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Nancy Grace
Jodi Arias Testimony Recap
Aired March 15, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you are stressed out and people are yelling at you, you`re like a computer that freezes, right?
JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: Typically, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have a knife in your hand when you shot him?
ARIAS: No, I did not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So that means that if you didn`t have the knife in your hand, you needed to go get it from somewhere, right?
ARIAS: I guess. I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no! There`s no guessing here now. So as Mr. Alexander is getting blasted and going down, he`s got a knife in his hand, right?
ARIAS: That was all in the same moment when he was lunging at me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You get the gun. You go into the bathroom again. You then turn around and you point the gun. You shoot him. He goes down, still pummeling (ph) at you and saying (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kill you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) all in 62 seconds. That`s what you`re telling us?
ARIAS: He didn`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kill you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) until after I got away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the fog rolls in, it does not improve your memory, does it.
ARIAS: I don`t know. I wouldn`t say it does.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This gun that you say that you saw him load, even though you saw him load it, you believed on June 4th of 2008 was unloaded, right?
ARIAS: I didn`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have a problem with remembering what you just said a couple days ago?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... "still felt threatened after having shot Mr. Alexander, why did you use a knife instead of just shooting again?"
ARIAS: I know that I dropped the gun when he hit me, and I don`t know where the gun went. When we fell, it was no longer in my hands. And I don`t really remember picking up the knife. I just remember feeling threatened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: This week we saw an angry prosecutor raising his voice at Arias, pointing at her, insisting that the murder of Travis Alexander could not have gone down the way she describes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so as you shot Mr. Alexander, you by necessity then have to go look for the knife, don`t you!
ARIAS: I don`t know the answer to that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you didn`t have the knife in your hand when you shot him, did you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) argumentative.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sustained.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Didn`t you have the knife in your hand when you shot him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) same question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled.
ARIAS: No, I did not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So that means that if you didn`t have the knife in your hand, you needed to go get it from somewhere, right?
ARIAS: I guess. I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no! There`s no guessing here now. Uh-uh. If you didn`t have it in your hand and you just shot him, and you rolled away, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) argumentative.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sustained.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got out. You were able to get away, right? That`s what you told us, right?
ARIAS: That`s right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You needed to go get that knife at that point, correct?
ARIAS: No, it`s possible Travis grabbed the knife first.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. But you`ve told us that the knife wasn`t there. Do you remember telling us that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Mischaracterizes her testimony.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled.
ARIAS: No, I remember testifying that it wasn`t in my hand when the gun went off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, so as Mr. Alexander`s coming towards you, he now has a knife in his hand. That`s what you`re telling us.
ARIAS: No, I didn`t say that, either.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So as Mr. Alexander is getting blasted and going down, he`s got the knife in his hand, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, argumentative.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled.
ARIAS: That was all in the same moment when he was lunging at me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Doesn`t have the knife in his hand, does he.
ARIAS: Not in that particular moment, no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, I`m asking you, at that particular time, he didn`t have the knife in his hands, right?
ARIAS: I just said no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he goes down, sort of next to you, right?
ARIAS: Yes. We both go tumbling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure, you both go down. You never told us that he had any knife there, did you?
ARIAS: No, I wasn`t asked.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, I see. So what you`re saying is now he has the knife with him, right? Now that`s what you`re saying, he`s got the knife.
ARIAS: I didn`t say that, either.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, which one is it, ma`am? Does he have the knife or he doesn`t have the knife? You were there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Argumentative. Asked and answered about three times now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sustained.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And in order to catch her, he used details. You know, it`s been said often that the devil is in the details. What I would say, that in this case, the devil`s there, all right, but he`s in the timecodes, the timestamps, because the prosecution, playing off the jury questions, had her go through her scenario of how the death went down all in just 62 seconds.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In this case, what we have to deal with, as we did the mathematics, 62 seconds. And what you`re telling us, under your scenario, is that in 62 seconds, you get body-slammed, you do whatever you do, but you get away. You run down the hallway. You go in the closet. You grab a gun. You back up. You shoot Mr. Alexander. After you shoot Mr. Alexander, the -- you pick up the camera, because you said it`s the only possibility, and he`s already down the hallway with his throat slit, right? That`s what you`re telling us happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) it`s argumentative, lack of foundation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled. You may answer.
ARIAS: I didn`t say that was the only possibility, with the camera. So that wasn`t correct, the way you asked it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not asking...
ARIAS: I don`t know that his throat is slit in that picture, either.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not asking you about the possibility. I`m asking you if you`re telling us that within 62 seconds, he -- you dropped the camera because that`s what precipitates these things, and we have this where there`s some action, which is exhibit number 161 -- that in the 62 seconds between that photograph and exhibit 162, you are body-slammed, you get away. You go down the hallway. You go in the closet. You get the gun. You go into the bathroom again. You then turn around and you point the gun, you shoot him. He goes down. He`s still pawing (ph) at you and saying (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kill you.
And then after you`re able to get away, you go get the knife, and he ends up at the end of the hallway, all in 62 seconds. That`s what you`re telling us?
ARIAS: No, that`s not what I`m saying. And he didn`t say (EXPLETIVE DELETED) until I got away and...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pardon?
ARIAS: He didn`t say (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kill you until after I got away. He said he said it before I broke away, but he said it right as I broke away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In order to even describe the death in its most rudimentary way, it takes more than 62 seconds to just tell the story of how Travis Alexander was in the shower posing for sexy shower photos at Jodi Arias`s request, that she dropped the camera, the digital camera that he loved, his new camera, that he became infuriated, even though he had never had this reaction in the past when she had blown out his car and slashed his tires and called his girlfriends and hacked into his e-mail and hacked into his bank accounts.
But this time, when she dropped the digital camera, he became enraged and went after her, yelling at her, threatening her, that she ran -- that she ran into his closet, slammed the door, climbed on a shelf that can only hold 40 pounds, got on top of another shelf, grabbed a gun that only she knew about that was full of live ammunition and cocked.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it wasn`t loaded, ma`am -- and you told us before that Mr. Alexander told you it wasn`t loaded, right?
ARIAS: He did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You told us that, right?
ARIAS: He told me both, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. You told that to the jury, right?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And Mr. Alexander said it`s not loaded, right?
ARIAS: He said it`s not loaded, and then one day he loaded it, so he said it was loaded.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, but you said -- you didn`t include this part about loading. You did say that he told you it was unloaded, right? You did tell me that, right?
ARIAS: Initially, he assured me it was not loaded.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. And so you go with these words of Mr. Alexander telling you that he believed it was unloaded, and then you also take your belief that you think it`s unloaded, based on what he told you, and you take this -- run into this closet to get that. What were you going to do with the gun, throw it at him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Mischaracterizes testimony and it`s argumentative.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sustained.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, what were you going to do with the gun if it`s unloaded, ma`am?
ARIAS: I testified that I pointed it at him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not asking you what you testified to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That he body-slammed her, that she shot the gun, pulled the trigger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You would agree that it requires you to put your finger on the trigger and pull it for it to fire, right?
ARIAS: That`s my understanding, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you were there, right?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so you fired the gun. You shot him in the head, and you killed him, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, your honor. Mischaracterizes (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right?
ARIAS: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: But even though that bullet ripped through part of Travis Alexander`s brain, he still continued to curse and yell at her. A gunshot wound that would have been fatal, he continued to pursue her, that she got up and ran, but instead of leaving, she ran back into the bathroom, where she proceeds to stab him 29 times and drag him back into the shower.
Just telling that story takes longer than 62 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: I must say that the jury questioning of Jodi Arias has been one of the most devastating cross-exams that I have ever seen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "You said you remember putting the knife in the dishwasher after killing Travis, but you also say you don`t remember anything after dropping the knife on the bathroom tile. Which is correct?"
ARIAS: Well, I was -- I know that he was trying to pin me down to a black-and-white answer, but I have a vague memory of putting a knife in the dishwasher. I`m just not sure if that`s the memory from June 4th or if I`m confusing that with a prior incident because I`ve done dishes in that house many times. And I have mentioned that I do have a vague memory of doing that. So it`s -- and did we use his knife to cut the rope, so it`s possible that that knife went back into the dishwasher.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is the risk you take when you put a client on the stand, especially in the handful of jurisdictions that allow jury questioning. They don`t mess around, all right? They get down to it and they ask the questions that you want to ask, that I want to ask.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "You are stating you believe you stabbed Travis based on logic. How do you explain the blood on your hands and clothes and the bloody palm print on the wall?"
ARIAS: Well -- I do know that we struggled that day. And I mean, based on logic, it would have been because of how we fought. I don`t know how things ended up where they ended up. I just know that we were fighting physically.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In response to jury questions, Martinez, the prosecutor, got Jodi Arias to admit that at the time she shot Travis Alexander -- now, remember, the medical examiner contends that the shooting was last, that all the stabs, the 29 slashings and stabbings were first, then the gunshot. But the prosecution got Arias to say that when she shot Travis Alexander, she did not have a knife with her, which makes her story even more implausible.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At some point, you do remember that you had the knife in your hand, correct?
ARIAS: I don`t remember that part.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember at some point indicating to this jury that you dropped the knife? Do you remember saying that?
ARIAS: I do remember that, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So if you dropped the knife, where did you drop it from, if not your hand?
ARIAS: Presumably, my hand. I just don`t remember gripping it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did I ask you whether or not you had gripped it?
ARIAS: That`s what I took it as.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, did I ask you whether or not you were gripping the knife, ma`am?
ARIAS: You didn`t use those words specifically.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. I asked you whether or not the knife was in your hand. Do you remember that?
ARIAS: I don`t remember you wording it that way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you drop the knife?
ARIAS: Yes, I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you tell that to the jury?
ARIAS: Yes, I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you tell them that you screamed, right?
ARIAS: Yes, I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So then the knife was in your hands, right?
ARIAS: Yes, it was.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And this issue about gripping has nothing to do with it, does it.
ARIAS: I would think it would.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think how strongly you were gripping it is important to this case?
ARIAS: I wasn`t talking about the strength of the grip, just that I...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I am. I`m asking you that just now. That was the question.
ARIAS: Will you repeat that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think that how strongly you were gripping it is important to this case?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Objection. Argumentative (INAUDIBLE) relevance.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled.
ARIAS: I wouldn`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you`re the one that brought this up about not gripping it. You seem to think that`s important. Why do you think that`s important?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Argumentative.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sustained.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did have the knife in your hand, right?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was after the shooting, according to you, right?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you previously had seen that knife in the bedroom, right?
ARIAS: I don`t recall. I think it was at one point, but I know it was definitely in the bathroom, but it may have gone to the bedroom, I`m not sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you did drop the knife, right?
ARIAS: Yes, I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And after dropping the knife, you took it with you, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) characterizes the testimony (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled.
ARIAS: Took it where?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know. I`m asking you. Where did you take it?
ARIAS: I have no idea.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t remember -- you said you dropped the knife, right?
ARIAS: Yes, I remember that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the jury asked the question about items, you indicated that you took certain items. Do you remember saying that?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you said the gun, right?
ARIAS: I remember the gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right? And a number of other items that you took, right?
ARIAS: Just -- the items I remember are...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled.
ARIAS: The items I remember are my luggage, of course, and I remember the rope and I remember the gun. I don`t remember having the knife at any point after I was a little more lucid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So what? As he was body-slamming her and beating her within an inch of her life, after he had been shot, she took the time after she shoots him to go run and find a butcher knife and come back and then stab him 29 times? That doesn`t even make sense! Her story is falling apart, as we knew it would, because it is a lie.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are body-slammed, you get away, you go down the hallway. You go in the closet, you get the gun. You go into the bathroom again. You then turn around and you point the gun. You shoot him. He goes down. He`s still pawing (ph) at you and saying (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kill you. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) And then after you`re able to get away, you go get the knife, and he ends up at the end of the hallway, all in 62 seconds. That`s what you`re telling us?
ARIAS: No, that`s not what I`m saying. And he didn`t say (EXPLETIVE DELETED) until I got away and...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pardon?
ARIAS: He didn`t say (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kill you until after I got away. (INAUDIBLE) said that before I broke away, but he said it right as I broke away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Quite often, we see Jodi Arias not answering a question directly. She elaborates. She skirts around it. She never really answers it. She tries to leave herself wiggle room. Why? For closing argument purposes, so she won`t have, in her own mind, really been trapped in an answer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: The fog or the confusion only begins when he starts screaming, or if there`s a fear that maybe there`s going to be tension or some kind of escalation of anger or violence. And then certain incidents, such as the physical pain, is crystallized in my mind.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: She thinks she wiggled out of it, not really giving the prosecution what they want. But what she doesn`t realize is that by avoiding or deflecting questions, direct questions by the jury or by the prosecution, she looks like she`s evading the truth. And if the truth were on her side, she would not have to evade it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: That more or less you`re condemned to hell.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For life (ph), right?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You really don`t follow the book of Mormon, when you told that to the jury -- you don`t really follow that, do you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Argumentative.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled.
ARIAS: Well, you`re talking about what time period?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I`m talking about your life, ma`am. This is what we`re talking about. Isn`t it true that you told the jury that this book sort of governs the way you style your life, right?
ARIAS: I didn`t say that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it isn`t -- doesn`t it govern your life? Isn`t that what we just talked about?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: She would look at the jury and tell them what happened, exactly what happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, were you crying when you were shooting him?
ARIAS: I don`t remember!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you crying when you were stabbing him?
ARIAS: I don`t remember!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about when you cut his throat, were you crying then?
ARIAS: I don`t know!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So take a look then. And you`re the one that did this, right?
ARIAS: Yes!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you`re the same individual that lied about all this, right?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So then take a look at it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: But she needs wiggle room. Why? Because she can`t tell the jury the truth, that she was angry and scorned.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Why did you confront Travis after seeing him with another woman through his back yard window if it was not due to jealousy?"
ARIAS: I felt that because he was making an effort -- this was also right after he had -- we had just slept together consensually, like, we went all the way, and he said, I love you, and all these things, so I felt like we were getting back together. And when I saw that, it seemed in contrast to what he had been telling me for the last month, month-and-a- half. So what -- my intention was to do was to go there and just find out what`s the...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) wasn`t jealous, why did she confront him.
ARIAS: I`m explaining why I went over there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You may continue.
ARIAS: So my intention of going over there was not to -- not out of jealousy, but it was because I wanted to know where I stood. Are we still trying this? Do you have a new girlfriend? If he had a girlfriend, that`s fine. I just wanted to know, was all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Furious that Travis Alexander was choosing another woman over her, and she murdered him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: You know, I really thought I had seen and heard it all after trying well over 100 felony cases, taking pleas on over 10,000 felony cases and giving birth to twins. But now it`s all been topped with transient global amnesia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With regard to transient amnesic syndromes -- that`s the next slide -- is that the title of the article that you relied upon?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And can you tell us what this article has to say?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Basically, it says that temporally circumscribed amnesia, which means time-limited amnesia, the amnesia from one period -- from the starting point to the end point, whatever that is, is associated with a specific and unusually emotionally charged event, such as a criminal offense.
Now, the interesting thing is that the data shows that the proportion of amnesia is proportional to the violence of the offense. And up to 30 percent of convicted homicide cases have amnesia claimed at trial.
And it`s been established that perpetrators of horrible crimes can also develop post-traumatic stress disorder for having acted as the source of the crime. For example, soldiers, our soldiers in Afghanistan, report post-traumatic stress disorder because they were involved in the killing of the enemy. Police officers, people that I`ve treated, who shoot a victim either accidentally or on purpose, deliberately in the line of duty, also can develop post-traumatic stress disorder.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is the defense, that Jodi Arias in just the few moments it took to slash and stab and shoot Travis Alexander to death -- in those few moments of her life, she has amnesia? She can`t remember anything? She`s in a, quote, "fog"?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "In the moments of stress or fog, how do you recall what happened in those moments if it affects your memory?"
ARIAS: I don`t recall clearly what happens in those moments, as far as details, every detail. I just -- sometimes I have a general sense of what`s going on and sometimes I don`t.
But as far as the fog goes, it`s more, again, just words that are being spoken or screamed or yelled, and that`s what processing that sort of thing. Physical things I can remember because I feel them physically. I can remember what I feel internally and emotionally, as well. But it`s more the words that are being spoken and their meanings. But I do remember what I feel, if that makes sense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And more shocking, did you know that transient global amnesia can be brought on by sex?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the general population, between three and eight people per 100,000 people each year experience transient global amnesia. The amazing thing is that -- here are the things that can cause that. Sudden immersion in cold or hot water, physical exertion, emotional or psychological stress, pain, medical procedures, sexual intercourse and similar events have been observed in 50 percent to 90 percent of these documented attacks of transient global amnesia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I guess we`re all in trouble, huh. It could also be brought on by stress. Now I know we`re in trouble!
So their defense is actually going to be that she can`t remember slashing her lover to death in the shower stall because she had too much sex or was under stress? Are you kidding me? And he`s absolutely saying this with a straight face?
Another fact that was revealed this week that I found shocking, that I don`t know if anybody else noticed, but I noticed it. Jodi Arias lied to her own shrink, to her own psychologist.
Now, I`ve averaged out the time that he spent with her. He has spent on the average four treatments a year with her. He has seen her four times a year. And for about half that time, she lied to him in her own defense, using that ridiculous ninja theory, that a man and a woman dressed as ninjas, all in black, broke into Travis Alexander`s home and killed him and let her go after reciting her information off her driver`s license, of course.
She stuck with that story for about half the time that she was with this shrink for the defense. So that narrows it down to about six sessions in all, six meetings in all in life. And he has come up with her having transient global amnesia?
I`d be interested to find out if she`s being treated for this condition. I don`t think she is. It must have been a one-time occurrence, coincidentally when she murdered Travis Alexander.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Forensic psychologist Dick Samuels says that Jodi Arias -- and this is his testimony to the jury this week -- is more confident, more in control and more positive in her life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you first met Ms. Arias, what was her -- what was she like as far as self-esteem and her confidence level when you first met her in 2009?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I felt that she was a woman with low self-esteem. I saw her as relatively -- pretty much of a pacifist. And I had read all of her writings by that point. I realized she was confused. I suspected that there was more to the story than she first revealed.
And of course, that expressed some concern to me because in order to do a proper evaluation, you have to confront, eventually, stories that may seem to be improbable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you notice any change in her self-esteem from then until more recently?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. The end of last year, I found her to be more confident and more in control of her feelings, more positive about her life. She was very depressed when I first met her, and she talked about suicide and so on. And so that depression seemed to have lifted to a large degree by the last time I had seen her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Is that relevant? Do we care? The point is what happened the day of the murder of Travis Alexander. I`m happy that Jodi Arias is more confident now, but what I really want to know about is the day she slashed and stabbed Travis Alexander 29 times, topping it all off by capping him in the head with a .25 and left him to die, to rot in a wet shower stall. That`s what I`m interested in.
I`m not really interested in her holding hands in a group and feeling confident. I don`t care. And let me point out that this week, we learn after nearly 20 days on the stand under oath -- first we learned on, I think, day 17 that Travis Alexander had proposed marriage to her. Oops! I forgot after my 17 days on the stand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: "But it still remains that I cannot marry him. I can`t quite put my finger on it, but something is just off with that boy."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was the subject of marriage previous to January 24th -- was that something that you and Travis were discussing?
ARIAS: Yes, we`d discussed it prior to that date.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And had he ever proposed to you?
ARIAS: Yes, he did over the phone once. There were times when he said it jokingly, but that one over the phone, I believed he was serious.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can`t quite put your finger on it, but something is off with that boy. What did you mean by that?
ARIAS: Well, that`s kind of my indirect way of referring to his issues that were, in my mind, something I couldn`t look past and accept.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Now we learn toward the end of her testimony that she observed Travis Alexander load the .25. We`ve never heard that before, ever, in 18 days of testimony.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you believed that that gun was unloaded, right?
ARIAS: I believed him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you believed that the gun was unloaded. I`m not asking whether or not you believed him. I`m asking whether or not you believed that gun was unloaded.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Beyond the scope of the questions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I believed him when he assured me that when I first found it, but he did end up loading it at one point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s that?
ARIAS: He loaded it at one point in early December.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whether he loaded -- that`s something you didn`t tell us before, right?
ARIAS: I mentioned it. I didn`t say that he loaded it in early December, but I mentioned at one point it was unloaded and then at one point, he used it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you`re saying now that he used this gun, then, right?
ARIAS: When I say used, I don`t mean if he fired it. I don`t know if he fired it. I just know that he loaded it and took it with him to go do something.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. And this is something that we`re hearing for the first time, right?
ARIAS: No, I mentioned it briefly, it just wasn`t expounded upon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And this gun that you say that you saw him load, even though you saw him load it, you believed on June 4th of 2008 was unloaded, right?
ARIAS: I didn`t know. I didn`t check it, so...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did I ask you if you checked it, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. She`s answering the question. It`s argumentative.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sustained.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m asking for your state of mind. Did you believe or not believe that the gun was loaded, one way or the other? What did you believe?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Asked and answered. She said she didn`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled. You may answer.
ARIAS: I didn`t stop to really think about whether it was loaded or not, so I don`t know. I just -- the only time the gun came to my head, I grabbed it and pointed it at him so that he would halt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, didn`t you tell the jury when you were talking about the attack, in response to one of their questions, that you believed the gun was unloaded? Do you remember saying that? Yes or no? That`s all I`m asking, yes or no? Do you remember saying that?
ARIAS: I don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And if you listen to her testimony and very carefully compare it to the testimony of her shrink, forensic psychologist Dr. Richard Samuels, you`ll hear the same buzzwords. She has tailored her testimony to his diagnosis, and likewise.
And I find that contrary to what I perceive justice is all about. You don`t tailor your testimony to give you a better shot at winning. You tell the truth.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: This week in court, we saw the use of an age-old trick by the defense, and that is not submitting or adhering to the rules of evidence, the rules of court and the rules of discovery.
As all you legal eagles know, the state, the prosecution must turn over to the defense far in advance of the trial discovery. That means all the witnesses` names, their addresses, ways to reach them, sometimes even a summary of the state`s witnesses` testimony, all scientific records, including autopsy reports, crime scene analysis, you name it, photos. Whatever they plan to use at trial, the defense must be privy to far in advance of trial.
Now, that discovery requirement is reciprocal. The defense must hand over certain things to the state, as well. In this case, the defense -- oops! -- forgot to hand over over 200 crime scene photos and more until mid-trial. In fact, the trial`s closer to the end than the beginning. The state, of course, objected.
Let me just tell you that there has never been a felony case that I tried, which is more than I can count, where the defense did not have newly discovered evidence or something they forgot to give the state. It`s critical that the state have the defense evidence, and likewise, so you can prepare a cross-examination of that evidence.
The state had a little over an hour to prepare to cross-examine on these photos before the photos were discussed in direct, which is totally inappropriate by the defense. It`s bad lawyering. It`s either bad lawyering or it`s intentionally deceptive by the defense.
Now, here`s the kicker. Because defendants -- not victims, not the state -- have their rights protected under our Constitution -- look at the Bill of Rights. They don`t say anything about protecting the victim, Travis Alexander. Our founding fathers didn`t think about Travis Alexander or other crime victims when the amendments were added. They all protect the accused.
So what does that mean to us today in the Jodi Arias trial? That means if the state had pulled that shenanigan, there would be a mistrial or the evidence would not be allowed in, more likely, because they didn`t hand it to the defense ahead of time.
Because the defense did it, what`s the remedy? Prosecution, you`ll have about 45 minutes to look at this before we begin our direct exam. That was the cure. It`s not very fair, is it. But that`s the way the law works, and the judge was correct in her ruling under the law. That is the law.
And as I have said -- and this is a quote. I can`t take credit for it. If that is the law, then the law is an ass!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Significant testimony was revealed this week when Jodi Arias was caught in a question that really originated from the jury questions. And it came on follow-up by the prosecution, Juan Martinez, where she was forced to admit under oath that she did not have the knife in her hand at the time she shot Travis Alexander.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDY KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On her final day on the stand, Jodi Arias was schooled in mathematics. Do the math, the prosecutor attempted to show, her story doesn`t add up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At some point in your life (INAUDIBLE) right? You know about time, ma`am. You know that movement takes time, don`t you?
KAYE: Martinez says Arias simply would not have had enough time, given the evidence, to first go searching for the knife she used to stab Travis Alexander nearly 30 times and slit his throat. He says she must have had the knife with her in the bathroom when she was taking these digital pictures of a naked Alexander in the shower.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would have taken time to actually look for it, wouldn`t it.
ARIAS: I guess, under that theory.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure, under that theory. It would take time, right?
ARIAS: Yes, I guess.
KAYE: To prove his theory of premeditation, the prosecutor showed these two photographs, taken just 62 seconds apart, according to their timestamps. Arias says this accidental photo of the ceiling was taken after she dropped Alexander`s camera, when he was still alive. That`s when she says he lunged at her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the 62 seconds between that photograph and exhibit 162, you are body-slammed. You get away. You get the gun. You shoot him. And then after you`re able to get away, you go get the knife, and he ends up at the end of the hallway all in 62 seconds. That`s what you`re telling us?
ARIAS: No, that`s not what I`m saying.
KAYE: Regardless of what Arias is saying, the photo timestamps say something else. In this second photo taken just over a minute later, Arias`s foot is seen next to Alexander`s bleeding body in the bathroom. By now, he`s been stabbed and shot. Would just 62 seconds between the photos have been enough time to support Arias`s scenario that a chase and a struggle occurred?
ARIAS: I don`t know.
KAYE: More than a month into her trial, on her 18th day on the stand, Jodi Arias offered a brand-new scenario for how the knife came into play. Listen to this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You needed to go get that knife at that point, correct?
ARIAS: No, it`s possible Travis grabbed the knife first.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You never told us that he had any knife there, did you?
ARIAS: No. I wasn`t asked.
KAYE: Jury members also had questions for Arias about the knife. Seems they, too, were trying to make sense of her changing story.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "You said you remember putting the knife in the dishwasher after killing Travis. But you also say you don`t remember anything after dropping the knife on the bathroom tile. Which is correct?"
ARIAS: I have a vague memory of putting a knife in the dishwasher. I`m just not sure if that`s the memory from June 4th.
KAYE: And there were more questions about the gun Arias used to kill Alexander. Was it in a holster or not when she says she grabbed it out of Alexander`s closet? Just last week, she told the jury she believes the gun had been in a holster. Now suddenly, she`s not so sure.
And this is key because the state believes she brought a gun with her to kill Alexander and never really grabbed a gun from Alexander`s closet.
Arias seemed to get tripped up again on this question about whether or not the gun was loaded.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Didn`t you tell the jury when you were talking about the attack, in response to one of their questions, that you believed the gun was unloaded? Do you remember saying that? Yes or no? That`s all I`m asking...
ARIAS: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... yes or no. Do you remember saying that?
ARIAS: I don`t know.
KAYE: After that, the prosecutor let her have it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What were you going to do with the gun, throw it at him?
KAYE: For once, even Jodi Arias seemed too flustered to respond. Randi Kaye, CNN, Phoenix, Arizona.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In her scenario, she would have to have run or gone somewhere to get the knife, presumably the kitchen. That does not fit with her story. What it fits with is that she entered that bathroom armed with a gun and a knife, and that shows premeditation.
END
