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Nancy Grace
Jessica Ridgeway Accused Killer in Court
Aired October 25, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Westminster, Colorado. 8:30 AM, this little girl, 10-year-old Jessica, walks three blocks en route to school. Mommy watches as she walks away. Jessica never seen again.
Then the awful discovery, the girl`s dismembered body found just a few miles from home. In the last 48 hours, a 17-year-old college student, a crime scene tech wannabe who dreamed of being a mortician, emerges as the prime suspect in the 10-year-old`s murder.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, murder suspect Austin Sigg in court, staring down Jessica`s family. Tonight, we learn details inside the mind of the killer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Austin Sigg is in our custody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This alleged murderer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Austin Sigg.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Austin Sigg appeared in a Colorado courtroom today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officially charged by next Tuesday.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... charge him as an adult.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Watching the proceedings today, Sigg`s mother and Jessica Ridgeway`s mom and another family member.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said a while (ph) ago (ph) burn him. I meant literally light him on fire. Send him to hell in a blaze of glory.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators also found a wooden cross at the scene.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Overwhelming evidence. Did we hear correctly saying there`s (INAUDIBLE) there`s DNA matching the suspect?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t talk about that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They set up sheeting to cover the view where they were bringing out evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He often wore black pants, chains and zippers all over them. He was goth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just from the way he acted, the way he dressed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just wanted to find some way to be able to hang out with us because it would kind of creep us out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, murder suspect Austin Sigg in court staring down Jessica Ridgeway`s family. Tonight, we learn details, disturbing details from inside the mind of an alleged killer. This as we learn, at 15, he is treated for a severe pornography addiction. And that is just the tip of the iceberg.
First of all, straight out to Rita Cosby, investigative journalist. What are we learning in the last hours? He was in court just a couple of hours ago.
RITA COSBY, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: He was in court. It was his first experience. He`s going to have another appearance on Tuesday, where he`ll be formally charged. This was a juvenile court, Nancy. Remember, he`s still now technically listed as a juvenile. Prosecutors hope to change that.
He showed up. He was wearing a green jumpsuit, light green jumpsuit, had a...
GRACE: Look! Look, Rita...
COSBY: ... goatee and a Mohawk...
GRACE: Rita, stop. Look. Look at the video of him in -- wearing the cross!
COSBY: Yes.
GRACE: Is that the cross found at the scene of the dismembered body of 10-year-old Jessica? Go ahead, Rita.
COSBY: Yes, that`s what they believe it is. And in fact, Nancy, the other details that came out today -- that cross -- I thought about that right away. Now a number of friends, including his ex-girlfriend, and a lot of people say he would wear a cross just like that.
Authorities also say they have overwhelming DNA evidence in addition to his confession linking him to this gruesome crime.
GRACE: DNA evidence -- of course, that`s what we need in this case. But another thing that you said really struck me, his girlfriend. What`s that all about?
COSBY: Yes. He had a girlfriend. Now, the girlfriend said that he was normal and nice, but she also is now coming forward with what I think is really interesting information. She said that she saw him recently. He was in a park. Remember, all these incidents took place near a park or in a park, the jogger at a park, they believe Jessica near the park when she was walking to school.
She says she was walking by and she saw him stare at her in a very strange way. He was with two friends. What`s significant about that is other people have said that, too. Now we`re hearing from all these people in the neighborhood who`ve said he was a weird man, would stare at them very strangely and were very creeped out by him to the point where one girl told her mother when she saw him walking by -- this was after Jessica`s disappearance, before his arrest -- said, That`s the guy I believe took Jessica. He always looks at me in a very strange way.
GRACE: So already, people from just knowing him, said, I think that`s the guy that took Jessica.
With me right now and taking your calls is a very special guest joining us tonight, is Jacqueline Miller, Sigg`s classmate at Arapahoe Community College. And also with us, Donna Moss, Jessica Ridgeway`s great- grandmother.
I want to go first to the great-grandmother of little Jessica, Ms. Moss. Ms. Moss, thank you for being with us.
DONNA MOSS, JESSICA`S GREAT-GRANDMOTHER (via telephone): Thank you for having me.
GRACE: Ms. Moss, I saw where you stated to the effect that it`s very, very hard for you to consider forgiving him. And I`ve got to tell you something, Ms. Moss. I don`t want to incite a riot, but I have two children that are about to turn 5 years old. And if somebody touched a hair on their head, I would find a way to rip their throat out!
I`d like to know your reaction to him being in court today.
MOSS: Well, I`m relieved and I`m very grateful that he was captured. It`s no less than a miracle to get him there. The Arvada and Westminster Police Department and the FBI have been working 24 hours a day, seven days a week since this happened, and I really appreciate them. I`m grateful to God that they caught him before he victimized someone else, and I`m sure that he would have.
GRACE: Ms. Moss, I understand that in court today, in the last hours, Sigg in court -- and that he turned around and blatantly stared at Jessica`s family. Why?
MOSS: I couldn`t understand why he would do something like that. I wasn`t there. But if I had been there -- I couldn`t understand why he would do that other than to hope that he might intimidate them in some way.
GRACE: Yes, well, I don`t think that is going to work. Nobody is going to stop until they have justice for Jessica. If you could tell me, how is Jessica`s mother doing?
MOSS: I talked to her night before last, and she`s really amazing. She is a strong lady. She`s incredibly strong. But of course, it`s very hard and difficult for everyone involved, the whole family, to tolerate the constant thought of this man being out there. It was high, high, high pressure.
I was in Colorado for a week and the people there were beautiful and wonderful, but oh, it was very difficult.
GRACE: What is your reaction now that you are learning some of the things that this young man has said?
Let me go to Matt Zarrell. We`re going really inside the mind of an alleged killer. And I guess it`s easy for someone to kill a 10-year-old little schoolgirl, the little girl that he picked on this time. But his words that we are learning, words attributed to Sigg, a 17-year-old college student, are chilling. Chilling!
What do we know, Matt?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, Nancy. During a reported six-hour interview with the suspect, according to KDVR, he allegedly confessed that he quote, "claimed the murder did not bring him the joy that he thought it would, so he took the crime further."
Now, we know there are reports that he did dismember Jessica Ridgeway, so maybe he`s referring to taking the crime further as dismembering her.
GRACE: Matt Zarrell, we learned so much about his personality, things that he said, that he was fascinated with the serial killer Ted Bundy, that he actually had to go into treatment for a pornography addiction at age 15.
And some of the words he said about not caring, how he didn`t care about others -- what are the words that are now being attributed to him?
ZARRELL: Well, Nancy, I know that there was one classmate who did an anti-social personality disorder paper while she was in class with Sigg. And part of the paper involved the serial killer Ted Bundy as a case study. Now, during this, the classmate explained how Bundy had no empathy for his victims, and during this, the suspect, Sigg, was chuckling to himself out loud during this report.
GRACE: What more do we know about this alleged pornography addiction?
ZARRELL: Well, Nancy, there are reports that he was addicted to pornography and needed treatment at the age of 15. Now, the reason I think this is interesting also is that we know that there was another jogger incident in 2010 that they`re working on connecting to the jogger attack we know of in May. If they are connected and he is a suspect in both, that would make him 15 years old for the first jogger attack.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Laura in Ohio. Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, hon. I basically got more of a comment. I just heard this story and it made me sick to my stomach. I have a 19-year- old daughter, a 9-year-old daughter and two granddaughters. I just think that this boy, being 17, I think it`s premeditated. And I think that he should be sent to prison for life, I mean, because these judges -- it really gets me upset that because they commit a horrendous crime like this and then, boom, they`re out in, like, three to five years.
This was horrible. That baby girl is gone, and it just makes me sick to my stomach. And I don`t -- I mean, I just -- I read about this every day. I watch you every night, a fan on your Facebook page. And it`s, like, all the time you hear this every day. But it`s just everything is getting really lax with, you know, like, their sentences and...
GRACE: Well, right now, we are waiting to find out, Lauren in Ohio, whether he`s going to be treated as an adult.
To Nia Bender, manager, TTN Denver. Nia, what do we know about the transfer position of taking him out of juvenile court, where he is allowed to play soccer and frisbee and go to the library and get on the Internet and watch TV? Is he going to be transferred into adult court, Nia?
NIA BENDER, OPERATIONS MANAGER, TNN DENVER (via telephone): They are talking about transferring him to a county jail. As to when that will happen, right now, we don`t know. But yes, they are talking about moving him to a county jail.
GRACE: When you hear all of this talk -- out to Donna Moss. This is Jessica`s great-grandmother. How does it strike you that he is in a juvenile facility where he`s allowed to play frisbee, play soccer, go to the library, have visitors, watch TV. What is your response, Ms. Moss?
MOSS: My response is this. Jessica won`t ever have a chance to do those things again. And I`m really, really angry that he`s given the privilege of doing anything other than sitting in a cell.
I hope he sits in a cell for the rest of his lifetime and rots because I understand that in Colorado, even if he is bound over as an adult, that he could only be given life sentence without parole, meaning he would do a maximum of 40 years, meaning he would get out in at least by the time he`s 57. And I want that man to never walk one more day in the company of humans.
He`s not a human. He is an animal. And I don`t want him to be in a juvenile facility where he can rub himself and grime (ph) up on the other kids that just happen to be there or he might victimize while he`s there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Austin Sigg appeared in a Colorado courtroom...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) charge him as an adult.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was kind of sick, what happened to Jessica.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was extremely shocked. I could never, like, ever imagine him doing, like, something like this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All the circumstances that we anticipate charging as an adult.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He -- I don`t know. He`s just different.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just kind of kept to himself, doesn`t really -- he doesn`t really talk much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The teenager who police say told his mom that he killed 10-year-old Jessica Ridgeway.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t understand how it would have to feel to be the mother of a monster like him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If perhaps he`s convicted of a class 1 felony, he could face sentencing of life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live tonight in Westminster, Colorado, trying to make sense of the murder and dismemberment of a 10-year-old little schoolgirl. And behind bars tonight in a juvenile hall is a 17-year-old college student, a student that we know had dreams of being a mortician.
That`s the tip of the iceberg. We are learning that he had a pornography addiction so severe, he had to have treatment at just age 15, that he kept a collection of animals that he would kill and commit various acts on their bodies. This is a classic, textbook example of a killer, if not a serial killer.
We are taking your calls. Out to you. Rita Cosby, what more are we learning about Sigg?
COSBY: Well, when you talk about skinning rats, apparently, some of this he was testing in school. Remember, he was in these mortician classes. But people are saying he was fascinated with death, testing how living beings would be affected by decomposition, dirt on them.
Also, this knife collection that you talk about, Nancy, too -- he had switchblades. He even played knife games with friends and also was fascinated by dark clothing, this dark behavior.
The other thing I want to point out, Nancy, to this pornography that you talk about at the age 15 -- we were talking about this the other day -- remember, he dropped out of high school and also, vocational school around that time. We don`t know why. Was he push out? Was there some crime? We don`t know. He`s a juvenile. There may be something tied to this pornography at that same time.
GRACE: Joining me right now is Jacqueline Miller. This is Sigg`s classmate at Arapahoe Community College. Ms. Miller, thank you for being with us.
JACQUELINE MILLER, COLLEGE CLASSMATE OF ACCUSED: Thank you for having me.
GRACE: Jacqueline, how did you know Sigg? And what was he like in class, particularly when you did a paper on Ted Bundy?
MILLER: I can tell you that I didn`t speak to him, like, outside or before class. We only spoke in class discussion. But last week, we were discussing our papers, and I wrote mine about antisocial personality disorder and I used Ted Bundy to help define what this kind of character is. And he was extremely intrigued by it. His eyes were nailed to me. Hindsight, 20/20, it`s kind of scary.
GRACE: Isn`t it true that during certain of the comments you recited that Ted Bundy had made, he would -- Sigg would sit back and chuckle?
MILLER: He did because when I said -- I wrote about anti-social, I said -- and I used Ted Bundy to help define -- he almost -- he -- well, he did chuckle. And I just -- at first, I thought he was maybe making fun of me playfully because he engaged the class and he was highly intelligent. He was very charming.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back. In the last hours, in court, the alleged killer of a 10-year-old little schoolgirl, Jessica, Jessica Ridgeway, on her way to school. She only had to walk three blocks. Never made it. According to police, she encountered a local college student, this man, Austin Reed Sigg.
Look at the cross he`s wearing. It is of special significance, as a similar cross was found at one of the crime scenes.
We are taking your calls. As we`re going to air we`re learning more and more and more about Sigg, about his past, about what happened in court today.
I understand, Nia Bender, that he formally withdrew his waiver of rights to speak to police. In other words, he`s not going to be speaking to authorities anymore, even if it`s about finding the rest of this little girl`s body and body parts.
BENDER: You know, there is mixed -- there are mixed reports on that, Nancy because I had heard that he had withdrawn it. But at the same time, the police have been telling everybody that he has been incredibly cooperative with them.
GRACE: Well, unleash the lawyers, Kelly Saindon, Renee Rockwell, Kirby Clements. What it simply means is, Renee, he may have been cooperative up until now. But now the public defender is involved, and they withdrew. They revoked their waiver of rights. That means we`re not talking anymore. That happened today in court.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: A little bit too late, wouldn`t you say, Nancy, after he`s given...
GRACE: Well, I disagree with you.
ROCKWELL: I know, but...
GRACE: If he had never spoken to police, we would never have been able to put this little girl`s body back together again. So I don`t know what you`re talking about!
ROCKWELL: Well, that`s not...
GRACE: Too late!
ROCKWELL: ... what defense attorneys are for.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Austin Sigg is in our custody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This alleged murderer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Austin Sigg.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Austin Sigg appeared in a Colorado courtroom today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officially charged by next Tuesday.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... charge him as an adult.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Watching the proceedings today, Sigg`s mother and Jessica Ridgeway`s mom and another family member.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said a while (ph) ago (ph) burn him. I meant literally light him on fire. Send him to hell in a blaze of glory.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators also found a wooden cross at the scene.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Overwhelming evidence. Did we hear correctly saying there`s (INAUDIBLE) there`s DNA matching the suspect?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t talk about that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They set up sheeting to cover the view where they were bringing out evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He often wore black pants, chains and zippers all over them. He was goth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just from the way he acted, the way he dressed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just wanted to find some way to be able to hang out with us because it would kind of creep us out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live in Westminster, Colorado. There you see the home of Sigg where he lived with his mother and little brother. Austin Reed Sigg, 17-year-old college student, studying mortuary science. A CSI, crime scene investigative sleuth. We`re learning more and more about who Sigg is.
Out to special guest joining us tonight in addition to Jessica`s great grandmother. Jacqueline Miller. This is Sigg`s classmate at Arapahoe Community College.
Jacqueline, you said that he was actually charming. What do you mean by that?
JACQUELINE MILLER, TEEN MURDER SUSPECT`S CLASSMATE IN COLLEGE: I mean like he was -- he was so intelligent. When we discussed things in class, the teacher gave an opportunity to talk about things in more depth. And when he did, we all closed our books. We had our pencils down because we were so intrigued. He was fascinating.
GRACE: What would he talk about?
MILLER: Very charming so -- I`m sorry?
GRACE: What would he talk about that was so intriguing?
MILLER: Specifically I cannot recall. Like, for -- you know, because we talk a lot about the brain and we talk a lot about how things worked. And he had just this knowledge about it that when he talk about it, we were just stopped and intrigued by what he was saying. He was very, very smart, and he was very charming and engaging.
GRACE: What was your reaction when you learned he had been taken into custody in the murder and the dismemberment of a 10-year-old school girl?
MILLER: As a classmate and as a mother of a 10-year-old daughter, I was mortified. I was surprised. I think yesterday I was still processing, still today processing the whole thing. It`s very scary to think that anywhere in the world he was sitting beside me in my classroom.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What was the class that you two were taking together?
MILLER: Psychology.
GRACE: Psychology. And do you recall ever seeing him wearing that -- it looked like a hand carved cross necklace?
MILLER: Yes. He wore that necklace to class every day. Yes.
GRACE: I`m thinking about the cross that was found at the crime scene where Jessica was dismembered and his reaction to you in particular and your paper on Ted Bundy, one of the most prolific serial killers of our times.
What if anything did he say about Bundy?
MILLER: It was when I was talking about how, you know, Ted Bundy didn`t have any empathy. That he went to the grave withholding things so that he could be the last one with the -- he knew exactly what he was doing. Anti-social personality disorder to the core, they have no empathy for others. It is about self-gratification, mainly possession. Possession of one`s soul.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You know it`s interesting --
MILLER: He studied mortuary science. He was -- he was really intrigued by things that are not normal.
GRACE: We are learning so much, including, Matt Zarrell, what can you tell me about these animals that he kept their corpses?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Well, according to classmates, Sigg had done a project exploring how bodies decompose and he used these skinned rats and placed them in several different environments including freezing temperatures, covered them in dirt, and left them out in the open. In fact, Nancy, reports showed that he took second place at the school science fair for this project.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Kelly Saindon, joining us, Chicago. Rene Rockwell, defense attorney, Kirby Clements, defense attorney, Atlanta.
Kirby Clements, he skinned rats, he tortured them, and kept their bodies. A textbook example of a killer most likely a serial killer.
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, Nancy, I can`t disagree with you on that point. I will say that if he in fact skinned the rats and tortured them, that is textbook serial killer stuff. But there is no evidence that he actually tortured the rats. I don`t think anyone witnessed that so I don`t want to -- I don`t want to attribute torturing at this point.
GRACE: You know what, Kirby, I`m going to give you that one. I`m just going to let the fact that he skinned the rats and then kept their corpses speak for itself. All right?
All right, Kelly Saindon, the jury of course will never hear about that, will they?
KELLY SAINDON, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: No. They`re not going to hear about it. They might hear what the project is and they might hear that he was fascinated with decomposing bodies and that he had this obsession with serial killers, mortuary science, to put that together, but no, they`re not going to hear about torturing animals, unfortunately.
GRACE: What I think that her family, Jessica`s family, had to endure being in court with him today.
With us is Jessica`s great grandmother, Donna Moss.
Donna, as you hear all of this unfold about him, what is your reaction? And is the district attorney prepared to try him as an adult?
MOSS: Well, I think that he definitely needs to be tried as an adult. I mean, obviously this man is a very intelligent person, according to what they`re saying. He is 17 years old which is by only who knows how many days, an adult (INAUDIBLE). And I just look at it and it`s like, this man is doing things that is far, far, far beyond child play. I think that he needs to face the music that he has played. I look at the situation and I feel sorry for his mother.
GRACE: Oh, yes, yes, yes. Miss Moss, we are hearing so much -- we are hearing so much about Sigg. I want to hear something redeeming. Something wonderful. I want to hear about Jessica. What was she like?
MOSS: She was beautiful and bright. A typical 10-year-old daughter, granddaughter and great granddaughter. She was -- her mother said she was always the happy one in the house. And I think that`s probably true. I never saw her when she wasn`t happy. But I did not see her often enough. That`s for sure. She liked monster high dolls and the typical things kids like. She was given the option on whether to walk to school with her classmates or to ride the bus.
And she chose to walk to school. And had she chosen to ride the bus, maybe she would have been safer but maybe not.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We are back live in Colorado and taking your calls. In the last hours, this man, Austin Reed Sigg, a 17-year-old local college student, at Arapahoe Community College, in court connected to the murder and dismemberment of a 10-year-old school girl.
We are taking your calls. With me right now, the founder of the Joyful Child Foundation. The mother of 5-year-old Samantha Runnion. Samantha abducted and murdered.
Erin, thank you so much for being with us.
ERIN RUNNION, DAUGHTER SAMANTHA RUNNION WAS ABDUCTED AND MURDERED AT AGE 5: Thank you for having me, Nancy.
GRACE: Erin, I will never forget when Samantha was abducted. And how you spoke out. What is your take on this scenario?
RUNNION: It is just heartbreaking. Absolutely heartbreaking. On October 5th when Jessica was taken, my heart was ripped out. And you just relive it every time. But my heart just goes out to her family. They`re being very, very strong throughout this.
GRACE: Are you surprised that the alleged perpetrator is just 17?
RUNNION: I wish I were more surprised. But, you know, statistically, sex offenders say that about 60 percent of them began their sort of power base sexual deviance as teenagers. So we really shouldn`t be that surprised. But you know, I wish that we knew what his juvenile record was because there is no doubt that something came before this.
GRACE: With me right now is Pastor Rick Long. This is Jessica`s pastor, the founder of Grace Church.
Could you explain to me, Pastor, how the community is reacting to this?
PASTOR RICK LONG, JESSICA RIDGEWAY`S PASTOR, FOUNDER OF GRACE CHURCH: Well, Nancy, first of all, you know, on behalf of the Ridgeway family, I know they would want me to say, first of all, thank you for tireless efforts from everyone. Not only nationally but locally to bring justice for Jessica and that`s what we all hope for.
The community has gone through such a rollercoaster of emotions, you know, just as a pastor been here almost three decades. I can tell you that we`ve seen the whole gamut of emotions from everybody rallying around each other to look for Jessica, to locate Jessica. To the complete fear and distress that was caused when she was discovered in the -- in the horrifying manner in which she was.
And now to a point where everyone is, and I`m saying this on behalf of the family trying to now again prepare the Ridgeways with a lot more support from our community because they`re going to have to relive this over and over as details continue to come out about Austin and about all the things that have transpired.
And I would just ask the country to continue to pray and continue to lift them up because they`re going to need that support and they`re going to need that time. And this isn`t something that you get over. None of us can even imagine other than parents who have been through this. What it`s like. But I can just say on behalf of our community, I am proud of one thing. That we have not worried about who got the credit, what police station, what church, you know, everybody is bound to, you know, come together and unified for the sake of Jessica.
GRACE: With me, psychologist Caryn Stark.
Caryn, I was struck by his outright statement that murdering her did not bring him all the joy that he thought it would. So he went further. And I am assuming that means the dismemberment of the body. It could mean more. I think at this hour we still don`t have all of Jessica`s body parts. I think he was hoarding them.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: There`s no doubt, Nancy, that he went further and that he didn`t receive enough joy. And I love explaining this. Because it`s so horrible. The way that he turned out to be. And I also want to mention, Ted Bundy is exactly the same as he`s describe as being. Charming, brilliant, he is noted for that, for enticing people. But the reason he`s saying he did not get any joy is people who are murderers, they need more adrenaline than us. So we could be on a rollercoaster and get arise. They can`t. They need more.
So what he`s saying is, he expected that he would have a tremendous rush. That this would do him a world of good. And that he didn`t get it. And so he went further to try and get that adrenaline rush that he was looking for.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OLDS: He didn`t have many friends other than us that I knew of. Because he never -- like, whenever I saw him on his scooter in the neighborhood, he was always by himself. And he never talked about other friends.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Notice the cross that he was wearing in that video from YouTube? An exact cross like that found at the scene of 10-year-old Jessica`s dismembered body.
To former deputy medical examiner forensic pathologist Dr. Howard Oliver.
Dr. Oliver, since her body was in fact dismembered, will we ever know if he raped her, if he molested this child?
HOWARD OLIVER, FMR. DEPUTY MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Yes, we should. There should be DNA evidence in her body fluids. So it should be fairly easy to determine that fact.
GRACE: To Rita Cosby, CSI text we`re now getting reports say this crime scene could extend three more houses back. But did he hide body parts in other people`s crawl spaces and houses?
RITA COSBY, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST, AUTHOR OF "QUIET HERO": Well, that`s what`s interesting. Authorities are saying specifically three houses behind his that they have blocked it off with yellow tape. Also they are saying that they have not found, Nancy, the secondary crime scene where he dismembered her. So there`s a lot more to come in this case.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: More on 10-year-old Jessica Ridgeway`s investigation in 60 seconds.
American hero, Army Staff Sgt. Rusty Christian, 24, Greenville, Tennessee. Second tour. Bronze Star. Purple Heart. Two Army Commendation medals. Buried Arlington. Parents Donna, Michael, stepfather Jim, brother Aaron, widow Amber, children Taylor and Gavin.
Rusty Christian, American hero.
Happy birthday tonight to Florida fan Brenda Lampkin. Isn`t she beautiful?
And we`ve got to say happy birthday to our very own, Renee Rockwell.
Please stay with us, everyone. We`ll be back in 60 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We are live in Colorado and taking your calls. Scott in Kansas. Hi, Scott. What`s your question?
SCOTT, CALLER FROM KANSAS: Hey, Nancy. Do they know if this guy was a pedophile or anything about his criminal history at all?
GRACE: Erin Runnion, he`s a juvenile. So we don`t know that much yet. But I`m sure authorities know.
RUNNION: Yes. We do know that he was addicted to pornography. We don`t know whether or not that was child pornography or adult pornography. But it does raise the concern that he would sexually assault his victim as well.
GRACE: Well, Rita Cosby, we know that he abruptly left school at age 15. You don`t just drop out of school for no reason. Wasn`t that also when he had to seek treatment for pornography? He was so addicted at just 15 he had to get treatment?
COSBY: It`s exactly the same time. And you have to wonder what else are we going to find out from his parents, from friends, from family members. There seems to be a lot of sort of warning signs here. The other thing, too, Nancy, he took off after that jogger. Remember the jogger incident? Then they went off to the U.S. Virgin Islands with the family. And right after Jessica disappeared, he wasn`t in class for a few days. So there`s some interesting behavior patterns that someone near him had to know what was going on or at least had some (INAUDIBLE) that this man was very troubled.
GRACE: Donna in Florida. Hi, Donna. What`s your question?
DONNA, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hey, Nancy, it`s a pleasure to get to talk to you. First --
GRACE: Likewise.
DONNA: I`d like to give my condolences to Jessica`s family. But my question is, how did the mother find out about the son? Did he tell her or did he -- she (INAUDIBLE) or what happened there?
GRACE: Well, to Nia Bender, joining us from TTN Denver.
Nia, it`s my understanding that he told his mom what he had done. Right?
NIA BENDER, OPERATIONS MANAGER, TTN DENVER: That`s correct. And then she picked up the phone and reportedly handed it to him. She called the police and handed him the phone.
GRACE: Everyone, "What Would You Do?" That`s the question tonight at 9:00 Eastern when ABC`s "Hidden Camera" show comes to HLN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN QUINONES, ABC NEWS: It isn`t long before Kim Hughes turns the corner.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh. Oh, my god.
QUINONES: Our actor begs Kim not to say anything and Kim agrees.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you not say anything? Don`t say anything.
QUINONES: Enter Vince, our manager.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Excuse me. Excuse me. Hold on a second. Why is everyone scattering? What happened here?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I`ve already looked over in that area.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no. I`m talking about the vase. Did someone knock it down?
QUINONES: Kim says nothing but this picture is worth a thousand words.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s coming up next. Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night. 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night friend.
END
