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Nancy Grace

Joran Blames Marijuana for Hidden Camera Statements

Aired February 08, 2008 - 20:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. It was the case that couldn`t be cracked for three long years. Aruban police claimed they couldn`t make a case against a former judge`s son, Joran Van Der Sloot. But tonight: A reporter does what the entire Aruban government couldn`t or wouldn`t do, crack the case of 18-year-old Alabama girl Natalee Holloway, missing from a high school senior trip to Aruba 2005. Well, months of high-tech secret surveillance solves the mystery and proves what happened the night Holloway disappeared. After a stunning confession caught on video, as we go to air, investigators grilling former judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot, last seen with Natalee Holloway.
Tonight, bombshell. Van Der Sloot`s defense -- are you sitting down? -- just hours ago, he announces he was high on pot during his stunning confession caught on video. Was Holloway thrown into choppy ocean waters late that night still alive? And why did an Aruban judge refuse to sign an arrest warrant?

Tonight Natalee Holloway`s mother, Beth Holloway, with us live. And tonight, more of that secretly videotaped confession from suspect Joran Van Der Sloot, who literally talks for days.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An Aruban court should decide this weekend whether to re-arrest Joran Van Der Sloot, the former suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joran Van Der Sloot grilled over the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, investigators demanding for a second day that he explain those hidden camera recordings. On the video, he details his night with Holloway in Aruba and how helped get rid of the body. But he insists it was all a lie and he had nothing to do with her disappearance. Joran Van Der Sloot remains free and claims he was high on marijuana when making that apparent video confession.


GRACE: And tonight: Instead of a brand-new toy for her 11th birthday, an Indiana mom gives her little girl pot and booze at the little girl`s own birthday party, then passes it all on to the little girl`s friends. Thanks, Mom.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anderson police officers say 26-year-old Davita Fuller turned her 11-year-old daughter`s birthday party into a marijuana and beer fest. The birthday party took place here at Fuller`s house on West 9th Street. The guests included Fuller and two of her friends, her daughter and three of her school friends.

Officers say Fuller and her friends were smoking a joint and drinking beer when Fuller decided to let her 11-year-old daughter take a hit of the marijuana and drink. The police report says Fuller then offered her daughter`s friends the drug and alcohol, telling them not to say anything or she would get in trouble.


GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, Natalee Holloway`s mother, Beth Holloway, is with us. And in his attempt to explain away his secretly taped confession, prime suspect Joran Van Der Sloot says he was high on pot. Van Der Sloot just released from hours of questioning by Dutch police.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Natalee Holloway`s father is giving his thoughts on whether Joran Van Der Sloot should be re-arrested. He`s not expecting Van Der Sloot to have a change of heart.

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE`S FATHER: I`d be surprised if he told the truth this time. I think his pattern is the same pattern, try and lie and get his way out of it. He`s tried to avoid this justice system for a long time, and you know, I`m afraid it`s going come back and haunt him some day. I just hope that he comes clean. He`s got an account to settle, and I hope he settles it on this earth this time. If he doesn`t, you know, God bless him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The one-time suspect in Holloway`s death faced new questions from police after being caught on hidden tape apparently confessing about her death.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joran Van Der Sloot remains free and claims he was high on marijuana when making that apparent video confession.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Van Der Sloot told a man he considered to be his friend that he was with Natalee Holloway on a beach when she died and that he arranged for a friend to take her body to sea and dump it. The Dutch teen has since said he was lying on the tape.


GRACE: When to believe Joran Van Der Sloot? Well, that`s a tough question. Van Der Sloot just out of tough hours of grilling by Dutch police. Did they get anywhere? So far, Van Der Sloot has managed to evade them, looked them straight in the face and apparently lie.

Let`s go out to CNN senior producer Tracy Sabo joining us. Tracy, what happened today?

TRACY SABO, CNN PRODUCER: Well, we`re told that Joran was questioned in Rotterdam by at least three Aruban police investigators who flew to Holland, as well as members of the Netherlands national police force. We`re told it lasted about two hours only, and Van Der Sloot`s lawyer was present. And what I`ve been able to learn from that interrogation so far is that, first and foremost, Joran Van Der Sloot continues to deny to investigators that he had any involvement whatsoever in Natalee`s disappearance. And he is deferring to his earlier statements that he left Natalee alone on the beach that night and that the last he saw her, she was alive.

And he went on further, as you mentioned, saying that during these conversations in the car with this undercover investigator, he was under the influence of marijuana, which may have led to these statements, and clearly says that there was smoke that could be seen in the car. So that is the latest story and what we`re hearing from what came of the interrogations today in Holland.

GRACE: Back to Tracy Sabo, CNN senior producer. abut Tracy, that doesn`t even make any sense because what we saw on video -- and we`re about to show you more of that secretly video audio tape of Joran Van Der Sloot confessing to being with Natalee the night she died -- this wasn`t all in one night, everybody. This was taken over months and months, weeks of driving around, yes, smoking pot. And he stuck with the same story for weeks on end. He mentioned being there on the beach when Natalee went into convulsions 10 separate times, Tracy Sabo. It`s not as if he got high and drunk on one occasion and came up with a fabrication. This was something, a story he maintained over months.

SABO: That`s true. That`s what we`ve been told. And another interesting thing to point out is when these videotapes first surfaced, it was clearly a surprise to Joran Van Der Sloot, and his first defense was to call in to a local Dutch television broadcast. And he said publicly on the air that he was lying, he made this up because he knew that this Dutch crime reporter wanted something, and so he made up some lies to give him something to investigate. But clearly today, we`re hearing a different story. He`s now saying that in some capacity, didn`t know of what he was speaking, and that he was under the influence at the time.

GRACE: Out to Art Harris, investigative reporter, who`s been investigating the case. Art, how long was he under questioning today? And do you believe that the Dutch authorities got anywhere with him?

ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, Nancy, it was about a two- hour investigation. And the good news is that you have the Dutch national police involved with the Aruban police -- great oversight. They`re like the Dutch FBI, excellent investigators.

And you know, something -- the pressure is on. They searched a couple of locations, took hard drives from one computer, at least. And so they`re serious. They`re pressing the ground here.

GRACE: They`re serious. You said they`re serious. They`re serious three years later and they search his grandmother`s house? For all I know, he bought an iPod and an Apple notebook one year ago, and they`re just seizing it? That`s serious to you, Art Harris?

HARRIS: They appear to be serious, Nancy. I have a lot more confidence in the Dutch national police, though, than we`ve seen from the Aruban police.

GRACE: Well, I`ve got a lot more confidence in the reporter that hooked up with Van Der Eem and got this secretly recorded tape. Before we go to Natalee`s mother, who`s with me here in the studio, take a listen to what Joran Van Der Sloot said when police weren`t listening.


JORAN VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): And she just came down from on top of the bar. She just came up to me.

PATRICK VAN DER EEM (through translator): Who?

VAN DER SLOOT: Natalee. Come take a jelly shot off me. So the whore jumped on the bar, and she wanted me to take a jelly shot out of her navel. I did it. Then she says, So now you have to buy me a drink. So I said, What do you want? She says, What`s good? I say, A shot of Bacardi 151. She says, OK, that`s fine.

So she takes a shot of Bacardi 151. She takes it, and right away she goes, Whoo, bam -- 151 proof, you know, 151 proof, that is. That`s 75 percent alcohol. So she asks for a chaser. She`s drunk, really drunk. What I was thinking, I`ll just take the girl with me. We`ll go (DELETED). So I say, What do you want to do?? You want to go to your hotel? I`ll just go with her to her hotel. That`s the best thing to do. She says, No, no, no, I don`t want to go to my own hotel.

VAN DER EEM: She`s just lying still?

VAN DER SLOOT: Still, still. She`s not doing anything.

He says, What happened? I said, I don`t know either, man.

VAN DER EEM: Did you try to resuscitate her?

VAN DER SLOOT: Of course! I tried everything, man. I tried to shake her. I was shaking the (DELETED). I was, like, What`s wrong with you, man? I almost wanted to cry. What (DELETED) happening?

I said to him, This is impossible. He took the boat. He went far out, and he threw her over the side. Then he came back and he docked his boat there. And he came by my house for a bit.

VAN DER EEM: At night?

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes. Then we talked for a bit, and he says to me, You know, it`s all good. She`s going to be missing, they`re going to search, but they`re not going to know a thing.


GRACE: It`s all good. It`s all good. That`s what Van Der Sloot has to say. That`s video from ABC`s "20/20" of Van Der Sloot, emotionless, and he is describing what happened the night Natalee went missing.

With me here on the set is a lady that has been an inspiration to thousands of people. Not only has she never given up in the search for justice for her daughter, Natalee Holloway, but she is now a child`s victims` rights advocate. With me tonight, Beth Holloway. This is Natalee`s mother. We are taking your calls live. Beth, thank you for being with us.


GRACE: Do you ever just get completely worn out with talking about this? Does it rake up the coals every time you talk about it?

HOLLOWAY: Oh, I`ll be honest, Nancy. There was a time when, yes, it just -- I felt like, How can I continue to do this? And where am I going and what am I getting? I just felt like I wasn`t getting anywhere. But you know what? All that steady, constant, every day steps that we took, each one was well worth it because look where we are today. I never thought I`d see this time come to where you and I would be sitting here with such absolutely amazing revelations and information, you know, coming from Joran himself.

GRACE: When De Vries told you he had new evidence, did he tell you what it was, or did he just fly you over there and you saw it for the first time? Because I saw the video of you seeing it for the first time.


GRACE: And you were so composed. I believe that you had to know something because you were so composed as you were watching.

HOLLOWAY: Well, what he did was, he kind of -- it was great how he presented this. I mean, he first just contacted me initially and just asked me to come. You know, no questions asked. I just said, When do you want me there? And the next thing he did, which really was great, is he sat me down and explained to me about what I was going to see. He didn`t just hit me with it. He really did it an utmost professional manner possible. And I just think he just respected, you know, me as an individual and what I was about to hear.

So he did a step-by-step process, and then we went in to the actual viewing of the video. So I knew what I was going to see. He prepared me well for what I was about to see. But of course, you still can`t get the full scope of it because now I was able to see it and hear it.

GRACE: Exactly.

HOLLOWAY: But he was very considerate in how he presented it.

HOLLOWAY: I just want to ask you -- you know more than anybody, and I recall you and I talking, oh, gosh, now over a year ago, and you know so much more than the rest of us know about the investigation. What are the inconsistencies that you have seen in his various stories? I mean, I know he started off by telling you, I dropped her off at the Holiday Inn. Then he told somebody else he had sex with her on the beach. Then he just said, We caressed and she had convulsions and that she just died. There are so many inconsistencies.

HOLLOWAY: There are, but now that we`ve been able to hear these stunning admissions from Joran, we`ve been able to go back now and we can corroborate with some of the things that he`s admitting to Patrick, the informant in the car. We can bring it full circle and we can go back to the very beginning because it`s absolutely amazing some of the things that Joran is saying and admitting, even the condition that Natalee was in as he`s watching her suffer.

I mean, it`s stunning that 48 hours into Natalee`s disappearance, I was asked by an Aruban detective if Natalee has a history of seizures or epilepsy. And when -- and when I`m hearing Joran say that it looked like Natalee was having a seizure, and then he even -- what makes me sick and I want to come through the screen and kill him, when he imitates her, he imitates her as she`s suffering. And that`s in a video clip with Patrick.

GRACE: I didn`t see that.

HOLLOWAY: Yes, there`s one (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: I watched the whole "20/20" -- oh, I`m sorry, was it on the Dutch version?

HOLLOWAY: Yes, I`m sorry.

GRACE: You mean he mocked her, he imitated her having seizures?

HOLLOWAY: Yes. Yes. So he not only verbalizes it, he imitates it visually. So yes, there was -- yes, there were some clips that I saw in the Netherlands perhaps that may not have been on "20/20." There was a lot.

GRACE: Yes, I mean, they drove around for days and days and days.


GRACE: And what we saw were portions of all these days put together when he was talking about Natalee`s death.

HOLLOWAY: Right. And I`m so glad you brought that out when you began your show, is that this was not one incident where Joran gave this admission to Patrick, as you said. This was repeatedly over time, these same specific details. So you reiterated that. You make it clear that this was not just a one-time admission from Joran.

GRACE: A one-time, high-as-a-kite...

HOLLOWAY: Right. No.

GRACE: ... confession. He maintained this over a period of months.

HOLLOWAY: Correct.

GRACE: So what you just pointed out is very important. At the very, very beginning, police asked you, Does Natalee have a history of epilepsy or seizures?


GRACE: And you didn`t know why they were asking. Do you now, in retrospect, believe that Joran Van Der Sloot told police that at the beginning?

HOLLOWAY: Well, you know, when you look at the facts, it`s pretty stunning that -- and when you have an investigator who asks you that question within the first 48 hours, when we go back, there were no other medical questions. I mean, he didn`t say, Does Natalee have diabetes, or Does Natalee have, you know, other medical issues.


HOLLOWAY: That was the only one. And they only asked me once, and I told them no. But they asked Jug, asked him probably about a dozen times, and Jug had to come to me at least half a dozen sometimes, and I`d say, No. Why do they keep asking you that?

GRACE: No, no history. Out to the lines. Keren in Nevada. Hi, Keren.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. You are a gift from God.

GRACE: Thank you. Would you tell the defense bar that, please? Thank you. What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a comment and then a question. I don`t have a camcorder, but I would like to nominate Dave and Beth Holloway for extraordinary parents by proxy from Natalee. And my question is, since the Kalpoe brothers were also last seen with her and they lied initially that they had dropped her off, what do you think their motive was for lying in the beginning, if they had no part in this whatsoever?

GRACE: You know, that`s a really good point, Keren in Nevada, because many people believe that Joran Van Der Sloot`s confession on videotape completely exonerates the Kalpoe brothers. But she`s right, they did lie and say they dropped her off at the Holiday Inn.

HOLLOWAY: Well, several things come to mind when I think about that. And one, we have to go back to -- that Satish Joran were in Carlos and Charlie`s with Natalee, so we know that Joran was -- you know, that these individuals were in charge of Natalee`s drinks. They bought Natalee`s drinks. They paid for Natalee`s drinks. So we can`t help but wonder if the drug, the GHB, perhaps was given to her by one of them at that moment.

And secondly, Joran during his conversations with Patrick -- I think this kind of sums it up. They -- when Joran got together with Deepak and (INAUDIBLE) reached out to him to help him to establish that Holiday Inn drop-off, he even states that there was one thing that Joran was mad about was he had no idea -- and he used some very explicit terms to describe Natalee, the "F" and "B" word and all that...


GRACE: ... called her a (DELETED) and a whore.

GRACE: But the biggest -- and he also said the biggest problem is he had no idea of the magnitude -- he had no idea that, you know, the "F-ing" mother would never shut up and would never -- would have brought this so global. They had no idea what they were stepping into, Nancy, they were stepping into -- no idea.

GRACE: We`ll be right back, everyone. With us, taking your calls live, Natalee`s mom, Beth Holloway.


DAVE HOLLOWAY: He`s hurt us tremendously, other families tremendously, and some innocent people of Aruba. He has no remorse, no -- a total disregard for anyone else except for himself, even his own family. And it`s just shocking to me that someone can do this. It`s just -- I`m still reeling from it.




DAVE HOLLOWAY: When you go into a panic, which he said he did, the first thing you think of is call an ambulance. And with him choosing the alternative of getting rid of her, something else happened. I believe it was a possible date rape drug he used and a possible rape and murder.


GRACE: With me here on the set tonight, Natalee`s mother, Beth Holloway, is joining us live and she is taking your calls.

I want to go out to Jossy Mansur, managing director of the "Diario" magazine there in Aruba. Jossy, welcome. At this juncture, after the people of Aruba have seen Joran Van Der Sloot`s confession, as far as I see it -- and more, the Dutch version was much more in depth than what we saw here in America -- what is their response?

JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "DIARIO": Well, over here we find that he is guilty. Most of the people we`ve consulted, most of the people that have called us and have a reaction find that he was very articulate, that he didn`t seem to be under any kind of drug influence, that he was talking freely, that he collected his thoughts, so much so that he could describe in detail what happened when he was with Natalee and Natalee died in his arms, and that he called a friend and threw her in the ocean. The people of Aruba now are very, very irritated with this character, so much so that the minister of justice today declared him persona non grata in Aruba.

GRACE: Persona non grata in Aruba. With me, Natalee`s mother, Beth, is with us. Natalee had no history of epilepsy whatsoever, but you mentioned the possibility of GHB, Gamma-Hydroxybutyrate, date rape drug. Why?

HOLLOWAY: Well, I`m not really sure of what all it can cause, but when I think about that, if a young woman has no medical history of any significance, nothing, there is nothing marked in Natalee`s history of any medical issues -- why would she all of a sudden go into convulsions or seizures? And I felt as if it had to have been attributed to a date rape drug.

GRACE: So you actually believe she had convulsions? You actually believe Joran Van Der Sloot on that?

HOLLOWAY: The only reason why, go back to the very beginning, why were we asked that question within 48 hours of her disappearance?


PETER DE VRIES, DUTCH INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Patrick was asking -- was asking him, How can you be so sure that Natalee was dead? And then he said, Well, I wasn`t. She was just not moving anymore. She wasn`t ticking (ph) anymore. And so I thought she must be dead. And then he dumped her into the ocean. And yes, that`s really shocking.


GRACE: Welcome back. With me tonight live, Natalee`s mom, Beth Holloway. We are taking your calls live. Beth, I know the Dutch version of Joran Van Der Sloot`s confession was much more in depth. Is it true -- because I haven`t seen it -- that he said he was afraid for her body to be found because his semen would be on and about her body?

BROOKS: Yes. Yes. He does disclose that to Patrick.

GRACE: You`re positive?


GRACE: When you saw this and you heard him refer to her as a bitch and a whore, what was your response?

HOLLOWAY: God! I mean, Nancy, it`s just -- when I hear Joran talking about her like that -- my gosh, he just -- you know, first you want to come through the TV I want to kill him, I mean, and peel his skin off his face. And I think of the utter disregard he had for Natalee. And look what he`s done to his friends. Look what he`s done to a country. Look what he`s done to everyone.

And when I hear Jossy Mansur speaking, I`m thinking, God, look at the hell he`s dragged us all through. Look at the hell he`s dragged from Jossy through to all of us. I mean, he has just totally, totally dragged us all through hell with him, this Joran Van Der Sloot. It`s just despicable what he has done. It`s a sad form of a human existence, if you ask me, Joran is.



GRACE: Do you really believe a perfectly healthy young girl, Natalee Holloway, with no history of drug use, no history that she had used drugs that night, no history of epilepsy, would go out on a beach and suddenly go into convulsions and die?

PETER R. DE VRIES, DUTCH INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST, RELEASED ALLEGED "CONFESSION" TAPE: I agree with you that it`s very hard to believe. I -- young people just don`t die from drinking too much. So it`s hard to believe. But I don`t have any evidence on anything else. Patrick asked him that. Was there any foam out of the mouth. And he denied it. No, he said, I didn`t see it.


GRACE: Why is Joran Van der Sloot still walking around? That`s what I don`t understand.

With me, Natalee`s mother, Beth Holloway.

Beth, you also were privy to many of the prosecution files. I seem to recall one evening after being with you that you mentioned to me Joran Van der Sloot gave an accurate description of Natalee`s underwear.


GRACE: You`re positive.

HOLLOWAY: Absolutely. Yes.

GRACE: OK. Out to the lawyers, Randi Karmel, Richard Herman, Ann Bremner.

Ann Bremner, you`ve got a guy that says I hope you don`t find her body because my semen will be in, on, and about the body. You`ve got him describing her underwear and he`s accurate according to her mother. This is not just caressing on the beach. Now he says she died of a convulsion and he disposed of her body?

ANN BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, either this is another iteration of statements he`s given before, which there have been scores of different statements, or in terms of the confession and proving this case, remember John Mark Carr. I killed JonBenet, coming home with the shrimp and a champagne. And, in fact, he didn`t. They tried every which way to show that he did it, but in this case, there is corpus delecti, no evidence.

GRACE: But the big difference - Ann, Ann, I appreciate that. Thank you.


GRACE: Randi Karmel, the difference is that Joran Van der Sloot was seen by witnesses with her the last known person to be with her when she was alive. He confesses that he had sex with her. I can`t imagine that that was voluntary. And then disposes of his - of the body. Now, if it had been an innocent death, an accidental death, why not call 911, Randy?

RANDI KARMEL, CHILD ADVOCATE, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: He didn`t do anything right. This guy did everything he could to cover up this crime and he`s lying on top of lying on top of lying. This guy could have called 911. He chose not to.

GRACE: But why, Richard Herman, if you didn`t do anything elicit, why not call the authorities?

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, first, you are a gift to the defense bar as well more than you know.

BREMNER: I was going to say that, too. Right.

HERMAN: And Miss Holloway, my sympathies go out to you. I don`t know how you`ve endured all this time. But you want a conviction here, you want to convict this guy because you think he did it. All the theories we`re talking tonight are all speculation. This tape is garbage. You know if that Aruba judge thought that this tape was viable, they would have arrested him immediately. Is there`s no corroboration.

GRACE: No, I don`t.

HERMAN: to the tape, Nancy.

GRACE: No, I don`t, Richard. They have bungled the case from day one.

HERMAN: They have but the guy.

GRACE: I don`t give them credit to do anything correctly.

HERMAN: I agree with you, but the guy that supposedly took her out on the boat doesn`t exist and he wasn`t in Aruba.

GRACE: You don`t know that.

HERMAN: .the whole year and the pay phone didn`t work. It only made international calls. There`s so many factual inaccuracies to what he says. The tape is not.

GRACE: Two. You just named two. You named two.

HERMAN: The tape is not reliable. It`s all speculation.

GRACE: All right, Richard. OK. Thank you, Richard, Ann and Randi.

Out to the lines, Holly in West Virginia. Hi, Holly.

HOLLY, FROM WEST VIRGINIA: Hi, Nancy. How are you tonight?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. Thank you. What`s your question, dear?

HOLLY: I`m wondering he admits on "20/20" that he used the pay phone at the Marriott. Has anybody checked the history on that payphone to find out if he called his friend or maybe his father?

GRACE: Art, Art Harris, he is clearly covering up for someone that helped him. What about the payphone?

ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Payphone supposedly was checked according to one of his lawyers. The Coast Guard checked it and there was not a record of the call.

GRACE: Why would the Coast Guard be checking a payphone? Why not the local police?

HARRIS: Good question. That`s according to the lawyer.

GRACE: That`s best effort right there.


GRACE: It doesn`t even make any sense.

HARRIS: No. A lot of things don`t check out, Nancy, and there are also witnesses to some of his predatory behavior.

GRACE: You want me to buy into that theory just because the defense lawyer says it`s so, OK. Why the Coast Guard would be dragged in to checking a payphone on Aruban island. That doesn`t even make any sense.

To Damon in California. Hi, Damon.

DAMON, FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Nancy. I love your show.

GRACE: Thank you, dear. What`s your question?

DAMON: My question is if this case goes to court, will his confession be admissible even though he was high?

GRACE: Oh, Damon, you don`t have a big fat dubie on you right now, do you, Damon? Because let me tell you, voluntary intoxication of drugs or alcohol, no defense, and the fact that he was not speaking to police or to investigators, he`s not protected by the constitution either in America or there in Aruba or the Netherlands. It doesn`t protect you from blabbing to journalists or undercover journalists. So it will, repeat, will come into evidence in its entirety.

To John in California. Hi, John.

JOHN, FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Nancy. How you doing?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

JOHN: I`m just wondering what - who`s the friend that he`s talking about that had the boat. I mean did they ever questioned him or did they ever get any information or what`s the deal on that?

GRACE: You`re talking about Daury?

JOHN: Yes.

GRACE: OK. Yes. They have spoken to one Daury. That was a friend of JOran Van der Sloot who was not even on Aruba at the time of Natalee`s appearance. There`s his photo. He`s come forward voluntarily. According to de Vries, Peter de Vries, who masterminded this whole scheme, there is another Daury. However, many people believe that Van der Sloot could be covering up for someone else and we`re very close to him, someone whose name he`ll nevery give up, Beth.

HOLLOWAY: Absolutely. And there are two Daurys that have been discussed and I don`t think that one of them has been ruled out. So -- and that is something else that has been surfacing as to, you know, as Joran gives this statement, he also says this name he will take to his grave. Well, he`s not in his grave, Nancy. So he says he`s going to take it to his grave? Well, I`m not so sure if you`re going to be disclosing a name if you`re going to take it to your grave so.

GRACE: Let`s go out to medical examiner, Doctor Zhongxue Hua.

Dr. Hua, thank you for being with us. If Natalee`s remains were found now, there would be no way to determine the semen, the sperm, that Joran Van der Sloot refers to, would there?



HUA: Because at this stage, if it`s in a high temperature, the body goes through significant degree of decomposition, I would expect if someone`s in the ocean, lots of fresh tissue would be gone.

GRACE: However, if there was a gunshot wound or a knife wound, that may be determined by the skeletal remains?

HUA: Yes, or even have some bone fracture.


HUA: .during the struggle.

GRACE: Let`s go out now to Pat Brown, criminal profiler. Pat, weigh in.

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "KILLING FOR SPORT": I`m in total agreement with you that this convulsion did not happen. I believe that Joran is always making Natalee the bad person. He`s always the victim. My guess is he`s angry at her because he didn`t get the sex he wanted. He forced it on her, he smothered her or he strangled her. He knew he did wrong. He couldn`t make the phone call to daddy and say, hey I need help, this girl`s passed out on the beach. He knew he couldn`t call anybody because he killed her.

And I also would look at the possibility that he`s saying enough, he`s saying what he wants to in the sense of saying that he was with her, had sex, and, yes, something happened to her, but he may be lying about everything else to cover up where she is. I would say if he`s worried about semen, maybe she is buried on land. Hey, I got an e-mail that said she was buried under the gardener`s shack at daddy`s house. I would like to know how the police checked every single thing possible on that land or any place else she could have been buried.

Because if she`s found someplace where Joran or his father had anything to do with, I`d say that would be good information.

GRACE: With me here in the studio, Natalee`s mom, Beth Holloway, who`s become a victim`s rights advocate after the loss of her daughter.

Beth, when you -- we`re all talking about legal theories and evidentiary issues. When you hear that, do you steal yourself to it and not connect it to your girl?

HOLLOWAYL: Well, I think that, you know, when every parent is -- any parent that is faced with - faced with something like this, I think that you have to somehow, gosh, you know, you just -- and I don`t mean to detach, but you do have to kind of have some type of protective barrier there for you because you know you`re there to fight for your child. Yet it`s so hard to be in a fighting mode if you`re succumbing to all the emotions and the, you know, the hurt to it.

So it is a delicate balance of how to - to how to, you know, to keep hopefully moving forward towards justice for your loved one.

GRACE: Do you ever, the way that you feel now, Natalee`s presence with you?

HOLLOWAY: I think what I do, Nancy, is I take comfort in knowing that -- I feel the peace and comfort from Natalee and I`m not sure if it`s - really if I ever thought about it, if it`s her presence. But that I do. I feel - - I`ve always felt, you know, at peace in my heart because I knew that Natalee was with God and I think now after hearing Joran`s full admission, I take - can take even more peace and comfort in knowing that, you know, my prayers were answered and I needed to know what happened.

You know the not knowing is the sheer hell and the knowing, even though it`s difficult, it gives you that ability to have peace and comfort and begin the mourning and this journey.




DE VRIES: I was shocked by the way -- by the disrespect he talked about Natalee. He called her a bitch and things like that..

GRACE: He called her a whore, he called her a bitch for no reason. This girl had a sterling reputation.

DE VRIES: And he`s showing no remorse at all. He`s telling that he didn`t lose one second of sleep.


GRACE: Joran Van der Sloot`s defense? He was high on pot. Do you buy it? I don`t.

Let`s go out to Doctor Susan Lipkins, psychologist and author. Susan, do you buy the theory that someone would confess repeatedly, repeatedly at least 10 times over a period of months just because they were on pot?

SUSAN LIPKINS, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "PREVENTING HAZING": No, absolutely not. We all know that pot does not make you lie like that. And the fact that it`s consistent. So I`m quite sure that what he said was in some part reality and I believe that he is guilty of what he.

GRACE: Susan, what do you make of him saying he hasn`t lost a minute`s sleep over Natalee?

LIPKINS: I`m not sure if he was bragging and trying to be macho in front of this guy who he was trying to show off, or if in fact, he was just a psychopath and totally disconnected from reality and didn`t care.

GRACE: Here on the set with me is Natalee`s mother Beth. When you look back over nearly three years, what is your --- when you think about it at night before you go to sleep, what do you make of this three-year journey, this battle you`ve been through?

HOLLOWAY: I would have to say if I knew the day that I got that call that Natalee was not gathering in the Holiday Inn lobby to depart for the airport, if I had known what was ahead of me, Nancy, God, I don`t know if I could have - I don`t know if I could have fought as hard. Had no idea.

You know, Nancy, I just thought I was going to fly to Aruba and I was going get her and bring her home, you know, we were just go there and find her had, you know? I had no idea what was before me. And it`s a good thing because, golly, I think back and I think, God, I don`t know if I - you know, it`s so insurmountable anyway to think about when that much of a journey is ahead of you.

Yes, it`s a good thing I didn`t know what was ahead, because I just don`t know if I could have fought as hard, Nancy. God, because I had no idea it would be -- I know two and a half years later and from an investigative standpoint, I understand, sometimes it can take years, 10 years, and sometimes they`re not resolved. But to a mom and to a parent and when it happens, you want answers now and you want them today.

GRACE: The exact opposite of Beth Holloway is a mom we`re about to tell you about. Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An 11-year-old girl in Anderson, Indiana celebrated her birthday by drinking beer and smoking pot and police say she got it from her mother. Mom`s denying it, but three friends at the party say she offered it to them, too. Mom`s been charged with contributing to a delinquency of a minor.


GRACE: The little girl`s 11th birthday party and mommy gives her pot and booze.

Out to Charly -- Charly Butcher, thank you for being with us, with WOWO News Talk Radio. What happened?

CHARLY BUTCHER, REPORTER, WOWO NEWS TALK RADIO: Well, here -- it`s a story of an 11-year-old birthday party that just absolutely went stupid, Nancy. The mother, of course, Davita Fuller of Anderson, allows her daughter to have three of her friends over on February 1st, they`re going to celebrate her 11th birthday. You`re in 5th grade at that point in time. She also invites some people over, her sister and some guy named Alex.

Well, at some point during the evening, the sisters decide to light up the blunt that Sarah brought with her and crack open some beers. And maybe little Davita`s daughter would enjoy some of that for her birthday, too. So they offer it to her. She takes a drink and a drag and the three friends were also offered some, but they turned it down. And according to the girls, they were told don`t say anything to anybody, we`ll get in trouble.

Well, of course, somebody talks because the Department of Child Services starts an investigation with the help of the Anderson Police Department. They interview mom who says, yes, we had dope at the party, but we did not let the kids have any. You see, I gave my daughter that little look that means beat it, we`re going to start passing it around.

And that, by the way, isn`t a direct quote. Mom, of course, has a small criminal background. The neighbors are all shocked. They can`t believe all this is happening in their neighborhood. Davita was arrested, as you said, charged with contributing. She has bonded out. But the investigation does continue. And it`s not your normal who`s-your-cake and pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey birthday party (INAUDIBLE).

GRACE: No, it`s a pot and booze party for an 11-year-old little girl.

With me is Charly Butcher with WOWO News Talk Radio.

To Dr. Hua, Dr. Hua, very quickly, what effect does marijuana and alcohol have on an 11-year-old little girl?

HUA: Alcohol certainly will suppress your memory, cause a loss of distortions. Same as marijuana. Give you sort of misconception, mixed conception of reality. And kids at a young age are really -- are supposed at this age of study, they`re not supposed to have this kind of behavior.

GRACE: Dr. Hua, she may have bonded out for right now, but my prediction, mommy will be back to jail.

Everybody, here at NANCY GRACE, we`re on the hunt for parents who inspire and now tonight`s extraordinary parent.


JIM OSBORN, EXTRAORDINARY PARENT CONTEST FINALIST: Hello. We`re the Osborn. This is Zoe, our little light. I`m Jim and this is Amy Jo. We`re from Chattanooga, Tennessee.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just eight weeks after his birth, Austin Hatcher Osborn was diagnosed with an untreatable form of cancer. Days later, Hatch passed away.

A. OSBORN: We have this little miracle who`s in your arms one second and the next second, there`s nothing you can do to help him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Before Hatch`s birth, Amy Jo and Jim ironically spent years fundraising for children with cancer. Now reeling with grief, the couple knew they needed to do even more.

A. OSBORN: We just started thinking, OK, we`ve already done events, we know how to work with kids with cancer. What can we do to our best ability to help raise money.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Osborns created the Austin Hatcher Foundation that started a clothing line. All proceeds are donated to finding cures for pediatric cancer.

A. OSBORN: My life is committed to being a mom and being a mom that fights for other kids as well as keeping our son`s name alive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Through Hatcher`s tragic passing, Amy Jo and Jim have found joy in the birth of their daughter Zoe.

A. OSBORN: Her joy doesn`t overshadow the fact that we miss our son but more just the reality of how awesome it is to have kids.


GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories and more important, the people who touched our lives.


GRACE: Mommy forgets to buckle up her one 1-year-old baby girl. But don`t worry, the beer was protected. The girl was with the mother tonight?

DAVID B. SHOAR, SHERIFF, ST. JOHN`S COUNTY: The DCF has been notified.

GRACE: They`re probably having a kegger in the backyard right now.

Hollywood superstar Heath Ledger, cause of death, overdose.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I smell a rat in this situation. We`re seeing this too many times. Why is this young man on so many drugs?

GRACE: Six ladies shot execution style at a Lane Bryant ladies store.

MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE, SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Did this person know any of these victims? Did they just happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time?

GRACE: Why ask why?

BROOKS: Right.

GRACE: Because why never makes sense when you`re talking about murder.

Natalee Holloway`s case cracked. No thanks to the Aruban police. He threw her out like an old rag. Repeat, like an old rag.

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He may be charged with disposing of her body and that`s reprehensible in it of itself. But whether or not he committed a crime remains to be seen.

GRACE: Right, right, right, gotcha. Gotcha. Alex, if I`m ever arrested for murder one, I`ll remember to call you. We want justice now. Do you really think he will ever see a court of law, Peter?

DE VRIES: Yes, I`m convinced he will finally stand on trial.

GRACE: A lot of people have attacked you saying you crossed journalistic bounds by doing this. I say they`re just jealous they didn`t think of it first.

DE VRIES: I`m saying so what? I did. I did what was need. That`s what I did.

GRACE: Yes, you certainly did.


GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Jermaine Franklin, 22, Arlington, Texas, killed in Iraq. Second tour, awarded the National Defense Service medal, combat action badge and army service medal. Loved music, keyboard, played by ear. Working out. Dreamed of a criminal justice degree and becoming a cop. Leaves behind parents (INAUDIBLE) and Shera, one brother and four sisters.

Jermaine Franklin, American hero.

Thanks to our guests, but our biggest thank you to you. A special good night from the New York control room. Night, Liz. Night, Brett. And from Georgia, a friend of the show, Donna.

See you tomorrow night. 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friends.