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Nancy Grace

Body Parts Found Near Blue Barrel Near Chicago River/Police Won`t Question Olsen in Ledger Death

Aired January 25, 2008 - 20:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news in the last minutes there in the Chicago suburbs. We`re on the Stacy Peterson investigation. Police discover human remains in an open field near a Chicago river. We`re taking you live to Chicago.
And also tonight, breaking developments in the death of Hollywood superstar Heath Ledger, Ledger found unclothed, unresponsive, face down in bed inside his exclusive Soho apartment, over-the-counters, six other prescription drugs -- Valium, Ambien, Xanax, Lunesta, plus medications to the U.S. from Europe -- all near Ledger`s body.

Tonight: Will police question TV star Mary-Kate Olsen? Four phone calls to Olsen from the scene of Ledger`s death. So why a cover-up about phone calls? And will that masseuse, the masseuse who discovered Ledger`s body, face criminal charges? Was there a clean-up in Ledger`s Soho apartment before cops arrived? As we go to air, Ledger`s body in transit, reportedly heading to LA, then Australia for burial.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A private viewing today for the family of Heath Ledger. Police are revealing new details, though, about the day that Ledger died. They say that his masseuse found him unconscious in his apartment and then called actress Mary-Kate Olsen three times, not two, before calling 911 and that she also made a fourth call to Olsen after paramedics arrived. Police say the calls will likely not have a major bearing on the investigation because they think Ledger was dead before the masseuse arrived.


GRACE: Tonight: A gorgeous young Marine vanishes into thin air, Camp Lejeune, eight months pregnant when she goes missing, the burned remains of 20-year-old Maria Lauterbach and her unborn child found in the backyard of suspect Marine Corporal Cesar Laurean. New reports that Lauterbach`s throat was cut post-mortem -- after death. Why? To make the evidence fit his story?

Tonight, an honor escort takes the bodies of Lauterbach and her unborn baby home to Ohio for burial, the prime suspect still on the run, presumably in Mexico, the clock is ticking down on results from an unprecedented second autopsy by the military, paternity, lung tissue tests and the gender of the unborn child.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The bodies of Marine Lance Corporal Maria Lauterbach and her unborn child return home to Ohio for burial, the brutal murder of Lauterbach discovered after her sudden disappearance back in December at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, Lauterbach and her unborn baby found buried in the murder suspect`s own backyard. The suspect, a Marine corporal, now a fugitive, last seen casually hanging out near Guadalajara, Mexico. Where is Cesar Laurean?


GRACE: And tonight, a young mom of two vanishes thin air, Philadelphia. Lisa Hatchel (ph) goes missing on the evening of her birthday. Family say no way would she leave her children. Why was her absence not reported for days, possibly weeks? Tonight, where is Lisa Hatchel?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police need your help in finding mother of two and military veteran Lisa Hatchel, Lisa described as 5-foot-3, 135 pounds, black hair, black eyes and a small scar under her neck, Lisa allegedly last seen by neighbors, arguing in the street with her boyfriend of 12 years. A reward now offered as family and friends desperately want to know how a mother can just disappear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I began to worry about Lisa when I called her the 20th and she didn`t call me back because Lisa never missed a week without calling me. Never. I think Tyrone (ph) did something to her. If Lisa was alive, if Lisa could have called me, she would call me. (INAUDIBLE) in July. So something terrible has happened to my child, and I just want the police department to find out what happened.


GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the mystery intensifies in the sudden death of Hollywood superstar 28-year-old Heath Ledger.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police released a more detailed timeline of the calls that Ledger`s massage therapist made when he wouldn`t wake up. Police say she spent nine minutes making three calls to actress Mary-Kate Olsen before she called 911 to get help. The massage therapist called Olsen a fourth time after paramedics arrived.

Now, here`s what police say. They deny reports that they want to talk to the actress about the calls. They believe that Ledger was dead at the time they were made. Olsen released a statement today calling her friend`s death a tragic loss.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Actor Heath Ledger`s body has just been moved now from a funeral home in New York City, and we`re told it will be flown to Los Angeles tonight. As his family and friends mourn, new details are emerging about what happened on the day the young actor died. Police say the masseuse who found his body on Tuesday spent nine minutes making three calls to actress Mary-Kate Olsen before she dialed 911 for help. The massage therapist then called Olsen a fourth time after the paramedics arrived.


GRACE: Tonight, breaking news. As we go to air, we learn that police are scouring a vacant lot on the southwest side there in Chicago after a contract worker finds human remains frozen into the ground. A worker was there, conducting soil samples, found skeletal remains around South Kedzie (ph) Avenue just south of the Chicago sanitary and ship canal.

I want to go straight out to Mary Frances Bragiel, reporter with WBBM Newsradio 780. Mary Frances, welcome. What can you tell us?

MARY FRANCES BRAGIEL, WBBM NEWSRADIO 780: Basically, we are awaiting an autopsy, which we`re not expecting to get the results from until tomorrow on this. But as you said, it was a -- it was a village (ph) inspection worker from a suburb called Lyons (ph), which Lyons is not far from Bolingbrook, which is where Drew and Stacy Peterson shared their home.

And apparently, he was conducting his daily inspection, and he came across a foot and a leg that appeared to be very decomposed near this, what they say is a blue barrel. So that`s all police will tell us at this point. We have no idea if it`s male or female. An autopsy will be conducted tomorrow.

I did speak to the family spokesperson of Stacy Peterson, Pam Bosco, and she says she is aware of what is going on. She said that all that investigators would tell her is that things are in place (ph) at this point until they can determine exactly if this is Stacy Peterson (INAUDIBLE) things are in place at this point with the investigation.

And I do want to mention the blue barrel has been the focus of this investigation since she disappeared October 28.

GRACE: Everyone, we are giving you breaking news out of Chicago. Human remains have been found on the southwest side after a contract worker was there conducting soil samples, routine soil samples.

Back out to Mary Frances Bragiel with WBBM Newsradio 780. For those that are unfamiliar with the story, explain the significance of the blue barrel as it relates to the disappearance of Stacy Peterson.

BRAGIEL: Well, throughout this investigation, it`s been the focus of this investigation since she disappeared, as I said, October 28. And we have had at least one relative who has come forward, who has said that he helped Drew move a blue barrel out of the home after Stacy Peterson went missing. And he also says that he believes that Stacy`s body could be in this blue barrel.

Now, I want to point pout Drew Peterson and his attorney, since she went missing October 28, have denied that they -- Drew Peterson has denied that he played any role in the disappearance. And he has said over time and time again, and he has stuck to his story, that she had left him for another man. And throughout this time, they`ve had leads and tips saying that she`s been spotted in Peoria and she`s been spotted in Thailand. None of those have actually turned up, but Drew Peterson is sticking by his story that she ran off with another man.

GRACE: Back to the blue barrel. Do we know, Mary Frances, how far away it was from the remains?

BRAGIEL: No. They said it was nearby the remains, a possible blue barrel, is all they will say. We have very little information other than that at this point because it is so new.

GRACE: With us, Mary Frances Bragiel with WBBM Newsradio. Breaking news. Human remains found on the south side of Chicago. Are they the remains of missing mom Stacy Peterson?

The other latest developments on that case is the husband, Drew Peterson, a former cop, has created, basically, a dating game, still telling his children, Mom`s on vacation.

As the months pass by, this is the first real break in the case. I want to go to Dr. Howard Oliver, former deputy medical examiner, a forensic pathologist and expert in his field. Dr. Oliver, the news that we can decipher is that the remains are, quote, "frozen into the ground." As disturbing as those facts are, is there any way this can actually help in the determination, such as DNA, as to whether this is Stacy Peterson?

DR. HOWARD OLIVER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, FMR DPY MEDICAL EXAMINER: Good evening. Yes, it certainly can. You can take tissues or bone marrow and compare the DNA with her children or with her parents to determine if it`s her DNA. You can also trace any DNA evidence in this blue barrel you`re speaking of, and it might be -- it might correlate with the body parts that have been found. And if they`re hers and in the blue barrel, that`s very important evidence.

GRACE: Dr. Oliver, how will the freezing help or hinder the investigation?

OLIVER: It would help the investigation because it preserves the tissues.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Shaun in Arkansas. Hi, Shaun.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, how`re you doing, Nancy?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If that is Stacy, can Drew get the death penalty?

GRACE: It`s my understanding that the death penalty is allowed. What do you know about that, Anne Bremner?

ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, exactly. It is allowed. And the fact is, in a case like this, we don`t know very much right now, but it is a very interesting development with the blue barrel, and of course, these bones.

GRACE: You know, Illinois has long been a death penalty state. However, a couple years ago, a moratorium was set on it, I believe by the then governor of Illinois. Right now, I don`t know how that would affect the outcome of this. If the moratorium is still in place, there will not be death penalty in this case.

Tonight, breaking news on the south side of Chicago. Frozen human remains have been found near a blue barrel. A worker, a local worker conducting routine soil samples found skeleton remains this afternoon in the 3400 block of South Kedzie Avenue. That is just south of the Chicago sanitary and ship canal. The body frozen into the ground, badly decomposed. As of right now, no determination of the sex or the identity of the victim.

Back to Mary Frances Bragiel with 780 Newsradio. Mary Frances, the blue barrel, what more do we know about it? Does it fit the description associated with Drew Peterson, the husband?

BRAGIEL: At this point, we don`t know. We`re all waiting on this. Everyone`s on pins and needles out here in the Chicago area, wondering if this, you know, obviously is Stacy Peterson, if this is the blue barrel that everyone has been talking about, or blue container. We just don`t know at this point. We`re hoping to have more information later on tonight or tomorrow.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Rachel in Maryland. Hi, Rachel.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Congratulations. Your kids are gorgeous, just like you.

GRACE: Thank you. I really appreciate that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sure. I have a quick question. I was wondering why the friend would even think that her body was in the blue barrel.

GRACE: Mary Frances, how did the blue barrel story originate?

BRAGIEL: Basically, this came up from grand jury testimony, apparently, and talking to police investigators, as well, too, so -- and it was leaked to the media. The media got out (ph) because Illinois State Police investigators have said virtually nothing to the media. So a lot of the stuff has been leaked information. And so according to, you know, what we have heard out there and what has been reported, this family member claims that he helped Drew Peterson remove a blue barrel and he believed that Stacy Peterson was inside this blue barrel because it was warm to the touch when he removed it.

GRACE: Removed the blue barrel from where to where?

BRAGIEL: From inside of the house into one of the cars.

GRACE: I want to go back to Dr. Howard Oliver, former deputy medical examiner. Dr. Oliver, how long will it take to make a DNA comparison between these remains and DNA known to be that of Stacy Peterson or her children?

OLIVER: It should only take a few days, less than a week, to make the determination.

GRACE: Do you go with a child or do you go with a parent when you don`t have the victim`s body? You don`t have a known DNA sample from Stacy Peterson, what do you do?

OLIVER: I would go with both and compare the two.

GRACE: I was thinking mitochondrial DNA from the mother. Doctor?

OLIVER: Oh, her mother?


OLIVER: Yes. You would use it -- well, actually, I would use both the DNA from the mother and from her children, and you would get a better comparison that way.

GRACE: Doctor, another issue. Regarding getting DNA, I mean, we`ve got this body frozen into the ground, everyone, is the latest report out of Chicago. If this is Stacy Peterson, you`ve got to have a known sample to compare the body to in order to positively identify her through DNA, deoxyribonucleic acid. Dr. Oliver, can that come from, for instance, hair out of her brush?

OLIVER: Yes, it can. If the follicles have roots, the hair roots, then you could compare the two. You would have her DNA, at that point.

GRACE: Back to the lines. Ruth in Ohio. Hi, Ruth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Love you and love your (INAUDIBLE) .

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And my question is, what did you think about Drew Peterson`s interview today?

GRACE: You know, Ruth -- are you talking about the one he walked off of with Shep over at Fox? I think I`ve got Ruth. I assume that`s the one she`s talking about. A lot has been made about a so-called dating game. And we have considered covering it here on the show, but I found it to be in such poor taste, while the body of Stacy Peterson still has not been found, that we have not covered it. But now that it has been brought up, back to Mary Frances Bragiel with WBBM radio. Explain.

BRAGIEL: Explain what, about the dating game or...

GRACE: Yes. Yes.

BRAGIEL: Well, essentially, there`s a talk show host out here, Steve Dahl, been out here for years, is well known. And apparently, for the last couple of months since Stacy went missing, he has been talking about this case. So Drew and his attorney, Joel Brodsky, thought it would be funny to go on the air and talk with them, and Joel Brodsky, his attorney, suggested have a "date with Drew" type contest.

And so everyone agreed it would be great and this radio talk show host thought it would be wonderful. And then all of a sudden, it was pulled at the last minute. And Drew said to me by phone, when I asked him about it, he believes the radio talk show host panicked and he folded. And I said, Don`t you think it`s in poor taste? And he believed that this radio talk show host has, you know, been in poor taste for the last couple of months, with these songs about Drew Peterson and talking about his fourth wife is missing and his third wife, who turned up dead.

So at this point -- and you know, his attorney said that, essentially, it was all a joke. It was just all a joke initially because if you know the radio talk show host, you know that he jokes around. That`s all it was. It was basically to diffuse the situation, according to Joel Brodsky.

GRACE: Speaking of, let`s go to the source. Joining us tonight, Drew Peterson`s attorney, a veteran trial lawyer in that area. Joel Brodsky is with us. Joel, welcome.

JOEL BRODSKY, DREW PETERSON`S ATTORNEY: Thank you. How are you doing?

GRACE: Well, I`m very disturbed about the discovery of human remains near a blue barrel which is eerily similar to the story told about your client, Drew Peterson. What have police told you?

BRODSKY: I think they`re already saying that it`s -- they`ve already -- it`s a Chicago Police Department area, I think the area 5 out west, that are doing it. And my understanding is that they`ve already told the -- asked the state police task force -- the Drew Peterson -- the Person -- Stacy Peterson, Savio task force -- not to -- not to get involved, it`s not Stacy.

GRACE: How do they know that?


BRODSKY: ... we all -- I mean, I can tell you, it`s not Stacy. I guarantee you that.

GRACE: How do you know that? Why? Do you know where she is?

BRODSKY: Because Stacy -- well, I mean, Stacy ran away with another man. That`s -- that`s...

GRACE: Right.

BRODSKY: ... the case. You`re not going to be another -- they`re not going to find the blue barrel. They`re not going to find Stacy`s body parts in a blue barrel, just -- you know, the whole blue barrel thing, that was the initial -- when that whole case started, I think it was Stacy`s sister who said that there was some blue barrel, 55-gallon drum of chlorine in Drew`s garage that was missing. And you know, that`s been -- you know, that`s -- that`s just simply not the case.

GRACE: Mr. Brodsky...

BRODSKY: There never was anything...

GRACE: Mr. Brodsky...

BRODSKY: ... like that so...

GRACE: ... if you`re so convinced that she`s still alive, why hasn`t your client filed for child support?

BRODSKY: Well, where is he going to get child support from? I mean...

GRACE: So he hasn`t filed for child support, has he.

BRODSKY: No. I mean, who would he file for child support from? I mean, who would pay it? The state having Drew`s -- you know...


GRACE: Well, you said she`s alive.

BRODSKY: ... from the state.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police barricades are in place outside a New York funeral home for today`s private viewing of the body of actor Heath Ledger. Details about the funeral are not being released. An Australian newspaper speculates he may be buried in his home town, Perth. Ledger`s family is making arrangements to claim the body of the 28-year-old star. Toxicology tests are being done to determine exactly what caused his death.


GRACE: What`s the hold-up in the toxicology tests? Was there a clean-up in that Soho apartment before police arrived? Why were four calls made not to police but to Mary-Kate Olsen, a friend of Heath Ledger`s?

Out to Kelli Zink, host with What can you tell us regarding the time lapse between the calls, police arriving? Was there any suggestion of a clean-up within that Soho apartment?

KELLI ZINK, CELEBTV.COM: Good evening, Nancy. You know, I don`t know if there`s suggestion of a clean-up, but I do know that within a span of about nine minutes, the masseuse, Diana Wolozin, did call Mary-Kate Olsen three times. Then she called 911, then once again called Mary-Kate. And the reason she called Mary-Kate is because they shared the same masseuse and Mary-Kate was on her speed dial.

GRACE: Out to Howard Oliver former deputy medical examiner and forensic pathologist. Why so long with the toxicology results?

OLIVER: With toxicology analysis, you test with one instrumentation, and then you verify it with a different instrumentation that may be more sensitive.

GRACE: I see. So that could be the delay. David Katz, former federal agent and security analyst -- not interviewing Mary-Kate Olsen. Why?

DAVID KATZ, FORMER FEDERAL AGENT, SECURITY ANALYST: Well, you`d only interview somebody when you think it`s going to further the investigation. I don`t know what the police are suspecting at this point. It seems to be a tragic accident, from all indications, and they may feel there`s no need. In fact, they`ve said there`s nothing to be gained by interviewing Mary- Kate.


GRACE: Questions still lingering around the death of Hollywood superstar 28-year-old Heath Ledger. You know, back to you, David Katz. It just seems to me that police would want to know what directions Mary-Kate Olsen was giving back in New York upon the discovery of Ledger`s body.

KATZ: Well, I don`t know. I don`t think there was any indication that she was giving any directions. You know, the fact that she was called, that could just simply be a case of two people walking into a room, seeing an unresponsive individual, and not doing as most people would do, dialing 911, but rather panicking and making what would in retrospect is not a very smart decision. But I`m sure -- there`s no doubt in my mind the police department has asked both individuals why they called Ms. Olsen and not 911.

GRACE: You know, I`m a firm believer in leaving no stone unturned, so I would make that investigation -- make that investigation and ask those questions of Mary-Kate Olsen.

Out to the lines. Rossi in Illinois. Hi, Rossi.


GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am licensed massage therapist, and I cannot fathom going to a client`s house and not having them respond and calling somebody from their cell phone that`s not somebody who can come and help immediately, like 911.

GRACE: Are you licensed and schooled in CPR, Rossi?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I am. In the state of Illinois, you have to have at least 500 hours of training. Plus, you have to keep up your first aid and your CPR.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Mexican authorities only request one form of identification. That does not necessarily have to be a passport as long as they have some sort of I.D. And as you well know, it`s not that difficult to get false identifications in the United States.

The other thing is that many of these -- once they across the border, they usually travel for about 20 miles or so before they come to the actual checkpoint where papers are checked. But not all vehicles are always checked. It`s usually just a random thing. So it`s quite possible that if, in fact, Laurean did -- was on one of those buses, and that`s what everybody seems to think now, it is quite possible his I.D. wasn`t even checked.


GRACE: Translation, Cesar Laurean probably in Mexico and probably even took a military discount on Tornado bus lines crossing the border.

Let`s go straight out to Susan Candiotti standing by, CNN national correspondent.

Susan, a lot of developments in the case of Maria Lauterbach. First of all, have any of the papers been signed in Mexico and arrest warrant for Cesar Laurean?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Nancy, not as far as we know. Remember, they had to get all those paperwork put together in the United States and sent it a circuitous route, wound up in Mexico. The prosecutor, the district attorney, remember, has told us that all he is hearing is soon. To say that authorities, the FBI, the U.S. Marshals are frustrated about this is to put it mildly.

But this is the way they`re used to working. When they go overseas, when they are working overseas, they cannot begin an investigation on their own. They have to wait for approval by the foreign government. So in this case, it`s Mexico and we still don`t have a signoff from Mexico yet.

GRACE: To Harris Whitbeck, CNN Mexico City bureau chief, what do we have to do? Storm the embassy in order to get a judge to pick up a pen and write his or her name on an arrest warrant? I mean, what do we have to do to get Mexico to lift one finger to bring this guy home?

HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN MEXICO CITY BUREAU CHIEF: Well, Nancy, what we know, and this comes from the attorney general`s office in Guadalajara, we do -- you might remember yesterday we told you that local press contacts had told us that the authorities in Guadalajara had received a request for cooperation, not an arrest warrant, but a request for cooperation. That was confirmed to us this afternoon by the attorney general`s office in Guadalajara.

Again, what does that mean? It does not necessarily mean that a proactive manhunt will ensue. It simply means that if the authorities happen to come across this guy, they`re asked to detain him and they let the U.S. authorities know.

GRACE: Out to Lori Mack, North Carolina correspondent with Westwood One Metro Networks. More disturbing news on the case. We learned that Maria Lauterbach`s neck was slit post mortem, after death. Why?

LORI MACK, N.C. CORRESPONDENT, WESTWOOD ONE METRO NETWORKS: That`s right, Nancy. Well, according to the "Jacksonville Daily News," they say a reliable source told them that Maria Lauterbach`s neck was cut after she died. And what they say was an attempt to cover up, to make what Cesar Laurean`s story, to make it match basically is why her neck was reportedly, allegedly cut after she died.

GRACE: Refresher, remember, Laurean writes a note to his wife and says that Maria Lauterbach committed suicide there in his home by slitting her own throat. The reality is the military conducted an unprecedented second autopsy on Maria Lauterbach to reconstruction her skull. Why? The cause of death was blunt force trauma to the skull. Not by throat slitting. Absolutely not.

So Lori Mack, you may be on to something.

To Susan Candiotti, more developments, I believe you may be the one that noticed or discovered, found out that the cinder blocks paced so carefully around that barbecue pit, under which the body was buried were not burned in any way. Explain.

CANDIOTTI: That`s right. Well, in talking with police today, I discovered that those cement blocks which do appear to be very pristine in that photograph that we saw before they unearthed Maria Lauterbach`s body, they looked pretty clean. And in fact, police confirmed to me this day that there is no appearance of burn marks on them.

Remember, that they had barbecues on that very spot where Maria Lauterbach was buried apparently after she was buried there. It`s too horrifying to even think about. So what this indicates is that fresh cement blocks must have been put in place after that. And in fact, police have told me that those cement blocks do appear to match the ones that were purchased by Laurean on that surveillance tape that we have seen.

GRACE: To Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist, why would he do that? To barricade people from looking there?

PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, he might want to, as his story unfolds in his own mind, trying to convince other people that, hey maybe this should be a little barbecue pit because I already had a barbecue roast over her slaughtered body. So he might try to elaborate his own tale.

GRACE: To make it look more like a barbecue pit.


GRACE: Right. To explain why he`s having a three-day burn in the backyard. This was Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, and I believe on New Year`s. Burning in the backyard. So that would add some credibility and make it look like he actually was having a barbecue.

SAUNDERS: Exactly.

GRACE: Good point.

Out to the lines, Robin in California. Hi, Robin.

ROBIN, FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Nancy. Love your show.

GRACE: Thank you.

ROBIN: I really missed you while you were gone, dear.

GRACE: I missed you guys, too.

ROBIN: I have a little problem with the timeline. If she was killed on the 14th, or as people believe that she was killed on the 14th, and he didn`t go to Lowe`s until two days later, on the 16th, so where was the body for the two days? I mean could -- is it possible that he could have stored her body in the house without his wife smelling anything or knowing anything for two days?

GRACE: I think she just seemed to have turned a blind eye, Robin in California, because remember, she apparently helped him paint on the inside, told him, yes. We`re starting here then we`re going to paint the garage where the rest of the blood is.

To Lori Mack, North Carolina correspondent with Westwood One. Lori, any possibility the body was moved to the backyard?

MACK: We don`t know, Nancy. And it`s still unclear. One thing that the district attorney did emphasize in his press conference yesterday was that they are not able to release a lot of the evidence that they have because Cesar Laurean has not been taken into custody. So everything is up in the air, including why they think she was killed on the 14th versus the 15th as Cesar Laurean`s letter said to his wife.

So a lot of stuff is still unclear because Cesar Laurean has not been taken into custody.

GRACE: With us a military legal analyst Omar Ashmawy.

Omar, welcome back. What can the military or law enforcement do to actively pursue Cesar Laurean?

OMAR ASHMAWY, MILITARY LEGAL ANALYST: Well, they`re doing what they`re doing right now which is they`re going after him in Mexico. The military really isn`t in the business of extradition. I mean as bad as this guy is, and I mean it makes pretty clear that he murdered her, they`re not inclined to invade Mexico to get him back as much as we might all want to see that.

GRACE: So we can let Dog the Bounty Hunter go do out dirty work for us, right?

ASHMAWY: Dog is probably better to do it than a corps of Marines because if they do that, Mexico is not going to be too happy and we don`t really want an international incident.

GRACE: Yes. But what is Mexico doing? Nothing. Nada. Nothing to bring this guy home.

In fact, to the lawyers, Ann Bremner, Alex Sanchez, Alex Sanchez, he is a Mexican citizen. He`s a naturalized U.S. citizen. Does that mean it will be easier for him to fight extradition back home to the U.S.?

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No. He has the same rights as anybody else to fight extradition. As a matter of fact, one of the reasons that he is going to fight extradition is that he`s possibly facing the death penalty in the United States and Mexico doesn`t have the death penalty. So even if.

GRACE: Well, they won`t send him home unless the DA weighs the death penalty.

SANCHEZ: That`s right. And DA is in a very awkward position because this guy, if he did what he`s charged with doing, you know, he may be entitled to get the death penalty. So, you know, Mexico has United States over a barrel here.

GRACE: Ann Bremner, agree or disagree, Ann, if he is hopping countries to Guatemala, I believe which is the next country down, they have the death penalty. How would that affect him heading that way even further south?

ANN BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He could stay where he is, Nancy, because I do agree that if he`s extradited from Mexico, the U.S. will have to take the death penalty off the table and then off he goes in a series of countries that have the death penalty. So he`s go to be very smart.

GRACE: Well.

BREMNER: .about where he goes next. And the other thing is, you know, in the United States, there could be a bounty hunter or a kidnapper that could get him and bring him back because they`re receiving.

GRACE: Pull him over the border.

BREMNER: Yes, but the requesting court generally doesn`t look at how the person, the body, came to him, i.e. coming into the U.S. We don`t look at how it got here.

GRACE: Well, I took a look at some research of the countries just below Mexico. Guatemala allows the DP, El Salvador allows it, Belize allows it, Honduras no Democratic Party, Nicaragua no DP, Costa Rica no DP, Panama no DP. So that`s something. I don`t know if he`s done his research.

Very quickly, to Debbie in Florida. I`ve got 20 seconds, Debbie.

DEBBIE, FROM FLORIDA: Yes, I was just wondering if since the -- he had her bank card, could he have had her I.D. also and maybe his wife might have helped him buy the bus ticket.

GRACE: Well, right now, we don`t know. We know that she is allegedly cooperating but they seem to be handling her with kid gloves.

When we come back, switching gears. Where is young mom of two Lisa Hatchell?




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s the mother of two, a military veteran who loves her family. But Lisa Hatchell has literally vanished without a trace. Lisa allegedly last seen by neighbors arguing in the street with her boyfriend. What worries her mom most, Lisa always calls home on her birthday. The date of Lisa`s last known whereabouts? Her birthday.

ALONIE WALTON, MOTHER OF MISSING WOMAN LISA HATCHELL: Lisa didn`t have no enemy. Lisa was a friend to everybody and everybody that don`t know Lisa loved Lisa like we loved Lisa. You know? She just was a friendly, outgoing person. And she didn`t bother nobody. You know, and that`s why I know if anything happened to her, it had to be Tyrone because nobody else had any, no reason to want to hurt her.


GRACE: Why hasn`t the case been solved? Very few people know the name of this victim. Lisa Hatchell. She is 5`3", 135 pounds, black hair, brown eyes, a small scar under the neck. Two children including an 11-year-old little girl. Left behind.

Where is she? Can you help us? The tip line, 215-546-TIPS, T-I-P-S.

Out to Larry Miller with the "Philadelphia Tribune."

Larry, what happened?

LARRY MILLER, REPORTER, THE PHILADELPHIA TRIBUNE: Well, this is an interesting case. It came to my attention in 2006 when the mother got in touch with us through the "Philadelphia Tribune."

From what we understand, at around 10:00 p.m. on July 19th of 2003, in the 5400 Block of Warrington Street, Warrington Avenue, I`m sorry, Lisa was engaged in an argument with her boyfriend by the name of Tyrone Henderson. And that was the last time anybody saw Lisa.

GRACE: What was the fight about, Larry?

MILLER: We don`t really know at this point. From what I understand, there may have been some indication that they were fighting about having her hair done, her nails and apparently, he didn`t have enough money to help her do that. So they were arguing, I guess, about money.

GRACE: Who observed the fight?

MILLER: I`m sorry?

GRACE: Who observed the fight?

MILLER: Neighbors.

GRACE: So there were plenty of witnesses placing her there, correct?

MILLER: That`s right.

GRACE: That was near her home?

MILLER: That was outside the residence that they had in the 5400 Block of Warrington Avenue.


Joining me right now is a special guest, Alonie Walton. This is Lisa`s mother.

Miss Walton, thank you for being with us.

Thank you for having me.

GRACE: How long has she been gone now?

WALTON: Five years, July the 19th.

GRACE: No word from her whatsoever, correct?

WALTON: No word at all.

GRACE: Have you -- do you know of any activity in a bank account, an ATM, a credit card, a gas card, anything?

WALTON: No. I have called Social Security and they have no activity on her. So there is nothing, you know, not anything. Any word. Nothing at all about her.

GRACE: How are her children?

WALTON: They are fine. They`re here with me. Her baby daughter, she is 11. She asks about her every now and then. But her son, every time he passes her picture, he goes out 10 times a day. He takes this thing and kisses thing and people don`t know (INAUDIBLE). Girl, where are you, you know. So.

GRACE: Miss Walton, she was last seen in an argument with her boyfriend. What became of him?

WALTON: Well, I told her the -- I told the police department about him. That took me a year and a half to get them to take the report at first. Then they brought him in for a half an hour of questioning and he told -- I talked to the detective after that. And after he told her it wasn`t the truth, and I told her that.

Then they brought him in for a polygraph like three months later. That came back inconclusive. So they haven`t been in touch with Tyrone since. I don`t think they even know where he is at the present time.

GRACE: So they`ve basically lost track of him.

WALTON: Right. I know he moved out of the house.

GRACE: He moved out of what house?

WALTON: When they were living at 5410 Warrington Avenue.

GRACE: Does his family still live in the area?

WALTON: No. His mother had moves to Fayetteville, North Carolina. And him and Lisa were living in the house.

GRACE: Question, Miss Walton, what do you bereave happened that night?

WALTON: I think he did something to her and I think he panicked and did something with the body. And you know -- and now after -- you know, they didn`t go out and do a crime scene investigation.

GRACE: They what? They did not do what?

WALTON: They didn`t go out and do no crime scene investigation. They never went out to the house. They`ve never even been inside the house.

GRACE: Larry Miller, that is shocking. Did the police never went to the home to do a crime scene investigation?

MILLER: Well, not to my knowledge. However, we have to understand that there are certain constraints involved in any case like this. You have to have evidence that there has been a crime in order to obtain a warrant to go into a residence to do any kind of a search.

At that stage, maybe they didn`t have enough evidence to do that. At this point.

GRACE: It doesn`t catch. That happens all the time when there is not a body. We`ve got the same thing in the Drew Peterson case. They did a search in his home and there is no Stacy Peterson body.

MILLER: Well, it`s a little different. You have to at least establish that there was a crime. We don`t know when.

GRACE: We don`t know there was a crime in Stacy Peterson.

MILLER: You know, I forget the exact -- first of all, he -- I believe there were some distinctions. I don`t know when Miss Hatchell was reported missing. But if it`s remote in time and there is no indication that anything happened at the house. That`s probably why they`re not able to get a warrant. But I think there is a lot -- what they should have done, they should have started really intensely questioning the boyfriend, all of the neighbors.

Because after the argument, what happened? They obviously heard that part. What was the disposition afterward? That`s the part that`s very unclear.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers.

Ann Bremner, Alex Sanchez, that`s all BS. All right? If you compare this to any other cases that we have covered, take a look at it. A lot of these cases we don`t have bodies. But search warrants are used. Crime -- possible crime scenes are investigated. But not here.

SANCHEZ: Yes, and there`s also one other thing they could have done. The police simply could have gone to this fellow`s house, knock on the door and said, "Do you mind if we come in and look around," without even going for a search warrant.

But let`s say he said no. They could have continued the investigation and at some point, they could have gone to a judge and say, we believe a crime was committed. He has not cooperated with us. She is missing. There was an argument. Please grant us a search warrant.

GRACE: Agree, Ann Bremner?

BREMNER: I absolutely agree, Nancy. You`re doing a fabulous thing tonight by getting this out over the air. And maybe someone that knows something.

GRACE: There is no reason that they could not have gone and at least knocked on the door, Ann.

BREMNER: I agree, Nancy. And the fact is, is that you`re doing that now. I mean at least now, at least this is getting exposure, and the family is getting attention to this case that`s deserved.


GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories and more important the people who touched our lives.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Actor heath ledger has died.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 3:30 that paramedics arrived. His housekeeper tried to wake him up. They did find what appeared to be sleeping pills.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The initial autopsy came back inconclusive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The fact that a friend was called before 911 was called, that`s suspicious to me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s relax here. She called Mary-Kate Olsen. And what she said was, "He`s unconscious. What should I do?"

GRACE: He`s dead. Let`s go relax. If he`s life could have been saved, then I find that to be a very vital fact.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brianna had returned home at about 4:00 a.m., went to bed and that was the last time she was seen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When the girls woke up and went to look for Brianna, and they didn`t see her on the couch, they did find three blood stains which have been described as the size of silver dollars.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just to the left on your screen is supposedly, Cesar Laurean according to authorities, coming there to buy supplies, such as paint and concrete blocks and a wheelbarrow.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The cousin of Cesar Laurean said he saw the suspected killer in Mexico recently. Laurean visited him at his liquor store near Guadalajara a week ago.

GRACE: The guy goes over 1,000 miles from North Carolina to Mexico. Nobody catches him. What kind of justice she should get? What are we doing to find the alleged perpetrator of this crime? What is her life worth to us? That`s what I want to know tonight.


GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Second Lieutenant Tracy Alger, 30 near Auburn, Wisconsin, killed in Iraq. A graphic design artist and nursing assistant, she put work on hold to enlist. Loved rodeo barrel racing and horses, priced horse Tango. Leaves behind grieving mom, Pauline, sister Tonya who served in the Air Force.

Tracy Alger, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but most of all, to you for inviting us into your home. And a special goodnight tonight from the New York control room. Good night, Brit, Rosie.

Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friends.