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Nancy Grace

Appeals Court to Rule on Van Der Sloot Re-Arrest

Aired February 13, 2008 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: It was the case that couldn`t be cracked for three long years. Aruban police claim they couldn`t make a case against judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot. But tonight: A reporter does what the entire Aruban government couldn`t or wouldn`t do, crack the case of 18- year-old Alabama girl Natalee Holloway, missing from a high school senior trip to Aruba 2005.
Well, months of high-tech secret surveillance solved the mystery of what happened the night Holloway disappeared after a stunning video confession caught on tape. Was Holloway thrown into choppy ocean waters late that night still alive? Van Der Sloot`s defense? He was high on pot when he confessed to his buddy.

As we go to air tonight, the deadline for Van Der Sloot`s defense to stop his re-arrest. And tonight, Natalee Holloway`s aunt, Linda Allison, with us live, taking your calls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joran Van Der Sloot could be re-arrested in the death of Natalee Holloway, the decision now in the hands of an appeals court. Van Der Sloot`s defense had until today to file reasons not to arrest him. Prosecutors want the arrest after the videotaped confession of Van Der Sloot surfaced. They say it should be admissible in court. Van Der Sloot still maintains his confession was a lie because he was high on drugs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight: The brutal late-night attack on a well-known beloved psychologist at her upscale Manhattan office. A man believed to be a patient goes on a rampage, hacking the doctor to death with multiple weapons, including a meat cleaver. A life and death struggle ensued there in the office, blood spatter evidence on the floors, the walls, furniture and papers strewn everywhere. Tonight: Grainy surveillance video emerges in the manhunt, the perp caught on tape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... a therapist hacked to death with a meat cleaver in her office, the killer believed to be one of her patients.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a pretty fierce struggle. Her desk was overturned. Some indications she may have tried to get away from him. She screamed for help. Dr. Shimback (ph) ran in, and by then, she was already on the ground, probably dead already. He fought with the attacker for a good 10 minutes before he himself was pinned to the wall. He was slashed a number of times, and then the suspect stole money from him and fled out a basement exit. He was caught on videotape entering and exiting the building, and now police have released that videotape, as well as the sketch of him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And also tonight: A shooting spree at upscale Lane Bryant ladies` clothing store, six women gunned down execution-style. One victim survived. Tonight: Police release a composite sketch. Will the sketch break the case?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is there finally an arrest in a deadly shooting rampage at a Lane Bryant clothing store outside Chicago? Local reports say a possible suspect taken into custody overnight by the U.S. Marshals Fugitive Task Force. The local police in Tinley Park, where the shootings occurred, say no and say reports they identified a suspect for questioning are also not true. Hundreds of tips still pouring in as a detailed composite sketch is released, hopefully, bringing authorities one step closer to cracking the case and bringing to justice the man who gunned down six innocent women.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. After a secretly taped confession, the deadline for the defense to stop the arrest of prime suspect judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The clock is ticking, and when it strikes zero, Joran Van Der Sloot could be re-arrested. The deadline for Van Der Sloot`s defense team to explain why he shouldn`t be arrested now passed. It`s up to a three-judge appeals court to decide if Van Der Sloot should be arrested for a third time. The judges` decision could come at any moment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The significance of this videotape is the reopening of the investigation, but also the fact that they`ve gotten to serve two additional search warrants, as well, where they`re looking at now his hard drive and his computer. If Van Der Sloot will be re-arrested, it will be because of some of this physical evidence that they`ve gotten because this videotape finally came out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: The deadline has just come, as we go to air, for Van Der Sloot`s defense to explain why he should not be re-arrested. The defense has been given every opportunity. Many say the rules have been bent for Joran Van Der Sloot there in Aruba.

Let`s go straight out to Catharine Skipp, "Newsweek" reporter. What was the defense expected to do to stop the re-arrest of prime suspect Joran Van Der Sloot?

CATHARINE SKIPP, "NEWSWEEK": Well, I was in contact with one of his attorneys just before the show, and they`re playing it very close to the vest. They said they filed, and they`re waiting like everybody else to hear the decision.

GRACE: Well, what I don`t understand -- with us tonight, Catharine Skipp, "Newsweek" reporter -- is, you know, in America, in our justice system, it`s very rare that documents such as motions for arrest, arrest warrants, search warrants -- very rarely are they kept secret. We believe in the sunshine being in the courtroom, open courtrooms. Why are these documents so close to the vest? Why can`t we see what the sides are arguing?

SKIPP: Just both sides are saying the same thing, is that it`s under investigation and it will all be revealed in time. Not our justice system.

GRACE: To Jossy Mansur, managing director of "Diario" magazine there on the island of Aruba. It`s going to happen in time? Well, it`s been about three years. How much time -- how much more time do we need, Jossy?

JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "DIARIO": I don`t know. I think this thing should have been solved a long time ago, especially with this tape that surfaced. With this tape anywhere else in the world, he would be in prison by now.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Shunda in Kentucky. Hi, Shunda.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How`re you doing?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was just wondering if they checked the pay phone. He said he called a friend from a pay phone. Did they check to see what call was made (INAUDIBLE) that particular time?

GRACE: Shunda, you`re absolutely correct. According to Joran Van Der Sloot, one of his theories, he called for help there at a pay phone -- no, not help for Natalee. No. No, no, no. Help for him to hide the body. Now, according to his U.S. defense attorney, the Coast Guard checked the pay phone and determined such a call was never made, Shunda. I don`t know what jurisdiction the Coast Guard would have to check a pay phone.

What about it, Catharine Skipp? What do we know about that pay phone and why the Coast Guard would have checked it? Or was that totally fabricated by the defense lawyers?

SKIPP: I won`t go so far as to say that. But according to the prosecutors, they`re still investigating that part of whether the phone was used, where the calls were made to. He also said that that phone only made calls to the U.S. And again, the prosecutor is very tight-lipped about that, but he said they`re still looking at that.

GRACE: Out to a special guest joining us tonight. With us is Linda Allison. This is Natalee`s aunt. Thank you for being with us, Linda.

LINDA ALLISON, NATALEE`S AUNT: Thank you.

GRACE: Thank you very much. What do you make of the so-called phone call made from the pay phone?

ALLISON: Well, I would have to think, considering the Marriott has several different towers there, that there`s probably other local phones there that would be available, not just this one phone that they`re saying is for international calling. And I am just really shocked to hear that the Coast Guard would be the one checking those phone records and not the Aruban authorities.

GRACE: To Jossy Mansur with "Diario" magazine there on the island of Aruba. Jossy, what can you tell us? Why would the Coast Guard be checking that pay phone?

MANSUR: I don`t think they checked that phone. From the information that we have locally, no one has checked that phone so far. That one can only be used with credit cards. The big question is, Did Joran have a credit card with him that night?

GRACE: The big question is what?

MANSUR: Did Joran have a credit card with him that night in order to be able to make a phone call from that specific phone?

GRACE: You know, but it seems to me -- didn`t he have a cell phone, Jossy?

MANSUR: He should have had a cell phone with him, yes.

GRACE: So why go to a pay phone and make a surreptitious pay phone -- phone call? It doesn`t make sense. Shunda in Kentucky is absolutely correct.

To Roxanne in Florida. Hi, Roxanne.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You rock, Nancy. But OK, my question is -- and it kind of pertains to the phone -- you know, the phone call thing. He said that he called someone, and you know, he met him there and then he took Natalee`s body and dumped it. But what makes you think that maybe he did it himself? Because you know, there were boats accessible out there. Based on that location, if that was the location they showed, there were boats out there. Why couldn`t he have done it?

GRACE: You know what? It`s an angle not many people have thought of, Roxanne. Let`s explore it. Out to Holly Hughes, prosecutor in Atlanta. What about him disposing of the body himself? Does the timeline really fit? Because we know that he went home and I believe logged on or tightened up his alibi. Within an hour or so, he was already at another location.

HOLLY HUGHES, PROSECUTOR: That`s exactly right, Nancy. He did, in fact, go home, log on to his computer right away. And quite frankly, there`s a lot of speculation that his father advised him to do so. This isn`t a young man who wants to get his hands dirty. Once he realized he had an emergency situation on his hands, he didn`t want to deal with it. So he called somebody else to do the dirty work. What did he, in fact, was extricate himself from that situation.

And this is exactly what we`re hearing. When the FBI profiled him, they said he was a sociopath. He has no sympathy, no empathy. And he thinks he`s above it all, Nancy, so he just called somebody else to get him out of trouble.

GRACE: To Jossy Mansur, the managing director of "Diario" magazine. He`s joining us there from Aruba. Jossy, let`s look at the timeline. When can we finally pinpoint that Joran Van Der Sloot was somewhere other than with Natalee?

MANSUR: Well, that`s very hard for us to determine. The prosecution should have all of those on file, or the investigative team here in Aruba. We have no knowledge of that.

GRACE: What do we know, Linda Allison? It`s my understanding that he for some reason took his shoes off and hid them, walked home and started building his alibi for that very night by logging on line.

ALLISON: And that`s one of the things that we had understood, that somewhere around between 12:30 and 1:00 o`clock is when they left Carlos and Charlie`s, and then he logged on his computer somewhere around 3:00 o`clock, and that he -- there was one morning, and I don`t know if it was that Monday morning or the following morning, that we had heard he had actually arrived to school late, like, at 10:00 o`clock in the morning. So we don`t know the timetable. The police know that. So he could have very easily called and gotten assistance that night and asked for somebody else to handle everything for him.

GRACE: Catharine Skipp with "Newsweek" is joining us. Catharine, what do we know about the timeline?

SKIPP: As she said, it`s very sketchy about what time he left, what time he went to the next place. If you listen to his -- on the tape, he talks about how smart he was, how he went to the casino so he could be on the tape. And he was covering from the very get-go.

GRACE: Speaking of the tapes, secretly recorded audio, videotapes inside a car, an SUV, with Joran Van Der Sloot in it. Tonight, the deadline for the defense to stop this tape from coming into evidence and to stop the re-arrest of former judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot.

Take a listen to what Van Der Sloot had to say when he thought nobody was listening.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JORAN VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): And she just came down from on top of the bar. She just came up to me.

PATRICK VAN DER EEM (through translator): Who?

VAN DER SLOOT: Natalee. Come take a jelly shot off me. So the whore jumped on the bar, and she wanted me to take a jelly shot out of her navel. I did it. Then she says, So now you have to buy me a drink. So I said, What do you want? She says, What`s good? I say, A shot of Bacardi 151. She says, OK, that`s fine.

So she takes a shot of Bacardi 151. She takes it, and right away she goes, Whoo, bam -- 151 proof, you know, 151 proof, that is. That`s 75 percent alcohol. So she asks for a chaser. She`s drunk, really drunk. What I was thinking, I`ll just take the girl with me. We`ll go (DELETED). So I say, What do you want to do?? You want to go to your hotel? I`ll just go with her to her hotel. That`s the best thing to do. She says, No, no, no, I don`t want to go to my own hotel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VAN DER EEM (through translator): This guy really knows what he`s doing. Did he weigh her down to make her sink?

VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): No, no. I don`t think so.

VAN DER EEM: You don`t even know that?

VAN DER SLOOT: No.

VAN DER EEM: Did he ever tell you how he did it?

VAN DER SLOOT: Of course he did.

VAN DER EEM: How did he do it, then?

VAN DER SLOOT: He just went out into the sea further and he just dumped her.

VAN DER EEM: He just threw her overboard, just like that? You`ve been really lucky, you know. No (DELETED) you`ve really been lucky.

VAN DER SLOOT: That`s what I say. I`ve been very lucky.

VAN DER EEM: Really lucky that he has been so stupid to do this, you know?

VAN DER SLOOT: I was even able to sleep that night. I just went home and went to bed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That is video from ABC`s "20/20." It`s Joran Van Der Sloot emotionless about 18-year-old Natalee Holloway he says was dumped at sea.

Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us, as you know, Holly Hughes, prosecutor out of Atlanta, defense attorney Gwen Lindsay-Jackson out of New York, along with Alan Ripka, also defense attorney.

What`s their best shot, Alan? Today is the deadline, just a couple of hours ago, for the defense to stop the re-arrest of the judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot. What`s their best try at suppressing this audiotape, this videotape secretly recorded, and keeping him out of jail?

ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, indicating that it`s an unreliable confession and that the individual who was driving the car used fraud to get it and he was working on behalf of the authorities and that this was a set-up, and it`s an unreliable confession.

GRACE: OK. Holly Hughes, correct me if I`m wrong, but even according to the U.S. Supreme Court, even police officers and detectives can use trickery to get a confession.

HUGHES: Absolutely, Nancy. And there is no state action here. I mean, this...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: ... an ex-con from using trickery? Nothing!

HUGHES: Absolutely. This guy was out on his own. He wanted to break the story. He`s a reporter. He wanted to make news for himself, that`s exactly what he did. And I think that gives it an air of authenticity. This guy`s rolling around with his friend, smoking on some weed. He doesn`t have any reason to lie. As we all know, weed is going to lower your inhibitions. It`s not like cocaine. It`s not going to make you paranoid. You are going to tell the truth, and that`s exactly what happened. It`s absolutely admissible.

GRACE: Gwen Lindsay-Jackson, I think that Alan has a good point when he suggested that the defense at least try to say that this guy, Van Der Eem, the guy with the souped-up SUV with all the recording equipment in it -- that he was acting as the arm of the state. Is it true? No, of course it`s not true. But that won`t stop the defense from arguing it, that the police detectives wanted this confession, that they knew it would be used in court, and they went out and got it.

GWEN LINDSAY-JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They`re going to argue that this was a de facto arm of the state. I don`t know how successful that`s going to be. But then again, they`re also going to argue that the tape itself was so unreliable, that the information in the tape -- I mean, just...

GRACE: What`s unreliable about it?

LINDSAY-JACKSON: Well, the inconsistencies about the telephone call that doesn`t add up. He made a telephone call to this -- using this phone that apparently he could not have used. They`re going to try to point out that the tape was so unreliable that he had to have fabricated it.

GRACE: OK. Holly Hughes, there are so many more inconsistencies. A, Natalee`s missing, just like he says. Natalee is most likely dead, like he says. Everything else about his story jibes with the truth.

HUGHES: That`s exactly right, Nancy. And let me point out, too, they`re not going to successfully argue that this was an arm of the police because the police had officially closed the investigation months earlier. It was done, according to the police.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BETH HOLLOWAY, NATALEE`S MOTHER: when I hear Joran talking about her like that -- my gosh, he just -- you know, first you want to come through the TV and I want to kill him, I mean, and peel his skin off his face. And I think of the utter disregard he had for Natalee. And look what he`s done to his friends. Look what he`s done to a country. Look what he`s done to everyone. It`s just despicable what he has done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUG TWITTY, NATALEE`S STEPFATHER: Paulus is the man -- I promise you, Paulus is involved in this. I truly believe it. I just do. I met the man face to face the night we got down there. And he had no idea we`d show up that quick. And he just -- he was the most rude person I`ve ever seen. And you know, I`m a father, too, and no matter what my -- you know, and I love my son to death, but if he did something wrong, I would stand up to it and we`d just have to deal with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Tonight, the deadline for the defense in the Natalee Holloway case to stop the re-arrest of the judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot and to somehow suppress a very long videotaped confession he gave under secret surveillance.

Let`s go to a special guest joining us, Dr. Marcella Fierro. She is the former chief medical examiner in Virginia and also the founding board member of the Virginia Institute of Forensic Science and Medicine. It`s an honor to have you. Thank you for being with us. Doctor, if someone regularly smokes marijuana, would it continue to have a huge impact on what they say?

DR. MARCELLA FIERRO, FMR. CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER, VIRGINIA: Well, it certainly would make them more likely to say things that they wouldn`t ordinarily say. On the other hand, if you`re talking in terms of a confession, folks don`t usually confess if there`s a prime suspect.

GRACE: Do you believe it would be a stretch for Van Der Sloot`s attorney to argue it was all a big lie because he was smoking pot?

FIERRO: I think it would be a stretch.

GRACE: What effect does pot physically have on the nervous system?

FIERRO: Well, it`s a depressant of sorts.

GRACE: Depressant of sorts.

Joining me right now, Tracy Sabo, CNN reporter. Tell me about today`s deadline, Tracy.

TRACY SABO, CNN PRODUCER: What we`re told is that the defense, Joran`s defense team, had until about midday today in order to actually file paperwork with the appellate court in Curacao. As you know, this week, the prosecution has been turning in all their paperwork, and we were expecting the appellate court to rule sometime on Friday. But we are told that the defense has today to file paperwork in order to appeal any type of decision that that appellate court might make in favor of the prosecution, with of all the evidence they`ve gained on their own.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TWITTY: Joran has lied from the beginning because as soon as we got there, Beth stayed in the car, we walked up to the house with the police. And we had a picture of Natalee, her senior picture, and showed it to Joran, said, Have you seen this girl? Nope, never seen her before in my life. You know, so he`s lied from the beginning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER DE VRIES, DUTCH INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Patrick was asking him, How can you be so sure that Natalee was dead? And then he said, Well, I wasn`t. She was just not moving anymore. She wasn`t ticking (ph) anymore. And so I thought she must be dead. And then he dumped her into the ocean. And you know, that`s really shocking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Tonight, the deadline for Joran Van Der Sloot`s defense to file motions to stop his re-arrest.

Out to one of Natalee Holloway`s closest relatives, her aunt, Linda Allison. Linda, again, thank you for being with us. What was your reaction when you finally saw this secret videotape of him confessing?

ALLISON: I am so glad that I was able to at least see things on the Internet and kind of get myself ready for the actual showing of those secretly recorded tapes because it was so appalling to see that in the very beginning. And of course, the range of emotions from anger to just being very upset and very -- it was very hard to watch that and hear him call Natalee the names that he did, and his total lack of humanity of trying to get help for her instead of trying to dispose of her body. I mean, you know, that`s all he had in his mind at that point was to get rid of her body, instead of trying to get help. And then just to hear his callous nature about him, with no regrets and no remorse.

GRACE: Tracy Sabo, what is next?

SABO: ... rule, and that would be very important. Obviously, if they rule in the prosecution`s favor and they re-arrest Van Der Sloot and bring him back to Aruba, they will again have a chance to question him in custody. They have said over and over that...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A little past 8:00 on Tuesday night, the suspect showed up at the building, a doorman building, told the doorman he was there to see a doctor named Kent Shinbach, a psychiatrist. He went into the office that Shinbach shares with four other doctors, including Dr. Kathryn Faughey. Took a seat next to a patient, then at some point thereafter went into Dr. Faughey`s office. It is not even clear how long he was in there. But he attacked her using a meat cleaver and a knife.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A well known, a beloved psychologist hacked to death, there is no other way to put it, in her upscale East Side penthouse office suite. Long story short, the perpetrator is on the run as we speak. It seems as if he had targeted this psychologist.

Out to Glenn Schuck, reporter with 1010 WINS. Glenn, what exactly happened?

GLENN SCHUCK, REPORTER, 1010 WINS: Well, what we know is, again, you`re seeing the video there, that this man came in the front door of this building. It`s a luxury high rise on East 79th Street. He came in, made his way past the doorman who said he had never seen this fellow before. And a little short time later, then there were screams and yells and, from what witnesses tell me, just a terribly bloody and violent scene inside that office.

This suspect runs out of the office instead of going out the front door. He goes down a basement, again, as you`re seeing on the videotape, goes out a back alley and into the night on to York Avenue.

GRACE: You know what? We can -- learn a lot from just what Glenn Schuck has told us. Number one, he waited for a period of time there in the waiting room. Somewhere between 30 to an hour, as if he had an appointment. He gave the name of a different doctor in order to get to Dr. Kathryn Faughey, age 56. He came well armed, including entering this luxury office suite with one of these, a meat cleaver.

In fact, the attack was so vicious, as Glenn Schuck has just told us, that the cleaver was actually dented, which says to me, Dr. Marcella Fierro, that the cleaver must have hit a bone?

DR. MARCELLA FIERRO, FMR. CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA: Yes, the cleaver was actually dented, and I think that`s probably a safe assumption unless it hit some other item in the room. But likely, it was bone.

GRACE: You know, another thing -- to Donald Schweitzer, former detective there in Santa Ana, Donald, he knew the layout of the building exceptionally well. He knew to wait there in the entrance area because if he ran through or forced his way in, the doorman might call for back-up. He knew to wait. He knew to give someone else`s name that worked across the hall from his intended victim. And he knew how to get out a back entrance all the way from a high rise, out on to - out to the ground, and out to disappear into the city.

DONALD SCHWEITZER, FMR. DETECTIVE, SANTA ANA PD: Looks very premeditated, Nancy. I would agree with you that it was thought out. He had a plan going in and he had a plan going out. And for that reason, it might be fairly simple for the law enforcement to find out who he is. This guy had a motive. He had a reason for being there.

GRACE: Have we been able to establish, Glenn Schuck, that this is one of the psychologist`s patients?

SCHUCK: Well, that was the buzz this morning. When I was there at 4:00 in the morning, everyone in the building that they had seen this fellow before. But again, the touch on the doorman, he insists that he hadn`t seen this man before. You`re seeing a description of the suspect. He`s saying he`s never seen this fellow before but there are several doormen at that building.

And Nancy, I think -- I want to touch on one of the parts if I could real quickly.

GRACE: Yes.

SCHUCK: What`s bizarre, in addition to the tragedy here, is that what he allegedly, sources telling me, had in his suitcases beyond the knives that he carried in were ladies` underwear, evidently, and adult diapers also in these suitcases. So that adds another twist to what exactly was going on here.

GRACE: OK. You know, I`m just a trial lawyer. You`ve really thrown me on a loop on that one. Ladies` underwear and adult diapers. I haven`t heard that combination since the astronaut went on a 900-mile drive to get a love rival to kill her.

Let`s go to a shrink. Psychologist Caryn Stark is with us tonight.

Karen, what, if any, safeguards do psychologists take to protect themselves from their own patient?

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, if you think that someone is violent, Nancy, it`s really important that you report it. If you think that they are dangerous to themselves or someone else, that`s ethically what you have to do, report it so. I wonder if she, in fact, thought this person was violent. I doubt it. You`d want to get back up. You`d want someone to know that this might be happening. It`s hard to believe that she would allow something like this.

GRACE: Well, another issue is people say they recognize him. He could be the delivery man from the grocery store, from the pizza parlor, from the drugstore. Everything is delivered in New York City. So this guy doesn`t necessarily has to be a patient. He could be an ex-suitor. He could have a crush on her, an obsession on her. He -- she could have treated his wife, his sister. Who knows how this guy is connected to the deceased, Dr. Kathryn Faughey, age 56?

Out to the lines, Julie in California. Hi, Julie.

JULIE, FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for taking my call. I`m thinking that this man is the spouse or has something very big in his life riding on her determination regarding the case, either a review for court or the input that she might have been giving a spouse, whether or not to continue a relationship.

GRACE: You know, it had to be. I don`t know, though, Julie. Because if the guy was mentally imbalanced to start with, it could have been something minor that set him off. But an attack with one of these? A meat cleaver? An attack so vicious that you dent the meat cleaver during the attack? I mean, this thing is solid.

Back out to the lines. Brian in Canada. Hi, Brian.

BRIAN, FROM CANADA: Hey, Nancy, it`s Brian. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

BRIAN: I just want to say you look fabulous. And myself and Suzanne in Canada think you and your kids are great.

GRACE: Thank you, thank you very, very much. They`re watching the show right now. Thank you.

BRIAN: Fabulous. My question is, to you, in a lot of schools and private clinics in Canada and in the U.S., they have metal detectors. Why -- I can`t believe that this man wouldn`t have some kind of security if he knew in the profession that he is in that this could happen.

GRACE: Yes, and take a look in this building. Absolutely no medical detector -- metal detector. You are just seeing surveillance video that was released today. There is the suspect going up the stairs just before the deadly attack dragging behind him a suitcase on wheels, which we learned was full of nine knives, rope, duct tape, ladies` underwear, adult diapers -- now there is a concoction -- leaving behind the body of Dr. Kathryn Faughey, age 56.

I want to go back to Glenn Schuck with 1010 WINS.

Glenn, from what I can see, this building, which is in a very affluent area of the city, had no metal detector, had one doorman sitting there. Correct?

SCHUCK: That`s correct. You know what? A lot of the people there are very concerned. Again, this is a high-rise building in an affluent area with a lot of young children. There`s calls now from these residents here that we`re talking to meet today. They want to talk to the mayor, the city council. They wanted to know why offices like this are allowed in residential buildings. And they`re very common in New York City but I think you`re going to hear now an outcry to try and change that and limit the amount of access that the people coming and going have into this type of buildings.

GRACE: To Sheeba in Illinois. Hi, Sheeba.

SHEEBA, FROM ILLINOIS: Hey, sweetie, you look wonderful tonight. My question is, what type of patients did she see? Did she see like bipolar or did she see psychopaths in her (INAUDIBLE)?

GRACE: Good question.

Glenn Schuck, do we know? Yes, no.

SCHUCK: Yes. She was a relationship expert, quote, unquote, with a Web site looking for people with relationship-type problems. So these are the kind of issues she dealt with.

GRACE: Caryn Stark, can you really limit your practice though?

STARK: Well, you can limit it in terms of - I mean she was a cognitive therapist, Nancy. So she was dealing with stuff that she wouldn`t be working with psychopaths. It wouldn`t make any sense. And you could say, yes, I`m a relationship therapist if that`s what you choose to do.

GRACE: But can you ethically close your door to someone else with another problem if they come to you?

STARK: You`d have to refer them. Ethically, you wouldn`t -- you must refer somebody who gets in touch with you.

GRACE: Everybody, when we come back, is there a break in the case of a deadly shooting spree at upscale Lane Bryant ladies clothing store, Chicago suburbs?

And tonight, APB. All points bulletin for special moms and dads. If you know one who`s an inspiration to others, get that camcorder. Go to CNN.com/Nancygrace and click on i-Report. Enter that parent in the "Extraordinary Parent" contest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The desk was turned over. The blinds had been kind of ripped out partly off their, off their (INAUDIBLE) so to speak. There were papers strewn all about. So they - you walk in and it`s clear that you would, you know, you would conclude automatically there was a, you know, there was a fierce struggle for life inside that office.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In suburban Chicago, police say they have a tip that looks promising as they search for a suspect in the shooting deaths of five women. There is a look of the sketch that they released. Yesterday police also revealed that they were within seconds of capturing this gunman when that shooting occurred back on February 2nd. They say the officer was busy in the parking lot of an adjacent store 200 yards from the Lane Bryant store where the shooting happened. The officer was on an unrelated call. By the time he got to the store, the gunman was gone.

One woman did survive that shooting and gave police the description of the suspect that they`re using in that sketch.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Is there a break in the shooting spree deaths of five women? Six women were shot execution style. Only one survived, now under security around the clock. The killer still on the loose.

Out to Sharon McGhee, news director with WVON Radio, joining us from Chicago. Sharon, welcome. What is the latest? Is there a break in the case?

SHARON MCGHEE, NEWS DIRECTOR, WVON RADIO: Nancy, this has been a roller coaster of emotions for not only us in the media but what about the families? We reported on WBON this morning that indeed a suspect had been apprehended. What we know is that the U.S. Marshal`s fugitive task force did arrest a man last night on a parole violation for a drug conviction.

Now, of course, the Tinley Park Police did not come out and make this announcement. So we were going with the reputable newspapers in the Chicago area. And apparently, he may not be the guy. And I am so glad that you said in your opening, that there were six women shot. The only reason that we have this composite sketch is because one woman, who the killer apparently left for dead, is alive to tell the story.

So right now we know that this man is being questioned. He was taken into custody and apparently now the South Suburban Majors Task Force has turned him over for questioning to the Tinley Park Police.

GRACE: Sharon, this is what`s tough. You see this hairdo this guy`s got?

MCGHEE: Yes. I think.

GRACE: He`s got rows that are not your typical corn row. They`re separated into five or six very wide sections with a braid hanging down on one side with green beads and, Sharon McGhee with WVON, that doesn`t walk into your story every day. OK?

MCGHEE: It certainly does not, Nancy. And that`s why police were encouraging owners of barber shops and beauty salons to come forward to see if anyone had done this. And let`s face it. You haven`t seen these on corn rows since Venus and Serena Williams played tennis and were winning championship six or seven years ago.

What we do know, Nancy, is that Lane Bryant has stepped up to the plate. They`re offering a $50,000 reward. Crime Stoppers is offering another $10,000.

What we know about most criminals, Nancy, is that they`re not that bright and that they can`t keep their mouth shut. So we are hoping, praying that someone knows something and will cash in for the $60,000 to get this massacre, this masochist, Nancy.

What he did was destroy the lives of six women. What did they do on Saturday morning on February the 2nd? Like most women do. One of them went to work and the five other women went to do some shopping. And what did they get for it? They`re dead, Nancy. And it`s unacceptable. And of course, we were jubilant this morning when we recorded on WVON that they had a suspect in custody.

Right now we know he`s still being questioned. But I can tell that our guy was pulled out of a car last night who happened to be African- American, with corn rows but he`s only 5`2". They`re looking for a man that`s approximately 5`9" to six feet tall.

We have to give them credit. They are searching every black man with corn rows and so they can come they can come up with the person who massacred these women.

GRACE: To the lawyers, let`s unleash them. Holly Hughes, Gwen Lindsay-Jackson, Allen Ripka.

You`ve got a parolee in custody right now. The local police are saying, that`s not him. On another note, to Holly Hughes, yes, Lane Bryant is stepping up to the bat now with a reward. But they could have used that $50,000 for some surveillance equipment and some security in the store where all ladies shop.

HOLLY HUGHES, FORMER PROSECUTOR: That`s exactly right, Nancy. They are woefully inadequate when it comes to securing the safety of their customers. And I think this is going to be a wake-up call to retail America across the country that they need to get security.

GRACE: And Allen and Gwen, first to you, Allen, if this ever does go to trial, there`s going to be a huge eyewitness attack on the remaining, the sole survivor. If they had that surveillance video, it would be a clinch.

ALLEN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s right. Unless this killer left forensic evidence in the store, finger prints or anything, hair, then they`re not going to have any way to identify him other than the sole survivor who is under tremendous trauma.

GRACE: Allen, the hair is synthetic. Did you think that was real?

RIPKA: Well, whatever hair it was, Nancy, it would matched the hair on his head when they caught him.

GRACE: If it`s synthetic, Gwen Lindsay-Jackson, it would match the hair on about a million people`s head.

GWEN LINDSAY-JACKSON, FMR. MILITARY PROSECUTOR, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. And well.

GRACE: And I like the fingerprint part, Allen.

LINDSAY-JACKSON: Yes, the fingerprint, I think, I mean, we know that this guy used duct tape. If they can clearly show that, you know, they have somebody`s fingerprints that matched it - and I was actually encouraged when they had this parolee, because they said, you know, they have his fingerprints in the system if it matches. You know, they got him.

But apparently, that`s not the case. But - and as far as this eyewitness testimony goes, yes, she was traumatized. However, and I`m going to say this, even though I`m defense, you don`t forget. You don`t forget when you`re shot pointblank.

GRACE: You have a gun, right, in your face.

To Larry in Alabama. Hi, Larry.

LARRY, FROM ALABAMA: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my calls.

GRACE: Yes, sir.

LARRY: I love your show. You get to the point. You have very informative information. I want to know, do you think something like this would happen? Of course, these bad things happen now in our daily lives all the time. This, too, they come out when there`s a nationwide manhunt. Are they looking for this guy nationwide or just in the mid region there? On Illinois? And what are law enforcement agencies are really involved in this?

GRACE: Excellent questions.

To Donald Schweitzer, former detective with the Santa Ana P.D., how hard is it, how hard it is to go nationwide?

SCHWEITZER: Not hard at all. I guarantee that all the law enforcement agencies throughout the country has this person`s composite. They all know about it. But right now, it`s probably a local search. And he`s probably local. So that`s where it should be.

GRACE: I think you`re right.

Sharon McGhee, WVON Radio, has it gone past local beyond reach? Larry wants to know.

MCGHEE: Well, as from my understanding, it has not gone national, Nancy. They believe that this person who massacred these women in this Lane Bryant store on February the 2nd is still in the area.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: To "HEADLINE PRIME`s" Glenn Beck. Hi, friend.

GLENN BECK, "HEADLINE PRIME" HOST: Last night, Barack Obama swept the Potomac primaries and left Hillary Clinton a pretty big loser.

Hillary, the click is running out. You need turn around soon and I don`t really see how you beat Barack Obama, even in the general election unless you look at what he`s proposing. I`ll have more on that in just a bit.

And John McCain won last night as well. But the way he gushed during his speech, you`d think that he`s running with Mike Huckabee, not against him. More on their love fest.

Giant bunnies who want to eat Jews? Also coming up and the insanity of Roger Clemens in Congress. Coming up.

GRACE: Is there a break in a spree shooting at an upscale ladies clothing store Lane Bryant in Chicago suburbs?

To Dr. Marcella Fierro, former chief medical examiner in Virginia. The women were killed execution style. Did they suffer with wounds like that? Or was it an instant death?

FIERRO: Generally, that means that the wounds were close and to the head or to the back or to the chest. Wounds to the head usually render the person unconscious pretty quickly. It doesn`t always kill them immediately but it will render them unconscious. Wounds to the chest or back take a little longer.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Charles in Nebraska. Charles, quickly, what is your question, dear?

CHARLES, FROM NEBRASKA: Hello?

GRACE: Hi. What`s your question?

CHARLES: Hello?

GRACE: OK. I can hear you but I don`t think you can hear me.

Everybody, let`s stop, let`s stop and remember Army Private First Class Casey Mason, only 22, Lake Michigan, killed in Iraq. A paramedic and military police officer. Dedicated to serving others, awarded the bronze star and the Purple Heart. He had a smile that lit up the room. Loved golfing, riding, ATVs, basketball, politics. Dreamed of becoming president. Leaves behind grieving parents Jeffrey and Robin, brother Zachary.

Casey Mason, American hero.

Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for inviting us into your homes and happy birthday to a special friend of the show, Karin.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp, Eastern. And until then, good night, friends.

END