Return to Transcripts main page

Nancy Grace

Joran Re-Arrest Ruling Postponed

Aired February 11, 2008 - 20:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: It was a case that couldn`t be cracked for three long years. Aruban police claimed they couldn`t make a case against judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot. But tonight: A reporter does what the entire Aruban government couldn`t or wouldn`t do, crack the case of 18- year-old Alabama girl Natalee Holloway, missing from a high school senior trip to Aruba, 2005.
Months of high-tech secret surveillance solves the mystery and proves what happened the night Holloway disappeared. After a stunning video confession caught on tape, investigators re-interrogate Van Der Sloot, last seen with Natalee Holloway. Was Holloway thrown into choppy ocean waters late that night still alive? In Van Der Sloot`s defense, he claims he was high on pot when he confessed, blabbing to his buddy literally for days. Tonight, the deadline for a judge`s panel to order the re-arrest Van Der Sloot. Natalee Holloway`s father, Jug Twitty, with us live.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joran Van Der Sloot could be re-arrested in the death of Natalee Holloway if an appeals court overturns a judge`s decision. Prosecutors say the videotaped confession of Van Der Sloot is impressive and believe the confession is admissible in court.

BETH HOLLOWAY, NATALEE`S MOTHER: I`ve always felt -- you know, a peace in my heart was that I knew that Natalee was with God. And I think now, after hearing Joran`s full admission, I take even more peace and comfort in knowing that, you know, my prayers were answered, and I needed to know what happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After being questioned by police, Van Der Sloot denies involvement in Natalee`s death, saying he was lying and high on drugs.


GRACE: Natalee`s stepfather, Jug Twitty, with us tonight, taking your calls live.

And also tonight, a young Ohio mom 9 months pregnant with her second child, vanishes from her own home, her 2-year-old son found in dirty diapers home alone, possibly alone for days. The toddler tells police, Mommy was crying, Mommy broke the table, Mommy`s in the rug. Tonight, the baby`s biological father and murder suspect, Bobby Cutts, breaks down on the stand, claiming it was all a big accident. Well, then, tell me, Mr. Cutts, exactly how did the body of 26-year-old Jessie Davis end up dumped in an obscure, heavily wooded area?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Former Canton, Ohio, policeman testifying in his murder trial. Bobby Cutts, Jr., is accused of killing Jessie Davis, his pregnant girlfriend -- she was nine months pregnant -- and dumping her body in a park last year. Now, fighting back tears, Cutts said he didn`t mean to hurt her. He testified that he swung his elbow and struck her when she wouldn`t let him out of the house.



GRACE: And tonight: A 3-year-old toddler found alone, wandering one of the busiest malls in St. Louis, the little boy found all alone at closing time. Tonight, 48 hours have passed. Where`s Mommy?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A 3-year-old boy left alone at a mall in the St. Louis suburbs. And tonight, police say the mom is too concerned about going to jail to even talk to officers about what happened -- outstanding warrants for 28-year-old Chamika Taylor (ph), a parole violation in 2002 and a second incident involving theft. Police say the 3-year-old boy appears healthy and happy and is now in protective care, a court hearing set to determine whether Taylor will regain custody.


GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. After a stunning secretly taped confession, the deadline set for the arrest of prime homicide suspect in the mystery of 18-year-old Alabama girl Natalee Holloway.


HOLLOWAY: Now that we`ve been able to hear the stunning admissions from Joran, we`ve been able to go back now and we can corroborate with some of the things that he`s admitting to Patrick, the informant in the car. We can bring it full circle and we can go back to the very beginning because it`s absolutely amazing some of the things that Joran is saying and admitting, some of the -- even the condition that Natalee was in as he`s watching her suffer.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joran was questioned in Rotterdam by at least three Aruban police investigators who flew to Holland, as well as members of the Netherlands national police force. We`re told it lasted about two hours only and that Van Der Sloot`s lawyer was present. Joran Van Der Sloot continues to deny to investigators that he had any involvement whatsoever in Natalee`s disappearance. And he is deferring to his earlier statements that he left Natalee alone on the beach that night and that the last he saw her, she was alive. And he went on further, saying that during these conversations in the car with this undercover investigator, he was under the influence of marijuana, which may have led to these statements.


GRACE: The deadline set for the arrest of Joran Van Der Sloot. With us tonight, taking your calls live, Natalee`s stepfather. Jug Twitty is with us.

Straight out to the lines, and to Jon Leiberman, "America`s Most Wanted" correspondent. Jon, what`s the deal with the deadline? We thought for sure by Monday, a decision would be made to arrest Joran Van Der Sloot. Why are they dragging their tails?

JON LEIBERMAN, "AMERICA`S MOST WANTED": Yes, we did. We got some clarity on the timeline just tonight, actually, Nancy. And now the court says that by the end of the week, they`ll rule. They want to give Joran`s attorney until the end of Wednesday to file any paperwork that he wants to file to show that Joran shouldn`t be re-arrested. So now we`re told by the end of the week, there will be an answer in this matter.

GRACE: Question. Jon Leiberman, you say they wanted to allows Joran Van Der Sloot`s attorney to file papers. Who`s they?

LEIBERMAN: It looks like the court wanted to allow enough time for both sides to get all of their arguments in and things of that sort, so that`s why this deadline has been pushed back.

GRACE: Out to Natalee Holloway`s stepfather, joining us live tonight, Jug Twitty. Jug, it just sounds like another delay, another delay imposed now by the courts. We`ve all known -- we`re thousands of miles away. We`ve known that the deadline was this week for the re-arrest order to be issued. So now why extend it? Defense lawyers don`t know that? We heard his defense lawyer here in the U.S. giving comments to the press on day one. Couldn`t he, instead of speaking to the press, get together a legal brief?

JUG TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S STEPFATHER: You`d actually think they certainly would do that. And Nancy, I don`t know. They`ve got -- you know, they got more evidence now than we`ve ever seen before. So I have no idea why they haven`t brought him back in for questioning.

GRACE: You know, Jug, when all of this happened, at the very, very beginning, when Natalee didn`t make that plane back to the U.S. after her high school senior trip to Aruba, you went down there. What happened when you got there? And how did the Aruban investigators treat you at that time?

TWITTY: Well, you know, after seeing the tape the other day that Peter De Vries did, it made it a lot clearer to me as to what happened. I think that the police knew that she was not alive the second day. When he did the shaking thing in the video -- you know, they questioned Beth and I the first day, second day, and then also questioned me two weeks later, and they kept asking about the epileptic...

GRACE: Right.

TWITTY: ... fits, or you know, that type stuff. Well, you don`t ask that straight out of the box. I knew there was something funny. So they knew. I think Joran told them that probably something happened on the beach and she did this. But Van Der Straaten, you know, probably just wanted to cover his friend`s son`s butt, and actually just got into it early on, and then it just got deeper and deeper and snowballed and they just covered every track (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: So Jug, what you`re telling me is that at the very beginning, in that very first week, when you went down to search for Natalee, they were asking you guys, you and Beth, her mom, Is she an epileptic? Does she have seizures? Which goes hand in hand with the story he just told on secret video that she had a seizure and died.

TWITTY: Absolutely. I mean, that`s what -- to me, and to Beth also, that just solidifies that he is telling the truth.

GRACE: Or he`s sticking to his story that she died of a seizure because, Jug, I don`t buy that a completely healthy girl -- you`re her stepfather, you know her as well as anybody else -- a completely healthy girl, not an epileptic, never had a seizure in her life, would have a couple of drinks at a bar and suddenly died? I don`t buy that.

But what it does prove is the story that he`s telling now, he may have told police way back when, and they didn`t put it in the file. What was in the file, Jug...

TWITTY: No, no. They put it in the file. Absolutely. I guarantee he told them that, Nancy. I promise you, because the next night, after Beth and I went in there, Beth gave a statement. I didn`t. They didn`t even ask for my statement until, like, two weeks later, like the 15th, which was crazy because all my friends were down there. They could have given them all the information they wanted. But they took Beth`s. The very next night, they came out to a restaurant when we were there, and Dennis Jacobs said, I need you to redo another statement. And they tore that statement up. So...


TWITTY: I mean, it`s -- I don`t know. I mean, ask them. Get Van Der Straaten on TV. See why he won`t come on the air. Ask him why he told me, if I didn`t keep my mouth shut that he was going to stop the investigation, you know? Just -- I would like to see him -- I think, you know...

GRACE: So you`re telling me that an Aruban investigator told you if you didn`t be quiet and quit questioning the investigation, that they would quit investigating, right?

TWITTY: Absolutely. I mean, I challenge him to come on here and say that he didn`t say that to me because I think he, like Paulus Van Der Sloot, are both cowards. They need to come on and clear this thing up. They could have solved it in the first -- in the first two days, three days.

GRACE: With me tonight is Jug Twitty. This is Natalee`s stepfather.

Let`s go out to the lines. We`re taking your calls live. Out to Sherri in Canada. Hi, Sherri.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. My condolences to the family, and I`m glad they`re finally getting some answers. This is exactly then my question, what you`re talking about right now. It seems to me the Aruban government has covered up this right from the beginning because why else would they be asking about epilepsy to the family, the only medical question they asked? And now all these years later, they`re talking about it again because it`s been brought up in a video. Like, what are they covering up? And why are they covering up? And how can we make them, like, accountable for this cover-up?

GRACE: You know, back to you, Jug. With me is Natalee Holloway`s stepfather. Jug, if there is a cover-up, why?

TWITTY: I think, you know, things like this probably happened on the island before and maybe people got away with it, and you know, the mass media that showed up down there, it just -- they just couldn`t cover it up. And why they didn`t come out and say -- if it was an accident, I mean, I`m sure -- I really truly feel that he gave her some kind of drug, but -- and then, you know, if something happened to her, why not be a man and just say, Look, this happened and -- but I knew when they wouldn`t help us come look for her the next day and he goes out and starts hiring attorneys and everything that there was something bad.

GRACE: What do you make of this secretly taped video confession he gave to one of his buddies? I mean, this isn`t just on one occasion, Jug. He talked to this guy who he thought was a dope dealer -- he talked to this guy for days and days and days, and he on 10 separate occasion over all of these months brought up the same story about he was with Natalee when she died. What do you make of it?

TWITTY: And I agree he was with Natalee when she died. I mean, whether Deepak and Satish were there, I don`t know, but they know -- they know, too. And now that -- I wish they would come out and say something. Now that he`s said they didn`t have anything to do with it, what do they have to lose?

GRACE: Take a listen...


GRACE: Take a listen to Joran Van Der Sloot.


JORAN VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): And she just came down from on top of the bar. She just came up to me.

PATRICK VAN DER EEM (through translator): Who?

VAN DER SLOOT: Natalee, Come take a jelly shot of me. So the whore jumped up on the bar and she wanted me to take a jelly shot out her navel. I did it. Then she says, So now you have to buy me a drink. So I said, What do you want? She says, What`s good? I say, A shot of Bacardi 151. She says, OK, that`s fine.

So she takes a shot of Bacardi 151. She takes it, and right away, she goes, Whoo, bam. You know, 151 proof, you know, 151 proof that is. That`s 75 percent alcohol. So she asked for a chaser. She`s drunk, really drunk. But I was thinking, I`ll just take the girl with me. We`ll go (DELETED) So I say, What do you want to do? You want to go to your hotel? I`ll just go with her to her hotel. That`s the best thing to do. She says, No, no, no, I don`t want to go to my own hotel.



VAN DER EEM (through translator): This guy really knows what he`s doing. Did he weigh her down to make her sink?

VAN DER SLOT (through translator): No, no. I don`t think so.

VAN DER EEM: You don`t even know that?


VAN DER EEM: Did he ever tell you how he did it?

VAN DER SLOT: Of course he did.

VAN DER EEM: How did he do it, then?

VAN DER SLOT: He just went out into the sea further and he just dumped her.

VAN DER EEM: He just threw her overboard, just like that? You`ve been really lucky, you know? No (DELETED), you`ve really been lucky.

VAN DER SLOT: That`s what I say, I`ve been very lucky.

VAN DER EEM: Really lucky that he has been so stupid to do this, you know?

VAN DER SLOT: I was even able to sleep that night. I just went home and went to bed.


GRACE: That is video from ABC`s "20/20." It`s Joran Van Der Sloot, showing absolutely no concern about 18-year-old American girl Natalee Holloway, likely dumped at sea.

Out to the lines. Debra in Louisiana. Hi, Debra.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. First of all, I want to say that you`re wonderful.

GRACE: Thank you. And hello to all my Cajun friends. What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was just calling -- when he said that he was high on marijuana when he talked to this guy, doesn`t drugs usually loosen your inhibitions, kind of like the saying, When the wine goes down, the truth comes up?

GRACE: Excellent question. Out to Dr. Bruce Levy, medical examiner and forensic pathologist joining us out of Nashville, Tennessee. Dr. Levy, wouldn`t pot have the reverse effect, as Debra in Louisiana is pointing out? I would think that it would give you less ability to lie or to have guile and loosen your inhibitions.

DR. BRUCE LEVY, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, it definitely loosens your inhibitions. I mean, whether you`re going to take that loosened inhibitions and tell a story that doesn`t -- isn`t true and doesn`t make any sense or you`re going to come out and tell the truth, it`s hard to say.

But what I think is really interesting is what the father says about them being asked about epilepsy right off the bat. You now have a connection between his lying confession, as he says, and what was being asked the family right at the beginning. And as you and I both know, in these cases, when people confess, there`s always some truth and there`s always some lie mixed in together. And trying to figure out what`s going on here, you know, is very interesting.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Jeri in Arkansas. Hi, Jeri.


GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Me question is, on the tape, Joran made the statement that he would take the name of the person who helped him to his grave. And remember way back in the very beginning when people -- there was the statement made, No body, no crime?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I`m going back now to his father, Paulus. Who would a child protect and take the name to their grave if it weren`t a parent?

GRACE: Well, you are certainly reading the minds of a lot of people. What about it, Jug Twitty?

TWITTY: Well, I`ll take his name to my grave, too, because Paulus is the man -- I promise you, Paulus is involved in this. I truly believe it.

GRACE: Why do you say that, Jug?

TWITTY: I just do. I met the man face to face the night we got down there. He had no idea we`d show up that quick. And he just -- he was the most rude person I`ve ever seen. And you know, I`m a father, too, and no matter what my -- you know, and I love my son to death, but if he did something wrong, I would stand up to it and we`d just have to deal with it and...

GRACE: Oh! Speaking of Paul Van Der Sloot, there he is. I mean, that`s a simply question -- oh, no, that`s his backside, which is what we saw the most of. Whenever anyone would ask him a question, all you would see is backside and elbows taking off into the night, never answering a question. Look familiar, Jug Twitty?

So at the very beginning, Jug, how was the father to you?

TWITTY: Oh, he was obnoxious. You know, he just -- all we were trying to do is ask -- I`ll never forget -- Joran has lied from the beginning because as soon as we got there, Beth stayed in the car, we walked up to the house with the police. And we had a picture of Natalee, her senior picture, and showed it to Joran, said, Have you seen this girl? Nope, never seen her before in my life. You know, so he`s lied from the beginning.


HOLLOWAY: I`ve always felt -- you know, a peace in my heart was that I knew that Natalee was with God. And I think now, after hearing Joran`s full admission, I take even more peace and comfort in knowing that, you know, my prayers were answered, and I needed to know what happened. You know, the not knowing is the sheer hell, and the knowing, even though it`s difficult, it gives you that ability to have peace and comfort and begin the mourning and this journey.




HOLLOWAY: When I hear Joran talking about her like that, my gosh, you just -- you know, first you want to come through the TV and I want to kill him, I mean, and peel the skin off his face. And I think of the utter disregard he had for Natalee. Look what he`s done to his friends. Look what he`s done to a country. Look what he`s done to everyone. It`s just despicable, what he has done.


GRACE: The deadline has been set for the re-arrest decision on judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot since last week, but suddenly, now his lawyers get extra time to file legal measures.

To Catharine Skipp, "Newsweek" reporter. You spoke to the prosecutors today. Is there any indication the person named Daury, who that could be that allegedly helped Van Der Sloot dispose of the body?

CATHARINE SKIPP, "NEWSWEEK": The prosecutor had no comment about Daury, whether they had interviewed him, whether they knew who he was, whether he was under investigation. But due to our reporting, we found that he may have -- that Van Der Sloot may have been using an alias because he said he knew something about this guy, he had something on him, that he would never give him up. So maybe he just used that name, Daury, to get Patrick to start asking him about it.

GRACE: Catharine Skipp, did prosecutors tell you what came of their re-interrogation last week of Van Der Sloot?

SKIPP: They said they`re still going over the materials that they got, the active investigation. They`re looking at a lot of new things now that they`ve got the tape.


HOLLOWAY: There was a time when I`d say, yes -- it just like, How can I continue to do this? And where am I going and what am I -- what am I getting -- I just felt like I wasn`t getting anywhere. But you know what? All that steady, constant, everyday steps that we took, each one was well worth it because look where we are today.




PETER DE VRIES, DUTCH INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: This case was still unsolved. And that amazes me because Joran lied a couple of times, established lies. And the whole case happens on, let`s say, 500 square meters on the beach. So I thought it must be possible to solve this case.


GRACE: The clock is ticking on the decision whether to re-arrest Joran Van Der Sloot, the judge`s son who`s the prime suspect in the homicide, the death of 18-year-old Alabama girl Natalee Holloway. With us tonight, her stepfather, Jug Twitty. We are taking your calls live.

Out to Maureen in New Jersey. Hi, Maureen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Love your show.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has Joran or his father been given a lie detector test, or are there plans to do that?

GRACE: To Jug Twitty. What about it?

TWITTY: We tried that from the get-go, and everybody says, you know, that`s not an option down there.

GRACE: Out to Donna in Canada. Hi, Donna.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. My prayers go out to the family. I`m just wondering, since they have an idea of where the body is now, what are the chances of finding it? And can they get anything from that?

GRACE: Tom Shamshak, private investigator, any chance, do you believe, with all of your expertise and investigations looking for remains?

TOM SHAMSHAK, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Good evening, Nancy. Nancy, we`re looking for the needle in the haystack here, but this is a crime scene that should deserve a redoubling of efforts. If we`re going to find anything, it`s there on the ocean floor. And they can limit the parameters.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s all come down to this: will Joran Van der Sloot be rearrested in the death investigation of Natalee Holloway? Will the prosecutors awaiting an appeals court decision that could give the green light in bringing Joran Van der Sloot back to Aruba and charging the former suspect in Natalee Holloway`s death?

PETER R. DE VRIES, DUTCH INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST, RELEASED ALLEGED "CONFESSION" TAPE: I was shocked by the way, by he disrespect he talked about Natalee. He called her a bitch and things like that.

GRACE: He called her a whore.


GRACE: He called a bitch for absolutely no reason. This girl had sterling reputation.

DE VRIES: And he`s showing no remorse at all. He`s telling that he didn`t lose any second of sleep.


GRACE: The clock ticking on the possible re-arrest of prime suspect Joran Van der Sloot. We thought there`d be a decision as we went to air tonight. No such luck. Once again the Aruban government dragging their tails in the case of Natalee Holloway.

With us tonight, her stepfather Jug Twitty. Taking your calls live.

Let`s unleash the lawyers, Susan Moss, Michael Mazzariello and Ray Giudice.

Susan Moss, weigh in.

SUSAN MOSS, CHILD ADVOCATE, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: For three years, the prosecution has gotten nothing. One Scooby Doo Mystery Machine van ride later, this guy can`t stop talking. He would have gotten away with it if - - but it wasn`t for this meddling reporter. This is outrageous, the fact that this cover-up has started from day one and it was only a reporter who`s been able to shed light on this.

GRACE: What about that, Jug? I mean, and it started at the get-go. The investigation was snake bit on day one. Why?

JUG TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S STEPFATHER: Absolutely, Nancy, because they knew she was dead the second -- probably the second day. You know, my friends went down there with me, we went down to all the crack houses, kicking down the doors and (INAUDIBLE) would say don`t do that. Do not go and then do this. It`s dangerous. And then we`d go to a place, we thought she was there, we were told she was there. The police would show up like 30 minutes late, and they`d say, well, we knew she wasn`t there. Yes, you knew she wasn`t there because you knew she was dead the second day. And here you put Beth and Dave, you know, going through dumps and going to -- up and down every street through all this stuff, I mean, it`s horrible.

GRACE: So you, Beth and Dave Holloway were going to crack houses and scouring neighborhoods, going through dumps looking for Natalee`s body or for Natalee?

TWITTY: Well, when they knew that she was probably - well, that she was dead, I think they knew anyway. I mean that`s why they didn`t question any of the friends, any of the people that were there in the dance that night. We had the entourage that showed up at the house. None of those people that came with us. I mean some of them even went to Alabama, you know, and never got questioned. So they didn`t want the answer or they knew the answer.

GRACE: But why? Why, Jug? Why don`t they want to know the truth?

TWITTY: Nancy, let`s have an investigation into the investigation, that`s what you need. Because there`s a lot of good police down there, but there is a pocket in there and they just -- it`s bad.

GRACE: Well, Jug, the fish stinks at the head, as the saying goes.

Back out to the lawyers, Michael Mazzariello, Susan Moss, Ray Giudice.

Ray Giudice of the Atlanta jurisdiction, will there be a re-arrest? Why or why not?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I really think there will be. I think even the Aruba - the police here, the keystone cops of the international beach society are just going to absolutely have to do this and I think that`s the reason for the delay. This court is looking for some sound legal foundation that will not be challenged to finally put this case in the sunshine of the courtroom where it belongs.

GRACE: A sound, legal foundation. So one reporter, Michael Mazzariello, did what the government couldn`t do in three years, get this guy to talk?

MICHAEL MAZZARIELLO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good evening, Nancy. Nancy, we have an admission against his penal interests. We could corroborate his story that he first gave to the police, the second story he gave to the police, with this interview, squeeze him, nail him, make the arrest, put him in jail where he belongs.

GRACE: But back to you, Susan Moss, what do we really have? If you take Van der Sloot`s confession at face value, which I do not, because I don`t think a perfectly healthy young girl, 18 years old -- I mean, look at Natalee Holloway, she is the picture of health -- has a couple of drinks at a bar, goes out on the beach and dies. All right? It doesn`t happen that way. She`s perfectly healthy.

But if we take his statement as true, which it`s not, what crime do we have?

MOSS: Well, certainly there are many secondary crimes. He was lying to authorities, he was tampering with evidence, the illegal dumping of a body, there are many secondary questions that he could be charged with. But I wonder if he gave this girl a date rape drug.

GRACE: GHB, Gamma hydroxybutyrate. Beth told me, Beth Holloway told me that was her very, very strong suspicion.

Out to the lines, Florence in California. Hi, Florence.

FLORENCE, FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi Nancy, congratulations to both you and your husband, the twins are beautiful. Here`s my question. Joran is such a liar. Why are we believing that they were even on the beach that night? Is there another theory? That maybe it was at his house? Maybe she`s buried in the backyard? Nancy, what do you think?

GRACE: Jug Twitty, I think they did go to the beach that night. I think we can establish that much. Yes, no?

TWITTY: I think they did go to the beach probably that night, too, at some point.

GRACE: Why do we believe that? Why is that so entrenched in the story?

TWITTY: Just from everything that I have heard from the beginning, it just all revolved around the beach. Now they may have gone to his house, too. But I even think, you know, I`m not so sure he did throw her in the ocean. I don`t know that. And if he didn`t, I hope they find her.

GRACE: I agree. But Florence in California may have a point. The beach may be a complete red herring.

To Ty in Washington. Hi, Ty.


GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

TY: I was wondering if Van der Sloot`s convicted, how long will - if do you guys know how long he`ll get in jail?

GRACE: What about it, Jon Leiberman. That`s a good question.

JON LEIBERMAN, CORRESPONDENT, AMERICA`S MOST WANTED: An excellent question. If he gets murder or aiding and abetting murder, it could be life. But if he gets something like helping to dispose of a body, it`s only six months in Aruba.

Nancy, one thing the significance of this videotape is, the reopening of the investigation, but also the fact that they have gotten to serve two additional search warrants as well where they`re looking at now his hard drive and his computer and one of your lawyers said, you know, that he thinks that Van der Sloot will be rearrested. If that does happen, it will be because of some of this physical evidence they have gotten because this videotape finally came out.

GRACE: Back to Catherine Skipp, "Newsweek" reporter. Catharine, thank you for being with us. Did Van der Sloot have a history of picking up tourists?

CATHARINE SKIPP, REPORTER, NEWSWEEK: Well, between he and his friends, they`re always talking about picking up drunk tourists. But one thing going back to the tape is he keeps talking about his fear of them finding the body. I think that`s a key piece there because if he did give her a date rape drug, that`s going to show. If there`s water in her lugs, that`s going to show.

GRACE: At this juncture, they would -- there will be no soft tissue left to determine was there water in her lungs, Catharine, but I think you bring up an excellent point. If everything was innocent, Catharine, why would he say, if they find her body, I`m in deep, expletive?

SKIPP: Exactly. I think that`s one of the things that he just keeps going back to about finding the body, if they find the body with my sperm in it.

GRACE: You know, to.

SKIPP: So there`s something there that I think they need to look into a lot further.

GRACE: Patricia Saunders, I`ve seen it a million times on the stand when a defendant is so reckless or arrogant to take the stand and endure cross-examination, you find a story line which is based partially in truth, but then it weaves in and out. Whenever the story starts looking bad for the defendant, they change those facts and they`ll hop back into the truth. What is that phenomenon?

PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, in the exorcism rituals of the Catholic Church, one of the tenet is that the devil always mixes truth and lies. Part of it is the way that the psychopath wants you to see it, and the other is oops, I`m getting close to the truth, I`m going to change it.

GRACE: To Jug Twitty, Natalee`s stepfather. Jug, what now? What do we do now?

TWITTY: We sit back and pray and cross our fingers that the Aruban people will step up. I mean, I`m surprised, as much money as he`s cost that island down there, he and his father, how they even let him stay on the island amazes me. I just hope somebody will step up besides Jossy Mansur. He seems to be the only one who has any guts down there and do something.

GRACE: Jug, remember at the beginning when we were all burned in effigy down on Aruba and now it`s all come full circle and the Aruban people are completely fed up with the whole thing.

TWITTY: I hope so.

GRACE: I pray along with you, Jug. Jug Twitty joining us tonight, Natalee`s stepfather, answering all of your questions.

When we come back, an Ohio police officer breaks down on the stand claiming the death of his 26-year-old girlfriend nine months pregnant was all a big accident. Remember the name? Bobby Cut?

And tonight, APB, all points bulletin for special moms and dads. If you know a parent who`s an inspiration to others, get your camcorder. Go to and click on i-Report, enter that person, that parent in the "Extraordinary Parent Contest."

And tonight, new shots of the twins. Here they are. Lucy and John David. Here they are on wheels, making a break from the baby room. Get away driver, baby nurse, Lani. I apprehended all three and they are back in the clink tonight. These are the pictures. That`s on the Web site tonight. I hope you like it.


BETH HOLLOWAY, NATALEE`S MOTHER: It`s stunning that 48 hours into Natalee`s disappearance I was asked by Aruban detective if Natalee has a history of seizures or epilepsy, and when I`m hearing, Joran say that it looked like Natalee was having a seizure and then he even makes me sick and I want to come through the screen and kill him, when he imitates her, he imitates her as she`s suffering.




BOBBY CUTTS JUNIOR, FORMER POLICE: I swung my arm back and I killed her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And where did that elbow land?

CUTTS: Her throat area.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On her throat area?

CUTTS: Yes. She hit the ground.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How hard did she fall?

CUTTS: She fell pretty hard.


GRACE: Remember the name Bobby Cutts Jr.? Well there he is finally in a court of law boo-hooing in court about his accident he had with his 26-year-old girlfriend Jessie Davis, a beautiful young girl nine months pregnant with his baby. Remember the baby was set to be named Chloe? There she is, Jessie Davis.

Remember the little toddler son she had, also a child of Bobby Cutts Jr., told police mommy broke the table, mommy`s in the rug? Well, finally it`s gone to trial. The defense, it was all a big accident.

Out to Phil Trexler, reporter with the "Akron Beacon Journal." What happened in court today, Phil?

PHIL TREXLER, REPORTER, AKRON BEACON JOURNAL: Well, good evening, Nancy. I hate to start this off with a cliche, but it certainly was explosive testimony today in the Bobby Cutts murder trial. It`s not often that a defendant takes the witness stand and that`s exactly what Bobby did. He went up there and he tried to explain himself. He tried to explain what we were all wondering about exactly what took place inside Jessie`s bedroom the morning of June the 14th. Bobby got up there and very tearful, emotional testimony.

GRACE: You`re on a first-name basis with him?

TREXLER: I am not, no. (INAUDIBLE) are first name basis in this case, you know, even the coroner even referred to Miss Davies as Jessie throughout her testimony so everyone down here is on a first name basis.

GRACE: So what was his defense? How did she die?

TREXLER: He said there was a confrontation inside of her house, that he wanted to leave, she stopped him, and that he threw an elbow in trying to get her away from him, and that elbow inadvertently hit her in the throat and that eventually killed her.

GRACE: To Dr. Bruce Levy, medical examiner, forensic pathologist, sounds like a bunch of BS to me, you hit somebody in the throat and they die?

DR. BRUCE LEVY, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: It just doesn`t happen that way. You`re not going to get a sudden death. What`s going to happen if you hit hard enough, you could actually crush the airway. And if you crush the airway, what you`re going to end up with is a period of time until the person essentially suffocates to death because they can`t breathe anymore. But again, we`re looking at a case that is very difficult for a medical examiner, when you get remains that are so deteriorated that you can`t come to a firm conclusion as to the cause of death. I have death with those cases, they`re very hard to deal with.

GRACE: To Jon Leiberman with "America`s Most Wanted." Jon, he said it was all an accident. If it were an accident, then her body ended up being hidden in a remote, obscure wooded area, was that an accident, too, for her dead body just fell out of the car behind the tree?

LEIBERMAN: Great point, Nancy. I mean, number one he didn`t have an answer to the question, why didn`t you call 911 and he did admit on the stand today that he wrapped Jessie`s body in a comforter, took it down the stairs, put it in the back of the truck and then panicked, he went to a friend`s house to pick up his friend, and then he did admit dumping the body and then leading police to it as well.

GRACE: Out to the lawyers, Susan Moss, Michael Mazzariello, Ray Giudice.

Susan Moss, it`s all a big accident and then he sat on the location of her body for weeks on end while it deteriorated? That`s no accident.

MOSS: Cutts is a puts. This guy should have taken a deal. He is going to just - they`re just going to massacre this guy. I mean, you know, she is a very nine month pregnant woman, very sympathetic, this jury is not going to like him at all.

GRACE: To the lines, Sheeba in Illinois. Hi, Sheeba.

SHEEBA, FROM ILLINOIS: Hi, Nancy. My question is -- I want to start out with a comment. I don`t know how many other children he had, but I think three. And I think maybe he had asked her to get an abortion or demanded she did and she didn`t do that. And perhaps he killed her because he didn`t want to pay anymore child support because his children.

GRACE: Well, that`s a dead point, Sheeba. In fact, Elizabeth, let`s put up his monthly expenses. They go mostly to child support. And while we wait for that to come up, to answer Sheeba`s question, here we go. Take a look at that. $5800 a month in earning, $2800 goes to mortgage and loans and $1200 a month in child support for three women, three separate kids.

Ray Giudice, as Phil Trexler with the "Akron Beacon Journal" said, it`s very rare that a defendant takes the stand, there`s a reason for that. What would it be?

GIUDICE: Yes, it`s called cross-examination and that`s always quite painful for we, defense lawyers, to see our clients crossed by a good experienced prosecutor. But, Nancy, this trial for the defense is about one thing and one thing only, a verdict of guilt for less than capital murder. That`s what this trial is about. If the defense gets a voluntary or involuntary.

GRACE: Right.

GIUDICE: .manslaughter, they`re happy.

GRACE: Very quickly, Phil Trexler, what is the maximum Bobby Cutts Jr. could face at trial?

TREXLER: He could face the death penalty. He`s charged with aggravated murder, aggravated burglary murder, and prosecutors just kind of (INAUDIBLE) something in those case.

GRACE: Michael Mazzariello, would you have let him take the stand?

MAZZARIELLO: Well, if there`s no other choice, Nancy, me, if I defended him, absolutely not. But like Ray said, the lesser charge is what they`re to beat, so maybe yes.

GRACE: You`re absolutely right about that, trying to get anything less than murder one.

When we come back, everybody -- and we`re going to stay on verdict with Bobby Cutts Jr.-- a 3-year-old toddler found alone, left wandering one of the busiest malls in St. Louis. Where`s mommy?


GRACE: A 3-year-old toddler found wandering one of the busiest malls in this country. Mommy is alive and well so why hasn`t she come to pick up her son.

To Melanie Streeper with 550 KTRS, what`s the word, Melanie? Where`s mommy? Looking for Melanie Streeper. Melanie are you with me?

Let`s go to Jon Leiberman with "America`s Most Wanted." Where`s mommy?

LEIBERMAN: Ah, that`s a wonderful question, Nancy. Mommy still hasn`t come forward. This kid was unidentified for 21 hours. His aunt actually had to see him on the local news and identify him and go pick him up. He`s now with child protective services. It turns out the mother has a warrant for her arrest because she never showed up for sentencing for theft charges.

GRACE: Theft charges. So she`s willing to let the little boy stay in protective custody like a foster home so she can avoid getting sentenced on a theft charge?

LEIBERMAN: It`s unbelievable. It really is. The fact of the matter is mall workers had to bring this kid in. They saw this kid wandering around. They brought him in. They had to find out his name, find out his age, and put his picture on the local news.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Dallas in Texas. Hi, Dallas. What`s your question?

DALLAS, FROM TEXAS: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: Good dear.

DALLAS: Congratulations on the baby.

GRACE: Thank you.

DALLAS: My question is, does his mother have any history of child neglect?

GRACE: Good question.

DALLAS: Or any issue with .

GRACE: To Melanie Streeper, what about it?

MELANIE STREEPER, REPORTER, 550 KTRS RADIO ST. LOUIS: We do not know if she has any history of child abuse or neglect. Again, we know that there`s a couple of warrants out for her arrest on charges of felony theft.

GRACE: This little baby tonight still in foster care while we wait for mommy to show up. We`ll stay on the story.

But let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant Joseph Vanek, just 22, Elmhurst, Illinois, killed in Iraq. Third tour, awarded the bronze star, Purple Heart, and army commendation medal. Loved Chicago Bears and social studies. Dreamed of college and becoming a teacher, buying a motorcycle. Leaves me behind grieving parents Frank and Janice, sister Ann.

Joseph Vanek, an American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for inviting us into your homes. And tonight a special good night to a friend of the show, veteran defense attorney Michael Mazzariello and his little crime fighter son Michael Jr.

Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern and until then, good night, friend.