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O.J. Simpson Freed on $125,000 Bond
Aired September 19, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Gridiron great and disgraced double murder suspect O.J. Simpson walks free on $125,000 bail. Translation -- $18,750 bail, and Simpson walks. Simpson warned to stay away from co-defendants, victims and witnesses. Simpson, along with five others, indicted for blasting into a casino`s private hotel room, locked and loaded with semi-automatic weapons, making off with an estimated $100,000 of sports memorabilia, much of it featuring Joe Montana, Duke Snider and Pete Rose. And it`s all caught on tape. Simpson in court today, handcuffed, in prison blue, facing felony charges of kidnap, armed robbery, aggravated assault, all with a deadly weapon.
As we go to air, we learn suspect number five turns himself in, while a key witness is arrested by the feds, and one victim still in ICU from a massive heart attack after the armed robbery.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BONAVENTURE, JR., NEVADA JUSTICE OF THE PEACE: This charges you with the crimes of conspiracy to commit a crime, a gross misdemeanor offense, conspiracy to commit kidnapping, a felony offense, conspiracy to commit robbery, a felony offense, burglary while in possession of a deadly weapon, a felony offense, two counts of first degree kidnapping with use of a deadly weapon, both felony offenses, two counts of robbery with use of a deadly weapon, both felony offenses, two counts of assault with use of a deadly weapon, both felony offenses, and coercion with use of a deadly weapon, a felony offense.
Mr. Simpson, do you understand the charges against you?
O.J. SIMPSON: Yes, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. Breaking news. Orenthal James Simpson walks on bail, leaving prosecutors digging in to prepare for trial. But this time, bye-bye LA! It`s a jury Vegas style.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BONAVENTURE: Bail is set in this case at $125,000 total bail cash assurety (ph). As a condition, Mr. Simpson, there are certain conditions to posting bond here. You`re ordered to surrender your passport to your attorney, Mr. Galanter. Additionally, you`re ordered to have no contact whatsoever with any co-defendants named in this case, any potential witnesses named in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: O.J. Simpson, former NFL star, was released from the detention center in Clark County there in Las Vegas. And outside were a whole lot of people, many folks who were cheering for him and others who were jeering him, as well, as he exited there in a suit, whereas earlier in the day, we saw him in a navy jumpsuit in court at a bail hearing, where his attorney managed to convince the judge to allow him to post $125,000 bond.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A hundred twenty-five thousand dollars bond -- translation, just 15 percent of that put up, and Simpson walks free. He is en route to his Florida home as we speak.
Let`s go straight to Court TV`s correspondent Jean Casarez. She`s standing by at the courthouse right now. What happened in court today, Jean?
JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: Good afternoon -- good evening, Nancy. It was a packed courthouse today. It was O.J. Simpson`s initial appearance. On one side of the courtroom, you had the O.J. Simpson family, Arnell (ph) Simpson, his sister, Shirley, was there. On the other side of the courtroom, you had Marcia Clark, former prosecutor of Los Angeles, and feet away was O.J. Simpson.
There was a stipulation on both sides for bail, $125,000 for bail for all of those felonies. And within four hours, that bail had been posted, O.J. Simpson was out of the detention center and on a plane back to Miami.
GRACE: What exactly happened in court? What did the judge, Judge Bonaventure, tell Simpson?
CASAREZ: The judge said that he would agree with the stipulation, but he said there were conditions of bail. Number one, that his passport had to be turned over to his attorney within 24 hours. Plus, he could not leave the country at all. Number two, that he could travel throughout the United States freely, but -- and the judge kept emphasizing this -- he could not talk with any of the witnesses, any of the co-defendants. And that meant, Mr. Simpson, he said, even going to a third party and have a third party trying to communicate with a witness or a co-defendant or an alleged victim. You cannot in any way talk to any of the people involved in this case.
GRACE: To Kato Kaelin, everyone. You remember Kaelin. He was the country`s favorite house guest that testified in the O.J. Simpson murder trial. Mr. Kaelin, thank you for being with us. Surprised at all when your former landlord turns up on felony charges again?
KATO KAELIN, FORMER O.J. HOUSE GUEST: No, I`m not, and I`ll tell you why, Nancy. It`s birds of a feather. You know, it`s inevitable that it`s going to happen to O.J. He`s been in the news, constantly in the news with terrible things happening -- the 911 call with his daughter. We had it with DirecTV, he was stealing, he was pirating it. He had an incident in a car with a guy who was going to try to sue him. It was a spiral going down and down. So this was inevitable.
I compare it to "The Godfather." O.J.`s life is a trilogy. Part one, the criminal trial. Part two is the civil trial. And now part three, which may be the final chapter, is the robbery trial. And you know, Nancy, in the first trial, he sort of looked somewhat arrogant when he was in front of the judge, and now he does look defeated.
GRACE: You know, Kato Kaelin, when was the last time you saw Simpson?
KAELIN: Well, like I said, I was going to say the judge -- he said he has no contact with witnesses. I hope he meant the criminal trial, too. But I have absolutely no contact. I have not seen him since the civil trial.
GRACE: What happened in the civil trial, the last time you saw him?
KAELIN: Believe it or not -- I always had a person next to me. The only time I wasn`t with a lawyer, with someone, was when I went to the restroom. He was there, and we were there alone and he just said to answer the questions honestly. And then I walked out. That`s the last time...
GRACE: Wa-wa-wa-wa-wait. Simpson comes up to you in the men`s room and tells you you`d better answer the questions honestly?
KAELIN: That was it. That`s the last time we had any dialogue.
GRACE: OK. So Jean Casarez, all these warnings from the judge are a hill of beans, if Kaelin`s telling the truth. I have no reason to think he`s not.
CASAREZ: Well, that is true. And I think it`s very interesting that one of the conditions of bail -- and a low bail, you must say, for all of those felonies -- is a judge saying, You can`t talk to anyone. And I think it`ll be very interesting to see what the future holds in that particular area.
GRACE: Well, speaking of talking to anybody -- to Art Harris, investigative journalist at Artharris.com and others -- Art, he talked his head off to the police.
ART HARRIS, ARTHARRIS.COM: Just a second. I just lost...
GRACE: Art, can you hear me? OK, Art, get your mike back on and I`ll come straight back to you.
HARRIS: Here we go. Here we go. I`m back.
GRACE: Art? Simpson talked his head off to police. What did he say?
HARRIS: Simpson sat down with detectives after they tracked him down at his hotel room, and he kept saying that this was not a crime, that when he heard the armed robbery on the news, that he knew they would come talking to him, but that he had gone there with the intention of taking back his possessions, that this was not at all as it may have appeared. And he got really angry when he heard people badmouthing him and saying terrible things on the news, and that`s when he said he knew that they would be coming to talk to him.
But he was very cooperative, police said, and he just kept yakking. He yakked there in the room. He yakked on the way to the police station...
GRACE: I thought he was trying to find out...
HARRIS: ... and he may, according to lawyers...
GRACE: ... why the victims had not been arrested.
HARRIS: ... have talked to much, as they said...
GRACE: Art, Art, Art...
HARRIS: ... at the press conference today, Do not call us...
HARRIS: ... if you`re a reporter, he will not be granting any more interviews, Nancy.
GRACE: OK, Liz, can you fix Art`s earpiece?
Going through the police report, Jean Casarez, it`s my understanding he also wanted to know why the victims hadn`t been arrested.
CASAREZ: That`s right. And I think one thing -- one thing that has come out that he said to the media -- so you`re not involved in any custodial interrogation or a lack of Miranda rights -- was that this was a sting operation. And I think that is a point that the prosecution is going to seize on as this case goes forward.
GRACE: What else did we learn from the police report, Jean?
CASAREZ: Well, you know, the police report, that from my knowledge is sealed and has been sealed -- and there were three arrest warrants that were executed. But I spoke with law enforcement today that has read everything, and they told me that they believe some of these counts are going to stick until the end.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Dolores in New York. Hi, Dolores.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, hi, Nancy. I`m curious, where does he get that money for bail? And shouldn`t it be going to the Goldmans?
GRACE: Excellent question. Let`s go out to Ed Lavandera. Where is he getting the money for the bail?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, O.J. Simpson does make money from his NFL pension. He`s done autograph shows, and he`s counted on money from that. I`m not exactly clear as to if he does -- the money that he brings in, if it automatically all has to go out the door, out to the Goldmans. So I`m not exactly sure how that works out. And obviously, it hasn`t been because the Goldmans keep bringing him back to court to try to get as much of it back as possible.
GRACE: I`ll tell you how it works, Ed. There`s a judgment against him of over $33 million. But there has to be a sheriff there to grab the money every time he walks out of one of those memorabilia signing events. And who pays for that? The victim.
I want to go out now to John Zarrella, standing by at Simpson`s home there in Florida. John, what do you see there?
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, a lot of us here, a lot of media here. His home is behind us here. You can see the -- a lot of traffic on the streets, as well. We expect O.J. is going to land in Ft. Lauderdale tonight, about an hour north of here, perhaps about 11:30 PM. So again, about an hour`s drive to get down here.
And you know, Nancy, one other thing about his money. In the bankruptcy court proceedings that we covered here about a month ago, where the rights to the book, "If I Did It," were given to the Goldmans, it came out that O.J., the initial money he got up front, some $700,000 from the initial publisher, and then when they went to bankruptcy court, of course, he then claimed, well, he didn`t have the money anymore, he got rid of it, he spent it. So there`s money around. Just a question of, as you said, getting your hands on it.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Susan Moss out of New York, Renee Rockwell out of Atlanta, Alan Ripka, defense attorney, also out of New York. Susan Moss, weigh in.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Let`s get this straight. He gets five of his loser friends to get a gun, go in, kidnap people, hold them hostage, hold them against the wall. I don`t care if these are his old tube socks. The juice deserves the noose. This guy is guilty, and he needs to pay for these felonies, regardless of whether it`s a robbery. He committed assault, battery, and he deserves to go to jail!
GRACE: Alan Ripka, what is your defense? We know that Simpson is claiming it was a sting operation. You know, Alan, those are usually conducted by police and federal agents. But the fact that 30 to 50 -- and I`m reading from the police reports and statements -- 30 to 50 of these items were Joe Montana lithographs, 24 Pete Rose and Duke Snider baseballs, three press balls, three game balls, an all-American team ball, plaques, Eastman Kodak team ball, a J. Edgar Hoover document, and Fromong`s cell phone. Now, that doesn`t sound like memorabilia that Simpson rightfully thought was his.
ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, the best evidence is the tape that you heard. On the tape, Simpson says, What are you doing with my things? You have no right to sell my things. You stole my things. He didn`t know he was being taped, so what better evidence of what his mindset was at that time? I don`t see this as a robbery at all. I see a man who`s dead broke, who thought these things were his and who wanted to get them back.
GRACE: Dead broke? Have you seen that shack he`s living in in Florida? Dead broke? You know, Alan, listen, I know that you went to an accredited law school. I know you win your cases in court. Reality -- going in, even to retrieve your own items at gunpoint -- if these had been his own items, rightfully his -- would still be a crime. This is still an aggravated assault. He could have called police and said, Look, my stuff is in this room at this casino, I want it back. Instead, according to reports by the police, he breaks in with two semi-automatic weapons.
RIPKA: Well, Nancy, he denies there being any guns. And as for kidnapping, I don`t see any intent to kidnap anybody here, Nancy. So all I can say is this -- because the guy was acquitted of murder, everyone wants to see a second murder trial here. And I simply ask...
GRACE: No, that would require a dead body, Alan. Nobody wants another, a third dead body.
RIPKA: Well, you know what I mean, Nancy. Obviously, if this guy had not been acquitted of murder, you wouldn`t get this kind of press on this type of charge.
GRACE: Yes, woulda, coulda, shoulda. Good try, Alan. I respect that.
Renee Rockwell, give it a whirl.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, rule number one is get your client out, and that`s some good lawyer work because he`s out. And these people don`t care when this case...
GRACE: Yes, I`ve got to say Galanter is no idiot.
ROCKWELL: And something else, Nancy. You`re going to have to convince 12 jurors that he did this, and they`re going to get confused with party to a crime and conspiracy. These lawyers can get up there and say, He didn`t have a gun, he didn`t know these guys were going to pull a gun, he only went in there to get his stuff. And don`t think that -- one juror could mess the whole thing up, Nancy, and he can walk from this.
GRACE: You know -- back out to Jean Casarez -- according to what we know right now, this had been in the works, allegedly, for three weeks. When you get, as one of the victims said, a bunch of thugs, how can you not see that two of them have weapons?
CASAREZ: Right. Right. Well, we know, police have said that they confiscated two weapons. You know what I think is interesting here, though, is there is so much that we don`t know. Let`s face it, there is so much that`s in the hands of the district attorney now that I think will not come out probably until trial.
But one thread we see in all of these counts is conspiracy, and that is a plan. Those are people that get together and devise a plan and a scheme with, obviously, an outward step involved. So I think that conspiracy is an important part of this entire case.
GRACE: To Mike Brooks, former D.C. cop, former fed. I think Jean`s right. There`s going to be a lot of evidence that we don`t know about. For instance, Mike, hi, this was in a casino, where every breath you take is being videoed. What else do you expect them to have in their arsenal?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Nancy, we`ve got some of his buddies now flipping on him. You`ve got Walter Alexander, who was one of the guys who apparently went into the room and identified himself as a police officer -- he`s flipping on him now. You`ve got Riccio, who apparently has immunity, who is the mastermind of this whole fraud scheme. Now he`s flipping on him, too, because he said he`s got immunity, and he`s the one that had the tape recorder.
There`s a lot of statements that they`re going to get now from Cashmore, these other guys. They`re all going to flip on him, Nancy, saying that he`s the one that planned it, he`s the one that told them to carry out, he was the one that put together this whole gang. And that`s when they went up and hit that door with speed, surprise, and violence of action, held those guys at gunpoint and robbed them.
GRACE: You know, Mike Brooks, as I always said to juries, sometimes you`ve got to go to hell to put the devil in jail. And long story short, who do you think is hanging around with O.J. Simpson, nuns and priests and virgins? No. So the witnesses the state is going to have to put up are going to have credibility problems. Long story short. But you`ve got to take your witnesses the way you find them.
And speaking of the other co-defendants -- to Ed Lavandera, CNN correspondent at the courthouse today. Ed, what were the bonds for the other co-defendants?
LAVANDERA: The one that was arrested today was about $80,000, and everybody else has been pretty much in that ballpark, as well.
GRACE: And back out to Renee Rockwell. So Simpson`s is right in there in the ballpark with the others. A lot of people are kicking up a fuss that he had on jail prison blues today in court. That`s not unusual for a first appearance.
ROCKWELL: No, not a...
GRACE: When you need to put a defendant in a suit or in street clothes is when you`ve got a jury.
ROCKWELL: Yes. And Nancy, they`re bringing him in there, and they`re trying to treat him just like any regular defendant. But Nancy, I`m not so sure he even had to put the money up for that bail. A bondsman might have gotten that bail on a promise.
GRACE: You know what? You`re absolutely right. It`s my understanding -- we learned this going to air -- that the bondsman was so happy about putting up the bond for Simpson, that Simpson autographed the guy`s T-shirt. OK. I can tell you right now, we`ve got a problem.
Out to Judy in West Virginia. Hi, Judy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, Nancy. Great show. Great show.
GRACE: Thank you, love.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Comment and question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Comment is I hate that Alan fell on his head again.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He couldn`t be more wrong in his take. Second question -- the question is -- I`m just an ordinary person. What would my bail be?
GRACE: Oh, miss Judy in West Virginia, you would be under the jail at West Virginia. Agree or disagree, Mike Brooks?
BROOKS: Absolutely. I mean, that was a victory for the O.J. Simpson camp today, $125,000 put up by a bail bondsman, who got an autograph and some more memorabilia out of his whole thing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BONAVENTURE: You understand the no contact order includes having third -- third parties contact any of these individuals on your behalf? Do you understand that?
SIMPSON: Yes, sir.
BONAVENTURE: Obviously, a violation of any of these orders would be a violation of the -- your release in this case. I will be made aware by the district attorney of any violations, and we can proceed with you in custody on this case if you violate this order. Do you understand everything?
SIMPSON: Yes, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: O.J. Simpson in court today, answering up on 10 felony charges. The next court hearing, 10/22.
Out to the lines. Julie in Missouri. Hi, Julie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First off, congratulations. I have twins, too. Get your sleep.
GRACE: I`m not getting a bit. They keep me up all night long. And then I`ve got to worry about Simpson walking free with a semi-automatic weapon. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it`s the gentlemen that had the heart attack. If he passes away, would he be charged with murder, and then would his bail be revoked?
GRACE: Interesting question. Let`s go out to Charles E. Kelly, former federal prosecutor and now Las Vegas attorney. Mr. Kelly, welcome to the show. That is a bit attenuated for a civil suit, if the heart attack victim dies. That won`t stop them from filing a lawsuit, though, Mr. Kelly.
CHARLES E. KELLY, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: That is correct. For a civil lawsuit, you`re correct, it would be a proximate cause question. As for the criminal matter, it would be rather tenuous, I`d submit. However, I will tell you that I was in the courthouse today, and there was quite a bit of speculation about that very question. So it`s not...
GRACE: Oh, yes. Everybody`s asking me. Hey, Charles, what can you tell me about Bonaventure? I`m familiar with his father. I covered one of his trials live. His father`s a great judge. What can you tell me about this Bonaventure?
KELLY: His father did the Binion (ph) trial.
KELLY: And Dave Rogers (ph), who`s the current district attorney, tried the case in front of his father.
GRACE: Was that a ponytail I saw on him?
KELLY: That is a ponytail. He`s...
GRACE: I`m not holding that against him. What`s his record?
KELLY: He`s a pretty good judge, frankly. He came in under his father`s coattails, if you will. And we elect judges here. His father had a strong name here. However, he was nonetheless elected pretty strongly. Once he came in, he has pretty much become his own man, though, and he has a pretty good reputation.
GRACE: Is he defense-oriented or state-oriented?
KELLY: No, I`ll tell you something -- I would -- I`ve been in front of him quite a bit, and I feel like he`s pretty -- unlike some of them, he`s pretty much right down the middle.
GRACE: Down the middle.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
O.J. SIMPSON: Don`t let nobody out of this room. (EXPLETIVE DELETED)! Think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and sell it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
SIMPSON: Don`t let nobody out of here. (EXPLETIVE DELETED)! You think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BONAVENTURE: Mr. Simpson, do you understand the charges against you?
SIMPSON: Yes, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: O.J. Simpson back in court today, this time on 10 felony charges.
Back to Jean Casarez, Court TV correspondent, in the courtroom today, along with CNN correspondent Ed Lavandera. Jean, what are the charges?
CASAREZ: The charges -- there are 11 charges. Let`s go through them. First of all, one count of conspiracy to commit a crime, one count of conspiracy to commit kidnapping, one count of conspiracy to commit robbery, two counts -- one count of burglary while in the possession of a deadly weapon, two counts of first degree kidnapping with the use of a deadly weapon, two counts of robbery with the use of a deadly weapon, two counts of assault with a deadly weapon, and finally, one count of coercion with a deadly weapon.
And Nancy, that count, coercion with a deadly weapon, we had heard nothing about this. And what this is alluding to, according to prosecutors, is that Bruce Fromong, one of the alleged victims, had a cell phone in his hand. He wanted to try to call 911, and then O.J. Simpson, according to prosecutors, pushed that phone out of his hand, thus you have coercion.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON STEWART, HOST, "THE DAILY SHOW": O.J.? Is that you? It is you! You`ve come back. Yes, if the world`s off track, O.J. must come back. And he knew, he knew how much we needed him. You can see it in his mugshot. Look at the twinkle.
CONAN O`BRIEN, HOST, "LATE NIGHT": This is the latest. One of the men who was allegedly robbed by O.J. Simpson is now saying he won`t press charges. Yeah. Yeah, in exchange, O.J. has promised to not double murder the man. That`s nice.
JAY LENO, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW": O.J.`s lawyer objected to O.J. being held without bail. He said, if he was anyone besides O.J., he would have been released by now. If it was anybody but O.J., he`d be serving life for double murder right now. Shut up. Shut up, please.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Exactly what I would say to the jury. There you see "The Daily Show`s" Jon Stewart, Conan, and Leno from NBC, all dead on the money. It`s actually a laughing matter to many people that Simpson is back again, and I get it, after the debacle of a double-murder acquittal with overwhelming evidence.
And, you know, that may be a defense at trial, Renee Rockwell, the defense arguing that prosecutors are just out for blood because he got off in California. And while it doesn`t make any legal sense, it may strike home with one of the jurors.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Can you say jury nullification, Nancy? You know what that means. That means a jury does crazy...
GRACE: Actually, no, I never had a jury give me a not guilty on jury nullification.
ROCKWELL: I know that, but you know what that means. And for whatever reason, they can completely ignore the evidence and absolutely come back with a not guilty.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Pat in Georgia. Hi, Pat.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
CALLER: I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you.
CALLER: My question is this: If O.J. is so dead broke, who`s going to pay his defense attorneys?
GRACE: You know, I`ve got a funny feeling, Jonathan Polak, that those defense attorneys haven`t been paid in a really long time. Hey, maybe they get paid with all this memorabilia.
JONATHAN POLAK, ATTORNEY FOR GOLDMAN FAMILY: I think a lot of them are creditors of his daughter`s bankrupt company down in Miami. They haven`t been paid. They`ve been supposedly not paid, I guess, at least. I don`t know where he gets the money. And we`ve been chasing it, and chasing it, and chasing it. Every time we think we`re close, the shells get moved again.
GRACE: But, Jonathan, if you want to get the money, you have to go to every single memorabilia signing that he is at walking out with, literally, literally, a bag full of cash. But this is what I don`t get, Jonathan -- with us is Jonathan Polak. This is the Goldman family attorney. Jonathan, you`ve been dealing with chasing Simpson for a long, long time. He had it all. He`s got money. He`s got women. He`s got a mansion. He goes wherever he wants to. Here he is in Vegas on a vacation. Why do this and get into trouble all over again, Jonathan? You know him better than any of us.
POLAK: He`s got those things, but I`ll tell you what he doesn`t have, Nancy. He doesn`t have a soul. And that`s his problem. And that`s why he does these things. Read the "If I Did It" book. You`ll look at how he talks about his ex-wife, the woman who he nearly decapitated, the mother of his children. He talks about her in the book so poorly. He stabbed Ron Goldman through the heart. This is not the kind of guy who does good things. And when you read the book and you listen to his audio, you see he`s a bad guy.
GRACE: You know what, Jonathan? You know what? The other night, we had Ron Goldman`s little sister on, Kim, and the other day I was at an event trying to raise money for battered women, and Denise Brown was there. And I wouldn`t say this if they were on the show, but, you know, Nicole Brown`s head was hanging on by her neck bone. Her throat was sliced all the way through.
And, you know, after having been a crime victim myself, for the longest time I couldn`t even think about holding or looking at a gun. In fact, the first time I finally put my hand on a gun was when I had to hold one up to a jury 15 years later as evidence. And it`s very interesting what you said just then. This is Jonathan Polak, the Goldman family attorney.
I want to also -- back to Zarrella, John Zarrella, CNN correspondent, standing by in Miami, Florida. You`re there at the house where he`s coming home. What is the house like? I`ve seen pictures of it, but I`ve never -- of course, I`ve never been invited to dinner, let me just say. What`s it like? Is it as big and beautiful as we`ve heard?
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, it`s funny, because O.J.`s actually invited some journalists in who`ve been here occasionally. He`d walk out. Sometimes he`ll come out. At one point, he actually invited some folks in for lunch as long as they didn`t bring their cameras. It`s pretty opulent. It sits there behind those hedges back there.
When he bought it in 1999, Nancy, it was valued at $575,000. We checked the property records now. It`s valued at about $1.1 million right now. So it`s quite nice, over 4,000 square feet under air, so quite a nice piece of property.
GRACE: You know, back to Kato Kaelin, witness in the Simpson criminal murder trial, did you notice all the deja vu going down today? There were people standing out in front of the courthouse saying "O.J. was framed." It reminds me of the posters saying "Go Juice." You had the Bronco ride all over again. What about it?
KATO KAELIN, WITNESS AT MURDER TRIAL: Yes, Nancy. Nancy, I swear to you, this morning I woke up with a sweat. I thought I had to testify. It was just like a deja vu completely. You know, the Bronco chase, they`re not having it here. They`re having all these characters. Instead it`s the Bronco chase with these guys, Beardsley getting arrested now. It`s kind of ironic now that O.J. probably can`t sell any more sports memorabilia, but he`ll probably have like a business selling jail memorabilia, if he has like a jump suit signed or anything, he`s been there so often.
GRACE: You know, I wouldn`t be surprised if that doesn`t happen. Take a look at this...
KAELIN: And the tapes, too.
GRACE: ... 1994 and 2007, and the tape. You`re absolutely correct. Caryn Stark, when you saw Simpson in court today, what did you see?
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, I saw a man, Nancy, who, despite all of this, still has a nonplussed kind of attitude. He still seems a little defiant. He doesn`t look like someone who`s been beaten down, even though I`ve heard some people say that. He really looks like that twinkle in his eye, like, OK, you know...
GRACE: Well, I`ve got to say, Jon Stewart -- was it Jon Stewart? No, it was Conan O`Brien -- was right. He didn`t look scared at all. He looked happy. He was kind of smiling, half-smiling in the mug shot. Out to the lines, Tammy in Ohio, hi, Tammy.
CALLER: Hi. Thanks for taking my call.
GRACE: Yes, ma`am.
CALLER: We love you here, and congratulations.
GRACE: Thank you. Can you believe it?
CALLER: My question -- I know. Good luck. My question is, how will they be able to determine the authenticity of the tapes, as well as can it be determined if any pertinent information may have been omitted?
GRACE: Did you ask me, Tammy, about the admissibility of the tapes?
CALLER: Well, yes, that, and how will they determine if anything may have been omitted off of those tapes?
GRACE: Ah, good question. Out to Mike Brooks. Mike, you and I have both done it a million times in court, the validity of an audiotape. Plus, you`ve got to deal with the casino photos, which I believe likely exist.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE: Oh, absolutely the casino photos exist, casino photos, casino videos. From the time you come into that casino to the time you leave, you are on camera. And Riccio has admitted, yes, he was audiotaping, and he audiotaped it from the time they went into the room. So you`ve got that. The police have it. You can get an audiologist to go ahead and tape a look at those tapes to see if there`s any breaks in that, and that will be put in as evidence.
GRACE: And, you know, to Alan Ripka, defense attorney, I`m sure you`ve done it on your side of the fence, like I have as a former prosecutor. The crime lab, the state crime lab, or the feds, or a private lab can listen to an audiotape for those breaks that Mike Brooks accurately just described to determine if anything has been left out. And also, Alan, it`s easy as pie to get in valid photographs. You`ve just got to lay a foundation, correct?
ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s right, Nancy. All you have to do is lay a foundation, make sure that everything`s authentic and nothing`s been tampered with, and you can get them into evidence, and the jury can hear and see them.
GRACE: To Annette in Georgia. Hi, Annette, what`s your question?
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. Love you. Love your show.
GRACE: Thank you, dear.
CALLER: My question is -- and I`ll be real brief -- if Alfred Beardsley is one of the victims, how come he got arrested? And could it be because the memorabilia he has by the officials are claiming it`s stolen or what?
GRACE: Jean Casarez, what about it?
JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: Long story. He is arrested. He is in the local Clark County jail here in Las Vegas on a fugitive arrest warrant. And here`s the situation. He was still on a parole situation out of California. He was not supposed to be in the state of Nevada. His parole, his probation is over in a week-and-a-half after three years, but it`s not going to be anymore. So he was convicted in 2004 of stalking, and that`s how this all began. He violated his probation in 2004 again, and then went for two years in prison, was released. Now he`s going to have...
GRACE: So, long story short, Jane, he is not in jail on this incident, he`s in jail for a probation violation that would have been up in a week-and-a-half, right?
CASAREZ: That is right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIMPSON: Don`t let nobody out of here, man. And you, I trusted you, man!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bag this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bag this (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
SIMPSON: Where`d you get all my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) personal (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you received a copy of this criminal complaint?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My only focus up until this point in time has been securing Mr. Simpson`s release.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Crimes of conspiracy to commit a crime, a gross misdemeanor offense; conspiracy to commit kidnapping, a felony offense; conspiracy to commit robbery, a felony offense; burglary while in possession of deadly weapon, a felony offense; two counts of first-degree kidnapping with use of a deadly weapon, both felony offenses; two counts of robbery with use of a deadly weapon, both felony offenses; two counts of assault with use of a deadly weapon, both felony offenses; and coercion with use of a deadly weapon, a felony offense.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our goal was to get what is, in my opinion, a fair, reasonable bond, allow Mr. Simpson to go home and be with his family. That is going to be accomplished, and we thank everybody who facilitated that in happening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Simpson back in court today answering up on 10 brand-new felony charges. Out to Susan Moss, joining us out of the New York jurisdiction, Susan, what about the fact that people are already saying Simpson was set up and it`s a conspiracy and a frame-up? Have you ever heard such a thing?
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Well, I haven`t. But first I want to apologize for my last statement. I do think I was over the line, and I apologize, and I was wrong. But I don`t think this was a frame-up. There was...
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. What were you wrong about?
MOSS: I had made a comment -- the crimes that he committed are not death penalty crimes. They are not crimes that would cause him, even if sentenced to the fullest extent of the law, to lose his life...
GRACE: Susan, I think we all got your gist, OK? It`s fine. Go ahead. Answer the question. The D.P., that was an issue for the last trial.
MOSS: That`s correct.
GRACE: Go ahead, dear.
MOSS: But I`ve got to tell you something, to even suggest that he was entrapped or somehow set up is ridiculous. Nobody asked him, hey, do you want to get five of your friends and a gun and go kidnap and hold some people hostage? It didn`t happen. There`s a tape in this case, and that tape shows, behind the f-words, that he was the ringleader, that he knew what he was doing and that he was responsible for these crimes.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez, what about the theory that this was actually planned about three weeks ago?
CASAREZ: That`s right, and this is where we don`t know so many things. If this was planned, what was part of the plan? Was part of the plan an audiotape? Was part of the plan to simply go in and get your stuff? And that`s what we`ve heard possibly, that he was just going to go in and figure out what was his and tell them, you know, give it to me, if not I`ll call the police. But then something happened, because the police are saying that guns are involved. Where did that come into play? Was that later? Was that earlier? Did Tom Riccio even not know about the guns, but maybe O.J. did? Or maybe O.J. didn`t know about the guns at all. These are contested issues of fact.
GRACE: Out to Art Harris, investigative journalist, Art, how much do we believe that the tape sold to TMZ for?
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Well, Tom Riccio told me that it was six figures. And that raises other questions...
GRACE: Are you talking about $999,000 or are you talking about $100,000? What did he say?
GRACE: Hmm, well, that`s going to hurt him at trial, Alan Ripka. That hurts his credibility totally.
RIPKA: Of course. It`s going to show his motivation. Here`s a guy who hatched the plan, who happens to have a tape recorder hidden during this entire ordeal. What does that tell you about his credibility?
GRACE: Well, yes, his credibility is bad, but the reality is, it doesn`t change anything about Orenthal James Simpson or what he did. Out to Alice in Kentucky, hi, Alice.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you, dear.
CALLER: I have a two-part question tonight. One, the memorabilia, could that have been, like, monies going to the Goldman family? And, part two, if that was, is that why he did the sting like he did, instead of going to the police?
GRACE: Interesting. To Jonathan Polak, what do you think about that? First of all, it wasn`t a sting, OK? Stings are done by police and federal agents. This was a payback, a word we discussed last night. He believes all this stuff really belongs to him, but the reality is, Polak, it belongs to the Goldmans and the Browns.
POLAK: Sure. We`d like to get it. But the reason why we want it is to prevent him from ever using it, and selling it, and profiting from it. We`ve always tried to put him in a virtual jail cell, both financially, emotionally, everything. That`s the goal.
GRACE: Is that why he`s living in that multimillion-dollar mansion down in Florida? Doesn`t look like a jail cell to me, Mr. Polak.
POLAK: Well, write your congressman. There`s not much we can do about that.
GRACE: Tell it. You`re so right about that.
And I want to go back to Kato Kaelin. The reality is that a lot of the items taken from the room were not Simpson items. They were Joe Montana items, a lot of sports memorabilia that he took. In fact, most of it had nothing to do with Simpson.
KAELIN: Yes, I want to bring up another point, though. Two things you said before. First of all, O.J., you were talking about his demeanor. He knows how to play a camera. He was an actor and a sportscaster. That`s one thing to look for.
And the other thing that is with O.J. -- oh, I just lost my thought here. It`s just -- well, I forgot. I just -- it was -- Nancy, I forgot my thought. It was just right there. Damn!
GRACE: That`s OK. I think I can remind you. When you saw him in court today, did it remind you of the double-murder trial?
KAELIN: Oh, it completely did, and the media frenzy, and just the calls myself that I get of everything that`s going on. I had the audacity of a radio station to ask me to drive out to Vegas in a Bronco with them. So...
GRACE: What did you say?
KAELIN: No, absolutely not. No, no. I don`t want to do that, Nancy. Please.
GRACE: Yes, please, don`t get in a Bronco with Simpson. Remember when he was in the Bronco and then he held himself hostage with a gun before he was arrested? Remember that, with A.C. Cowlings? Oh, yes.
KAELIN: You know, you`d think that he was going to do something like a casino chase, maybe, like he`s ducking by the baccarat table, quick, he`s by video poker. It`s crazy. You cannot plan this -- I`m from Hollywood, Nancy. You could not do another -- this story`s unbelievable.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Sheryl in Pennsylvania. Hi, Sheryl.
CALLER: Hi. Love your show, Nancy.
GRACE: Thank you, dear.
CALLER: Can O.J. request a non-jury trial for this?
GRACE: Can they request a non-jury trial?
GRACE: Yes, they can request a non-jury trial. In most jurisdictions, the defendant gets to do that unilaterally. In some jurisdictions, the state has to join in to do away with the jury. I myself always liked a jury trial.
Back to Renee Rockwell. Think he`ll request a bench trial?
ROCKWELL: Why would he do that? You only have one trier of fact in a bench trial. You`ve got 12 in a jury trial. He needs to roll the dice and go with the 12.
GRACE: Let`s go out to the lines, to Feather in Indiana. Hi, Feather.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. First, I want to say I just love your show.
GRACE: Thank you.
CALLER: And I was wanting to know, is O.J.`s accomplices, are they looking at a life sentence, as well?
GRACE: Are they looking at what?
CALLER: A life sentence, as well?
GRACE: Life sentence as well, OK, I think that when we say life sentence, we`re looking at the cumulative of all the years he is facing. Out to Jean Casarez, what`s he looking at?
CASAREZ: The answer is yes. And, you know, Nancy, the kidnapping charge is a life felony, theoretically. So you`re right. All of them are facing life terms. And, remember, a fifth defendant was arrested today. He`s going to be in court tomorrow for, most likely, the very same felony charges.
GRACE: Is it the chubby white guy in the casino video?
CASAREZ: That`s right. Charles Cashmore is his name, and he`s one of the two men in that still surveillance video that police have been looking for.
GRACE: No offense, sir, I`m a chubby now myself.
Let`s stop to remember Army Specialist Jason Hernandez, 21, Streetsboro, Ohio, killed, Iraq. Enlisted straight from high school, loved football, wrestling, visiting his high school as a recruiter, even getting care packages from them in Iraq. He dreamed of attending Ohio State and building a life with bride Alicia, his high school sweetheart. Leaves behind parents John and Uta, sister, Angela, brother, Aaron. Jason Hernandez, American hero.
Thank you for being with us, inviting us into your home. And a special good night to our Atlanta floor manager, Sir Charles. Walk slow and hurry back, friend. Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.