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Nancy Grace

Anthonys Clash With Protesters Outside Home

Aired September 18, 2008 - 20:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 13 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Bombshell. We obtain mom, Casey`s, private phone records. They totally debunk mom, Casey`s, story, her timeline, her excuses, her entire interrogation. And it`s all caught on tape. It`s all in cold, hard, black and white phone records. She lied.

The phone records reveal not a single call to or from the so-called baby-sitter. Casey Anthony claims she spoke to both the nanny and little Caylee herself after Caylee goes missing. We now find out just who Casey Anthony was really calling during those crucial hours.

And tonight more bombshell audiotapes released. At this hour, investigators conducting interviews out of state. And just hours ago, mom, Casey, makes a stunning 911 call demanding police rush to the Anthony home. Why? Tonight, where is Caylee?


911 OPERATOR: 911. What is your emergency?

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: Yes. There are protesters still outside of our home. We already called about an hour-and-a-half ago. It took over 30 minutes for the officers to get here. The protesters are now banging on our garage door. They`ve still been throwing things at our windows and our garage. And now the media`s here. My father`s going outside and there`s going to be a fight. So please, can you send people down here because -- there`s now a physical altercation. You need to send vehicles immediately.

911 OPERATOR: It`s getting physical?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, it`s getting physical right now.

911 OPERATOR: Do you see them physically fighting?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, I see them physically fighting. We have surveillance.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony remains holed up in the house nearly three months after her daughter, Caylee went missing. She is charged with child neglect and lying to authorities in the case of her missing daughter.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about the baby`s dad`s parents? Would you have left her with them, too?

CASEY ANTHONY: I haven`t talked to them since we were probably 6 or 7 years old, since we were little kids. That was probably the last time I saw...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t have a phone...

CASEY ANTHONY: ... or talked to them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... number for them?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, I do not. I would not have let anything happen to my daughter, except I made the mistake of trusting another person with her. That`s it.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You -- you -- no, no. Stop. You -- you...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You -- you made...

CASEY ANTHONY: I`ve made a lot...


CASEY ANTHONY: ... of mistakes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve made a lot more mistakes.



GRACE: And tonight, NFL Hall of Famer turned double murder suspect O.J. Simpson back in court, facing life behind bars in a Vegas armed robbery. Hey, Simpson, buckle up! You`re not in LA anymore.


O.J. SIMPSON: Don`t let nobody out of this room. (DELETED)! Think you can steal my (DELETED) and sell it?


SIMPSON: Don`t let nobody out of here. (DELETED)! You think you can steal my (DELETED)?



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Judgment day for O.J. Simpson. Simpson back on trial, this time for allegedly leading a personal sting operation in a Las Vegas casino, holding up two sports memorabilia dealers at gunpoint.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get over there~!

SIMPSON: You think you can steal my (DELETED)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Backs to the wall~!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was trying to get past you!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walk your (DELETED) over there!~



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Simpson facing a slew of charges, including kidnapping with a deadly weapon, robbery with a deadly weapon and assault, charges that could put him behind bars for the rest of his life. But Simpson maintains he didn`t ask anyone to bring guns into the room and just wanted his stuff back.


GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. The desperate search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.


911 OPERATOR: Do you know if there`s any weapons?

CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t know if there`s any weapons. I know that my father`s outside, and so is my mother. So please send as many people as you possibly can.

911 OPERATOR: And who is this?

CASEY ANTHONY: They need to be arrested because this can`t keep happening. We already had six or seven officers out here (INAUDIBLE) 45 minutes, and they didn`t do anything. And these are the same punks that were out here all night throwing stuff at our house.

911 OPERATOR: OK. Stay on the line with me, OK?

CASEY ANTHONY: I absolutely will. But they need to hurry up. They were -- they just left not that long ago.

911 OPERATOR: The police officers?

CASEY ANTHONY: The police officers just left about 1:00 o`clock, yes.

911 OPERATOR: OK. Stay on the line.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That makes sense to you? It makes sense to you that, I`m trying to help the police find my daughter by giving them a bunch of bad addresses? That makes sense to you?

CASEY ANTHONY: That`s what I said, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, I`m asking you. That makes sense to you? My attempt...

CASEY ANTHONY: That part of it, no, not at all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My attempt to help him find my child -- OK, what I`ve done to help him find my child is I`ve given him a whole bunch of addresses to go to that are bad addresses. That`s what I did to help him try to find my child. That makes sense to you?

CASEY ANTHONY: I took him to the last place that I`ve seen my daughter. Besides that, I took them to other places that I`ve seen...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, when you brought us here -- when you brought us here to go look in your office, that was supposed to help us how? Because everything we`re doing here is about finding your daughter, OK? So I want you, OK, to explain to me how coming here to go to an office that you don`t have -- I want you to tell me how that`s helping us find your daughter.


GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams with WNDB 1150. Mark, what`s the latest?

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, the latest, of course, it looked like a battle royale overnight in the east part of Orlando last night. Around midnight, Casey -- or Caylee -- Cindy Anthony called 911, the dispatchers there, saying the protesters had been in front of her house and they started to throw things, of course, at the house. They turned out to be coins. The cops came out. They shooed the protesters away. About 1:30 then, the protesters returned again. Casey, Casey Anthony gets on the phone...

GRACE: Mark -- Mark Williams?

WILLIAMS: Yes, sir? Yes, ma`am?

GRACE: Aren`t you a little surprised Casey Anthony didn`t launch her own investigation for the next 31 days, like she did trying to find her missing daughter?

WILLIAMS: Well, you know...

GRACE: This is her demanding police, going all valley girl on the police on 911 -- I`m about to play it for you -- insisting they come back out there, Somebody needs to be arrested. But yet when her own daughter is missing, she didn`t call police?

WILLIAMS: She was very indignant on...

GRACE: Somebody throws a nickel...

WILLIAMS: ... that phone call...

GRACE: ... at their house and they call police?

WILLIAMS: Yes. And she sounded very indignant on those phone calls. We`ve all listened to them just a couple of moments ago, and I`ve heard the full version of them. And it`s, like, I won`t help you, but you`ve got to come out here and help me.

GRACE: You know what? You`re right. Let`s take a listen right now, Mark Williams.


911 OPERATOR: About how many people are out there?

CASEY ANTHONY: There`s at least a dozen people, and now two media vans. And there`s actually more people walking in from across the street.

911 OPERATOR: How many people are actually involved in the alteration?

CASEY ANTHONY: I already did! I already did!

Channel 2 news has everything on tape already.

GRACE: OK. How many people are involved in the altercation?

CASEY ANTHONY: There`s at least a dozen people. My mom`s out there now, spraying people with the hose, or my father is. They`re trying to get them off the property. They`re also trespassing on our property besides. I know...

911 OPERATOR: And it`s still happening? They`re still...

CASEY ANTHONY: They`re still standing on the property, yes. They`re out there recording it.

911 OPERATOR: Well, what about the physical altercation? Is it over?

CASEY ANTHONY: It`s already over. Yes.



911 OPERATOR: It`s no longer physical?

CASEY ANTHONY: It`s no longer physical, but it was already physical...

911 OPERATOR: Is this a protester, or is this a resident?

CASEY ANTHONY: It`s the protesters.

911 OPERATOR: No, I`m saying, Who are you?

CASEY ANTHONY: I`m the resident. We have everything on tape, thanks to Channel 2, and also our home surveillance.

911 OPERATOR: Was there any weapons involved?

CASEY ANTHONY: Not that I could see, no.



911 OPERATOR: Are both your parents outside?

CASEY ANTHONY: Both of my parents are outside, yes.

911 OPERATOR: Are they separated (ph) or are they throwing (ph) a verbal?

CASEY ANTHONY: It`s still verbal. And there`s still at least a dozen people on our property. Mom`s bringing my dad inside, so at least my parents aren`t outside, but their (INAUDIBLE) get taken care of immediately.

911 OPERATOR: Are they inside now?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, my parents are inside right now.

911 OPERATOR: What happened?

CASEY ANTHONY: Both of my parents were hit by two of the protesters. As you heard from both my parents, Channel 2 has it on video.




CASEY ANTHONY: So can we get people out here immediately.

911 OPERATOR: There`s somebody on their way. I just need you to stay on the line, OK?

CASEY ANTHONY: OK. I`ll stay on the line until somebody comes. No problem.

911 OPERATOR: All right, we have several units on the way.


911 OPERATOR: Just stay on the phone just (INAUDIBLE)

CASEY ANTHONY: I will. OK. Thank you. Well, one of the vehicles just left (INAUDIBLE) have the tags. He just left. You already have the tag.


CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, the guys just left. They just got in the car and left. I`m watching the street.

My mom went outside and got the tag information for the vehicle that had been out in front of our house for the last three-and-a-half hours.

911 OPERATOR: OK. So that`s the people that were involved in the physical?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, they were the people that were involved in the physical altercation. We have the make and model of the vehicle and also the tag numbers.

911 OPERATOR: OK. The make and model is...

CASEY ANTHONY: It was a white Ford Expedition.

911 OPERATOR: OK. Was it a Florida tag?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, it was a Florida tag.


GRACE: Man, for somebody that doesn`t know her nanny of four years` phone number, she sure can retain a lot of information about people she`s only seen for a few moments.

Back to Mark Williams, WNDB. You know, what I hate is that George and Cindy Anthony are having to live through this and go through all this torment. But there`s a way that Casey Anthony can get all these people to leave herself, and that is by telling the truth.

WILLIAMS: Well, you hit that right on the head. And when Casey made mention of the fact there were no weapons involved, Cindy Anthony was in a league of her own last night when she came out with an aluminum baseball bat. She was ready to do business. And this is the second time this week, Nancy, we have seen her in a confrontation. The first time, of course, over the weekend, when she and a woman got into it in front of their house. I mean, it`s -- the violence is escalating.

GRACE: You know, as much as I would love to continue talking about somebody pulling a water hose and throwing quarters at the house, let`s talk about the missing girl for a moment. Let`s talk about Caylee. Remember the 3-year-old girl that is missing? What did you learn in these phone records, Mark Williams?

WILLIAMS: Well, first off, the phone records that your show had obtained exclusively, and they shared them with me, was the fact, like, on June 9, Caylee -- Casey made a call to Zenaida that morning, and then on the 12th, she claims she received a call from Zenaida, and then July 15, allegedly a call from Caylee. Those records don`t match with her statements she gave to police at all, Nancy.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who`s going to be the next hurdle in your life, as far as trying to explain, No, I`m not a neglectful mother, I`m not, you know -- is it going to be your mom?

CASEY ANTHONY: Myself. No, it`s going to be saying that and proving that to myself every day.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She finally talks to her mother after five weeks. You`re -- you ask her where she is. You begin asking her these questions, and she just wants to talk about the book. She`s happy. She`s not worried, doesn`t seem upset.

CASEY ANTHONY: She`s always like that. You can even ask my mom. She`s the same way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Let me go back to the -- when was the last time you didn`t see her for five weeks? When was the last time something like this happened, where she was gone and you didn`t see her for five weeks? The last time this happened when?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so this is the first time, OK?

CASEY ANTHONY: This is the first time I`ve been away from her for more than a day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. This is the first time you`ve ever been away from her for more than a day, and she wasn`t a little bit upset...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... when you talked to her on the phone that day.

CASEY ANTHONY: She wasn`t the least bit upset when I talked to her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She went on about, You know I miss Mommy, none of that. I just -- she talked about -- like you said, she talked about that book and all that stuff, right? That`s it?

CASEY ANTHONY: And when I asked her to give the phone to another adult, to somebody else, she was fine. She was willing to do it, but the phone hung up. She doesn`t hang up phones.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to go through this, and I want you to stop me at the part that isn`t the truth, OK? You take your daughter and you drop her off on June the 9th, OK...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... at somebody -- at a baby-sitter`s house, OK? Now, this is a baby-sitter that lives at this apartment, OK, that`s been vacant...

CASEY ANTHONY: I dropped her off at that apartment.


CASEY ANTHONY: At those stairs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, you just walked her -- you dropped her off and...

CASEY ANTHONY: I walked her to the stairs. That`s where I`ve dropped her off a bunch of other times besides just that day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And when you dropped her off, who took her at that point?

CASEY ANTHONY: Zanny did. She took her at that point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you left her in Zanny`s care...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... on June the 9th, OK? So far, that`s right?



GRACE: Do you think if you`re talking about the last day you ever saw your daughter alive, you could get the date straight? We already have placed little Caylee at her grandparents around Father`s Day, which was the next week.

Not only that -- out to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter out of Sacramento, California, scheduled to meet with investigators tonight. Mr. Padilla, we have combed through this thick stack of phone records, Casey Anthony`s personal phone records of her cell phone. That is all complete BS, complete, total. Not a shred of it is true. Not one phone call -- and it`s about an inch thick -- not one call in here is to a Zenaida Gonzalez. There`s no incoming call from Zenaida Gonzalez, not on that day, not on any day.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: That`s absolutely correct. She just, you know, made this person up. There just happened to be a person with that name that went to the Sawgrass on the 17th of June, and she`s been running with it ever since. I even provided a children`s storybook today, which is "Double Double Trouble," or something to that effect, and it has to do with Zanny who was a baby-sitter for a family. And like I say, I provided it to the FBI agent that`s here from Orlando to explain to him that that`s where I think she picked up that name of Zenaida Gonzalez. Zanny the baby-sitter, Zanny the nanny.

GRACE: You know, it`s incredible where this is all coming from. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Peter Odom, veteran defense attorney out of Atlanta, Georgia. Also with us, trial lawyer Richard Herman in New York.

To Richard Herman. I don`t know if you`ve gotten a chance to come through this inch stack of phone records -- no such thing as Zanny Gonzalez. No incoming calls from Zenaida Gonzalez, no outgoing, no nothing. Especially disturbing is what she tells cops, which we just played for you, Richard and Peter -- her telling cops with a straight face she called and put Caylee on the phone, Caylee was talking about a book she read. That call didn`t happen.

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, you know, maybe the phone was in someone else`s name. Not everybody has a phone in their own name. I don`t know...

GRACE: No, no! Wait! Before you say anything else, OK, just try and make it believable, just a little.


HERMAN: Not everybody who uses a cell phone has that phone registered in their name.

GRACE: It`s her phone! This is her only phone! All that stuff about a Blackjack extra phone that she swapped the SIM card, that was a lie, all right? She said she lost it at Universal. She was at Universal, like, four years ago.

HERMAN: Look, she`s a serial, compulsive liar. Everything she says is all over the place.

GRACE: I don`t care!~

HERMAN: She`s blown a fuse...

GRACE: Don`t care if she`s lying. All I care is about is why is she lying about where the little baby is?

HERMAN: She can`t tell the difference between the truth and a lie right now. She`s gone, Nancy. It`s ridiculous. Any shrink will tell you that on her.

GRACE: Peter Odom...

HERMAN: Bethany will tell you that.

GRACE: Peter Odom, insanity is when you don`t know wrong from right. If she didn`t realize what she had done is wrong, she wouldn`t be lying about it. That defense is not going to work~!

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, all I can -- and I`m no expert on psychology, but I can tell you this...

GRACE: Well, you better be if you want to comment on this case.


ODOM: This woman has some kind of a mental defect or a disorder.

GRACE: I don`t care. I don`t care.

ODOM: She cannot tell the truth to save her life.

GRACE: All right. You know, you guys are very flippantly throwing around disorder, insanity. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Deal Breakers." Bethany, the definition under the law of legal insanity is you don`t know right from wrong at the time of the incident.


GRACE: If she didn`t know what she did with Caylee is wrong, she wouldn`t be lying about it right now.

MARSHALL: Well, pathological lying is associated with antisocial personality disorder. It`s not associated with mental illness like...

GRACE: Antisocial? Did you see how many boyfriends she had, including two cops? She`s not anti-social. She`s very social.

MARSHALL: Well, it`s -- I mean, it`s a misleading term. Anti-social means lack of regard and empathy for others. But the person with antisocial gravitates towards others as need-satisfying objects. The other thing they do...

GRACE: What do you -- what does that -- what?

MARSHALL: OK. It`s a double-edged sword. They see others as marks and...

GRACE: Here`s some more antisocial pictures. I hope you can see them on your monitor.


GRACE: That`s her with the stripper pole.

MARSHALL: I believe that what happened to Casey is that because of disorder, she targeted other people to meet her needs, whether it`s with her grandmother`s checkbook for the routing number, her mother to cook meals, to steal gas and money from her, her daughter -- to get rid of Caylee, so she could have an idealized life, and that the elaborate lying is because she understands...

GRACE: Bethany...

MARSHALL: ... on some level...

GRACE: Dr. Bethany...


MARSHALL: ... but not because she feels guilty.

GRACE: Bethany?


GRACE: Does she think that "Sex and the City" is real, that people really live like that? What idealized lifestyle does she want? Enough to get rid of her baby? I mean, I don`t know if you`ve had a chance to comb through these records...

MARSHALL: Yes, I have.

GRACE: ... but when I look through them and realize there`s not a single call in here to or from any nanny (INAUDIBLE) she`s conducting her own investigation.

MARSHALL: Well, it`s all to her boyfriends, her friends and her mom, and it`s all during lunch hour. It`s like she`s sitting around all day long, or the wee hours of the morning, waiting for them to have their lunch breaks, and then she starts calling. And it`s a minute, a minute, a minute. It`s like she`s a serial caller, trying to get other people`s attention, which is the fundamental basis of antisocial personality disorder. The person doesn`t attach to others, but they want all the attention from others.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These chairs aren`t very comfortable?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You lay way back.

CASEY ANTHONY: Exactly. I`m not comfortable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel like I`m going to...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the nanny ever take...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... the baby to the doctor?

CASEY ANTHONY: The only people that were on the list was myself and both of my parents.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you cause any injury to your child, Caylee?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you hurt Caylee or leave her somewhere and you`re...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... worried that if we find that out, that people are going to look at you the wrong way?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re telling me that Zenaida took your child without your permission...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and hasn`t returned her?

CASEY ANTHONY: ... the last person that I`ve seen with my daughter, yes.


GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Roberta in New York. Hi, Roberta.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. God bless you and your family.

GRACE: Thank you very much. I`m just -- you know what sticks in my head, Roberta, is that when Caylee was missing, she was cooking that big pasta dinner for her boyfriend and she sat there and ate it. If I didn`t know where Lucy was this minute -- I checked on her during the commercial break.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amen. God bless you.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, could it be possible that Casey sold her daughter for money, since she has not worked for years, and that`s why she`s saying that she feels that her daughter is safe/kidnapped? And she really knows who has her daughter.

GRACE: Mike Brooks, what about it?

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: You know, Nancy, that`s one of the theories that was going around in the very, very beginning. And you know, is that a possibility? Because her parents say she`s either in Texas...

GRACE: I don`t think so!

BROOKS: ... Puerto Rico or Mexico. But I don`t think so, Nancy.

GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) the phone bill? It had been discontinued. Did you see it at the top, it had to be a reconnection fee?

BROOKS: Unbelievable.

GRACE: She doesn`t have any money.

BROOKS: No. No. None at all.



CPL. YURY MELICH, ORANGE COUNTY INVESTIGATOR: We got to throw these lies outside. OK? All these lies are out. We know that everything you told us is a lie.

Tell us what happened to Caylee. Tell us what happened to Caylee.

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TOT CAYLEE: I dropped off Caylee. And that was the last time that I`ve seen her. I dropped her off.

MELICH: Where did you drop her off?

ANTHONY: I dropped her off at that apartment.

MELICH: No, you didn`t.

ANTHONY: That`s exactly where I dropped her off.

MELICH: No, you didn`t. And who`d you drop her to?

ANTHONY: With Zenaida.

MELICH: No, you didn`t.

ANTHONY: She`s the last person.

MELICH: No. That`s not true.

WELLS: The last time you saw her June 9th.

ANTHONY: Ninth. A Monday.

WELLS: Do you remember what you all did on June the 8th?

ANTHONY: It`s a Sunday.

WELLS: I can`t think of what I did, but anything significant?

ANTHONY: I think I might have been at Tony`s. I think my mom took Caylee up to see her parents in Mount Dora. She either took her up there that Saturday or that Sunday.

WELLS: What`s Tony`s.

ANTHONY: It`s my boyfriend`s apartment.

WELLS: Oh OK. So it was a day visit?

ANTHONY: For my parents or for my mom, yes. My mom goes up there and even just by herself or with my dad or I go up there with her.

WELLS: Your baby went up there with your mom to see her parents.

ANTHONY: See her great grandparents.



NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls live. To Gayle in Georgia, hi, Gayle.

GAYLE, GEORGIA RESIDENT: Hey, Nancy, how are you? You look so.

GRACE: I`m good. Thank you and thank you for calling in. What`s your question, dear?

GAYLE: Well, I just want to say I have a daughter right now at (INAUDIBLE) George Law School that wants to be a victim`s advocate next to you when she graduates.

GRACE: More power to her.

GAYLE: Oh, thank you. Thank you. My question is this, George and Cindy Anthony have known their daughter for a long time, her manipulations are nothing new to them. Since she -- since Casey is not helping them with the search as they had hoped.

Can`t they eliminate their problems with the protesters and so forth that they`re having by refusing to house her and coming off the conditions of the bond and sending her back to jail with a.

GRACE: To Leonard Padilla, can they come off the bond? Would they do that? You know them better than any of us.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, MEETING WITH TOT CASE INVESTIGATORS: Well, the thing about it is when we bailed out of Orlando it was because of the safety situation that was starting to increase and nobody believed us. And the thing about it is they can get off that bond any time, remove her, send her back to jail and it`s a lot safer for her and everybody else.

Now, something that came up earlier about the investigators that are out here right now. One thing that I do want to mention that took kind of a strange turn. The attorney for the young lady that was with Casey for nine days in the house and rode with her to the attorneys and back and forth, her attorney won`t let her discuss anything with the investigators that are here from the FBI and Orlando Sheriff`s Office because she didn`t discuss it with Orlando Sheriff`s Office before she left and he`s afraid that they might want to prosecute her for withholding information on some of the things that, I guess, Casey had told her.

So I just wanted to straighten that out over and above what I had said before about them coming out here to talk to everybody.

GRACE: So, Leonard, bottom line, the female security person may know something that actually jeopardizes her own legal stat us?

PADILLA: In talking to her attorney today, he said he could not, in good conscience, allow her to discuss anything, specifically some things that Casey had told her regarding Caylee, without talking to their bosses tomorrow in Orlando.

And so he -- she`s not going to have the meeting today that was supposed to take place and I didn`t want you to think that I lied to you about that.

GRACE: I didn`t.

To Robert Dick, former security with Casey Anthony scheduled to meet with investigators, when you are in Florida, did you ever talk to law enforcement about what Casey Anthony said, Robert?


GRACE: But you`re set to speak to them now?

DICK: Yes. I have no problem talking to them.

GRACE: When you compare what she told you about Zenaida Gonzalez and her sister Samantha taking the baby there at Blanchard Park, what impression does that leave you with? It`s a completely different story than what she told cops.

DICK: Well, I knew the entire thing was a complete lie. It`s just that my part in that is just to sit there and listen, and let her tangle this web even further. I mean, it`s just -- she`s not smart enough to keep ahead of her own lies.

GRACE: Why do you think, Robert Dick, that Lee Anthony gave you the phone records?

DICK: You know, that`s a big question in my mind. I mean it`s not.

GRACE: I mean, how did it get brought up? He just walked out of the house with the phone records?

DICK: Well, he knew -- I mean that`s something from an investigator`s standpoint is very important.


DICK: I mean we want to know who they`re calling. We want to know what`s going on.

GRACE: So you don`t know why he gave them to you?

DICK: I don`t. And that`s what`s troubling. I mean I don`t know why he thought of giving.

GRACE: Has Lee Anthony ever heard -- this is Casey`s brother -- ever heard of Zenaida Gonzalez before?

DICK: Well, if you look back at the police report even Amy says that she was talking with him and it was news to him that had only been brought up in the last 30 days and then he starts swearing to us that it`s been around for a year, year and a half. I mean, it`s all a complete lie.

GRACE: So Leonard Padilla, are you telling me that the brother Lee Anthony is backtracking and changing his story to protect his sister?

PADILLA: I think he`s backtracking to protect himself more than his sister because his involvement goes all of the way back to July 3rd when his mother asked him to go out and find Casey, and if you look on those phone bills there is a call in there that goes back to Lee`s own phone.

So it`s not like he hadn`t seen her, like he said in a couple of statements, in over 30 days. He had, obviously, contacted her. I don`t know if it was just strictly on the phone or in person, but Lee is also the one that talked to parents into not taking a lie detector test after they`d agreed to it and that is very damaging to his credibility from there -- if you have nothing to hide you take a lie detector test.

You`re not going to flunk it. The FBI knows what they`re doing, and there are specialists at that, but when Lee goes back into that house that day and tells the parents don`t take a lie detector test, he`s using that to include himself in not taking the test. He`s the one that didn`t want to take it.

GRACE: Let`s go out to a famed forensic scientist joining us tonight. Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, is it possible additional forensic testing could be ordered at this juncture? Do they have enough of the samples for more testing, do you believe?

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, again, there may be other evidence that we haven`t even heard about yet that they may have either tested or perhaps it`s yet to test, but there is certainly sufficient evidence for the state to begin their case.

The charge, of course, would depend upon whether or not they could prove that there was a dead body in the trunk, but there may be evidence that we don`t even know about, we haven`t heard about yet, and that`s a real, real possibility.

GRACE: To Mike Brooks, what do you make of the 911 call from Casey Anthony demanding police to come out right then to make an arrest? That`s a far cry from what happened when Caylee went missing.

MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Well, you know, they -- maybe we`re making a little bit of progress here, Nancy. It`s the first time -- first thing we`ve ever heard come out of her mouth that was the truth.

You know, so -- but you know, this whole -- circus, if you will, at the Anthony house has got to stop. I mean these people last night they were way out of line, going to the property, banging on the garage door. Police need to come out there and lock somebody up.

GRACE: To Nikki Pierce, tell me about the scuffle at the house last night.

NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Well, right after midnight some protesters started chucking things at the house and turns out that they were coins.

Cindy called police and said it sounded like rocks so the police came out and the protesters scattered, then they left and apparently the protesters came back. They went on to the property. They went and tried to bang on the garage.

George came out and got in an altercation. I believe, one of them actually grabbed him by his shirt and pulled him down the hall -- pulled him down the driveway. It ended with him turning the hose on them.

GRACE: And to Natisha Lance, our producer standing by at the Anthony home. What is the scene now?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: The scene now, Nancy, is that the Guardian Angels actually just showed up and they are the people who wear the red berets. They`re around to keep the peace.

Two of them are posted down at the end of the Anthonys property and two of them are on the driveway. If you can see over my shoulder right here, there is a small group of protesters who are out here. They have their signs.

There is some -- there is one woman who actually has a baby doll with her saying that she can`t have her own children and it just disgusts her that Casey is not looking for her own.

GRACE: You know, Natisha, you`re there every day, has it dawned on Cindy and George Anthony, that if their daughter told the truth the protesters would go home?

LANCE: Well, I think that -- we don`t know what`s going on inside the home, but I do believe that George and Cindy are doing the best that they can to cope with the protesters.

At certain points Cindy has spoken to them. She has heard what they`ve had to say. She heard their frustrations and they`ve gone back and forth. However, what the protesters really want is for Casey to come outside and to help or say something that would help people find Caylee.

GRACE: I don`t think that would help anything for her to come outside.

Everybody, we are taking your calls live.

That was the scene outside the Anthony home, and very quickly, as we go to break a very special happy birthday wish to L.A. friend of the show Simon.

Happy birthday, Simon, and thanks for watching.




ANTHONY: I didn`t know what to do. At that point, I`m thinking, OK, they haven`t been gone that long. Maybe I can find them. Maybe I can track them down. At first.

SGT. JOHN ALLEN, ORANGE COUNTY INVESTIGATOR: They haven`t been gone that long. This is yesterday, right?

ANTHONY: No, that very first day when all of this happened that I went to pick up Caylee and she wasn`t there, initially my thought is that they went out to do something for a little bit.

Maybe I just missed a phone call.

ALLEN: Right.

ANTHONY: Maybe I didn`t get the call or the text message. Maybe something fell through the cracks. It`s happened before.


GRACE: You are hearing audiotapes, mom Casey Anthony`s interrogation by police where she just heaps on the lies and lies and lies.

Mike Brooks, every single thing she told them was a lie. Everything.

BROOKS: Everything, Nancy, and it`s just -- and it`s amazing. It`s amazing the detail she goes into with these lies. It`s just -- you know, the more I hear, the more I just cannot believe what she`s talking about.

It`s just -- you know, but, also, Nancy, we`re talking about the phone records. You know it`s all well and good that we have all the names and all the times, but the thing that is going make this case, I think, or help to make a case against her and put together all of the gaps in this time in this all-important timeline are the locations of the hits, the pings on the cell phone towers from June 9th all the way.

GRACE: Right.

BROOKS: . to the day she was arrested. That is what`s going to help break this case.

GRACE: You are absolutely correct and those phone records from Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter in Sacramento, California. He and his associate Robert Dick set to meet with investigators tonight.

Right now switching gears and taking you to O.J. Simpson trial. He`s facing life behind bars again.

Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: O.J. Simpson, back in a Las Vegas courtroom. Simpson`s accused of leading a personal sting operation to Room 1203 of the Palace Station Hotel and Casino.

Prosecutors say Simpson and his gang held up two sports memorabilia dealers at gunpoint. Simpson maintains he didn`t ask anyone to bring guns and he didn`t know anyone in the room was armed.

Former co-defendants who were with Simpson in Vegas are expected to testify that Simpson asked them to bring guns.


GRACE: Out to Jean Casarez, with Tru Channel -- Jean, maybe I`m crazy, but I`ve got this transcript right here where Orenthal James Simpson says, you didn`t pull the piece out in the hall?

I assume he means a gun.

JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": That`s going to be very contested in this case.

You know, Nancy, there are so many audiotapes in this case that the prosecution wants to enter into evidence. The judge is going to allow probably all of them and have the jury discern what they mean or what they don`t mean, but this is one that had -- that was made far after the incident occurred later that night at the bar and it was made by one of the gunmen and I say gunmen because he testified there was a gun so we know there were inside that room, two guns.

The question is if O.J. Simpson knew about it, but on that transcript, we read that O.J. Simpson said, come on, man, you didn`t pull the piece out in the hallway, did you?

But the defense is going say that that`s not what O.J. Simpson said at all to Michael McClinton at the bar that night at the Palms. He said something very, very different.

GRACE: OK. Well, the jury will be the decision-maker in that. They`re the only fact finder.

Bottom line, Jean, it`s my understanding O.J. Simpson is charged with barreling into a private room at a luxury hotel casino and taking some of his posse with guns, taking a bunch of very expensive sports memorabilia.

Now I understand he wanted to get photos of his mom and dad back? Were -- was anything that was stolen a photo of his mom and dad?

CASAREZ: That never made it into the room, but he believed that night that the photos of his mother, his father, his family were going to be in the room.

GRACE: Jean, Jean, Jean.

CASAREZ: And the -- that`s right.

GRACE: Did you just say he believed that? Are you -- you`re not getting sucked in to his story.

CASAREZ: That`s right. And the defense here is state of mind. The defense here is state of mind. However, under the law in the state of Nevada, robbery is through force or fear or violence taking the property of someone, the personal property, and the prosecution says that property, even if it be photos of your family, in a sense when you use guns that that would be robbery.

The defense says no way.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Peter Odom, Richard Herman.

Peter Odom, I don`t care if you`re trying to get a photo of your parents which he was not, if you do it at gunpoint, that`s armed robbery.

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, it is, Nancy. A robbery actually is two crimes put together. It is a theft committed by means of an assault.

Here, the prosecution is going have a very difficult time proving theft because this property once belonged to O.J. Simpson.

GRACE: Operative word, once. Once, all right? Once.

ODOM: And in his view he was repossessing it.

GRACE: I can`t go try and show up in somebody`s garage and try to get my 1979 Toyota Corolla back that would be theft just because it used to belong to me means nothing.

And Mr. Richard Herman, a great deal of the stuff that was stolen from the room, allegedly, was not O.J. Simpson paraphernalia. It was stuff -- of other sports greats.

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, the gun is the penultimate issue here. This jury finds that he knew someone in his group had that gun, if they believe that, he`s getting a substantial prison sentence.

No question about it, and like you said earlier this is not L.A. They got nine female jurors on this. They have stealth jurors in there in Vegas. It`s very -- this guy will go down if that jury believes he knew the gun was there.

GRACE: You know, to Jean Casarez, I understand that a former co- defendant now turned state`s witness is Charles Ehrlich.

Is he the same Charles Ehrlich -- Charles Tuna -- that I prosecuted back in the `80s for drug trafficking, got a ten-year sentence on him?

CASAREZ: Yes, he is, Nancy. He`s the same one. He has convictions in Georgia and Florida. But he was past that, and he`s a friend of O.J. Simpson. He was here for a wedding.

GRACE: He`s not past it.

CASAREZ: But he was recruited to be a buyer in this case, to be the wealthy buyer.

GRACE: You know.

CASAREZ: To go into that room and claim all the goods.

GRACE: You know, Jean, I`m a little shocked to you. You`re not only a lawyer yourself, but report on cases in court. You`re actually falling for the fact that he`s changed? What`s he doing hanging around with O.J. Simpson with a gun?

CASAREZ: Those convictions were in `85 and `86. And he`s on with his life at this point.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The lawyer`s at the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) hotel, waiting now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you mad at me?

O.J. SIMPSON, FORMER NFL STAR: I thought you were a straight shooter, man.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re sitting here with all the (EXPLETIVE DELETED). He should be mad at you.


GRACE: O.J. Simpson back in court, facing life behind bars, again.

Back to CourtTV`s Jean Casarez. Jean, tell me, how is the jury responding to taking a gander at O.J. Simpson all day long?

CASAREZ: You know, I watched them. They`re taking notes. They`re taking a lot of notes. Every now and then, I see them look at him because he`s a celebrity. This is a courtroom that has a celebrity.

People here.

GRACE: Maybe they`re looking at him because he`s a double killer, Jean. Did you ever think of that?

CASAREZ: I look at their eyes, and they copped looks at him, Nancy. And I can`t tell you what`s in their brain, what they`re thinking, but there are people here to get his autograph. There are people that yell at him every day, saying you murdered your wife.

He gets it from both directions.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Wanda in Virginia, hi, Wanda.


GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?

WANDA: I enjoy your show.

GRACE: Thank you.

WANDA: But my question is, if they can prove that he did not have a gun or anyone was carrying a gun, what is the least he can be charged with?

GRACE: OK. That would be simple robbery.

Jean Casarez, in that jurisdiction, what`s simple robbery?

CASAREZ: That`s going to be probably two to six years. It`s going to be much more than the two to 15 for armed robbery. But the question is, we know there was a gun there.

The question is, did O.J. Simpson know there was a gun there, because that goes to his mental state. And witness after witness after witness is going to testify they saw the gun in that very small room.

GRACE: Jean Casarez, TruTV, thank you for being with us, friend.

Everybody, let`s stop and remember Army Staff Jeffrey Hartley, 25, Hempstead, Texas, killed, Iraq. Devoted to the military, on a fifth tour. Highly decorated, awarded the combat action badge, Purple Heart, Bronze Star.

Remember for a sense of humor, loved the guitar. Leaves behind grieving parents David and Carol, sister Lisa, brother David, who also served Iraq.

Jeffrey Hartley, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.