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Nancy Grace

Arias Prosecution Rests With Medical Examiner Testimony

Aired April 25, 2013 - 20:00   ET



JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: And according to your version of events, you would acknowledge that that stabbing was after the shooting, according to you, right?

JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: Yes, I don`t remember.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "How frequently have you seen injuries with a .25 caliber weapon?"

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably at least 100-200 times.

MARTINEZ: If the gunshot was the first event...

If the gunshot were the first injury...

If the gunshot wound was the first wound, what effect would it have had on Mr. Alexander, if it had been the first injury to his body?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He may have been able to take a step or two, probably would have collapsed from lost consciousness within seconds.

ARIAS: (INAUDIBLE) gun went off, he went -- (INAUDIBLE) he was lunging at me. We fell over. He was grabbing at my clothes. He was trying to get on top of me. We were struggling and wrestling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And because the injury to the brain would have rendered him unable raise his hands to offer any sort of purposeful action.

ARIAS: The moment I broke away, that`s when he threatened my life. He said (EXPLETIVE DELETED) going to kill you, (EXPLETIVE DELETED)

I know he was screaming and cursing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And because the injury to the brain would have rendered him unable to verbalize anything.

MARTINEZ: Would he then be able to walk, get up and walk, go to the sink, and then ambulate down the hallway if the gunshot wound were the first event?


MARTINEZ: And you told us that he was cursing at you, right?


MARTINEZ: And that he threw you down, right?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With a head injury, a brain injury, I don`t think he`s going to be able to do that.

MARTINEZ: I don`t have any other questions. Thank you.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

After Jodi Arias slashes and shoots her lover, Travis Alexander, to death, leaving him dead in a shower stall, bombshell tonight. Another juror bites the dust, in the last hours, juror number 8 mysteriously thrown off the jury.

And tonight, the state`s case ends. That`s right, the state`s rebuttal case is over, this just moments after Martinez ripping Arias`s story to shreds with the medical examiner on the stand, swearing under oath there is no way Travis Alexander could stand up, much less walk, after he takes a bullet to the head that severs his frontal lobe.

And with us tonight, the woman Travis Alexander planned to marry. Everyone, we are taking your calls, but I want to go straight out to the courthouse, to Jean Casarez, standing by. Jean Casarez, ripped the story to shreds with the medical examiner! What happened?

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": And Nancy, it was so simplistic, his testimony. Remember, it is to rebut the entire testimony of Jodi Arias of what happened right in that bathroom and when it happened. And the frontal lobe is the key. That is the part of the brain that is comprehension and also, neurologically, he wouldn`t have been able to do all of the movement that she testified to. He wouldn`t have been able to go to the sink or stand at the sink. And that`s the blood evidence that shows that. And he wouldn`t have been able to run after and chase Jodi as she fought for her life.

GRACE: Oh, and they asked -- the jury asking so many critical questions. But what I want to hear right now is the testimony of the medical examiner. And this is a torpedo to Jodi Arias`s defense. It completely debunks her entire story. Listen to this.


MARTINEZ: And you`re the individual that conducted the medical examination or autopsy of Travis Alexander`s body, correct?


MARTINEZ: And one of the things that you were able to determine was that there was a gunshot wound, correct?


MARTINEZ: Taking a look at exhibit 207, is this the gunshot wound that you found?


MARTINEZ: In terms of this particular gunshot wound, what organ did it strike, and what effect would it have had on Mr. Alexander if it had been the first injury to his body?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It passed through the front of the right side of his skull and would have injured the right frontal lobe of his brain and would have been very rapidly incapacitating.

MARTINEZ: When you say very rapidly incapacitating, what does that mean if -- to those of us that are not in the medical profession? Would he have gone down? Would he have stood there? Would he have crawled? What would (INAUDIBLE) what would have happened?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He may have been able to take a step or two, probably would have collapsed from lost consciousness within seconds.

MARTINEZ: As a result of this particular injury, if this was the first injury, would he have been able after two seconds to attempt to hold onto somebody, whoever may have been there -- for example, the defendant. Would he have been able to do that had that been the first event or the first injury?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t believe so, no.

MARTINEZ: Why not?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, because of the injury, and it`s not just the passage of the projectile through the brain, but it`s also the shockwave of the projectile passing through with velocity and injuring that structure. So it would have been neurologic shock, incapacitation, unconsciousness.

MARTINEZ: After this had happened, would he have been able to -- let`s say after more than the two seconds that you`ve indicated -- would he have any knowledge, or would he be cognizant of his surroundings such that he would have been able to attempt to defend himself?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Objection, speculation.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t believe so no.

MARTINEZ: Why not?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, because of the injury to the brain, the information processing part of the brain would have rendered him unable to raise his hands to offer any sort of purposeful action or to verbalize anything.

MARTINEZ: Again, what if this shot would have been the first event, and he is down for two or three seconds -- what if the indication were that there was a period of time in which his assailant went to, for example, the bedroom, and the nightstand specifically to pick up a knife and then come back? If that would have happened and that would have been done in rapid succession, maybe 10 seconds later, would Mr. Alexandria have had the mental capacity to move his hands and attempt to grab...


GRACE: Look at Arias! Look at Arias right now!

OK, did you see Arias looking away? I`m going to show you -- don`t show it yet, Justin. I`m going to show you what she was looking at, all right? But she`s looking at pictures of Travis Alexander, all right? And in court, in front of the jury, she`s all -- her lip is shaking and she`s crying and she`s looking away.

And I`m going to go back to the courthouse with Beth and Jean, and they`re going to confirm for you the way she acted when she first saw these shots.

Now, let me -- let me set it up for you. Martinez, the prosecutor, with no warning, suddenly put the shots up, and she immediately looked away like she was going to start gagging and vomiting again.

Now, remember, this is all at her hand, all right? She didn`t have that problem at the time she murdered Travis Alexander. But in front of the jury, suddenly she can`t bear to look at it.

All right, let me warn you these photos are extremely disturbing. These are the photos that Jodi Arias and the jury both saw today in court. These are crime scene photos.

OK, while we`re showing you what she saw -- you can roll them now, Justin -- I want to go to Dr. Bill Manion. That`s the bullet hole, nine of the stab wounds. There were many more. This is measuring -- they are measuring -- actually measuring the wounds. This is a shot that we have seen before of his hand. You see the blood pooling underneath. That is a sign as to how long he`s been dead.

Here they are. They`re searching for defensive wounds on the hand. They had to clean, wash all the blood off before they could even begin to examine the wounds to the hand -- more hand -- this is very, very important. And I`m going to have Dr. Manion explain to you why -- why the hands are so important in this case.

Let me go out to Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner, joining me out of Philadelphia. Dr. Manion, my big question is, if you take a bullet through the frontal lobe of your brain, is it possible for you to continue standing, much less walking, having conversation with people, threatening them, tackling them? Is that possible?

DR. BILL MANION, MEDICAL EXAMINER (via telephone): Well, I would agree with the medical examiner that the gunshot to the skull would cause a concussion and knock the person out. But I -- you know, on page 4 of his written report, he said that the brain tissue did not appear to be injured. So it was my impression that that bullet went through the -- right in front of the brain and went through the (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: Well, what he said on the stand today cleared it all up.


GRACE: Out to you, Beth Karas. Explain what he said about simple geometry, the bullet had to go through the brain.

BETH KARAS, "IN SESSION": Right. It went through -- it entered right above the right eyebrow, in the center of the eyebrow, and it lodged in the left cheek. He had to make an incision to remove it. So It had a downward trajectory. But he believes it passed through the frontal lobe.

Now, he had earlier said the brain really was liquefied. Really, he said, it was more like pudding. So I believe what he meant in the report is he couldn`t tell. He said he really can`t tell...


GRACE: ... Travis Alexander`s brain was like pudding because of the decomposition, because Jodi Arias left him in a shower stall for his body to decompose, and his body wasn`t found until days later. But even though the brain was of a pudding consistency at the time the autopsy was performed, simple logic -- hey, you know what? I`m not a Ph.D. Well, I guess law degree counts. But I`m not a medical examiner. I`m not a doctor.

But Beth, we know that if you put the gun here and it goes directly through, it has to go through your brain.

KARAS: Well, it certainly seems to be the case. And he said there would be -- just sort of the shock of it would have put him in an altered state of consciousness and then rendered him unconscious, that he could not have done all the things the blood shows he did -- standing up, crawling, moving around, and also grabbing the knife.

GRACE: Weigh in, Jean Casarez.

CASAREZ: You know, the only point the defense made was that when that shot went in, that it could have just jumped from a bone that it hit and then went straight into the cheek. But that defies logic because your brain is right there. And with the force of a gunshot, it`s going to go into that brain. But having it decompose for so many days gave -- gave Jodi Arias a big plus right there because there could be some doubt.

GRACE: Yes. Yes. Right. OK, let`s go back into the courtroom. Let`s hear it from the horse`s mother, the medical examiner on the stand.


MARTINEZ: And exhibit number 177, finally, what are we looking at there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s another view of the right hand showing the tip of the thumb, and there is an inside injury of the thumb.

MARTINEZ: And this would be right here, correct?


MARTINEZ: And is this something you termed previously as a defensive wound?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it`s consistent with that.

MARTINEZ: And what does that mean, to be a defensive wound?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That means that the decedent attempted to raise their hand and grab the weapon or was struck while it was being wielded against him.

MARTINEZ: But if the shot would been the first thing that happened, and there would have been a period of, let`s say, three seconds or maybe five seconds that went by, would Mr. Alexander have been conscious to be able to raise his right hand in a defensive posture?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t believe so, no.

MARTINEZ: Take a look at exhibit 178. What are we looking at there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s the back of the left hand.

MARTINEZ: And do we see any injuries there that could have been inflicted by a knife?


MARTINEZ: Exhibit number 179.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is another view of the back of the hand with the thumb extended.

MARTINEZ: What are these things here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those are sharp force injuries.

MARTINEZ: So those are injuries that we are beginning to look at, correct?


MARTINEZ: And exhibit 180 -- what do they show?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Incised or sharp force injuries of the palm and the edge of the thumb.

MARTINEZ: And again, you termed these defensive wounds previously, correct?


MARTINEZ: What does that mean in terms of the consciousness, whether or not Mr. Alexander was conscious at the time that these were inflicted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it`s a purposeful action, so he`d have to get his hands up and try to grab the knife, and with the head wound, I don`t think that`s possible.

MARTINEZ: It isn`t possible if the gunshot was the first thing, correct?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Objection, leading.


MARTINEZ: If the gunshot were the first injury, would it be possible to have these type of injuries on his hand?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t believe so.

MARTINEZ: Then we take a look at exhibit number 182. What are we looking at there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is the lateral edge of the left hand, again showing the incised injuries, very deep incised injuries at the back of the thumb.

MARTINEZ: And exhibit 183?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a close-up view of the incised wound to the back of the thumb.

MARTINEZ: Are these also these defensive wounds that you previously talked about?




JENNIFER WILMOTT, ARIAS`S ATTORNEY: She remembers shooting him, shooting Mr. Alexander, right?


MARTINEZ: ... be cognizant of his surrounding, such that he would have been able to attempt to defend himself?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t believe so, no.

MARTINEZ: Why not?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, because of the injury to the brain.

WILMOTT: But you also tell us in your report that there was no damage that you can see in the brain.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s right, because of decomposition.

ARIAS: He got very angry, stepped out of the shower. He lifted me up from the crouched position and he body-slammed me.

MARTINEZ: Would Mr. Alexander have had the mental capacity to move his hands and attempt to grab at anything that was coming towards him?


WILMOTT: Basically, you`re hypothesizing, aren`t you, because the holes in the skull, you`re guessing that the bullet went through the brain, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It had to have gone through the brain. It`s simple geometry.


GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. We`re going to take you straight back into the courtroom.

Joining me right now, a very special guest out of Phoenix is Linda Ballard Ross. (sic) She was heavily involved with Travis Alexander. They were in love. And this is the woman that Travis Alexander planned to marry. Linda, thank you for joining us.

LINDA BALLARD BOSS, ALEXANDER`S FORMER GIRLFRIEND: Thank you. Hey, my last name is actually Boss, like who`s the boss.

GRACE: Oh, thank you so much.

BOSS: B as in boy. Yes.

GRACE: Thank you, Linda. Linda, as you are hearing all this testimony and you`re hearing the way things were unfolding in the courtroom, I know it must be extremely disturbing. My question is, do you recall when you first learned Travis was dead?

BOSS: I do. I learned about it just days after they discovered the body. News had traveled through the grapevine of Travis`s friends, and my sister actually called me while I was at work. I was working in an office in Phoenix. And I just started crying there in my cubicle. And my sister had told me that he was found in his shower and that foul play was suspected. And I thought, Who could possibly want to injure Travis?

GRACE: With me is Linda Ballard Boss, who was heavily involved with Travis, very much in love, the two of them were. And this is the woman that Travis actually planned to marry, bought her an engagement ring, the very same ring that Jodi Arias later stole from his home. All this time, Travis had kept that ring, the ring he planned to give to Linda.

Linda, I have so many questions. My first question is to hear your description of Travis Alexander because we`ve heard such horrible, horrible facts or stories about him that I frankly do not believe. I do not believe he was a pedophile. I don`t believe he beat Jodi Arias. I don`t believe he threatened her and mistreated her. I don`t believe any of that.

BOSS: I agree. I don`t believe any of that, either. I think that Jodi has told a lot of lies. And I -- the Travis that I knew was kind and loving and he never abused me. And he, in fact, treated me very kindly. He was always doing nice things for me, like, he gave me flowers.

GRACE: Is this true...

BOSS: Sometimes he would pick flowers for me.

GRACE: ... he wrote you a beautiful people? He wrote you a poem? Do you have that with you? Do you mind reading it for us?

BOSS: Yes, he wrote this poem. This was right after we -- we started to break up, but we were still dating on and off. So he wrote me a poem called "All the Best," and here it is.

"Although we are uncertain as to what you and I will be, I wish you all the best, and through time I guess we`ll see. Although we don`t know what tomorrow brings, of our future we are unaware, I wish you all the best even if tomorrow I am not there. May your life be filled with happiness and may all of your dreams come true. May your heart never be left -- never feel sorrow and may your countenance never be blue."

"May all of your goals be accomplished, in all that you do, you succeed. May your heart never be left wanting and your soul never left in need. May the strength of the Lord be with you, and the holy ghost always be near. May his love burn from within you and radiate to all you hold dear. Why? Because you deserve it. All this and much more too. I wish you all the best, and only all the best will do."

"This is the life that I know you will have. I am certain. I know that you can. This is the life that I pray for me, and so I will finish as I have began. Although we are uncertain as to what you and I will be, I wish you all the best and hope all the best is me."


GRACE: Welcome back everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. We are live, camped out at the Phoenix courthouse. What a day in the courtroom today! First, let`s unleash the lawyers, Jeff Gold joining me in Phoenix, Arizona. Marla Chicotsky also with us.

You know, it`s very, very hard, Marla, to argue with the medical examiner.

MARLA CHICOTSKY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, Nancy, it`s definitely a difficult fit to argue with any medical examiner. However, this medical examiner is very interesting. When he would answer, he would say, I believe so, and then follow up with why. But any term such as "I believe" is not definite, and if there is any room for reasonable doubt in a criminal case, any criminal defense attorney will jump...

GRACE: You`re kidding, right?

CHICOTSKY: ... onto that.

GRACE: Because he said, Did he get the bullet to the head first or second, and he says, Blah, blah, I believe so. You actually see that as a problem. All right.

What I see as a problem, Jeff Gold, is Jodi Arias sitting there, acting like -- she was pretending that she still cares about those photos, when she`s the one that did it all.

JEFF GOLD, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you`re probably right about that, Nancy. But you know, this whole gunshot first or gunshot last is a problem for the state. Their ME says it happened last. Great. OK If I`m the defense attorney, I`m saying that`s great because if she didn`t bring the gun to kill him, then she didn`t have premeditation.



MARTINEZ: Did you lie to the detective, yes or no?


I was nowhere near Mesa. I was nowhere near Phoenix. The last time I had any kind of sexual contact with Travis was in April.

I didn`t kill Travis. I just didn`t.

I did not take his life.

MARTINEZ: Did you lie to "48 Hours"?


It was the scariest experience of my life. It just was so unreal. I witnessed Travis being attacked by two other individuals. They know where I live. And they know where my family is.

MARTINEZ: Did you like the people in Utah?

ARIAS: Yes. Everywhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you`ve never seen this camera -- this new camera?

ARIAS: I don`t know, he described it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever touch his camera?

ARIAS: I have never seen it.

MARTINEZ: When he was in the shower, you began to snap photographs of him. Correct?

ARIAS: Yes, it slipped out of my hand.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander?

ARIAS: Absolutely not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander on June 4th, 2008?

ARIAS: Yes, I did.


GRACE: Welcome back, everyone.

Straight back to the woman joining us tonight, that Travis Alexander planned to marry, Linda Ballard Boss.

Linda, what is your reaction when you learned that all this time after you had broken it off with Travis, he kept that ring all this time. And then it was actually stolen by Jodi Arias. And the jury has a misconception, I`m afraid, because it wasn`t clarified in court that it was your engagement ring, intended for you that she stole. They think, I believe, that she stole a ring belonging to Travis, like a man`s ring. They don`t realize that she stole this ring, knowing full well it was the ring he intended to give you.

LINDA BALLARD BOSS, TRAVIS` EX-GIRLFRIEND, PLANNED TO MARRY: Yes, I - - I remember when he bought that ring. I wasn`t there when he bought it. I knew he was planning on proposing to me. We were talking very seriously about marriage. And we thought about getting married in February of 2002. So I think it was January that he bought the ring for me.

And I actually started to have doubts about whether I wanted to continue the relationship. And I broke off our relationship before he had the chance to propose. But that ring --


GRACE: What was your doubt, may I ask? What was your doubts?

BOSS: Yes. Please ask. I actually was very in love with Travis. And so it was the hardest thing, one of the hardest things I ever had to do was to break up with him. But I was praying a lot about whether or not I should marry him. And I just didn`t feel like it was right. I didn`t feel like he was the right man for me. Even though he was a wonderful man and I loved him. I was also very young at the time. I was 20 years old then and I felt --


GRACE: Did it have something to do with Pre-Paid Legal?

BOSS: Well, I know that that was mentioned on your show. And you know, it is true that I was not as gung-ho about Pre-Paid Legal as he was. I was a little uncomfortable with multi-level marketing because I was uncomfortable with trying to sell it to all of my friends. And so I didn`t know if I could be the most supportive wife that he really wanted me to be.

GRACE: You know what, Linda, let me say, Linda -- with me is the woman Travis planned to marry.

You`re saying that you didn`t want to try to sell Pre-Paid to your friends. You know what? I`m so glad my whole legal career I was a public servant. I would rather try a murder case, all right, a child molester, you know, arson, bank robbery rather than go and try to solicit business. I don`t know, that`s just -- that`s not what I wanted to do. I didn`t want to be an ambulance chaser, I didn`t want to put out an ad. I went to law school specifically to represent crime victims.

I get it. I mean, what do you call your friend and go hey, if you ordered Pre-Paid Legal, I completely get it. I know that that started it between you guys. The issue. But he never really quit loving you, I don`t think -- he held onto that ring all these years. And I know even at the end had a very tender spot for you.

As a matter of fact, you two were in touch up until the very end. Didn`t you speak with him after he had begun -- begin dating Jodi Arias?

BOSS: Yes. The last time that I remember seeing Travis was in October of 2006. I invited him to go with me to the Arizona State Fair because I knew that he really liked roller coasters. And so do I. And so we rode a lot of rides together. And I think it was on that occasion that he mentioned Jodi to me. He said he dated a girl. He`d been dating a girl named Jodi.

And he mentioned to me that she is a pathological liar, and he actually told me a little story about something that she lied about, and unlike Jodi, I don`t remember a lot of details about the past, but I do remember that it had something to do with an ex-boyfriend of hers and some lies that she had told to Travis regarding her ex-boyfriend.

GRACE: OK, that is so incredibly eerie that he actually told you that Jodi Arias is a pathological liar. And then the defense is asking this jury to believe everything that she`s saying, to bite hook, line and sinker. And just -- you know, I never got the opportunity to meet Travis as you did, but from what I do know about him I think it`s a disgrace the way that he has been maligned.

And the picture you painted -- and you were with him for a pretty good while. You guys were together a long time to the point that he bought you an engagement ring. And none of this was ever exhibited. These awful things that she`s saying that is true were ever exhibited to you, were they, Linda?

BOSS: No, not at all. He never showed any anger. He didn`t have a big temper. He really did use humor a lot. He laughed, he was a happy go lucky kind of guy. He liked to make me laugh all the time.



MARTINEZ: The laptop belonging to Mr. Alexander on June 4th, 2008, in the early morning hours, do you remember that?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Videos, electronic, there were people dancing around, right?


MARTINEZ: And there was something there about heart attacks stronger, do you remember that?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People dancing with boxes on their heads, something similar to that?

MARTINEZ: Does the video depict any women or the female form in any way, shape or form, nude?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it does not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were asked a minute ago were those -- if they involved nude women of any type? You recall being asked that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Like boxes on their heads, something on their heads, and one of them was actually sped up really fast. People were just making fun of the videos themselves.


GRACE: OK, we are live, we`re camped outside the courthouse bringing you the latest and taking your calls. You`ve heard what the medical examiner said about how the murder went down. He says there is no way Travis Alexander could stand, much less walk, after taking a gunshot to the head. Through the frontal lobe.

Now listen to what Jodi Arias told the jury.


ARIAS: I grabbed the gun. I ran out of the closet. He was chasing me. I turned around, we were in the middle of the bathroom. I pointed it at him with both of my hands. I thought that would stop him. If he were pointing a gun at me I would stop. But he just kept running -- he got -- like a linebacker, he got kind of low and grabbed my waist, before he did that, he was lunging at me, the gun went off. I didn`t mean to shoot him or anything.

I didn`t even think I was holding the trigger. I was just pointing it all him. And I didn`t even know that I shot him. It just went off. And he was -- he lunged at me and we fell really hard against the tile toward the other walls. Like kind of near the -- scales or whatever those things are.

At this point I didn`t even know that if he had been shot. I didn`t see anything different. He was just -- we were struggling and wrestling. And he is a wrestler. He had wrestled in high school. And he was getting on top of me. And I didn`t want him to get on top of me, because when he had done that in the past I can`t get out of those holds that he gets. So he is grabbing at my clothes. And I got up. And he is just screaming angry.

And after I had broke away from him, he -- he said (EXPLETIVE DELETED), kill you, bitch. Well, after the gun went off, I thought, crap, because now he`s really going to be pissed. I didn`t know that I shot him. I thought I shot a hole in the wall or something, and I`m thinking he`s really going to be pissed at me now. Now he`s tell me he`s going to kill me and I think I -- after he said that, he had always told me before.


GRACE: Matt Zarrell, studying the case very carefully, what were the words she claimed Travis said to her after she shoots him in the frontal lobe of the brain?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Well, you heard Arias` testimony there, Nancy, that after the gunshot, Travis yells, f-ing kill you, bitch. And then Arias ran down the hallway. This goes, Nancy, if the statement was true then Arias has the right to feel -- fear for her life but the problem is that the medical examiner said Travis would not have been able to verbalize, period. He would not have been able to talk after the gunshot. So that statement could not have happened.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Michelle in Wyoming. Hi, Michelle, what`s your question?

Elizabeth in North Carolina. Hi, Elizabeth. What`s your question?


GRACE: I`m good.

ELIZABETH: I just want -- I wanted to just make a question about the camera. Is it possible that everybody`s wondering how it got in the washing machine. Isn`t it possible that when she was scooping up all the bloody clothes to throw them in the washing machine, the camera was inside the clothes?

GRACE: Elizabeth, I`ve wondered that same exact thing myself. One thing, though, Jean, that makes me pause is she very methodically deleted certain photos. Not all of them, but certain ones. And each one, to delete one photo is a five-step process. So she went through a lot of meticulous deletion on the camera, which makes it hard to believe she then threw it onto the sheets and then accidentally put it in the washer.

JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Definitely it could have gone that way. She took so many things with her, though, and disposed of them elsewhere. Maybe she thought that since it was Travis` camera it would look better if it was kept, and it went through the wash cycle, photos are deleted, and therefore there would be no incriminating evidence to show she was there.

GRACE: Joining me right now, psychoanalyst and author of "Dealbreakers," Bethany Marshall out of L.A.

Bethany, we were just showing the jury -- excuse me, just showing the viewers in plain view of the jury, Jodi Arias looking at the video, number one, of her head in Travis` lap. There goes the crazy eyes. There they are. What`s that all about, Bethany?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": You know, Nancy, have you noticed that the further this trial progresses, the more slack her facial expression becomes? It`s like she`s trying to pretend that she`s innocent. And there, that video you`re rolling right now where she`s crying, she tries to pretend that she really cares about this heinous thing she did.

You know, in her testimony where he called her the f-ing B-I-T-C-H so said --

GRACE: It`s bitch, Bethany.

MARSHALL: She makes him sound like the -- OK. I can`t -- I can`t bear to say it because --

GRACE: I`ll say it for you, Beth.

MARSHALL: It`s too -- thank you. Because she`s really maligning him. When you think about the fact that she essentially liquefied his brain and yet she makes him sound like a cross between, you know, the Incredible Hulk and Freddie Krueger? It`s so heinous and horrible.

I wish Linda Boss` poem could have been read in court. That was not the type of poem that an abuser would have written, because in the poem he essentially says that he -- he`ll be happy for Linda even if their paths part. Even if she has a separate life he wishes the best for her. Have you ever known an abuser to express that sentiment, Nancy?



MARSHALL: They don`t talk like that.

GRACE: I want to go back to Linda Ballard Boss, the -- the woman that Travis planned to marry.

Linda, was he romantic? Was he loving? Sweet to you? Would he do romantic gestures or sweet things?

BOSS: Yes. He did some really sweet things for me. I found love notes from him that he would place like on my windshield wiper of my car sometimes. And I found flowers that he would surprise me with. On my doorsteps sometimes. Or one time he made a really delicious dinner for me, just from scratch. He even made cookies for me once. And so he would pick wildflowers from the side of the road if we were on a walk and give them -- give me a little bouquet. So he was very, very kind and very sweet to me.



MARTINEZ: That show what happened when you put your hand on the shelf.


MARTINEZ: And this is what happened.


MARTINEZ: What were we looking at here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I took a measurement at the top of the shelf and it was approximately seven feet high.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just like, I`ll make up anything to save my life.

MARTINEZ: Any indications that the gun had ever been there, for example, were there any spare bullets of any caliber found throughout the house?



GRACE: Welcome back. We are taking your calls. Out to Vickie. Hi, Vickie, what`s your question.

VICKIE, CALLER: Hi. A quick comment. I think Jodi`s looks at the table today were more of my ship has sunk. But my question is, when Mr. Martinez was questioning the woman about buying gas in Utah, isn`t that going to be a little confusing to the jurors about, you know, why is he trying to prove that she was filling gas cans in Utah when she says that she got them to save money on gas? Doesn`t that kind of go along to what Jodi had said in the first place?

I`m confused why he`s focusing on that.

GRACE: I want Beth Karas to answer that. And also isn`t it true when the judge stated that we`re nearing the end of the trial, Arias started crying in court?

BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION: She did seem to get a little bit emotional. She did seem to look a little unhappy. But to answer the caller`s question, yes. It does support Jodi Arias` position that she wanted the gas cans to buy gas out of state, and that`s probably exactly what she did on June 6th at 4:00 in the morning. Filling three cans with enough gas to get home cheaply to the border with Oregon where Yreka is.

But before that, she said she had only two gas cans, not three. And that she had returned one of them. She did not want to stop in the state of Arizona at all for gas. She needed to get in and out without stopping and having a cash or credit card transaction at a gas station or a video camera picking her up.

And she also lied to the jury. She looked them in the face and said I bought a third gas can and I returned it to the same Wal-Mart in Salinas on June 3rd.


GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Staff Sergeant Casey Grochowiak, 34, San Diego, California, Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Commendation medal, parents Edward and Barbara, brother Eric, sister Carrie, widow, high school sweetheart, Celestina, children Matia and Deegan.

Casey Grochowiak, American hero.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you feel like you deserve to live with those memories?

ARIAS: Because they were my actions and it`s my responsibility.

MARTINEZ: You did have the knife in your hand, right?


MARTINEZ: It was after the shooting, according to you, right?


GRACE: We saw what happens with Martinez in court with the medical examiner. We compare it to Jodi Arias. Now what did the jury think about the wounds?

Listen to the jury questions.


JUDGE SHERRY STEPHENS, MARICOPA COUNTY SUPERIOR COURT: Jodi stated she shot Travis in the middle of the bathroom. If that were true and he would have started bleeding from his nose and mouth, wouldn`t there have been blood found in the middle of the bathroom floor?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Normally if you`re shot in the brain there`s going to be blood associated with that. There would be bleeding where the injury occurred. I would expect that, yes.

STEPHENS: Is it possible you could be wrong about Travis being able to ambulate for only a few seconds after the gun shot?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t believe so, no.

STEPHENS: Can you explain what could happen to cause a different outcome?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t understand the question.

STEPHENS: What could happen that could allow Travis to still move well and for a longer length of time?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If the bullet had not passed through his brain, that could change the outcome.

STEPHENS: Can you explain why you think Travis was still alive when his throat was cut?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because of the large amount of hemorrhage into the soft tissue around the throat wounds. That requires a beating heart.

STEPHENS: How frequently have you seen injuries with a 25 caliber weapon?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably at least a hundred, 200 times.


GRACE: Everyone, testimony is over for the day. The jury has been released.

Dr. Drew is up next, everyone. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.