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Nancy Grace
Person of Interest in Chasen Murder Commits Suicide in Front of Cops
Aired December 03, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight breaking news. Live to Beverly Hills, California. Murder in Hollywood. After leaving a star- studded red carpet premier of Cher`s new movie, "Burlesque," a top Hollywood publicist is gunned down in a hail of bullets fired into her luxury Mercedes-Benz as she drives through an upscale Beverly Hills neighborhood.
Major developments tonight. Beverly Hills police, reportedly armed with a search warrant, approach a person of interest in this brutal slaying in the lobby of his apartment building. Well, just moments later, the man -- he pulls out a pistol, fatally shooting himself in the head. Reports emerging tonight this man allegedly bragged to neighbors that he killed Ronni Chasen and he was waiting for a $10,000 payment for the job he did.
Did public relations maven Ronni Chasen know a little too much, and was she gunned down in a twisted Hollywood murder-for-hire plot?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was the killing of Ronni Chasen a murder for hire?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brutal shooting death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The popular Hollywood publicist.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shot about three or four times with hollow-point bullets.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All hell broke loose here in Hollywood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Person of interest shooting himself right in front of the cops.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Person of interest from the Chasen incident.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He pulled a gun as Beverly Hills detectives were interrogating him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a self-inflicted gunshot wound.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did this guy have anything to do with Ronni Chasen`s death?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Reports that he was supposed to be getting $10,000 soon, at one point saying it was for a job he did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it for a hit? Who would want to do this to her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it possible that Ronni Chasen was actually targeted here?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" on the truTV network, in for Nancy Grace. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. A key person of interest in the brutal murder of a top Hollywood publicist to the stars fatally shoots himself as Beverly Hills police arrive to question him. At this hour, reports now emerging Ronni Chasen was shot to death in a Hollywood business deal gone bad.
Let`s go straight out to Alexis Tereszcuk, reporter from Radaronline. She is standing by at the crime scene. Alexis, what`s the latest?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: Jean, you`re absolutely right. The suspect, the person of interest that the Beverly Hills police went in to speak to, they went -- they found him at the hotel/apartment building he`d been staying in. They only had a search warrant. They weren`t going to arrest him. They just wanted to talk to him. Instead of talking with him, he pulled out a gun and shot himself in the head.
The police have their surveillance video of this. They actually also have surveillance video from a home just right down the street from where we are right now which shows Ronni Chasen. It shows her car right after she was shot. She apparently was in her Mercedes driving. The man who I spoke with who owns the tape said that it appeared that she actually put her foot on the brake and stopped. But then she careened to the side and crashed into the telephone pole.
CASAREZ: Well, to Debra Mark, anchor of Newstalk radio KABC in Los Angeles. Tell us a little bit about Harold Martin Smith.
DEBRA MARK, TALK RADIO 790 KABC: Harold Smith has a criminal history. He has been in jail. He just finished up his parole. And he was -- he is being called a person of interest. And he was bragging about shooting Ronni Chasen. And we don`t know for sure because there`s conflicting reports. We hear that he was bragging about hitting her, shooting her. And then he`s also saying that he was going to get $10,000 because of a lawsuit and because of a different job. So there are conflicting accounts.
CASAREZ: But to Alexis Tereszcuk, reporter for Radaronline, he not only was bragging that he had shot this Hollywood publicist to the stars, but he also in the same breath was saying that he was going to get $10,000 for a job, right?
TERESZCUK: Absolutely right. He told the people that live near him that he had killed Ronni Chasen. And he also kept saying, I`m getting $10,000. I just completed a job. And they were suspect. They weren`t sure whether or not to believe him. But you know, this was something that couldn`t be taken lightly at all when somebody claims to have murdered somebody. So the police were tipped off, and in fact, were there to question him. They definitely considered him a person of interest. It wasn`t just some crazy guy that they weren`t taking lightly. They were following up on the tip and were actively trying to speak with him, which they can`t do now.
CASAREZ: So what`s the prevailing theory? Do people believe that this was a professional hit, that this possibly was a hit man contracted by someone who`s still walking the streets in Los Angeles.
TERESZCUK: Absolutely. So many people have said that they think this was somebody that was hired to kill her. The problem is, nobody really knows why. She didn`t have a scored lover, people don`t think. You know, she has a lot of family. There was a will where she left a lot of money to one niece. She only left $10 to another niece. Her brother has just been named special administrator of her will, so he`s kind of taking over her finances for now.
But everybody seems to say, the police sources have been saying that it looked looks like it was a planned shooting. The way that the bullets were in here, it seemed like it wasn`t somebody randomly firing. They were very expertly placed. And that this is definitely somebody that wanted her dead.
CASAREZ: Debra Mark, KABC Newsradio out of Los Angeles, tell us exactly where those bullets were because I believe there were at least five of them, right?
MARK: Right now, we`re hearing that at least three to five bullets were in her chest. But there -- there are also reports that it was in her shoulder and other areas of her body. But for sure, three to five bullets made it into her chest.
CASAREZ: All right. And one -- two to the right shoulder, and one to two in the right to left upper back.
All right, to Andrew Scott, former police chief, Boca Raton, Florida, the president of the AJS Consulting out of Miami. You`ve got shots when someone is driving a car, even turning a corner off of Sunset onto Whittier (ph). Look at the marksmanship for those shots.
ANDREW SCOTT, FORMER POLICE CHIEF, BOCA RATON: Well, clearly, the marksmanship indicates that they were close by, that if they did take her by surprise, which apparently they did, it was intended to clearly kill her, not just try to wound her. And given the number of shots and the location, I think it`s very clear that the intent was to kill her, based on the number of shots and in the location near her heart and shoulders.
CASAREZ: It was somebody that appears to have really known what they were doing. We got a special guest tonight. It is Robin Lyle. She is a neighbor of the person of interest that shot himself when police were trying to issue a search warrant as a person of interest in this case, of Harold Smith. Robin, do I have you?
ROBIN LYLE, NEIGHBOR OF HAROLD SMITH (via telephone): Yes. I`m male.
CASAREZ: Robin, thanks for calling tonight and joining us from Los Angeles. So you were a neighbor of Harold Smith. Tell us about this man that has been named at least a person of interest, some say a suspect, in the murder of this PR maven.
LYLE: Well, Harold Smith -- he lived, actually, around the corner from me and he had to pass my door as he came and went. So he stopped in often, and you know, spoke to me. He was cordial and -- you know, he usually was going out to get a beer and would come right back on his bike.
CASAREZ: What did he do for a living?
LYLE: I don`t know what he did for a living, but I remember a couple of months ago, he lost his job. And he was trying, I guess, to seek some type of wrongful termination, you know, suit or something. So that`s what he told me he was waiting for.
CASAREZ: So were you at the apartment complex at all when he took his own life, when police went there with a search warrant?
LYLE: No, I was on my way home from work. And I arrived as, you know, helicopters, and you know, yellow tape and -- that was my home greeting.
CASAREZ: So did he say to you or anybody you know that he, in fact, had killed Ronni Chasen, bragging about it?
LYLE: Well, I heard somebody had said that, but when I asked around if anybody, you know, that I`ve physically seen him speaking with, has he confided that type of information, they said no.
CASAREZ: Did you know he carried a gun on him? Because he did. He (INAUDIBLE) and shot himself.
LYLE: I didn`t know he carried a gun. I mean, he left often. And he would ride his bike. And he had these, like, you know, what I thought was peculiar. He would wear these gardening gloves, and like, you know, oversized gardening gloves and...
CASAREZ: All the time?
LYLE: Yes. You can`t -- you can`t fit gardening gloves in a trigger well. So I just thought that was strange, so it just didn`t add up.
CASAREZ: And he didn`t drive a car or own a car, correct?
LYLE: Not that I know of. He always rode his bicycle.
CASAREZ: Always rode his bicycle. Back to Alexis Tereszcuk, reporter for Radaronline. We are just getting some information in in regard to some home video surveillance cameras, because that was a residential area where she was shot in cold blood, that may have seen her car even after she was shot. What can you tell us about another vehicle that may be in that video?
TERESZCUK: Well, I spoke with the person who owns the video. It was their house. This is -- as you said, it`s Beverly Hills, 90210, the fanciest neighborhood in probably the whole country. And they have a video where it shows that a Town Car, a Lincoln Town Car, is going the opposite direction on the street. What he said to me was that it looks like it just happens to be there and it didn`t have anything to do with the shooting.
But the car was going very slowly. He said that couldn`t see the license plate on the car. But I`m sure that the police have started talking with the car rental agencies around, the limousine services, trying to figure out who -- pinpoint who was here and who might have seen something at the time. But the video shows her immediately after the shooting, after the bullets were shot into her.
CASAREZ: Exactly. We are understanding that it`s even less than a minute after she was shot. This video got the car driving down the road before it crashed into the tree.
We`re taking your calls live tonight. To Darlene in Arizona. Hi, Darlene.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I was just curious...
CASAREZ: Welcome.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, thank you. I was just curious -- a little nervous -- just curious if anybody had checked any of the cell phone records of all the people at the party. He had to have known what -- approximately what time she`d be coming down that. I think maybe somebody at the party tipped him off, like, She just left. And that way, he`s in position and ready to go.
CASAREZ: Yes, I think that`s very good. And Darlene, you don`t have to be nervous at all. We`re friends here. But the investigation that`s going on right now has to be immense with the Beverly Hills police, the Los Angeles police. I can imagine the agencies that are in it right now.
Let`s go to Andrew Scott, our law enforcement, former police chief, Boca Raton, Florida. There is so much that we don`t know that is happening right now. Just paint a picture for us of the subpoenas that are being issued and what law enforcement`s really looking at.
SCOTT: Oh, absolutely. There`s been a lot of silence from the police department, which indicates to me that they are -- got some very active leads and they`re working those leads, and so they`re being very tight- lipped about it. The other thing is there`s going to be a host of subpoenas for phone records, probably bank records, financial transaction records just because this might be a murder-for-hire for some type of business transaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a bizarre case, really straight out of Hollywood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A high-powered Hollywood insider.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hollywood publicist who worked really on some of the biggest movies in history.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gunned down in her Mercedes Benz.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was shot in Beverly Hills on Sunset Boulevard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who shot to death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ronni Chasen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The well connected, well liked Hollywood publicist.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hollywood is just in shock.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gunned down in her Mercedes-Benz.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twist to this case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say their investigation into the shooting death of a Hollywood publicist is not over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to reports, someone fired at least five shots into Chasen`s chest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You never know where a murder mystery will lead to. Sometimes, they take an unexpected turn.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspect.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) man police wanted to talk to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The situation took a turn for the worse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This person shot himself. It was a self-inflicted gunshot wound, pronounced dead later on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A coroner`s office worker described him as a male in his 40s.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And all police can say is, You know what? We have no leads, no suspect and really no motive at this time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Listen to this. You`re not going to believe what we found out. At least one of the bullets that went into Ronni Chasen was what is called a 9-millimeter hollow-point bullet. That`s just not any bullet. That is a bullet -- I`m going to have our expert explain it, but there`s a picture. Look at it. That is one that just expands once it gets in you.
To Andrew Scott, former police chief, explain what`s the purpose of a hollow-point bullet, and what does it do once it gets in you?
SCOTT: The full intent of a hollow-point bullet is to do the maximum amount of damage as it enters the body. And as it enters the body, it fragments, and that means there`s sort of, like, shrapnel that also goes and expands from the projectile, particularly if it hits a bullet (SIC). So the intent is to do the most damage with that type of bullet.
CASAREZ: Oh, that`s amazing. To Dr. Marty Makary, professor and physician of public health, joining us tonight from Johns Hopkins University in Washington, D.C. You have performed so many autopsies. You are so experienced. When you look at the bullets that went into Ronni Chasen as she is driving her car -- when you`re doing an autopsy in a situation like this, what are you looking for?
DR. MARTY MAKARY, JOHNS HOPKINS: Well, in particular, we`re looking for the mechanism of injury. These bullets, I must say, these hollow-point bullets, are known to splay as you`ve shown in the diagram. And they are particularly dangerous for those of us doing the surgery or doing the examination. These are bullets designed to push in, not to cut in. They`re designed to increase in diameter about three-fold, and they`re designed to cause major bleeding. And in facility, that`s probably what happened here. It can take five to ten minutes to bleed your entire blood volume and lose consciousness, and probably the hitting of the brakes in the car is related to that delay where you`ve got time to lose the blood volume from injuries from these hollow-point bullets.
CASAREZ: Unbelievable. Everybody, right before going to air tonight, we learned that this, in fact, may have been a business deal gone bad. There are so many theories around of what could have happened, what the truth is.
I want to go to Josh Sabarra. He is a friend and associate of Ronni Chasen, a Hollywood publicity executive. Thank you so much for joining us. This was a leader in the industry, someone that was involved in so many movies, promoting them, promoting the people involved. Can you just tell us a little bit, what was the average day like in the life of Ronni Chasen?
JOSH SABARRA, HOLLYWOOD PUBLICITY EXECUTIVE: Well, there`s no average day for a publicist, Jean, but she was -- she was a tenacious, hard-working publicist, somebody who had amazing craftspeople for clients, predominantly film makers and composers and people who really deserved attention, particularly during awards season. And she would pound the pavement to ingratiate her clients to the media and to the entertainment community. So she was one of the most hard-working people in the industry, very respected and well liked by almost everybody.
CASAREZ: And this had to be one of the most competitive areas in the entertainment business, also. This is a time when Academy Award-winning movies are about to be released. They are being released. Is this a pivotal time for a PR agent to Ronni Chasen to do her work?
SABARRA: Absolutely because this is the kick-off for awards season. This is around the time where voters -- Academy voters, Golden Glove voters start to get their screeners. This is the kick-off. This is -- this was her season.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone shot several times into her Mercedes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It could have been targeted. It could have been random. It could have been anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to reports, someone fired at least five shots into Chasen`s chest.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hollywood is just in shock.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Posh celebrity homes, names you would recognize.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ronni Chasen, (INAUDIBLE) publicist, shot in her Mercedes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bullets, the hollow points, were in her chest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At first, everyone was saying this looked like a random crime.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It could have been targeted. It could have been random. It could have been anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A person of interest shooting himself right in front of the cops.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When they tried to talk to him in the lobby, he pulled out a gun and just shot himself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A suicide sort of written like a crime novel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who was the guy that ends up shooting himself, and what`d he have to do with it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a case that`s far from over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session," in for Nancy Grace tonight. Was Harold Martin Smith a hired hit man? Did he get money, and then he took his own life? You know, a lot of people in that apartment complex are saying that he walked around, he was bragging. He said, You see that woman on television? I killed her. I killed her. I got money for it. I`m going to get money for it. But other people say he was just full of tall, tall tales all the time.
To Barbara in Michigan. Hi, Barbara.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Good evening, Jean.
CASAREZ: Good evening.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m calling -- I have two questions. I would like to know, this person that shot Ronni, have there been any reports that he`s been stalking her? Question number two, the route that she took home that evening, was that a normal route for her to take home?
And I would like to ask you, if possible, could you please say hello to my faithful mother, who is in Applewood nursing home, and she faithfully watches every evening and loves your program. And her name is Mary Ann Baker (ph). And I know she`s watching tonight.
CASAREZ: Well, Mary Ann Baker, I want to tell you that Nancy is watching, too. She`s hearing about you in Applewood nursing home, and Nancy Grace sends a big hug to you. And for everybody, Nancy`s going to be back on Monday. But thank you very much, Barbara, for all those words. You`ve got so many questions.
I want to go to the lawyers right now because you said something that just sparked my legal mind. To Randy Kessler, defense attorney out of Atlanta. To Remi Spencer (ph), defense attorney out of New York. First of all, we do understand that she was close to her condo that she lived that was close to the Los Angeles Country Club. So if she was driving that normal route, I look at someone lying in wait as she was driving her normal route, Randy.
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That very well could be the case. The problem is, when you have -- if he was a hit man, a lot of things died with him besides himself, a lot of information. The police are going to have to explore all of her relationships. You know, that earlier caller who said, What about the phone calls, the cell phone calls? They`ve got to find some connection because this guy had no motive, unless it was that he was being paid by someone who wanted her dead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s been a mystery from the beginning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had a very good reputation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really surprising developments.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very likable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All hell broke loose here in Hollywood.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Execution-style murder of famed Hollywood publicist Ronni Chasen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Popular Hollywood publicist.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was just driving home by herself, as she normally would.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For this to happen there is unbelievable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A Hollywood murder mystery takes a dramatic turn.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Ronnie Chasen was shot in her Mercedes.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The person of interest turns up dead.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A very mysterious incident.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A man police were questioning about the case shoots himself dead.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What role investigators believe this man played? Did he actually pull the trigger and kill Chasen? Was he an accomplice?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: "I`ve been bragging to neighbors about having a gun and being a hit-man."
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Chasen was shot three to four times with hollowed point bullets while driving home from a movie premier.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it was a hit, one would think it would have had to have been well coordinated. They would have had to know where she was going and when.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Shooting death of a Hollywood publicist.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It seems like someone was out to get Ronnie Chasen.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" on the truTV Network in for Nancy Grace.
Tonight Ronnie Chasen was a public relations maven to the stars. She walked the red carpet almost every night. She hobnobbed with the most elite in Hollywood. And now she is dead, gunned down in a barrage of bullets as she is just driving home to her condo.
And the question is, was it a hit-man? If it was a hit-man, and if it was Harold Martin Smith, who`s killed himself, then there is someone walking the streets of Los Angeles that hired that hit-man and they can be prosecuted for premeditated murder as well as the hit-man himself.
To Alexis Tereszcuk, standing by live, reporter of RadarOnline. You are at the crime scene where this all happened not that very long ago. What is the latest tonight as the investigation continues?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: Well, police are -- have been looking at this person of interest, Harold Smith, but with his untimely death, they are so -- pouring through all of her records, her financial records. Her brother in fact has just been named the special administrator of her estate. So he`s been able to access a safety deposit box.
This may have a new will or perhaps any other secret documents that might give police a clue as to what happened. The discovery of the tape that was turned into the police by the neighbors just right across the street from where she died has been a huge plus for the police investigation.
It really shows the -- unfortunately last seconds of her life, but something that could really help them pinpoint maybe exactly what happened and who was there to see. But the investigation continues daily. It`s huge in Los Angeles. This is a devastating murder to a community that definitely is really more about celebrating things, and certainly not experiencing a murder like this.
CASAREZ: To Debra Mark, anchor, Talkradio, KABC Newsradio in Los Angeles, the will was made public today of Ronnie Chasen`s. It is a very long will. It was from 1994, I believe. But it is very interesting because she specifically excludes one of her nieces by giving her $10?
DEBRA MARK, ANCHOR, TALKRADIO 780 KABC: That`s right. Her brother has two daughters. And one niece was given a substantial amount of money. It hasn`t been released exactly how much. $6.1 million estate we`re talking about.
The other niece gets 10 bucks. We don`t understand or we don`t know, I should say, the relationship between those two. But obviously, it wasn`t great.
CASAREZ: It shows that there is an issue. Now her brother, I understand, who is now the special administrator of her will, came out very quickly, saying that he thought it was a road rage incident?
MARK: Her brother, at first, was saying that it was a road rage incident. And also there are reports that her brother may have had some gambling debts but he`s denying that. He says that neither himself or his two daughters are involved in anything like that.
People are saying that that could be why Ronnie Chasen was targeted, to help pay off or because of these gambling debts that were owed. But he said that`s not true at all.
CASAREZ: And police are saying that this may be much, much more than a random road rage incident.
Harold Martin Smith, person of interest, subpoena, search warrant was executed, he took a gun, shot himself to death in the head.
To Robyn Lyle, you are the neighbor of Harold Martin Smith that was just deceased a day ago. Did he ever say anything to you about that he was going to get money, that he got a certain amount of money for something?
ROBIN LYLE, NEIGHBOR OF PERSON OF INTEREST, HAROLD SMITH: Yes. He was speaking of money he was going to receive, but it was nowhere near the tune of $10,000. And, you know, he was having really bad financial problems. I would think he would speak up if he was so -- you know, such a bragger, he would say yes, I`m waiting on 10,000. He never said that.
CASAREZ: But he told you he got some money? Correct?
LYLE: Yes. He received money from a settlement that he`s had a case pending. I think he was represented by -- I can`t remember the name. But anyway, he said he got the money and it was like under three grand.
CASAREZ: Under three grand, but he got money recently. Critical fact right there.
LYLE: Yes.
CASAREZ: Randy Kessler, Remi Spencer, defense attorney out of New York.
Randy Kessler, I covered a case at CourtTV with Nancy years ago. I bet you remember it. The James Sullivan case in Atlanta, Georgia. Socialite James Sullivan hired a hit-man to go to the front door of his socialite wife, Leta Sullivan, with a bouquet of flowers, shot Leta Sullivan to death. It was a contract hit.
Well, that hit-man turned to become a prosecution witness and gave all the information at trial about the business deal and how he was hired by James Sullivan. He helped ensure a conviction.
If Harold Martin Smith was the hit-man -- he`s dead now.
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s exactly right. The wealth of information that died with him. I mean, if he did it, nobody is crying that he`s dead if he did this horrible crime, except the people that really want closure and you want to find out who else was involved. And that`s the problem.
Exploring relationships he`s the one who could have given the key to jail -- to the person who really deserves it. The person that went out and find him. I mean this guy was desperate, he needed the money. He was the perfect hit-man because he obviously had a death wish and said he wanted to kill himself before he`d go back to jail.
So that`s the tragedy in this tragedy.
CASAREZ: But to Remi Spencer, you know how you`re going to link this Harold Martin Smith possibly with someone else besides e-mails and text messages? Ballistics. Because he carried a gun on him.
If you can match that gun to the gun that killed Ronnie Chasen, you`ve got a case.
REMI SPENCER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You`re right. You`re right. And we know that this Harold -- this gentleman who killed himself was a convicted felon. So there is a very good chance that he did not get that gun from any lawful means.
I`m sure that the police are doing, as you were talking about earlier, Jean, a very thorough investigation that we know very little about. So they`re looking for any communication that anybody connected to Ronnie Chasen and Harold would have had to try and link up to the murder.
CASAREZ: You are so right.
To Katie in Louisiana. Hi, Katie.
KATIE, CALLER LOUISIANA: Hi, Jean. How are you doing this evening?
CASAREZ: I`m fine. Thank you for calling.
KATIE: I sure do miss Nancy.
CASAREZ: You`re going to get her back on Monday.
KATIE: Yes, I hope she is listening. Nancy -- I`m in criminal justice and she was my mentor. And she`s the reason why I`m in college right now.
CASAREZ: You know I think I know of you. I have heard of you. Nancy has told me.
KATIE: So I have been trying for years to get on here and I haven`t been able to get on here.
CASAREZ: Well, here you are and Nancy is listening. So what`s your question?
KATIE: OK. Well, you guys touched base on one of the things I was going to ask about -- it was about, one of the other program I watched was covering the same thing and they said that he only rode a bicycle. And -- that because of the fact they could not find a vehicle registered in his name or they couldn`t find proof that he was the driver, there was probably an accomplice.
CASAREZ: Right. You are exactly right. They are saying that possibly, if he was not the hit-man, he was an accomplice.
To Andrew Scott, former police chief, joining us tonight out of Miami. Give us a profile of a hit-man. It`s not the brightest bulb, is it?
ANDREW J. SCOTT, FMR. CHIEF OF POLICE, BOCA RATON, FL.; PRESIDENT, AJS CONSULTING: Well, no, they`re not necessarily the brightest bulb. And a true hit-man has no conscience.
Now I would imagine if this Mr. Smith is indeed the individual that was hired to do this murder, they got him on the cheap. He didn`t seem to be very bright. He wouldn`t be a true professional hit person, would not bragging about the hit that they did.
And so that leads me to believe that he wasn`t probably the best hit person they could have. But unfortunately now, we`re never going to find out simply because he killed himself.
CASAREZ: No, but we`ve got the ballistics. How important is that ballistic testing that they`re doing on the gun that he used to kill himself and the one that was used at the scene to kill Ronnie Chasen?
SCOTT: Well, that`s going to be absolutely critical. And if they are able to link his gun to his death, and to that to Miss Chasen, then obviously they have a good correlation that he probably did commit the murder.
Now the bigger question is, who put him up to it? And that is where the police are now striving to find that evidence.
CASAREZ: That is right.
To Debbie in Illinois. Hi, Debbie.
DEBBIE, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Hi, Jean. You`re doing a good job for Nancy.
CASAREZ: Thank you. Thank you.
DEBBIE: I`m very nervous because I`ve waited so long. I wanted to say first of all tell Nancy that I`m praying for her. I guess she`s listening.
Nancy, I love you. And you`re doing such a great job. We can`t wait to get you back.
And my question is, do you think that they`re going through files and stuff maybe at her home that see might have kept and maybe could lead to who might have had this done to her?
CASAREZ: Now say that again. I couldn`t quite hear you.
DEBBIE: Oh, I`m sorry. Are they going through her files and everything that she keeps -- maybe that could find something there that might have --
CASAREZ: Definitely.
DEBBIE: Yes.
CASAREZ: Yes. Christine, you`re exactly right.
Debra Mark, anchor, KABC Newsradio. They have executed search warrants at this point in Ronnie Chasen`s home, I`m sure her office, and that will give them access to all the files.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: There`s big news breaking today. It is the latest bizarre twist in a real-life Hollywood murder mystery.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Beverly Hills PD, they have shut this case down.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This dramatic turn just so fresh in the story.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Legendary publicist Ronnie Chasen was shot to death in her car in Beverly Hills just hours after she went to the premier of "Burlesque" two weeks ago.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Beverly Hills police, say what? They want to keep everything under wraps.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The mystery depends.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Hollywood publicist shot, Sunset Boulevard, but now a man police wanted to talk to, as you just heard, shot himself.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A man whom police called a person of interest shot and killed himself.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They are not releasing his identity.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Just as cops came to question him about Chasen`s death.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Person of the interest shooting himself right in front of the cops. They wanted to talk to him, ask him some questions. He was pronounced dead right there in the apartment lobby.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The mayor saying this was targeted. Started giving information about this, and then, you know, distanced himself. So we just don`t know right now.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: To Michelle Golland, psychologist and expert on momlogic.com joining us from Los Angeles tonight. This man Harold Martin Smith had an extensive criminal record. It involved drugs, it involved firearms. But there were many, many burglaries that he committed.
MICHELLE GOLLAND, PSYCHOLOGIST, EXPERT ON MOMLOGIC.COM: Yes. Right.
CASAREZ: In fact he even told people, "I`m not going back to prison. If there`s ever that likelihood, I`m just going to kill myself."
Could that be why he killed himself rather than his participation in this crime?
GOLLAND: Absolutely. I mean I think it`s clear that he was not going to be taken alive, no matter what the situation was. So what I`m interested in clinically in this individual is, is this someone who is delusional and has issues where he`s watching television and sort of taking in what is happening and incorporating it into his own world and using it to brag it to the people in his community.
Because that`s what doesn`t make sense, is this person who is that unstable really going to be the one who`s chosen to be a hit-man?
CASAREZ: But on the other --
GOLLAND: It seems unclear.
CASAREZ: On the other hand, this is someone that could have been prone to violence, Alexis Tereszcuk.
There are reports coming out right now about him trying to break into a home in Manhattan Beach, California, suburb of Los Angeles. What do you know about that?
TERESZCUK: Well, it was about a year ago, Jean, that he tried to break into quite a few homes in Manhattan Beach which is another very exclusive part of Los Angeles. And a couple confronted him.
When they did, when the husband confront him, he actually said that he was going to kill him, too. The police were called. He was arrested. He actually had marijuana on him. And so he was arrested for that as well.
So this is not something that`s new. He has threatened to kill people before.
CASAREZ: And one fact can`t be denied. This is a man that carried a gun on him. A convicted felon that walked around the streets with L.A. with a gun.
Christine in North Carolina, hi, Christine.
CHRISTINE, CALLER FROM NORTH CAROLINA: Hi, Jean. How are you?
CASAREZ: I`m fine. Thank you for calling.
CHRISTINE: I love you and Nancy. And this is my favorite show.
CASAREZ: Thank you.
CHRISTINE: My question is, do they know if the bullet that he shot himself with is the same kind that she was killed with?
CASAREZ: You know, that is the question of the year. That is a critical, critical question. We don`t know. And that is something that law enforcement, they will not be revealed.
Do you know, Christine, that we don`t even have the autopsy report yet done on Ronnie Chasen? It is sealed at this point. Let me tell you. They are working day and night on this case. And I think we need to watch it every day because I think it will develop possibly very quickly.
To Lakisha in Indiana. Am I saying that correctly?
LAKISHA, CALLER FROM INDIANA: Yes, Jean.
CASAREZ: Good.
LAKISHA: How are you doing tonight?
CASAREZ: I`m fine. Thank you so much for calling from Indiana.
LAKISHA: I love you, too. I like seeing you on Nancy`s show and truTV.
CASAREZ: Well, thank you.
LAKISHA: And I miss Nancy. I`m happy she`s going to come back Monday.
CASAREZ: She is. You`ve got her on Monday.
LAKISHA: And I`m happy that the surgery went great.
CASAREZ: Yes.
LAKISHA: Yes.
CASAREZ: She`s been resting all week.
LAKISHA: There`s just so much happening in the world nowadays, you know?
CASAREZ: Yes.
LAKISHA: People killing their kids and crime everywhere you go. You know small towns --
CASAREZ: It`s unbelievable.
LAKISHA: Yes. I was just wanting to know if the lady had any grown children or if she was married?
CASAREZ: Yes.
To Ronnie -- to Alexis -- let`s go to Debra Mark, anchor, KABC Newstalk Radio. She wasn`t married but she had been way back in her life. But she did have a brother and nieces, correct?
MARK: Sixty-four years old, never been married, no children. Had a brother and her brother had two daughters so she has two nieces. So a brother and two nieces. That`s all we know. Living relative relatives, anyway.
CASAREZ: All right. Alexis Tereszcuk, what else can you tell us about Ronnie Chasen. We understand that she was married a long, long time ago, but hasn`t been for many, many years.
TERESZCUK: You`re absolutely right. She was and she`s a single woman. Very prominent. A lot of her friends that we spoke with said they didn`t know of any one who was special in her life. But -- so they didn`t think that that was perhaps an issue here.
It wasn`t like a scorned lover had tried to murder her or in fact did murder. That it -- she was just a woman who is very professional, really friendly.
You know here in Los Angeles there were 100 people just at the memorial the night that they found out that she died. People were openly sobbing at the memorial talking about how much they loved her. She had many, many friends all across the country and was very respected. So that`s why this is such a shock to the community.
CASAREZ: And this case is going to become -- you think it`s big now? This case is going to get bigger and bigger and bigger. I predict this is going to be a death penalty case.
To Andrew Scott, former police chief, joining us out of Miami right now. There is a videotape of this man, Harold Martin Smith, when he shot himself in the head. Obviously it hasn`t been released but there is tape of this.
Is there anything that can be used by the way he holds the gun, what hand he holds the gun in to compare with the shots that ended up in Ronnie Chasen?
SCOTT: That`s a very good question and a very good observation. There is possibly the ability to take a look at the video of his suicide and compare that to possibly re-enacting the shooting of Miss Chasen and that could very well lead to additional corroborative evidence as to possibly that he might be the shooter or it could even exclude him but it`s going to be very difficult.
CASAREZ: That is right.
To Valerie in Wisconsin. Hi, Valerie.
VALERIE, CALLER FROM WISCONSIN: Hi. How are you? I just want to say I hope Nancy Grace gets better and I`m looking forward to seeing her again on TV.
My question is, with this whole case I find it unbelievable that it was actually just a regular random shooting. I think that it was something more than that. I think that they need to focus on the family because of that will that she was apparently supposed to redo.
I think they need to pay close attention to the family and what`s on that. I think that guy -- I think he was looking for publicity or whatnot. But I believe that --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CASAREZ: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories and, more importantly, the people who touched our lives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The three Skelton brothers remain in grave danger.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Seven-year-old Alexander, 5-year-old Tanner, and 9-year-old Andrew.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Missing.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Reports at least four dive teams now on scene searching local lakes, trying to find three missing brothers. Reports now emerging that dad John Skelton has confessed to killing the boys.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The father of three missing boys.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Missing and presumed dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I believe he did it? Absolutely.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: I`m almost speechless as the details of this unfold.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Breaking news. Just released warrants in the Zahra Baker case reveal blood and tissue evidence were found inside the family home.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The sheriff`s investigators in Burke County learned that Zahra had possibly been in a block house on County Line Road where, according to court documents, two men allegedly raped her.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Asked if they killed her, a source told police, quote, "They might have hit her in the head."
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: What type of pedophile rapes a one-legged child? And what type of parents or stepparents doesn`t call the police immediately and turn those men in?
If that is in fact true that is one of the most disgusting, disgraceful things we`ve ever heard on this show.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: They had discovered a mass, a solid mass. It`s not liquid. It was not fibrous. And it was -- could be cancer.
In the end, God answered our prayers. And I`m out of the hospital. And I`m back with the twins. And it was not cancer.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Tonight let us stop to remember Army Sergeant Nathan Bouchard, 24 years old from Wildomar, California. He was killed in Iraq. He was awarded the Bronze Star, the Purple Heart, and the Army Commendation Medal.
He loved to hike and camp with his friends and do his favorite things. He loved to relax on the beach. He was a football player in high school and he joined the Army after the attacks on September 11th. He leaves behind his parents, John and Aleda, his brothers Johnny and Sean.
Nathan Bouchard, a true American hero.
Thank you so much to all of our guests, for you, being at home. We`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern.
Good night, everybody. Good night, Nancy. We`ll see you on Monday.
END
