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Nancy Grace

Casey Anthony`s Former Roommate Speaks

Aired September 09, 2008 - 20:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 12 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. Investigators launch a new and intense search of a completely different area, heavy woods near UCF campus. Why? This as reports emerge a whopping $1.5 million offer on the table for mom, Casey Anthony`s, story.

Tonight, mom, Casey`s, roommate at the time little Caylee went missing is with us live. What was her demeanor? What did she say about little Caylee? We obtained a list of items found by police in mom, Casey`s, car, including a knife. Clothing and bones found in a nearby park. Are they connected?

And angry citizens take the law into their own hands, mounting their own searches for Caylee, protesting nearly around the clock, even digging through the Anthonys` trash for clues, while grandfather, George Anthony, facing possible criminal charges after an angry confrontation with two protesters. Sources confirm so much of the powerful solution chloroform discovered by the FBI in mom, Casey`s, car trunk, even the air in the trunk was saturated. Investigators announce forensic evidence of human decomposition in mom, Casey`s, car trunk. All indicators are it was 3- year-old little Caylee. Tonight, where is Caylee?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tot mom Casey Anthony met with her attorney for most of the day today, leaving one local Orlando station to theorize that Anthony may be afraid to speak inside her own home. The station suggests that Casey Anthony is remaining silent because she fears that the Anthony family home has possibly been bugged.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Curiosity -- that`s what tempted Lorraine (ph) to drive to the Anthonys` Hope Spring Drive home and take a bag of trash. She wanted to do her own Casey Anthony investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zanny the nanny is really Xanex. She drugged the baby so she could go out and party.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An independent searcher also reportedly uncovered some clothes and bones.



CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: What do you mean, it`s not your fault, sweetheart? If you`d have told them the truth...

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: I don`t (DELETED) know where she`s at. Are you kidding me?


GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the desperate search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey, why aren`t you trying to help investigators find your little girl?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want to slap her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just one curious woman named Lorraine, who was determined to help with the case by searching through the Anthonys` trash. Lorraine, knowing it was trash day, stopped by the house, grabbed one of the bags on the corner and put in the back of her SUV, determined to find something incriminating that Casey Anthony may have left.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If she`s on the computer 24 hours a day, maybe she printed stuff. Maybe they threw it away, they didn`t shred it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tot mom Casey Anthony attended a scheduled meeting with her attorney, Jose Baez, today. A local Orlando station is theorizing that the reason behind these long meetings is that Anthony feels her home may be bugged and does not want to speak inside the home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was also MySpace records talking about how her daughter had actually stabbed her in the back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "What does a mother get for giving her daughter all these chances? A broken heart. The daughter who stole money, lots of money, leaves without warning and does not let her mother know how to speak to the baby that her mother raised, fed, clothed, sheltered, paid her medical bills."



911 OPERATOR: So your daughter stole money from your car?

CINDY ANTHONY: I want to bring her in. I want to press charges.


GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk. Mark, tell me about this new search. It`s an entirely different area.

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Nancy, this may be the break we`re waiting for in this case, which has drawn on for -- since at least mid- July. Apparently, investigators looking into a wooded area, a heavily wooded area filled with water, near the University of Central Florida campus in east Orange County. They call it an area of interest. It`s an out-of-the way place, again, heavy wooded, lots of water in the area. And Casey at one time was apparently out there, which would have basically not been in her usual, everyday routine. Could they find the body of little Caylee Anthony in this wooded area?

GRACE: But wait. How do we know mom, Casey, was in the area? Was she pinged off her cell phone there?

WILLIAMS: They`re keeping that close to the vest right now. There`s no indication that they -- that they have cell phone records from that area. But it`s very -- it`s an area very similar to the Orlando International Airport, where searchers were at before, as well as Jay Blanchard Park, which is near the Anthony home.

GRACE: Well, let me ask you this. You say it`s near UCF campus. Didn`t she lie about attending classes, but wasn`t that at Valencia Community College?

WILLIAMS: Believe it was. As a matter of fact, you know, this is just her web of lies that she has, Nancy. She said she worked at Universal for a period of time. She hasn`t worked there for nearly three years. So this would just fit into her pattern of lying.

GRACE: Liz, let`s see that map. OK, so now cops are zeroing in on an area around University of Central Florida campus. They obviously have either gotten a tip that she was in the area or pinged her cell phone in that location.

Now, Mark Williams is with us, WNDB Newstalk. You state they`re searching, but it`s flooded. How can they search with all the water?

WILLIAMS: Well, they have various ways to do it. They have ATVs, which they can go in there. They can do foot searches. So those -- they have several different means of doing it because, remember, Sheriff Kevin Berry (ph), even though we don`t have Equusearch anymore to talk about, he donated money, and he has an airboat brigade that he has.

GRACE: Joining us right now, CNN affiliate WFTV`s Kathi Belich. Welcome, Kathi. What can you tell me about this new area cops are searching?

KATHI BELICH, WFTV: What I know about that area is, apparently, it was cell phone records that show that Casey had visited three areas, one near UCF, a couple of days after Caylee disappeared, and that those three areas were not normally areas she would frequent, which is why they caught the investigators` attention.

GRACE: Kathi Belich is with us. Kathi, when they say this is off the beaten path, in other words, not one of her regular haunts, how far away is it?

BELICH: Well, the area, as far as I can say, is easy to get in, easy to get out off of a toll road. But there are areas there that are wooded, somewhat remote, not a lot of traffic in those areas, much like the area near the airport, not a lot of traffic, remote, no obvious reason for her to be there, and again, certainly out of her routine.

GRACE: Take a look at this dense foliage we`re showing you right now. You can see how difficult it is for searchers to dig through this heavily wooded area. The news tonight, cops are now focusing on a brand-new area for search. There`s a heavily wooded and right now flooded area near University of Central Florida.

Back to Mark Williams. Mark, how far away is this new area they`re searching from her home?

WILLIAMS: From what I can gather, Nancy, it`s at least four to five miles. But it`s well within traveling distance by her car. So it`s not -- it`s not a far drive whatsoever.

GRACE: Weigh in, Mike Brooks.

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It sounds like the cell phone records are now coming into play in this case. We heard about it earlier in that area near Orlando airport.

One of the other things, too, Nancy, every time we`ve seen her car with evidence technicians around it, you notice that there is a paper underneath that car. One of the things they can do, if they were able to get to this area, is to take soil samples and up into the joint areas and see if it compares with the soil and the kind of terrain that`s where -- in the area where they`re searching right now.

GRACE: Everybody, we are taking your calls live. Big news tonight, the cops have now, apparently based on cell phone records, pinging, triangulating the particular phone calls someone makes from a cell phone -- when you use your phone, it bounces of a particular cell phone tower. They have now launched a new search in a heavily wooded area near University of Central Florida.

Everyone, with us tonight is a very special guest. Joining us tonight exclusively is a young man who was a roommate along with Caylee in the time -- along with little -- with Casey when little Caylee had gone missing. Thank you for being with us, Nate. This is the roommate of Tony Lazarro (ph). Nate, were you there in the apartment in the days following what we believe to be the time little Caylee went missing?

NATE, FORMER ROOMMATE OF CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, Miss Nancy, I was staying with Tony. I was in between leases, and we were going to get a new place as soon as his lease ended. So I was staying with him until his lease ended and we moved out. So I was there for the entire time that Casey was staying there full-time.

GRACE: Now, I`m talking about the time after Father`s Day weekend, around June 16 -- that`s a Monday -- and on.

NATE: Yes, ma`am, I was there.

GRACE: OK. What was Casey`s -- mom, Casey Anthony`s, demeanor?

NATE: I mean, she seemed like everything was normal. There was nothing that drew any red flags, certainly not on our end. I mean, no reason for us to be suspicious of anything. I mean, she went about her business every day. Some days -- you know, we`re in class 40 hours a week, Tony and I. We both go to a school that demands that we`re in class 40 hours a week, so we`re constantly in and out of the apartment.

But you know, when she was there, nothing seemed out of the ordinary. She always seemed like she had a smile on her face. You know, if there was laundry to be done, she would take care of that. You know, she would cook dinner sometimes in the evenings and...


GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. So while her daughter was missing, she was cooking up dinners for her new boyfriend?

NATE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: Like what?

NATE: I mean, just normal dinners, you know? She would make, you know -- for instance, I think one night she made pasta for everyone. Just you know...

GRACE: Did she ever mention over the pasta dinner that her 2-year-old girl was gone?

NATE: No, ma`am. She did not mention to us that Caylee was missing. We were under the impression that -- that Caylee was -- that she was with the nanny. When she would ask us certain questions, you know -- or we would ask her about it, then we would just move on because it seemed normal to us, she was with the nanny, she wasn`t at our place, so...


GRACE: Angry protesters nearly around the clock outside the Anthony home. That was a shot of one of them.

Everybody, with us tonight, a very special guest, Tony Lazarro`s roommate. He lived there with mom, Casey, after the time little Caylee went missing. Nate, thank you for being with us. You stated that she never once mentioned little Caylee was missing?

NATE: No, ma`am. She didn`t. There was a point where -- you know, we had asked her a couple of times, Hey, you know, how come we haven`t seen Caylee in a while, because when Tony and her first started dating, Caylee would come over to the house a few times, they would go down to the pool, or you know, whatever, Tony`s taking them out to dinner and stuff.

And so after a point, we -- she just hadn`t been coming around, and we even asked her, Hey, you know, how come you haven`t brought Caylee by lately? And it was always, Oh, she`s with the nanny, they`re at either the beach or they`re over at Disney World or they`re at Universal. And you know, to us, it is summertime. We were under the impression that Casey was working. So I mean, during the summer, children are, you know, off doing things, so (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: How often -- how often was Casey Anthony there at the apartment, every day?

NATE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: Every night?

NATE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: She spent the night there?

NATE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: With Tony Lazarro?

NATE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: And during that time period, little Caylee was not spending the night with her?

NATE: No, ma`am.

GRACE: Where would she say Caylee was?

NATE: She said that Caylee was at the nanny`s. But when she started staying with us full-time, she had said that, you know, there were some problems at home, she didn`t want Caylee being subjected to it.

GRACE: What problems?

NATE: I`m not exactly sure on the specifics. I`m not sure if it was problems between her parents or if she was having problems with her parents. I`m not exactly sure as to the nature of the problems -- but that she did not want Caylee to be subjected to the environment. So she brought Caylee -- she told us that she brought Caylee to the nanny`s and that she was going to stay with us in the evenings, which -- I mean, we`re an apartment that`s on a 24-hour schedule. There`s constantly people in and out.

So to us, it did not seem like a good idea to have Caylee at our apartment full-time, so we thought she was doing the good motherly thing. You know, she didn`t want to impose herself on the nanny also, so Caylee would stay there in the evenings, and she would stay with us in the evenings.

GRACE: And nobody thought it was weird that the little baby would stay, would spend the night at the nanny`s instead of with her mother?

NATE: Not really. I mean, a 22-year-old single mother -- I`m not sure as to the habits of what a 22-year-old...


NATE: ... single mother does every day. So we weren`t, you know, thinking along those lines as, Well, why isn`t she with her child every evening?

GRACE: Did she seem to have a job?

NATE: She did. Like, you know, we`re gone in class quite often...


NATE: ... so we don`t know if she was going actually to work. But she would, you know, bring home groceries from time to time. She didn`t seem like she was ever in need of money or anything like that. So it seemed to us like she had had a job.

When we would ask her about it, you know, if she was sitting home in the afternoon or something, she would, you know, say, Well, I`m working from my laptop today here at the house. And you know, she -- she told us she was an event coordinator. So those type of things -- it`s one of those things that you would think that someone could do with a laptop and a cell phone. They wouldn`t necessarily have to be in an office every time.

GRACE: Did she tell you guys that she was considering going back to college?

NATE: Yes, she had told us that.

GRACE: Where?

NATE: She had said that she had already attended Valencia for some time and that she was thinking about continuing her education at UCF.

GRACE: So she did say she planned to go to UCF.

NATE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: Are you aware that police are now searching heavily wooded areas there at University of Central Florida for little Caylee?

NATE: No, ma`am, I was not until just a few moments ago.

GRACE: You know, Nate, were you there the evening or the day -- I`m not sure of the timeline -- when grandmother, Cindy Anthony, shows up at Tony Lazarro`s apartment to find her daughter, Casey Anthony?

NATE: Yes, ma`am, I was there.

GRACE: What happened?

NATE: It was approximately late, late afternoon, early evening. Tony and I and Casey were all sitting on the couch. Tony and I were playing video games, waiting for the all-star game to come on for the evening. And there was a knock at the door.

GRACE: Well, hold on. Wait. Casey Anthony was sitting on the sofa, watching video games and waiting for the all-star game to come on?

NATE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: While her daughter is missing. OK. I was just getting the mental image. Go ahead.

NATE: And there was a knock at the door. Casey got up to answer the door. It was Amy (ph). I had never met Amy. I don`t...

GRACE: Amy Huizinga (ph)?

NATE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: Now, Amy Huizinga is allegedly the woman who loaned Casey Anthony her car and Casey Anthony allegedly took all her checks and wrote them to Target, to all over the place?

NATE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: OK. Go ahead.

NATE: So...

GRACE: So Cindy Anthony, Amy Huizinga show up at the door. What happens?

NATE: Well, just Amy showed up at first. All we saw was Amy.


NATE: Amy told Casey that she needed to speak with her, so Casey and Amy stepped outside...

GRACE: Did Casey Anthony look like she was upset?

NATE: Not right at that moment. But they walked outside to discuss something. I do not -- I cannot attest to what was actually discussed outside. They came back in the house, Amy and Casey, followed by -- who we did not know at the time, that that was Casey`s mother, but now we know. They were followed by Cindy Anthony back in. Cindy asked Casey...

GRACE: OK, let me get something straight. When Huizinga shows up at the door, she asked Anthony to come outside?

NATE: Yes, and talk to her.

GRACE: OK. Could you hear them or their raised voices?

NATE: No, ma`am. I -- we could not hear anything from that conversation.

GRACE: OK. So then they come back in, and with them is grandmother, Cindy Anthony.

NATE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: OK, then what happened?

NATE: Cindy asked Casey to get her stuff and to leave with her. And Casey, you know, said that she did not want to leave but she would go outside and talk to her. The three of them then exited the apartment, and that was the last time that we, either me or Tony, have seen Casey.

GRACE: Did you hear Cindy Anthony ask, Where`s Caylee?

NATE: No, she did not ask that question while she was at our apartment, no, ma`am.

GRACE: Did she seem upset?

NATE: She did seem a little upset.

GRACE: Cindy Anthony or Casey Anthony?

NATE: Cindy seemed a little upset.

GRACE: So did Casey Anthony say why she didn`t want to leave?

NATE: No, she just said -- her mother said, Get your things and let`s go, and Casey replied, I`m not leaving. If you want to talk, let`s go outside and talk.

GRACE: So during this time, did she ever ask you or her boyfriend, Tony Lazarro, to help find little Caylee?

NATE: No, ma`am.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Suzie in Arizona. Hi, Suzie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I want to thank you for everything that you do for victims.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, is there anything that law enforcement could have done differently or might learn from this case? I know they have very limited access to information because of this mother, but do you think they`ll learn anything from this?

GRACE: What about it? To Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, joining us out of California who put the bond up for Casey Anthony the first time. What do you think?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: I didn`t quite understand the question, to be honest with you. I was...

GRACE: Will law enforcement do anything differently?

PADILLA: No, law enforcement`s doing a great job. I`ve worked with law enforcement on things like this before. The toughest job they`ve got is the stonewalling going on by George and Cindy and Lee. They`re protecting Casey to the full extent, and it`s mercilessly. What they`re doing to the system right now, they`re just taking advantage of law enforcement.

GRACE: Did you hear about that $1.5 million book offer?

PADILLA: That was no secret when we left Orlando, that there was some secrets in the seven-digit numbers that were coming up. And when people were asking us about it, we were saying, you know, We heard the same rumor that you guys heard.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She acted absolutely like nothing had happened. It`s almost like Cindy handles her with kid gloves. George walks a wide circle around her. And Lee just treats her like a little sister.



GRACE: Welcome back. Joining us tonight is the former roommate of mom, Casey Anthony, during the time her little girl was missing. Nate, after you discovered that she is a person of interest in little Caylee`s disappearance, did either you or Tony Lazarro speak with her?

NATE: I have not spoken with her. To my knowledge, Tony has not spoken with her, either. However, I`m not 100 percent on that detail.

GRACE: Did police search your apartment?

NATE: Yes, ma`am, they have. They have searched twice, actually.

GRACE: Did you know what they were searching for?

NATE: The first time, they had asked if they could search to make sure that Caylee was not in the apartment. We allowed them to do that. The second time they searched the apartment, I was actually out of town for the weekend.


GRACE: That was mom, Casey Anthony, coming out of her home the second time she was arrested. She is out on bond again, and now we learn there is a $1.5 million offer for, apparently, a pay-per-view special, probably rolled in with book and TV rights.

What can you tell me about it? Natisha Lance is joining us there outside the home in Orlando, Florida.

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, actually, there is a $1.5 million offer on the table, Nancy. However, Casey Anthony`s camp is saying that they are not -- they`re just listening to these offers right now. Nothing has been taken up on these offers.

However, they are listening because they are trying to build a defense fund for Casey. So possibly if they don`t raise enough money for this defense fund, then maybe we can see some of these offers being turned around and her taking them.

GRACE: To Mark Williams, WNDB Newstalk, it`s my understanding that the Anthony camp has stated they don`t want to publicize these money offers.

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, that`s apparently it. However.

GRACE: Then why did they send out a press release?

WILLIAMS: Well, first off, they`re also building a Web site, from what we understand, according to Attorney Jose Baez` spokesperson, Todd Black, who`s from a Nashville PR firm, who showed up just a couple of days ago.

But apparently they`re building a Web site, looking for donations. Also, you know we.

GRACE: Donations?

WILLIAMS: For her defense fund.

GRACE: Her defense fund, as opposed to donations to help find Caylee?

WILLIAMS: That`s about it. You know, because, I mean.

GRACE: That`s some good PR advice.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes, well, let me tell you one other thing that I just found out is that the "Orlando Sentinel" is reporting that Mark DeJane(ph) who`s been retained by Cindy and George Anthony will be going to New York City, obviously, on a publicity trip, starting tomorrow, hoping to drum up some more interest nationwide if they don`t have enough already.

GRACE: Interest in what?

WILLIAMS: Interest in finding Caylee, Nancy.

GRACE: Interest in finding Caylee.


GRACE: Well, that I can understand, but trying to raise money for a defense fund, as opposed to money to get volunteer searches and continue to search for little Caylee? I find that very disturbing.

We are taking your calls live. Let`s unleash the lawyers, joining us tonight, Susan Moss out of New York, Raymond Giudice out of Atlanta, and joining us from Las Vegas, high-profile Seattle lawyer, Anne Bremner.

Susan Moss, this is a fine mess.

SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: Oh, my goodness. After her daughter goes missing instead of looking, she`s cooking? This is outrageous. It`s unbelievable. At least she wasn`t cooking up a good alibi, because she has none.

The facts in this case continue to mount. The air samples showing that there was a dead body in that car, the chloroform, all of the hits by the cadaver dogs -- all of the evidence is coming together and it`s pointing to one person, mom, Casey.

GRACE: What about this pay-per-view deal, Ray Giudice, $1.5 million?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, there`s no law that prohibits her from gaining any profit from this money prior to conviction of any crime, and of course, she has not been convicted.

So they may be negotiating. I tend to believe that that`s not going to be fruitful for them. The last thing you want to let this woman do is give any kind of interview or public statement.

This case -- and I think Susan is right.

GRACE: Come on, Ray.

GIUDICE: The circle of closing.

GRACE: She blabs every time she gets a chance. Why not get paid for it? I believe that`s the attitude. Did you hear what that body guard said last night? Blah, blah, blah.

GIUDICE: Hey, Nancy, as her defense lawyer, I`m trying to keep her from getting convicted and I think Susan is right, the circle is closing.

GRACE: Well, Anne Bremner, my point is, she yacks every chance she gets. In fact, the theory is, she spends all day -- I think it`s from 10:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m., something like that -- shacked up at the lawyer`s office, yacking, yacking, because they`re afraid the home is bugged.

ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, they`re probably yacking about the book. But the thing is, Nancy, I wouldn`t leave my dog with her for the weekend, but that`s not enough to show that she`s a murderer of her own child.

GRACE: You know, I want to go back to Susan Moss on the possibility of a pay-per-view special. I guess that would be an interview with her, where she goes around and around and around.

Have you heard those phone calls? I mean, she never makes a point and she always has a very detailed answer.

MOSS: If she takes this mill for her divorce -- this defense till, it`s going to be -- it`s going to cause the entire jury pool to absolutely despise her. Maybe she`ll take that money and try to pay someone to act as Zenaida Gonzales because that`s the only chance she has.

GRACE: You know, to Lauren Howard, psychotherapist -- Lauren, what do you make of asking for money for a defense fund as opposed to money to help search for Caylee?

LAUREN HOWARD, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: There`s nothing to make of anything that has any sort of substantial understanding. The thing that is most disconcerting about this case is this dysfunctional mother/daughter relationship that has begot an obviously dysfunctional mother/daughter relationship.

We -- there`s no -- no question in anybody`s mind that the mothering that went on of Caylee was not appropriate. Who`s responsible? Is Caylee responsible? Is Cindy responsible? And why is Cindy taking cover?

Why is everybody running for cover? Money to find Caylee? Do these people want to find Caylee? I don`t think so, Nancy.

GRACE: Well, I`m convinced that Cindy and George Anthony do want to find their daughter. As far as Casey goes, absolutely not. I agree with you on that.

I want to go back to Nate. This is Tony Lazzaro`s roommate, and Casey Anthony`s roommate during the time little Caylee went missing.

Did you see any change, Nate, in her demeanor before June 16th and after June 16th?

NATE, LIVED WITH TOT MOM CASEY ANTHONY WHEN CAYLEE WENT MISSING: No, ma`am, no change in her everyday demeanor at all. She didn`t seem -- you would think that even when we asked her, you know, why haven`t we seen Casey -- Caylee at all, you would think that a mother dealing with a missing child underneath that stress would, you know, break down at some point.

And, you know, there was nothing, no changes that we noticed in her behavior at all.

GRACE: Nate, what was her explanation as to the car running out of gas that very last time? Didn`t she have some elaborate explanation to Tony Lazzaro?

NATE: I`m not exactly sure. I don`t know what her story was to him about the car. I just know that Tony had left that morning at approximately -- between 11:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m., and I don`t know exactly when, and he went and picked her up want but I never asked what exactly was wrong with the car.

She never asked us to go down there and look at it or anything like that.

GRACE: And so every night that little Caylee was missing, she would be there at the apartment, go out partying, cook dinner, troop off to the back bedroom to Tony Lazzaro, wake up the next morning, have a cup of coffee like nothing is wrong.

NATE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: OK. We are taking your calls. To George in Florida, hi, George.

GEORGE, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hey, Nancy, I would like to personally thank you for the awesome work that you do.

GRACE: Thank you.

GEORGE: But my question is, with the money that was stolen or, you know, the money that she acquired from the Target or (INAUDIBLE) or whatever it was, did anybody trace what she did with that money or investigate what that money went to? Did she pay somebody off? Did she buy chloroform? But definitely didn`t buy gas, but, you know.

GRACE: She certainly did not buy gasoline, George. That`s true.

To Kathi Belich with CNN affiliate WFTV -- Kathi, what do we know about her spending habits?

KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE WFTV: The only thing I can tell you -- one thing that I have heard was that she bought things that you would expect a 22-year-old woman to buy. I don`t -- you know, I have no information that she bought anything out of the ordinary, or that there`s evidence that she bought anything out of the ordinary, based on credit card receipts.

GRACE: I mean, Kathi Belich, let`s take a look at -- from whom she stole. Running up her parents` credit cards, stealing from her friend, Amy Huizinga, even going into her grandmother`s fund for her assisted living home.

I mean, there`s no telling how many people this woman ripped off, in an effort to keep up a lifestyle, as if she were working.

BELICH: Yes, that`s a good guess, as to why she was stealing that money. And I believe the big argument that occurred the weekend before Caylee disappeared was, in fact, about that money that Casey had stolen from her grandmother and grandfather`s account that, as you said, was being used to pay for his assisted living after he had a stroke.

Somehow, I understand that Cindy was able to talk the grandparents not into prosecuting, but there was still a lot of tension over that and I think Cindy -- between the money that was stolen from her and her parents, that was the -- you know, the.

GRACE: That was the straw that broke the camel`s back, you`re absolutely right.

With us Kathi Belich.

And to Mark Williams, isn`t it true that Cindy Anthony actually went to a therapist about how to deal with her daughter being such a mooch?

WILLIAMS: Yes, she did. She is a health professional herself, but she had to go to a counselor. And the deal was, the counselor advised her to take -- to kick Cindy -- Casey out of the house and then to take custody of Caylee.


CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: Casey is not on trial. Right now, Caylee is missing. And that`s the word that I want to get out to everybody. Caylee is missing.

This little girl needs to be found. So instead of thinking that she`s already dead, there`s no answer yet. We have to find that answer.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just been a crazy scene at the Anthony home. There are lots of protesters out there. I mean I`m talking about just people filling the sidewalks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re not just out here because we want to be, we`re concerned for, you know, the toddler.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What kind of people are you? Where do you come from? Where in the hell do you all come from? Ohio? You need to go back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She killed an innocent angel baby, just so she can go out and be a party girl. I just want to slap her and the parents.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For a mother not to even come out in the front yard to come to a candlelight vigil, it`s unforgivable.


GRACE: We are taking your calls live and joining us tonight, the roommate of mom, Casey Anthony, during the time little Caylee went missing.

Back to Nate, joining us from Orlando, Florida. Nate, tell me about your observations of little Caylee.

NATE: Caylee is a very sweet girl, very smart girl. You know, Dora Explorer is her favorite TV show. So, I mean, she can count to 45 in Spanish, which, you know, Casey told us that she`s learned from watching Dora the Explorer.

She loved to watch "The Pink Panther," I mean we would -- the few times that she was over, we would sit there in the living room from time to time and watch "The Pink Panther" or "Dora the Explorer."

She would sit down -- I`ve sat down with her, you know, at my laptop before and she can -- you know if you asked her to type some letters out she can find those letters from the keyboard and type them out, which to me is -- I mean, a really smart girl for, you know, a 2-and-a-half-year-old, a 3-year-old, and, you know, she was cool.

Her favorite phrase that she would say to everyone walking in, be "What up, dude?" That was the phrase she always uses. It`s "what up, dude?" Anytime anyone would come in the door, "what up, dude?"

And I distinctly remember one time where Cameron and I -- another friend of ours -- we had fallen asleep in the living room for an afternoon nap and she had gotten Tony`s drum pad that he`d given her and a set of drum sticks, and she sat there in the living room, tapping on the drum pad, just kind of chanting, "wake up, Nate, wake up, Cam," I mean just an adorable child.

GRACE: When you learned she was missing, what was your first thought?

NATE: My first thought was, how can she be missing? She is supposed to be with the nanny? I mean, we never -- I mean thought that she was -- when they said, missing, missing as in missing now.

GRACE: Did you ever see the nanny?

NATE: No, ma`am, I`ve never met the nanny or spoke to the nanny.

GRACE: Did -- were you ever there when the nanny called Casey Anthony on the phone?

NATE: No, ma`am, I`m not sure who would call her.

GRACE: Did you ever observe Casey Anthony on the phone with the nanny, to your knowledge?

NATE: Not to my knowledge, no, ma`am.

GRACE: Did you ever see Casey Anthony drop the baby off with the nanny, or the nanny come pick her up?

NATE: No, ma`am.

GRACE: What did she say about the nanny?

NATE: That she had been using the nanny for a few years. You know, that she takes her over there during the day sometimes, if, you know, she had things to do. And just along that -- I mean just a typical, almost like babysitter that she would use and that she had been using for seemed like a fairly good amount of time.

GRACE: Very quickly, back to Natisha Lance joining us in Orlando, what can you tell us about the recent discovery of bones and clothing in a nearby park?

LANCE: Yes. Police are now looking at these bones. They think that it`s probably an animal. However, they are looking into them. And not only was it bones that was discovered, but also some clothing with these bones, too, Nancy.

GRACE: To famed forensic scientist, Doctor Lawrence Kobilinsky -- Kobe, can forensic experts distinguish easily between animal and human bones?

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Absolutely. Forensic anthropologists are trained to look at skeletons and make those determinations. I think it gets a little dicey, though, if the bones are only fragments of bones. Then they need to do more intense work. But there should be no problem identifying it as animal or human.

GRACE: And Kobe, if remains were found now of little Caylee, would we be able to tell whether she had been exposed to chloroform?

KOBILINSKY: Probably not. You know, if -- just in general, when a body is out in the field for a period of three months, there is no soft tissue. I don`t think any kind of toxicologist could make that determination.

GRACE: So it doesn`t stay in your tissue?

KOBILINSKY: Oh, no, in fact, it vaporizes and it`s gone quite rapidly.

GRACE: Do you believe, Kobe, that it is realistic that if Caylee were found now that she could be identified or that the cause of death could be identified?

KOBILINSKY: Well, again, just in general, when you`re talking about a body that has undergone decomposition and all you have left is a skeleton, it becomes very difficult to determine the cause of death. So that may be something that will never be determined.

GRACE: And back out to Mark Williams. Mark, I understand items in Cindy Anthony`s car were itemized. What was in her car?

WILLIAMS: Well, what was in her car was a backpack. It was a laptop computer, and it also included, of all things, a kitchen knife. And that kitchen knife was of interest to police, but that kitchen knife has since been washed.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the things we want to make sure is also that we don`t lose focus on the overall investigation, also, which is Caylee Anthony, a 3-year-old child that we`re trying to find.



GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Back to Raymond Giudice.

What about the possibility that their lines are tapped? There in the Anthony home?

GIUDICE: Yes, Nancy, I think law enforcement would be wise, go get a search warrant, do it properly, put a tap on that phone.

GRACE: What about it, Anne Bremner?

BREMNER: Absolutely. And they`ll probably try and do something to do additional wire tapping in the house. But it`s really hard to get as we know. But any suspect should think that the walls have ears.

GRACE: Well, I don`t think.

BREMNER: Especially.

GRACE: . a wiretap is that difficult to get, it`s just like a search warrant with probable cause.

GIUDICE: That`s right.

GRACE: It`s a little more invasive. Ray?

GIUDICE: That`s right. But just do it right so it`s not attacked by the defense.

GRACE: And Susan Moss, no way can you put a tap on the lawyers` office?

MOSS: Absolutely not. But if the lawyer is speaking while a third party is there, there`s no expectation of privacy.

GRACE: And Raymond, explain why no tap on the lawyer`s office?

GIUDICE: Oh Nancy, that`s just absolutely privileged. I mean that -- that would be a total violation of.

GRACE: So it`s privilege.

GIUDICE: It`s absolutely privileged.

GRACE: . for her to kick back and watch HBO at the lawyer`s office all day?

GIUDICE: It`s statutory privilege. It`s not even worth discussing. It`s -- nobody would go there.

GRACE: Bremner, what do you make of the $1.5 million offer? You know, in Florida, a convicted felon cannot make money off the crime, including child neglect.

BREMNER: But the problem here -- she talked so much. The only way she gets a good book deal is if she tells where Caylee is.

GRACE: Oh believe me.

BREMNER: It`s like a Catch 22.

GRACE: By the time that comes around she`ll have a whole new story, Anne Bremner.

BREMNER: Well, yes, he`ll go all the way around. But, Nancy, the only way they`ll give her the money is if it`s going to sell. And it`s not going to sell if it`s the same thing we`re hearing.

GRACE: Everyone let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Matthew Morris, 23, Cedar Park, Texas, killed, Iraq. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart and National Defense Service Medal.

Dreamed of college and being a teacher. Marrying his high school sweetheart. Loved motorcycles, video games, trips to the lake, trying out new barbecue recipes. Leaves behind grieving parents, Lisa and Glenn, one brother, one sister, fiancee Julia.

Matthew Morris, American hero.

Thanks to our guests, but our biggest thanks is to you for being with us and inviting us into your home.

And tonight, a special good night from Lawrenceville, Georgia, friend of the show, Chris. Isn`t he handsome?

Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.