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Nancy Grace

Celis Parents Take Lie Detector Test

Aired May 03, 2012 - 20:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Tucson. A parent`s worst nightmare, Mommy and Daddy tuck 6-year-old Isabel into bed, 8:00 AM she`s gone. She usually sleeps with her two brothers, but not that night. After a third search at the home, police move on to a landfill, then back to the home to seize fabric and pillows from a family car.

An FBI shrink in the home to analyze it as cops look over the floorplan. A white male in his 20s caught standing over the bed of three little girls, assaulting one of them, just miles from Isa`s home.

Isa`s parents yet to appear at the search command center to help volunteers, and a stunning reveal from Tucson police who says they parents have, quote, "no sense of urgency."

Bombshell tonight. In an extremely controlled interview, Mommy and Daddy sit on national TV, fielding questions, but no questions about what happened that night, whether they have taken polygraphs, are they fully cooperating with police, Nada, Mommy and Daddy insisting police wasting time on them.

In the last hours, Mom, Dad, the brothers back in the home with heavy police escort to re-create the crime. Cops spotted taking mystery items out of the home. And in another bombshell, we learn Mommy and Daddy both take polygraphs but will not reveal whether they passed. We also uncover a secret security camera at the home, trained on the pathway to Isabel`s window. But why wasn`t it working that night?

Tonight, where is 6-year-old Isabel?


BECKY CELIS, ISABEL`S MOTHER: Focus would be taken off of Isabel by us being in front of the cameras.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isabel was last seen in this home by her parents.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have been interviewed extensively.

SERGIO CELIS, ISABEL`S FATHER: We are cooperating to the fullest extent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Both parents have taken polygraph tests.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Escorted separately by investigators, Sergio and Becky Celis walked detectives through their home, reenacting what took place in the hours before their daughter disappeared.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Becky, do you have a comment?

BECKY CELIS: We want her back, so whatever it takes to get her back, we will do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not that we are saying the family`s responsible, but we`re also not saying the family is completely clear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you want to say about whether you had anything to do with your daughter`s disappearance?

SERGIO CELIS: To whoever did this, please, look at her. Look at her. She`s beautiful! She doesn`t deserve this.

BECKY CELIS: ... bring Isabel home, where she belongs, her favorite place in the world.

SERGIO CELIS: We just need everyone out there, everyone just to keep praying for her. Keep your eyes out.


GRACE: That was video from NBC`s "Today."

And tonight, Long Beach, Mass., a 2-year-old toddler girl goes to the beach with Mommy and 4-year-old sister. Mommy runs after a bouncing ball, comes back to find 2-year-old Caleigh gone. Tonight, Mommy with us, taking your calls. What happened to 2-year-old Caleigh?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we were told is a tragic accident.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A 2-and-a-half-year-old girl disappeared while she was at the beach with her family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two minutes that it took her mother to cross that wall and look for that bounty (ph) ball.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had to walk 60 -- about 60 yards to the stairs to get up, and then back to where the ball was.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No one sees her go into the water.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think she`s in the water.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have scoured those waters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a huge chance that Caleigh was abducted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turned to look for the ball in the little grassy area in front of some of the houses that are there, turned around again and Caleigh was gone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No one sees her being snatched.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police said that they have interviewed the 4- year-old sister.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She did after a while mention a man on the beach that took her sister.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She may very well be out there somewhere in somebody`s custody.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it`s really a mega-mystery.


GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. In an extremely controlled interview, Mom and Dad in an interview on national TV fielding questions, but not questions about what happened the night their daughter disappeared, whether they have taken polygraphs, whether they are fully cooperating with police, Mom and Daddy still insisting police wasting time on them.

And in the last hours, Mom, Dad and the 14-year-old brother back in the home with heavy police escort to re-create the night Isabel goes missing.

We are taking your calls. Straight out to Paul Birmingham, KNST. Paul, I`m going to play portions of the interview they conducted. But why no questions about what happened specifically that night, who put the child to bed, why didn`t the mom check on her the following morning, why wasn`t she wearing her PJs, was her window left open? A million questions! Why? Why didn`t we get answers to those?

PAUL BIRMINGHAM, KNST (via telephone): Those are all outstanding questions. These are things that we`ve asked of police themselves. Now we have an opportunity, or at least one reporter had an opportunity to ask these questions, but yet they weren`t asked.

These were questions about, Describe Isabel for you. These are things that we would expect -- I don`t want to call them softballs, but they were not particularly probing questions. As to why those were not asked, I couldn`t tell you.

GRACE: OK, why did you say "I don`t want to call them softballs, but"...

BIRMINGHAM: Well, these are...

GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) we don`t do that here, all right? We call it like it is! We did not get answers to serious questions, Paul Birmingham. You`re really putting perfume on the pig. And I appreciate that because the parents are not suspects. I don`t want to heap pain onto them. But I don`t understand why they refuse to answer simple questions.

Jean Casarez, no pointed questions about what happened that night, no questions about, Have you taken a poly, have you given your DNA, nothing. It`s my understanding, Jean Casarez, they have taken polygraphs, both of them, but no one will reveal whether they passed them.

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": You`re right. The police have confirmed that they took polygraph tests, but no word on how they did at all.

You know, Nancy, about that interview, what`s interesting is the reporter, who is in Arizona for the "Today" show, did a sitdown interview. That was part of the piece. And I thought, Well, that`s the interview. And then they came on and were interviewed by Anne Curry after that.

So maybe the "Today" show didn`t think they were going to get that second interview, so they did that taped piece with the reporter at the scene. And is there a back story to the interview that was done this morning on the "Today" show? We don`t know, meaning...


CASAREZ: ... certain questions you don`t ask, certain questions we won`t answer.

GRACE: Oh, you mean, going into it, they said, Look, we want to come on and plead for Isabel`s return, but we`re not going to go into what happened that night.

CASAREZ: Yes. Yes.


CASAREZ: And normally, you don`t agree to that because you need to be free to ask anything. If they don`t want to respond, they don`t want to respond, but you`ve got to be able to ask the question.

GRACE: Well, what I don`t understand, Jean, is why they would not want to respond. If it`s an issue of saying, Police don`t want us to, police don`t want us to divulge that fact, we don`t want the kidnapper to know X, Y, and Z, there`s a reason for this -- but to -- let`s look at the interview. Roll it, Liz.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you want to say about questions about whether you had anything to do with your daughter`s disappearance?

SERGIO CELIS: Gosh, I wish I knew where to begin. We are so frustrated to try to understand why this is happening, why this had to happen, why Isabel had to be targeted. We just don`t understand that. And to whomever did this, please, look at her. Look at her. She`s beautiful! She doesn`t deserve this. She deserves to be home. She deserves to be home in her room playing with her brothers and just loving life the way she does. This is -- there`s so many things that are just so frustrating and so difficult to deal with.

BECKY CELIS: We just want her home. We just want her home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you want to tell us about how intense that scrutiny is now? Has it lessened? Is it still as intense? And how do you feel about it?

BECKY CELIS: It`s necessary to do, and if it`s anything close to getting Isa back home safely, then whatever it takes. It`s nothing we can`t handle. We want her back, so whatever it takes to get her back, we will do.


GRACE: You were just seeing footage from NBC`s "Today." Back to you, Paul Birmingham. Did I miss a portion of this? Were they ever asked what happened the night Isa went missing?

BIRMINGHAM: No. Basically, the question that was asked there, I thought the answer was nonresponsive. Now, I`m not a lawyer or I`m not somebody who would be able to necessarily say...

GRACE: What question are you talking about, Paul? What question?

BIRMINGHAM: The question as to whether or not they had anything to do with her disappearance.

GRACE: Yes, well, I get it. Yes, you`re right. I get it. And he did dodge it. He didn`t say, Hell, no, I didn`t have anything to do with my daughter`s disappearance! Or no, nothing. Instead, he talks about his frustration.

But did I miss a question somewhere -- and I`ve reviewed the transcript, Paul. Were they ever asked what happened the night Isa went missing?

BIRMINGHAM: Not specifically. As close as you could get to that was, What do you remember about the last time you saw her? That was basically the question. That was the second question, yes.

GRACE: OK, let`s get that cued up, Liz. In the meantime, I`m going out to Greg Overzat, standing by there at the Celis home.

Greg, I`ve been thinking a lot about this fence. It`s now been called fortified. That fence is apparently as tall as you. You`re what, 5-7, 5- 8?


GRACE: OK, show me the fortification around the home, please.

OVERZAT: Well, Nancy, I`m standing here in the back alley directly behind the Celises` family home. Now, if you`ll look over this way, you can see in the back there, there are those two small windows, and then right below it, there`s a larger window. That larger window is the window that was open the night that Isabel vanished. And she was sleeping in that room.

Now, if you`ll follow me back here, there is this meter box directly against this wall. Now, if I stand up on this meter box, you can see that it would be quite simple for someone to get over this wall directly to Isabel`s bedroom window and eventually work their way back around. Now, over to...

GRACE: Whoa! Wait, wait, wait, wait!

OVERZAT: ... my left a little bit further over...

GRACE: Wait! Stop! Stop!


GRACE: Get back up on the meter box. OK, I`m not asking you...

OVERZAT: I`m here...

GRACE: ... to jump the wall, all right? I don`t want to have to come arrest you myself. But let me see you sling your foot up. You said it`s so easy. How easy is it?

OVERZAT: Well, considering I am about 5-8, if I were...

GRACE: Yes, I heard that!

OVERZAT: ... to swing my leg up, it could get pretty high. I mean...

GRACE: Well, you said it was so easy.


OVERZAT: ... high. So if someone was -- but if someone was a little bit taller than I was, they might have, you know, longer legs and be able to reach...

GRACE: OK, let me get...

OVERZAT: ... and catapult themselves...

GRACE: ... this straight.

OVERZAT: ... over this wall.

GRACE: Let me get this straight. Now, so if...


GRACE: ... somebody decides to break into a house that`s got a 5- foot-plus wall fortification around it, and if they`re taller than you, and if they get on top of that meter box, then they can get in. OK, go ahead, Greg.

OVERZAT: Well, Nancy, this is not the only point of entry that I have noticed. Now, real quickly, before I get to the next point, there is this security camera directly above the back porch of the home. Now, if you`ll notice, it`s actually facing towards the sky. We believe that had it actually been fully functioning -- we heard reportedly that it was not functioning -- and police have looked at it and there was nothing on it because it is allegedly broken -- it would be pointing down into this back yard.

So the question of, you know, when that camera was broken, the last time it was operable, we still don`t know. But it`s interesting that that is there and pointing toward the sky.

Now, if you`ll come with me a little bit further down this wall, you can actually see that there is this huge trash can. There`s really no other way to describe it. It`s a very large black trash can. It seems like a lot of the homes on the street have it. And if someone were to get up on that, that would be a very easy way to get...

GRACE: Stop!

OVERZAT: ... over this wall.

GRACE: Are there wheels on the bottom of that trash can?

OVERZAT: No, not from what I can see.

GRACE: Well, go look at it more closely because most of those trash cans have wheels on them. And I mean, who`s going to climb on top of something that`s got wheels, that`s going to scoot out from under them?

OVERZAT: Right. Well, Nancy, I see that they are all apparently stationary. There`s one a little bit further down the street that`s on its side, and there`s nothing on the bottom that would make it mobile.

GRACE: OK, good to know. Go ahead.

OVERZAT: And Nancy, on this -- you can see, actually, this wall gradually gets a little bit shorter as it goes down the side. And around the other side, it`s wooden.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isabel`s window is right on the other side of this wall.

SERGIO CELIS: Person or persons who have Isabel, tell us your demands.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A possible entry point into Isabel`s bedroom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A window was open and a screen was off.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I discovered that she was missing and I looked over the wall, it was wide open.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is plausible that someone entered that house, a stranger.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who does report hearing some voices, and we`re looking into that.

BECKY CELIS: We don`t want the focus to be taken off Isabel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of breaking developments.

SERGIO CELIS: She is so full of life and she is just so wonderful. And we do miss her so much. And her brothers miss her so much. We just need everyone out there, everyone just to keep praying for her.


GRACE: That was video from NBC`s "Today" show.

Back to Greg Overzat, standing there outside the Celis home. Greg, now, to me, it`s a lot more plausible that someone would jump over the fence, that fortified wall, as it got shorter, as opposed to standing on top of a plastic herby-curby (ph) to jump over. Let me see you go down to the wall where it`s shorter.

OVERZAT: Right. Well, Nancy, I can show you from this side. I`m going to get back on this meter box and show you that right down this way, you can see that there is this wooden fence. From what it looks like, it`s some sort of driveway of sorts. It looks like two wooden doors that would open outward, and a car could have pulled through this back yard. Now, we see...

GRACE: OK, question...

OVERZAT: ... there`s an aluminum trash can...

GRACE: Why are you telling me...


GRACE: Why are you telling me that that`s shorter? That doesn`t look shorter.

OVERZAT: Well, Nancy, based on where the street ends, the way that the wall graduates, it`s the same height as the lowest part of this fortified wall.

GRACE: OK, Greg, I`m going to rephrase myself.


GRACE: Rephrase my question. I want to see you, if you can get to it, standing beside the shortest area of that fortified wall. I want to see how tall it is.

OVERZAT: OK. Well...


GRACE: ... walk down there...

OVERZAT: ... down there. But I just want to point out that -- OK, well, I will just point out that on the other side of that wooden wall, though, you can see that there are a bunch of rocks that have not been disturbed in a very long time. So it`s unlikely that whoever came over this wall went through that side.

Now, I`m going to walk over this way, and you`re going to see that it does get a little bit shorter and closer to my height as I get toward the end. Right over here is where the wooden fence starts.

GRACE: OK, let me ask you...

OVERZAT: It is about exactly my height right here.

GRACE: ... one real question. One quick question. Is the wooden fence the same height as where you are right now?

OVERZAT: Yes, it is.

GRACE: So that`s what, 5-8, 5-9?

OVERZAT: It`s about 5-8 or 5-9, yes.

GRACE: All right, and how would you get over the wooden fence? Is there an object there you could can stand up on?

OVERZAT: From my observation, there is not. It`s all just dirt and rocks (INAUDIBLE) moved in a very long time.



BECKY CELIS: We don`t want the focus to be taken off Isabel by us being in front of the cameras.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it is beneficial.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family didn`t step out.

SERGIO CELIS: Why Isabel had to be targeted, we just don`t understand that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Despite countless tips and a recanvas of the area.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Little Isabel, 6 years old and abducted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Long days of uncertainty, stress and worrying.

SERGIO CELIS: Please, please keep your eyes open. Keep your eyes open.

BECKY CELIS: And continue praying, please.


GRACE: That was Isabel`s parents talking on NBC`s "Today" show.

Straight out to the lines. Tim in South Dakota. Hi, Tim. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my question is, yes, I remember you were talking last night about a relative that had been convicted of distribution of drugs?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know, Nancy, if you remember, but there was a case in 2008, Cole Puffenberger (ph). Remember that case?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His grandpa owed the Mexican cartel $4 million for drugs, and they allegedly kidnapped him. I wonder if anyone has looked into this.

GRACE: You know, that is an excellent question. Unleash the lawyers, Jennifer Smetters, Chicago, Mickey Sherman, Stamford, Connecticut, Marla Chicotsky, Miami.

First of all, to you, Mickey. He is right about that case. But frankly, between you and me, all this stealing children for drug payments is mostly in the movies.

MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It makes a great TV movie, but that doesn`t seem to be founded (ph) here.

GRACE: I mean, get real with me just for a moment, Marla. How often has that really happened?

MARLA CHICOTSKY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think it happens as often as you stated. This is not the movie. This is a family that lives in Tucson. There`s no evidence or anything linking them to any sort of drug Mexican cartel. So for this leap of (ph) stretch, very large stretch, I don`t think it`s plausible in this case that this is (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: Well, Jennifer Smetters in Chicago, Tim in South Dakota is right. There is a cousin that has lived in the home, a male cousin, with a distribution of marijuana conviction, among other convictions.

JENNIFER SMETTERS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And Nancy, interestingly enough, in that "Today" show interview, the father actually interjected and volunteered that they`re ready to make payment. They have payment. And I found that to be really interesting and it raised a flag to me.

GRACE: Out to Marc Klaas, president, founder, Klaas Kids Foundation. Marc, I`ve fielded this question a lot, the theory that someone, this is a kidnap for drug money.

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, you know, first to answer the last lady`s statement, I believe that they were asked if they were ready to pay ransom, and he said that they had the money, they`re ready to pay whoever they need to pay.

I think we have to back off of these parents a little bit here, Nancy. We all wanted a glimpse behind the crime scene tape. That`s what we received this morning when they appeared on the "Today" show. I would hope that this would be the first of many appearances that they do.



SERGIO CELIS, FATHER OF MISSING 6-YEAR-OLD ISABEL: We are looking -- we are looking for you, Isa.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I remember when my dog was barking.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And what time were you woken up initially?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: About 6:30, I remember hearing the male voices at that time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Plea for the safe return of our baby girl Isabel. And these efforts of finding Isabel.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The mother did not see Isabel before she went to work.


GRACE: We are live in taking your calls, in the last-hours, mommy and daddy speak in a controlled interview with the "Today" show. They did not answer any questions regarding what happened the night Isabel went missing, whether they have taken a poly or whether they are cooperating. We learned on our own they have in fact both taken a poly. The results are not revealed.

We are taking your calls. First to you, Woody Tripp, former police commander, polygraph expert.

Weigh in, Woody.

WOODY TRIPP, FORMER POLICE COMMANDER, POLYGRAPH EXPERT (via phone): Well, Nancy, it`s rather interesting. I certainly understand the police`s point of not revealing the polygraph. I do find it odd, though, that in this case the parents aren`t revealing any information. Normally, you know, they will exclaim the virtues of them taking one and having passed it. So I don`t know if they`re being directed not to say something by someone or in fact, you know, there`s some other dire consequences --

GRACE: Hey, Woody, what do you make of this fortified wall around their home?

TRIPP: That`s really interesting. But again, Nancy, in today`s time, you know, there`s so many homes now that have that. There`s so many precautions which also adds to the fact, though this girl has wound up missing, out of this place, with a fortified wall.

GRACE: Well, a lot of people are suggesting that why would an intruder pick this home to take this girl when you had to get over a wall? There`s a security camera up there, of course, we know now that it was not working. That there are cars parked in their driveway, there were obviously people home.

But let me remind everybody about the Elizabeth Smart case. That home appeared to be extremely safe, somebody broke in. Same thing happened with Danielle Van Dam. Somebody broke into the home. Both time parents in the home while the child was taken by an intruder.

Let`s take a look again at the interview given in the last hours with very, very controlled surroundings.

Joining me, Patti Wood, body language expert Atlanta, and Susan Constantine, body language expert, Orlando.

Ladies, take a look with me at the interview.


ANN CURRY, "TODAY" SHOW HOST: What do you remember about the last time you saw her, Sergio?

S. CELIS: Just that sweet little face. Just that sweet little face. She had just gotten her hair done. It was just before she went to bed. She had a baseball game early in the next morning and Becky braided her hair up and so she was going to be ready for her early morning. And I was asking her if she was hungry, and she just had that little sleepy look as she was walking by, and she said oh, no, daddy, I`m tired. And she`s just walking by.

And she is just so full of life and she is just so wonderful and we do miss her so much, and her brothers miss her so much. Julian even said we love her so much and we just need everyone out there, everyone, just to keep praying for her, keep your eyes out.


GRACE: That`s Sergio and Becky Celis speaking on NBC`s "Today" show.

First to you, Susan Constantine, weigh in.

SUSAN CONSTANTINE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: OK. What I noticed was he - - when he was asked that question, you`ll see his eyes kind of narrow. It`s kind of like a lens on a camera, it kind of tightens in. So he`s actually recalling what it looked like that night before.

So I what I really saw with him is that, even though he was shaking his head during this point in time, going back and forth, that`s just really what he`s doing is processing. You can hear also to his voice cracking in the background, so there`s a strong emotion there, that he`s kind of holding back, trying to control it but it`s still being heard through his voice -- vocal cords.

GRACE: OK, Patti Wood. Let`s hear your analysis.

PATTI WOOD, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Yes. And the other part of it is that the emotion was coming through and also the repetition. It`s very common when parents are truly grieving, to repeat statements, to repeat the name. And he does this, and the mother does this as well, throughout the interview, showing they`re authentically grieving. They don`t show guilt.

GRACE: Everyone, we are bringing you two renowned body language experts who at this time seem to be believing what the parents are saying.

Would you agree with that, Patti Wood?

WOOD: Yes. They -- they also are showing a united front. Something I see very seldom is that their body expressions often matches, their facial expressions, their posture, also you see them repeat the statements that each -- they each make. Again showing a united front.

GRACE: OK. What does that mean, Susan Constantine, the fact that they are repeating each other`s statements?

CONSTANTINE: Well, people that say things over and over again and they repeat it long enough, that they will tend to -- that other people will believe them. That`s part of it. That`s why -- it`s called repeated assertion. So they just want to repeat it over and over again so that you get it.

GRACE: OK. So I`m hearing from you that you`re not necessarily buying what they`re saying.

CONSTANTINE: Not necessarily because sometimes people will repeat things over and over again. One of the 12 verbal deceptors is called repeated assertion. It`s like -- you know, Clinton, when he kept saying and kept repeating it over, and let me tell you one more time and again and again and again, so that if I repeat it more and more, over and over again, you know, you might believe me.

GRACE: Good point.

Joining me right now, psychoanalyst and author of "Dealbreakers", Bethany Marshall.

Bethany, I want to hear your analysis, and right now the only thing that`s hanging me up is what took them so long to come out and speak on behalf of their child. Also they won`t reveal whether they passed a polygraph. And number two, they were not asking any questions of substance, like, what happened the night she went missing. Things like that.

That does not mean these parents are guilty at all. But what do you make of their interview, Bethany?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": I had a completely different impression from the body language experts. As a psychoanalyst, I pay attention to how I feel when people are talking.

I felt quite bored with this interview, and when I asked why do I feel bored, the answer came because they`re not telling me anything, and they are not in touch with their feelings, therefore they have not moved me to feel. Then I asked myself, what is their reluctance to be transparent? Are they confusing questions asking with accusation which some people do? Is there a tertiary or third figure in their lives that they are protecting, someone who was perhaps in the home or someone who had access to this little girl?

GRACE: I want to go back to Greg Overzat. We`ll go back to the parents` interview in just a moment.

Greg, the police have been spotted in the last hours as well, going into the home, taking the father, with heavy, heavy security. I think there were four investigators with him. The mother separately and the 14- year-old brother into the home.

What did you observe?

GREG OVERZAT, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, yesterday, as you just said, the father went to the house first, he was flanked by four detectives, there were three men and one female. Now this female detective, while they were inside with Sergio he was with him for about an hour inside the house. A couple of times the female detective came out through the garage, went into the truck -- I`m sorry, the trunk of her vehicle, and she pulled out what looked like a southwestern designed blanket.

It could have been a beach towel, we couldn`t really tell. She went into the house with it. A few minutes later, she emerged again with that blanket or towel and it looked like there was something inside of it as she put right back into the car.

GRACE: Ellie Jostad, on the story from the very beginning, why were the family members taken, all except the little brother, separately into the home?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Right. Well, police say that they wanted to go back through that house one last time with each family member separately. So they could walk through the house, family member could point out to detectives certain areas in the house of interest, certain items in the house in interest, and they just wanted one last opportunity to get a re-enactment of what happened in those hours before Isabel went missing and when she was discovered missing.

GRACE: Ellie, we know they`ve taken polygraphs. We`ve managed to find that much out. Why aren`t we getting the result?

JOSTAD: Right. Police continue to say and, by the way, this is the first time today that they`ve even said, yes, parents have been taken polygraphs, before they were cagey about it. But they still will not discuss the results of any polygraph.


GRACE: The father has revealed to us his belief, a mystery man took his little girl off that beach when mommy went to retrieve a bouncy ball.

Let`s see the diagram you made for me, Liz. I didn`t understand why it took the mom so long to get the ball until I saw this. And dad and uncle explained, mom had to walk to the left, all the way to the end of that bridge, down the walkway, down the metal walkway, up to that retainer wall, and over it to get the bridge, even though the children were playing there just by the retainer wall.

But to get over it, to get the ball, she had to go that far, when she returns, Caleigh is gone. And joining me tonight, mom and dad, taking your calls.

Very quickly to you, Jean Casarez, catch me up.

JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, it all stems from the beach right there. And I believe it was a tennis ball, a small little ball and that bounces and so the mother, who will tell her story in just a minute, went to go get that ball, the children were on the beach, and then the child was just gone. But now there is a story from one of the children of a suspect description.

GRACE: And Joe Gomez, KTRH, there are also stories questioning the appearance of a mystery man, why?

JOE GOMEZ, REPORTER, KTRH RADIO: I mean, it`s really, Nancy, you know, it`s very bizarre that this 4-year-old Elizabeth would just, you know, bring up the fact that there was a mean man that apparently tried to kidnap Caleigh. And the fact that she told her father that this man was apparently a smoker, it had black shorts and was fat -- but you know, nobody else on the beach can really collaborate that sort of evidence, Nancy.

GRACE: Robyn Walensky with "The Blaze," what do you know?

ROBYN WALENSKY, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: You know, what strikes me about this Nancy, that`s odd. Has anyone asked this child, did the mystery man, the mean man have a knife or a gun? Did he threaten her, perhaps if this is a true story, maybe the man said, don`t tell or I`ll kill you.

GRACE: And we`ve also got to remember in the Elizabeth Smart case, it was months and months and months before the little sister came forward and realize what she had seen. And she was right.

Joining me right now and taking your calls, special guest, Allison Hammond, this is Caleigh`s mom, Anthony Harrison, this is Caleigh`s dad.

To both of you, thank you for being with us.

The tip line, 978-546-1212.

Allison Hammond, first of all, you hold the key to a lot of questions. Tell us what happened that day.

ALLISON HAMMOND, MOTHER OF MISSING 2-YEAR-OLD TOT GIRL, CALEIGH: I thought I`d take the kids to the beach, it was a really nice day. I took my parents dog with us, we`re moving. And we walked the length of the beach, the kids were playing in the water, running behind, running in front, with all that seaweeds. We got to the end of the whole beach and the dog got over the bridge, over the creek, with the tennis ball, so when I got to the tennis ball, I threw it back. And I threw terribly.

It landed up over by the cottages so I got the kids situated, they were playing in the sand by the rocks, and I could see them the whole way when I was walking over to the stairway. And I watched them as I held on to railing before I started looking for the ball. And they were fine.

And, you know, just one of the times I looked back and just -- Caleigh was just gone. There wasn`t a sound. My daughter Lizzie, when I came back, I mean, I checked on them repeatedly, but that one last time, you know, you just get that feeling, something`s not quite right, so I went over and I had to put my hands on the railing. I looked down and Lizzie had her arms outstretch and she said Caleigh is gone. She didn`t say anything more than that.

After that, you know, I immediately -- I ran down those stairs, went right into the water because going up in the beach that`s the first you do, go into that war. She was wearing bright pink that day, the water was crystal clear, if she had gone in, I feel like I would have seen her right away. But I just don`t know. From there, you know, I searched the beach, I walked out back with the cottages, with Lizzie by my hand. And we just don`t know.

GRACE: OK. Question, Miss Hammond. You stated that as you were walking along that, I`ll just call it a boardwalk or a bridge, that you kept looking under the rail and looking at the girls and they were OK.


GRACE: All right. How long between the last time you saw Caleigh OK and the time you looked over again and she was gone? How much time had passed?

HAMMOND: Moments, it didn`t seem like that long, but I knew it was longer than the last time I had checked. It`s just something -- it didn`t feel like any time at all but --

GRACE: Well, at -- it`s 60 yards, so if you`re checking, I mean it couldn`t have been over one minute, I mean, to walk 60 yards wouldn`t even take you a full minute, I don`t think?


GRACE: So did you immediately look on the -- on the other side of the bridge, on the other side of the walkway, to see where she went?

HAMMOND: I did. Yes, I did. When you`re in the water from there, you have a pretty good peripheral of the beach side so I could see down by -- on the other side of the boardwalk, I could see -- had a clear view there.

GRACE: How far could you see? How far could you see?

HAMMOND: I don`t know the exact distance, it does turn towards the parking lot and you can`t see around that corner, it does take a sharp turn. Do you know how many feet it is?

ANTHONY HARRISON, FATHER OF MISSING 2-YEAR-OLD TOT GIRL, CALEIGH: Probably a couple, a couple of hundreds yards. Hundred and 50 yards.

GRACE: So in the space of that moment, someone would have had to grab Caleigh and get about 150 yards?

HARRISON: Well, there could be a car there as well, which could have backed up.


HARRISON: She could have been around the corner. Around the corner of which --

GRACE: Got it. I got it, now I understand, I understand what you`re saying now about that corner. I got it.

So they wouldn`t have had to go 150 yards with her, they`d only had to go to a car parked along the beach, is that what you`re saying, sir?


GRACE: OK, I want to go to you, Anthony Harrison, what is your response to people arguing and suggesting that you`ve made up your other daughter`s description of this guy?

HARRISON: That`s ludicrous.

GRACE: I mean you don`t have a dog in the fight, you weren`t there, there`s no reason that you would lie about it?

HARRISON: Exactly. And I wouldn`t put my daughter under this kind of scrutiny either. This came from her, this came from her hot, and I believe her. And I don`t care if nobody else believes her, I believe her.

GRACE: Tell me again what she said, how did she describe the guy?

HARRISON: At first, it was the mean guy. And then she got into detail about black shorts, he was smoking a cigarette. He had facial hair.

GRACE: Heavy set man, brownish hair, kind of bald on top, hair on both sides. Now I don`t recall you giving me all those details the last time we spoke.

HARRISON: Well, I -- I wasn`t really ready to give you all those details to be honest with you.

GRACE: Why? Why? A man takes your daughter and you`re not ready to give me the details? I don`t understand that.

HARRISON: Well, we were hoping to get a little bit more information from Lizzie with a child psychologist before I even said anything about this.

GRACE: What difference would it make? That would not affect getting the information from Lizzie. You putting out the description would not affect -- she`s not watching this show. So I hope she`s not up at that time. But long story short, that would not have affected her speaking with the child psychologist.

Why did you not give me those details the first time you spoke with me? I`m sure there`s an explanation.

HARRISON: I don`t know. I mean, I just -- I don`t know. I wanted to get out that she saw a man and that`s, you know, what I told you. That`s all I can tell you.


GRACE: With me, both parents of missing baby Caleigh.

Anthony and Allison, I don`t want to be hard on you, I just don`t understand this inconsistency.

Let me go to you, Allison. What has Lizzie told you about the man on the beach?

HAMMOND: Nothing. She -- if I approach her with any questions, she simply shuts down and says, I just don`t want to talk about it. She has not acted the same since that day, if you ask her questions about pictures she`s drawn, she becomes expressionless. She just changes -- it`s not my same Lizzie.

GRACE: To Jean Casarez, other people saw the child on the beach. The mom is not lying about Caleigh being on the beach.

CASAREZ: Right. There are -- there are many things that are documented in all this. That is right. And normally law enforcement many times does not originally want the description of the alleged perpetrator out there, that it can hurt the investigation. But this is not forthcoming by law enforcement.

GRACE: OK. Joe Gomez, KTRH, final thought.

GOMEZ: You know, Nancy, there`s a lot of things in this case that simply don`t add up. I mean, if she was kidnapped by somebody, why didn`t anybody else on the beach see it, like the couple that was walking down the street, or the man playing basketball? Why now does this 4-year-old suddenly tell her father that this is what actually happened. It`s very confusing, Nancy.

GRACE: Mr. Harrison is standing by his story as is Miss Hammond. Tip line 978-546-1212. Look at this child.

Let`s stop and remember Army 1st Lieutenant Nick Dewhirst, 25, Onalaska, Wisconsin. Killed Afghanistan. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Combat Infantryman Badge. Army Achievement. West Point grad. National Honor Society. From a family of World War II vets. Loves scuba, sky diving, base jumping. Leaves behind parents, Randy and Susan. Brothers, Chad and Chase.

Nick Dewhirst, American hero.

Thanks to our guests and especially to you. And happy 8th birthday to beautiful London. Daughter of my superstar, Shayzon. She`s an avid reader, she`s reading on the sixth grade level. Loves fashion, obviously. Dancing, roller skating. Teaching assistant.

Happy birthday, little London.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.