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Nancy Grace
Police Name Stebic Person of Interest in Wife`s Disappearance
Aired July 12, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news in the mystery surrounding young mother of two Lisa Stebic, who reportedly goes for a jog in upscale Chicago suburbs, then never heard from again. Headlines tonight. In the last hour, police officially name Lisa Stebic`s husband a person of interest. Foul play now suspected, the couple in the middle of a bitter divorce, still living under the same room when she goes messing. Blood evidence reportedly Lisa`s emergences during the investigation, all the while, Craig Stebic repeatedly blocking police efforts to talk to Stebic`s children about the day their mom goes missing. And a local reporter caught on video, then fired after attending a bikini pool party in Stebic`s back yard!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Craig Stebic insisted for two months that he had nothing to do with his missing wife`s disappearance. But today police made it official they`re not so sure they believe him, naming Craig Stebic as a person of interest in the case, the only one named so far. Plainfield, Illinois, police also say they believe Lisa Stebic is a victim of foul play.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, day eight in the search for a 12-year-old little girl, Tacoma, Washington, kidnapped on the 4th of July. Tonight, a sex offender, a Thai sex offender here apparently on a work permit, named a person of interest in little Zina`s disappearance. Tonight, FBI testing evidence, including girl`s underwear found in the home and hand (ph) of the POI, the person of interest already described as a pedophile in previous court documents. Why was he still in this country? Where`s Homeland Security when it comes to 12-year-old girls? Specifically, where is 12-year-old Zina Linnik?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators are focusing on an unidentified Pierce County, Washington, man in connection with the disappearance of 12-year-old Zina Linnik. The FBI says the 43-year-old man, arrested Monday on immigration violations, isn`t being identified because he hasn`t been charged in Zina`s disappearance, but he remains a person of interest. The FBI also says the man drives a gray van matching the description of a van spotted leaving the area where Zina was last seen. Authorities say he is a registered sex offender, convicted of first degree incest in 1990.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. First, breaking news, mother of two Lisa Stebic vanishes into thin air, upscale Chicago suburbs. Tonight her husband, Craig Stebic, officially named a person of interest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A major development late this afternoon in the case of a missing Illinois mom. Police are now saying Lisa Stebic was a victim of foul play, also announcing her estranged husband, Craig, is now a person of interest in the case. He was the last known person to see her alive, and that was more than two months ago. She vanished from her home with only her purse and cell phone on April 30.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She left home here supposedly to go work out, and as far as I know, somebody picked her up, and nobody`s seen her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Craig`s name has been out there for a while. The two were in the process of getting a divorce. In fact, the same day she disappeared, Lisa mailed out a petition to evict Craig from the home that they were still sharing. Craig Stebic has also refused to talk to investigators since early May on advice of his attorney.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s another wrinkle in the case, though. It has cost a local Chicago TV reporter her job. Her bosses say she got too close to a source -- not just any source, but Craig Stebic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A lot happening in the Stebic case. Let`s go out to Michelle Sigona with "America`s Most Wanted." Why now? Why today? Why tonight is Craig Stebic suddenly named an official person of interest?
MICHELLE SIGONA, "AMERICA`S MOST WANTED": You know, it`s really hard to tell, Nancy. But what I can tell you is I did -- I talked to Craig`s lawyer just a few hours ago. Craig`s lawyer said that about a week-and-a-half ago, a state`s attorney reached out to him and said, Look, we need to talk to these children. I need answers to these questions. Craig`s lawyer told the state`s attorney, You provide me with the questions -- you cannot talk to the kids directly -- and I`ll give you the answers. He says from that point, he has not heard from investigators or the state`s attorney since and has not heard from anyone -- that was the first time since the beginning of the case.
I think, at this point, investigators have been combing through all the evidence, Nancy. They have obtained two search warrants. They`ve confiscated both of the family vehicles. They`ve had time to go through all of the evidence, all of these things, and they need to talk to the children.
So why today? Why now? I`m not too sure. I just think that they have enough to move forward to at least consider him a person of interest.
GRACE: Well, nothing has really changed. He`s never allowed police to talk to the children. They apparently were the last ones to see her alive, other than him. I`m sure police want to find out whether those stories conflict. But in my mind, nothing has changed unless police are holding back, Mike Brooks.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: (INAUDIBLE) Nancy, you had the FBI evidence response team, along with the local authorities, that did the search warrant and maybe have found some blood evidence. We also have to consider hairs and fibers and everything else that could have also been found in that tarp in the back of his truck. You know, this whole -- it`s the whole thing of person of interest, Nancy. I call that "suspect lite." They ought to just call it like it is. He`s a suspect, period.
GRACE: Let`s go out to the lawyers. Joining us out of Seattle, Washington, high-profile lawyer Anne Bremner, and out of the California jurisdiction, Michael Cardoza.
Michael, all along, it has been my suspicion that police have not named him a person of interest or a target because immediately, his constitutional rights then apply. But the reality is, he`s not talking. He`s not helping police in any way. He`s not letting the kids talk. So why not go ahead and name him a person of interest and go ahead and lawyer up and clam up?
MICHAEL CARDOZA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, I got to tell you, I agree with Mike. I mean, when did this term "person of interest" come into vogue? When I was a district attorney, if the police were looking at you, you were simply called a suspect in the case.
Look, he`s been a suspect since day one. And like I say, I agree with Mike. Let`s call him what he is. Let`s call him what he`s been all along, and that`s a suspect. So what are the police doing here? They`re certainly keeping national attention on this case by changing the terminology. It means nothing. He`s a suspect.
GRACE: Michael, finally, I get to answer a question for you after all these years. This is my theory on "person of interest" versus "suspect." As soon as the U.S. Supreme Court started ruling that once you`re officially designated a suspect, as opposed to a defendant -- used to be when you were an official defendant, you had been formally charged, your constitutional rights applied.
CARDOZA: Right.
GRACE: When you were arrested, your rights applied.
CARDOZA: Sure.
GRACE: Then when they started calling you a suspect and you haven`t been arrested, your rights applied.
CARDOZA: OK.
GRACE: So then they backed up to person of interest. I don`t know what it`s going to be next here!~
(LAUGHTER)
CARDOZA: I know. But it`s a game they`re playing. It`s a way to get people not to invoke their constitutional rights. You know what a good attorney will do. We`ll go on and say, Let`s call it what it is. Just like Mike said, he`s been a suspect. He`s got constitutional rights. He`s invoking them, just as he has a right to do, as we all have a right to do.
Do we all think he did it? Probably, because he`s invoking his rights. But remember, these are rights that we fought for. These are rights that we have. These are rights we should protect.
GRACE: Hold on! You got me all wrong.
CARDOZA: So let`s...
GRACE: Anne Bremner, I don`t care if he invokes his rights. Hey, I`d be mad if he didn`t. What I do care about is withholding evidence to the police, from the police. And I`m talking about not him -- his children aren`t targets. His children aren`t people of interest. Why not let them -- and they`re old enough to talk, one is 12 years old -- tell the police what happened to mommy the last day they saw her? It`s not right.
ANNE BREMNER, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Well, you know, the thing is, Nancy, they called him a person of interest now in their press conference because he`s not letting the children talk. You know, this person of interest -- is he person of interest because he had a bikini-clad reporter in his pool party?
(LAUGHTER)
BREMNER: You know, and what changed? That`s the only thing I can see. I agree with Michael Cardoza, my good friend, and everything he said here. But the thing is, we have constitutional rights beyond just 5th Amendment and -- look at right to privacy. Look at the fact that these kids are underage. They`re not allowed to vote. They`re not allowed to have sexual relationships. They are not emancipated.
GRACE: Wa, wa-wa, wa-wa, wa-wa, wa-wait. Wa-wait!
BREMNER: But Nancy...
GRACE: Wait!. Stop! I want to look at Anne Bremner.
BREMNER: Nancy...
GRACE: Are you trying to tell me -- are you trying in some weird...
BREMNER: I`m trying to...
GRACE: ... contortion of defense law, tell me that telling what police -- telling police what you saw the last day you saw your mom is somehow equal to not being able to drink and smoke in America, as well?
BREMNER: No, Nancy, I was trying to get my point out, which is this.
GRACE: That`s totally screwed up!
BREMNER: Nancy, I`m almost done. But you can hear me out on this. The fact is, these kids are not emancipated. He`s their dad. They have rights. There`s no requirement they cooperate with the police. And he`s the one that knows what`s they know. So the fact is, why is it being -- why are they calling him a person of interest, just because he`s protecting his own children? He`s been consistent. He`s not talking. He`s not cooperating. And he`s...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Let`s go out to Bob Roberts with WBBM Newsradio 780. They just brought up a very interesting point. A local reporter apparently has lost her job after a bikini pool party over at Stebic`s house. I don`t care about a reporter reporting on a story in a bikini. So to me, that`s just a big red herring in this case. What`s it all about, Bob?
BOB ROBERTS, WBBM NEWSRADIO 780: Amy Jacobson`s been a reporter for one of the stations here in Chicago for more than 10 years. She`s a Chicago-area native. She`s not a dummy. She graduated Phi Beta Kappa from the University of Iowa. In fact, she was in negotiations for a long-term contract extension as recently as last week.
Now, she claims that Craig Stebic`s sister called her Friday and invited her to the home to talk about the case. Nobody`s getting that interview. So even though it was her day off, Jacobson says she dropped what she was doing -- she was going to a local athletic club, she says, to take her two sons, ages 2 and 3, swimming -- and headed for Plainfield instead and the Stebic home.
Now, once there, she was caught on videotape by a rival station. They held that tape for a couple of days, but the word got out what they had. And that is what led to her downfall. Her station immediately suspended her. They called her in Monday. They sat down and talked with her. She had an attorney present. And at the end of the meeting, she was fired.
GRACE: What you`re seeing right now is CBS-2 Chicago exclusive video of WMAQ`s Amy Jacobson at Stebic`s bikini pool party. OK, so she`s not working there anymore. She got to him. Maybe he`ll give her an interview. You know what? That would be great, if he would talk to somebody, because he`s not talking to police.
Let`s go out to the lines. Nancy in Missouri. Hi, Nancy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Given the statistics over the last few years, when something like this happens, and eventually -- and unfortunately, the woman is found dead and it`s either the spouse or the boyfriend that is guilty, what is the ruling on when this initially happens and they`re starting the investigation, no other suspects are really obvious -- why can`t they hold the boyfriend or the spouses as a suspect for 24, 48 hours, so number one, they can`t, if they are guilty, hide evidence or whatever, or at least maybe shock them into maybe confessing, or you know, getting the case going right away, rather than...
GRACE: You know, Nancy in Missouri, you`d make such a great prosecutor because you`re just talking common sense. But unfortunately, that`s not always the way the Constitution works. Under our Constitution, you have to have probable cause -- PC -- against a specific individual before they can be arrested. You cannot base your probable cause on statistics which you and I both know to be true.
The single greatest cause of death amongst pregnant woman in this country is homicide, typically by a partner. Typically, when there is the death of the woman, you look at boyfriend and husband first because of the statistics Nancy in Missouri is talking about. But that is not sufficient for probable cause.
Let`s go out to Dr. William July, psychologist and author. What about the fact that boyfriend/husband first suspect?
WILLIAM JULY, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, let`s forget all about this behavior -- this person of interest thing. I call it behavior of interest. All you got to do is watch what these guys are doing, these - - when these women disappear, wouldn`t you go out and you want to know what happened to your wife, where she is? Wouldn`t you cooperate? You won`t let the kids talk. You all talk. Now you`re having a bikini party with a reporter? Come on. It just doesn`t make sense.
So what`s happening is these guys are going and they`re -- they`re -- he`s creating and making himself a suspect. He`s making everybody look at him as a suspect. It`s guilty-type behavior.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Kathleen in Florida. Hi, Kathleen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. You`re the best.
GRACE: Thank you, Kathleen. You tell Cardoza and Anne Bremner that.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is two-folded (SIC). He kind of just said something about it just now, but why would an innocent man want to keep his children from helping in any way possible to find their mother? And how can he legally hinder an investigation like this?
GRACE: You know what? I want to show you a clip that you may have seen a few weeks ago, Kathleen, of another husband, another father, who was acting diametrically in opposition to Mr. Stebic. Remember this? Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIM NIELSEN, HUSBAND OF MISSING WOMAN: Help. Anybody who knows anything, anybody who`s seen anything, it doesn`t matter if it`s just the littlest, teeniest, tiniest bit of information. Those have been known to break cases. And that`s what we need right now.
She was everything. She was this 5-foot-3-inch, you know, little girl. She loved to dance. She loved to sing. She loved to play the piano. Her attitude that she had just lit up the room whenever she entered into it. She`s -- she was everybody`s friend. She wanted to be everybody`s friend. She wanted to meet everybody and see everything. And she wanted to be pretty much the center of attention, and that`s how everybody treated her.
Take care of my boys. It`s there for whatever they need, for food, for clothes, you know, and if and when the time comes, just college. You know, and if it`s there, when they get older just -- whatever -- whatever I need to take care and to support them, that`s what I`m going to use that money for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is Tim Nielsen, the husband of Jenna Nielsen. You all remember -- there she is -- the mother of two young boys, also pregnant. And she was a delivery person for "USA Today" newspaper, who has posted a reward for her death -- for the solving of her death. Her husband immediately goes to police, cooperates, hits the airwaves. Reminds me a lot of Marc Klaas, the father of Polly Klaas, the little girl who went missing from her own home. He says, Polygraph me, question me, search my home, search my body, search my car. Do anything so you can go find the real suspect. But not in this case.
I want go back out to Michelle Sigona with "America`s Most Wanted." Michelle, back line (ph) just a moment and tell us what happened the day that Lisa Stebic went missing.
SIGONA: Well, it was April 30, Nancy. And if your viewers remember -- because I know that you`ve covered this before -- you know, it seemed to be a pretty much normal day for Lisa. She went to work. She worked as a cafeteria worker in a local elementary school. And Craig was actually at work that day. Her two children were home at the time. They actually -- what Craig says is they went out to go get some candy. And when they returned, Craig was apparently working in the back yard -- suddenly, Lisa was gone.
yes, initially, people thought she went to the local track, where she normally went every night. She had recently lost a lot of weight. Her and Craig, although they lived in the same home, they really hadn`t been on speaking terms in about four months. Divorce papers were filed. They were in the process of going through a separation at that point. But neither one really had the money to move out to establish a new household, a new income, you know, a new home for their family. So they were just trying to tough it out for as long as they could. She also files an eviction notice just within a couple of days before her disappearance against Craig Stebic, to get him to move out of the home.
So that`s pretty much the background of the story, Nancy. And it`s just -- it`s so sad. I mean, so many volunteers -- even last weekend, Nancy, 700 volunteers in her community were out searching areas, searching fields for Lisa Stebic.
GRACE: Michelle Sigona with "America`s Most wanted," according to our sources, it was that very day that she went missing that she mailed court documents, official court documents to have her husband removed from the home, based on alleged verbal abuse. Timing, timing, timing.
With us, very quickly, a very special guest, Chief Donald E. Bennett with the Plainfield Police Department. Chief, thank you for being with us. What bumped his status, Stebic`s status, up to person of interest?
CHIEF DONALD E. BENNETT, PLAINFIELD POLICE DEPARTMENT: Thank you for having us on, Nancy.
GRACE: Yes, sir.
BENNETT: What occurred is, over the last 10 weeks our agency has spent thousands of hours investigating this case and looking at all of the evidence and all of the interviews and things that were there. And we basically have narrowed it down in the sense that the last that we are made aware of is that Mr. Stebic was the only person in the house when -- to see Lisa. And with this, what we`ve done is elevated that, based upon our really 10 months of investigation. It`s not something that just popped up, it`s something where we tried to meticulously eliminate the fact that she didn`t simply walk away. She`s had no contact on her cell phone, no...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A major development late this afternoon in the case of a missing Illinois mom. Police are saying Lisa Stebic was a victim of foul play, also announcing her estranged husband, Craig, is now a person of interest in the case. He was the last known person to see her alive, and that was more than two months ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining us tonight, in addition to Chief Donald E. Bennett of the Plainfield Police Department, who`s been working on this case from the get-go, a very dear friend of Lisa Stebic`s, Kimberly Young, is joining us from Chicago. Ms. Young, thank you for being with us.
KIMBERLY YOUNG, FRIEND OF LISA STEBIC: Hi, Nancy. Thank you.
GRACE: Yes, ma`am. Why is it you believe Stebic refuses to allow police to talk to the children?
YOUNG: I don`t know. I don`t know why, if he was the last one to see her, he wouldn`t come forward with any information he has to, you know, where she might have gone or what happened to her. If you`re the last one to see her, why not help the police with your information?
GRACE: Have the children been around Lisa`s family since she went missing?
YOUNG: Yes. They were able to go on vacation with them. And from what I know, they had a really nice time.
GRACE: Now, I know that the family has been coached not to talk to the children about the day she went missing. You don`t want to taint any possible evidence. But have they revealed anything to Lisa`s family?
YOUNG: No, just that they have come to the point where they do miss her.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRAIG STEBIC, HUSBAND OF MISSING WOMAN: It was Monday. She left home here supposedly to go work out. And as far as I know, somebody picked her up. And come Tuesday morning to go to work, she wasn`t here. And I called all of her friends. Nobody`d seen her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: One of the very rare moments that husband and person of interest Craig Stebic has actually spoken out about his wife`s disappearance, refusing to speak to police.
And he brings up a really good point, Chief Bennett. Didn`t she go missing around 6:00 PM, according to him, April 30, and it was May 1, the following day, when a neighbor -- a neighbor lady, reported her missing?
BENNETT: That is correct.
GRACE: What took so long?
BENNETT: We`re not sure. That`s just something that we would like to find out, if we had the opportunity to talk to Mr. Stebic.
GRACE: To Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI and former D.C. cop. You have analyzed all the evidence. Do you agree with Chief Bennett that him being named a person of interest today is the culmination of months of effort?
BROOKS: Absolutely, Nancy. I agree wholeheartedly with the chief. It`s months of investigation, both with local, the FBI evidence response team, search warrants. And you look at what`s going on, especially with these children. In my opinion, him not bringing forward these children to be interviewed by law enforcement, to me, that`s obstruction of justice.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Craig Stebic insisted for two months that he had nothing to do with his missing wife`s disappearance. But today police made it official: They`re not so sure they believe him.
A man named Craig Stebic is a person of interest in the case, the only one named so far. Plainfield, Illinois, police also say they believe Lisa Stebic is a victim of foul play.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Many of the people detectives have interviewed have stressed Lisa`s love for her children and have insisted that Lisa would not have left home without them. In the last several months, there have been no activities on her cell phone, credit cards, or her checking accounts. As a result, everything learned in this investigation, detectives are now focusing on the scenario that she most likely is a victim of foul play.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Where is Lisa Stebic? She leaves behind a 10-year-old boy, a 12-year-old girl. That reward up to $60,000, Web site FindLisaStebic.com. Let`s go out to the lines. Jennifer in Illinois, hi, Jennifer.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
CALLER: My question is, now that Craig Stebic is considered a person of interest, couldn`t DCFS come and take the kids away?
GRACE: Excellent question. Out to the lawyers, Anne Bremner, could the children be taken?
ANNE BREMNER, TRIAL ATTORNEY: No. I mean, the fact is, in this case, think about this, Nancy. If they really want these kids to come in and testify -- in fact, they were not with their mom when they were jogging, by the way, being potential witnesses -- but they can get material witness warrants. They can have an inquiry judge proceeding. They can have grand jury. And there`s no basis to take these kids away from the dad. In fact, there`s no evidence in this case against the dad. And, in fact, all we`ve heard so far in terms of why he`s a person of interest is because he was the last known person to have been with her. What about the last unknown person that may have been with her? Couldn`t have that been the person of interest?
GRACE: And did I just hear you say that the children are not witnesses because they were not with her jogging? Did I hear you say that?
BREMNER: You heard part of what I said, Nancy. You heard part of what I said. But the fact is, they were not with her at the time she disappeared.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Michael Cardoza, correct me if I`m wrong...
(CROSSTALK)
MICHAEL CARDOZA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I can`t hear you, Nance. Go ahead. Say again.
GRACE: Isn`t it just the husband alone that says the kids went out to buy candy after he gave them the money to go, and then he`s the last one alone with her? And he`s the one that`s telling us she went jogging?
CARDOZA: That`s what I understand the facts to be. But keep in mind -- and what everybody is losing here is that the police want to talk to the kids. The attorney for the husband, Craig, has said, "Give me the questions. I will ask the kids, and I will supply you with that information." Why haven`t the police, if they`re so interested in talking to these children, done that?
And I would also like to know from the chief, Chief, why is all of a sudden this guy a person of interest? What new facts do you have, other than, "Craig won`t let us, the police, talk to the kids," which really upsets the police? Is that what really makes Craig a person of interest now? Or do they have new facts?
GRACE: You know what? I`m going to put it back on you, Michael Cardoza. I, as a former prosecutor...
CARDOZA: So am I.
GRACE: ... if I want to -- as I was saying, as I was saying, I don`t want anybody else...
CARDOZA: Yes, as you were saying.
GRACE: ... I don`t want somebody else -- you know, I`ll throw this to Chief Donald Bennett. Chief, don`t you believe that as part of proper police procedure that you want to be the one to ask the questions and judge the person`s demeanor, hear what they have to say, that may lead to a follow-up question that you hadn`t even thought of when you made your original list, Chief?
CHIEF DONALD E. BENNETT, PLAINFIELD POLICE DEPARTMENT: Actually, Nancy, in this particular case, we and the state`s attorney`s office attempted to compromise in a sense to set up the children to be interviewed with our local child advocacy center so that they were in the proper environment and went through it. As was brought up by one of your guests, if, in fact, we submitted questions to the attorney, we have no knowledge or factual things to show that, in fact, the children answered those questions.
GRACE: So you did submit questions to the attorney?
BENNETT: No, we did not.
GRACE: You did not.
BENNETT: We requested through their attorney that they be allowed to be interviewed by our local child advocacy center.
GRACE: And you were turned down?
BENNETT: That is correct, twice.
GRACE: Have you been turned down regarding him taking a polygraph, as well?
BENNETT: Early on, Mr. Stebic chose not to submit to a polygraph.
GRACE: And, Chief Bennett -- with us tonight, Plainfield Police Department Chief Donald E. Bennett -- early on in the investigation, it was stated that blood appeared on one of the family vehicles. And Craig Stebic voluntarily stated that, if there was blood there, it must belong to an animal. He is a hunter. Has that blood been analyzed?
BENNETT: Well, all of the items that were taken in our search warrant was submitted to our local crime lab. And, unfortunately, the judge in this particular case with the search warrant had sealed that, so I cannot release information in reference to the search warrant itself.
GRACE: OK, understood.
Out to Dr. William Morrone, medical examiner and forensic pathologist joining us out of Madison Heights, Dr. Morrone, thank you for being with us again.
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Thank you.
GRACE: Dr. Morrone, if there had been a cleanup within the home or a cleanup of evidence in one of the family vehicles, would you see evidence of that?
MORRONE: If you see evidence in a vehicle of a substance that doesn`t ordinarily belong in that vehicle, such as a high concentration of bleach, you don`t want bleach on paint. You don`t want bleach on nice carpet. And you don`t want bleach on leather. It doesn`t belong there. That`s very suspicious.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Shirley in Kansas, hi, Shirley.
CALLER: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question?
CALLER: I have a question. Do we know if we these kids have talked to a teacher, a guidance counselor at school, a social worker, or anything of that nature about their mom going missing? And if so, couldn`t the police subpoena those records?
GRACE: Excellent question. To Kimberly Young, very dear friend of missing Lisa Stebic, have the children spoken to a guidance counselor or a psychologist?
KIMBERLY YOUNG, FRIEND OF LISA STEBIC: As far as I know, no, they have not.
GRACE: You know, that`s very interesting, to Dr. July, William July, psychologist and author, that, even though Stebic refuses to allow his children to speak to police, you would think, with the mom missing, he may allow them to speak to a guidance counselor or a mental health therapist. Of course, that would then be protected under patient/doctor privilege. But he`s not letting them speak to anyone.
WILLIAM JULY, PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely. That`s what needs to happen. These kids need to have an opportunity on two sides. Number one, as far as the case is concerned, they need to have a chance to talk. Number two, for their own mental health, which is why I cannot understand why he won`t encourage these kids to talk, and there`s no reason to not let them talk and interact with the authorities.
GRACE: And, Dr. July, another thing -- and I`m thinking back on a lot of child molestation or child abuse cases that I tried -- regardless of the outcome of the case or whatever happened, the child grows up knowing that someone went to bat for them. Somebody tried. Even if he failed, he tried. And in this case, I wonder, if Lisa Stebic is never found, God forbid, how they will grow up thinking, "Is it any fault because I didn`t tell police x, y or z? Is it my fault they didn`t find Mommy?"
JULY: That is the bottom line, Nancy, and that`s exactly the way these kids will feel. The rest of their lives, you`re affecting their lives, their children`s lives. Every sort of event that they`re going to have in their life is going to be predicated on what`s going on right now. He`s got to let -- that`s why they have child advocates. Someone mentioned that earlier. Let the child advocates, the experts in dealing with kids in this situation, let them talk to the kids. They can get answers out of the kids without traumatizing them.
GRACE: To Sherry in Arkansas, hi, Sherry.
CALLER: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
CALLER: I was curious, too, are the kids -- have they not been allowed to see Lisa`s family and maybe talk to them about what they know?
GRACE: I was just speaking to Kimberly Young about that, and I believe they all went on a vacation just recently. But according to Kimberly, we don`t know if they mentioned anything about the day their mom disappeared, and the family didn`t ask them.
And a reason for that, Sherry, is, if this ever does go to trial, you don`t want allegations by the defense the family of Lisa Stebic coached them in some way to get an answer. So bottom line is they have seen them but apparently have not talked about the day Lisa went missing, as far as we know.
To Christine in Ohio, hi, Christine.
CALLER: Hello. I have two questions. Did Craig ever help in any of the searches for Lisa? And on the vacations the children went on with the maternal grandparents, did Craig allow this willingly, or was there some kind of court order?
GRACE: Good questions. Kimberly Young, had Craig Stebic helped on any of the searches?
YOUNG: No, ma`am.
GRACE: And did he willingly allow them to go on vacation with Lisa`s family or was that a struggle?
YOUNG: No, he willingly allowed them to go.
GRACE: Willingly allowed them to go. Tell me about her, Kimberly. What were her spirits? What kind of mother was she?
YOUNG: She was great. She was a wonderful person, wonderful spirit, and loved her children more than her own life.
GRACE: Can you ever imagine her willingly just disappearing and leaving those kids behind, Kimberly?
YOUNG: Never, ever.
GRACE: And to Bob Roberts, what`s next, Bob?
BOB ROBERTS, REPORTER: This, of course, the Plainfield Police Department has to determine if, indeed, they`re going to be able to find some way for Craig Stebic to talk with them, for Craig Stebic`s children to talk with them. The police are playing this kind of close to the vest. They don`t want to give out too much; they don`t want to let people know where their case is going.
GRACE: When we come back, a convicted sex offender from Thailand now a person of interest in the disappearance of a 12-year-old little Washington girl, Zina Linnik.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... 12-year-old Zina Linnik, but her family refuses to give up hope.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m still worried. Hopefully, everything is good in that my sister is found.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She went missing five days ago, kidnapped in the alley behind her home near 25th and J Street in Tacoma.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A witness heard a scream from the alley and saw a vehicle, a description of which, including a partial plate number, was widely published.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police have been looking for an older model gray van with the number 677 or 667 in the license plate number. Police and FBI agents converged on a home near the PLU campus following up on a tip about a gray van that matched the description.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I want to know why a registered sex offender from Thailand is still in this country. It seems as if ICE, Immigrations and Custom Enforcement, let it slip through the cracks. And now, on July 4th, during the fireworks display, a little 12-year-old girl goes missing. The dad hears a scream, goes out into the back, sees this gray van speeding away. And where the gray van is, he finds his little girl`s red flip flop. Now, where is Immigration and Custom and Homeland Security when you need them? What about this 12-year-old little Washington girl?
Out to Michelle Sigona with "America`s Most Wanted." Give me a thumbnail. What`s happening now?
MICHELLE SIGONA, "AMERICA`S MOST WANTED": Right now, Nancy, what is happening is this man is being held by ICE, as you mentioned, but not because he`s a person of interest in Zina`s case but because he failed to register as a sex offender.
GRACE: Oh, good God in Heaven.
SIGONA: I know.
GRACE: Why is he even here? Why isn`t he back in Thailand?
SIGONA: I asked that same question.
GRACE: You know what his offense was for, to Detective Chris Taylor, with the Tacoma Police Department? I`m sure you do. This guy was charged with rape, and he eventually pled to incest. He had attacked his 16-year-old half-sister, and he ended up doing six months only behind bars. And there he is, jumped up in Tacoma, Washington, and this little girl goes missing. Detective, what`s the status of the investigation tonight?
DET. CHRIS TAYLOR, TACOMA POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, actually, I`m waiting to go to a community meeting here in about 15 minutes. The investigation is continuing. We are looking into the background of the last seven or eight years of this individual that we have in custody right now, where he`s lived, who he`s contacted, that type of thing, to see if he might be involved in any other heinous-type crimes. And it`s unfortunately a slow progress, but we are on it. And we`ve increased the amount of detectives working the case. The FBI is with us, has been here hand in hand since the Fourth. And we`re hoping it`s to come to a conclusion pretty soon.
GRACE: There`s a $16,000 reward for information. You can go to Crime Stoppers, which is 253-830-6508.
Detective, I am so disheartened that this guy, he was here from Thailand, I guess on a work permit, is a registered sex offender. Then he jumps his address, moves somewhere else. That means he has moved illegally and now this little girl goes missing. I know you found some things pursuant to search warrants. Is it true that, either in his home or his van, you found a girl`s underwear?
TAYLOR: That is correct. That was on the return of service for the search warrant, a pair of underwear was listed.
GRACE: Was it found in the home or the vehicle?
TAYLOR: I wasn`t part of the search warrant. I don`t know if it - - I believe it was the house, but I can`t be sure of that. But it was - - the FBI forensics team spent 19 hours on the van and the house, thoroughly searching that. And I`m not sure exactly where the underwear came from.
GRACE: Detective Chris Taylor is joining us from Tacoma, Washington, Police Department. Detective, all I can say is God bless you. And we appreciate everything you`re doing to find little Zina.
Very quickly, everybody, when we come back, we`ll speak to a neighbor of this person of interest. But first, "CNN Heroes."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT SOUTHWORTH, "CHAMPIONING CHILDREN": No soldier goes to war with the expectation of coming home and adopting an orphan from the war zone. My name is Major Scott Harold Southworth. I`m a member of the Wisconsin Army National Guard and the proud father of an Iraqi orphan by the name of Ala`a.
My soldiers and I volunteered at the Mother Teresa orphanage in Baghdad, Iraq. I did not choose Ala`a. Ala`a chose me. When the sisters informed me that they were going to have to move him to the government orphanage, I instantly told them I would adopt him.
There were a number of obstacles to bringing him to the United States, not having enough money, not having a stable enough career, and not having a wife, but I could not, as a Christian man, walk away from that little boy. It really was a step of faith for me to just put that into action.
You`re a good little boy. I know you are. OK.
It`s been about two-and-a-half years since I picked Ala`a up in Baghdad. He`s learning how to walk. He`s doing addition and subtraction. He`s learning to read the English language. He`s just a brilliant little boy.
Work those legs. Work those legs.
He`s limited by some of the things he can do physically, but I never treat Ala`a as though he`s disabled.
ALA`A, ADOPTED SON OF SCOTT SOUTHWORTH: I love you, Papa.
SOUTHWORTH: I love you, too, my buddy.
Ala`a is so much more a blessing to me than I am to him. I felt a ton of sympathy for Ala`a when I was in Iraq, but Ala`a didn`t need my sympathy. What he needed was some action.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: What has become of a 12-year-old little Washington girl? Out to Amber Higgenbottom, neighbor of the man being questioned in this case and others. Welcome, Ms. Higgenbottom. Thank you for being with us. Did you see your neighbor, now a person of interest, on July the 4th?
AMBER HIGGENBOTTOM, NEIGHBOR OF PERSON OF INTEREST: No, I did not.
GRACE: Did you see his van?
HIGGENBOTTOM: No, it was not here, and I went to bed at 12:00, and it still was not home.
GRACE: Had it been there earlier during the day?
HIGGENBOTTOM: No, it was not.
GRACE: And so when you went to bed, no van. When did you first see the van back in his home?
HIGGENBOTTOM: When we woke up the next morning, his van was back.
GRACE: Did you have any idea, Amber, you were living next to a registered sex offender?
HIGGENBOTTOM: No, I did not.
GRACE: What else can you tell us about your neighbor?
HIGGENBOTTOM: He`s a very quiet man. He`s very strange. He likes to look at the children in the neighborhood. He stands outside underneath those trees and kind of acts like he`s doing little things in his yard and looks at the children around the neighborhood and just a quiet man. Nobody knew him. He didn`t really say hi to anyone, nothing.
GRACE: Well, Amber, I think we`re about to learn a lot more about him. With us, neighbor Amber Higgenbottom.
Let`s stop very quickly to remember Army Specialist Joseph Kenny from Veneta, Oregon. Killed, Iraq. A computer specialist, had a great sense of humor and bright personality, loved taking care of others and making friends smile. Leaving behind parents, Linda and John, brother, Michael, sisters, Jennifer, Taylor and Mercedes. Joseph Kenny, American hero.
Thanks to all our guests. And tonight, a special good night from Georgia and Alabama friends of the show, Connie, Caitlyn, Jill and Dana. Aren`t they beautiful? Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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