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Nancy Grace

Casey Anthony Defense Will Challenge Forensics

Aired April 24, 2009 - 20:00   ET


JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight with breaking news in the Caylee Anthony murder case. Tonight, for the first time since the state announces it is seeking the death penalty, Casey Anthony`s lawyer breaks his silence, taking us inside their strategy for trial. The defense says there is no cause of death, no witnesses to the crime, and no direct link between tot mom and Caylee`s remains.

Defendant Casey Anthony`s lawyers reveal they will go after the state`s forensic evidence, including hair samples found in Casey Anthony`s car, hair samples showing signs of human decomposition. They claim their own high-profile forensic expert found 17 hairs in the trunk showing no signs of a decomposing body. But what about the cadaver dogs and air samples from renowned Oak Ridge laboratory? Casey Anthony`s lawyers say it is nothing more than junk science.

While the defense tips its hand on the airwaves, there is still no explanation about the so-called nanny, Zenaida Gonzalez, who tot mom claims kidnapped Caylee, or why Casey Anthony goes an entire month without reporting her little girl missing. And also tonight, we have more of grandparents George and Cindy Anthony`s exclusive interview with CBS`s "The Early Show."


ANNIE DOWNING, CASEY`S FORMER BEST FRIEND: If Casey harmed Caylee, she didn`t do it alone. I know that for sure. Casey`s not that smart.

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: I think you guys need to seriously start looking at some of the things that this family is bringing to you with other things. Casey had to have had help, no matter what you think the scenario might be, so there are people that know information.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If this were about whether she was a good mother or a bad mother, she`d be convicted. This is a homicide case. There is still no eyewitness. There is still no forensic proof. There is still no confession.

JOSE BAEZ, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: She was fully aware that this was a strong possibility. And she`s aware of the forces that are out to get her.

DOWNING: She just said, I just want to go -- I need to get away. I need to -- you know, I feel like I`m having a breakdown. I just -- I can`t.

CINDY ANTHONY: We don`t know what happened to Caylee.

MAGGIE RODRIGUEZ, "THE EARLY SHOW": Well, we know that she was murdered.

CINDY ANTHONY: We don`t know. That`s the thing.


CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network In Session, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Inside tot mom`s defense strategy, and more of the CBS exclusive interview with grandparents George and Cindy Anthony.


CINDY ANTHONY: The baby-sitter took her a month ago. My daughter`s been looking for her. I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today, but I can`t find my granddaughter. And she just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her herself. There`s something wrong! I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car!

RODRIGUEZ: Do you regret making that call?

CINDY ANTHONY: No. I don`t regret anything I did. How can I?

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: Decomposition smell. Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you smelled that in the car?


BAEZ: If they think that this is going to make her plea, they`re sadly mistaken. They have no witnesses, no confession.

CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t think Casey will take a plea deal. You know, Casey`s not going to admit for something that she hasn`t done.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They don`t know the cause of death. They don`t know when the death was caused. They don`t know who caused the death. They don`t know how it happened.

GEORGE ANTHONY: You`d better get this over in five minutes. I`m giving you five minutes more of my time. Otherwise, sir, I`m walking out of here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is outrageous. This is outrageous.

CINDY ANTHONY: It`s not outrageous!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a court proceeding. This is going to be played at a trial at some date. For your own good, please stop.

CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: Can someone let me -- come on!


CASAREZ: And let`s go straight out to Drew Petrimoulx, reporter, WDBO radio there in Florida. So Drew, defense attorney Jose Baez has actually come forward, talking about what the defense is going to be in this case?

DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Yes. A focus on -- one of the things they`re going focus on is that wooded area where Caylee`s remains were found. He says -- defense attorney Jose Baez says there`s no evidence from there linking Casey to that scene. They also don`t know who killed Caylee. They also don`t know how Caylee was killed.

Another area the defense is apparently going to focus on is evidence that was found in her car. Some of the air samples that were taken from the car, the state says that they show there were signs of decomposition there. Jose Baez says that that science is based on unreliable techniques and it shouldn`t be allowed to be used in a case. It doesn`t prove anything as far as Casey.

Also, he says his own investigator who searched the car found evidence in there that the state didn`t find. So he says that also makes the state`s case a little bit more shaky.

CASAREZ: All right. Natisha Lance -- let`s go out to Natisha, producer for the NANCY GRACE show. Let`s just look at this one, two, three here. Number one, I see that they`re going to look at the wooded forestry area where the remains were found. They`re looking at the timeline of when the remains were placed there, that Casey may not have been the one to do that.

Number two, air samples in the trunk, that that was junk science that showed those air samples. And that`s the chloroform, remember. Number three, the hair in the trunk. There was a sign of decomposition on that hair shaft. But now they`re saying other hairs were found.

But Natisha, what about Zenaida Gonzalez? What did he say about that?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: You know, he`s really not talking about Zenaida Gonzalez right now, which is something else we`re going to have to address at some point. But we have been talking about her with the civil suit. Today, they did file some motions asking for those questions that George and Cindy Anthony did not answer in the deposition to be answered. And they will go to a judge to seek that on May 21st.

CASAREZ: You are exactly right, brand-new motions just filed by the civil attorneys in the civil case by Zenaida Gonzalez, compelling answers from George and Cindy Anthony in a court. I think there will be a hearing on that.

Let`s go out to the attorneys right now. First of all, Gloria Allred, victims` rights attorney advocate, attorney out of California, Bradford Cohen, defense attorney out of Florida -- that`s a good jurisdiction for us tonight -- and Doug Burns, defense attorney out of New York.

First of all, Gloria Allred, is this going to become a case centered around forensics, that forensics will determine whether or not there is a conviction or acquittal in this case?

GLORIA ALLRED, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Well, I think that`s going to be a very compelling, a very significant part of the case. And obviously, this is why the defense has to line up their forensic experts. That`s no surprise. They cannot hope to prevail in this case -- that is, to get an acquittal -- unless they have those forensic experts because the prosecution certainly does have them.

CASAREZ: Well, to Bradford Cohen, defense attorney in the jurisdiction of Florida. What do you think motivated Jose Baez to come out and really spell out what the defense is going to be? Because with so many cases, we don`t know until we get to trial what the defense is actually going to do.

BRADFORD COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And usually, that`s a smart thing to do. I think that everyone`s frustrated on the defense side with all these reports coming out that they feel are really damaging their client. They feel she can`t get a fair trial anywhere in this universe. So I think that that was what motivated him to come out and say some things that they`re going to use as a defense.

I don`t know if that`s a very good strategy. Usually, you keep that and you play it close to the vest. You don`t let them know. But it`s not really a secret that they`re going to be attacking some of the forensics. It`s not like the state attorney is not going to figure that out. I mean, there are some holes in the case. They know their holes, and I think that Jose Baez was just voicing those things. So I don`t think it`s going to hurt him in the long run.

CASAREZ: Right. And I think we probably already knew that was going to be the defense, what we`re hearing about. But it`s interesting to ponder that they have come out actively talking about it.

COHEN: I agree.

CASAREZ: But to Doug Burns, here`s my question to you in regard to all of this. They didn`t mention Zenaida Gonzalez. Zenaida Gonzalez is all through the discovery because that`s the person that Casey said from the beginning abducted her child. How is the defense going to deal with that? They`re going to have to deal with it, right?

DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You`re absolutely right. I mean, the way I see this is there`s good news for the defense and very bad news. The good news is no time of death, no manner, no specifics, no eyewitness, no confession. They can trumpet that around all day long. The bad news is there was another case like that, I don`t know if you ever heard of it, Scott Peterson.


CASAREZ: That`s right, which we all definitely have.

Let`s go to Sheryl McCollum, who is with us tonight, crime analyst, director of cold case squad, Pine Lake PD. You know, let`s talk about the hairs for a second in the trunk because there was one hair that there were signs of decomposition, but I believe there was not DNA on the shaft. It was a test that could have been either Casey`s or Caylee`s hair. But now 17 hairs showing no signs of decomposition. How do we know, though -- and they were found by Dr. Henry Lee. How do we know they were ever even tested for decomposition?

SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST: I don`t know that we do know that. But I`ll tell you, having those hairs in the trunk doesn`t mean a lot to me as far as the defense goes. That child was wrapped in a blanket that was hers and placed in that trunk. Those hairs could legitimately be there.

CASAREZ: All right. That is very, very interesting.

I want to go out to Dr. David Posey, medical examiner, forensic pathologist. So much information that you have that can help us tonight. You`re from Glen Oaks Pathology Medical Group. When you look at the wooded area and the timeline and you think about the botanists, the entomologists, which are the bug experts, that both sides are going to have, how difficult will it be to truly find out a timeline of when the remains were placed there?

DR. DAVID M. POSEY, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: I think it`s going to be quite difficult. Obviously, we don`t know how long they were there, and we don`t know how long the remains were exposed to the elements in that area. They can only go with what they have at the time they find the body and the remains. So they can reconstruct as to what they think is going on, but we need a lot more information, a lot more evidence in order to really reconstruct the timeline. I think they`re going to have a real difficult time getting a point when they say this body was placed in the site.

CASAREZ: So to Marc Klaas, victims` advocate, joining us tonight, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. You`ve seen so much. When you have a case that is so forensically based and something that can go either way, do you think there could be a case of reasonable doubt here?

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Oh, I don`t know. I doubt that there will be any reasonable doubt. I mean, everything seems to point to her. And you have this whole issue of Zenaida Gonzalez, which the defense seems to be afraid to even address. I think they`ve got a real high hill to climb if they`re going to be able to convince 12 jurors that Casey Anthony is not involved in the disappearance of her own daughter.

CASAREZ: Marc Klaas, of everything you have heard, what do you think is the strongest evidence for the prosecution?

KLAAS: Well, I think the strongest evidence for the prosecution is the 30-day time period between the time that the little girl was last seen by anybody else and the time that she was reported, and the statements that she`s made regarding Zenaida Gonzalez, the party pictures that were taken. It`s going to be incredibly difficult for the defense to put something up that people are going to find believable in lieu of all of that.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there any type of disagreement or discussion between you and your daughter, Casey. that night?

CINDY ANTHONY: Absolutely not. No.

JESSE GRUND, CASEY`S FORMER FIANCE: Her and Casey started having an argument about something, and I stuck up for Casey.

CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t know what your involvement is, sweetheart. You`re not telling me where she`s at.

CASEY ANTHONY: Because I don`t (DELETE) know where she`s at! Are you kidding me?

GRUND: Then she immediately just throws Casey under the bus, in proverbial terms, just lays her out there. How do you want to be with somebody who`s got no future? She didn`t even go back to get her high school education.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... you`ve seen in some reports. No altercation between you two?


You`re blaming me that you`re sitting in the jail? Blame yourself for telling lies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it fair to say your daughter`s lied to you?


CINDY ANTHONY: It`s fair to say the sheriff`s department lied to me about many things.

I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today, but I can`t find my granddaughter!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know why it would be, then, that the next morning, Casey would have left with her daughter and (INAUDIBLE)

CINDY ANTHONY: I have no idea.

There`s something wrong! I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car!

I mean, I know why Casey didn`t come back now, but I don`t know why Caylee didn`t come back.

I think you guys need to seriously start looking at some of the things that this family is bringing to you with other things. Casey had to have had help, no matter what you think the scenario might be, so there are people that know information.


CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network In Session, in for Nancy Grace. That was a voice-mail you just heard that Cindy Anthony left on one of the investigators` phones in July of last year, saying that she believed Casey must have had help. Help in what way, we don`t know.

But you know what`s interesting, go back to basics. Look at the indictment, the seven-count indictment that was filed in October. Count 2 and 3, aggravated child abuse and aggravated manslaughter of a child, both (INAUDIBLE) in the alternative that someone could have helped Casey Anthony or Casey Anthony could have omitted helping someone who was committing that on the child. Very, very interesting.

I want to go out to Natisha Lance. You know, so much this week has been about "The Oprah Winfrey Show" -- they were doing it, and then the CBS morning show they did, and then Oprah Winfrey said that they would not be doing the interview with her show. What`s the latest out of the Orlando area about that?

LANCE: The latest coming out about that is that Cindy Anthony apparently sent a text message to a local reporter there in Orlando, saying that she`s the one who canceled the interview with Oprah Winfrey for integrity reasons.

CASAREZ: OK. So we have "The Oprah Winfrey Show" saying that it was canceled, Cindy saying that she canceled it for integrity reasons.

Out to Gloria Allred, who has so much experience doing national shows all over the country. What do you get from someone choosing not to do Oprah but choosing to do CBS`s morning show?

ALLRED: Well, it may be that -- first of all, that they decide that it`s going to be a shorter appearance on the CBS morning show, so there`s less risk to themselves. But it may be that they just felt that Oprah would be too long, or maybe they thought they could do both. That`s possible. And perhaps it was an agreement. They didn`t keep the agreement. Or maybe they felt that the Oprah show somehow didn`t keep an agreement.

I don`t know what was in their minds. But you know, most people would like to be able to do Oprah. She goes to millions of people. On the other hand, CBS News also goes to millions. So it`s just a shame that there was this contretemps going on for them. They don`t need more controversy.

CASAREZ: That`s right, and we may never know the truth, right?

You know, back to Cindy Anthony saying in a voice-mail that Caylee (SIC) must have had help. I want to go to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter. He will be deposed, most likely be a witness in this case. What do you take from Cindy Anthony`s voice-mail back in July saying that Caylee -- Casey must have had help?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: That was her situation at the time, to try and wind somebody into the program. It`s like the tool expert that they brought in the other day. What they`re going to say is somebody broke into the tool shed to get the gas cans. It wasn`t Casey. That person also got the tape out of there, got the bags out of there. They`re trying to lay some groundwork for other people to be involved.

The forest there on Suburban, they`re going to start bringing out the fact that there`s two kinds of dirts on the body. There`s dirt from the local area, from somewhere else. There`s going to be a lot of stuff. They`re going to start going after Kronk and his stories about finding the body on the 11th, the 12th, the 13th, and December the 11th.

So they`re setting the groundwork to bring somebody else in. Whether it`s Jesse or Lazzaro, who knows. But that`s where it`s all coming from.

CASAREZ: But to Bradford Cohen, defense attorney out of Florida, some people would say, So what? Because even if somebody else would be involved, that does not negate the fact that Casey Anthony could have killed her daughter for many, many reasons. How can that help?

COHEN: Well, it`s true that it doesn`t negate the fact that she could have killed here, but it adds another level of reasonable doubt on, Well, what was her involvement? Was it after the fact? Was it something that she helped, you know, and it was an accident? There`s a lot of things that could come into play in that.

And it`s interesting because, you know, all these things that came out in the early stages about the gas can and the shovel and things of that nature that now aren`t in the forefront because they had really no relevance -- the body wasn`t buried and it wasn`t burnt. So I think that by bringing somebody else into it, or you know, the B suspect, bringing someone else into it, it does throw that other layer onto reasonable doubt and what role she actually had or played in the death.

CASAREZ: To Doug Burns, very short answer.

BURNS: Sure.

CASAREZ: The fact is, she had control of her car. We don`t know that anybody else had the keys. And that`s where the chemicals, the decomposition were. And to the house, everything that came from the house -- we know of no one else that had access with the key to that home.

BURNS: Yes, it`s sort of a question of burden of proof, as Marc Klaas is saying. I mean, you know, they`re in a tough spot on the defense side for now.



GEORGE ANTHONY: I know my daughter`s not leveling with me, and I know this is what she`s done in the past.

CASEY ANTHONY: All I want is Caylee home, but I want to be there when she comes home.

GEORGE ANTHONY: You know, I`ve got to believe her that she knows everything is OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you`d have told them the truth and not lied about everything...

CINDY ANTHONY: How come she never got a chance to get the car? It doesn`t make sense.


CINDY ANTHONY: I trust Casey, and I love her and I support her.


CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network In Session, in for Nancy Grace. Out to Drew Petrimoulx, WDBO radio. What is this about a "Law & Order" segment next week that sort of parallels this case?

PETRIMOULX: Yes. Apparently, there`s a show that that TV series is going to be running. It involves a case very similar. There`s a grandmother who goes to the cops saying her granddaughter`s missing. The daughter is kind of unresponsive to the whole case and doesn`t exactly tell the cops the truth. People that actually work for the show have said, Don`t follow it so closely, it`s not directly tied to this case. But at first glance, it definitely looks like there`s a lot of similarities.

CASAREZ: And that is video from of an upcoming episode of "Law & Order SVU" similar to the Caylee Anthony murder case.

To Leslie Austin, Dr. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist. When something like this comes to this magnitude that you even have television shows paralleling the case, does that affect the potential jury pool?

LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: It sure does. It pollutes the possible jury pool because people easily collapse the boundaries between a TV show and entertainment and reality. This is a legal process. You`ve got somebody here with a lot of disturbed behavior. So no matter how much they want to argue the technicalities on the forensics, you`ve got a very clear pattern of apparently callous behavior, lying about work, forging checks. So she doesn`t have much -- the defendant doesn`t have much credibility at all, and that to me would significantly outweigh the forensics. A TV show like this will even emphasize this even more.

CASAREZ: To Gloria Allred. Today at my own network, In Session, we were talking about this, and a lot of people were saying they thought that this was going to be bigger than the O.J. Simpson case. Your thoughts?

ALLRED: Well, whenever there`s a child involved, a child victim of murder, that certainly is something that most people are interested in and they want justice for that murder victim, for that child. So yes, it has received enormous coverage. NANCY GRACE show has done a terrific job in following each and every step of this case and analyzing it. So I think it could be big. I don`t know if it will be as big as the O.J. Simpson case.



GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: She`s taken money from my wife`s purse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. You started -- when is this?


G. ANTHONY: $20, $40, maybe more than that at a time.

SHIRLEY PLESEA: Maybe three or four months ago there was $354 missing out of my bank account.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An intense fight right before Casey left with Caylee in mid-June was over money that Casey had stolen from her own grandparents from an account dedicated to paying for assisted living expenses. Tensions had been building over the theft.

YURI MELICH, ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Did you tell Cindy what happened?

PLESEA: Yep, I told Cindy that.

MELICH: How did she take it?

PLESEA: She didn`t blame me. And she was sorry.

MELICH: Was she upset?

PLESEA: She said mom, we`ll pay you back. I said no, don`t pay me back, but if the bank wants to arrest her they`re going to. I would have pressed charges but for Caylee`s sake and for Cindy`s sake I didn`t want to.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said I`ve stolen money from you. You know I`ve been untrustworthy.

G. ANTHONY: Through deposit slips that she had forged a deposit slip for $4,400.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With your mother`s name on it? With her mother`s name on it?

G. ANTHONY: Yes, with our account.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You also know and have an understanding that your daughter had taken money from your mother, is that right?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when was that, and how much was that?

C. ANTHONY: I believe there was a $27 or 47, something, one time. And 200 and some dollars one time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she actually took money from your grandmother -- I`m sorry, from your mother, her grandmother, by writing a bad check. Is that your understanding?

C. ANTHONY: Correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did Casey ever take money from you by using your credit cards without your permission?

C. ANTHONY: It`s not relevant to this case.


C. ANTHONY: I`m not answering any question.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What finally prompted you, Cindy, to call the police?

C. ANTHONY: I could -- when I saw Casey, I could tell something was wrong.

There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you regret making that call?

C. ANTHONY: No. I don`t regret anything I did. How can I? I don`t know how I would react any differently. You know, I know after I made the first 911 call Casey thanked me in the car. Because she said I did something that she couldn`t do, was to go to the police.


JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network "In Session," in for Nancy Grace.

Civil attorneys for Zenaida Gonzalez have just filed a motion with the court asking the civil judge to compel George and Cindy Anthony to answer those questions that they refused to answer several weeks ago in their deposition.

So what will happen, there will be a hearing, the judge will determine if the answers are relevant to the civil case. So stay tuned. We may hear more answers.

Want to go out to Natisha Lance, producer for the NANCY GRACE show. Natisha, the state has filed a supplemental witness list, and I for one was surprised with some people on it.

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: There are. There are some very interesting people who are on there, some people with firearms, tool marks, as well as some witnesses with the wildlife group there in -- in Florida. Some veterinarians who are on that list. So everyone is really eager to see what these witnesses are going to be used for.

CASAREZ: Well, let`s try to understand that through Dr. David Posey, medical examiner, forensic pathologist, with us tonight. Thank you so much.

First of all, Brandon Giroux is one of the witnesses, and he is an expert in firearms and tool marks from the FBI in Quantico, Virginia. What could he testify about?

DR. DAVID M. POSEY, MEDICAL EXAMINER, GLEN OAKS PATHOLOGY MEDICAL GROUP: Well, I think the tool mark expert is going to be looking for any extraneous evidence that will be found on the body, on the packaging. He may even go to the car, to the home, looking for any little evidence that can start to link cause of death, potential cause of death, or any kind of injury to the body.

I think that`s what they`re looking for to try to tie these things together. Because I really think that they want to take and tie the defendant to placing the body at the scene. And that`s where I think this tool mark expert is going to come in.

And if there is evidence there, he`ll find it because those are really good experts to have because it`s a special area of trace evidence that they specialize in.

CASAREZ: Now I heard you just say injury to the body. We don`t know what caused this little girl`s death. So you think that they could try to be linking some things to go toward that via the prosecution`s theory?

POSEY: Yes. We don`t -- we`ve never seen the autopsy report. We don`t know really what they have. And until we find out what they have, it`s conjecture, and there may be things there, little bits of evidence that they want to go and try and link.

Sometimes those little pieces of evidence, second, third, and fourth looks, will bring about a big conclusion. So I think that`s what they`re going for. They`re trying to put these little pieces together to try and give them a real solid case when they present it before the jury.

CASAREZ: Fascinating. All right. I have another question for you. Another witness on this supplemental list, Barry Baker from the U.S. Department of Interior, specializing in fish and wildlife service, forensic scientist.

What are they going to do? And I bet they will go to the scene. Right? That`s where their testimony will center around?

POSEY: I think so, yes. They`ll have to go to the scene. I think so much of this is going to be around the scene where Caylee was found, and they`re going to be looking for anything that`s out of place.

They know what`s supposed to be there. They know what the environment`s like. And all the little ecosystems within the environment. And they`re going to go and they`re going to probably dissect it, you know, probably centimeter by centimeter. Maybe I`m being too tight on it.

But they`re going to look at it real, real closely to see if there`s anything out of place, because what they want to find is if there`s evidence on the packaging, on the bag and so forth that doesn`t fit that environment then they`re going to have to look elsewhere and that will then lend to the fact the body was moved from one point to another point after Caylee died.

CASAREZ: And could wildlife have begun to go into the remains and that could even help with the timeline possibly?

POSEY: Oh, of course. All of those things are going to be put together. You know, it might be a wildlife, be it insect or what have you or even plant life that doesn`t belong in that ecosystem, that environment where she was found and belongs someplace else, you know, miles away from the site and consequently then they can say all right, now we`ve got a link.

We`ve got -- we know the body was moved here at some other time and the body was at another location for some period of time during the decomposing process.

CASAREZ: All right. To Marc Klaas, I want to ask you this. President and founder of KlaasKids Foundation. The benefit that we`ve been hearing about all week in Connecticut, I believe. Nancy has spoken there. You have spoken there. The Anthonys were set to speak.

What`s happened in all that?

MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, there was a concerted effort by certain individuals on the Internet to get the Anthonys -- uninvited to that conference and basically over security reasons because the conference does take place in a state facility, a secure state facility.

The Anthonys have been uninvited. So they will not be appearing at the conference. And I can tell you, Jean, if the victims movement were able to mobilize as effectively as that campaign to vilify the Anthonys was able to mobilize, we would have had a victims` rights amendment to the U.S. Constitution years ago.

CASAREZ: Wow. That`s amazing. Gloria Allred, I have to ask you before we go to break, we hear the Anthonys talking about their support to Casey and how much they miss Caylee. Have we heard a lot about Justice to Caylee in this situation from the family?

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ADVOCATE, ATTORNEY: I think not. And I don`t think that they`re really able to say that perhaps in a convincing way because they have been so very, very supportive of their daughter rather than their granddaughter.

Perhaps they have a conflict because if, in fact, she is being prosecuted for murder of her -- of her daughter then they really do have to take sides or say nothing. They`ve chosen to speak, and they`ve chosen to be supportive of their daughter rather than their granddaughter.



C. ANTHONY: She`s presumed innocent. You know, the facts have not all come out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But people have said some things about her character. They`ve said that she was a liar, and that was well documented. Why should people believe her now when her life is at stake?

C. ANTHONY: Well, her life is at stake. All we can do is stand behind our daughter. You know? That`s all we can do right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Unflinching support?

C. ANTHONY: Unflinching support. I believe in her.

G. ANTHONY: You know, there are some people that say well, we should just be done with it. Just -- you know like this and just be done with it. You can`t. That`s our daughter. You know?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No matter what she may or may not have done?

G. ANTHONY: No matter what, that`s still our daughter. No matter what.


CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network "In Session" in for Nancy Grace.

That was part two of the CBS "Early Show`s" exclusive interview with grandparents George and Cindy Anthony.

To George Padilla, who was a bounty hunter and will be deposed in this case upcoming, George, I know you`re going to disagree but -- Leonard. But how could parents say anything but what they said the other day?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, WILL BE DEPOSED IN TOT MOM CIVIL CASE: Well, let me see if I can put it to you this way. When this case first started and I got involved, I have a daughter and three grandsons, and she said that if something happened to one of those kids and I thought that she had something to do with it she would not be afraid of law enforcement. It was her concern that I would come down on her.

I think that Cindy and George at this point are making a mockery out of their own parenthood of Casey. Somewhere along the line they`re going to have to come out -- the public wouldn`t be upset if they said hey, look, she`s our daughter, we`re going to back her through hell and brimstone, we don`t care.

The public would back them. But to sit there and try to convince the public that the public doesn`t know what the truth is, is wrong on their part, and it`s making a mockery of their parenthood of this thing.

CASAREZ: Well, Leslie Austin, psychotherapist. Dr. Leslie Austin, agree?

DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Absolutely. As usual, Leonard and I are right on sides. My bigger concern is not that they`re making a mockery of their parenthood but that they are really distorting the legal process by trying this case in the media.

What the public thinks of Casey is irrelevant. What the evidence presents is all-important. And to try and taint public opinion or -- the question is not is this going to be bigger than O.J. but what does it mean that it`s bigger than O.J. and what is the public`s preoccupation with this as a drama rather than letting it be a legal case?

That`s where the parents are playing into this in a very negative way.

CASAREZ: And to Doug Burns, defense attorney out of New York. You know, it`s one thing being in the state of Florida, because their laws allow public access to all of this. Every jailhouse conversation we`ve seen, every bit of discovery.

But would you advise your clients to go and do interviews at this stage of the game? Do you think that`s good for a potential jury pool?

DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, I would not. But here, I think, there`s at least arguably a counterpoint to it, which has been said earlier this evening, which is, you know, if you`re taking this pounding in the national media night after night there`s an argument that you`d better get out there and start counterpunching.

But again, you know, to me, when he says no matter what it`s still my daughter, I mean, my god, that`s not helpful.

CASAREZ: OK. Does that -- to Bradford Cohen, defense attorney straight out of Florida. Do you think that that will create a challenge for their credibility as a witness when they take the stand?

BRADFORD COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, I think all their stories that were changing and statements that they were made is probably going to cause a challenge.

The problem is that the more you talk and the more you come up with different angles and different stories, that could cause a problem when they take the stand, although this is not sworn testimony. It may be used to impeach if they say something different on the stand.

You never know what the judge is going to allow in. That`s really where the big mistake would happen. And that`s why you normally tell everyone just keep your mouth shut and let`s go straight for trial and let`s do the work that we have to do behind the scenes instead of everyone going out there and coming up with different theories and different ideas. It`s best to keep your mouth shut.

CASAREZ: What do you think, Gloria Allred? You`ve represented so many high-profile clients. You`re so well tuned into all of this. Would you have your client give so many public statements?

ALLRED: No, I wouldn`t have had the parents be out there in the way they have been out there. In a way they`ve been freelancing and acting as their own attorneys from the start and saying a lot of things which have ended up getting them in trouble because they`re going to end up getting -- having statements presented to them, perhaps getting impeached on those statements.

Maybe they weren`t really clear in some of the things that they said early on. Maybe they were confused. Sometimes they were being very, very honest. Other times they just kind of wanted to support their daughter and be advocates.

So yes, I think that at this point they need to leave it to the lawyers and not really get out there themselves. I don`t think that it really is going to be helpful to their daughter, and that`s who they`re trying to help at this point.

CASAREZ: And to Marc Klaas, president of KlaasKids Foundation. You know, when you look at them as witnesses and you see the inconsistencies but there`s one thing that is consistent and they both said that the trunk of the car smelled like a dead body, and there`s a question whether it will come in.

I think it will. Because of an excited utterance in the law. Do you think that`s the main point of these witnesses?

KLAAS: I think that what they`re going to end up doing is connecting three different crime scenes. They`re going to connect the car to the woods to the home, with the garbage bags, with the smiley faces, with the tape, et cetera, et cetera.

And once they`re able to do that, this is a slam dunk because there`s only one individual who had access to all of those locations, and that`s Casey Anthony.

CASAREZ: That`s right. To Natisha Lance, NANCY GRACE producer. Jose Baez is doing depositions, which he has a right to do in Florida under the law. He`s got some upcoming ones first week in May, right?

LANCE: He does have some upcoming depositions. Now, one of the things also, Jean, is he has filed this motion for cell phone records from several of the state`s witnesses, one of those being Amy Huizenga and another one being Roy Kronk.

They are fighting that motion from Jose Baez saying that his motion is too broad and they don`t want to turn over all their cell phone records. So we also have yet to hear about that from the judge.

CASAREZ: That`s a good point. To Bradford Cohen, defense attorney in Florida. When you draft a motion asking for cell phone records, Internet records, texting, pinging, all of that, do you in Florida make it limited, a duration in time, or broad like Jose Baez did it?

COHEN: I think any attorney anywhere in any state would make it as broad as possible and let them argue to narrow it down. You want to see everything that happened during a certain time period. They may ask for more than that so that the state may object and say hey, listen, we`re only going to give you x, y, and z.

Why make it x, y, and z right off the bat? See what else is out there. Discovery rules are very liberal in every state I would imagine except for -- you know, in terms of depositions. But in terms of asking for things, why not ask for more than what you expect and then let them narrow it down?

I think he`s going to be looking at who they were calling, when they were calling them, and who they were contacting, which I think is very relevant to the defense.

CASAREZ: All right. So something very positive for Jose Baez in how he drafted that motion. Something he should have done.

Sheryl McCollum, crime analyst, out there. When you look at the forensic evidence, this is going to be a forensic case. If you were on the side of the prosecution right now, what would you be doing even more forensic evidence in?

SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST, DIR. OF COLD CASE SQUAD AT PINE LAKE P.D.: Oh, I would stay with the car, and I would stay with the house, and I would stay with the wooded area. And obviously, you know, the best thing they`re going to have is the child`s body herself.

And the number one thing they`re going to be looking at to do is what we`ve already said. They`re going to start tying everything back to Casey. It`s going to come down to means, motive, and opportunity.

CASAREZ: All right. Very good. And now, "CNN HEROES."


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Heroes.

ANDREA IVORY, MEDICAL MARVEL: In 2004 I was diagnosed with breast cancer. Initially, there`s shock. But I realized how blessed I was to have health insurance. It made me think about all the women who didn`t have health insurance. I wanted to make a difference in their life.

I`m Andrea Ivory and I`m fighting breast cancer in South Florida one household at a time.

The Florida Breast Health Initiative is an outreach organization. We`re targeting working class people. We`re going to make a difference and save some lives.

We have a take-it-to-the-street approach. We feel like little pixies spreading breast cancer awareness.

Can I ask you a few questions?

We target women that are 35 years or older and make appointments on the spot for a free mammogram. I look forward to seeing you. I`ll be there. Bringing the mobile mammography van into the neighborhoods is one of the most important facets of the work that we did.

Let`s go.

Is the lady of the house at home? We`re giving a free mammogram on the 25th. That`s easy. I`m like, OK, that`s all. OK. Thank you so much. Take care.

I was saved from breast cancer to serve other women. Every time I knock on the door, it`s another opportunity to save a life.


ANNOUNCER: CNN Heroes is sponsored by.


CASAREZ: And now, a look back at the stories making the rest of the headlines this week.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: The Anthonys heading for the biggest game in town. That`s right. Oprah. In a bizarre twist, the Anthonys agreed to appear on the CBS morning show and Oprah Winfrey says let`s call the whole thing off.

C. ANTHONY: George and I are living the same nightmare. A lot of people don`t know I was there, too. I wrote suicide notes back in July and August.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New details emerged in the case of 8-year-old Sandra Cantu who police believe was murdered by Sunday school teacher Melissa Huckaby.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a prior case of a child under the age of 10 that was drugged and there is an implication that Melissa Huckaby was involved.

KLAAS: I think they`re starting to peel back the onion that is Melissa Huckaby.

GRACE: Freak. That`s what you`re going to find at the core of the onion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re here to announce the arrest of Philip Markoff, 22 of Quincy. He`s been charged with the murder of 26-year-old Julissa Brisman.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She sustained blunt head trauma to her skull. Three gunshots at close range. The bullet that went through her (INAUDIBLE) heart according to the medical examiner would have caused her death immediately.

C. ANTHONY: I don`t think Casey would take a plea deal.

PADILLA: It`s a family that`s into drama and they never want to tell the truth.

C. ANTHONY: Casey`s not going to admit to something that she hasn`t done.

PADILLA: She doesn`t want to tell the people she killed her daughter because her mother damned near killed her the night before by choking on her. They`re just full of lies.


CASAREZ: Let us stop to remember 43-year-old Army Master Sergeant Anthony Davis from Deerfield Beach, Florida. Davis served 26 years in the army and was helping to renovate schools and deliver food and supplies to Iraqis in need. He lost his life in a humanitarian mission.

Davis loved giving Iraqi children soccer balls, sending cards back home to the family, bowling, running and dancing with his wife. He leaves behind 16 siblings, grieving widow Anna, five children and a 4-year-old grandson.

Anthony Davis, an American hero.

Thank you so much to all of our guests and to you at home for being with us. See you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, everybody.