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Nancy Grace
Casey Anthony Meeting With Attorney on Jailhouse Video/Alabama Man Kills 10 and Self in Shooting Spree
Aired March 11, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily-wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthonys` home confirmed to be Caylee, manner of death homicide. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct-taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple-bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Bombshell. Turns out the lawyers were right, the Orlando jail facility secretly recording tot mom privately meeting with her lawyer just minutes after she watches live TV when Caylee`s skeleton discovered. Sources inside the investigation reveal tot mom looked, quote, "fidgety" during the live coverage and downright hostile in the meeting moments later. Little did she know it was all caught on grainy surveillance video. Tot mom`s lawyers fighting mad. They do not want the video released.
And we learn lawyers heading back to court to try and force brother Lee Anthony to answer one of two questions he refused to address during sworn testimony. What is it? Who is little Caylee`s biological father? Why won`t brother Lee answer the question? What`s there to hide?
And is there a plea deal on the table -- repeat, a plea deal -- for a lighter sentence for tot mom? Breaking her silence, tot mom Casey Anthony lashes out in a just-released statement accusing prosecutors of being, quote, "angry" she won`t take a deal. All the while, tot mom`s due in court in less than 24 hours.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE ANTHONY`S MOTHER: I truly, truly love that little girl and miss her so much!
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re here because? We got here how, to do what?
CASEY ANTHONY: Because I lied, because I brought you up here. And honestly, I was reaching for...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop right here. I want you to tell me how lying to us is going to help us find your daughter.
CASEY ANTHONY: It`s not going to.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY`S BROTHER: My mother immediately goes, Who took her? Who took her? And then Casey goes, The nanny did it. She was kidnapped, Mom.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m frustrated and I`m angry, and I don`t want to be angry.
GRACE: Lawyers claim cops secretly recorded them meeting with tot mom in jail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anthony`s attorney, Jose Baez, asked the judge to block the release of jailhouse video, the one that shows her reaction when her daughter`s skeletal remains were found near the Anthony home in mid- December.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We all heard reports that she hyperventilated, she doubled over, she asked for medication.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: From day one, you guys were building a case against Casey as a murderer.
CASEY ANTHONY: I wish that -- like I said, that none of this would have happened!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And to Satsuma, Florida. A 5-year-old girl tucked into bed, five hours later, she`s gone, vanished into thin air, the back door propped wide open. Dad comes home from the night shift to find not a single trace of little Haleigh.
Exclusive. Haleigh`s biological mother hires a lawyer. Why? Are there plans for a custody battle over Haleigh`s 4-year-old little brother, the brother sleeping in the room when Haleigh is snatched, or is something else brewing?
Tonight, as the search goes on, where is 5-year-old Haleigh?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s been almost a month since the little girl has disappeared, and still detectives are not any closer to finding the missing kindergartner.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I ask this community to please have patience and to bear with us. And we`re looking for that one lead and that one tip that it`s going to take to bring Haleigh home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She hasn`t smiled much since Haleigh`s been gone. Misty Croslin was beaming as she went into the courthouse to get a marriage license with Haleigh`s dad, Ronald Cummings. She smiled as she showed us her engagement ring and told us about the surprise proposal.
MISTY CROSLIN, ENGAGED TO RONALD CUMMINGS: He got down on his knees and said, Will you marry me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From that door, it`s about 15 steps through the kitchen and through the living room, right to in front of Haleigh`s toddler bed in the bedroom. Directly across from her bed is the bed where Misty Croslin was sleeping with Haleigh`s little brother, Junior.
CROSLIN: They look at me like their mom, you know? You ask little Junior and he`ll tell you. You know, they talk lovely about me, and I`m so good to them kids.
RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER: Please, if you have her, bring her home. Haleigh, if you`re watching, you know you`ll always be Daddy`s little girl. I love you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Also tonight, the mystery surrounding 23-year-old mom Stacy Peterson, vanishing, upscale Chicago suburbs, husband/cop Drew Peterson a suspect in his fourth wife`s disappearance, the suspicious dry bathtub drowning of wife number three ruled homicide.
Tonight: Did Drew Peterson have an accomplice? Peterson`s own stepbrother says he believes Stacy Peterson`s body was hidden -- hidden -- in a blue barrel and that he helped haul it out of the Peterson home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. So this doesn`t worry you at all.
DREW PETERSON, 4TH WIFE MISSING: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No?
PETERSON: No. It didn`t worry me 18 months ago, either.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Drew Peterson talking about "The Herald News." The paper is reporting that Will County state`s attorney James Glasgow penned an immunity deal offered to Thomas Morphey, Drew`s stepbrother, to tell all he knows to authorities about the disappearance of Drew`s wife, Stacy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... a relative of yours saying he helped carry a rectangular container out of your home on October 28th.
PETERSON: I have no idea what anybody`s talking about like that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Warm to the touch.
PETERSON: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He says he believes that he helped you dispose of your wife`s body. Can you at least respond to that?
PETERSON: No. Nobody helped me with anything (INAUDIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And we go live, Samson, Alabama, the close-knit community reeling after a deadly shooting spree, the biggest shooting spree in Alabama history. But why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This event formed the single deadliest crime recorded in Alabama.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this time, we believe that he fired in excess of 200 rounds during the assault.
DEP. JOSH MYERS, GENEVA COUNTY SHERIFF`S DEPT.: I cried so much yesterday, I don`t have a tear left in me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Turns out the lawyers were right, the Orlando jail secretly recording tot mom privately meeting with her defense lawyer, and it`s just minutes after she watches live TV when Caylee`s little skeleton discovered. Little did she know it`s all caught on grainy surveillance video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony says prosecutors are, in her words, "angry" she isn`t taking a plea deal. And in a sworn affidavit she signed yesterday, she included a handwritten note. This is handwritten from Casey Anthony saying, "I believe that Mr. Ashton is angry because I have refused to take a plea agreement for a crime that I did not commit."
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: A plea deal, if real, would be steal!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anthony`s defense attorney, Jose Baez, filed the affidavit in response to a defense motion on how she`s paying for her defense.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jose Baez has been asked many, many times, Who is paying for you? Who`s paying for all these -- the dream team of lawyers? And he will always say it`s nobody`s business.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Court documents show Casey Anthony confirmed that she signed a financial agreement with Baez, but she said there are no clauses in the agreement that would let him sell the rights to her story.
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: I have absolutely no book deals or no entertainment deals.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: I think she`s being coached (INAUDIBLE) Mr. Baez. My daughter hired this guy, said she could pay him. I don`t know how she`s going to pay him. She don`t work. She don`t have any money that I know of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to our producer, Natisha Lance, standing by there at the Orlando jail facility. Natisha, I understand it`s true tot mom was caught on video with her defense lawyer just minutes after she sees live coverage of the discovery of little Caylee`s body. According to sources there, what was her reaction?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. What we`re hearing is that Casey Anthony was with her attorney, Jose Baez. Now, Jose Baez appears to be leaning into Casey Anthony, wiping his eyes, appearing to be crying. Casey Anthony has her arms crossed and is looking away from him.
GRACE: OK. Hold on. Hold on. So the lawyer`s crying. Jose Baez appears to be crying. And the tot mom has her arms crossed and is looking away?
LANCE: That`s correct, Nancy, according to one report. There`s another report that says both of them are crying and sobbing together. But all of the reports do say that Jose Baez is the one who appears to be crying and continuously wiping his eyes.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez, legal correspondent with In Session. Jean, isn`t that bass-ackwards? Shouldn`t the lawyer be staying cool, calm and collected and she should be crying?
JEAN CASAREZ, IN SESSION: Let me give you a timeline. And this is what we heard in open court last week, at the last hearing. Jose Baez said he had arrived at the jail. He wanted to see Casey. He wasn`t allowed to see Casey. So Casey was initially told alone about what was found close to her house, right then, on December 11th. After that, Jose Baez was able to come in, and that is the video that we believe, according to the defense motion, is soon to be released.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. With me, Robin Sax, prosecutor and author of "Predators and Child Molesters," Penny Douglas Furr, veteran trial lawyer in the Atlanta jurisdiction, and renowned defense attorney out of the San Francisco area Daniel Horowitz.
Weigh in, Horowitz.
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m angry, Nancy. This is at the very heart of the attorney/client privilege. It`s a violation of your right to a defense. You know, Bernie Madoff, that rich bum, meets his lawyers in the privacy of his penthouse. Just because this woman can`t afford bail does not mean she gets spied upon by the prosecution and police.
GRACE: Horowitz~! Horowitz! Nobody has violated anything. I want to remind you of something, Daniel Horowitz. Today is the four-year anniversary of the Atlanta courthouse shooting. And you know how I know what happened? Because there was surveillance video. It`s right up there on the wall, if you care to look around.
You know Penny Douglas Furr, nothing nefarious happened. I don`t care what the defense is screaming. Another thing, Douglas Furr, it must be bad because the defense doesn`t want it released.
PENNY DOUGLAS FURR, TRIAL LAWYER: Nancy, they can have a separate room where they can put her in her room with her defense attorney. They should not be taping her while she`s there with her defense attorney. That`s an area that`s totally off limits. And it definitely should not be released. And as to his crying, believe it or not, defense attorneys are people, too.
GRACE: Hey, I don`t care!
FURR: They have feelings.
GRACE: He can cry his head off!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: He`s going to be crying more after the trial. That`s just my prediction. Robin Sax, weigh in.
ROBIN SAX, PROSECUTOR: Well, I absolutely agree with you, Nancy. They will be crying after the trial. But I think that it`s absolutely most unprofessional, first of all, to cry and have emotions. I mean, criminal defense attorneys, criminal prosecutors are the most jaded, dark, thick- skinned people that you can see out there...
GRACE: No, Robin. You know what? I may have shed a tear or two. When you deal with murder, child molestation, arson all those years, you may shed a tear. But what I`m more concerned about -- I don`t mind Baez crying. At least he cares. But her looking away, crossing her arms in a hostile manner? At least, that`s what we hear.
Everybody, we`ll be right back on tot mom. Incredible video there in the jailhouse just after tot mom sees live coverage of her little girl`s skeleton being found. And she`s meeting with her lawyer. He`s crying his eyes out, and she`s got her arms crossed, looking away. I wonder what a jury will make of that?
But very quickly, I want to go to Geneva, Alabama. On the scene, a shooting, the biggest mass shooting in Alabama history starting in Samson, Alabama. To Lance Griffin with "The Dothan Eagle." Lance, what happened?
LANCE GRIFFIN, DOTHAN EAGLE: Well, we`re trying to piece all that together, but it appears what we had was just a man who snapped for whatever reason, killed his mother, and then went into another community and killed other family members, and then apparently started shooting people at random. And we don`t know why.
GRACE: With me, along with Lance Griffin from "The Dothan Eagle," is Kevin Cook, the PIO of the Alabama Department of Public Safety. Mr. Cook, thank you for being with us -- let me say Officer Cook. It`s my understanding he went on a murder tour, starting in one area and actually driving to another area. Was he taking shots at people along the way?
OFFICER KEVIN COOK, ALABAMA DEPT. OF PUBLIC SAFETY: Yes, ma`am. That is correct. We believe the incident started at County Road 474 in Kinston, where he murdered his mother, Lisa Watt McLendon.
GRACE: He murdered his own mother, Officer?
COOK: Yes, ma`am, he did. And then he set the house on fire.
GRACE: You know, setting the house on fire clearly shows that he knew what he was doing was wrong. This guy was not crazy. What type of weapons, Lance Griffin, do we know he had access to?
GRIFFIN: Well, apparently, he had two assault rifles in his possession, and he also had a shotgun and he had a .38-caliber pistol. And they believe he fired upwards of 200 rounds during a spree that lasted almost an hour.
GRACE: Lance Griffin, what was this nut job doing with two assault rifles?
GRIFFIN: We`re trying to find that out, and I think that`s a good question. And I know that people have said that he collected guns and that he had collected guns for some time. We`re trying to figure out if that`s true, and how long he had these guns.
GRACE: To Kevin Cook with the Department of Public Safety. Officer, thank you for being with us. They chased this guy down. He ultimately shot himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEP. JOSH MYERS, GENEVA COUNTY SHERIFF`S DEPT.: I cried so much yesterday, I don`t have a tear left in me. It still seems like I should be able to walk in the house and my wife should be there and my baby girl should be in there climbing on me. I mean, I never in my life am going to be able to truly understand it. I mean, I`m just going to have to take it one day at a time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever get a feeling up until this point something`s not right?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Well, actually, it`s June 16th.
(CROSSTALK)
GEORGE ANTHONY: That`s the last time that I saw my daughter and granddaughter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I got arrested on a (DELETED) whim today because they`re blaming me for something I never would do, that I didn`t do.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I love her dearly, and I want nothing more than for her to come home and to be safe and to be where she belongs with her family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Orange County Utility emergency dispatch. We found a human skull.
911 OPERATOR: Oh, my gosh!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s right off of Suburban and Chickasaw in the Caylee Anthony area, right by the...
911 OPERATOR: Oh!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the first time Casey has had an anxiety attack and asked for sedatives.
CASEY ANTHONY: I wish just none of this would have ever happened. I really wish that none of this would have ever happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know who the father of Caylee...
LEE ANTHONY: I do not know with 100 percent...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Certify.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight to Drew Petrimoulx, joining us from WDBO. Why won`t Lee Anthony answer who`s the baby daddy? What`s the big secret?
DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Well, right before he gets cut off by his lawyer, he says, I don`t know for 100 percent. His lawyer jumps in and cuts him off. So you know, this is lawyers for Zenaida Gonzalez. They want him to answer that question, if he knows who Caylee`s father is.
They also want him to answer the question, was he -- does he -- did he ever think that his sister, Caylee, could be involved in -- his sister, Casey, could be involved in Caylee`s disappearance -- excuse me, Nancy. They want to know that question, as well. There are two questions that they want answered.
GRACE: To Dr. Susan Lipkins. Susan, what do you make of the tot mom`s behavior after she learned of her daughter`s skeleton`s discovery?
SUSAN LIPKINS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I think that it`s fairly clear that she doesn`t really look at the baby as a human being and she`s angry that it was found.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Local 6 has learned exclusively that Casey Anthony and her attorney, Jose Baez, cried together the day news broke that a child`s remains were found in the woods. Their sobbing was caught on videotape recorded at the Orange County jail when Baez went to visit his client.
In a court document filed by Baez today, he acknowledges the tape, bringing up what he`s calling a, quote, "unauthorized videotaping of the defendant`s counsel while meeting with the defendant."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: He`s planning to file it. He hasn`t filed it yet. I don`t know what the hold-up is.
Back to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent with In Session. Jean, could you run through that timeline with me one more time because I`m kind of stunned. You know, I thought I`d seen it all. But she apparently watches live coverage of the discovery of her daughter`s remains, her 2- year-old little girl. She asks for medication for herself. Then she goes straight in to meet with Baez. He`s apparently sobbing inconsolably, and she`s sitting there with her arms crossed, looking off into space?
CASAREZ: This is what we heard in open court. First of all, they brought her to an area of the counseling center, a medical area. But it was the reception area, where someone in open court I heard, told her about the remains that were found. We don`t know the exact words. There`s a mounted camera in that reception area -- not in the counseling rooms, but in the reception area. That`s where she was told.
Jose Baez was there at the jail, wanting to see her, was not allowed in to see her yet, finally was allowed to see here. I can`t tell you if they switched rooms or not. If they stayed in that reception area together, that`s that mounted camera that just kept rolling. He didn`t have to, I don`t think, meet here right there, but it looks like he may have.
GRACE: Out to Detective Lieutenant Steven Rogers with Nutley, New Jersey Police Department, former member with the feds, the FBI. Detective, isn`t it true that all jail facilities and a lot of police departments have mounted surveillance videos? That`s not uncommon. If Baez couldn`t look up and see it and realize he was on at least video recording, that is their problem.
DET. LT. STEVEN ROGERS, NUTLEY, NJ, POLICE DEPARTMENT: Yes it is, Nancy. Those cameras are there not to spy on people. They`re there for safety reasons, as your reporter mentioned earlier.
GRACE: I wanted to go back out to Natisha Lance, our producer standing by there at the jail. What more can you tell me? I know that the defense is fighting the release of this video. It could be extremely damning to see her staring off angrily into space right after she finds out that her daughter is, in fact, dead.
They still haven`t filed a motion as we go to air. What`s the hold- up? And why -- I mean, the video must be bad if the defense doesn`t want it released and the state doesn`t mind.
LANCE: Well, Nancy, Jose Baez was given 15 days from that court hearing to be able to file a motion. Now, that time has not come up yet, but on that last day, he will have to file a motion if he wants this video -- if he wants the release of this video to be blocked.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER OF MISSING 5-YR-OLD HALEIGH CUMMINGS: Please, again, my daughter. Bring her home, please.
CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, MOM OF MISSING 5-YR-OLD HALEIGH CUMMINGS: Please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Balloons with notes to and about Haleigh were brought in before a news conference. Notes written by her family. In the news conference the justice coalition announced they have upped the reward money. Now it totals $35,000 and they`re hopping the money will prompt people to talk.
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, SPENT TIME WITH MISSING HALEIGH`S FAMILY: From the backdoor area, you can see that you have to walk up a ramp in order to get into the house. Now, what we do know is that Haleigh was afraid of the dark. And on both sides of the house there is densely wooded area.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Misty Croslin strolled out of the Putnam County courthouse Monday afternoon with her mother. She showed off her engagement ring Ronald Cummings, Haleigh`s father, gave her.
MISTY CROSLIN, RONALD CUMMING`S FIANCEE: He got down on his knees and everybody is probably going to take this marriage thing the wrong way, but it`s not. It`s still focused -- everything`s still focused on Haleigh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should we release anything that will bring Haleigh back, we`ll release it even if jeopardize the criminal investigation.
CUMMINGS: I only want Haleigh. That`s all I want.
SHEFFIELD: She`s out there. Mommy loves you. And your daddy loves you. And we miss you. And we`ll be right here (INAUDIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: GRACE: Little Haleigh snatched in the middle of the night. You`re seeing an exclusive look we had there in the home, trying to determine how far away girlfriend/babysitter Misty Croslin was actually sleeping when, apparently, an intruder came through that bedroom door and took the 5-year-old little girls off this used bed. Just about three feet away from the babysitter and little brother sleeping there in the big bed.
How did it happen? And now we learned the girlfriend/babysitter is set to marry Haleigh`s father. On the heels of that revelation, we learned that the biological mother, Crystal Sheffield, has now hired a lawyer. But why?
To T.J. Hart, the news director at WSKY 97.3. T.J., what can you tell me?
T.J. HART, PROGRAM & NEWS DIRECTOR, WSKY 97.3FM, COVERING STORY: Well, first of all, she got a hold of a spokesperson, and the spokesperson said that she was going to help her for free and apparently has lined her up with an attorney to help her to deal with the media.
GRACE: To deal with the media.
To Marlaina Schiavo, our producer, who has spent many, many hours with Haleigh`s family. Why do they need help dealing with the media?
SCHIAVO: Well, the family said that it`s been very difficult for them and they need help dealing with the media. But also, Kim Picazio, the attorney you`re talking about who`s representing Crystal Sheffield, is also going to be helping them doing a bunch of other things, coordinating independent searches for Haleigh, talking to authorities, and also she`s going to be looking into potential custody issues.
GRACE: When you say potential custody issues, Marlaina, translation, break it down, dear. Are you saying that the biological mother may fight for custody of the little boy, the little brother?
SCHIAVO: You got it, Nancy. They think that if Haleigh was taken, there`s a possibility that Junior, the younger brother, may be taken as well and they want to protect him in the future.
GRACE: With me, right now, is that attorney, Kim Picazio. She has an excellent reputation. She graduated summa cum laude from Florida State. She has been practicing over a decade.
Miss Picazio, thank you for being with us for your first interview.
KIM PICAZIO, ATTORNEY FOR MISSING HALEIGH`S MOM, FIRST INTERVIEW: Thank you, Nancy.
GRACE: . after the bio mom hires you. Why does Haleigh`s biological mother need a lawyer?
PICAZIO: Well, I was contacted, as your correspondent has stated, initially to handle the media. But then later we have found out through talking to people in the community and speaking with the police officers, et cetera, as well as speaking with the mother, that there may be some issues involving the minor child, Junior, is what they call the son of Crystal Sheffield, and his sister Haleigh with regard to whether or not he`s in the safest place in the home with the father.
GRACE: Miss Picazio, are you planning to launch a custody battle for the little boy?
PICAZIO: Well, at this time, I was just retained so I would need, of course, to explore all of the issues. I need to talk to everyone involved and so I guess what we first need to do is to go down or up to the town, speak with all of the officials and there are some things that give us grave concerns about the welfare of the child and about Haleigh when she is returned.
GRACE: OK.
PICAZIO: Hopefully safely.
GRACE: Miss Picazio, I understand your concerns. It makes perfect sense to me. If one child is snatched out of the home, what might happen to the next child? I understand that. But let me ask you this. Why did your client lose custody of Junior to start with?
PICAZIO: I need also the court records. I just pulled those today and I have not been down to the town. I`m going to be going tomorrow. And I would prefer to actually read the court documents as opposed to going what the renditions of the parties may be, which may be colored by just the perceptions and their emotions.
But I do know that the mother had retained an attorney prior -- after the original proceeding to seek a modification of custody. And it was my understanding that the mother was not aware of some very important hearings that she was to attend and I need to get to the bottom of that and then we can go from there.
GRACE: Miss Picazio -- everyone, Kim Picazio is joining us today from her first TV interview. She`s joining us out of Plantation, Florida and she has been hired by Haleigh`s biological mother.
Now, Miss Picazio, how long has your client not had physical custody of little Haleigh?
PICAZIO: It`s been for several years and it was -- actually we just found out today that the modification proceeding I don`t believe was ever filed. I need to speak with that attorney that was retained by Miss Sheffield to file that proceeding and I would have to defer to the court documents on that which I am in the process of obtaining.
But, again, there are grave concerns with regard to Junior and with regard to the household that Haleigh would be potentially returned to. There have, of course, been allegations but again, if you can imagine when you.
GRACE: Allegations of what?
PICAZIO: Allegations with regard to what was actually going on in that home prior to Haleigh disappearing and on that night. I mean we`ve got a situation you have a 4-year-old child in the home with a home that`s actually the -- the 7-year-old, I`m sorry, the 5-year-old child had disappeared right under the nose of the babysitter that then we learn is a teenage babysitter who is also living with the father in a romantic relationship.
This is not the first time that he has chosen a teenager to fall in love with and to live with and to watch his children.
GRACE: Are you suggesting, are you suggesting abuse on little Haleigh?
PICAZIO: I`m not suggesting that as of yet and we have not.
GRACE: I`m glad to hear it.
PICAZIO: . uncovered -- we have no uncovered anything as of yet and I`d like to do my own investigation. It`s my understanding the authorities are looking into every single avenue. But I have grave concerns again about the ability and the fitness of the parent who is going to consistently choose teenagers.
GRACE: Well.
PICAZIO: . to watch their children.
GRACE: Well, a couple of points, Miss Picazio, and believe me, I know you are a well-respected member of the bar. But I find it ironic that now is the time when the bio mom is trying to arrange all of her media requests, that she suddenly decides that Haleigh had been in a bad environment.
She`s certainly known all along who the father is dating and according to the judge in your client`s custody case, the mother, your client, did not have a job. The father did. Haleigh missed a total that we know of 12 doctor`s appointments while living with the mother.
Now maybe there`s an explanation for that, but I know the child has Turner syndrome and the mother not only didn`t have a job, but didn`t take the child to the doctor. It`s not like she was working all day and couldn`t make time to take the child to the doctor. I don`t understand that.
PICAZIO: Well, there`s also -- we have to look into the father`s history of taking the child to the doctor. Haleigh was never a child who was well. She had chronic pneumonia and bronchial problems and the father would often leave the children to a teenager who he was living with to drive this child to the doctor on a weekly basis.
GRACE: Why do you speak of Haleigh -- why do you speak of Haleigh in the past tense? I notice that you said Haleigh was a child with a lot of physical problems.
PICAZIO: Because she doesn`t have those physical problems anymore.
GRACE: OK, with me, everyone, Kim Picazio, attorney newly hired, attorney newly retained for Haleigh`s biological mother.
As we go to break, everyone, a very happy birthday to Mary Jane Allen (ph), an inspiration. She`s celebrating her 50th anniversary as an Avon rep, as a little girl, our Avon lady, Miss Mary Long. She`s married to a school bus driver just like my grandfather. They visit our home nearly every Saturday and sit down and have lunch with us.
You remind me of her, Mary Jane, happy birthday.
And tonight thoughts and prayers to Delray Beach, Florida friend of the show in the hospital, Miss Evelyn Tecker (ph). She never misses a show.
Evelyn, please stay strong and I hope they`ve got HEADLINE NEWS there in the hospital.
Case alert. It`s is the four-year anniversary of the Atlanta courthouse shootings. Brian Nichols overpowering a sheriff`s deputy, beginning a long and bloody rampage, leaving four dead. A memorial service today for family and friends of victims tonight.
We remember Judge Rowland Barnes, Deputy Hoyt Teasley, court reporter Julie Brandau and federal agent David Wilhelm.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROSLIN: If I have something, she wants it. So if we buy something for me, we buy the same thing for her. Our shoes, me and Haleigh had the same pair of shoes. She wanted me to have pink and white, the one just like her. So me and her are like pretty much -- we try to do everything together.
I just want to let everybody know that I was home, because I did pass my lie detector test saying that I was home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police told you you passed?
CROSLIN: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We learned tonight that the biological mother of little Haleigh has felt it important to hire a lawyer. But why?
Back to Robin Sax, Penny Douglass Furr, Daniel Horowitz.
Daniel, what do you make of it?
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t like it, Nancy. What I heard from that attorney is that this terrible incident is now being turned into an excuse to start a custody battle. And it`s not what it`s about.
There is a danger to this young boy who is still in the home. He should be out of there. But this attorney is essentially implying that something.
GRACE: You know what`s interesting, Horowitz?
HOROWITZ: . was done by this soon-to-be stepmother. Yes.
GRACE: You know, you and I were covering the Elizabeth Smart case at the same time, and I never heard you talking about them in this manner, that because Elizabeth Smart was taken out of the home in the middle of the night that all the children should be taken from their custody, never heard that.
Also never heard you say that in the Danielle Van Dam case out in California. She and her little brother asleep in the home in the middle of the night. She is taken by David Westmoreland (sic), the next door neighbor. You never said all of the children should taken away. Why now?
HOROWITZ: Well, because it`s a safety issue.
GRACE: Really?
HOROWITZ: It`s not a moral judgment on their part.
GRACE: Really? What`s the difference?
HOROWITZ: I think that there`s -- you don`t what.
GRACE: Because these people don`t have a lot of money and they live in a mobile home, so they should lose the children?
HOROWITZ: No, because somebody -- no, Nancy, you know better than that.
GRACE: Well, give me a reason.
HOROWITZ: It`s because -- because somebody got into that home.
GRACE: Yes?
HOROWITZ: . leaving no sign of entry, we don`t know who it is, but we suspect that it was somebody close to them because you don`t get a little kid.
GRACE: Oh, really?
HOROWITZ: . out of that house and know that the kid is there unless you know what`s going on. That`s why there`s still a danger.
GRACE: Sounds just like the other cases I just rattled off to you.
Robin Sax, what about it? If this were true every time a child is kidnapped, you could take the children away from the parents.
ROBIN SAX, PROSECUTOR, AUTHOR OF "PREDATORS & CHILD MOLESTERS": That -- you bring up an excellent point. I also think it`s an interesting point to think about whenever the defense attorney is advising a client. He would no doubt recommend that that client should absolutely have counsel representing them and shut your mouth and have counsel.
And I don`t think in this situation where you`ve got the best interests of the parents and the best interests of the child being evaluated by everyone in the media and by the court system that it`s surprising, actually, that she has a lawyer.
GRACE: Special thanks to Kim Picazio, speaking to us tonight for the first time, the attorney for Haleigh`s mother, Crystal Sheffield.
Very quickly, I want to give you the latest in the Drew Peterson case. Has an accomplice to the murder and possibly the disposal of the body of Peterson`s fourth wife emerged?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DREW PETERSON, WIFE STACY PETERSON MISSING: Eighteen months ago is when this happened so I`m stuck through that.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So you don`t think he`ll go to jail now?
PETERSON: No, no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Disturbing revelation in the search for missing Illinois mom, Stacy Peterson. Drew Peterson`s stepbrother saying that he may have unknowingly helped Drew Peterson dump her body.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: The man told a friend that he helped Drew Peterson haul out a large rectangular container which was warm to the touch and weighed about as much as Stacy would have.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three days before Stacy Peterson was reported missing, her sister Cassandra saw a blue container in Drew Peterson`s garage.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just stuck there in the middle of the walkway. It was a blue container. 30-gallon drum.
JOEL BRODSKY, ATTORNEY FOR DREW PETERSON: It`s just not the case that there was no blue barrel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Source say Drew Peterson`s friend, Rick Mims, testified before a grand jury that he and Peterson purchased three of the containers while working at a cable company. After Stacy went missing, he noticed two of the blue containers were no longer in Drew Peterson`s garage.
BRODSKY: Stacy`s sister said that there was a blue barrel of chlorine. Now we`re talking, now we`re told, there`s a blue container of cable. I mean, the story just is not consistent.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sources tell the paper that Morphey overdosed on sleeping pills shortly after he learned that her sister-in-law had vanished and he may have something to do with the disappearance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Is there an accomplice in the alleged murder of husband/cop Drew Peterson`s fourth wife Stacy. His third wife drowning and beating death in a dry bathtub. Now ruled a homicide.
Straight out to Kathy Chaney with "The Chicago Defender." Is there an accomplice and is that accomplice saying that he actually believes he helped Drew Peterson take Stacy Peterson out of the home in a blue barrel?
KATHY CHANEY, REPORTER, THE CHICAGO DEFENDER: Allegedly so. It`s Thomas Morphey, Drew Peterson`s step brother. He believes that he did inadvertently help Drew carry Stacy`s body out the day that she disappeared and he says that he signed an immunity deal with the Will County state`s attorney to let him know what he knows about the death.
GRACE: OK, Kathy Chaney, couple of quick questions. He helped, according to him, carry Stacy Peterson`s body out of the Peterson home when?
CHANEY: The night that she disappeared inside the blue barrel -- or it may have been the night before. But he believes that Stacy`s body was inside of the blue barrel that Drew asked him to help move.
GRACE: OK. Out to the lawyers, Robin Sax, prosecutor and author, defense attorney Penny Douglass Furr, and renowned defense attorney in the San Francisco area, Daniel Horowitz.
Daniel, doesn`t sound good when you call your stepbrother and you say, do you love me? How much do you love me? Do you love me enough to kill somebody? Well, do you -- no, OK, take that down a notch. Do you help me enough to help cover up a murder?
It looks bad, Daniel. What do you do with that at trial?
HOROWITZ: Well, I don`t believe Morphey for a second. You know his immunity agreement is based upon in telling the jury the same thing he told the police at the beginning. So he can`t even change at trial. He`s locked into one story that the police want. I don`t believe that you carry a big barrel.
GRACE: Well, wait a minute, Horowitz. Let me see Horowitz. Why would we want him to change his story? He`s not trying to change to his story. His story has been the same from the get-go.
HOROWITZ: Right, how about cross-examination, Nancy?
GRACE: Well, what about it?
HOROWITZ: The police.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Bring it on.
HOROWITZ: Well, you can`t change your story if you`re going to go to jail for changing your story. That`s perjury. And they`re basically saying.
GRACE: Well, Daniel, why do you think he`ll change his story? I don`t even know what you`re talking about. This is the same story that he gave at the beginning.
HOROWITZ: Well, what I`m talking -- that`s the point, under cross- examination, you may remember something differently or change. But he has to perjure himself. He has to stay to the original story even if it`s not true or he goes to jail.
GRACE: OK. You know what? I don`t know what got into your mug of tea out there in California.
But Robin Sax, nobody`s trying to change a story. This is what he said at the very beginning.
SAX: That`s exactly right, Nancy. The story and the fact that he says are pretty damning as you say. Here you have a situation where he is saying that he carried out either the night of or the night after Stacy Peterson was reported missing, a blue container that is corroborated to have been missing that has a weight and height that can contain a body, and he`s concerned not to tell the police that he thinks that he could have been involved in carrying Stacy`s body out.
I don`t know how you call that "inadvertent," though.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRODSKY: Morphey said, though, he`s -- he was quoted as saying that he feels betrayed by the state police and feels betrayed by the state attorney`s office. Obviously that means that they don`t think he`s credible either. They made that determination. That they haven`t taken him before the grand jury for that reason. And therefore, I`m not the only one. Drew and I are not the only people that say that Tom Morphey is not telling a truthful story.
The state`s attorney and the state police, by their actions, by not taking him before the grand jury, by cutting off contact with him, are also saying that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETERSON: Eighteen months ago is when this happened so I`m stuck through that. Right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you don`t think (INAUDIBLE) now?
PETERSON: No. No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. So this doesn`t worry you at all?
PETERSON: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No?
PETERSON: No, it didn`t worry me 18 months ago either so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Penny Douglass Furr, what do you make of it?
PENNY DOUGLASS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, the most important thing to me is the corroborating evidence. According to the brother-in- law, Drew Peterson told him to hold the telephone, Stacy`s telephone, and while he was murdering Stacy, he called twice.
The brother-in-law looked down and saw that it was coming from Stacy`s telephone. Now if those phone records show that exact same two calls at that time, I think it makes him a much more credible witness.
GRACE: But what do you do at trial, Penny? I mean, surely similar transactions may come in at trial. In other words, a jury in the murder case of Stacy Peterson may very well find out about wife number three, who drowned and was beaten in a dry bathtub, Kathleen Savio, while they were having a financial dispute following their divorce.
I mean, it`s all going to come in like a snowball. And now you`ve got this guy, Thomas Morphey.
DOUGLASS FURR: Well, I think Drew Peterson is a police officer, and so if he was going to get someone to help him dispose of his wife, he would get someone who was not credible.
GRACE: OK.
DOUGLASS FURR: He knows the man has problems.
GRACE: Listen.
DOUGLASS FURR: And so that`s who he would select.
GRACE: Who do you think that killers hang out with, Penny Douglas Furr, nuns and priests and virgins? No. They pick somebody that will go along with their plan.
Straight to -- I want to go to Dr. Marty Makary. There is one fly in the ointment for the state with this witness. He was apparently recovering from an overdose of Paxil and Xanax at the time that he got the immunity deal.
Do we care? Will that affect his testimony? How would that have affected him, his state of mind?
DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Well, the Paxil has nothing to do with it, but the Xanax is interesting.
GRACE: OK, what is Paxil? What is Paxil?
MAKARY: It`s an anti-depressant. It takes three to four weeks to work, so an overdose has no immediate short-term effect anyway.
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Christopher Fox, 21, Memphis, Tennessee, killed, Iraq, on a second tour. Awarded the Army Commendation Medal and Purple Heart. Boyhood dream, to serve his country.
Loved football, practical jokes, dreamed of studying criminal justice at U. of Tennessee and being a cop. Leaves behind stepdad Randall, four siblings.
Christopher Fox, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until, good night, friend.
END
