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Nancy Grace

Caylee Anthony`s Autopsy Report Publicly Released

Aired June 19, 2009 - 20:00   ET


JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight with breaking news in the Caylee Anthony murder case. The autopsy report -- it has just been released and we have it. For the first time, we go inside Caylee Anthony`s autopsy findings. There is new information you will hear tonight that has never before been released. This document was made public today, moments after grandparents George and Cindy Anthony made an emotional plea in open court to keep it sealed, the autopsy report a torpedo to the state`s case. The 2-year-old Florida girl`s remains fully skeletonized, exact cause of death could not be determined and toxicology testing reveals no drugs in Caylee`s system.

But in a stunning twist, it also concludes Caylee`s body was dumped in that heavily wooded area near the Anthony home soon after last being seen alive, thus debunking a potential defense theory that someone tried to set up Casey Anthony by placing the remains there while she was behind bars. But is the autopsy enough to send Casey Anthony straight to Florida`s death row?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Another hearing in the Casey Anthony case, in this saga...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: While the autopsy is a public record, the slain toddler`s grandparents filed a motion arguing to have the report sealed. George and Cindy Anthony say releasing the results would cause the Anthony family, quote, "great anguish."

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: My wife and I come before you today and ask you to consider our family`s concern for the public release of our granddaughter`s autopsy report. Our family`s memory of our precious Caylee Marie is all we have left of her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caylee`s grandfather`s emotion was clear when he addressed the court.

GEORGE ANTHONY: Our family is still hurting and grieving the loss of Caylee Marie, and if the court will allow, Judge, please, give us some peace and show us some dignity by keeping this report sealed. And I apologize (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cindy and George are just being dramatic about the whole thing. What they don`t want is for anybody to say the airways (ph) in the body were still expelling and something into the tape or the hair particles have certain things in them or things of that nature. That`s what they`re afraid of.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re not afraid of the autopsy report. That`s not the point. We are talking about (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If the Anthonys are so traumatized by this, quit going on national TV and talking about it. That solves that problem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Anthonys came, Mr. and Ms. Anthony, personally (INAUDIBLE) legally the anguish that they feel (INAUDIBLE) for whether or not this information should be released. I don`t like the ruling that I`m making. I`m going to deny your motion to restrict disclosure. But I think it`s one that I legally have to make.


CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network In Session, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Caylee Anthony`s autopsy report -- we`ve got it. It has finally been made public.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Florida judge Stan Strickland rules Caylee Anthony`s autopsy report can be released publicly.

CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: I am upset now. I`m completely upset. One, the media`s going to have a fricking field day with this!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you say it?

GEORGE ANTHONY: This last year has been an emotional strain on my entire family and including Caylee`s great-grandparents. The protection of our family`s right to privacy and our emotional well-being, as all of you know, has been tossed aside over and over again. Although the public has a right to know...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey, where`s Caylee? (INAUDIBLE) her remains!

GEORGE ANTHONY: ... we, as a family, are asking the court to hold off releasing the details of the report until it becomes necessary at the time of our daughter`s trial.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They know once the trial starts that that will be released, but they don`t want to have to go through the anguish, as they say, of having the media pick it apart.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Anthonys have been on television every chance they get. Now they want confidentiality?

GEORGE ANTHONY: We believe that allowing the medical (ph) to be released publicly, display of the report at this time will allow others to dissect, misinterpret and sensationalize the information, which will ultimately tarnish Caylee`s memory (INAUDIBLE) emotional (INAUDIBLE)

CINDY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S GRANDMOTHER: That was a painful time in my life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first time I saw it, I didn`t think it was real, you know? And I looked at it and I examined it, and I saw the duct tape and I saw the eye sockets, and I realized what it was. And I went, Oh (DELETED)

CINDY ANTHONY: That was a cruel thing in my life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anguish is not a legal basis to stop the publication of this public record.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not happy to make the ruling. In fact, I wish I didn`t have to. But it`s not (INAUDIBLE) Legally, we have to. So the motion to restrict disclosure is denied and the items can be released.


CASAREZ: Let`s go straight out to Natisha Lance, live in Orlando, Nancy Grace producer. You were in the courtroom today. This a very important hearing today. What did you see?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Very important hearing today, Jean. Well, the judge did allow for the autopsy report to be released today. George Anthony gave testimony, very emotional testimony, as we heard in that open. He was asking for the judge not to release these -- release the autopsy report, saying that the memory of Caylee is all that their family has left and please do her this dignity.

Now, Judge Stan Strickland was very torn about his decision. He said it wasn`t a decision that he wanted to make, but based on law, he had to make this decision. I sat right behind George and Cindy Anthony. Both of them were very emotional. George Anthony was -- seemed very anxious right before he went up to take -- give his testimony. Cindy Anthony, while he was giving his testimony, had her head down in her hand. Her other hand was shaking and she was just shaking her head. And before court was actually adjourned, George Anthony had to leave the room. He seemed visibly upset by the decision.

CASAREZ: You know, Natisha, I noticed he had a picture of Caylee with him in a frame. There it is right there. You saw that?

LANCE: He did. He did. He had that picture and he was rubbing it and he kept looking down at her face. Cindy was trying to comfort him as much as she could. They also were wearing those Caylee Anthony buttons. And I spoke to Brad Conway after court today, and what -- he said that he was upset and sad for his clients, but he did hope that by the release of this autopsy report, that it would end some of the media speculation that has been going on and clear a few things up.

CASAREZ: And this was a legal hearing. The result was the autopsy report was released hours after that. It was made public.

Let`s go to Kathi Belich, reporter of CNN affiliate WFTV. Kathi, you`ve been on this case from the very beginning. You`ve read the autopsy report. Give us your highlights.

KATHI BELICH, WFTV: Well, I think the most damning information that came out of this autopsy report was that there were several layers of duct tape that were placed over the mouth and jaw area of Caylee. They were found there stretched across to her hair on both sides. Our legal analyst believes that that shows that it wasn`t an afterthought, that it was possibly to quiet her or to stop her from breathing. We also saw that the experts performed tests on pizza and even a dead squirrel to see if they would show results that they found in the trunk of Casey`s car, and that turned out not to be a similar situation at all.

CASAREZ: To Dr. Michael Bell, Palm Beach County chief medical examiner. You perform autopsies for a living. Normally in autopsy reports -- and I`ve read a lot of hem -- there are external findings. There are internal findings of the organs in the body. Here you didn`t have that. You had simply bones, you had some hair and you had some duct tape. What are your thoughts, after reading this autopsy report?

DR. MICHAEL BELL, PALM BEACH COUNTY CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, you`re absolutely correct. There is no external or internal findings because all you have is a skeleton, as well as whatever was found with the skeleton. That includes the duct tape, which was placed over the child`s mouth and held the mandible, the jawbone, to the skull so that animals could not normally separate it. So therefore, the tape had to have been placed in that position prior to the breakdown or decomposition of the body.

CASAREZ: And I think that`s one of the remarkable things from this autopsy report, is that bones were scattered all over that wooded area, but the skull remained intact, it said, because of duct tape that covered it and covered the hair.

Let`s go out to a caller. We`ve got a lot of them tonight. Laura in Indiana. Good evening, Laura.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Thank you for taking my call.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is about regarding the duct tape. They speculated a lot that there might be fingerprints found on the inside of it and I just wondered, did the autopsy result show any fingerprints or evidence of that?

CASAREZ: All right, well, that`s a good question, Laura. I think during the autopsy, they collected that duct tape. It was then sent for testing after that, forensic testing.

To Nikki Pierce, reporter, WDBO radio. Any results from that, at this point?

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: There are no results from that at this point. All that we have heard is that there are no fingerprints on that duct tape. So we don`t have that information, unfortunately.

CASAREZ: But don`t remember -- don`t forget, there was sticky residue in a heart shape that was found during the forensic testing for prints from the FBI lab, heart-shaped sticker they believe was placed on top of multiple layers of duct tape.

Back to Dr. Michael Bell, forensic pathologist, chief medical examiner. When you look at all of the bones that were everywhere, it was a remarkable investigation, wasn`t it? For eight days, they collected bones. They found so many. They found all of the teeth except one.

BELL: That is correct. Some of the bones that they didn`t find were, as you might expect, the smallest bones, bones in the hands and the feet and also the hyoid bone.

CASAREZ: One thing, though, is the toxicology. There were no drugs found in toxicology tests. But when I think about a body and I think about lungs and soft tissue and blood, there was none of this. This had to be a very difficult specimen for a toxicology test.

BELL: Yes. In fact, they actually had the toxicologist present to help or assist them in getting specimens for testing. And all they really had available to them was the spongey part of the bone, the hair. And they even went so far as to try to wash out the inner surface of the skull in order to perhaps get some remnants of brain residue.

CASAREZ: Doctor, can we actually conclude beyond a degree or medical certainty that there was no drugs in this little girl`s system at all?

BELL: No. I think we`re limited by what the specimens that we have, and no, I don`t think you can say 100 percent that there were no drugs present.



NANCY GRACE, HOST: Doctor, explain to me whether hair can reveal the presence of chloroform poisoning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think if it`s been used over and over, you can see it in chronicity (ph). I think...

GRACE: Whoa, whoa! Wait! What? What did you just say?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, in chronicity. You know, it takes time for the chloroform to get into the hair and the hair has to grow out of the follicle. And so if we`re saying in this case, for example, there was just one incidence where the chloroform was used to knock her out, tape her mouth and so forth, it may not get into the hair. So we`ve got to look at the fat, the skin.

GRACE: Dr. Makary, what about Xanax or chloroform over an extended period of time? I don`t necessarily mean that day, the day that she died.

DR. MARTY MAKARY, JOHNS HOPKINS: Yes, that`s a good point, Nancy. If it were taken over a period of time, such as a couple of weeks, it could show up in hair. Basically, it needs to grow in the hair follicle. So it would be those weeks as hair grows out. Otherwise, a single dose or an overdose or a lethal does would not be detectable in hair samples.

GEORGE ANTHONY: I hope that I am the one that actually taught her "You Are My Sunshine." She was my sunshine. I have a locket right now with me and it has "My sunshine, my Caylee" on it. When that was placed on me just a few days ago, the warmth inside of me -- I felt her not only every day, but I really felt her more and more.


CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network In Session, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Reading from the autopsy report, quote, "This child`s remains were eventually found in a wooden, overgrown area, discarded with two trash bags and a laundry bag."

Straight out to Natisha Lance, Nancy Grace producer. Talk to us about the roots, large and small, that were growing through the decomposed skeletal bones.

LANCE: Based on those roots, Jean, what they have determined is that the remains had to have been there much longer than a few weeks. They are assuming that those remains were there not too long after the last day Caylee Anthony was found, which was June 16th of 2008. Now, those roots were growing out of the bones, out of the vertebrae, also out of that trash bag that was found with some of the remains intermixed in there along with soil, along with silverfish, along with leaves and other debris.

CASAREZ: That was her skeletal remains. That`s what it was found with -- the small roots, two to three months, the large roots, three to six months, showing the body had been there. Remember, the body had to become skeletonized before the roots could go through.

To Kathi Belich, reporter, WFTV. Talk to us about the cloth letters that were found within the bags.

BELICH: George Anthony said he -- Caylee was wearing a pink shirt the last time he saw her alive, which he said was June 16th. There were pink cloth letters, possibly applique letters, that matched the color of the shirt, parts of the shirt that were found also with the remains. And the letters were scattered among the remains, but put together, they basically spelled out, "Big trouble comes small," and the letters got progressively smaller as the saying went on, "Big trouble comes small."

CASAREZ: "Big trouble comes small," normally something we laugh at, but "Big trouble comes small." And those were with her remains.

To Angel from Kentucky. Good evening, Angel.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you so much for taking my call.

CASAREZ: You`re welcome.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First off, I`d like to say that my condolences go out to George and Cindy. I couldn`t imagine being in their position. But my question was that I heard earlier that the duct tape that they had, you know, proven that it was probably put on before decomposition -- do they know if it was before that she had passed away or could it have been put on after she had already died?

CASAREZ: I think that conclusion was in the autopsy report. Dr. Michael Bell, Palm Beach medical examiner, what did the autopsy report say?

BELL: No, it didn`t conclude that. It didn`t make any determination of whether it was placed or after the child died. It only said it was placed on before the body decomposed.

CASAREZ: All right. And tonight`s "Case Alert." The focus in the search for a missing 2-year-old Indiana toddler turns to the baby-sitter- slash-cousin last seen with the little girl. Two-year-old Jada Justice reported missing Tuesday night by 18-year-old Angela Castillo (ph). Castillo claims she took Jada to a Gary (ph) Conference (ph) store and quickly ran inside to buy milk. But when she returned, the toddler girl was gone. Now investigators and family members say Castillo`s story just does not add up. Canines unable to pick up Jada`s scent at that convenience store. Little Jada 2 feet, 2 inches, 35 pounds, with brown eyes and black hair. If you have information, please call the FBI hotline at 1-800-CALL-FBI.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know that there was no flesh and no hair attached to the duct tape, yet that`s what goes out to the media and that`s what people assume to be true. And that`s the unfair part, is that this young lady has not had her opportunity in court yet, yet people have drawn conclusions from discovery that`s out there. Discovery is documents that are put forth by the state, testing, statements, written statements, oral statements, taped statements. But evidence is what happens in court.


CASAREZ: And we can confirm to you with this autopsy report released today there, in fact, was duct tape, and it in fact, was attached to the hair that was left on that skull.

I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network In Session, in for Nancy Grace tonight. The autopsy report also states, quote, "Although there is no trauma evident on the skeleton, there is duct tape over the lower facial region, still attached to the head hair. The duct tape was clearly placed prior to decomposition." It also says that duct tape was over the nose.

Let`s go back to the attorneys right now, Bill Scheaffer, former prosecutor, Florida attorney, WFTV legal analyst with us today. He was in court today. Mickey Sherman, criminal defense attorney, author, "How Can You Defend Those People?" Great title for a book. And Alex Sanchez, defense attorney out of New York.

First of all, to Bill Scheaffer. Reading this autopsy report -- you know, we all wait for the moment in court during the trial when the medical examiner steps up and testifies for the prosecution. What do you think the strongest point for the prosecution is in this autopsy report?

BILL SCHEAFFER, FORMER PROSECUTOR: The strongest point is the fact that they found the body clothed in the pink shirt with the lettering on it that George Anthony said Caylee was wearing when he last saw her, and the person he last saw her with was the mother, Casey. And always, the last person that was seen with the victim certainly is the suspect and usually turns out to be the killer. That, coupled with the forensic evidence that linked articles found at the crime scene to Casey Anthony`s home, establishes a pretty strong chain of circumstance evidence in this case.

CASAREZ: Mickey, there was no cause of death. No cause of death. How far will that go to help the defense?

MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And I disagree a little bit with the last opinion because neither one of those things really makes the ball get closer to the finish line for the state. I think what the most -- strongest evidence was today from the autopsy is the moral outrage and absolute scary, heinous act of the thought of putting duct tape along this child`s mouth. That is just so upsetting to most people. That will put the nail in the coffin more than (INAUDIBLE)

CASAREZ: Mickey, we`ve learned tonight not one layer, but several layers of duct tape.



GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: My wife and I come before you today and ask you to consider our family`s concern for the public release of our granddaughter`s autopsy report. Our family`s memory of our precious Caylee Marie is all we have left of her. This last year has been an emotional strain on our entire family, and including Caylee`s great grandparents.

The protection of our family`s right to privacy and emotional well- being had been tossed aside over and over again.

Although the public has a right to know, we as a family are asking the court to hold off releasing the details of the report until it becomes necessary at the time of our daughter`s trial.

We believe that allowing the medical to be released publicly, the report at this time will allow others to dissect, misinterpret, and sensationalize the information, which would ultimately tarnish Caylee`s memory and cause severe emotional harm to our family.

Our family is still hurting and grieving the loss of Caylee Marie. And if the court will allow the judge, please, give us some peace and show us some dignity by keeping this report sealed.

Thank you, your honor, thank you for giving me this brief moment, and I apologize for my emotion. But this isn`t easy for me still. It`s all for her, sir. This is for her today. Thank you.


CASAREZ: And today, just hours ago, after months of waiting, the autopsy report in this case was finally released. It was made public at the conclusion of that hearing.

I`m Gene Casarez of the Legal Network "In Session" in for Nancy Grace tonight. The cloth letters found inside that cloth laundry bag and the black plastic trash bags form the phrase, big trouble comes small. That was the last thing that Caylee Anthony wore on her shirt before she was murdered.

Let`s go out to a caller. Gloria in Tennessee. Good evening, Gloria. Thanks for calling.

GLORIA: Thank you, Gene. First of all, I want to thank you for taking my phone call and let you know how much I love the show. And it is so informative.

My question is this. As I sit here and have for many weeks and days and watched the information given to us as viewers, I just cannot get myself worked up for the grandparents. Once again, they jumped right into the public`s eye and took all the focus away from their daughter again and made the plea to please don`t release the autopsy report.

And I just, it`s really hard for me to give them the grieving that they`re searching for.

And why do they keep allowing these people to almost make a circus of this case and keep them out of the public`s eye? We don`t want to hear from them. It seems like they`re just really doing their best to protect their daughter. She should have been the one.

CASAREZ: I think your response is fascinating. It is very interesting.

I want to go out to actually an attorney, Alex Sanchez. Alex, it is very unusual today to have a motion not from the defendant, not from the defendant`s attorney, but from the grandparents. In fact, the judge even made a reference about standing to be in that actual court.

If someone is to blame someone, I mean, there was a grieving grandfather there, do we look toward the attorney as to bringing this motion in particular?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Florida law does allow someone who feels they are going to be harmed or in danger to go forth before the court and say listen, please do not release that information. But it really didn`t apply to him.

To tell you the truth, I think the information in that report was beneficial to Casey`s case. So I`m surprised he went in and tried to make the application to prevent that information from coming out.

There was a lot of information. For example, there was no drugs that were found in the system. That`s number one. But number two, there no evidence of any type of physical injury to the bones or any indication that she had suffered from child abuse syndrome. There was no instrumentality of death like a screwdriver or hammer or some ropes.

So there was a lot of information there that could be helpful to the defense in this case.

CASAREZ: But let`s go to Tom Shamshank, former police chief, private investigator and instructor at Boston University.

The forensic examination of that trunk showed that in four separate places, the trunk liner was analyzed and showed chloroform. Very close to that, on the left-hand side of the trunk liner there was a hair, and there was decomposition found at the root, and it was Casey or Caylee`s hair.

How do you rectify the fact that chloroform was found in the car with a decomposing hair, and you don`t find chloroform in the body?

SHAMSHANK: I`m not a scientist. I would speculate that at trial those issues will be our front.

If I could just refocus here on the -- I hear that the prosecution`s case has been torpedoed and there`s bad evidence. What the jurors are going to see are the photographs of that child`s skull with the duct tape.

In earlier guests, and particularly Mickey Sherman, have pointed out the moral repugnancy associated with that particular act.

I think those photographs when they are presented to the jurors, are going to be insurmountable, notwithstanding what the esteemed legal eagles here on the panel have spoken about.

CASAREZ: And believe me, there is going to be a suppression motion. The defense is going to say it`s too prejudicial, that the testimony by the medical examiner is enough.

To Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist, what impact on someone, especially the jury, could these photos have?

GLASS: I think they can have a great impact, because when they see what has happened, it will be devastating for them to look at.

And when you realize that there may have been several pieces of duct tape that were placed over her mouth, it shows that this was an act of rage.

CASAREZ: Rage, very interesting. Let`s go to a viewer in Florida, to Nancy in Florida. What part of Florida are you from, Nancy?

NANCY: I`m actually from Leesburg, which is Lake County right next to Orange County.

CASAREZ: What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is similar to the last caller, and that is, empathizing with George and Cindy, you have to, because it`s heartbreaking. But by the same token, they brought this on themselves by their numerous appearances on every show and every format possible to talk about the case.

And unfortunately, it seems like it`s just their psychological way of not admitting that their daughter brought this on them.

CASAREZ: And Nancy, that was a question that was from the attorney for the "Orlando Sentinel."

But let`s go out to Leonard Pavia. George Georgiana and he was very emotional and court. He wears his heart on his sleeve, seems to be very, very forthright in his emotions. Your thoughts?

PAVIA: George has got a big burden to pack. Right at the top is Cindy, his daughter. And he`s supposed to be the head of the household.

But I`ll tell you, the most intractable situation as some people your people there have said, is the tape, the multiplicity of it, not just one layer, but several pieces of tape, more than probably three or four, and tight enough to where after nine months of weathering, or six months of weathering, whatever it was, it`s still there. With water and animals tearing at it, it`s still there.

So you can imagine. Somebody said the rage that was used to apply it. There was a lot of rage involved in there.

CASAREZ: To Dr. Lillian Glass, I want to talk about that, that someone close to the killer or the killer would take that duct tape and put layer after layer on, several layers, the autopsy report says. What does that mean, psychologically?

GLASS: Psychologically, it means they want to keep that person quiet. They want to do an act, whether it`s to cut off the breathing or whether it is to just to make sure they`ve done their job, the killer has done their job. So they use multiple pieces of tape to make sure that job was done.

CASAREZ: To Dr. Michael Bell, Palm Beach County chief medical examiner, it does state that there is duct tape over the nasal area. What do you see -- cause of death, we don`t know. But you can exclude a lot of things. There was no trauma to the body. But can you exclude so then thus determine in part what could have been the cause of death?

BELL: Well, I think when the attorneys mentioned prior -- you could exclude you know, kind of obvious things, broken bones, fractured skull, being stabbed or shot or what have you. But what you can`t exclude is suffocation, whether by duct tape, whether by pillow, or chloroform.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To welcome to the medical clinic and immediately looked at the TV, which was on Channel 9 broadcasting breaking news. And she collapsed into the chair and started to what appeared to be hyper ventilating.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You could actually see a smile a little bit. That was not sweating, working, doing fliers.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We got a flat tire as we were getting off the expressway. My car`s tire went flat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, guess what? That happened to me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She did ask at that point if she could take a shower to make her feel better. She said the sedative helped settle her stomach. She didn`t feel so secure stomach anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I ate coleslaw today.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You probably eat a lot of things you never used to eat before because when you`re hungry you`ll eat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hated baloney. I have been eating baloney and cheeses on occasion. Grits, I don`t do grits at all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever seen her react that way before?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So that was the first time she`s acted so strongly?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prior to today, and most of my conversations with her, she was weird to talk to. She is very, not cold. I don`t exactly know how to explain it. Non-emotional would probably be the best way to say it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was definitely --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Definitely different today. First time I`d ever seen emotion on her.


CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of the Legal Network "In Session" in for Nancy Grace tonight.

Out to Kathy Belich of CNN. Kathy, we`ve heard for so long about the cloth laundry bag, the black plastic bags. But today in the autopsy report, for the first time, they used the word, they were all intermingled when found in the woods. Explain all that.

BELICH: From what they believe, animals had scattered the remains -- and it`s very upsetting to talk about, but animals would have been biting through the bags and scattering the remains so there would be holes in the bag. And so that how plants grew through the holes in the bags.

So that`s what happened unfortunately in situations like that.

CASAREZ: That`s right. And some of the black plastic bags were actually outside of the cloth bag. It was all intermingled.

We got a picture of one of the cloth laundry bags that was actually taken from the home during a search, a word search of the home. I think we can show that. It was documented that the name of the bag, Whitney, was what was found with the remains inside, and laundry bags at the home had Whitney design.

And, by the way, those you can buy at Target, as was the label from the shirt that was on little Caylee. That also is something that can be purchased at Wal-Mart.

I want to go to Alex Sanchez, because you always have such good points of view as to all of this.

This is a premeditated death penalty case. This autopsy report lacks many things, but includes many things, but it includes many things.

But what do you think that the defense can argue in mitigation during that phase, if there is one.

SANCHEZ: I think what they`re going to argue are some of the points that I brought up before.

But the most important point, I think, is if you examine the bones, looking at the Jacob`s report, it does not indicate that child was ever the victim of some child abuse.

And you could tell, because you can look at the bones, broken bones. You could tell how long they`ve been injured, whether or not they have been healed in the past. There`s none of that there. There doesn`t seem to be any attack on the body which indicates that a stone was put through to the head or to the stomach or something like that.

So I think that somehow convicted of this offense, and that remains to be seen, the defense is going to be able to argue that if it did happened, it was a one-time act. And therefore she should not get the death penalty, she should get a lesser penalty.

CASAREZ: Bill Scheaffer, WFTV legal analyst. From this autopsy, what links the scene to Casey Anthony, not to the home, but Casey Anthony?

SCHEAFFER: Again, the pink shirt that she was last seen wearing. And she was last seen wearing that shirt by George Anthony with Casey Anthony.

You take that with the anthropological reports that put that body being, as they said dumped, in the woods, at or about the time that she was last seen with her mother, that points to Casey as being the killer.

CASAREZ: And it`s Casey Anthony`s car that had the decomposing hair.

To Regina in Ohio. Good evening, Regina.

Kathy, Florida. Hi, Kathy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jean, thanks for taking my call.

My question was about the no drugs being found, but that was kind of answered already. But my question is, was Casey in court today, I sort of missed it? And what was her reaction to her father when he was making the statement to the judge?

CASAREZ: Good question. She was not required to be in court today, and that`s because this was not a motion from her own attorney, but a motion from her parents` attorney.

But to Dr. Michael Bell, I want to talk again about this toxicology. The fact was, in Casey Anthony`s car, there were four different testings of the trunk liner. They all showed there was chloroform in that car. The decomposing hair being either Casey`s or Caylee`s was inches away from it.

How do you reconcile that with no chloroform found in the body?

BELL: Remember, the specimens that we have to work with are predominantly just bone, some hair, and kind of a wafting from the cranial cavity.

And really, these are not optimal specimens for looking for chloroform, which is a volatile substance, meaning that it quickly dissipates into the air.

So you want to have the freshest specimens to be testing. And I can tell you, a skeleton that`s months old is not the best type of specimen to use. That`s why they didn`t detect it.

CASAREZ: Thank you, doctor.

BELL: Or it`s not there.

CASAREZ: Tonight, CNN heroes.


This is CNN heroes.

SARANDON: When I first met Rose, I was just so taken by her heart. She`s the story of the power of forgiveness.

I`m Susan Sarandon, and my hero fights for the survival and resettlement of refugees.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I lived when the genocide is going to be happening in Congo. They took all the men. They were killed. They put us in prison.

When they found out I was pregnant, I said, god accept my life. Forgive me. I forgive those enemies.

I named my twins after the commanders charged to kill us. That day is the day I survived.

SARANDON: She`s dedicated her whole life to saving these refugees that are falling through the cracks with Lapendo.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lapendo is my home. It`s the answer for my prayer.

SARANDON: What Rose has done is shown this great capacity to move on and to forgive and to embrace life.