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Nancy Grace
Court Postponed, Jodi in Psych Ward
Aired May 09, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED OF MURDER: (INAUDIBLE) there was blood on my hands.
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: You`re the person who actually slit Travis Alexander`s throat from ear to ear.
ARIAS: Yes!
MARTINEZ: That you`re the individual that stabbed him in the upper torso.
ARIAS: Yes!
(INAUDIBLE) my actions (INAUDIBLE) my responsibility (INAUDIBLE)
(INAUDIBLE) your makeup, Jodi girl.
Smile. Say cheese.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The jury will (INAUDIBLE) That`s not for me to decide.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As to count one, first degree murder, guilty.
ARIAS: (INAUDIBLE) the ultimate judge (INAUDIBLE)
Definitely innocent of pre-planning (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... first degree murder, guilty.
ARIAS: I will (ph) be the only person that will ever be able to say what happened that day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. After months of testimony, days of deliberation, the jury hands down a verdict in the Jodi Arias murder one trial, Arias guilty, murder one.
And just minutes after Arias convicted, she plops right down in front of lights and cameras to tell a sob story, a sob story about how she`s the victim, attacks the prosecutor, Martinez, me, even trashes Travis Alexander`s family and Alexander himself, dead in the grave.
We are now in aggravation phase leading to sentencing. The choices, life or death. In the last hours, Jodi Arias moved to the Lower Buckeye psych unit where she is getting special treatment. But why?
Straight out to Jean Casarez. She`s there at Lower Buckeye jail. Jean, what`s happening?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, Nancy, we`ve been able to confirm that the sheriff himself, Joe Arpaio, made the decision to commit Jodi Arias in the facility behind me, in the psych ward. This is the Lower Buckeye jail. In Maricopa County, there is only one facility that has a psych ward, and this is it.
And what we understand is that Joe Arpaio believed that she seriously could be considering suicide and determined for her safety, that she would be committed here. Now, we are understanding that she...
GRACE: Whoa! Wait, wait...
CASAREZ: ... is being monitored...
GRACE: ... wait, wait, wait! Wait! Wait! Jodi Arias says one more time -- she`s been saying this every time she gets in trouble or has some drama in her life since what, the 9th grade? She said she`s going to commit suicide. Now, what makes Arpaio think that, that interview she gave a few moments after she was found guilty...
CASAREZ: The words...
GRACE: ... where she wanted...
CASAREZ: The words, the words she gave in the interview, he believed, raised a red flag and a reality because it is the acts of someone, the demeanor of someone or the words of someone that get one put in the psych facility. And it was that interview. He made that decision.
And doctors and nurses are monitoring her around the clock. They are evaluating her, talking to her, listening to her, interviewing her and having discussions right now with her as we speak.
GRACE: So right now, Jodi Arias is housed behind you in a psych unit. And all of this has happened -- she`s gotten out of Estrella jail and now she`s in Lower Buckeye. You know, it was just last year, 2012, an inmate got out of Lower Buckeye. He escaped from the psych unit, crawling through the ceiling panel, and was found in downtown Phoenix. Oh, yes, the security is much, much more lax there.
Take a listen to what Jodi Arias said that may have brought around -- brought about her being transferred out of Estrella jail into a cushier location.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you focusing on the court, or are you focusing on what could be the worst outcome for you?
ARIAS: Well, the worst outcome for me would be natural life. I would much rather die sooner than later. Longevity runs in my family, and I don`t want to spend the rest of my natural life in one place.
You know, I`m pretty healthy. I don`t smoke. And I would probably live a long time. So that`s not something I`m looking forward to. I said years ago that I would rather get death than life, and that still is true today. I believe death is the ultimate freedom, so I`d rather just have my freedom as soon as I can get it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you`re saying you actually prefer getting the death penalty to being in prison for life?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... prefer getting the death penalty to being in prison for life?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
ARIAS: I think that if you look at things eternally, it`s not as scary. I mean, we do get attached to lives, and I`m attached to mine. But I don`t know. I just -- I can`t fathom staying in one spot for the rest of my life. I`ve been (ph) everywhere (ph), and I think it would just drive me a little crazy. I`m not really looking forward to what comes next, but...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
ARIAS: Well -- I just -- it`s just more court. It just keeps going on and on. And I just want to get it over with.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You are hearing an interview from KSAZ just moments after Jodi is found guilty after murder one. She literally, Jean, got up out of the chair after she was getting weepy, looking at each juror as they were polled, like she was exerting some kind of mind control over them -- You will reverse your verdict! It didn`t work.
Each one was polled individually. She got out, walked out of the door, and basically, plopped down in front of lights and camera and gave this interview.
Now Jean, I was -- I heard reports that there were heated exchanges between her and her lawyers. It had to be over not doing this interview.
CASAREZ: Well, we`ve heard the same thing, and that is what is being talked around, around the legal community here today. One thing, though. What I was told -- and I can confirm through Sergeant Brandon Jones (ph) of the Maricopa County sheriff`s department -- she is not classified as a 918. In other words, she is not crazy. She is not having hallucinations. She is not hearing voices. And because of that, Nancy, she can have her family visit her, of course, as well as her lawyers.
GRACE: OK, now let me get this straight. So she`s managed to get herself transferred out of Estrella to Lower Buckeye, where it`s much cushier for her. So she`s claiming she`s suicidal, so she`s crazy, but just a little bit crazy? I thought that was like being pregnant, either you are or you`re not.
CASAREZ: No, I...
GRACE: You can`t be a little bit crazy.
CASAREZ: I did not say she`s...
GRACE: You can`t be a little bit crazy!
CASAREZ: I did not say she`s claiming she`s crazy. I confirmed she wasn`t having hallucinations or hearing voices. I mean, how bad is she? That`s what I wanted to know. And the response I got she is not a 918, which is crazy. And so because of that, her family can visit her.
I think that`s an important distinction here. They would not tell me if she`s on medication, if she`s been put on medication. But they said there is no minimum, there`s no maximum amount of time. The doctors and nurses that are monitoring her make that decision when she goes back to Estrella.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Susan Moss, victims` rights advocate and lawyer out of New York, Jeff Jacobson, defense attorney joining me here at the Phoenix courthouse, Richard Herman, renowned defense attorney joining me tonight out of Vegas, "sin city."
All right, let me go to you first, Susan Moss. So she says the magic words, I don`t want to live. So she gets transferred out of Estrella to a much nicer facility, where she`s not quite a 918. She`s not in a padded cell. She can see her family and have visitors and even have her own TV in her room. But yet she`s still in a psych ward. Help me out.
SUSAN MOSS, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Oh, she`s not killing herself in that zoo unless it`s on pay-per-view! This woman is calculating! She knows exactly what she`s doing! She did this so that she can get out of the inevitable, which was a quick aggravated circumstances hearing, a quick penalty hearing, and then she`s going to go to the death penalty!
GRACE: And here`S the other crazy part, Jeff Jacobson. This jury is never going to know the hold-up. Now, we`ve heard that the medical examiner cannot be available until a certain date. But also, now you`ve got Arias jumping up, claiming she wants to kill herself.
Where this is headed is incompetency to stand trial. I guarantee you -- you know, she keeps spouting off, That`s the law, this is the law, that`s the legal definition -- what? So bottom line is I guarantee you she`s working her way toward trying not competent to stand trial, which means everything stops, comes to a screeching halt so she gets reevaluated. What about it?
JEFF JACOBSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I actually think that this 45-minute disaster of an interview is not coming in during the penalty phase. I think it`s not relevant to mitigation. It`s not relevant to whether or not the crime was cruel.
GRACE: Oh, I disagree.
JACOBSON: I don`t think the jury is ever going to hear this. And so I don`t think it`s this -- this major disaster for Jodi, other than the fact it`s created...
GRACE: Well, let me test your knowledge...
JACOBSON: ... some real conflict with her lawyers.
GRACE: ... Jeff Jacobson. Let me test your knowledge on something. I agree with you that this particular interview will not come in under any circumstances during the aggravation phase, where the sole purpose of the jury finding is to determine, was this murder committed in a cruel fashion? The answer will be either proven or unproven.
But if it is proven, we then move to the penalty phase, sentencing. And it is my thought that this interview can come in there to show, even after she is convicted of murder one, she`s trashing Martinez, she`s trashing Travis`s family, me, she`s even trashing Travis himself.
You don`t think that that shows her frame of mind? She`s not remorseful, Jeff Jacobson.
JACOBSON: It`s about mitigation, Nancy. The defense puts on its case to show whether or not there should be mitigation of the death penalty. And this video is not relevant to that.
And I`ll tell you something else. Juan Martinez has got to be careful here about cross-examination during mitigation because he doesn`t want to create an appellate record on this. He doesn`t want to create an issue for appeal.
GRACE: Hey...
JACOBSON: So if he can...
GRACE: OK, you know what?
JACOBSON: ... keep himself...
GRACE: ... Richard Herman, take off your defense hat...
JACOBSON: ... restrained on that...
GRACE: ... for just a moment and let`s try to get a grip on ourselves here. This is not Martinez`s doing. I don`t think this is the defense lawyers` doing, either. This is Ms. Jodi Ann Arias`s doing. She did this all on her own, I beg (ph) you, over her lawyers` objections. And the prosecutor absolutely can bring it in in the third phase of this trial, if we get that far.
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: At the mitigation stage, it will get there. It will be brought in, Nancy. And you`re right. But these attorneys got to go to the judge right now. This is def con stage 5 for them. They have to try to get out of this case. They have to say she`s not listening...
GRACE: Wait a minute!
HERMAN: ... to them.
GRACE: Put Richard Herman back up.
HERMAN: They`re not communicating. They`re not taking advice. She`s out control...
GRACE: Richard Herman...
HERMAN: ... right now...
GRACE: ... what are you doing...
HERMAN: I`ve never seen someone...
GRACE: ... with a tan?
HERMAN: ... do an interview...
GRACE: I want you back...
HERMAN: With a what?
GRACE: ... in the law library, researching and working. You don`t need to be laying out in the sun vacationing, while we`re all here at the courthouse. But I do agree with you, this is absolutely...
HERMAN: Make-up man (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: ... can come in...
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: ... can come in, in this final phase. Let me get back to Jean. Guys, somehow, overnight, I don`t know how this happened, Arias goes from a murder one conviction to a highly publicized TV interview, and somehow manages to get herself transferred to Lower Buckeye, where she is in a much, much nicer facility on a psych ward.
Jean, I`m not quite sure how the whole thing happened. But has her family been there to see her? I understand she doesn`t have a roommate. What`s it like in there?
CASAREZ: Well, we`ve been here for a while and we have not seen her family come. What I was told by Sergeant Brandon Jones was that her cell is really the identical type of cell as she had at Estrella. She is by herself. She is allowed out for exercise. And her personal belongings that she was able to bring with her -- that is the norm.
Now, sometimes, they are secured, so an inmate cannot be around their personal belongings. But he believes that Jodi Arias does have her personal belongings tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In order to facilitate these kind of -- this kind of grouping of injuries, this would have to occur very, very quickly. You would have to have the individual in kind of a subdued position. He had to be stationary and contained in one spot to get that tight of a cluster. So it`s, like, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba.
When he was struck here, the doctor makes note of the fact that these are kind of obliquely struck. In other words, they`re more like glancing blows, if you will, and they just kind of bounce off of the scalp. But they hit with enough impact to actually split the scalp open.
The two injuries that Dr. Horne (ph) refers to with the most significance are both the right jugular vein and the right carotid artery, which are major blood supplies. And the knife went -- or the sharp injury -- sharp force injury went deep enough to compromise both of those vessels and cut across his windpipe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. For those of you just joining us, we are here at the courthouse. The case has moved into the aggravation phase. That is the second phase of an Arizona death penalty case. The first phase is the longest phase. That is the guilt/innocence phase. That lasted for months on end.
We expect the next phase after that murder one conviction yesterday, the aggravation phase. In every jurisdiction that has the death penalty, there are aggravating factors, like a person that shoots a cop, that shoots a public figure, that commits a murder behind bars, that is on active parole for another felony and commits a murder, for mass murder, which is more than one body.
Long story short, one of those aggravating circumstances is cruel and heinous or depraved manner of death. The state`s going forward on that circumstance. If they can get this jury to say that cruelty in the manner is proven, we will go on to the next phase, where this jury will decide life or death.
Take a look at what just happened in the courtroom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Arizona versus Jodi Ann Arias, verdict, count one. We the jury, duly empaneled and sworn, in the above entitled action, upon our oaths do find the defendant as to count one, first degree murder, guilty. Five jurors find premeditated. Zero find felony murder. Seven find both premeditated and felony. Signed, foreperson.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is this your true verdict, so say you one and all? Juror number one, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number two, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number three, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number four, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number six, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number seven, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number nine, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number 12, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number 13, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number 14, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number 16, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number 18, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s what went down in the courthouse just behind me. And just moments, moments after that guilty verdict was read, Jodi Arias plops down in front of lights and camera and gives an interview over, I`m sure, the objections of her lawyers.
Liz, do you have that sound ready? In this interview, she trashes everybody from snide comments about Travis`s family to the prosecutor, Martinez, to me, even slamming Travis Alexander, dead in the grave, calling him a hypocrite.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What were you thinking (INAUDIBLE)
ARIAS: I probably shouldn`t say. There were a lot of times when he was beating up on other witnesses, more like attacking the messenger rather than the message. And I just wanted to be able to jump into their body and respond for them just because I feel like he is a bully.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I actually kind of expected you, when he would go after you like that, to shrink away or cry or be (INAUDIBLE) But instead, you did step up to him.
ARIAS: Yes. I think that if it had been any sooner -- the trial did take a long time to finally get here. If it had been any sooner, I would have melted. I would have just fallen apart. But my confidence came on the stand from knowing that I`m up there and I`m ready to speak the truth. And I know that I was -- I know what happened. And that gave me a sense of inner strength to handle him. He can throw whatever curveballs he wants, I know what happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So Arias goes from calling Martinez a bully to claiming he has shady acts, which is basically inappropriate behavior in the courtroom. That`s an interview from KSAZ, and it was just moments after Arias was found guilty of murder one. And that`s the tip of the iceberg.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: This says it all. Jodi Arias, guilty, murder in the first degree. All court watchers agree that anything less than murder one would be a defeat. With 29 stab wounds and a shot to the head? Come on! Please! Thank the Lord this jury deliberated and got it straight. But now we`re in the aggravation phase.
Beth Karas, what do you expect to come into court?
BETH KARAS, "IN SESSION": You know, I think it`s going to be actually very brief -- opening statements, one witness, the medical examiner, closing arguments and the deliberation, proven or not proven, this one aggravator of cruelty.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ARIAS: Other than arguments, no anger issues that I can remember.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stab wound to the heart.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His throat was slit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His body was dragged to the shower and he`s shot in the head along the way.
ARIAS: As far as making comparison of physical injuries, him versus mine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) neck wound from ear to ear. His face was dark purple, almost black. The rest of his body was a very pale white, and he was kind of crammed in the bottom of the shower stall.
ARIAS: I wouldn`t even hurt spiders.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Do you agree that you came away rather unscathed?"
ARIAS: Yes, I would have to say that`s a relatively accurate assessment.
I`m all for the 10 Commandments, Thou shall not kill.
MARTINEZ: The first hit, if you will, was to the heart area, and he was walking around. He was grabbing the knife. He was trying to defend himself.
ARIAS: I would be shaking in my boots right now if I had to answer to God for such a heinous crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Breaking news right now, Jodi Arias in the last hours committed to a psych ward. Now how is it that she goes psych immediately after she is convicted of murder one? When she managed to testify for 18 straight days with plenty of wherewithal on the stand.
Straight out to Lower Buckeye Jail, psych facility, standing by, Jean Casarez.
Jean, I`m not sure exactly what happened in the last 24 hours from the time she was convicted -- I mean, to the time she was convicted to the time she sat down and gave that interview where she trashed everybody from Travis Alexander, himself, to me. To Martinez, to Travis`s family. You name it.
Did somehow, suddenly she is in a psych ward? You believe it`s because in that interview she claims she would rather be put to death than live behind bars?
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, I confirmed that Sergeant Joe Arpaio heard the interview, and because of the words of Jodi, and words are one of the qualifications that they then determined that you could be a risk to yourself. And he believed that she possibly could carry out in some form or fashion a plan to commit suicide. And so he himself had her committed to the facility behind me.
And in Maricopa County this is the only jail that has a psych ward. There are 225 beds in the psych ward. There are male and female inmates. They are segregated. But I am told that it is a jail -- almost identical to where she is -- has been in the Estrella Jail.
GRACE: Well, it`s my understanding that it`s a much better situation for her. Also that the security is a little bit different. Just last year a psych patient managed to escape from Lower Buckeye by just climbing through the roof and getting out and was wandering around down here visiting friends in Phoenix. OK?
So in my mind it`s a lot different from the jail that I went deep, deep, deep into with Arpaio. Somehow, Arias has maneuvered herself onto a psych ward, a psych ward where she can have her own TV in her room. Where she can visit family. She sees doctors, she sees lawyers. She has to go outside. She has to have physical training. All exercise time.
Nice, huh? You know kicked back in your -- in your bunk watching probably this show right now.
We are taking your calls, out to Marie in New York. Hi, Marie, what is your question?
MARIE, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: Hi, Nancy, and I`m so sorry for your loss. First of all, I think that she really wants us to look upon her as some kind of martyr, she wants to die. She`s being persecuted. But what I don`t understand is, you know, I hear all about hearsay and past crimes can`t be brought up because they will prejudice the jury.
Well, how can they just say that this man is a pedophile in open court with absolutely no proof, but her saying so? I just don`t understand how that is allowed in with -- you know, anything but her word.
GRACE: You know what? I, like you, was shocked that she did that. I mean, come on, she left the man dead, folded up. Naked in the bottom of a shower stall, just slashed to death. And then did the same thing essentially to his reputation. She can do it under our Constitution.
Out to Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, Radaronline.com.
Shortly after she`s convicted of murder one, you were in touch with Arias` friend, Donavan Bering, who has been doing her bidding, her tweeting at night. And I`ve taken the brunt of that several times. What`s the story on that?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, SENIOR REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: Well, Donavan told me that she, herself, pulled down the Twitter account. Everybody has been so angry that she`s been tweeting for Jodi from behind bars. In fact, they counted over 50,000 followers, but Donavan says she has taken it down but just for a few days. The account has not been suspended. And she says that it`s going to be up again soon. She also told me that she has spoken with Jodi and Jodi is, quote, "not well." She said that the family and Donavan, they`re very, very scared and sad about the verdict yesterday.
GRACE: Everyone, at the jail there, at Perryville, Jodi Arias on the psych ward. But it goes on in the courtroom. Even though she has been transferred to a psych ward right now. Plans are being made to go forward with the aggravation phase in this case.
Exactly what does it take, Matt Zarrell, to show the aggravating factor of cruelty? I have heard a lot of talking heads. And they really muddy the waters. It`s just really simple. First, the jury comes back with guilty or not guilty on murder one, murder one only, nothing else qualifies.
In this jurisdiction you`ve got to have the jury say that the state can prove one of the aggravating factors. For instance, you shoot a cop. Mass murder. Murder for hire, those are just some of the murders that qualify as the death penalty aggravating circumstance. One of them, cruel and depraved manner of death.
If the jury finds that in a very brief, mini trial probably lasting a couple of days. You move on, the same jury will render a sentence, life or death. But what does it take to show cruelty? Give me an idea, Matt Zarrell.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, part of it, and part of the reason they`re calling the medical examiner is to show that not only did Travis suffer a horrible death, but that he fought for his life, that he tried to get away. Including when he was at the sink, and he watched himself bleeding profusely. Tried to run down the hallway. And that is when Arias killed him by slicing his neck from ear to ear. And an important point the prosecutor will make with Dr. Horn is that Arias killed Travis Alexander three times over.
GRACE: Take a listen to what Arias had to say just minutes after she is convicted of murder one. Trashing Travis Alexander.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Talking about Twitter, was that your idea?
ARIAS: It just became sort of an idea that I thought of in February. And we decided to go for it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you happy you have?
ARIAS: Yes. Well, I wouldn`t say happy. I don`t regret it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. What has it brought to you?
ARIAS: I think there is a little bit of satisfaction gained from being able to just impart my ideas and my thoughts and sort of let people know where I`m coming from. Whoever wants to look. You don`t have to read it if you don`t like it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want to talk about Nancy?
ARIAS: I don`t think she is worth it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you still think about Travis?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In what way?
ARIAS: There is a lot of regret because I was really hoping to get a plea and avoid talking about all of the things that came out about him. If we had been able to avoid trial we could have avoided just the murkier aspects of his life that he kept hidden. And these aren`t just things that came from my mouth. They`re his own words, his own e-mails, his own text messages. The activities that he was up to, the photographs that show that as well.
None of that ever would have come to light. It would have just been forgotten and he would be memorialized as, not perfect, by any means, but somebody who was known to adhere to his morals and the principles that he espoused. But now the curtain has been drawn and you can see the hypocrisy, and everything that was there, and I regret that because I know that even though he was living the life of a hypocrite that`s not how he wanted to be perceived. And I think inside he really didn`t want to live that kind of life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of people had real issues with the pedophilia when that was brought up. How do you respond to that?
ARIAS: Well, again, I mean, he is fantasizing about having sex with a 12-year-old on the tape. That is a pedophile by definition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s not what he said on the tape. The tape that she made and probably hung over his head. You`re
seeing an interview from KSAZ, just moments after Arias was found guilty of murder one. She proceeds to thrash her murder victim.
I want to go out to Aaron Brehove, body language expert, author of "Track Body Language." What do you observe as the verdict was read? I know you`ve been watching Jodi Arias in court and during that interview.
AARON BREHOVE, VOICE ANALYSIS AND BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: I have, you see here she looks a little bit surprised. You see her go into the sadness, I think she was genuinely sad. I think it was a genuine emotion. Probably one of the few genuine emotions you see from her. Then you move over to the interview, and this is just ridiculous. Continues to pile it on, all these lies that she continues.
And then the one that -- one consistent thing she does is she continues to lie here. She continues to have no remorse, no remorse for what she has done. And dragged Travis through the dirt even more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury, duly empanelled and sworn in above entitled action upon our oath, do find the defendant as to count one, first-degree murder, guilty.
ARIAS: If I`m found guilty, I don`t have a life. God knows I`m innocent, Travis knows I`m innocent. I didn`t mean to shoot him or anything. I didn`t even think I was holding the trigger.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But is it wrong to want the perpetrator to get the needle?
ARIAS: If I killed Travis, I would beg for the death penalty. If I had my choice I would take the death penalty because I don`t want to spend the rest of my life in prison.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Right now, straight back to Jean Casarez, she is standing by. Jodi Arias in the Lower Buckeye Jail
Jean, what just happened?
CASAREZ: Well, while we were in commercial Jodi`s mother just walked into the jail. She was with her sister. She was much calmer today but you could tell she really wanted to get in that jail. I said, how is Jodi? She will not talk with a camera or a microphone but she did say to me, I don`t know, I haven`t seen her today.
So she is in the Lower Buckeye Jail right behind me. She went in, this is the visitor`s entrance. You stand in line and then you are allowed eventually to go in to see whoever you are here visiting.
Jodi once again is in the psych ward in this facility. I was told that her mother could come to visit her. Tonight her grandmother is not here. It is her mother, it is her aunt and they are inside this facility right here at the Lower Buckeye Jail.
GRACE: Everybody, Jean Casarez standing by live there at the jail.
Somehow overnight, nobody is quite sure exactly what happened but Arias managed to maneuver herself out of Estrella Jail into a much cushier facility, the psych ward at Lower Buckeye.
I want to go out to Dr. Bethany Marshall.
Dr. Bethany, I want to hear your analysis because think about it this is Mother`s Day coming up on Sunday. You know, I`m looking forward I think maybe the twins have made me some little craft at school. I can`t wait to get in on Sunday. There`ll be a big production. I can`t wait.
This mom, God help her, is going to see her daughter just convicted of murder one. And right after that conviction, plopping down and trashing everybody from me to Martinez to Travis` family to Travis himself.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": You know, Nancy, in order to understand all these behaviors that we`re talking about on the show tonight, the little gasp when the verdict was read. The suicide gesture, the interview, you have to see her as the true female sociopath she is, self-important, grandiose, feeling like a superior human being.
When she gives that interview, she imagines that she`s venerated, wise. The eyes of the world are upon her, she`s like a celebrity, a femme fetale. So think about her reaction when the verdict was read. It was trite, rehearsed and stereotyped. Like everyone wants to see how I upset I am. And then when she looks at the jurors one by one by one, she looks at them reproachfully.
As you said earlier, like she`s going to stare them down and get them to change their minds. Like her feelings is -- her feelings are hurt. How could you have done this to me? Then she goes on camera and shares -- she drops her precious little pearls of wisdom into everybody`s lapse. Her reflections on the trial, her thoughts about what everybody is thinking about it. What her future is.
And so if you put all that in context with this suicidal gesture, what is she doing? She is imagining that everybody would really care if she kills herself. She is imagining a collective -- horror gasp from the crowd. And that`s why she`s threatening to kill herself, to get attention.
GRACE: It is a repeated act, she`s done this over and over.
Beth Karas, as we move into aggravation phase, there is a hiccup today. But as we move in I know that the state is -- we believe planning to put on Dr. Horn, the medical examiner, to talk about the cruel nature of the murder. Is it possible, Beth, that the defense may put on their own doctor to say this was so fast he felt nothing?
BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION: Yes, it`s absolutely possible that they`ll call their own medical expert. We have no notice that they intend to do that. But it`s possible. There are still a little time for them to give notice of it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You said that no jury would convict you. You remember saying that?
ARIAS: Yes, I did say that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number one, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number two, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
ARIAS: I was very confident that no jury would convict me because I planned to be dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number six, is this your true verdict.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number seven, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number nine, is this your true verdict.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
ARIAS: Probably the most bitter words I`ll ever eat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: With me right now, a dear friend of Travis Alexander`s, Julie Haslem. She also knows Arias.
Julie, I`d like to hear -- you know both of these, the main players in this trial. What do you make of Arias` claim she wants death over life?
JULIE HASLEM, TRAVIS` FRIEND, KNOWS JODI ARIAS: Well, for me, I believe that it was reverse psychology. If Jodi wanted to kill herself, if she really wanted to die, she would have done that long ago. This is just a ploy, it`s reverse psychology saying please kill me, but really, she means give me life. Because she`s had a lot of time, she`s had five years to research this. She knows what that`s going to be like on death row. And it`s not a pretty sight when you`re a narcissist and you have no one there to say how beautiful you are and to manipulate.
GRACE: If you could see Arias right now, what would you say to her?
HASLEM: That`s a tough one. I don`t know that I`d actually say anything to her. What I really want to do, and I`m not a violent person, but I kind of just want to punch her in the head so --
GRACE: Well, how do you think that somehow overnight she managed to maneuver herself out of Estrella into Lower Buckeye? Into a psych ward?
HASLEM: Well, are you surprised by that, Nancy? This is Jodi Arias we`re talking about.
GRACE: No.
HASLEM: Right?
GRACE: No, actually I`m not surprised at all.
HASLEM: Of course. She`s going to do that. She knows that`s coming.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK. Back out to you, Jean Casarez, you`re standing by there. Jodi Arias in the Lower Buckeye. What is next? How many witnesses is the state going to call? What are they going to try to show in aggravation? I expect it to be very, very brief.
CASAREZ: True, and it is extreme cruelty that the state must show beyond a reasonable doubt. We understand, Dr. Horn, the medical examiner is going to be the witness, and of course he would be the one to show that after -- Travis was stabbed and he staggered over to the sink area.
And Nancy, that is a focal point for this aggravation phase because all of the blood, all of the splatter, all of the spitting out of his mouth and the mirror that he was able to watch that all in, that`s going to be the focal point of this extreme cruelty.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Staff Sergeant Kevin Kessler, 32, Canton, Ohio. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, seven Army Achievement medals, five Army Commendation medals, parents Chris and Larry, grandfather Ted, step parents, Sue and Rod, nine siblings.
Kevin Kessler, American hero.
And now back to our coverage of the Jodi Arias aggravation phase. As you all know, Arias convicted yesterday. And now breaking news, somehow in the last hours, Arias gets herself transferred to a psych ward where she can have a TV in her cell, gets to see her family, visitation hours much more lax, gets exercise, private cell.
Joining me right now, Jean Casarez.
Jean, you say her mother just went into the jail, uh-oh, hold on. Jean is down. You know, I`m hearing, Alexis Tereszcuk, her mom has just visited in there right now. Beth Karas also with us. What can you tell me?
KARAS: Well, you know, her mother, this is the first time she`s seen her today. So she saw her last night at Estrella Jail. And it was after last night`s visit that Jodi Arias was transported where she is now. So was not at this jail last night when her mom was there and Jean was there as well. So she saw her daughter for the first time after the verdict last night. And this is the first time since she`s been put on suicide watch and in the psych ward.
GRACE: And Beth, as you were talking, we just saw more Arias supporters, we believe, going into the jail to visit Arias there on the psych ward. You know, she certainly had all her wherewithal, Sue Moss, Jeff Jacobs and Richard Herman -- Sue Moss, when she gave that interview, trashing Travis Alexander, she didn`t seem to have a psychiatric problem then.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: Absolutely. She didn`t even have time to say boo-hoo before she`s giving an interview? Look, the one thing we all know is that Jodi knows how to kill. If she wanted to kill herself, she would have done it already.
GRACE: Tonight our thoughts with the Travis Alexander family as we head into aggravation phase. Court is over.
Dr. Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night. 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, goodnight, friend.
END
