Return to Transcripts main page

Nancy Grace

Information Found on Casey Anthony`s Computer Released

Aired September 26, 2008 - 20:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a 3-year-old Florida girl named Caylee. In the last hours, more shockers. Six hundred pages of bombshell documents, photos, video, cell phone records, text messages, and stunning police interview tapes have just been released. Tonight, we are showing you the last-known video of little Caylee before she vanishes. And a highly-disturbing image is discovered on Casey Anthony`s laptop.
Also, grandmother Cindy`s stunning police interview caught on videotape. You will see it here tonight, just a few of the many bombshells emerging tonight, giving us an in-depth look into Casey Anthony`s lifestyle and her mindset around the time little Caylee goes missing. It`s business as usual for mom, Casey, partying and showing very little emotion after her toddler disappears. All the while, she is complaining and griping that being a mom is so exhausting.

A big question: Why were there multiple searches for missing kids` Web sites on the Anthony family`s computer, using Casey`s log-in, months before little Caylee disappears? But tonight, the biggest question of all remains. Where, oh, where is little Caylee?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George drove her (INAUDIBLE) and may have hit something and killed it because the car was starting to stink.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She started telling these stories from the 23rd (ph) on. Why? (INAUDIBLE) you don`t have to answer me. (INAUDIBLE)


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why -- why would she try and pass off the smell? Because we all know that there was a smell in the car. (INAUDIBLE) what the smell was, OK? We all know there was a very bad smell in the car. How could she start to day to her friends in text messages -- we have text messages. Why would she want to say, Hey, I think my dad (INAUDIBLE) you know, hit something with the car, and then later on, say, yes, it looks like my dad hit something with the car, and the car stinks.

CINDY ANTHONY: I have no idea.


CINDY ANTHONY: I have no idea.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for 3-year-old Caylee. Bombshell documents, photos and police interview tapes just released.


CINDY ANTHONY: She didn`t call me back all day, and I was a little bit worried, realized she wasn`t home (INAUDIBLE) I had a little sick feeling that something wasn`t right. So she finally called me back later, in the evening, probably after 5:30, because I was already leaving work, and she -- she was apologizing. She says, Mom, I know I should have called you...


CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, that day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was a little after 5:30?

CINDY ANTHONY: Some time after 5:30, I`m sure, because I -- it was on my way home from work.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did she say? What happened?

CINDY ANTHONY: She told me that they had gotten into -- that she -- her and Zanny -- I mean, Raquel (ph) and Zanny were about eight cars ahead of her and Juliette and the girls. Casey had her car. Zanny had their car. So Zanny and Raquel were ahead, and somehow there was an accident (INAUDIBLE) Casey and Juliet (ph) witnessed the accident.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So many shockers, so many twists. For the very latest, let`s go straight out to NANCY GRACE producer Natisha Lance, who is in Florida at the state attorney`s office. Natisha, what is the very latest?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, just as you said, Jane, hundreds of pages of new documents released today. One of the highlights, the biggest things were the computer forensics, which indicate, of course, no indication or reference to Zenaida Gonzalez either in photos, IM chats, nothing.

Also on there, as you stated before, there were searches on -- under Casey Anthony`s log-in name for missing children way back in March. Now, this is long before Caylee went missing.

Also, Cindy Anthony gives an interview to police which was on August 1. In this interview, she says that Caylee (SIC) would say that she was going to crash at Zanny`s house, also saying that she thought that Caylee was with friends of Casey`s, specifically Amy Huizenga or Jesse Grund. She also implicated Jesse Grund, saying that she thought that he might be the person responsible. But detectives backed her up and said, Well, we know for a fact Caylee is not with Jesse.

Also on that, there was noose. There was a picture with a baby looking up at a teddy bear with a noose. And this is an anti-death penalty drawing or poster. It originated in the UK. But it was an image that was saved onto that home computer. And it said, "Why do people kill people who kill people to show that killing people is bad?"

Also, Jane, in a conversation and IM chat with Anthony Ruciano (ph) -- and this is the police officer who was let go from his job because he lied about having a relationship with Casey Anthony. In this conversation, Casey refers to Caylee as a "little snot head." And that`s the latest.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Isn`t that lovely, for a mother to refer to her own daughter as a "little snot head." Sometimes just a couple of words tell the whole story.

Where to begin? So many bombshells. Let`s start with a former detective with the Santa Ana police. Donald Schweitzer, analyze this one for us. Months before little Caylee disappears, somebody is on the Anthony family computer, on Casey Anthony`s log-in, searching for missing children`s Web sites. Why on earth would they possibly want to do that?

DONALD SCHWEITZER, FORMER DETECTIVE, SANTA ANA PD: There`s only one explanation in this case, and that`s premeditation. This woman was thinking about what she`d be telling authorities in the end, when she did what she was planning on doing. That`s the only reasonable explanation for having that information on the computer.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, we are telling you for -- the first time tonight, we are seeing this crucial interview between the grandmother of missing Caylee and police, an interview conducted on August 1. We have it on videotape. Let`s listen in.


CINDY ANTHONY: It could have been one or two nights that they said they stayed at Zanny because it seemed like starting in May and June, it was more frequent that they crashed at Zanny, but not more than one or two days at a time until after June, you know, 16. Then it was a story every - - every day. But up until then, it was no more than one or two days ever strung together.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) saying that the baby`s at Zanny`s (INAUDIBLE) but I`m going to Ricardo`s...


CINDY ANTHONY: No, what she would say is, I`m going to crash at -- I`m going to -- you know, Mom, I have to work late. I`m just going to leave Caylee at Zanny`s because I have to get up in the morning, and I`m going to stay at Zanny`s, and that way I can on to work. So she was going to crash at Zanny`s.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: She was going to crash at Zanny`s. We want to analyze that in just a moment. But first, it`s important to point out that Casey Anthony is not considered a suspect in her daughter`s disappearance. She is charged for child neglect, for which she has pleaded not guilty. She is considered a person of interest, and police say that is because she lied to investigators and because of other evidence, but she has not been charged in connection with her daughter`s disappearance. Important to point out.

Let`s go to Nikki Pierce, reporter with WDBO radio. All this talk about crashing at Zanny`s -- now, according to Cindy`s conversation with the cops, she`s saying that in the days leading up to little Caylee`s disappearance, Casey and Caylee stayed away from the home, the family home, the parental home, more and more often, and were crashing at Zanny`s. But of course, detectives believe Zanny, the so-called baby-sitter, does not exist. So where was she staying if she wasn`t crashing at Zanny`s?

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: That`s one of the big questions of this case, although rumor has it that she was staying with Ricardo Morales, which was her boyfriend at the time, and then later on, she started staying with Tony Lazzarro, who was her boyfriend after Ricardo. It`s a little muddled and a little unclear in that area, but police do believe that Zenaida does not exist.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And on top of all that, we have this hot sexual affair with a sheriff`s deputy. And let me go back to Natisha Lance on this one because I want you to clarify this comment about a "little snot head." Apparently, there were text messages going back and forth, and Casey and this deputy, who was later fired not because he did anything involved in this case but because he didn`t tell his bosses that he had had a relationship with Casey -- they`re texting back and forth because they want to get together and have a little action.

LANCE: That`s right. They hadn`t seen each other, it appears, for three weeks, so he`s trying to make plans to get together with Casey. And Casey is giving excuses, saying that she`s playing phone tag with not only her mom but also with Zenaida, saying that her mom has a neck injury because she was doing yard work. And then she says, as far as Zanny is concerned, that she`s struck in traffic and that she can`t get over there.

He has a timeframe that he`s trying to work out. And before all that happens, she said -- when he was trying to get together with her, she says, Oh, do you want me to bring the little snot head? And he says, Well, I`m saying come over when there`s an adult around. And then she goes into all these excuses after one another, and it doesn`t seem as if they got together that night.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And what`s fascinating is that she also says in one of those texts, I need to start looking out for numero uno more often -- in other words, looking out for herself.

I think it`s time to bring in the shrink, Dr. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist. You`ve been listening to all of this, a mother describing her kid as a "little snot head," possibly the same mother who left little Caylee`s treasured baby doll in the carseat. Wherever Caylee ended up, she was not with her treasured little doll that, of course, with anybody who`s ever been a kid knows it`s hurtful to rip a little doll from its -- from the child`s hands. What do you make of all of these developments coming in tonight?

LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, you know, it`s very disturbing that this is a woman who apparently lied all the time, and her mother knew it, her family knew it. It was a way of life. And nobody followed up on, Who is this actual baby-sitter? Can I meet her? Can I say where you`re staying? Can I see? It`s very, very disturbing. And I think that it`s pointing to some really, really major sociopathic patterns and tendencies here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Leonard Padilla, the phone lines are lighting up, but let me ask you first. In all of these hundreds and hundreds of text messages, in all of the e-mails, in all of the phone calls, in every single piece of evidence, there is one giant, glaring omission. Nothing about Zenaida Gonzalez, the so-called baby-sitter from -- emanating from Casey or to Casey.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, that`s absolutely correct. And the young lady that we had with Casey for nine days -- today myself, and my associate, Rob Dick, who she works for -- she was actually in my office, and we sat there. And me and Rob put the scenario forward about, OK, she runs out of gas on the night of the 26th. She`s by a dumpster. The next day, she`s talking about squirrels. She calls Tony, says, Come pick me up. The 28th, she calls Jesse, says, Come pick me up. On the 29th and the 30th, finally, the car gets towed off.

Now, look, I know that you`ve had conversations, and she`s told us how attached she became to Casey. Stop us if we`re wrong about any of this scenario, especially her putting the child in the dumpster. She started to cry, but never said no. And that was just today.


CINDY ANTHONY: I have, like, seven pages of stuff that I asked him. You know how Lee is doing it? I did the same thing to Jesse because he was my first. He was my first person I thought of that had a motive, that could intimidate Casey enough to keep her mouth shut and that would threaten us because he`s that type of person.




CINDY ANTHONY: I lived (ph) day by day with Jesse, and he`s (INAUDIBLE) discrepancies. In fact, I wrote down everything as he was talking to me, and he changed his story two and three times.

It was an 18-minute conversation on June 27 that he had with Casey that she invited him out to Fusian`s to cheer him up. He told me it was June 27. And I was writing it as he`s talking, and I said, You`re sure June 27? He goes, Absolutely. It was that Friday that we went out. And I says, Well, you talked to her for 18 minutes. Did you hear Caylee in the background? Did you talk about Caylee? He goes, yes, I asked her where she was, and she said she was with the baby-sitter at the beach.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. More bombshell document just released in the case of missing toddler Caylee that paint an increasingly disturbing picture of her mother. One shocking new tidbit, documents show somebody using Cindy Anthony`s computer and Casey Anthony`s log-in began visiting missing children`s Web sites months -- months -- before little Caylee vanished. Why? That is the big question.

The phone lines have lit up. Let`s go to Cheryll in Arkansas. Your question, ma`am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. If you watch the body language of Casey Anthony, she`s enjoying the bodyguards and the security, and she always cuts her eyes to the cameras. And why don`t they pull the security and the bodyguards and let her sink herself?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, you raise a very important question. Let`s go back to psychotherapist Leslie Austin. There has been a lot of talk of a battle between Casey and her mom, Cindy, over the affections of little Caylee. In other words, it would seem, looking at this, that Casey, the tot mom, was jealous that the little baby, her little child, was getting so much attention from her own mother. And so now she`s the center of attention. Now everybody is looking at her. On some unconscious level, is that rewarding for her?

AUSTIN: Yes, I`m sure it is. When you have somebody who appears to be this narcissistic, veering into sociopathic tendencies, yes, they love the attention. They don`t care if it`s negative because in their world, they`re the center of the world and they love it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I want to go -- there are so many disturbing things that have popped up tonight that it`s almost hard to keep track of them. But let me go to Nikki Pierce on this one because this one is a stunner. On July 11, somebody, very possibly Casey, downloaded onto Casey`s laptop an icon from the deceased rapper Tupac Shakur. Excuse me on that one. Rappers aren`t my strong point -- deceased rapper Tupac Shakur.

And here is the quote. "You can spend minutes, hours, days, weeks or even months overanalyzing a situation, trying to put the pieces together, justify what could have, would have happened. Or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the" -- expletive -- "on." Now, this is July 11, before her mom calls the cops, but after her daughter is missing!

PIERCE: That`s correct. There were a couple of things that showed up on the computer that was -- that were a little disturbing. Another one...


PIERCE: Yes, OK, a lot disturbing. Besides the Tupac lyrics, I believe she wrote a poem of her own that had the lies, Everyone lies, everyone dies, life will never be easy, or something along those lines. So I know investigators are taking a close look at some of those things.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And these are new pictures, by the way, we are getting of this adorable, adorable, angelic -- they just came in today -- angelic pictures of this child. And you contrast these gorgeous photos and this beautiful,smiling face with some of the morbid, morbid focuses of her mother.

And let`s bring in Donald Schweitzer, former directive, on this one. OK, she downloaded something that was not her own drawing. It was downloaded apparently from an anti-death penalty Web site of some sort. But it is a picture of a little girl next to a teddy bear, who is hanging by a noose around its neck, along with the words, "Why do people kill people who kill people to show people that to kill people is bad?" This is on July 8, after Caylee went missing. Would you conclude she is worried about what happens to somebody in terms of punishment when you kill someone?

SCHWEITZER: Jane, I would conclude that, but then again, I`m using my common sense, something that we would ask the public and prospective jurors, if she`s ever brought to trial in this case.

My biggest thing here is, is what`s the dialogue between the police and the prosecutor at this point? This evidence seems to be so overwhelming at this point. What`s going on over there at the DA`s office?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I think it`s a very good question. And George from Tennessee, what are your thoughts before we bring in the lawyers?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. I enjoy this program. And what I`d like to know is, the older gentleman there you see off and on that`s holding little Caylee -- I don`t know if it`s the great-grandfather or whatever it is. Has anyone ever questioned him? Does he know anything? Could he inject any information?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now, Natisha Lance, correct me if I`m wrong because there are so many details to this case, but I believe that`s the great-grandfather of little Caylee. And she actually went to visit him on Father`s Day, June 15, which, of course, destroyed the whole timeline that Casey had offered, saying she had left this child with this mysterious Zanny baby-sitter on June 9.

LANCE: That`s is correct, Jane. And actually, they -- yes, that`s correct, Jane. And actually, they did interview the wife of the great- grandfather, who would be the great-grandmother, and she said that she was confused about the timeline at first, too. She thought it was the 8th, as Cindy Anthony had indicated earlier, but then she had some cards and things that Cindy had brought over, and she realized it was the 15th. She said that Cindy and Caylee came over after that visit. They had chili and they had a great time. So she was confused about the timeline, as well.



CINDY ANTHONY: He was in my home every day, and I got to know him and I got to see his anger and rage because he took it out on me one day, a couple times while they were engaged. And from the day Caylee was born, he was in her life and he had stayed in her life off and on. And Casey doesn`t -- you know, she was very, like, Stay away from him, Mom, that kind of thing. And even if you guys watch (INAUDIBLE) interview, I asked her specifically about people and she- every -- the only person she said, Don`t talk to, she said, Stay away from Jesse. And she looked frightened when she said that.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Cindy Anthony on videotape, talking to police investigators. We are seeing and hearing this interview for the very first time tonight. And what emerges is shocking.

And speaking of shocking, just saw them during the break, we`re going to bring them to you momentarily, photos of Casey Anthony at an "anything but clothes party" wearing only an American flag, coming up in just a moment.

Let`s unleash the lawyers, as Nancy Grace would say. And we`ve got two great ones here tonight, Tamara Holder, defense attorney, and John Burris, also defense attorney. You hear it there. Let`s start with John. Everybody`s saying the mounting evidence, look at it, somebody searching on a Web site, missing kids, months before this child disappears. When is enough for prosecutors, John?

JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, apparently, it`s not enough as of yet because the various pieces that you talked about do not necessarily point to her as a person that perpetrated the crime. You have a lot of this connect the pieces, but you don`t have -- one, you don`t have a body. That`s number one. You don`t have any admissions. You don`t have any way to tie her to the particular crime.

You have some circumstantial evidence, there`s no doubt about it, but it doesn`t all point to guilt. So I think the government or the DA is very reticent about going forward yet. Right now, she`s just being tried in the court of public opinion, may ultimately result in a change in a venue, but right now, they government doesn`t feel that strongly about it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look, Tamara Holder, after her child goes missing, she gets a tattoo that says, "The beautiful life," translated into "The beautiful" -- who gets a tattoo that says "The beautiful life" after your child -- your beautiful daughter goes missing?

TAMARA HOLDER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, all I can say is that speculation alone is not enough. I mean, all we have here is uncovering a liar, a compulsive liar. We don`t have a body. We don`t have a confession. We don`t have blood. We don`t have any witnesses. We don`t have this body that was supposed to be in a dumpster. What do we have besides a compulsive liar? That`s not enough.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George had driven the car and he had hit something and hit it, because the car was starting to stink.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She started telling you stories from the 25th on.

Why -- I just want to plant the seed, OK? You don`t have to answer this. Why would she try and do that? Why would she try and pass off the smell. Because we all know that there was a smell. I`m not here to dispute what the smell was, OK? We all know there was a very bad smell in the car. Why would she start to say to her friends in text message - we have text messages --why would she want to say, hey, I think my dad hit something with the car, and later on say, yeah, it looks like my dad hit something with the car and the car smells?

C. ANTHONY: I have no idea.


JANE VALEZ MITCHELL, CNN HEADLINE ANCHOR: Jane Valez Mitchell in for Nancy Grace. There you are watching and hearing Cindy Anthony`s interview with authorities. And, of course, she has tried to explain the stench, the horrific stench coming out of the car that Casey Anthony used. She said it was pizza that was rotting. Casey Anthony, herself, blamed it on squirrels. But, of course, cadaver dogs hit on the trunk, and the body pharm took air samples, tested them from that trunk, and concluded that it was human decomposition.

Let`s bring our very patient forensic scientist, Tom McClintock, and ask you about this dumpster.

Now, there has been some speculation, no idea really where it came from, about a dumpster. But if, in fact, the body has been dumped in a dumpster, wouldn`t it have the same stench that this trunk would have?

TOM MCCLINTOCK, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: It could. And the thing is, is that we know that the air samples from the trunk were analyzed by the body pharm at the University of Tennessee. And there is a chemical profile that`s associated with human decomposition, and not of another animal, or squirrels.

Regarding the dumpster, it could have a different sort of stench, as you call it. But it still would have some sort of chemical profile that`s associated with a decomposing human body.

MITCHELL: And, you know, this whole case is a study in contrast, as we talk about these very morbid subjects. New pictures just coming in, as we speak, of Casey Anthony, at an "Anything-But-Clothes Party". This apparently as on May 25th, and there you see her wearing only an American flag. This, again, an anything but clothes party. And this is before her daughter disappears.

But, again, this desire and need to party hearty is an absolute unending theme in this 22-year-old woman`s very, very troubled life. Let`s go quickly to Nikki Pierce, reporter at WDBO.

What do you know about this dumpster? Has the dumpster been tested? Have they gone to the landfill of where this dumpster dumps out to, to see any truth of the speculation? And where does the speculation come from?

NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: I have to say, the first I heard of a recycling bin near the dumpster was last night from Leonard Padilla, hereon the program. So I`m not entirely sure about that.

But I do know that the dumpster, beside the AMSCOT (ph) where the car was parked and towed from has been checked by authorities. Furthermore, there is a GPS that is attached to the dump truck that took the trash and took it to a landfill, and there is a specific grid, specific area in the landfill, where it usually dumps. That area has been checked by employees, and so far they haven`t found anything.

MITCHELL: Those on the phone, be patient, we`ll get to you in one second. But first I have to bring in another very patient man, Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert. You just heard talk of GPS. We are hearing in the hundreds and hundreds of hundreds of pages of documents that are coming in, there are now GPS latitude and longitudes that are being connected with certain text messages, because Casey Anthony sent hundreds and hundreds of text messages. So shouldn`t they know by now where she was during those crucial days after her daughter disappeared and had some kind of a grid of her movement?

BEN LEVITAN, TELECOM EXPERT: That`s absolutely right, Jane. We know exactly where she was. I`ve worked on a lot of expert witness cases, locating people, and proving they were either at a location or not. And I have never seen a mountain of evidence like this. This is absolutely incredible. They did all -- the detectives in this case did all of the right things. They got all of the evidence that we needed to be able to actually track where Casey was every minute.

And I think that`s why they dumped this out on us. But they didn`t give us the very significant dates. So they have this level of detail on the dates that we need, the 9th, the 10th, the 15th, the 16th, there`s really, you know -- we take the lying out of this picture completely, because we`re back to forensic evidence. We know exactly where she is.

MITCHELL: Well, if they know where she is, and they`ve got these hundreds of pinpoints of where she did all of these texts and received these texts, why is this case sort of languishing?

LEVITAN: Well, that`s for the lawyers to answer. And I`ve gone into court so many times with evidence that`s slam-dunk, and not won the case. And, you know, our jobs as forensic expert is to tell the truth, and explain it to a jury in a simple manner, like we do here on your show.

MITCHELL: I think the 30-second answer or the 10-second answer is they may have a lot of dots on maps, but they do not have a body! And that is the big problem with this case right now.

Carol, Alabama, your question, ma`am.

CALLER: My question concerns Cindy Anthony, the grandmother. Is it possible, her being an RN, that she may have already had chloroform, and since she did wash some things, like pants from inside the car when they received it from the towing company, could -- and chloroform is also used as a solvent. Is it possible that she, herself, may have used the chloroform in the trunk of the car to try to remove that odor? And if so, would she not have removed some forensic evidence when she did that?

MITCHELL: Well, first of all, very interesting question. We have to say, Cindy Anthony deserves our respect and compassion. She is a woman who has lost her granddaughter, and she is in no way, shape or form considered a suspect. This is not an interrogation that we have been listening to. This is an interview, OK?

So the point about the chloroform is interesting, Natisha Lance, because there were web searches for chloroform, and chloroform in the trunk. Explain the chloroform issue.

NATISHA LANCE, PRODUCER, NANCY GRACE: Well, there were searches for chloroform on the computer. However, the chloroform that was found in the trunk, experts have said that it was in such a pure form that it couldn`t have come from any type of cleaning solvent or anything like that. It had to have come from a pure form of chloroform itself.

MITCHELL: All right. Leonard Padilla, I have to ask you this, because I was struck by what you said perhaps last night -- one of the nights recently - that there is always a grain of truth in what Casey Anthony says. And she is constantly talking about going off to a job, going off to a job, which apparently she doesn`t have. So could there be a grain of truth that, in fact, maybe she was going off to maybe a job that was nefarious or shameful. And this is completely speculative and completely hypothetical, because you`re saying there was a grain of truth. Where was she going when she said she was going off to these jobs for hours and days at a stretch? What was she doing?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: She -- she normally, and if you look at the GPS tracking and the longitudes and latitudes, there were times when she was just here and there.

But let me bring up something that you threw in there. When I first went back to Orlando, Jose Baez (ph), the attorney, showed me a card from Jesse, a very loving card sent to Caylee and Casey on Caylee`s first birthday. He wanted me to interpret that as a possibility that this gentleman, Jesse, loved that child so much that he would steal her. There was also a situation where a lot of people don`t understand this. Jesse was given a lie detector test by the FBI for six hours, and passed every bit of it. You can check with his father on that, or Jesse. The thing about it is that, you know, Casey has people throwing everybody under the bus in Orlando in order to save her own skin. There was also, after her own father attacked her in the home, trying to find out where the granddaughter was the very first day she was home, there was a letter, a card, sent to her that the attorney had, saying daughter, I love you very much, I will stand behind you.

MITCHELL: Hey, I`m going to jump in. The reason I asked you was if in fact there were searches for chloroform in a very pure form was found in the trunk but no evidence that she actually bought it, could somebody else have bought it? Could she have some accomplice somewhere that she has been hanging out with when she says she`s going to Universal?

PADILLA: Something that I found out abut chloroform is that somehow the youngsters, and I call them youngsters, they`re in the 20 to 25 age range, somehow they were using chloroform in their sex acts. I don`t know exactly if they sniff it or what they do.


PADILLA: Yes, you look on Ricardo Morales web site, on his -

MITCHELL: Well, listen, I don`t want to get into saying anything untoward about any individuals.

PADILLA: No, I`m all saying is that it is not that hard to come up with. I mean, they just seem to have access to it.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She would call you and say that the baby is Zani`s staying the night, but I`m going to Ricardo`s.

C. ANTHONY: No, what she would say is I`m gonna crash at - I`m gonna crash - you know, Mom, I have to work late. I`m just gonna leave Caylee at Zani`s because I have to get up in the morning and I`m gonna stay at Zani`s and that way I can go on to work. So she was gonna crash at Zani`s.




Tough questions for the presidential candidates in tonight`s debate. They were asked about their views on whether the surge was working in Iraq.


JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Next president of the United States will have to decide how we leave, when we leave, and what we leave behind. That`s the decision of the next president of the United States. Senator Obama said, the surge could not work, said it would increase sectarian violence, said it was doomed to failure. Recently on a television program, he said it exceeded our wildest expectations. But yet after conceding that, he still says that he would oppose the surge if he had to decide that again today.

BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: John, you like to pretend like the war started in 2007. You talk about the surge, the war started in 2003. And at the time, when the war started, you said it would be quick and easy. You said we knew where the weapons of mass destruction were. You were wrong. You said we would be greeted as liberators. You were wrong. You said that there was no history of violence between Shia and Sunni. You were wrong.


CHA: Massachusetts Senator Ted Kennedy was taken to the hospital today after having a seizure. Doctors believe it was triggered by a change in medication. He is being treated for brain cancer. He did return home in time to watch the presidential debate.

Keep it here. We`ll be back. I`m Virginia Cha.


C. ANTHONY: During the whole time when I was sitting there talking to Jesse that Saturday after all of this happened - when he was in my home, he was sure of all of his - you know, he was sure about. Now, you haven`t talk to Caylee or Casey during this whole time frame. Absolutely not. Are you absolutely sure? Absolutely not. So that was a big red flag when he changed his story going into the media. That he had heard Caylee.


C. ANTHONY: Yeah, or even that he had heard Caylee`s voice because he maintained the whole time that the babysitter had her from what Casey said and that was not - and he believed all that so.


MITCHELL: Jane Valez Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.

And you continue to see and hear an interview we just got in. An interview between authorities and the missing child`s grandmother, Cindy Anthony.

I have to ask, Nikki Pierce, reporter WDBO Radio, along with everything else that has come in, and these hundreds of pages in these new documents just released. More lies. And the way I see it, there are always three themes to Casey`s lies. One, that she has a job, which she doesn`t, apparently, anyway. We don`t know the job that she may have had, if she is referring to a job. It`s not at Universal. The second is, she`s going to get a house and live somewhere else with somebody, a better house. And the other one is, Zani, Zani, Zani, in fact she says in one text, just talk to Zani, even though police never found any record of any connection with any woman named Zenaida Gonzalez.

PIERCE: All of the above are correct. As a matter of fact, there is only one mention that we know of and that is to one of her lovers, Anthony Rushack (ph), something about Zani, I`m playing phone tag with Zani. I`m playing phone tag with my mom, in reference to getting somebody to watch Caylee. But when the police went over her computer, they found absolutely no contact with any kind of Zenaida, whatsoever.

And as far as the jobs go, as far as we know she did not have a job. But she kept saying she was a Universal event planner.

MITCHELL: I want to bring in the lawyers. Tamara Holder, defense attorney and John Burris, defense attorney.

Tamara, let`s start with you. When Cindy Anthony is talking to authorities and they`re trying to piece together a time line, it is so confusing, it is such a mess, they`ve got calendars, they can`t figure it out, because there are so many lies that are sort of riddled. The whole thing is riddled with lies. So if this case goes to trial, how tough is it going to be for both sides to make any sense with it, since we`re having a hard time?

TAMARA HOLDER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think the lies are actually losing their value. Because this woman, Casey, has been lying before -- before this alleged crime occurred. She has been lying to her mom, she has been lying to her friends. She has probably been lying her whole life. So the fact that she is lying to the police is nothing new for this woman.

That`s why we need something more. That`s why we need something more for an indictment. We`ve got to find some kind of direct evidence. We`ve got to --

MITCHELL: How about a human -- decomposing human? That`s what the body pharm said, human decomposition, found in the trunk of the car, along with hair that appears to be Caylee`s.

HOLDER: It`s not enough. I mean, we would have an indictment right now, if they thought that that was enough. One -- one piece of evidence in the trunk of a car is not enough. Remember, Scott Peterson had cement in a boat and that wasn`t enough. So, we have got to have something more.

MITCHELL: John Burris, jump in.

JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think you`ve got to have more than what you have. Now, I will say that certainly the circumstantial evidence that you have decomposing body that it is tied to the child. What we don`t have it being tied to the child, we have some hair, but hair could have been on any other particular item at any point in time. So I think if you put those two together, you don`t get enough to say that the decomposing body is that of the child.

MITCHELL: John, we have been receiving hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pages of documents, day after day after day.

BURRIS: But there is nothing in those documents.

MITCHELL: How much more are authorities expected to do?

BURRIS: There is nothing in those documents that represents admissions of her, nor do they identify her as being the killer of this child. There`s a lot of-this is a person who can`t tell the truth about anything. She is a sociopathic person. But that in and of itself is not proof. That is character --

MITCHELL: And we are going to give you, sir, the very last word. You`ve made some good points to the defense attorney tonight. We are going to turn right now to "CNN Heroes".



NUJOOD ALI, AGE 10 (through translator): When I got married, I was scared. I didn`t want to leave my house. I didn`t want to leave my family and siblings.

He was asking me to sleep with him, but I refused. He beat me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was she forced to have sexual relations with him?

ALI: Yes.

SHADA NASSER, PROTECTING THE POWERLESS: We have a big problem here in Yemen, about the age for marriages. I hope they change this law.

ALI (through translator): I didn`t want to get married, and I wanted to get divorced.

NASSER: I went to the court, to look after my cases. They said some girl she come here to ask about divorce. When I spoke with her, I feel like she is my daughter. I put her in my arm, OK? I hug her. I said, don`t be afraid. I will help you and you will take the divorce.

ALI (through translator): I was afraid, but then the lawyer helped me.

ANNOUNCER: Get involved,



MITCHELL: And now a look back at the rest of the Caylee developments this week.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know where Caylee is, yet her mom escalates when my mom gets in the room, almost combatively. My sister, when she explained that to my mom, I don`t know where Caylee is. And then my mother immediately goes, who took her? Who took her? Then Casey goes, the nanny did. She was kidnapped, Mom.


MITCHELL: We are now hearing in their own words what happened when the Anthony family finds out little Caylee is missing. Tonight, bombshell audio tapes released.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Tonight, Casey`s ex-fiance`s family is speaking out, breaking their silence with Nancy Grace. This as exclusive new photos released showing the tot mom like you`ve never seen her before.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is not the truth. You need to tell -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it`s not the truth. We can`t get past that unless you go ahead and tell us the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is nothing to get past, because that is the truth.

MITCHELL: I want to go back to the Richard Grund, father of Casey Anthony`s ex-fiance, Jesse Grund.

Mr. Grund, do you believe there is any chance Caylee is still alive?

RICHARD GRUND, FATHER OF JESSE GRUND: According to my beliefs, I walk by faith and not by sight. So until I know for sure, absolutely beyond a doubt that Caylee is gone, then I will hold out the hope that she`s going to come home.


MITCHELL: Tonight let`s stop to remember, Army Sergeant Joseph Richard III, 27, from Lafayette, Louisiana, killed in Iraq. On his third tour of duty, awarded the Combat Action Badge, and National Defense Service Medal. He attended the University of Louisiana. He leaves behind parents Joseph, Jr., and Elaine. His sister, Carmen, and his widow Monique. Joseph Richard, an American hero.

Thanks to all of our guests for their insights. Thanks to you at home for tracking this very important case with us. See you tomorrow night, right here, 8 o`clock sharp Eastern. Meantime, have a happy and a safe evening.