted to know, if O.J.`s attorney does sue the restaurant, who will get that profit from that lawsuit, the Goldmans and the Browns?

GRACE: Well, if they can chase Simpson down to get the money. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, civil rights lawyer Gloria Allred, Renee Rockwell out of Atlanta, Daniel Horowitz out of the San Francisco jurisdiction. Long time no see, Daniel.

Out to you, Gloria Allred. Gloria, we talked to Yale Galanter, Simpson`s attorney, forever. He`s going to sue Jeff Ruby for racial discrimination. Did you hear that?

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Yes, I did. And he has zero chance. Get that again: zero chance. There is no way that the court is going to find that he is guilty of racial discrimination. First of all, it was obviously for a non-racial reason that he refused him service, and I think he has a right to do that, Nancy. Secondly, he seated Michael Jordan there. There`s no racial discrimination. He also said he`s going to go after his liquor license.

You know, it really bugs me when someone claims racial discrimination where there is none because it really hurts the true racial discrimination cases. There are a lot of people who are discriminated against on account of their race in this country, and O.J. Simpson is not one of them.

GRACE: Is not one of them. Back to Jeff Ruby, the owner of the restaurant. Jeff, how badly would it hurt you if you lost your liquor license?

RUBY: Oh, we`re through. But we`re not going to -- Gloria -- you know, we`re not going to lose that liquor license and -- but yes, sure, that -- we`d lose about -- 100 employees would lose their jobs and -- for openers, but...

GRACE: I can`t believe they`re even threatening that, that they`re even talking about that. We`ll be all right back, taking your calls.

But very quickly, to tonight`s "Case Alert." A U.S. Marine loses his life saving two children, Atlantic Beach, North Carolina. Master Sergeant Michael Work (ph), vacationing with family, sees two boys struggling in the water. Work and his daughter rush into the waves to help rescuing the two. Work then goes missing underwater. A rescue team able to recover his body, could not revive him. Work, 35, an intelligence specialist, served in Operation Desert Storm and Iraq. Tonight, he leaves behind grieving widow Debbie (ph), three children. Master Sergeant Michael Work, a true American hero.



RUBY: I am not going to let him sign autographs in my restaurant. I knew that was coming. The most diabolic person in this country is O.J. Simpson. What he has done to these families, just rubbing it in their faces, OK? Ha, ha, ha, ha. No! And I`m going to give him the best steak in Louisville? Probably brought his own knife to cut it with, anyway.


GRACE: He beat the rap on double murder, but O.J. Simpson keeps popping up in the headlines, this weekend partying at the Kentucky Derby alongside of Queen Elizabeth. Now it turns out he showed up at a steakhouse, Jeff Ruby`s Restaurant. Ruby stood up to him and said, Oh, no, you`re out of here. Long story short, now the owner of the restaurant may be facing a lawsuit based on racial discrimination.

Out to you, Dan Horowitz. Do you see a lawsuit? Do you actually think that`s possible?

DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Not at all, Nancy. I mean, O.J.`s basically a walking piece of murder memorabilia, and for him to come in that restaurant is an insult to the staff and to the restaurant. If he sues, to me, it`s an insult to African-Americans. It`s an insult to all Americans that he could just take the happenstance of his skin color and use that cover up the fact that he`s hated because he`s a butcher. And that`s what a jury will find. He has no chance.

GRACE: If anybody can dream up a lawsuit, it would be Renee Rockwell. Renee, isn`t it true, before you go off on a tangent, that there has to be discrimination actually based on race, sex preference, gender, religion? You know, according to Jeff Ruby, there were plenty of minorities eating there at the restaurant that night, so what`s the basis of the lawsuit, Renee?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, there`s not going to be a lawsuit. I can`t see it. But everybody wants to criticize O.J. He was found not guilty. They need to leave him alone. It might not be the first restaurant that he was asked to leave. You`ve got to give him one thing, though, Nancy. He quietly and with class got up and left. And it was the...


GRACE: You know what?


GRACE: Stop! Stop! Stop!

RENEE: But Nancy, there will be no lawsuit.

GRACE: Nothing can be classy about the dead bodies in front of that address. And when you say need to leave him alone -- check the record. He has been in trouble with the law multiple times, from an alleged assault to stealing cable to the tune of $20,000. Don`t tell me to leave him alone! If he would behave and quit making money and not giving it to the Goldmans and live up to his judgment, he would be left alone, Renee Rockwell.

ROCKWELL: But Nancy, you know what? There`s really no way out that he can dig out of this $33 million judgment. He`s paying $10,000 interest a day on that.



RUBY: I`m not saying I kicked O.J. out of the restaurant (INAUDIBLE) If he had written a book, "I`m Sorry for What I Did," and explained how he did it and gave the money to the families, that`s (INAUDIBLE) charade (INAUDIBLE) money off of the murder. I just did it for the Goldmans and the Brown family.


GRACE: That`s right, that is the owner that turned down O.J. Simpson, said he didn`t want his money, as Simpson was partying at the Kentucky Derby. To that owner, Joining us tonight, Jeff Ruby, owner of Jeff Ruby`s Restaurants, a string of them. Jeff, were you surprised to learn that there was discussion of a lawsuit against you for turning down Simpson?

RUBY: Galanter?


RUBY: No. I talked to Fred Goldman on the phone today. He called me and -- which was great because he`s the reason I did this. And he called me to thank me. And you know, he, of course, told me about Galanter. So no, I`m not surprised -- I didn`t see that coming. I didn`t even see all this coming, Nancy. I had no idea this was such a big deal. I really didn`t.

GRACE: When we come back, not only more on the Simpson story, but a young mom of two goes missing in an upscale Chicago suburb.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The queen`s appearance at the Kentucky Derby a pretty big deal in Louisville. But she really (INAUDIBLE) O.J. Simpson over the weekend.

He showed up in a local restaurant Friday night for dinner, but the owner of the upscale steakhouse kicked him out. Jeff Ruby says the attention the former NFL star still gets makes him sick to his stomach, and his customers agreed. Ruby says (INAUDIBLE) but now says his attorneys are threatening a lawsuit. Will he have a case here?

O.J. SIMPSON, ACCUSED OF MURDER OF WIFE AND FRIEND: I didn`t just fall off the turnip truck or the watermelon wagon here, guys. I`ve been dealing with this for eight years. I am legal. I never break the law. You`re constantly -- all you hear out of the Goldmans` mouth is money, money, money, money, money, money. We`re going to find the money. I saw about five stories last year with the various tabloids that the IRS is closing in on O.J. His money is stashed. There is no money stashed.


GRACE: Well, you don`t get to the Kentucky Derby and party like a mega star without any money, I know that much. Out to the lines, Jackie in South Carolina. Hi, Jackie.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: How are you?

CALLER: Great. Thank you for your advocacy.

GRACE: Thank you, love. Thank you very much. What`s your question?

CALLER: My question is, most restaurants have a sign posted that says they reserve the right not to serve anyone for any reason, so how would they be liable?

GRACE: Oh, honey, anybody can put a sign up. That doesn`t mean it is true. But on the other hand, don`t they have a right, Gloria Allred, to turn down service to customers that, for instance, they believe will cause a problem?

GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY: They do, Nancy, but the only thing they cannot do is they cannot deny service based on race or based on gender or based on some other arbitrary factor over which a person has no control. So even if they have the sign that says, "We can deny service to anyone," it`s actually not true, because they can`t do it if it`s on the basis of something like race. But that doesn`t appear to be the case here. So I don`t think that Mr. Ruby has anything to worry about.

GRACE: Yes, the bottom line, Daniel Horowitz, is that you cannot discriminate based on someone being a member of a protected class, a member of, for instance, a minority. You can`t discriminate because somebody`s a woman, because of their religion, because they`ve got a handicap.

But in a case like this, obviously, Jeff Ruby just told us about several minorities eating there. I think his lead manager is a minority. That`s totally a bogus argument. It is complete B.S., and I don`t like seeing this system twisted around the way it has been threatened against Jeff Ruby, the owner of the restaurant. But, Daniel, explain the whole protected class thing.

DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I mean, America has a history where African-Americans were greatly oppressed solely because of their race.

GRACE: Hey, hey, hey, don`t leave me out. It`s just not African- Americans. Handicapped people are discriminated against, women, Jews, you name it.

HOROWITZ: Yes. What I was getting at, Nancy, is that, in the civil rights movement...

GRACE: It`s an open field for discrimination.

HOROWITZ: And the civil rights movement, which was led by African- Americans, opened the door for protection for all of us, including, like you say, women and other groups. And that great movement is now being misused by people like O.J. who just happens to be African-American. It`s not why he was kicked out. It does not define today who he is. He was a great African-American hero when he was a hero, but that is gone. So it`s really a shame that we`re seeing it used in this wrong way.

GRACE: Out to you, Andy Kahan, crime victim`s office in Houston. Weigh in.

ANDY KAHAN, DIRECTOR, VICTIMS CRIME OFFICE FOR HOUSTON MAYOR: Hey, Jeff, on behalf of crime victims, thumbs up for doing what our criminal justice system has flat-out refused to do, and that is acknowledge O.J. Simpson who, like it or not, was found civilly liable for the butchering two human beings.

And, Nancy, you touched on a great point a moment ago. How does someone who claims he has no assets other than to pay his rent and expenses manage to high-tail it up for one of the most prestigious events in this country, the Kentucky Derby, have dinner at the upscale restaurants, yet the Goldmans receive not one squat of a dime? That`s real troubling. I`d love to put a tail on him throughout the day and see what else he squanders his money on.

GRACE: Out to you, criminal profiler Pat Brown. Now there`s even allegations against this restaurant owner that it was a hate crime. Nothing could be further from the truth.

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, it`s not going to be proven out in court, that`s absolutely for sure. But I think what this creep of a lawyer wants to do is frighten people, to say, "Look, don`t mistreat poor, little O.J. this way. Look what could happen to you." And therefore, many Americans might indeed might say, "Oh, I better be nice," and that`s one thing we need to stop doing. Stop being nice to people who do not deserve any niceness.

GRACE: And to you, psychotherapist Caryn Stark, it seems like not only Jeff Ruby, but a lot of people take these murders very personally. Why?

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Because they identify with the victims, Nancy. They relate to what happened, and they think, what if this happened to me? And so they have true hatred for him because he never really was brought to justice.

GRACE: And to you, Mike Walker, with the "Enquirer," it`s never going to end with O.J., is it? It`s always going to be something.

MIKE WALKER, "NATIONAL ENQUIRER": It never is. I wrote two books on that trial. And I`d like to point out, by the way, in the comments about race here, that O.J. Simpson, all of his friends, almost exclusively were white people, white men. All of his girlfriends have been white, almost without any exception.

So for him to talk about the race card, which was played very successfully by him and by Johnny Cochran in his trial, is just hypocrisy. It sickens you. I applaud, by the way, Jeff Ruby for what he did. It`s time somebody drew the line on this clown.

GRACE: Well, apparently, Mike Walker, there might be another book for you in O.J. Simpson yet. It ain`t over yet. And finally, to Jeff Ruby, the owner of Jeff Ruby`s Restaurant, number one, I`ve been doing some legal research on your restaurants, sir. And I`m especially interested in the legal issue of the Jeff Ruby fillet and the Jersey Jeff Ruby French fries. I`m going to be investigating those very thoroughly when I come to your restaurant in Chicago.

Sir, thank you for being with me.

JEFF RUBY, OWNER OF JEFF RUBY`S RESTAURANTS: I`m not in Chicago. I`m across the street from the Airinoff (ph), and you`re going to be there Monday in Cincinnati.

GRACE: I thought you had a restaurant in Chicago, too.


GRACE: I`m very depressed.

RUBY: Monday, if you`re going to be in Cincinnati.

GRACE: I`m not getting a fillet on Monday, that`s for sure. Jeff, thank you for being with us.

RUBY: Can I ask you one question?

GRACE: Yes, sir.

RUBY: If you don`t mind, in this country, when a celebrity goes on trial for murder, Lady Justice sneaks out the back door of the courtroom. Why is that?

GRACE: I don`t think Lady Justice sneaks out, sir. I think that somehow her voice just gets overwhelmed, and I hate that very much. Thank you.

Very quickly, we are going to Chicago. A young mom disappears. Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Plainfield`s first missing persons case in more than a decade. The state police and FBI are assisting in the search. Right now there`s little to go on. Her car was left at home, and Stebic`s estranged husband, who still lived with her, told police that Lisa allegedly left around 6:00 Monday night to go to the high school fitness center.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was Monday. She left home here, supposedly to go work out. And as far as I know, somebody picked her up, and, come Tuesday morning to go to work, she wasn`t here. And none of her friends have seen her.


GRACE: Joining us tonight in the mystery surrounding the missing mom, Michele Fiore with WBBM News Radio 780. What happened?

MICHELE FIORE, REPORTER, WBBM: Well, the latest information I have for you, Nancy, is that I did speak to Plainfield police this afternoon, and they tell me that tips are now coming into their department. And that is significant, because over the weekend, when I first met with the deputy police chief, he told me they had nothing at that point. They were desperate for leads. And now they`re finally coming into the station. He says any lead, even saying one that may seem insignificant to people, can be just the tip that they`re looking for, and that can help bring Lisa Stebic home to her family.

GRACE: Jean, what were the circumstances of her disappearance?

JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: Well, it was April 30th was the last time that she was seen. And she works at a school cafeteria, so she reported for work that day. They saw her. Her husband is the last one that says he saw her late in the afternoon on April 30th.

He said that she normally would leave in the evening to go do exercise. She`d come back 10:30 or 11:00. She was never seen again. Her children, though, her two children have the same story that the father has, that the last time that they saw their mother was late that afternoon.

GRACE: So to you, Michele Fiore, with 780 WBBM News Radio, both children who were allegedly out buying some candy, the father says he was working in the yard when she went jogging, or to work out, they back up the dad`s claim he saw her at 6:00 p.m.?

FIORE: We have not spoken with the children at this point.

GRACE: I`m sorry, I couldn`t hear you. Repeat?

FIORE: We have not spoken with the children at this point.

GRACE: What can you tell me about the husband refusing a polygraph, Michele Fiore?

FIORE: You know what? Craig Stebic declined to take a polygraph test that was offered to him by the Plainfield Police Department. It was on the advice of his attorney, who is also his divorce attorney in the proceedings that he filed against Lisa Stebic this past January. Police tell us that, besides Craig, other family members and acquaintances of Lisa have also been offered a polygraph test. They would not tell me exactly how many have taken it or if any have taken it at this point.

GRACE: And very quickly, Jean Casarez, is there a reward?

CASAREZ: There is. Her family and friends, $20,000. I think the unusual thing about this case, Nancy, her cell phone, her credit cards, they haven`t been used since that April 30th date.

GRACE: When we come back, murderers behind bars making blood money. No!



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ted Bundy was infamous as an intelligent and handsome charmer, a highly likable boy next door. Those who knew him well never suspected the strange obsession that caused him to sexually assault and murder more than 22 young girls and women.

David Berkowitz, AKA Son of Sam, blamed his murderous rampages on an evil spirit speaking to him through his neighbor`s Labrador. At the dog`s command, Berkowitz, a former postal worker, would sneak up on young lovers in New York City and shoot them at point-blank range.

Mental illness hardly begins to explain the actions of someone like Jeffrey Dahmer, who killed at least 17 young men and ate their body parts, often having sex with their corpses.

John Wayne Gacy, one of the worst convicted serial killers in U.S. history, was known as a nice man who dressed as a clown to entertain children, yet police found some 30 corpses of young boys and men whom Gacy had sexually abused, tortured, murdered and buried in the crawl space of his Chicago home.


GRACE: Not only did they terrorize and murder their victims, now they are making money from behind bars. It`s called murderabilia. It`s wrong.

For instance, Lawrence Bittaker, Lawrence "Pliers" Bittaker that would kidnap young women, torture them with pliers in his van before killing them, his nails and his socks sell online. Autographs are $25. Even Angel Ramirez`s (ph) foot scrapings, his skin sold online.

John Wayne Gacy, the dirt that had been around the dead boys` bodies in his crawl space, for sale online. Koresh, the Branch Davidian, dirt from the Branch Davidian compound on sale online, dirt that may have touched the dead bodies. Arthur Shawcross, one of the most prolific serial killers, selling his hair online for $20. The list goes on and on and on.

To you, Andy Kahan, how do we stop it? And what are you going to do about it?

KAHAN: Well, like you said, Nancy, you just shouldn`t be able to rob, rape and murder and then turn around and make a buck off of it. You know, we`ve got states -- I`ve worked with several states throughout my years of watch-dogging this industry. We passed what`s called a notoriety for profit law, which allows states to seize money from convicted criminals and/or their agents.

The problem that we have right now is, obviously, I cannot enforce a Texas law when a Florida, Illinois or Georgia dealer is recruiting items from inmates and then shipping them and then selling them on the Internet. So we`re actually here in Washington, D.C., today. We`re here to talk with Texas Senator John Cornyn`s staff. We had a very fruitful meeting for several hours. Hopefully, we can enact some federal legislation.

GRACE: To Annmarie Timmins with the "Concord Monitor," what other type of things are sold online, murderabilia? Annmarie, I think I`ve got you with me, Annmarie Timmins with the "Concord Monitor"? OK, no Annmarie.

To Kim Ogg, victims` rights attorney and former prosecutor, also with Houston Crimestoppers, what other types of things are sold online, murderabilia, Kim?

KIM OGG, VICTIMS RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Oh, letters, autographed pictures, personal items, hair, nail clippings, things that would have zero value but for their attachment to a notorious serial killer.

GRACE: Tell me why you teamed up with Kahan?

OGG: You know, I`ve been a volunteer with victims` groups in Houston where a lot of this movement has been happening for the last 10, 15 years. I`d only been with them 10. But I can tell you there are a lot of people, not just in our state, who are appalled that killers can make money or anybody else can make money off items that are really only valuable because someone died as a result of those killer`s actions.

Most Americans think we`re protected from this kind of action. They think that the Son of Sam laws enacted 20 years ago save victims from this kind of pain. But, in truth, they don`t. It`s happening every day, and victims are being re-victimized by killers and dealers.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Tina in Ohio. Hi, Tina.

CALLER: Hello, Nancy. Thank you very much for your pro-activeness. My question is, who is helping these people get these items to the eBay buyers or whoever? And can they be charged?

GRACE: Let me tell you a little story about eBay. There were tons of murderabilia on eBay. And just before they were going to be exposed, I think on "20/20" by Andy Kahan -- he`s been fighting this for years -- eBay straightened up their act. But sometimes things still get on eBay. Explain, Andy Kahan, who`s helping them from behind bars?

KAHAN: Well, it`s kind of like exterminating cockroaches. After eBay banned the sale of murderabilia, all the dealers did was set up shop on their own site. How it works is you have about five different dealers throughout the country. They strike up correspondence. They end up cutting deals with inmates, who then, in turn, ship out their letters, their artwork, their toenail scrapings, their hair, and then they put post it up on their Web sites for sale. And they make exactly what you call it, blood money, all at the expense of crime victims.

You know, if we can`t do anything to prevent inmates from laughing at the system and sitting behind bars and making money off of committing some of the most horrendous crimes known to mankind, then shame on us.

GRACE: And to you, Pat Brown, what do you do with money behind bars?

BROWN: Well, that`s exactly the point. It isn`t about money. The agents, it`s about money, so we need to stop them from getting money. But the actual killers behind bars, they`re interested in notoriety, fame. They`re amusing themselves with the torture of the victims, so it`s not about money for them. It`s about stopping this problem, with the First Amendment and the ACLU pushing the rights to contact everybody out there.

GRACE: You know, Andy Kahan, you once said something that made a big impression on me. You said that the last thing a crime victim`s family, a murder victim`s family, should hear from the killer is a notice from the board of corrections that they`re headed to the death penalty, not going online and suddenly seeing their toenails popping up for $20, Andy.

KAHAN: Oh, from the crime victims` perspective, it`s the most nauseating and disgusting feeling to find out the person who murdered one of your loved ones now has items being hawked by a third party. It`s like being gutted all over again by our criminal justice system.


GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. Blood money, convicted killers making hone off their notoriety behind bars. It is wrong. Andy Kahan leading the fight in Washington to stop it.

Joining him tonight, Kim Ogg. Out to the lines. Katie in California, hi, Katie.


GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

CALLER: Who`s buying this stuff? Do they know?

GRACE: Who`s buying it?


GRACE: A bunch of pervs. What about it, Andy Kahan? Who`s buying this stuff?

KAHAN: Well, it`s obviously crime enthusiasts. You`ve got people that want to feel close to a killer. They own a piece of their soul.

GRACE: Wait. Let`s just take a look at what you just said. I`ve got a problem with you, now, Andy. Crime enthusiasts, OK?


GRACE: These people are not crime enthusiasts. They`re pervs. They`re freaks. Who would want Rasindez`s (ph) toenails?

KAHAN: Well, I can tell you, we found one federal court clerk in Orlando, Georgia, buying items.

GRACE: And I`m supposed to think, what, that that`s normal? No, I don`t think it`s normal.

KAHAN: Nope. It`s not normal at all. I have no idea what people would want a fascination with somebody`s hair, fingernails, toenails, or whatever. For whatever reason, there`s a macabre market out there for it, and we`ve got to stop it.

GRACE: And very quickly, I`ve got 15 seconds. How did you attack eBay and make that happen?

KAHAN: We basically exposed them publicly. They told me that, you know, do something about it. I decided to take them on, and we did.

GRACE: Power to you, Andy Kahan and Kim Ogg. Keep the faith.

Let`s stop for a moment to remember Army Private First Class Brian Botello, 19, killed, Alta, Iowa, killed, Iraq. Enlisting straight from high school following his father, a veteran Marine. On a first tour of duty, he loved the military, serving his country. Loved by friends and family. He leaves behind grieving parents, Tony and Karen, sisters, Jamie and Tiffany. Brian Botello, American hero.

Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for inviting us into your home. A special happy birthday to a little crime fighter and son of a NANCY GRACE regular, Michael Mazzariello, Jr. Happy sixth birthday, and I`ll see you in court.

See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.