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Nancy Grace

Car of Abductor of Juliani Cardenas Found in Canal

Aired January 28, 2011 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight with breaking news out of California. A 4-year-old little boy ripped from the arms of his own grandmother, Juliani Cardenas. He stayed home from pre-school. He didn`t feel good. His grandma was taking care of him while his mother look worked. But suddenly, a man walks into the house, pushes his grandma, takes Juliani and won`t let go. She watches helplessly as he is kidnapped in broad daylight. Just moments before the kidnapping, the suspect is caught on surveillance video at a local convenience store. What`s he doing? He`s buying beer.

Stunning developments tonight. After pulling up car after car after car from a local canal, investigators confirm they have located the suspect`s car under water. But with no sign of either Juliani or the suspect`s body, the 4-year-old`s mother holds out hope that her little boy will be found alive. She is with us tonight live. Did the suspect dump the car, then take off with the little boy, or has the search for Juliani come to a tragic end?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF ADAM CHRISTIANSON, STANISLAUS COUNTY: Ladies and gentlemen, we found the car we`ve been looking for. The suspect`s vehicle, the 2003 Toyota Corolla, has been located in the siphon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news. The case of missing 4-year-old boy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juliani Cardenas.

CHRISTIANSON: How come we didn`t find it sooner? How come we found the car today and not a week ago? These are very, very difficult conditions under which to search.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a migrant worker that said he saw the car go down. He saw two people, a man and a little boy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) grandmother, who you see here, was watching Juliani when her ex-boyfriend rips the little boy from her mother`s arms.

TABITHA CARDENAS, MOTHER: Please, I need him home! I know Juliani! He`s telling that he misses me and that he wants to come home. And he needs to -- he needs to bring him home!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" on the truTV network, in for Nancy Grace. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. Breaking news out of California. A 4-year-old little boy ripped from the arms of his own grandma, kidnapped in broad daylight. Just moments ago, investigators confirm they have located the suspect`s car under water at a local canal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With respect to witnesses` statements, corroborating evidence, everything, tells us that that car went in the canal and that Jose and Juliani went with it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... vehicle used in Juliani Cardenas`s abduction has been found in a canal.

CHRISTIANSON: All of our teams and our team members held out hope, myself included. Everything told us that we were going to find the car in the canal. And that`s unfortunately the end result.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twenty-seven-year-old Jose Rodriguez snatched the child from the grandmother at her home in broad daylight.

CARDENAS: I need him home!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her ex-boyfriend wrestled the boy away from his grandmother, then just took off.

CARDENAS: I don`t know what happened! I just want him back!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Let us go straight out to the sheriff of Stanislaus County, who is with us tonight, Sheriff Adam Christianson. He is at the canal search site. Sheriff, thank you so much for joining us. What is happening right now?

CHRISTIANSON: Well, right now, Nancy (SIC), we`ve just completed a diving operation into the siphon. We`ve been working with a dive operation, Action Towing and Dive Team, Incorporated, a commercial diving operation out of Fresno that was gracious enough to help us. We`ve been able to locate the target vehicle, as well as two additional vehicles. So right now, teams are in the process of pulling all three vehicles out of the canal simultaneously.

CASAREZ: How did you find out that this was the vehicle of, you believe, Jose Rodriguez, who took the little boy some days ago from his grandma?

CHRISTIANSON: Well, initially, we put sonar equipment into the block, into the siphon, and we found some anomalies. Wanted to double check those again, so we did. In addition, the FBI out of LA, their dive team brought up some specter (ph) scanning sonar. We utilized that technology, as well, sent the ROV down into the siphon. And we were able to see the license plate on the suspect`s vehicle using the camera equipment on board that sonar technology.

CASAREZ: So how deep is this vehicle? And how dangerous is this for the dive teams?

CHRISTIANSON: Well, this is about 50 feet under ground. And it is very dangerous, even though the water authority has been great. They`ve shut a couple of gates and reduced the flow and level of the water. But there`s still plenty of water coming through that siphon. So these commercial divers are experts in this particular area. It`s very similar to cave diving. And they were able to get in there and get a line on the car.

CASAREZ: Everyone, we are taking your calls live. This is a dive operation that is going on right now as we speak in California. The vehicle of Jose Rodriguez believed to have abducted little Juliani was found by sonar this morning. Sheriff, I want to ask you one more question. Why are you having to bring three cars out together in this dive?

CHRISTIANSON: Because all three of the vehicles are so tightly aligned with each other that the divers felt the best thing to do was bring them out simultaneously, as opposed to separately.

CASAREZ: All right. And I have to ask you the question, you do not know at this point if little Juliani is in that car or not.

CHRISTIANSON: That is correct. We do not know yet what is inside the car.

CASAREZ: All right. We have with us tonight exclusively the mother of little Juliani, Tabitha Cardenas, who is joining us tonight from a vigil that is occurring for her precious, precious little boy. Tabitha, thank you so much for taking the time to join us. How did you find out that the car of Jose Rodriguez, your ex-boyfriend, had been located?

CARDENAS: The police told me. They told me when they found it, so I found out before all the news teams did.

CASAREZ: We are so sorry, what you are going through right now. What do you think happened? You know Jose Rodriguez better than anybody. What happened here?

CARDENAS: I think -- I think that Jose might have dumped his car, and somebody`s helping him. He probably just dumped his car and somebody picked him up. But I`m thinking, who would do that, you know? I`m thinking it must have been a family member because, I mean, if you`re just somebody`s friend, why would you go to such great lengths to help them, you know?

CASAREZ: So you think Juliani is alive?

CARDENAS: I`m praying that he`s still alive!

CASAREZ: We all are, Tabitha. We all are praying that.

I want to go to Debra Mark, anchor, Talkradio 790 KABC. Take us back to the beginning, Debra. When did this all happen and how did this all happen?

DEBRA MARK, TALKRADIO 790 KABC: About a week ago, the little boy was at his house. He didn`t go to school. He had a cold that day. He was with his grandmother. And Tabitha`s estranged boyfriend came to the house, knocked down the grandmother and took the boy away from his grandmother. The boy was screaming. And neither have been heard from since that day.

CASAREZ: To Ellie Jostad, NANCY GRACE producer. Talk to us about this canal because authorities have been so focused on this canal from almost the very beginning. Why?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right. Well, a witness -- and this is about a 50-year-old farm worker. He`s very familiar with that area. He claims that he drove past a vehicle right near that canal. He says he saw a man and a little boy or a youngster inside the car. He passed by. And then in his rearview mirror, he says he saw the car go into the canal. And authorities were able to find fresh tracks near the canal. That`s why they think this is a credible tip. That`s why they`ve been searching the canal for this car.

CASAREZ: Sheriff Adam Christianson, sheriff of Stanislaus County, which is so kind to join us tonight. As this search is progressing -- everyone, the search is going on right now. They have located the vehicle of Jose Rodriguez, but the challenge is to get it out. And Sheriff, I want to ask you -- it wasn`t that many days ago that this vehicle went into the canal. How could it be trapped at such a deep level with so many cars, it appears as though, on either side of it?

CHRISTIANSON: Well, it really has to do with the design and construction of the siphon and where water is diverted underground, and then under a natural creekbed area, and then back up aboveground. And typically, the siphon is designed to clear debris off the top of the water, but a very heavy vehicle could become lodged in the siphon. And you know, we had thought about that all along. And in this case, now we know that, in fact, multiple vehicles in this case got caught up, and that`s probably why we didn`t find this particular suspect`s vehicle downstream, but rather in the siphon.

CASAREZ: Do you believe -- have you -- you`ve taken out -- how many cars have you taken out, 12 or something so far?

CHRISTIANSON: Yes. Correct. Yes, 12 other stolen vehicles and a stolen motorcycle. So it`s not uncommon for people to dump everything from stolen cars to trash and garbage into this canal.

CASAREZ: When you have taken out these other vehicles in the last week, are the windows broken? Are they knocked out? Or are the cars intact as you take them out?

CHRISTIANSON: Well, these cars have been dumped. They`ve -- you know, we`ve got cars stolen as far back as 2003, and as most recent as January 1st, 2011. So yes, they are in various states of condition. But most -- because they`re stolen cars, they`re primarily stripped out, so there`s not much left other than, you know, the bodies and the frames.

CASAREZ: All right. Everybody, we want to remind you a diving operation is taking place right now in Patterson, California, at a very large canal that is actually used for irrigation, but it is also a dumping site for vehicles. The vehicle of Jose Rodriguez, according to law enforcement, was found early this morning by the help of sonar. And now the challenge is taking place right now as they try to get it out.

Sheriff, how long before you believe you`ll be able to take that vehicle and take it up those 50 feet?

CHRISTIANSON: Well, we`re just waiting right now to commence the operation, which involves a tow truck and pulling the vehicles out. So we should know in the next 10 or 15 minutes whether or not there`s anything in the vehicle. But again, this operation is very, very specific, very meticulous. We want it done safely. So you know, 15 to 30 minutes for sure, we should know what`s in the vehicle, if anything at all.

CASAREZ: And have divers had to go down those 50 feet to hook something onto those cars...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

CASAREZ: ... for them to be brought up?

CHRISTIANSON: Yes. That`s correct. We sent a diver down into the siphon, two divers, actually, and they were able to connect cables to all three vehicles.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARDENAS: I want to say to bring him, Juliani, back because he needs to be with his mom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He forced his way into the house, pushed her to the floor and snatched the child.

CARDENAS: Jose, if you`re watching this, Juliani needs to come home!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news in the case of a missing 4-year- old California boy, Juliani Cardenas, who has been missing for 10 days now.

CHRISTIANSON: Ladies and gentlemen, we`ve found the car we`ve been looking for.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The county sheriff`s department there says the vehicle used in his abduction has been found in a canal near Patterson, California.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspect`s vehicle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was under water in a canal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, you take a look back here. That`s the siphon gate. And on the west siphon gate -- that`s the one on the farthest side of the canal -- that`s where the Toyota is believed, or rather is lodged under water.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So far, no sign of the little boy or the accused kidnapper.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The day after Juliani went missing, a witness, a farm worker in the area, reported seeing the car drive into the canal with a man and a boy in the car.

CARDENAS: (INAUDIBLE) told all she could do was hang on to him! And she wouldn`t let go!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez, in for Nancy Grace. We do have some breaking news coming out of California right now. The car of suspect Jose Rodriguez is being pulled out of a canal right now. Divers are in that canal 50 feet deep, we have been told by the sheriff of Stanislaus County. You`re looking at live pictures as that dive goes. They are going to be pulling out three vehicles because the car of Jose Rodriguez is lodged between them. The sheriff has told us from 15 to 20 minutes, 15 to 30 minutes, we should know if little Juliani is in that car or not.

I want to go out to, exclusively with us tonight, Tabitha Cardenas, who is the mother of Juliani, joining us from a vigil that`s taking place tonight for her precious little boy. Tabitha, what is going through your mind right now?

CARDENAS: I`m just hoping and praying that that`s not my -- my son`s not in the car. I mean, you know, that`s all I can hope for. But what makes me mad is that that farm worker didn`t call as soon as he seen that car go in. You know, maybe -- if my son is in there, maybe they could have saved him!

CASAREZ: And Tabitha, what you`re saying is right. He waited several days. He was scared to initially call authorities, so he did not. Have you spoken with any of the family members of Jose Rodriguez? And what are they saying?

CARDENAS: Yes. I`ve talked a lot to his mom. And she has called me crying because she thinks that Jose -- she`s hoping Jose`s not in the car, too.

CASAREZ: Sure. Do you think he could have gone to Mexico?

CARDENAS: That`s a possibility. You know, I`ve been telling the police that they need to -- the FBI that they need to keep people at all the borders, you know, and check every car because, you know, now he`s not in his car. He could be -- he`s going to -- might be hiding in somebody else`s car.

CASAREZ: Did Juliani call Jose Daddy? Is that what Jose was used to?

CARDENAS: Yes. Yes. Juliani did call him Dad.

CASAREZ: So do you see Jose doing something like this to a little boy that loved him so much?

CARDENAS: Well, you know what I think? If Jose -- if he wanted to commit suicide, you know, why did he have to take my son with him? That was wrong!

CASAREZ: It was wrong, if that is the case. Had Jose just lost his job, Tabitha?

CARDENAS: He got fired from his job because he was going to get into a fight with one of the older -- I don`t know if he was a boss or what, but he was going to get in a fight with some guy at work. So he got fired.

CASAREZ: OK. We are taking your calls live. Let`s go out to Sheeba in Illinois. Hi, Sheeba.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jane -- I get you wrong every time, baby. I am so sorry.

CASAREZ: What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jean. My question is, is the father of this precious little boy supporting the mother in all of her grief right now and helping her? And is his family helping her? I can`t imagine going through something like this by myself.

CASAREZ: You know, to Tabitha Cardenas, who is with us tonight. You`ve got the whole country behind you right now, and I hope you feel that. Juliani`s father is actually in Texas, you believe, right, his birth father?

CARDENAS: Yes. Yes.

CASAREZ: Have you heard from him at all?

CARDENAS: I haven`t spoke -- no, I haven`t spoken to him at all. His sister had gotten ahold of me through FaceBook, but I mean, all she said that she`ll be praying for me. And I don`t know if Lalo (ph) knows anything that`s going on because he never talks -- I mean, I never talk to him. And he`s never been there for Juliani, either.

CASAREZ: How is your mother doing? Because your mother, Juliani`s grandma, was the one that was holding him when he was kidnapped.

CARDENAS: She`s horrible. We`re all praying for the best.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Original reports from the grandmother that the suspect, Jose Rodriguez, came to her house and snatched the child out of her arms, pushed her to the ground and drove away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The car that investigators say was used to kidnap him has been found. It was under water in a canal. We`re waiting to hear word if there were any bodies in that car.

CARDENAS: That`s why I`m worried. I think he has my son.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session," in for Nancy Grace. I want to give you an update. Divers are about to go into that water to bring that car up. It is believed, momentarily, once that car -- and this would be the car of the suspect, Jose Rodriguez -- is brought up, authorities believe they will know if Juliani Cardenas is inside.

I want to go to Marc Klaas right now, who is the president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation, joining us from Colorado City. Marc, I want you to talk to Tabitha right now because this is the time, this is the moment that she has dreaded, that she has to now face because that dive is taking place right now. That car -- they found it this morning, of Jose Rodriguez -- is being brought up.

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, Tabitha, like everybody else, my heart just goes out to you. And to think that another human being could do this to somebody, their heart has to be filled with so much hate, so much vitriol, that it is really unimaginable to good law-abiding citizens like us.

But to direct your anger toward the man who saw the car go into the canal is, I think, incorrect because I believe the reality is, is that had the Amber Alert not been called -- and this was the perfect case for an Amber Alert -- and had that man not seen that and put two and two together, this is a case that might have gone unsolved forever.

And I can tell you as somebody who has lost a child -- and I pray that this is not what you find out over the course of the next couple of hours - - ultimately, it`s better to know that nobody can hurt your child anymore than to go on living with no knowledge whatsoever. And again, I`m so terribly sorry for what you have to go through right now.

CASAREZ: Tabitha Cardenas, joining us exclusively tonight. You know, we see your little boy. He is precious. Tell us about him. What is he like?

CARDENAS: He`s very loving. And he likes to play on the computer and he likes to dance. He`s my little angel!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, we found the care we`ve been looking for. The suspect`s vehicle -- the 2003 Toyota Corolla -- has been located in the siphon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news in the case of missing four-year- old boy --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juliani Cardenas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How come we didn`t find it sooner, how come we found the car today, and not a week ago?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are very, very difficult conditions under which to search.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a migrant worker that said he saw the car go down. He saw two people -- a man and a little boy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her grandmother, who you see here, was watching Juliani when her ex-boyfriend rips the little boy from her mother`s arms.

TABITHA CARDENAS: Please, I need him home. I know Juliani, he`s telling him that he misses me and that he wants to come home and he needs to -- he needs to bring him home.

I think that Jose might have dumped his car and somebody`s helping him. He probably just dumped his car and somebody picked him up. But I`m thinking, who would do that, you know? I`m thinking it must have been a family member because, I mean, if you`re just somebody`s friend, why would you go to such great lengths to help them, you know? I`m praying that he`s still alive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: We do have some breaking news out of California right now. Stanislaus County officials, California State officials, the FBI, and dive teams -- including some out of Fresno, California -- are, right now, retrieving the vehicle of Jose Rodriguez, believed to have abducted Juliana -- Juliani Cardenas a week ago Monday.

We should know within 15 minutes to a half-hour whether the little boy, Juliani, could be in that car. And we are hoping and praying for the best.

Tabitha Cardenas, who is with us tonight exclusively, the mother of Juliani. Take us back to the beginning. It was just a week ago Tuesday. You were getting ready for work. Jose Rodriguez came to your home initially in the early morning, right?

CARDENAS: Yes, he did.

CASAREZ: What did he want?

CARDENAS: He didn`t say anything. He just told me -- I mean, he just knocked on the door, and I opened the door, and I`m like, what are you doing here, you know? It`s 7:00 in the morning. My son`s asleep. I told him, you need to get out of here. And then he just, like, put his head down and walked away and he didn`t say nothing.

CASAREZ: And then, after that, did he go to the school?

CARDENAS: I believe he went to the school after I had taken off to work. He waited a little while before he went to the school.

CASAREZ: And then, your mother was keeping Juliani at home because he wasn`t feeling well, and he came back in the afternoon and what played out?

CARDENAS: Actually, he came back to my house after I had left to work. And he made his way in the house and told my mom, "Oh, I just came to tell Juliani bye." And then my mom pushed him out of the house, and he said, "Bye, Papas (ph)" and then he took off. But then, later that day, he came back, and that`s when he took him.

CASAREZ: And he left the car in the driveway with the car doors open, correct?

CARDENAS: Yes, that`s correct.

CASAREZ: To take little Juliani as fast as he could. We`re taking your calls live, and we want to tell everybody, we`re just getting some information in -- that the Sheriff of Stanislaus County, who is with us during this show, -- he has stepped away right now to talk with his team. We hope he will be back, but right now, he is talking with his team on the ground as that search goes on.

Tamara in Texas -- Hi, Tamara.

CALLER: Hi, Jean.

CASAREZ: Thank you for calling.

CALLER: Thank you for taking my call. Well, one of my questions was answered. This was his step-dad, right?

CASAREZ: Yes. Yes.

CALLER: And, you know, I just want to know -- to, you know, to say to the family, we are having a benefit tomorrow for another little boy and tonight we will be saying prayers for them and tomorrow, and maybe if this is, which we hope it is not, maybe this mother can feel in her heart like the mother of a little girl -- nine-year-old girl in Tucson, that God needs her more than we need her.

CASAREZ: Tabitha, as I told you, the whole country is behind you tonight and you are going to have another baby. You are seven months pregnant right now?

CARDENAS: No, I`m eight -- I`m almost nine months already.

CASAREZ: And this is Jose`s child?

CARDENAS: Yes, it is.

CASAREZ: Couldn`t that be another motive to not commit suicide, Tabitha? Was he looking forward to this child?

CARDENAS: Yes, he was. He spent, like, $200 on her already. He bought her Christmas Presents. I mean, you know, that`s why I`m -- I was, like, puzzled as to why he did this.

CASAREZ: All right. To Bill Majeski, former NYPD detective. Majeski and associates joining us from New York. Your thoughts on the dive operation that is extremely dangerous to the divers, but it`s taking place right now as we speak.

BILL MAJESKI, PRIVATE DETECTIVE: Well, you know, clearly it is a dangerous operation because there are always currents in the water. The deeper you go, the more forceful the currents become. But it appears that they have everything under control with that whole situation. And it`s just a question of bringing up the cars and hopefully -- hopefully the child is not in the car.

This whole situation with, you know, Jose, it seems like he`s a -- he`s mentally unstable and I`m sure the police have spoken to people in his life to find out what he`s been doing or what he was doing the first -- those few days before the abduction took place. You know, clearly, he would have shown or exhibited some kinds of signs or, perhaps, even talked about suicidal tendencies, you know, to somebody in his life.

So, they may have that information and they`re not sharing it, and that`s why the main focus is on these cars at this point. But, you know, hopefully that`ll be resolved to the point where the child is not in the car, and then they can continue their investigation. You know, our prayers are with the mother and the entire family.

CASAREZ: Yes, they are. Let`s go to the lawyers tonight. Christopher Amolsch, defense attorney, joining us tonight out of Washington, D.C., and Meg Strickler, international law attorney, joining us out of Atlanta.

Christopher Amolsch, the suspect in this case, Jose Rodriguez, he has been found guilty in the past of manslaughter. So we do see that there is a violent tendency there, culminating in that felony conviction. What are your thoughts about the outcome of the dive that`s taking place right now to retrieve that vehicle?

CHRISTOPHER AMOLSCH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, as strange as it might sound, this doesn`t strike me as a classic crime of violence. I mean, he didn`t walk up with a gun and shoot anybody. And I`m listening to this story, and I`m going to be, actually, more surprised if there is anybody in the car than not.

I think what probably happened is the migrant worker who reported the car missing has now got it in his head from reading all the newspaper reports that there was somebody in that car. It took him three days to report it, which doesn`t make any sense if somebody really was in the car who matches -- even if it didn`t match the description, you`d call if you saw two people driving into the lake -- the canal like that. So, I`ll actually be more surprised if somebody is in the car than if they`re not.

CASAREZ: Meg Strickler, international law attorney, joining us out of Atlanta, here`s where I`m coming from. A conviction of manslaughter means you`ve killed somebody. You have that capability. If you drove into that canal with a little boy, you`re going to kill him.

MEG STRICKLER, INTERNATIONAL LAW ATTORNEY: I`m going to disagree with my law school classmate. We went to school together. I`m going to say that there`s probably going to be bodies in there. We have evidence of anger tendencies. We have evidence of alcohol issues. And I do believe we have some talk of drug issues.

There must have been something that made him just flip his top. He grabs this kid, he`s saying bye-bye, and I do think he drove into the canal and to commit suicide. That`s what it sounds like and it`s just an absolutely horrible story. My heart, like everyone else, goes out to Tabitha.

CASAREZ: All right. Everybody, we wanted to let you know, this dive is taking place. We are waiting for information on the retrieval of this car. If, in fact, Juliani may be in it.

To Brian Russell -- Dr. Brian Russell, forensic psychologist, joining us tonight out of Kansas City, Missouri. How does one get through moments of time like this?

BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC SCIENTIST, PhD: Well, that kind of -- that question is a good question and it kind of puts me between a rock and a hard place, because it`s great that Tabitha`s on with us tonight. She gives us a lot of rich information about the story, but given the news that I think is coming in the next few minutes, I think the best thing for her is to get off the cameras, surround herself with her support system. Because, I agree with the last guest, that I think we`re going to have some disappointing news here.

CASAREZ: All right. We have breaking news right now out of California. These are live pictures. There are cars that are being brought up from this canal right now as we are watching. This is a live operation. This is a crime scene operation taking place right now in California. The suspect, Jose Rodriguez, the last person seen with little Juliani Cardenas, is possibly in one of these vehicles.

They have to pull up three cars, we understand, because they were so intertwined. You can see right there -- a vehicle being pulled up out of 50 feet of water. These dive teams have risked their lives to go into this canal that has suction that can be extremely dangerous. And as you see in California, nightfall has taken hold. It is difficult to see the color of the car. I want to go out to Ellie Jostad, "Nancy Grace" producer. Remind us of the vehicle we believe Jose Rodriguez was driving.

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, he was driving a silver Toyota Corolla. It had distinctive rims. It had low-profile tires and it had large aluminum rims on this car. Now, one of the things they mentioned about how murky this water is -- the divers can`t even see the color of the car until they`re right up next to it. So very difficult conditions they`re working with here.

CASAREZ: And as we told you, the Sheriff had told us at the beginning of the show, that they had to pull up three different cars because they were so intertwined -- and as you saw, one was just pulled up. I couldn`t quite catch the color because of the darkness there in California, but now it looks like that a tow truck of type may be taking that vehicle.

I want to go to Pat Brown, criminal profiler, joining us tonight out of Washington, D.C., -- your take on what we are watching live, Pat?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Jean, I also don`t think it`s going to be a happy ending. I think what happened, is Tabitha ran into a man with borderline personality disorder. That kind of person has a huge chip on their shoulder and a big, huge pit that never can be filled. So he may be friendly, may look like he wants to have a relationship and kids, but when you try and do that with him, he always finds something`s going wrong and thinks he`s being disrespected and thinks he`s not getting enough attention and thinks he`s being wronged.

He lost his job recently, he`s lost his relationship with his girlfriend, he thinks he`s lost his chance to parent those two children. He feels like a big loser. This kind of man, when that happens, often wants to get even. He thinks Tabitha is going t get the two kids and she`s going to be happy and he`s going to get nothing and he`s going to suffer, so he wants to even the score, she gets one kid, he gets one kid and they both suffer equally. And that`s really, really sad.

CASAREZ: And, once again, everybody, these are live pictures coming to us out of California right now. A dive operation has just pulled up at least one vehicle. We have seen being taken over. This operation continues with divers and massive equipment to get these vehicles up and out of 50 feet of water. To Bill Majeski, former NYPD detective joining us tonight from New York.

You know, my first thought is that if this is a suicide/homicide there will never be a prosecution because both are deceased, but there could only be one person in this vehicle. It could have been a situation -- to just end the life of the little boy, Jose Rodriguez could still be alive. We are watching potential evidence that could come into a courtroom.

MAJESKI: Yes. As you mentioned, it is a live crime scene, but as I mentioned before, I think the police have done a pretty thorough investigation up to this point in time and their primary focus seems to be on this vehicle, itself. So they probably know a lot more about what is possibly in the vehicle. You know, again, hopefully the child is not there, but if both bodies are there it`s going to be, you know, a sad day for the entire family.

If the child is not in the vehicle and Jose is not in the vehicle then the investigation goes live again and all that information that they`ve gathered up to this point in time -- The mother did mention something about, you know, relatives in Mexico and, again, he must have said something to somebody in those days leading up to his abduction of the child.

CASAREZ: Bill, I want to interrupt you for just a second, because we`ve seen a white vehicle pull up to the scene here. I`m wondering in your experience, what do you think it may be? A type of crime lab? A law enforcement command post vehicle? What are your thoughts?

MAJESKI: Well, you know, clearly there are technicians on the scene in anticipation of finding something in the vehicle. And if there is nothing -- if there are no bodies in the vehicle then it`s still a crime scene because there`s going to be a lot of forensic evidence in there or perhaps other clues that may lead to further along the investigation. But they`re going to be approaching it in a very, you know, cautious manner and very careful manner as not to destroy any potential evidence that may exist there.

CASAREZ: And you`re looking at live pictures. This is a very active scene. We saw them pull up one vehicle. It doesn`t appear as though they`re pulling up another one at this point, but have pulled in this white trailer to forensically or investigative-wise look at something.

To Dr. Radha Mikkilineni, joining us -- doctor of internal medicine. If bodies would be in that vehicle, how preserved or not preserved would they be in the last week?

RADHA MIKKILINENI, MD: Those bodies have been submerged in water, if they are there, for approximately ten days or so. The water`s colder so they`re going to be a little more preserved than if this had occurred on land. That being said, they were submerged in water, so externally the skin is going to be very -- very wrinkled and bloated and there is going to be some separation at the nail beds and so forth. So there are going to be changes that are specific to decomposition that occurs under water.

CASAREZ: All right. This is a very critical point in time, everyone. The Sheriff of Stanislaus County has joined his team right now, as they appear to be looking at the vehicle that has -- is that the vehicle right there? Pat Brown, criminal profiler, do you believe that is the vehicle, right there, that investigators are surrounding?

BROWN: Well, you know, if it`s the same color as it`s supposed to be, that`s what they`re focused on and wanted to get to most of all. So, I would guess so.

CASAREZ: To me that looks like a silver vehicle. Pat, what do you think?

BROWN: I`m with you there.

CASAREZ: All right. And we know that is a silver vehicle.

Want to go out to Brian Russell, forensic psychologist. It`s believed Jose Rodriguez was on drugs, possibly methamphetamines. What does that do to a mind to do an act like this? Because we know his car is being retrieved from that canal right now.

RUSSELL: Well, that`s a great question. It certainly doesn`t make somebody commit kidnapping, or murder, or murder/suicide, but what it might do is be indicative of the fact this is a person capable of that. Nobody snaps, Jean, and there are always signs in this.

We`re already looking back. We can see this was a chaotic, violent drug abusing guy who -- I`m a child custody expert. Any time you have somebody who feels a parental connection to a child is being lost, you cannot discount the possibility that that person will become violent -- either directly just towards the kid or towards the kid and themselves.

CASAREZ: We do have breaking news out of California. You are looking at live pictures right now of a dive that has just culminated in what we believe is the retrieval, 50 feet deep, of the vehicle of Jose Rodriguez, the last known person to be with that beautiful little boy, Juliani Cardenas. I want to go out to Bill Majeski, former NYPD detective, who has participated in many dives in his career as a detective.

When there are so many vehicles in the water, as we know there have been, they have taken out 12 cars in the last week, how mangled will this car be? Will the windows be intact? What I`m really trying to say, Bill, is will bodies still be in the car? Or will they have gotten out?

MAJESKI: Well, you know, it`s conceivable, since the car is only there a few days, that it went down smoothly and did not break apart. The current down there is not swift enough to start breaking through glass. In all probability, if the windows were closed when the car went down, the windows are still closed as they brought it up.

CASAREZ: And we want to go out to Tabitha Cardenas who is the mother of Juliani, who is exclusively with us tonight. We want you to know that our heart is with you. And what do you want to tell us tonight?

CARDENAS: I just, I`m praying my son`s not in the car and that Jose`s not in the car and that they`re still out there and there`s, you know, there`s still a chance my son I going to come home.

CASAREZ: That`s right. That`s right. There is. Thank you, Tabitha, very much, for joining us.

Tonight, let us stop to remember Army Specialist E-4, Dustin Yancey -- 22-years-old, from Goose Creek, South Carolina. Killed in Iraq. Awarded the Bronze Star and the Purple Heart. He is buried at Arlington National Cemetery. He loved music, playing, and teaching guitar, star wars movies and Monty Python. He dreamed of a trip to Japan. He leaves behind his parents Tim and Anita, his brothers Timothy and Robert. His sisters Kelly and Kimberly. Dustin Yancey, an American hero.

Thank you to all of our guests, to you at home for being with us tonight. We want to wish a happy birthday to a little California fan of the show, Xavier is celebrating his 7th birthday. You may remember he`s the little boy our viewers helped get a life-saving kidney transplant. Here he is last summer at make-a-wish foundation`s Disney World trip. The brave donor who gave Xavier the gift of life, a little boy. He`s a hero, too. Happy birthday, Xavier. See you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. We will keep you updated on this breaking news out of California during our next hour. Good, night, everybody.

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