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Nancy Grace
LaViolette Testifies on Redirect
Aired April 10, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: ... Mr. Alexander`s unannounced and looked inside. You`re wear of that, right?
ALYCE LAVIOLETTE, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE EXPERT: Yes, I am.
MARTINEZ: Isn`t that an indication of a stalking state of mind?
LAVIOLETTE: No.
MARTINEZ: Because the person in the blue shirt over there moved to Mesa, Arizona, correct?
LAVIOLETTE: No, not correct.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "If you`re a lucky boy and you promise to give me a good, well-deserved spanking, maybe you could give my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) a much needed pounding, too."
MARTINEZ: Let me talk to you about the Spider-Man underwear. Do you know who Cameron Diaz is?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes, I do.
MARTINEZ: Do you know whether or not Mr. Alexander was very taken with Cameron Diaz?
LAVIOLETTE: No, I don`t.
MARTINEZ: Do you know whether or not she was wearing any Spider-Man underwear in a movie called "Charlie`s Angels"?
LAVIOLETTE: No, I don`t.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... "to have animalistic sex with and to please me in any way I desire."
MARTINEZ: All the things that you`ve told us, so far, there`s no indication at all that he`s interested in any little boys, right?
LAVIOLETTE: No.
MARTINEZ: Where does he talk about quirking (ph) a little girl, ma`am?
LAVIOLETTE: In a sex tape. He talks...
MARTINEZ: It is -- hold on...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... "that you can do have and have me do anything you ask of me at any time you want it, like a sex slave."
MARTINEZ: You do believe that her -- the defendant`s -- report that Mr. Alexander was found masturbating to images of children.
LAVIOLETTE: I believe it.
MARTINEZ: Believe it even though there`s no report about it, right?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "You couldn`t get off your lazy butt to read it, could you. That`s the sociopath I know so well. You`re the worst thing that ever happened to me."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
After Jodi Arias slashes and shoots her lover, Travis Alexander, to death, leaving his body in a wet shower stall, bombshell tonight. In the last hours, stunning Travis text to Arias, quote, "I want you to know how evil I think you are. You are the worst thing that ever happened to me. You are an evil sociopath."
The jury`s shocked. And then the tables turn when Jodi Arias`s second shrink on the stand, LaViolette, confronted with Arias`s peeping-Tom spying on Travis unhooking a girl`s bra on his sofa. And finally, the answer to the mystery of the boys` Spider-Man underwear is solved. Murder victim Travis Alexander fantasized, all right, but not about little boys, like Arias claimed under oath, but about a Hollywood star, Cameron Diaz in boys` Spidies in the movie "Charlie`s Angels." Torpedo to the defense!
Now we learn Arias tells her shrink, LaViolette, she guns Travis down in the closet. That`s critical, the closet! I guess they forgot the empty shell was in the bathroom!
Let`s go to the courtroom for testimony.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With battered women, why don`t they -- why isn`t there evidence a lot of times?
LAVIOLETTE: Because they don`t report. They don`t want friends and family to know what`s going on. Even if they have supportive friends and family, their supportive friends and family may want them to do something they`re not ready to do. They may want them to leave or make a police report. I hear that a lot. Well, you should call the police or you should leave, and people aren`t ready to leave.
And if they make a police report, they`re thrown into a system that can make them feel very powerless. I`m not sure how it works out here, but if you have children and the police are called, the Department of Children and Family Services comes out. People are afraid that they will lose their children.
People are afraid that they will have enormous fines to pay. People are afraid they`ll ruin their partner`s career or that something they say will become public. There`s -- I mean, there are just so many reasons that people don`t report that it`s actually less common for people to report than for them to report.
And oftentimes, when a report is made, it`s maybe because a neighbor heard something and made a call and the police come out on that call.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does that cause problems for...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Everyone, you are hearing live testimony. It`s ongoing in that Phoenix courthouse.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... with battered women of lack of reporting?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes. I mean, there`s -- it`s one of the toughest things with domestic violence cases is that -- pulling together evidence that there`s domestic violence, you have to oftentimes look at the person`s word, but that`s not enough evidence. The person`s word in and of itself isn`t enough evidence. You have to have...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can I ask you something with that?
LAVIOLETTE: Sure.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You say the person`s word -- are you talking about, like, if a woman were to call the police and say something happened to her?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Go ahead.
LAVIOLETTE: Or you know, if I was to -- if a person was to go to court and say that something happened, you need some evidence that supports what you said. You can`t just have -- I mean, our court system is based on that. You have to have some evidence that things happened. So you have to look at what corroborates the truth of what somebody says. So if somebody talks about being physically abused and if you have history and you have documentation of a lot of verbal abuse, you have more reason to believe that that`s happening.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And do you have that here? Do you have history and documentation of verbal abuse here?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes, I do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And so does that give you a better reason to believe that there was physical violence, as well?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And did you also see Ms. Arias`s broken finger?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes, I did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And did you see -- could you tell that it was not healed in a straight way?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection (INAUDIBLE) rule 703.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Approach, please.
GRACE: Everyone, you are seeing testimony ongoing there in the Phoenix courthouse.
Jean Casarez, so much has happened today. I would say this was a critical day. And what stunned me the most was we learned from LaViolette`s notes, as they`re getting ready for trial, Arias tells her she shot Travis in the closet.
OK, let me try Beth. Beth, did you get that question? She tells LaViolette she shot Travis in the closet.
BETH KARAS, "IN SESSION": Yes, indeed. Her notes reflect that the two of them were in the closet at the same time. Jodi Arias equivocated on that on the stand, but in no uncertain terms says she shot Travis Alexander in the bathroom. In fact, she never even said she shot him. She says the gun went off. She won`t own up to actually pulling the trigger. She had to be reminded that her finger had to be on that trigger for the gun to go off and to shoot him in the head.
GRACE: OK, guys, let`s go back in the courtroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sustained.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So left hand?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, leading question. You gave her the answer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh. Sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sustained.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Which hand?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would ask that she (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Which hand -- do you remember which hand it is that you noticed the bent finger on?
LAVIOLETTE: I think it was her left hand, but I`m not sure. I just remember it was this finger, the fourth finger...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her ring finger?
LAVIOLETTE: ... and it was bent. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And you remember that it was bent?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Objection, leading.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m just repeating what she said.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you remember that it was bent?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes, I did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. All right, with regard to the journal entry from September 13th, 2007, when they go to (INAUDIBLE) you were given hypotheticals. Do you remember that?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: About how the fight supposedly started?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And assume, then, for this hypothetical, Mr. Freeman (ph) came in and testified that Ms. Arias -- that he unloaded her backpack a little bit to lighten the load, OK?
LAVIOLETTE: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because they`re all getting ready to go hike.
LAVIOLETTE: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right? And when Ms. Arias saw that her backpack had this stuff taken out of it, that she got upset in general.
LAVIOLETTE: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then assume that she -- that he testified that she wasn`t upset with anyone in particular, just upset that things were taken out, OK?
LAVIOLETTE: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And in response to her being upset in general, not at anybody specifically, that Mr. Freeman testified that Mr. Alexander made a harsh and sarcastic comment, OK?
LAVIOLETTE: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And after that, they went upstairs -- or I`m sorry, Ms. Arias goes upstairs, and then Mr. Freeman testified that Mr. Alexander went after her and they were talking for about 20 minutes and he can hear Mr. Alexander`s loud voice yelling. OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Mischaracterizes the testimony of yelling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Approach.
GRACE: OK, I want to try Jean Casarez again. Everybody, we are live and camped outside that Phoenix courthouse. Let`s try to go through this while they`re in that sidebar. Liz, do I have Jean? Jean, Beth and I...
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Yes, you do, Nancy.
GRACE: Thanks. Jean, we were talking with Beth about how critical it is that LaViolette has in her notes -- this is trial preparation -- just before trial, Arias is telling her she shot Travis in the closet. The gunshell`s in the bathroom. It contradicts her earlier story. Her story`s all over the map, even today!
CASAREZ: Nancy, I think this is the most critical thing that came out today for the prosecution because what it does, Nancy -- she bared her soul on the stand, saying, I am telling the truth, I am under oath. And her truth is that the shot was made in the bathroom, and now we find she told her expert something else. Could this have been the basis for why it became a self-defense case?
GRACE: You know, Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, Radaronline.com, you know, I`m not surprised that Arias is lying. But you would think on a critical fact, she`d at least keep her story straight, right?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: You would think that, but she can`t. She cannot keep anything straight. And she even said when she was on the stand -- Juan Martinez said to her, Well, this doesn`t make any sense because you say that you shot him first, but the bullet casing is on top of the blood. She said, Well, it didn`t happen that way. But she never explained that.
Well, since had three stories for everything, this is the fourth story. And she told -- this is the woman that`s actually getting paid $300 an hour to tell Jodi`s side of the story, and it doesn`t match with Jodi`s story.
GRACE: Everybody, that sidebar still ongoing. We`ll take you straight back in for live testimony. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTINEZ: I`m over here. Keep looking to your left. In August of...
LAVIOLETTE: I`d rather look over here.
MARTINEZ: There`s this physical altercation. There are no reports of it, correct?
LAVIOLETTE: Correct.
MARTINEZ: There is no journal entry indicating that either, is there.
LAVIOLETTE: No. And that would make sense.
MARTINEZ: It makes sense because you are biased in this case, aren`t you, in favor of the defendant.
LAVIOLETTE: I found the kicking incident to be truthful. When I saw Ms. Arias, she had a broken finger.
MARTINEZ: Other than the defendant`s word, you really don`t have anything that corroborates this allegation of child pornography, do you.
LAVIOLETTE: No, I do not. I`m not an expert on child pornography. I`m not an expert on sex addiction.
MARTINEZ: Yet you still chose to believe it, though, didn`t you.
LAVIOLETTE: I believe it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We`re about to take you straight back in for live testimony. Everybody, welcome back. We`re camped outside the Phoenix courthouse.
Very quickly, Alexis Weed, is it true that there is another defense witness?
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: We`re hearing that there is another defense witness, Nancy, and we`re hearing it could be a recall. It could be a man who testified earlier who authenticated the audiotapes that were given of the sex tape, the May 10th sex tape between Arias and Travis.
GRACE: And what does that mean?
WEED: Well, we`re all wondering. There were supposedly seven tapes that were handed over. That was in his original testimony. I don`t know if we`re going to hear more.
GRACE: Hold on! Hold on! Alexis...
WEED: I don`t know if we`re going to...
GRACE: I don`t mean to interrupt you.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Alexis, we`ve got to go back in the courtroom. Let`s go, Liz.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you`ve assumed all those things, right?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Is it important to you that -- or does it mean anything to you that Mr. Alexander reacts in a way to Jodi being upset in general, not at any one specifically? Is it important to you that he reacts with a harsh and sarcastic comment directed right at Ms. Arias?
LAVIOLETTE: Well, not if it stands on its own...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
LAVIOLETTE: ... because people can do that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
LAVIOLETTE: Any human being can get angry and make a harsh and sarcastic remark. So that standing on its own had no relevance to me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
LAVIOLETTE: The fact that there was a pattern of harsh and sarcastic remarks, and worse, that made a difference to me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So is this something that -- is this a point, then, that you would consider in looking at the overall pattern of him making harsh and critical comments to Ms. Arias?
LAVIOLETTE: It`s one of the things I would consider.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. What about the fact that he -- that Ms. Arias goes upstairs by herself and then Mr. Alexander follows her and continues to have an argument with her, yelling at her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. (INAUDIBLE) the evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The jury is directed to recall the testimony previously provided during the trial. You may continue.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. The fact that Ms. Arias goes up by herself and that Mr. Alexander seems to follow her and continue with an argument -- taken alone, I`m guessing you`re going to say that that doesn`t mean, necessarily, anything. If we look at this in a greater pattern, does it mean something to you?
LAVIOLETTE: It means something because it`s -- the continuation -- his apparent, you know, inability to stop, his apparent, you know, inability to stop it when he gets really angry, that he just keeps going with it, and if he happens to be in the same room, that he might follow. We call it playing chase.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You call it -- I`m sorry, what?
LAVIOLETTE: Playing chase, when one person doesn`t allow the other person to get away and have some time on their own. And that`s not something that lots of people don`t do. I mean, that`s not an uncommon behavior. You just have to look at the entire context.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. All right.
GRACE: Now, remember, this text took forefront today, where we hear Travis Alexander speaking from beyond the grave, really, telling Jodi Arias, "You are the most evil person. You`re the worst thing that has ever happened to me."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... have questions about journal entries in general, I think specifically the August 26th, 2007, journal entry, where it doesn`t mention necessarily negative things about Mr. Alexander, right?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And is that the journal entry that there`s a half a page torn out?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then did you see Ms. Arias`s actual journal, where you saw pages torn out?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes, I did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And have you seen journal entries where Ms. Arias talks about...
GRACE: Travis Alexander texts, "I want you to understand how evil I think you are." This is just before his death.
Very quickly, Jean Casarez, Beth Karas, Alexis Tereszcuk, Alexis Weed, I`m getting text from my "Dancing With the Stars" friend David Arquette. He wants to know, "What about the theory that Jodi Arias held the gun on Travis Alexander while she was taking pictures of him in the shower, and then everything went sideways?"
Weigh in, Jean.
CASAREZ: Well, that -- if you follow Jodi`s theory that she shot him first, but yet go the route of the prosecution, that`s very, very plausible right there because he would be in a vulnerable place. But the prosecution believes that he was stabbed first, so that would mean the knife...
GRACE: OK. What about it, Beth?
CASAREZ: ... would have been closer than the gun at that point.
GRACE: What about it, Beth?
KARAS: Well, she would have to -- she`d have to be holding the gun and taking pictures. And I guess it`s possible. She`s left-handed. She could hold the gun with her left hand. And the camera has a right-handed grip. I mean, it`s possible. You have to believe Jodi`s theory that she shot him first and that that first shot was not very debilitating because he fought hard for his life.
GRACE: You know what? It`s very confusing about when the stab wounds occurred, when the gunshot occurred. But we all know that that gunshot wound would have disabled him. It went through his head. It hit his brain.
I hope that answered your question, David. We`re going to be right back with live testimony. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are live and bringing you the testimony as it happens. Let`s go straight back into the courtroom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... she will not write negative things about Travis, that she promised Travis that she wouldn`t write negative things about him in her journals?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes, I have.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So the fact that she makes this promise and the fact that there`s torn-out pages -- well, why did she tear out those pages? Did someone tell her to do it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Speculation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sustained.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know who told her to take those pages out?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Speculation. Lack of foundation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled. You may answer yes or no.
LAVIOLETTE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who is that?
LAVIOLETTE: Mr. Alexander.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And is that part of a controlling behavior on his part, telling her to rip pages out that were negative about him?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And do those torn pages -- torn-out pages, do they come before she talks about making a promise to him about not writing negative things?
LAVIOLETTE: Do they...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do they come before -- well, they`re all contained in the same journal, right...
LAVIOLETTE: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... where she`s talking about making a promise to him about not writing negative things.
LAVIOLETTE: Oh. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. So when we`re looking at the big picture of her journal entries, you were asked questions about whether or not there was anything in these journal entries that ever detailed when he kicked her, right, and broke her finger?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And is there anything in the journal entry about that?
LAVIOLETTE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And does she ever specifically give details about when he strangled her?
LAVIOLETTE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does she ever give any details in her journal about when he backhanded her?
LAVIOLETTE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that consistent with the controlling behavior...
GRACE: Let me go to Peter Odom, defense attorney out of Atlanta. LaViolette looks beat. She looks exhausted. And have you noticed, Peter, that when Martinez sits down and this lawyer gets up, it`s like all the air is sucked out of the courtroom. It`s, like, deflated.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Martinez has been yelling at her for a week and half. Anybody would be tired.
GRACE: Oh, wah-wah!
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: But I mean, there is no charisma here. At least Martinez has charisma.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTINEZ: You are familiar with the defendant`s family (INAUDIBLE) issues in this case, right?
SANDY ARIAS, JODI`S MOTHER: Jodi has mental problems! Jodi would freak out all the time!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) that there were many issues involving her father, right?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes, sir, numerous issues.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s a strange person (INAUDIBLE) after she left the house (INAUDIBLE) strange.
MARTINEZ: ... was that her father was less than truthful, correct?
LAVIOLETTE: Are you talking about the tape?
FATHER: She has never been honest with us.
LAVIOLETTE: During her childhood, he was -- he made sexually inappropriate comments to her.
FATHER: She called my wife and was really kind of crazy. She was upset and she treated my wife like crap.
LAVIOLETTE: -- the mother hit her child with a spoon and left welts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi, you have (INAUDIBLE) all this fantasy in your head that you had rotten childhood.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are live camped outside the Phoenix courthouse bringing you testimony as it happens because with the time difference, testimony still ongoing. We are also taking your calls. With me, Jean Casarez, Beth Karas, Alexis Tereszcuk, Alexis Weed and other special guest tonight, Aubry Hiatt, close friend of Travis.
Very quickly, Beth Karas, not only did we learn today that Jodi Arias tells her own shrink, the coup de gras, the ultimate witness for the defense, LaViolette, that she shoots Travis in the closet, when all along her story`s been, it`s in the bathroom, the shell casing is in the bathroom she also says in these notes, and this is trial prep, that the knife was on the bed stand in the bedroom. Didn`t we hear all this time, I don`t know where the knife was. I don`t know what happened to it. All that rigmarole she told LaViolette, it was right in the bedroom.
BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And there have been a lot of inconsistencies in not just LaViolette`s notes, but Dr. Samuels, the psychologist who testified before her. Their interviews with Jodi Arias don`t always comport in the details what Jodi Arias said on the stand, LaViolette also had previously told Martinez in an interview pretrial that Jodi Arias caught Travis Alexander on January 21st pleasuring himself to pictures of boys on the computer. And that wasn`t the case, it was another error.
GRACE: And when she -- you know, you`re right about that, Beth, that`s another bombshell in court today, another torpedo to the defense. Because she tells LaViolette, Arias tells LaViolette, the alleged child porn that he was masturbating to when she happened to walk in, was on a computer. But all we heard throughout the whole trial was that she walked in and he had those images laid out on the bed. That is drastically different, Beth!
KARAS: Yes. Now, LaViolette said she made the leap herself, that those weren`t Jodi`s words about the computer, she made the leap to a computer, she said, because everybody looks at things on the computer.
GRACE: But wait a minute. Wait.
KARAS: Let me explain.
GRACE: But Beth, Beth, Beth, I hear what you`re saying, you`re recounting what LaViolette said, but very quickly, do you, Leslie, also psychotherapist in New York, if she were describing that scenario to LaViolette, the shrink, that she needs to tell everything to construct her self defense theory.
LESLIE AUSTIN, PH.D., PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Of course, she does.
GRACE: She would have described walking in and seeing the photos laid out on the bed.
AUSTIN: Yes.
GRACE: There would be no mistaking that for LaViolette.
AUSTIN: None.
GRACE: That`s not what she told LaViolette.
AUSTIN: Right. None. And if LaViolette made this assumption, how many other assumptions is she making without grounding them, without talking to anybody Travis knows. She`s very biased.
GRACE: Although, the bottom line for me is not so much LaViolette making her own assumption, is Arias told her a different story. That`s where I`m -- that`s where I am screaming. Let`s go out to special guest joining me right now by phone, Andrew Scott, former chief of police, Boca Raton. Lis, let me see that graphic you made up, all along, isn`t this right, Jean Casarez, she`s been telling us she shot Travis in the bathroom. And suddenly, we learn she`s told her shrink all along she shot him in the closet, right, Jean?
JEAN CASAREZ: Yes. That`s exactly right. So now we`re hearing two things right now, the shell casing being in the bathroom. But she did testify that when she went in the bedroom, and in the closet to get the gun, Travis followed her in.
GRACE: OK, to you, Andrew Scott, thank you for joining us, you`re an expert in ballistics. What`s the kick on that? On the 25, you shoot, how far is your shell casing going to go? Let me see that graphic again while he`s talking, Lis.
ANDREW J. SCOTT, FMR. CHIEF OF POLICE, BOCA RATON: Your shell casing is going to go anywhere between four to eight feet once it`s ejected and it depends on how much it bounces. But you`ve got a four to eight foot window where you can identify where the shooter was.
GRACE: We`re seeing just the edge of the closet. And if she shoots him in the closet, that is way, way, way beyond eight feet. And I`d also like to point out that the shell casing is on top of the blood, which is another forensic fact. Andrew Scott, thank you, I needed that. Quickly, Liz, take me into the courtroom, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it also consistent with someone who is battered minimizing what actually is going on?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And can you tell us what that means then, minimizing?
LAVIOLETTE: Minimizing, minimizing or denying is when you look at something that`s happened and you find a way to make it fit into sort of your world view, make it make sense of it. So you usually describe it as less than what it was. You -- we had groups in the shelter and outreach groups and individual sessions where women who were abused and I worked with some men who were abused, where they would -- where they would minimize what was going on. They would talk about it as, well, you know, it wasn`t as bad as it seemed. Or it might sound bad, but it really wasn`t that bad at the time or it`s not happening everyday. And that`s one of the biggest ones I hear, this doesn`t happen everyday, you know, this doesn`t happen every week. This is, you know, unusual behavior or this person doesn`t usually call me names or whatever that is. Or they don`t tell you all the names that they call you, they tell you less than what`s actually happened. And that`s really kind of .
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do they do that, though?
LAVIOLETTE: Well, you have to -- you have to live with yourself. You have to -- you love somebody and you don`t want to think that somebody you love really thinks those things about you. So you explain it to yourself so you don`t have to feel horrible. And so that probably you`re not ready to leave and you don`t have to leave.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And so, if she were to memorialize these horrible things that he did to her, is that -- would that be then .
GRACE: What LaViolette is trying to do here, is suggest to the jury that the reason Arias never told anybody she was beaten by Travis is that she didn`t want to make him look bad, that she loved him, as opposed to the fact that it never happened.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do people want to remember the horrible things that the abusers do to them?
LAVIOLETTE: No, they don`t.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And by memorializing it in the journals that they keep, journals that they`ve kept since being a young child, then wouldn`t that memorialize it for them, wouldn`t that remind them on an almost constant basis of the horrible things that the abuser did to them?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In reading through her journal entries, does she talk about, generally speaking .
GRACE: Right now, you see the defense, damage control after a scathing cross-exam by Martinez. This is live testimony we are bringing to you. Please stay with us.
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MARTINEZ: So in a sense, what you`re saying is you`re a human lie detector, right?
LAVIOLETTE: I would not call myself a human lie detector. I decided that there was domestic violence.
MARTINEZ: You`re (INAUDIBLE) what was said at the purple plum about her being manipulative? That`s what you`re telling me, right?
LAVIOLETTE: I believe that she was manipulative at that time, it doesn`t mean I believe as a characteristic that she is.
MARTINEZ: You told me, you found the defendant telling the truth?
LAVIOLETTE: I found her to be credible. I have no evidence prior to Mr. Alexander that she was manipulative with men.
GRACE: Welcome back. We`re live and camped out at the Phoenix courthouse bringing you the latest. You`re not missing a word of testimony. We`ve got it on pause, we`ll take you right back in. So you don`t miss a word. Very quickly to Aubry Hiatt, a very dear friend of Travis Alexander, Travis told her something especially disturbing to me. Aubry, thank you for being with us. I know Travis was like a brother to you, an older brother. I know that he brought Jodi to your family`s home many times on Sunday dinners. But I`m interested in what Travis told you after Jodi slashed his tires.
AUBRY HIATT, CLOSE FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Well, Jodi slashed his tires probably, you know, a few times a week. He was coming home or coming over to our house with a new tire all the time, it was either he was hitting a pothole all the time or he had some kind of stalker slashing his tires, which appeared to be Jodi. He would come home and he said, you know, don`t be surprised if you find me dead one day. And, you know, we kind of took it a little bit not serious, like as a joke because Travis is very humorous. But, you know, as it went on and the more it went on and we found out, you know, who was doing it, and it was obvious how crazy she was and that it was a serious issue.
GRACE: Aubry, everyone also taking calls -- the very dear friend of Travis, this is Aubry Hiatt, who viewed Travis as her older brother. Aubry, again, thank you for being with us. You said when we finally figured out when we learnt it was, in fact, Jodi, who had done these things to him, slash his tires numerous times. How did you find out that it was Jodi?
HIATT: Just from my brother. And he just -- I mean my brother is best friends with Travis. And, you know, he shares a lot of close things with him. And so that`s how I, you know, would come to find out.
GRACE: So Travis knew for a fact that it had been Jodi that slashed his tires and told your brother, that`s how you found out?
HIATT: Yeah.
GRACE: Aubry, she came over to your home many times, Sundays after church. What was your take on her? How did they behave around you together?
HIATT: Jodi was a little bit - but she was very reserved. She didn`t talk a ton. Like I couldn`t recall one time, you know, hearing her voice. But she seemed like the type of person that Travis wouldn`t be with just because he`s very outgoing and happy and she was just quiet and kept to herself, kind of awkward, I guess you could say. And, you know, could be the type of person I would be questioned.
GRACE: Aubry, when you are hearing the way that Travis is being dragged through the mud, how -- what is your reaction to that?
HIATT: It hurts a lot, really, because Travis was an incredible guy. And to me, he was the guy who had superpowers. You know, he -- he obviously we all make mistakes in a lot of different things and, you know, he had what he had going on, but he couldn`t have ever done anything and hearing all these things, it really just kind of tears me apart that Jodi could be making him out to this type of person because it`s not who he was. And, you know, she can get as far as she wants to, you know, defending herself, but Travis isn`t here anymore and it just makes it harder and harder to really go on and to, you know, let his good memories live because she`s just making all these bad ones. And it`s really hard. It`s difficult.
GRACE: Aubry, so his words were to you, don`t be surprised if you find out one day I`m dead. And he was referring to Jodi Arias?
HIATT: Yeah. He was referring to Jodi Arias and his crazy ex- girlfriend, you know, slashing his tires all the time, stalking
GRACE: I got it. With me is Aubry Hiatt, a very dear friend of Travis Alexander`s.
Now to you, Monica Lindstrom, defense attorney, I guess your response to that type of evidence is that it`s inadmissible, right?
MONICA LINDSTROM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it is, Nancy. It`s not coming into the courtroom. So, we might know it out here, but the jury doesn`t see it. In fact, the only evidence that they`ve heard at all about any kind of stalking behavior came out today with the text messages and how she was looking in the house.
So, although we hear a bunch of stuff out here in the media well, the jury hasn`t heard .
GRACE: I don`t know that I would have put it, Monica, as looking in the house. You make it sound so pristine, so OK. As a matter of fact, Peter Odom, what she was doing, she crept up through the shrubs and had her nose to the window watching Travis in intimate moments with another woman. That`s what happened.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: OK.
GRACE: And?
ODOM: And what? I mean, she`s certainly not a perfect person. The jury`s heard a lot of really bad stuff about her, not the least of which is that she killed a man. So, that`s the least of her worries, Nancy. Her biggest concern is that she`s told three separate stories about what happened.
GRACE: Well, I guess I see it as an escalation in stalking that ultimately crescendoed in a murder. I mean yeah, she`s pressed up against the window, watching her ex undoing some girl`s bra on the sofa. All right. Fine.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You may just mess it up (ph). But I can tell you this much, Peter Odom, if you look out your window and see some guy`s nose pressed up to it while you`re making out with your wife, I guess you would think it was a lot bigger deal than you think it is tonight, Peter, if it had happened to you!
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MARTINEZ: You did not obtain a Ph.D., did you?
LAVIOLETTE: No. But I continued in studies.
MARTINEZ: But the answer is, no, you do not have a Ph.D., right?
LAVIOLETTE: No, I do not have a Ph.D. I might have more training than someone with a Ph.D.
MARTINEZ: I`m not asking about other areas, I`m talking about psychological tests. Do we understand each other?
LAVIOLETTE: We definitely understand each other.
GRACE: Very quickly, out to you, Beth, what did we learn today about this boy`s Spider-man underwear, the mystery finally solved that it`s not little boys he`s fantasizing, but according to the prosecution it`s Cameron Diaz in "Charlie`s Angels."
KARAS: Correct. And, you know, an attorney has to have a good faith basis for asking the question. And Juan Martinez said are you aware that Travis Alexander really likes Cameron Diaz and that she wore Spiderman underwear in a movie. He didn`t mention "Charlie`s Angels." But that was the movie. But he said Travis Alexander really was enamored with her and liked her a lot.
GRACE: Yeah.
KARAS: That was new information.
GRACE: Jean Casarez, how is the jury responding to this? Because I notice a complete drop in the excitement level, the interest in the jury. When Martinez sits down and the others get up, it`s just like a buzz kill.
CASAREZ: But you know what, they are so focused, it doesn`t matter who is talking, they are listening and the questions are mounting.
GRACE: OK. Everybody. Let`s go back in the courtroom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Generally speaking, negative things about Mr. Alexander, does she say some negative things?
LAVIOLETTE: She says some negative things and they are general.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Does she talk about him having harsh words or critical words for her?
LAVIOLETTE: Yeah, and cruel behavior.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And cruel behavior. OK. But she does -- she specifically put things in there where -- did you ever see anywhere in her journals where she says that he called her a slut?
LAVIOLETTE: I don`t remember.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Did you ever see her write anything about that he called her a whore?
LAVIOLETTE: I don`t remember that either.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what about, did you ever see anything in her journals where he called her a three-hole wonder?
LAVIOLETTE: No.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We remember American hero Marine Master Sergeant Daniel Fedder, 34, Pine City, Minnesota. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Navy Marine Corps Commendation Medal. Parents, Bob and Jackie, brother Dominic, wife Diana, children, Danielle and Storm. Daniel Fedder, American hero.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what about, did you ever see anything in her journals where he called her a three-hole wonder?
LAVIOLETTE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And did you ever see anything in there where he called -- that she`s telling her journal that he called her a bitch?
LAVIOLETTE: No. I don`t remember her talking about name-calling in her journal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: None of those specific things in her journals, right?
LAVIOLETTE: Not that I remember.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But yet when you read the instant message between them, when he is ranting to her on May 26th, he calls her all those things, doesn`t he?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes, he does.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And so, you know from reading those instant messages that that is truthful, those things happened, right?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But yet we don`t see it in her journal?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes, we don`t see it. I mean, no, we don`t see it in her journal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
You were asked some questions about manipulation, right? Judge, may I approach?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ll be approach .
GRACE: As they approach, unleash the lawyers, Monica Lindstrom, Peter Odom and psychotherapist Leslie Austin, how do you believe it`s going, Monica?
LINDSTROM: Well, I believe that she`s made some progress rehabilitating this witness, but the jury has already made up their minds. They know Jodi is a liar, but they might be believing this expert. And even though she`s made some mistakes, she`s had some really good things to say. So it might not be going as bad as everybody seems to think for her.
GRACE: Peter?
ODOM: Nancy, the defense is trying to win this case not with a grand slam, but with bunts and singles.
GRACE: Good point.
ODOM: They`re chipping away. I think they`re doing a great job.
GRACE: Leslie?
AUSTIN: I think they`re chipping away and it`s not going to be enough to overwhelm all of the other facts and evidence against Jodi. I think she`ll be convicted.
GRACE: Everyone, testimony is winding down in that Phoenix courthouse. "Dr. Drew Up" next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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