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Nancy Grace
Arias Guilty of Aggravating Factor
Aired May 15, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Arizona versus Jodi Ann Arias, verdict, count one, aggravating factor, especially cruel. We the jury duly empaneled and sworn, in the above entitled action, upon our oaths do find that the aggravating factor, especially cruel, has been proven. Signed, foreperson.
Is this your true verdict, so say you one and all?
JURY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ladies and gentlemen, the clerk will ask each of you a question. Please answer yes or no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number one, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number two, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number three, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number four, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number six, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number seven, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number nine, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number 12, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number 13, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number 14, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number 16, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number 18, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: The jury speaks! Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Murder one, the jury brings home that verdict, and then in the last moments, bombshell tonight. The aggravation phase both commences and ends. After the jury is forced to hear the horrific details about Travis`s final moments as he stares into his own bathroom mirror and sees himself bleed out, stabbed, shot, slashed to death by Jodi Arias, this jury decides one thing and one thing only, that the murder of Travis Alexander was cruel, the jury unanimously saying yes. And now on to the death penalty phase.
We are live and taking your calls, camped out at the Arizona Phoenix courthouse. Straight out to you, Alexis Weed. Describe that moment in court.
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, it took the jurors an hour- and-a-half to come to this decision, not very long. They decided that this aggravating factor, this especially cruel killing of Travis Alexander, was their true verdict. The jurors were asked each individually if this is the conclusion that they came to. One by one, they all said, Yes, indeed, we find that this killing was especially cruel.
GRACE: You know, I was watching very carefully as this was read in court, again the jury polled one by one by one.
For those of you just joining us, the jury has handed down yet another verdict literally in the last hour. The jury says the component of cruelty has been met.
Remember, in this jurisdiction, there are three phases to any death penalty trial. Number one, guilt/innocence. Is she guilty of murder one? The jury said yes. Second phase, was it with cruelty? Was Travis Alexander murdered in a cruel manner? The jury says yes. And now to the death penalty phase.
It`s not really that surprising. Out to you, Matt Zarrell. The jury was out an hour and 33 minutes. That`s pretty quick.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Nancy, it is. And just like before, it was a break right before we heard the verdict came in. When the verdict came in for guilt or innocence, the jury had taken a break, came back, and then had a verdict shortly after. Here again, we saw a number of jurors go out and take a break, come back. Maybe they just wanted to think it over. But they came back and ruled that it was proven. We are moving to the death phase.
GRACE: You know, Martinez gave an incredibly powerful closing argument to this jury. Take a listen to what Martinez said.
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JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: And for demonstrative purposes, because they said to you, Well, this is a short period of time, it`s 11:38 and 20 seconds, let`s just sit for two minutes.
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GRACE: In these moments, the jury forced to relive Travis`s murder from the first stab to the heart in the shower when he was in a seated position, as he struggled to try and get up out of that shower, as Arias continues to stab him and stab him, the blood going down the hallway, where he tried to get away, as he stood in his bathroom mirror and saw blood pouring, gushing out of his nose and his mouth, and in that mirror could see Arias coming at him again -- nine stab wounds in the back.
We heard again today during these two moments of silence for Travis Alexander how there were actually divots in his skull where she had stabbed him so hard with the point of that knife in his skull, there were actually divots in it, like you`d find out on a golf course, that he saw that happening! That is what the jury was considering.
And then at the end, after these two minutes, he tried one more time to get away, and he was slashed from ear to ear, even the wound being serrated, serrated, scalloped, as they say, where she sawed back and forth across his neck, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, and Travis Alexander was dead! You`re right, jury, it was cruel and heinous!
To the courthouse, Jean Casarez standing by. Jean, are you surprised?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": No. Not surprised at all, Nancy. Nancy, the emotion in that courtroom, alongside with the seriousness of the proceeding, was just starkly different from anything I`ve experienced.
And Nancy, those photographs that were so critical to the prosecution`s case today to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there was that extreme cruelty -- as they were displayed on the screens, especially almost the decapitation of his head that was on that screen, it was on there for an eternity because there was a sidebar that was called, and the picture stayed up. And everybody is looking down. Nobody wants to look at the evidence, including jurors. They didn`t want to look. But it was up there for a long, long time, the point being that Travis Alexander was alive when he was almost decapitated.
GRACE: So Jean, as Martinez makes his powerful statement, the two minutes of silence for Travis Alexander, where the jury has really no choice but to relive what they know, as you and I have described and discussed on and off camera so many times, the order, the progression of the murder -- were those photos up then during those two minutes?
CASAREZ: No, they were not. But that was...
GRACE: What was (INAUDIBLE)
CASAREZ: ... the rebuttal close because -- it was in the -- it was in the rebuttal...
GRACE: Yes.
CASAREZ: ... close, almost at the end of the proceeding because the defense had said it was only 62 seconds. What could he feel in 62 seconds? And then the point was, no, it was longer than that, and that was an eternity in that courtroom. The two minutes of silence -- it went on and on and on.
GRACE: Jean, there was the state, who has the burden. That`s why they go first. And they have the opportunity to go last, as well. Martinez spoke first, then the defense sandwiched it in. And all I really got from a very -- what I consider to be a weak closing -- but they`re at a disadvantage now. They can`t argue self-defense, post-traumatic stress syndrome, behavioral disorder. That`s all over because the jury has rejected that. So they`re in a weakened position right now about what they can actually argue to the jury. So I give them credit for doing what they did.
But basically, they said, The prosecutor is trying to trick you. And he had adrenaline pumping through his body, so he probably didn`t feel those 29 stab wounds. I thought that was very weak. And then Martinez comes back to close it out with the bookend arguments.
CASAREZ: That`s right. Those were the two points by the defense. Fight or flight, the adrenalin was so pumped up that he couldn`t really feel anything. Plus, the blood was pouring out of him so fast because of all the action that it increased the time that he was dying. He was dying sooner because all the blood was coming out. But the facts remain that he made it down that hallway, and he was alive for those two minutes until he was killed.
GRACE: Well, I will tell you I was very concerned when I heard the jury questions because one of them dealt with, Didn`t you testify before -- and this was a question to the medical examiner, Dr. Horne (ph). Didn`t you testify before that there were three rapidly -- basically, rapidly fatal wounds? And it made me think for a moment that the jury was saying, Hey, this murder was so quick, he really didn`t suffer, so it wasn`t cruel. I was concerned about that, Jean.
CASAREZ: Sure because that is one factor. And maybe that`s why there was one hour and 33 minutes of deliberation. A lot of people thought it was going to be much shorter than an hour-and-a-half.
GRACE: OK, Jean, we jumped the gun. We started off with, Hey, the jury has come back with the decision of cruelty. We`re now heading into the penalty phase. But take me through it from the beginning to the end. Jean, what`s the first thing that happened in court? What`s the last thing that happened in court today? Even though it was brief, don`t leave anything out.
CASAREZ: The first thing was just the emotion, the emotion of the seriousness of what was about to happen. There wasn`t really emotion before it began, but the serious aspect was right there in the courtroom.
The jurors filed in. They`re casually dressed, serious, as always, sat down. The judge gave them their instructions, as they read their instructions. And then opening statements. So many objections in opening statements because the defense believed it was argument, that it wasn`t giving a statement to the jury of what they would learn and see as evidence in this aggravation phase.
After that, there was opening statement by the defense that, Don`t have sympathy. You can`t have prejudice. You can`t be prejudiced by the pictures you`re going to see. So the jurors knew what was about to happen.
And then Dr. Horne took the stand, and he was so basic as he went wound by wound and so basic, Mr. Martinez, talking about he was alive, he was conscious, he was thinking, he was feeling. And the nerve endings were cut every time there was a stab wound, and that made him feel excruciating pain.
Then the defense turn for their cross-examination, and then finally, closing arguments. Prosecution went first with everything I`ve just said. The defense -- it all happened so quickly. And the shot, if you believe it came first, it was debilitating, and nothing could be felt after that shot. Finally, rebuttal close by the prosecution. Jury then final instructions and began to deliberate.
GRACE: How was the jury reacting during all of this?
CASAREZ: They`ve been so stoic the whole time. They don`t show facial expressions. But when that picture of Travis Alexander`s slit throat, so deep, so big, so scalloped, as you said, on one said -- they looked at it, but they didn`t want to look at it. They looked away. And it was on there for so long.
GRACE: Everyone, I want you to see what this jury saw. Take a listen to Martinez.
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MARTINEZ: She made sure that -- she made sure that she killed him by stabbing him over and over and over again and then finishing him off by slicing his throat. It is also sure that during this vicious attack, Mr. Alexander suffered. Mr. Alexander suffered pain every time that knife went into his body, every time that knife blade stuck or struck the back of his head. Then when the blade went down to his throat, it was certainly also extremely painful.
In addition to that, we know that he was alive in the sense that he was able to see. He was able to breathe. He was able to hear, so that he knew what was coming, forcing him to endure a horrific hardship, a horrific view of the world, mental anguish.
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MARTINEZ: Mr. Alexander suffered excruciating pain.
One of those stab wounds went into his heart.
With regard to these stab wounds, is one of those the one that actually pierced the heart or not?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, the lower right corner.
MARTINEZ: He felt that pain. He was also beginning to feel the pain of his heart running out of blood as the blood kept seeping out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it actually injures the vessel leading into the heart. So as the blood began to leak out of that vessel and the heart began to fail, he probably experienced shortness of breath.
MARTINEZ: We`ve heard of people having heart attacks. Is that similar to that or not?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. As the heart is starved for oxygen in a heart attack, that chest pain is similar.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Arizona versus Jodi Ann Arias, verdict, count one, aggravating factor especially cruel. We the jury, duly empaneled and sworn in the above entitled action, upon our oath do find that the aggravating factor especially cruel has been proven. Signed foreperson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: For those of you just joining us, the jury has rendered yet another decision. In the last hours, they hand down a verdict of cruelty. As you know, that is phase two of three phases in seeking the death penalty in the state of Arizona.
With me right now, Brian Skoloff, the author of "Killer Girlfriend: The Jodi Arias Story." He is joining us at the courthouse. Brian, are you surprised, A, at the jury`s decision, and B, at Arias`s reaction?
BRIAN SKOLOFF, AUTHOR, "KILLER GIRLFRIEND": Not surprised at all at the jury`s decision. Obviously, this was a tough one for the defense to overcome. I was a little surprised the defense even decided to put on a case instead of just stipulating to the aggravating factor. They really didn`t have much to work with.
On your second question, certainly surprised by Jodi`s reaction, not much at all. After court, we saw her chatting with her attorneys, appearing to be in a good mood. I saw a couple of smirks on her face, actually.
GRACE: When did you see a smirk?
SKOLOFF: When it was all over, everyone`s filing out of the courtroom, and she`s standing there, talking with her attorneys. It appears as if she had no reaction at all. She seemed to be just jovially talking.
GRACE: Everyone, we are live, camped out at the courthouse. In the last hours, the jury hands down a verdict, a verdict of cruelty. As you know, there are aggravating circumstances. One or more must be met, proven to the jury, in order for them to go on to a death penalty phase.
Now we will expect to see a huge parade of witnesses, memorabilia, pictures, you name it, put on by the defense to save Arias`s life. And what I mean by that is kindergarten photos, grade school photos, Sunday school teachers, whoever is going to speak or put in evidence on behalf of Jodi Arias.
My only question is, is she heading to another camera right now? We all know that the last time the jury handed down a verdict, Alexis Tereszcuk, Radaronline.com, she plopped straight down in front of a camera and gave a tell-all interview, which I fully expect to be part of the state`s argument as to why she should get the death penalty.
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: You are exactly right. Within moments of being found guilty, she sat down for a 45-minute interview, where she did not say she was sorry. She didn`t say she didn`t kill Travis. She trashed him. She said that he was a pedophile. She said that she was sorry that his family had to hear what a rotten person he is because those are the lies that she told on the stand.
But she`s not allowed to give any more interviews. The judge ruled, No, that`s it, done, no more interviews.
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MARTINEZ: (INAUDIBLE) the suicide attempt at the jail. At that time, you heard the description of all the preparations that she took. And one of the things that she told you...
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GRACE: The jury has handed down a decision. Jodi Arias slaughtered Travis Alexander with cruelty. This is why they made that decision. Take a listen.
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MARTINEZ: One of the things that she did is that she cut her wrist. And when she cut that wrist, she said, I`m not going to go forward. She made a choice. And she made a choice to not go forward because it stung, because it hurt. She made that choice.
Mr. Alexander did not have that choice on June 4th of 2008 as to whether or not he was going to endure pain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Improper argument.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled.
MARTINEZ: And his pain was much more severe than the one that she described, the one that made her stop. Each and every time that that blade went into his body, it hurt. It was more than a sting. It absolutely was excruciating every time that blade struck the back of his head.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Again, objection. Improper argument. This is opening statements.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled.
MARTINEZ: Every time that that blade continued to cut into him, it hurt him. He was sitting in that shower there on June 4th of 2008, in the master bedroom shower, and there were some photographs that were being taken. And the last photograph that you see without any motion on it is when he was sitting there, and you see the lower quadrant of his body.
And as he sat there, the defendant took a knife, a knife that she brought, and she took this knife and she stabbed him in the chest area. There were three strikes that she delivered as she, according to her testimony, was squatted down. That is painful, if we are to apply the standard the defendant has laid out for us.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Arizona versus Jodi Ann Arias, verdict, count one, aggravating factor, especially cruel. We the jury duly empaneled and sworn, in the above entitled action, upon our oaths do find that the aggravating factor, especially cruel, has been proven. Signed, foreperson.
Is this your true verdict, so say you one and all?
JURY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ladies and gentlemen, the clerk will ask each of you a question. Please answer yes or no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number one, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number two, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number three, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number four, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number six, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number seven, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number nine, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number 12, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number 13, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number 14, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number 16, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number 18, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
MARTINEZ: The last thing that Mr. Alexander felt as he laid there, as he could see up there, was this knife, this woman and this blade coming towards him.
Was he alive when he was stabbed in the heart?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
MARTINEZ: Was he thinking about his (inaudible)?
Was he alive when he was being stabbed in the back of the head?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
MARTINEZ: Is he thinking about his family? Was he alive when he was being stabbed in the back?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
MARTINEZ: If he is being stabbed in the back, would you acknowledge at that point that he is no threat to you? Right?
ARIAS: I don`t know.
MARTINEZ: He can`t even get away, and that in itself is extreme mental anguish.
Was he alive in your opinion when his throat was slit?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
MARTINEZ: Is he thinking about the grandmother, the one that received the 20 irises from the defendant?
I think that the word that you used was stung (ph), right?
ARIAS: Yes. Double bladed razors. I took it apart one night with intentions of slitting my wrist. It just stung so bad. I couldn`t bring myself to do it.
MARTINEZ: Mr. Alexander didn`t have that choice on June 4th of 2008 as to whether or not he was going to endure pain. Each and every time that that blade went into his body, it was more than a sting. He was still alive. He was still breathing. He could still see this knife, this woman and this blade coming towards him, and that is especially cruel.
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GRACE: You have just gotten a tiny, tiny taste of what that jury saw, of what that jury heard when Martinez convinced them that the way she murdered Travis Alexander was cruel. And yes, it was cruel. They rendered a true verdict. She stabbed him. She slashed him. Even as he looked at himself in the mirror, she stabbed him so forcibly to the back of his head, it left divots in his skull.
He tried to get away. He staggered down the hallway. His blood was smeared all along the hallway walls, the floor and the bedroom -- bathroom, the closet area. It was a pool of blood. I wonder what happened there.
Finally, in the end, he was sliced ear to ear, her lover that she claims she wanted to marry, that she claimed she loved more than anything else on earth. Tried to get away, and the last thing he saw was Jodi Arias coming at him with a knife.
You are seeing the evidence. And yes, it is graphic. And yes, it is horrible. But this jury didn`t have the luxury that we have. We can turn away from these photos if we wish. They had to grapple and wrestle with the evidence. They had to look at these photos, and more, much, much more than what we have shown you here. Horrific autopsy photos. This as the family of Travis Alexander sitting on the front row fighting, literally fighting back the tears to remain stoic in court so as not to risk a reversal or a mistrial. They held back during all of this, and today at one point there was a sidebar, a quick sidebar, and during that time the jury was looking right up at the shot of Travis Alexander in death.
Martinez laid it on them like no other.
Unleash the lawyers. With me, Peter Odom, former prosecutor turned defense attorney, Atlanta. Also with me tonight, Eleanor Odom, death penalty qualified prosecutor, former senior attorney with the National DA`s Association.
Eleanor, you tried a lot of death penalty cases, and that is a rare thing. Not many lawyers can say they have handled death penalty cases. That was one heck of an argument Martinez gave today.
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: I got to give it to him, Nancy, especially the two minutes that he sat there demonstrating the time it took for Travis to die. Because some people might say, oh, two minutes isn`t that long. But when you are sitting there and you are watching the seconds tick by, you see just how long it is. And Nancy, those pictures going up, look, you almost don`t have to say it is horribly cruel, because those pictures speak a thousand words.
GRACE: And I`m sure he was tempted, Peter Odom, to play back -- because he could have subpoenaed what was shown on air from us -- where she stated that she tried to kill herself behind bars with a Bic razor, and that she nicked her skin and it just ow, it stung so bad that she just had to quit. And now they are trying to tell a jury that Travis Alexander didn`t suffer. But you have got to hand it to the defense lawyer, from a purely strategic point of view, not that one thing he said was the truth, it was all hogwash, but what does he have to work with? She stabbed the guy 29 times, slit his throat, shot him in the head, boom. And then went in a couple of hours, jumped on top of another guy. So that is what he had to work with.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. This was the part that the defense had to know that it simply couldn`t win. And they really took a minimalist approach to it. And I have to say, I have been fairly critical of Martinez in this case, but I thought he was brilliant. He was understated and very on point.
GRACE: Hold on just a moment. Hold on, Peter. I have got Beth Karas with me right now. Beth, I want to hear your observations from the courtroom.
KARAS: Well, you know, I don`t think that the verdict came as any surprise, Nancy. And I thought that it was rather stoic in there at the end. I lingered and I watched the families on both sides. And Jodi Arias`s side, I didn`t see any tears. I saw them file out without really - - I mean, they looked sad but not showing much emotion. Same thing from Jodi Arias as she huddled with her attorneys.
On the Alexander side, a lot of hugs and smiles. But really, the big verdict was last week, the guilty verdict, and I think next week we expect the next verdict, life or death. So that is the next real big one. Not any real surprise today. But it was a packed courtroom, and everyone was listening very intently to the arguments and evidence.
GRACE: You know what, Beth? God bless you, because after tot mom, Casey Anthony, after Blake, after O.J. Simpson verdict, I am still always like on pins and needles. I never think anything is a gimme, Beth. But you are right, we are heading into the most critical phase now. And Jean Casarez, speaking of it being a serious phase, we wouldn`t be going to a death penalty phase if they had not ruled the way they did today.
CASAREZ: You know what I saw, Nancy, I saw before it ever started, I saw Jodi Arias turn and look towards her mother. But it was a blank stare. I didn`t see a smile. I didn`t see an acknowledgment. It was just sort of blank. At the end, her mother stood there and wanted to talk with her. She stood there and looked at her and looked at her. And Jodi was seeming like she was in control of her attorneys. You know, what we are going to do next, it just seemed like she was the head of the discussion about this now penalty phase to determine if she lives or dies. And her mother kept standing there and standing there, but Jodi never turned to her to come and talk or even look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- versus Jodi Ann Arias. Verdict, count one, aggravating factor, especially cruel. We the jury duly empanelled and sworn in the above entitled action, upon our oath, do find that the aggravating factor, especially cruel, has been proven. Signed, foreperson.
Is this your true verdict, so say you one and all?
JURY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ladies and gentlemen, the clerk will ask each of you a question. Please answer yes or no.
Juror No. 1, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTINEZ: He then goes towards the sink, and begins to get there or ambulate, walk, crawl, gets there. And when he gets over to that sink, he is already hurting (ph). He has already got the issue with his heart. And as he gets to that sink and he looks, he can also see that this blood is coming down. Initially, he just looks down at it. But now he is able to see it, and there is this mental anguish associated with his blood running down as he stands there bleeding (inaudible). Not only is he seeing himself, which is extreme emotional anguish, he is able to see her in the back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Arizona versus Jodi Ann Arias, verdict count one, aggravating factor, especially cruel. We the jury, duly empanelled and sworn in the above entitled action, upon our oath, do find that the aggravating factor, especially cruel, has been proven. Signed, foreperson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This just went down in that Phoenix courthouse just a couple of hours ago, and the attorneys now in crisis mode as they face the death penalty proceedings. This jury now the same jury empanelled that has heard all of this evidence since January, will make the decision, death or life for Jodi Arias.
Straight out to Ramani Durvasula, clinical psychologist and author. Dr. Ramani, as Jean just described it, the moment that this was read, with her mother standing by to show emotional support for her, she instead, Jodi Arias, turns to her lawyers and they huddle strategically and calculatedly planning their next move like this is a chess game. We saw after the guilty verdict came down on murder one, she walked out one door and sat down and started giving a tell-all interview to the local Fox station. What is this saying to you? I mean, I`m just a lawyer, you`re the shrink. What does it say?
DR. RAMANI DURVASULA: Nancy, she is the master of manipulation. This has been a circus that she has sort of been a performer in for a long time, and the fact that she thought she`d get away with it -- now we`ve hit the wall. There is nowhere left for her to manipulate to. And she keeps trying, she is playing that game to the end. But we saw today the defense had this -- there was no way. And so she already -- you see her becoming number and number. But she cannot manipulate her way out of this. I think she is starting to accept her fate. She has always been able to worm her way out of situations, Nancy, and now that`s gone.
GRACE: You know what, I just don`t see it. I get the first part and I agree with that. But to you, Alexis Tereszcuk, in the face of every dilemma that she has ever faced in life, she has gotten off. She has never been held accountable for anything. She is even online now selling artwork for $3,000, and it is really something she traced out of a magazine. I mean, she gets away with everything. She has never been held accountable. And I don`t think she feels she is going to be held accountable for this.
TERESZCUK: No, and she even still has her friend tweeting for her. She`s saying, oh, I`m raising money for victims of domestic violence. She does not believe that she is going to be held accountable for anything. And she hasn`t been. She is still able to trace her artwork and sell it. Nothing has been stopped. She was never held accountable for anything.
GRACE: Joining me, Brian Skoloff, literally wrote the book on Jodi Arias. Brian, I would like to hear your thoughts, especially on what Jean Casarez cued us into, that immediately after this was read in open court, the jury walks out, she immediately, instead of going to her mother or having any communications with her mother, her mother, she instead turns to her lawyers and they start planning and strategizing and have a legal huddle.
BRIAN SKOLOFF, AUTHOR: I mean, I think Jean said it right there. I don`t think this came as a shock to Jodi and her attorneys, which is why I don`t think we saw much reaction from Jodi or her family members. I think the defense had a tough case to put on here to prove this was not especially cruel. I think they came into this--
GRACE: You know what, Brian, you`re a heck of a journalist, but somebody tells me that I`m heading to a death penalty phase in a murder trial, I don`t care how much my lawyers may have said, look, this might happen, I`m still going to have some type of an emotional response. The thought that you could be put to death by lethal injection, never see your family again ever in this world -- I mean, to me it just shows how cold and how calculated she is. Now, when her mother is standing there, trying to comfort her, she instead turns away from her and to the lawyers?
SKOLOFF: I think I mean, you hit it on the head there, Nancy. Let`s think about who you are talking about. We are not talking about you or me, we`re talking about Jodi Arias. This is a person who stabbed a man 29 times, slit his throat, shot him in the head. So I don`t think we can expect the normal reactions from a person who is capable of doing something like this.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Sandy in Florida, hi, Sandy. We are live and taking your calls. What is your question, dear?
CALLER: Hi, Nancy, how are you today?
GRACE: Good.
CALLER: I am calling, I was wondering how long will the penalty phase take before she gets put on death row?
GRACE: Well, it really all depends on what type of evidence is put up. Out to you, Eleanor Odom, it really depends on how many witnesses the state puts up in aggravation and how many witnesses that the defense puts up in mitigation. And typically, the mitigation is usually longer than the aggravation.
E. ODOM: Well, and unfortunately, Nancy, with the state, when they put up aggravating evidence, the victim`s family can speak, but they have to speak from a script. It has to be written out ahead of time and approved by the judge. Defense attorney gets a say so.
GRACE: Not fair.
E. ODOM: Whereas the defendant`s family -- yes, can get up and cry and beg for the jury to spare her life, but the victim`s family, Travis Alexander`s family, cannot beg.
GRACE: El, El, have you heard this? The latest out of the courtroom? The defense, Jodi Arias`s defense, doesn`t even want Travis` family to speak to the jury. They want it on video.
E. ODOM: You know, I hope that doesn`t go anywhere, Nancy.
GRACE: Of course they do.
E. ODOM: Of course they do. They already have to speak to such a scripted, you know, thing that it is almost surreal in a way. It doesn`t seem real. And again, like I said, the defendant`s family, Jodi Arias`s family, her friends can get up and beg for her life. They can cry. They can plead. But the victim`s family cannot.
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MARTINEZ: Excruciatingly painful and it just plain hurt. His hands are bleeding, his chest is bleeding. She made sure that she killed him by stabbing him over and over and over again, and then finishing him off.
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GRACE: For those of you just joining us, the jury has spoken. The jury says that the element of cruelty was proved by the prosecution. This paves the way for the next phase, that of the death penalty phase. Will this jury give Jodi Arias the Arizona death penalty by lethal injection, or spare her life and give her life behind bars? We are taking your calls -- out to Elizabeth. Hi, Elizabeth. What`s your question?
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. For one, Juan did a wonderful job. And second, if they give -- if they come back with the death penalty, can the judge overrule that?
GRACE: Yes. It`s my understanding, in most jurisdictions the judge has the ability to overrule a jury verdict. The last time I can recall that off the top of my head happening was, I believe it happened in the Louise Woodward (ph) nanny au pair case, where the jury came back with maybe it was murder two, and he reversed that to a lower conviction. It can happen.
To Alicia Shabel (ph), friend of Travis Alexander, I`d like to hear your reaction to the jury`s decision.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for having me. I`m emotional. But today was an important day I think for America to understand how cruel this was. And I`m grateful that the jurors can now state how cruel it was. And I`m emotional, because I literally -- I am sitting here by my computer, and I made the mistake of researching his name online and the autopsy photos showed up, and I am forever scarred. How can you -- I know the family and everyone sitting in court sees them. That`s specifically why I wasn`t in there. But I don`t know how anyone could see those and not see how cruel it was. This is one of my dearest friends, who was slaughtered.
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GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Sergeant Karl Campbell, 34, Chiefland (ph), Florida. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, War on Terrorism Service Medal. Parents Arthur Sr. and Audrey. Brother, Arthur Jr. Sisters Audrey and Tina. Widow, Jennifer. Three sons, two daughters, one granddaughter. Karl Campbell, American hero.
And now back to the Arias courtroom. In the last hours literally, the jury hands down yet another verdict, a verdict of cruelty, paving the way for this jury to potentially sentence Arias to death by lethal injection.
To Dr. Bill Manion (ph), medical examiner joining me out of Philadelphia tonight. Dr. Manion, thank you for being with us. Of course, Travis Alexander suffered immense pain. He struggled to live. He got up, he fought, he tried to run away. He staggered down the hall, to have his throat slit, leaving behind what the medical examiner called scalloped edges. Couldn`t tell if that was from decomposition or if she had actually sawed back and forth on his neck. What do scalloped edges mean, Dr. Manion?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, scalloped or serrated indicating that perhaps the knife had been moving back and forth. We can tell if a wound is made with a straightedged blade or a scalloped blade. But here, it seemed like the left part of the wound was straightedged, and the right part was scalloped. So that indicated some sawing back and forth motion. And the medical examiner and even myself were particularly struck by how deep the wound was. It transected the airway and went basically to the -- almost to the cervical vertebral column. And that takes a lot of force.
GRACE: Dr. Bill Manion, she almost decapitated him, and the scalloped edges, what they`re talking about in court today, to break it down, is the knife went back and forth, basically sawing on his neck. You`re darned right, it was cruel.
Everyone, court is done, but first the jury spoke. Dr. Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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