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Nancy Grace
Kate Says Jon Cleaned Out Joint Bank Account
Aired October 07, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. A million-dollar mansion, a TV deal, personal stylists, a fleet of luxury cars, beautiful people, eight beautiful children -- they had it all! But tonight, allegations of Daddy siphoning the last drop of the family`s money to support all his girlfriends and his lavish lifestyle, siphoning to the tune of a quarter million dollars, allegations of illegal wiretapping, phone taps, bank account and computer surveillance by Daddy, a known computer specialist, charges of drug use, X-rated sleepovers with a bartender Daddy allegedly hired to babysit in the home with the children asleep upstairs. And that`s the tip of the iceberg. Didn`t we all know it would end in court? "Jon & Kate Plus 8" -- is Daddy headed to the big house?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: For years, Jon, you had your children on TV on a reality show. But suddenly when it`s no longer "Jon & Kate Plus 8," it`s "Kate Plus 8," you suddenly have a problem with it and you want it to all come to an end, and I don`t believe that.
JON GOSSELIN, "JON & KATE PLUS 8": Regardless of the timing, I`m their father and I will do what`s best for my children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The timing is irrelevant!
GRACE: Oh, you got your lawyer here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The timing...
GRACE: You`re afraid to answer questions? Whatever. What`s important is the children and not these two self-absorbed husband and wife who argue constantly in front of their children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly. That`s why they`re coming off (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s why the show is coming to a stop.
GRACE: Why don`t you just quit arguing and work on your marriage?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly.
GRACE: Wouldn`t that be a better idea?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly.
GRACE: And go back to your happy family?
JON GOSSELIN: If I could get Kate to mediate and talk, we could do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve been to therapy together once and have not been back. But you want to go back with Kate, right?
JON GOSSELIN: Yes. I would love to go to mediation. I would love to be Mom and Dad. We`re not going to be husband and wife.
GRACE: Hey, you talk the talk, but you don`t walk the walk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s right. Actions speak louder than words.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actions speak louder than words.
GRACE: ... with one 22-year-old after the next while she`s at home with the children, and say you want to work it out. That`s not working it out, Jon Gosselin!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In light of all the allegations and everything that`s gone on in the past week alone, should the kids be in therapy?
GRACE: I don`t know so much that they need to go to therapy as Jon and Kate need to go into therapy and learn to quit arguing and set a good example for the children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you feel? Do you feel like your kids need therapy? Are you seeing any problems?
JON GOSSELIN: Well, I`m not a professional, but the hardest thing I ever did was tell them that we were getting a divorce.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m saying get the babies therapy because you never know! The effects of this could be far-reaching. And you know...
JON GOSSELIN: You don`t know until you`re an adult, and sometimes that`s too late.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly.
JON GOSSELIN: And that`s what happened to me. I`m learning -- I mean, my father, his father -- I`m learning to break the pattern. I mean...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, live to Chicago. A beautiful 16-year-old Chicago girl literally vanishes off the street. Tonight, where is 16-year-old Jennifer Jones?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A frantic search is right now under way for a beautiful missing Chicago teen. Sixteen-year-old Jennifer Jones was last seen leaving her home at 6:00 AM. She was supposed to go to school, but she never showed up. The family says the girl suffers from bipolar disorder, and they are begging for the public`s help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. A quarter million dollars gone, allegations of illegal wiretapping, hacking into bank accounts, hacking into cell phones, claims of X-rated sleepovers with eight children asleep upstairs? "Jon & Kate Plus 8" -- it had to end in court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON GOSSELIN: We`re in the middle of a divorce. Why should we televise it? It`s not helping.
GRACE: You`re in the middle of a divorce because of you. And frankly...
JON GOSSELIN: Wrong. Wrong.
GRACE: ... I have never seen...
JON GOSSELIN: Wrong. Kate approached me...
GRACE: ... two more self-absorbed...
JON GOSSELIN: And sorry to talk over you...
GRACE: in my life!
JON GOSSELIN: Sorry to talk over you...
GRACE: You`ve got eight children...
JON GOSSELIN: Sorry to...
GRACE: ... hanging in the balance while you and Kate...
JON GOSSELIN: Sorry...
GRACE: It`s just...
JON GOSSELIN: Sorry to talk over you. But in October, she said...
GRACE: No, you`re not! You put your children on television for years, but now suddenly, you stick a sign on the house that says you can`t film here anymore? Is it because it used to be "Jon & Kate Plus 8" but now it`s "Kate Plus 8" and you`re not make any more money?
JON GOSSELIN: Absolutely not. I will always make money, and I`m not doing it for the money.
KATE GOSSELIN, "JON & KATE PLUS 8": He took $230,000 of the $231,000 that we have liquid, and I have a stack of bills in my purse I can`t drop in the mail.
JON GOSSELIN: She`s making claims that she can`t back up. If she said I took $230,000, where`s the bank statement to prove it?
GRACE: You can`t have it both ways. You can`t make all this money putting your kids on TV, and then now when she`s making the money, say, Uh- uh, uh-uh. It doesn`t work like that.
JON GOSSELIN: It`s not about the money. It`s about getting my kids off of TV.
KATE GOSSELIN: The kids have -- over the weekend, I told them that we`re not filming at this point. And actually, times eight there was wailing and sobbing. They love our crew. They love the interaction. They love the events. And there is nothing harmful about it.
JON GOSSELIN: I`m not the bad guy here. I`m the one trying to protect my children. That`s called being a parent. I`m protecting my children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Not according to the legal documents I have here in my hands. We are taking your calls. It all seemed too good to be true, the reality show "Jon & Kate Plus 8." And in reality, it`s not -- it`s not -- as good as it seems, not even close to it. Now allegations of drug use, allegations of X-rated sleepovers in the home with the children upstairs, claims that Jon Gosselin has hacked into his wife`s checking account, her cell phone, her computer. Remember, he was, before he quit work, an information technologist for the state of Pennsylvania, a computer whiz.
Straight out to Chris Jacobs, correspondent with "The Insider." But now there are claims that he has siphoned nearly a quarter million dollars off the family account?
CHRIS JACOBS, CORRESPONDENT, "THE INSIDER": You know, Nancy, that is the story right now. The truth has yet to come out, however. There`s three sides to this story, as in most situations. There`s Kate`s side. She says that Jon took $230,000 out of a joint account. Jon claims he only took $22,000 out. He`s only been able to produce one withdrawal slip showing that transaction. Because of his inability to access the Internet, we have not yet seen the bank statements. So we don`t yet know what the truth is.
GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Chris Jacobs, "Insider," did you just say his inability to access his account? Did you say that?
JACOBS: Well, what he told us here -- yes, he did, Nancy. He told us here at "The Insider" that he does not have the access to the on-line account that Kate was supposed to give him. He was going to wait until he got home to New York. He arrived today. We still have not had any statements sent to us here at "The Insider."
GRACE: So he arrived today, but still no clarification? I thought at an earlier stage, Jane Velez-Mitchell -- joining us is HLN`s host of "Issues" and author of "I Want." Jane, didn`t he admit earlier to taking about $100,000?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, "ISSUES": Well, you know, this is a he said/she said and it`s extraordinarily complicated.
GRACE: No!
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Essentially...
GRACE: No. No! It is not a he said/she said because those -- even I, who am computer illiterate, can go on and check my account, OK? Even I can do that. So don`t tell me that an IT specialist, an information tech who worked on computers for the state of Pennsylvania, who has allegedly made claims that he has hacked into his wife`s checking account, her cell phone, her text messages, her e-mails, and he can`t tell us his last withdrawal?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, look, she`s saying he took $230,000 from the account. His point of view is that she has more than a dozen checking accounts. This is what he`s claimed. And at one point, he was heard screaming, Where`s the $2 million? So first of all, I`m wondering why the heck do they have a joint checking account, Nancy, when they`re in the process of getting divorced? How crazy is that?
GRACE: I want to go to Clark Goldband, our producer on the story. Clark, what can you tell me about the latest claims that are hitting the newsstands tomorrow in the "Enquirer" that he allegedly has hacked into his wife`s -- all of her accounts and actually bragged about it to the bartender turned baby-sitter?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Explosive claims, Nancy, from Stephanie Santoro (ph), the cocktail waitress that Jon was friendly with. Some reports say he had relations with her. According to these claims by Santoro, he, in fact, hacked into Kate`s cell phones, Kate`s transactions, including her credit card and computer, and even knew that Kate was allegedly having an affair.
Of course, these are unfounded claims, but this is what Jon told Stephanie Santoro, Santoro the cocktail waitress also saying Jon one night just casually mentioned inside (ph), according to this report, that, This stuff`s not good, my good stuff`s in New York. She said, Jon, what do you mean? She realized he was referring to marijuana, Nancy.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. We are taking your calls with us. With us, Jennifer Smetters, family attorney from Chicago, Renee Rockwell, defense attorney, Atlanta jurisdiction, and Bradford Cohen, defense attorney, Miami.
Renee, what`s he looking at, if it can be proved by police -- and they can do it, if it happened -- that he has been hacking into his wife`s checking account, her cell phone, her text messages, her e-mails? What`s he looking at?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I can tell you about Georgia, Nancy. That is a criminal offense. You cannot check your husband`s voice- mail. You cannot check his text messaging, nothing like that. But what he`s also looking at, Nancy, is a contempt charge. Because of the arbitration, he had to get consent before he took anything out of that joint checking account.
GRACE: Now, hold on. Would it make any difference, Bradford Cohen, if you are hacking into your wife`s account? They`re not divorced yet.
BRADFORD COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, here`s the thing. There`s two things that may make a difference. The first is, you don`t know who pays the phone bills. You don`t know if this is a family plan. I don`t know if the phone is actually in his name, so he was actually just hacking her phone itself...
GRACE: It`s in her name. It`s in her name. It`s in her name.
COHEN: If it`s in her name, I don`t think it makes a difference whatsoever that it`s his wife, in terms of that he`s hacking into her phone system or hacking into the computer. Now, if it`s a shared computer, again, that`s another issue. If it`s a shared computer...
GRACE: They are not living...
COHEN: ... and it`s a family computer...
GRACE: ... in the same home. Hey, hey, hey, hey! Have you been living in a...
COHEN: But we don`t know when he actually...
GRACE: Put Cohen up.
COHEN: When do they say he actually hacked into it?
GRACE: Have you been living in a cave? He`s living in his bachelor pad in New York...
COHEN: Currently. Currently.
GRACE: And she`s living...
COHEN: You`re correct.
GRACE: ... in this home...
COHEN: But I`m talking about when it originally happened, when he originally hacked into it.
GRACE: As I was saying...
COHEN: He`s saying that he...
GRACE: ... he`s telling -- allegedly telling his girlfriend. Last time I looked, two plus two`s still four. He got the girlfriend after they split, so he`s not in the home anymore, all right? Does that help?
COHEN: No, it doesn`t help because we still don`t know when he actually did it. He may have been talking about something he did in the past.
GRACE: OK. Got it. Got it. Jennifer Smetters, weigh in.
JENNIFER SMETTERS, FAMILY ATTORNEY: I think what he`s doing is wrong, and I think it will come to bite him, in the end. What he is trying to do is manipulate the situation. People going through a divorce normally show the ugliest part of them, and what he is doing is showing a pattern and practice of using and manipulating information to his best interest.
GRACE: On the other hand, we`ve got to consider the source. Right now, this is only one person`s word. Was it pillow talk by bartender turned babysitter Stephanie Santoro?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON GOSSELIN: Kate and I are -- Kate and I come together for our kids. We`ve always been there for them. We know what`s best for them. Please, people, stop interfering in our lives. We know what`s best.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON GOSSELIN: Where`s the million dollars from the book? Where`s the $1.25 million from the show? I know how much we paid for the house. I know how much the mortgage is. I know all that stuff. Where`s the rest of the money, Kate? What`d you do with it? I mean, I only took -- I took less than 10 percent, less than 10 percent since March until now, less than 10 percent. Where is the $2 million -- $2 million!
KATE GOSSELIN (via telephone): I sat all day while my kids were in school, paying bills, as I normally do. And when I made the phone call to my lady at the bank that handles my accounts to transfer the money, she called me back about 45 minutes later and told me she could not do the transfers because our bank account that had had $231,000 in it now had $1,346 in it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You just heard Kate Gosselin calling in to ABC`s "The View." We are taking your calls live. To Stephanie in Indiana. Hi, Stephanie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call.
GRACE: Thank you for calling in, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As a mother, one of my views of Jon Gosselin -- he says he has his children`s best interests at heart, but the damage he`s doing to his sons by showing them all these women that he`s with -- he`s teaching them that women are trash and he`s teaching them -- his daughters it`s OK for the men to treat them like trash.
GRACE: To Dr. Jeff Gardere, psychologist, author of "Love Prescription" and many, many other books. Dr. Jeff, what about it?
JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST: Your caller`s absolutely right. And what we see in these sorts of divorces, people become so angry, we see the worst behaviors come out. And they don`t think about the kids. They act out to the point of if the kids are around, they become collateral damage.
GRACE: You`re seeing shots of Jon Gosselin partying all over the country with one of his girlfriends, Hailey Glassman. What do we know about her, Chris Jacobs? Chris joining us from "The Insider."
JACOBS: Well, we don`t know very much more than she`s 22 years old and she`s the girlfriend of Jon Gosselin, who he jumped into a relationship with soon after becoming separated from Kate.
GRACE: What`s her age? Oh, hold on! Hold on. Chris, I don`t know if you missed this one, but here`s her mug shot. That`s a little detail you might have missed...
JACOBS: We unfortunately have only seen the worst of Hailey. But Jon claimed to me in an interview I did exclusively for "The Insider" yesterday that he is in love with Hailey and he does plan on staying with her for the rest of his life.
GRACE: Chris, Chris, Chris, Chris...
JACOBS: Make of that what you want.
GRACE: He said that about Kate, too. But you know, I don`t care about that. What I care about is what`s happening in court, the custody battle that is brewing and allegations of siphoning a quarter million dollars, plus hacking into bank accounts, text messages, cell phones. Those are crimes. And if they`re true...
JACOBS: Yes.
GRACE: ... he`s headed to jail, all right? If they`re true.
JACOBS: This situation has more twists and turns than the hedge maze at the end of the movie "The Shining." We just don`t know where the out is. What we do know is that Jon made one withdrawal for $22,000. Whether there were others, we do not know. And it kind of surprises me that there hasn`t been a financial forensic investigation yet, that we don`t have these bank statements, which purportedly would show what the truth is. Those have not been produced by either side.
GRACE: Well, do we know that? It may not be time to produce them. Very quickly, to Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. I want to talk about custody, Marc Klaas. And we have seen, you and I both, in situations like this, it escalate, escalate rapidly.
We know that the girlfriend, Hailey Glassman, has this arrest record. We know that there are allegations of him having X-rated sleepovers in the home with the bartender turned babysitter while the children are there, now these allegations of siphoning a quarter million dollars. How could that or would that affect custody?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I`m certainly no family lawyer or lawyer of any kind, but what I can tell you, Nancy, is that the abysmal behavior on the part of both of these parents, and particularly Jon, is re-victimizing these children on a regular basis. They`re subject to peer pressure. They`re subject to finding out about this stuff, as it`s been documented in memoriam. And at some point, they`re going to realize that their father is out there blithering on about millions of dollars, the mother`s saying that he`s stealing the money, and the whole world`s watching this thing absolutely aghast. I feel terribly for these little kids because...
GRACE: I do, too, because --
KLAAS: ... certainly, they are caught in the cross-hairs...
GRACE: Marc, we`re coming down...
KLAAS: ... of some very bad behavior.
GRACE: ... on Jon Gosselin. But prior to this, I`ve never seen two more self-absorbed people in my life. In every shot, the children are just looking up to them, clamoring for attention, and they`re not getting it.
To Candy in Illinois. Hi, Candy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call.
GRACE: Thank you for calling. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I have a question about if Jon`s putting a halt to this show and that means no income, does he now have to come up with money of his own for, like, alimony, child support...
GRACE: You mean, like -- Candy...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Candy, are you suggesting that he work?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, he`s going to have to.
GRACE: What about it, Jane Velez-Mitchell?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, according to this report, one of the women says he`s planning to ask for alimony. So it would appear that he might want to be supported by Kate, if she has the money, if she`s able to continue the show. But then again, he`s trying to stop the show. So if he stops the show entirely, he could run out of his source of income.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON GOSSELIN: It`s not about the money. It`s about getting my kids off of TV. I feel that my kids...
GRACE: Why was it OK when you did it?
JON GOSSELIN: Because I wasn`t -- I wasn`t -- I feel now empowered.
GRACE: You`re broke?
JON GOSSELIN: No, I`m not broke. I`m not broke at all.
GRACE: I can see that. You`ve got on two diamond earrings. You`re obviously not broke.
JON GOSSELIN: Actually, they`re CZs, but I`m not going (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Don`t care.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON GOSSELIN: Do you want it to stop, or do you want it to continue? Do you want everything to be drudged up and embarrassing for your kids and embarrassing for you? Please, Kate, just let`s get off of television and go mediate. What`s the big deal? What`s there to hide?
KATE GOSSELIN: My true nature is to freak out about everything. Everything`s a big drama. Everything`s, you know, the end of the world.
JON GOSSELIN: Kate, come on. Stop. It`s ridiculous.
KATE GOSSELIN: I persevere. I will not lay down and die.
GRACE: What`s important is the children and not these two self- absorbed husband and wife who argue constantly in front of their children.
Do the right thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Is Daddy headed to the pokey? That`ll be a whole new reality series. Straight out to the lines. Chantel, Pennsylvania. Hi, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just wanted to say that I live by Jon and Kate`s house in Warnersville (ph), and I drove past it on Sunday. The kids were outside playing. There was one paparazzi out. He said that Kate was not outside, she was at an interview for the "Today" show for Monday morning, and Jon was in California. Who`s taking care of these kids? That`s my (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Excellent question. To Chris Jacobs with "The Insider." What about it? Who is taking care of them?
JACOBS: Well, while Jon was here in Los Angeles and Kate was in New York, the duties of taking care of the children fell to one of Kate`s friends, who ironically, looked a lot like Kate. And you might have seen those paparazzi snapshots of her grabbing one of the children, scolding them. And that caused a big stir not only here on our set at "The Insider," but also out there in the pop culture world.
GRACE: I did see that. To Dr. Laura Jana, pediatrician, author of "Heading Home With Your Newborn." Doctor, thank you for being with us. Doctor, what is this going to do to the children?
DR. LAURA JANA, PEDIATRICIAN (via telephone): You know, Nancy, unfortunately, I can`t think of anything good to say to that. Divorce is never easy in the first place, but these children are being exposed to sort of the worst case of divorce. And when you`re talking about even just the physical symptoms that come with the stress of it, we`re talking stomachaches, headaches, sleep problems, eating problems, all those sorts of things, not to mention the long-term experience of living what`s really becoming a traumatic experience for them.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON GOSSELIN: They love the camera crew. They love all those guys. They make nicknames for them. You know, the PAs, the production assistants there. They play with the kids. We all get along and play together.
And it`s like a family environment. That`s how we worked together. It`s comfortable for the kids. That way there`s no animosity. I mean, that`s the way it is.
GRACE: You put your children on television for years, but now suddenly you stick a sign on the house that says you can`t film here anymore? Is it because it used to be "Jon & Kate Plus Eight" but now it`s "Kate Plus Eight" and you`re not making any more money?
J. GOSSELIN: Absolutely not. I will always make money, and I`m not doing it for the money. I`m doing it to restore family values. I`m doing it.
GRACE: Say what?
J. GOSSELIN: I`m doing it to restore family values. I want to.
GRACE: Do you think by dating Hailey Glassman when your divorce is not settled that you`re restoring family values? And look, hey, I`m not all about family values. I`m just saying that you can`t have it both ways. You can`t make all this money putting your kids on TV and then now when she`s making the money say uh-uh, uh-uh.
KATE GOSSELIN: I know that personally, for myself and the kids, this has been a good experience. It continues to be a good experience.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will you demand that that money be re-deposited in the account?
K. GOSSELIN: I have to in order to keep my kids where they live and to put food on their table. I need that money to provide for them. You have to understand my position here. We were in a position after our sextuplets were born that we could not pay our bills. We did the show to provide a better life for them. Never did I think I would be back in the same position, worried about providing for them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That was Kate Gosselin on NBC`s "Today Show."
Restore family values? What`s he going to do with all that money, Chris Jacobs? Go buy another Ed Hardy t-shirt? How much do those things run? Couple of hundred bucks for a t-shirt?
CHRIS JACOBS, CORRESPONDENT, THE INSIDER, COVERING STORY: God, I hope not. Whatever it is, they`re charging too much, Nancy. And again, I mean, we have to put the word alleged in front of everything that has to do with this situation. The truth is that third side of this story. And you know the longer it goes on.
GRACE: Why do you keep saying there`s a third side of the story? Well, what do you mean by that?
JACOBS: Well, because I say there`s Jon.
GRACE: There`s his side and her side. What`s the third side?
JACOBS: The truth is the third side, Nancy.
GRACE: Well put.
JACOBS: The truth is the third side.
GRACE: Well put, Chris Jacobs. Back to you, Clark Goldband. We were supposed to be in court today. What was to be heard? Unfortunately, the judge`s wife, extremely ill with cancer. What about it? What was set on the menu for today?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: That`s right, Nancy. All eyes on a Montgomery County, Pennsylvania courtroom, where these charges Kate Gosselin has brought forward, saying Jon took $230,000. She wants that money repaid within 24 hours.
Also, what she wants is 60 days of receipts for every dime Jon Gosselin has spent. She also wants Jon Gosselin to turn in his Mercedes and BMW in.
GRACE: Whoa, wait, wait, wait. He`s got a Mercedes and a BMW?
GOLDBAND: Yes.
GRACE: OK. Go ahead.
GOLDBAND: She wants him to turn in the BMW and Mercedes in lieu of this money. If some of the money has already been spent, and it very well may now that this hearing has been tabled until next week, Kate Gosselin.
GRACE: You know, you`re right. $200,000 will go pretty fast with that kind of spending if he`s got a whole week without any court controls.
To John Lucich, former criminal investigator and president of High Tech Crime Network. He says -- he actually told "The Insider" that he could not get access to his bank account. OK?
My mother, who is in her 70s, knows how to access her bank account on the computer. I know how to do it. And he, the IT expert, the computer wiz, cannot get access to his bank account? BS. Now, telling me that makes me suspicious.
JOHN LUCICH, FORMER CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR, PRESIDENT, HIGH TECH CRIME NETWORK: Oh, there`s no doubt about it. In fact, what may have occurred - - and again, there`s a lot we don`t know about -- maybe she changed the password and he couldn`t get in, which led him to hack into that.
Now if he`s an account holder on that and he has authorization to get into that account and use that account, then it`s not actually hacking. And as far as all the other allegations against this guy, where they`re saying that he may have violated wiretap laws, all the things they talked about are stored communications.
Those communications are not in transit. E-mail, voicemail messages, all stored communications and none of those actually violate the wiretap. There may be some issues if he violated the security on those accounts where he didn`t have access to, and that is hacking at the federal level and state levels and punishable.
GRACE: You know, John Lucich, I`m not exactly sure what you just said, but after practicing law since 1984, and yes, I will date myself, I know that it is a crime -- I don`t need to go look it up in the code annotated. It is a violation of the law to hack into somebody else`s e- mail account, to hack into their cell phone account, who they`ve been calling, who they`ve been texting, uh-uh.
LUCICH: If that`s what he did. You can get access to that e-mail.
GRACE: If.
LUCICH: . without going into that account.
GRACE: If.
LUCICH: It`s all on that hard drive, and if someone imaged that hard drive and if he`s a technologist and knew how to get access to those files, he could easily recover that without access.
GRACE: Can you break it down, Lucich? Can you break it down? You don`t need to throw around all the fancy computer talk with me. Are you trying to say that if he`s sitting at the home computer and he`s got access to it there and he doesn`t have to hack in, it`s not a violation, but if he is remote and he is using somebody`s pass codes or otherwise getting in surreptitiously that that is a violation of the law?
LUCICH: Absolutely. It`s a violation of the law.
GRACE: OK. Got it.
Out to the lines, Chantel, Pennsylvania. Hi, dear. Uh-oh. Marilyn, Missouri. Go ahead, Marilyn.
MARILYN, CALLER FROM MISSOURI: yes. Everybody`s talking about it`s Jon and Kate`s money. It seems to me like it`s the kids` money. Why ain`t they putting it in an account and have a guardian take care of it?
GRACE: Marilyn, truer words were never spoken. If she`s telling the truth, to you, Jennifer Smetters, Renee Rockwell, Bradford Cohen, she said that they started this whole venture of the reality TV show to better their children, to let them all go to college, for Pete`s sake, they`ve got eight of them.
Renee Rockwell, why isn`t there a guardian taking care of the children`s finances?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There will be now, Nancy. And what a recipe for disaster.
GRACE: Well, that`s a day late and a dollar short.
ROCKWELL: I know that. But what a recipe for disaster when you have $230,000 and people that are in a joint account and people that are at each other`s throat. I think that they were bound. Somebody was bound to grab that money.
GRACE: You know what? We don`t know all the facts yet, Cohen, but you tell me, Ed Hardy t-shirts, Mercedes, BMW, sprees to Las Vegas, a bachelor pad in New York. Uh-uh. That is not fitting together with a guy who wants to restore family values.
And all you people that think, oh, Kate was a witch, she was evil, she was mean. That`s not what this is about. This is not Miss Congeniality or Mr. Personality contest. This is about an alleged crime.
BRADFORD COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And no one is saying that. Oh, yes. I mean, listen, everyone agrees that I don`t think anyone is an angel in this. Certainly he looks worse than she does at this point. But who knows what`s going to come out?
The behavior that he`s, you know, doing at this point obviously is not the behavior he wants his kids to see.
GRACE: I`m asking about a guardian.
COHEN: In terms of a guardian?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Oh, and everybody, you`re seeing pictures of Jon and Kate`s.
COHEN: I believe that there`s.
GRACE: . children!
COHEN: . probably trusts that were set up for these kids.
GRACE: . from TLCDiscovery.com. Repeat, Bradford.
COHEN: I believe there`s probably trusts that were set up for these kids. I don`t think that $230,000, from what I`ve read, was attributable to the kids` income. I believe that the kids have separate accounts, is what Kate said originally, that they had separate accounts.
Now I don`t know for sure because we don`t know -- we haven`t verified that fact.
GRACE: Got it.
COHEN: But usually in situations like this there are separate trusts set up for minors.
GRACE: To Smetters, Jennifer Smetters, why has the court not set up a guardian for the children`s finances so exactly this type of thing couldn`t happen?
JENNIFER SMETTERS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know what? Sometimes the courts actually expect that the litigants are going to have some integrity and follow the court orders. That didn`t happen here. They`re going to see a guardian appointed now.
And also probably a guardian for the children to see what their best interests -- to make sure their best interests are being met.
GRACE: To Stephanie in Louisiana, hi, Stephanie.
STEPHANIE, CALLER FROM LOUISIANA: Hi, Nancy. I love your show, by the way.
GRACE: Thank you.
STEPHANIE: But I was just wondering why everyone`s coming down so hard on Jon and nobody`s saying anything about Kate.
GRACE: OK. Stephanie, what do you have to say?
STEPHANIE: Well, I mean, talking about how he has these cars and -- but if you look at her, she`s got two vans. She lives in a $1.2 million house. And everything she gets is free. Nobody`s saying.
GRACE: But remember. Remember, Stephanie, that`s the home where the children live.
STEPHANIE: Correct.
GRACE: When it`s her visitation, she`s there. When it`s his visitation.
STEPHANIE: But (INAUDIBLE) she leaves. She goes on vacation.
GRACE: As I was saying, when it`s his visitation, he lives in the home. It`s kind of a little bit of a wacky situation.
STEPHANIE: It is. But she`s always taking vacations, and she`s got all these nannies for these kids. She`s not even with them.
GRACE: Everybody, we are taking your calls live. But quickly to tonight`s safety tips.
ATMs on every corner. And so are crooks. Common sense goes a long way. Never use ATMs in the backs or sides of buildings. Find one in a very busy common area. Prepare your deposit slips and envelopes ahead of time.
With those drive-up ATMs, keep the car running and the door locked. Never, never, never write down your PIN number on your card. I know it sounds obvious, but thieves steal thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars every year that way.
And don`t flash the cash when you remove it from the ATM. Don`t count it there in public where it can be snatched. It`s an invitation to be robbed. Wait until you`re in a secure place. For more information on how to stay safe go to homesafecouncil.org.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A frantic search is right now under way for a beautiful missing Chicago teen. 16-year-old Jennifer Jones was last seen leaving her home at 6:00 a.m. She was supposed to go to school, but she never showed up.
The family says the girl suffers from bipolar disorder, and they are begging for the public`s help. Jennifer is African-American. She stands 5`6" and weighs about 145 pounds. Cops say she was last seen wearing a blue multicolor vest, a blue jacket, blue jeans, and white gym shoes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Chicago and Kathy Chaney with the "Chicago Defender." Kathy, you alerted us to Jennifer Jones, age 16. What can you tell me about the little girl missing?
KATHY CHANEY, REPORTER, CHICAGO DEFENDER (via phone): Well, I can tell you that police have no leads in her disappearance and they desperately are looking for the public`s help. She was last seen wearing the blue multicolor vest. She also was seen carrying a pink book bag as well.
GRACE: A pink book bag.
CHANEY: Yes.
GRACE: Kathy, what can you tell me about the girl? I know that she`s just 16 years old. That puts her to be, what, either a sophomore, junior, or senior in high school? Which one?
CHANEY: Most likely a sophomore or a junior. In high school, yes.
GRACE: And what else do we know about her? I know that she has bipolar syndrome. And that could be a problem for her. She could be extremely disoriented somewhere right now if she`s in the middle of an episode.
CHANEY: Exactly. And it hasn`t been determined if she is on medication or if she has the medication with her. The family is just desperately looking for some help to find Jennifer.
GRACE: 16 years old. Can you imagine your 16-year-old little girl gone? Straight off one of the streets of Chicago?
To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer on the story. Tell me what you know about the circumstances surrounding Jennifer`s disappearance, Ellie.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Right, Nancy. Well, Jennifer left her home early in the morning. She was supposed to be headed to school. She apparently never showed up there. She was last seen at the corner of 76th Street and Racine Avenue there on the south side of Chicago. No one has seen her since. Her mother reported her missing. And there have been no leads or sightings since then.
GRACE: So she was on her way to school?
JOSTAD: We believe so, yes.
GRACE: And where exactly is that in the city, Kathy Chaney? Racine and what? 72?
CHANEY: 76th and Racine is near the Auburn Grusham area. It`s also near the Inglewood area, which is.
GRACE: What does that mean?
CHANEY: It`s kind of bad. It`s a low-income neighborhood. It has its crime woes.
GRACE: Now, just because it`s low-income doesn`t mean it`s bad. All right? But you say the crime rate.
CHANEY: Well, I`m very familiar with the area.
GRACE: So you say the crime rate is bad?
CHANEY: Around that area, yes. I`m very familiar with that area. So around there, yes. But that actually pretty much has nothing to do with her disappearance. Not to say that she`s run into some type of foul play. But the neighborhood, from my experience, is not that desirable.
GRACE: Well, you know, Kathy, I think that it does have a lot to do with it because a kid in a high-crime area is a lot more likely to meet up with crime than a kid in a low-crime area. You make a very valid point.
Everybody, this is the first I`ve heard about this little girl missing. Her name, Jennifer Jones. We think she`s a sophomore in high school. She`s 16 years old. And she was on her way to school that morning. Chicago, Illinois. Right on a public street. A beautiful young girl, 5`6", about 145 pounds. Last known to be wearing blue multicolored vest, jeans, and white sneakers with a pink book bag. On her way to school.
How many of you send your kids out the door every day on the way to school? I`m starting to think I`m going to have to take John David and Lucy in an armored tank to get them to school in the morning.
To Marc Klaas, president and founder KlaasKids Foundation. This is your expertise, Marc. What can you tell us?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I can tell you that kids being victimized on the way to school or from school or at school buses is much more common than society allows for. And I think that you don`t have to take your kids in an armored vehicle but you have to be aware of this and you have to take the obvious precautions.
What the authorities are going to want to do is check with her friends, check with the registered sex offenders in the neighborhood, check her cell phone, see if it might be pinging, see if she had taken her medication, if she has any of her medications with her, and certainly check her computer files. And then I think they`ll take it from there.
GRACE: You know, you were talking about disappearing on the way to and from school, Marc Klaas. How common is that?
KLAAS: Yes. Well, I don`t think anybody`s ever done statistics on it, but let me give you a couple of names. Eton Pats, Amber Harris, Ben Omby, Liana Fairchild, Mitzi Sanchez. All little children who were minding their own business going to school or on the school bus.
The predators know this. Children are very vulnerable in these situations. And obviously, Nancy, there are common solutions to that. We can do either high-tech or low-tech solutions as far as the school bus stops go. We can put up surveillance cameras, or it can be a neighborhood project to make sure that there is an adult there every time a child gets onto or gets off of the school bus.
The same thing can be done for routing. Children shouldn`t be walking to school by themselves. Parents should show their children the safest routes to and from school and ensure that they are with at least one other person every time they do that.
GRACE: I want to go to Dr. Laura Jana, pediatrician, author of "Heading Home with Your Newborn: from Birth to Reality."
Dr. Jana, bipolar. What does that mean? How could that affect her situation right now?
DR. LAURA JANA, M.D., PEDIATRICIAN: Well, you know, Nancy, this is where reality really sets in. In listening to this conversation, bipolar disorder certainly can play a major role. You know, whether she went off her meds before she went missing and that was a factor in her disappearance or she was taken without her meds.
We know that people who have bipolar disorder, which is a mood disorder, you can have swings of mania, poor judgment, risky behavior. And on the other end of that spectrum very depressive episodes. People who have bipolar disorder need their medications.
In her situation I`m concerned either way. If she went off of them there would be reason why she might have poor judgment when she went off in the first place. And if she were abducted or something happened against her will where she doesn`t have them, I have equal concerns.
GRACE: What about it, Dr. Jeff Gardere, psychologist and author?
JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "LOVE PRESCRIPTION": Yes. Absolutely. I`m concerned that she may have been in an episode, as you talk about, where she`s in a manic phase and phase and may be psychotic. We see that in the manic phase. And if she`s depressed, she might be so depressed she`s suicidal.
GRACE: Take a look. Jennifer Jones, age 16. We believe she`s a sophomore in high school. I`ve just learned about the case today. She`s been missing for about a week. She has vanished off the public streets of Chicago, around 76th and Racine.
She`s a beautiful young girl. She`s about 5`6", 145 pounds, medium complexion wearing blue multi-colored vest, jeans, white sneakers. She suffers from bipolar disorder. She had a pink bookbag on her way to school.
Tonight, we ask for your thoughts and your prayers for our friend, veteran felony prosecutor, Eleanor Odom. After her regular workout, she thought she had heartburn, which was unusual. She went to the doctor. They did not let her go home. She has just come through emergency open heart surgery in the last hours.
Please, pray for her. And Eleanor, stay strong.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Jennifer is African-American, she stands 5`6" and weighs about 145 pounds. Cops say she was last seen wearing a blue multi-color vest, a blue jacket, blue jeans, and white gym shoes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to the calls. Elizabeth, Connecticut, hi, Elizabeth.
ELIZABETH, CALLER FROM CONNECTICUT: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear, what`s your question?
ELIZABETH: well, first of all, I love you very much and I watch you every night.
GRACE: Elizabeth, thank you. Thank you so much. I can`t believe this case is a week old. I`m just finding out about it. What`s your question, dear?
ELIZABETH: I want to know, does she have any computer contacts on the Internet that she`s friends with?
GRACE: What about it, Kathy Chaney, what do we know? Have police looked at her computer, either at home or at school?
CHANEY: They have not said that they`ve looked at it. They just say it`s an ongoing investigation, they`re keeping the details close to the vest, and they won`t give out too much at this time. But they said they don`t have any leads.
GRACE: OK. Robin in Illinois, hi, Robin.
ROBIN, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Nancy, I want to say I love you, love the twins.
GRACE: Thank you.
ROBIN: And I hope your mom`s doing better and I keep her in my prayers.
GRACE: Well, she`s still in the hospital, but I believe she`s better. Thank you. What`s your question, dear?
ROBIN: Two things. I live in Chicago. This is the first time I`ve heard about this young lady missing. And number two, the Inglewood area has a very, very high registered offenders in that area, hundreds of them, within blocks.
GRACE: Oh, oh! Registered sex offenders. Ellie Jostad, what can you tell me?
JOSTAD: Nancy, they have issued a community alert for Jennifer Jones, but police have released very little information, as Kathy Chaney mentioned. We don`t know if she had a cell phone with her. We don`t know if she did have one, if it`s been used. We don`t know if any bank cards were used. We`re looking for information on this girl. And we`re hoping they`d find her soon.
GRACE: Tip line, 312-747-8274. We will stay on the story.
Let`s stop and remember Army Staff Sergeant Carletta Davis, 34, Anchorage, Alaska, killed, Iraq. On a third tour, awarded several medals, the Purple Heart, Bronze Star. A combat medic, she hoped to become a physician`s assistant and open a nursing home. Leaves behind mother, Carletta, husband Thomas and three sons, Trayton, Theodore and Tyrese.
Carletta Davis, American hero.
Thanks to our guests and especially to you. And happy birthday to my Cajun friend of the show, Mary!
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp, Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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