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Nancy Grace
No Witnesses Speak for Jodi Arias
Aired May 20, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your image is not important right now.
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: The only appropriate sentence is death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Death is the decision before you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Spending the rest of your life (INAUDIBLE)
MARTINEZ: ... and that she`s a good artist. Again, what does that have to do with the murder?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, when I wanted to talk or see my brother...
JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED OF MURDER: Listen, if I`m found guilty, I don`t have a life.
MARTINEZ: In those two minutes, Mr. Alexander suffered immensely. It was an incredibly long period of time to be continually stabbed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... I have to go to a three-and-a-half-foot, eight-foot-long...
MARTINEZ: He suffered physical pain, blood gushing from everywhere. He suffered mental distress to the point...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and six-foot-deep hole in the ground.
MARTINEZ: ... that only death relieved it, and that`s especially cruel.
ARIAS: If I hurt Travis, if I killed Travis, I would beg for the death penalty!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Jodi Arias set to take the stand to beg the jury to spare her life, even though she herself showed no mercy to her lover, Travis Alexander, when she brutally slashed him to death in his own shower. But then, not one person -- not a friend, not a lover, grandmother, sister, father, even Arias`s own mother -- will take the stand to vouch for Arias.
Bombshell tonight. Court in an uproar! No defense witnesses at all will vouch for Arias? Arias`s attorneys so fed up, they beg the court to let them off the case, second time in one week they try to divorce Jodi Arias.
Since Arias`s last dramatic 18-day monologue on the stand got her a murder one verdict, will she now give a repeat performance, an encore, so to speak?
We are live and countdown (ph) in the Phoenix courthouse, taking your calls. Straight out to Jean Casarez. Jean, so much happening today. We expected to see a lineup of Jodi Arias -- but this is what (ph) I thought it would go down. You`d work up to the best, that they would start with a former lover, Darryl Brewer, that then maybe we would see that woman that tweets all the time, tweets for Jodi Arias behind bars, and then maybe the childhood friend that we hear so much about that was on ABC -- what was it, "Nightline" or "20/20" -- giving, you know, her story about the real Jodi Arias.
Then I thought, you know, there`s a lover worked in there somewhere. Then I thought we had the sister, then the grandmother, then the father, then the mother, then Arias. What happened?
JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: Nancy, we have never seen the emotion that I saw on the defense team today. Prosecutor very calm and cool, defense team absolutely on fire. They stand up. They ask for a mistrial.
And what was front and center was a witness that was supposed to take the stand to try to save Jodi Arias`s life, Patti Womack. But Patti Womack has gotten threats to her own life, and it`s gotten to a point...
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Wait!
CASAREZ: ... where she is so intimidated...
GRACE: Wait! Wait! Wait! Wait!
CASAREZ: ... the defense said...
GRACE: Wa-wait! Wa-wait! Wait! Who says they got a threat to their life?
CASAREZ: Patti Womack, in a letter, which is sealed. But the defense said in open court that she had been intimidated to a point -- and it was all in that letter, which is sealed -- but she finds that it is pointless now -- she cannot take the stand because she`s too scared. Defense said right to a fair trial, Jodi Arias is not having it...
GRACE: Well, wait a minute! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!
CASAREZ: ... at this point because there`s more to the story...
GRACE: Wait! Wait! Wa-wait! Jean, Jean, let me just take it one step at a time. Now, this is a woman who has been -- what was it, on "Nightline" or "20/20"? Which one was she on?
CASAREZ: I didn`t watch it. I think it as "20/20."
GRACE: It`s "20/20."
CASAREZ: I believe it was ABC.
GRACE: They`re telling me in my ear it was "20/20." So she goes on "20/20" and gets national exposure defending Jodi Arias. But now that it`s time to get in front of a jury and actually vouch for her under oath, she won`t do it. Is that correct?
CASAREZ: And that`s part of the defense because they`re saying that she has gotten so many death threats for when she has gone public that she now is retreating and says, I can`t do it.
GRACE: Well, what about this business about somebody taking the 5th Amendment?
CASAREZ: Well, that`s on the side of the prosecution because Patti Womack -- the other side of the story -- did an interview on May 15th with the prosecutor. Prosecutor said there are two big issues that she`s concerned she could be prosecuted for. One allegedly is drugs. The second is pictures that she took of Jodi Arias.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Beth Karas -- OK, let me throw that one to you. Beth, how could she be prosecuted for taking or giving away pictures of Jodi Arias?
BETH KARAS, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: We don`t have the full picture, Nancy, but apparently, she took a licensing fee for letting some networks have some pictures of her and Jodi over the years. And all we know from Martinez is she didn`t report that income. What that means, we don`t...
GRACE: OK, hold on.
KARAS: ... we don`t have the full picture, and...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Let me digest this, Beth.
KARAS: ... came out in chambers.
GRACE: See, you and -- you and Jean, you know so much, for the rest of us to take in, it`s like drinking from a fire hydrant. I just -- hold on. So wait a minute. She`s -- let me get this straight. Womack is saying she sold some pictures or gave licensing -- got licensing fees for pictures of her and Arias.
OK, that`s not a crime. This is America. You can practically sell anything. I mean, come on, Jodi Arias is selling artwork for $3,000 on line. So she got some money for some pictures. But why would she get prosecuted? Why would you have to take the 5th Amendment right to remain silent under our Constitution because she sold some pictures?
KARAS: We don`t have the full picture because it was in a sealed hearing, and the judge did not put the reasoning on the record, nor did Martinez. But that is what he said, she did not report it. There was some entity she needed to tell she had that money. There`s a bigger picture here, and we don`t have the full picture.
GRACE: OK. Every -- it`s like -- it`s like a house of cards, and it`s all starting to fall. Today, we expected this lineup of all these defense witnesses to beg for Jodi Arias`s life, including Jodi Arias. Well, none of it happened. Now we`re finding out that Patti Womack was going to take the 5th Amendment or the 5th Amendment was stated in connection to her name? All this happened in open court.
This is who we`re talking about. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Arias`s childhood friend, Patti Womack.
PATTI WOMACK, JODI ARIAS`S CHILDHOOD FRIEND: She`s not the monster that you all think she is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We have heard Jodi Arias`s parents recently on tape describing many, many problems that Jodi had, Jodi Arias had, growing up, including growing pot as young as the 8th grade. They said that her friends would often call them saying that Jodi Arias has got a problem and she needs help, begging her mom and dad to please help her.
Did you see any warning signs, Patti?
WOMACK (via telephone): Well, like I said, I did lose contact with Jodi for a few years because I did get married and I started my family, so there was a few years that I didn`t -- I`m sorry -- that I didn`t -- I didn`t have any contact with Jodi. But I was with Jodi every day, or at least had phone conversations, you know, in contact with Jodi. I never saw any of those behaviors at all, no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Earlier, you saw ABC`s "GMA," "Good Morning America." So Patti Womack falls to the side. And one more time quickly, Jean. How is Patti Woman -- who said she was going to take the 5th Amendment? What was said exactly?
CASAREZ: Apparently, in the interview with Martinez, when it was mentioned pictures that she had taken and money she may have received, she left the interview room with Kirk Nurmi and Jennifer Willmott, who are not representing her, consulted with them, came back in and wanted to plead the 5th.
They got her outside counsel to consult with her as to whether she could still testify under the circumstances, but the result is she wasn`t here today.
GRACE: Whoa! OK, so one of Arias`s character witnesses, so to speak, is to the point where she may need to take the 5th Amendment. All right, that`s a problem.
OK, what about the mother? Out to you, Mike Walker, senior editor, "National Enquirer." Your magazine has had some dealings with Jodi Arias`s mother. Why isn`t she lining up to take the witness stand?
MIKE WALKER, "NATIONAL ENQUIRER" (via telephone): It`s really hard to say because she was cooperative with us when she gave us copies of the letters that were supposedly, allegedly handwritten by Travis Alexander, and these letters were supposed to show that he was brutal to Jodi and that also he was sexually deviant, to use her word. And those letters did not work. I think you know this. They were not allowed by the judge. We don`t know exactly why. They were shown to a handwriting expert. After that, the judge said, We`re not allowing those letters.
But her mother at that point was apparently trying to cooperate, trying to help. She thought these letters would help defend her daughter. As indeed (ph), they would if they really did prove that he was abusive and sexually deviant.
GRACE: Mike Walker joining us, senior editor "National Enquirer." Mike, I`ve noticed because I am an avid reader -- I never saw those letters published in "The Enquirer."
WALKER: No, you never did, because if you notice, the way the story is written -- and you and I discussed this story once before a couple of months ago, I think -- we very carefully don`t, you know, assign any heft or weight to these letters. We don`t know.
One of the problems with these letters, Nancy, is that Jodi claims that they -- because we said, Well, where are the originals? You know, the handwritten -- Oh, well, those don`t exist anymore. Those got destroyed. So now all we have are electronic copies, so we`ve got copies of -- you know, of those copies and...
GRACE: When you say electronic copies, are you saying -- were they e- mails or were they handwritten letters?
WALKER: No, they were not -- they were not -- not what we were given copies of, no. When we asked for that, they said, Well, there were handwritten copies, but oh, gee, they got destroyed.
GRACE: So all they gave you was a stack of e-mails?
WALKER: Basically.
GRACE: OK, now, isn`t it true -- unleash the lawyers. Don`t go anywhere, Mike Walker. Susan Moss, Terence Lenamon, Mickey Sherman -- Mickey Sherman, you and Terence defense attorneys, also with me Susan Moss, family law attorney.
Susan Moss, now, you know if the mother got up there and took the stand, can`t you just see Martinez just licking his chops with his handful of letters that arguably could have been faked by Jodi Arias, letters where they claim, Jodi Arias claims, that Alexander admitted to all this stuff, to brutality, and they were trying to peddle it to "The National Enquirer" through the mother? Think that might be a little line of cross-examination by Martinez?
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Well, how about the fact that they claimed time and time again that this woman abused Jodi Arias by hitting her with wooden spoons and leaving welts? I bet she`s going to say, I didn`t do that, either.
But is it really a surprise that for her no one will rise? I mean, come on, Captain Obvious! Everyone has seen now what she has done. They`ve seen the brutal pictures of Travis. And no one will stand up to help her. That speaks miles!
GRACE: Terence Lenamon, everyone -- you recall Terence. Terence is the former lawyer that argued against the death penalty for tot mom, Casey Anthony.
Terence Lenamon, I`ve been through a lot of death penalty cases. I`ve never seen a case where at least the mother didn`t get up on the stand.
TERENCE LENAMON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think it`s problematic from the beginning, the way the defense presented a first phase presentation. I think in any death case, you have to think about integration. You have to think about the end game. And now they are struggling with the end game. They should have been...
GRACE: Terence, Terence, Terence...
LENAMON: ... thinking about credibility of mom...
GRACE: ... Terence...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: When you say problematic in the initial phase, what -- what are you saying? Are you saying they shouldn`t have painted the mother out to be so evil in the guilt/innocence phase?
LENAMON: No, I think that they should have thought twice about even considering those letters. I think that they should have thought twice about putting Ms. Arias on to begin with. And I think that they should have went with a defense that was integrated to save her life, and they haven`t done that. They made a lot of mistakes...
GRACE: What about it, Mickey?
LENAMON: ... and they let this client run the show.
GRACE: Terence, I have to agree with you because, Mickey, as we all know, when you`re trying a death penalty case, when you give your opening statement as the defense, your eye is at the end of the field. Everything you say, even in opening statements, must be geared toward the death penalty phase, the sentencing phase at the end. And they didn`t do it. That`s what Lenamon`s saying.
MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, but you know what the problem here, is the atmosphere out there. There is a mob hysteria wave of hate outside that courtroom and inside the courtroom that makes it near impossible...
GRACE: Wait! Wa-wait! Why are you saying there`s a mob mentality inside the courtroom? Have you ever been in the courtroom? Because I have.
SHERMAN: No, but I`ve watched your coverage of it. And outside -- except there`s 2,000 Madam Defarges...
GRACE: You said in the courtroom.
SHERMAN: ... screaming guillotine. I mean...
GRACE: You said in the courtroom.
SHERMAN: That`s true.
GRACE: OK, out to you, Jean Casarez, Beth Karas. Have you noticed mob mentality inside the courtroom? All I can see is the judge bending over backyards, trying to protect Jodi Arias`s rights.
CASAREZ: You know, I understand what Mickey is saying, but in the courtroom, within the four walls of the courtroom, it is very serious. It is very focused. And the judge admonishes the jury quite a bit as to whether they are listening or have read anything on this case. For five months now, the answer is no.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi Arias will speak. That will be the moment of truth, final plea for life or death. Who knows with Jodi Arias. The attorneys trying to withdraw -- now, obviously, that fell on deaf ears.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... I would move to withdraw from the case yet again.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The motion to withdraw is denied.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... and then saying that there would be no mitigating witnesses at all to take the stand.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will not be calling witnesses in the face (ph), given the court`s ruling and the incomplete picture. We will not be calling witness in the defense case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How appropriate, Jodi Arias speaking about her favorite subject, Jodi Arias.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What could she say? Will she plead for life, plead for death? Who knows with all the shockers we`ve seen!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You just heard Kirk Nurmi, Jodi Arias`s lead defense attorney, say that they want a mistrial and that because the judge won`t give them a mistrial, they are not going to put up any witnesses in Jodi Arias`s defense.
We are in a death penalty phase here, where the defense should be putting up mitigation to save her life. Instead, they`re whining about a judge`s ruling, and now, almost in a retaliatory manner, saying, Fine, we just won`t put up any witnesses at all.
Do you think maybe, Mike Walker, "National Enquirer," it`s got something to do with the last time they put Arias on the stand for 18 days? They came back with a guilty verdict.
WALKER: Absolutely it does. And remember -- and speaking of the letters that you were talking about, remember, when we published these letters, we said that Jodi was hatching a desperate, last-ditch plan to walk free and she`s tried to drag "The Enquirer" into her twisted scheme, quote, unquote.
It`s not surprising to me at all that the mother is now not there testifying, unless there`s some -- unless she`s being blocked somehow, but we haven`t heard anything about that. And I think that what has happened is that she has thrown up her hands finally, and you know, come to the conclusion we all have, that Jodi Arias is a desperate, nasty, vicious little poison (ph) cookie (ph) who killed in cold blood and with great pain her lover, Travis.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Did you previously testify that Mr. Alexander had three rapidly fatal wounds?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, the wounds that would have been fatal to this man would have been the stab wound to the heart, the throat cut and then the gunshot wound.
MARTINEZ: And she accomplished this or did this in a place that was his home, a place where he was secure, a place where he was living, a place where it was a place of joy for him, maybe sadness, all of the emotions that are associated with a home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are live and camped out on the courthouse steps, bringing you the latest in the Jodi Arias murder one trial.
We are in sentencing phase of this death penalty murder trial. Everyone expected a line of witnesses outside the courtroom today to take the stand and vouch in front of the jury under oath for Arias. We had long anticipated Daryl Brewer, the boyfriend before Travis Alexander, her sister, her best friend from childhood, Patti Womack, her father, her grandmother, her mother, herself.
But when push came to shove and it was time to take the oath and sit down on the hot seat, no one is ready to vouch for Arias. They all backed out. Why?
Straight back out to Jean Casarez and Beth Karas. Jean Casarez, nobody going to testify on her behalf. But what really stumped me is why her own grandmother and mother are not going to.
CASAREZ: I wish I had an answer for you. Because the emotion of the moment is so critical in the penalty phase, I don`t have an answer. Or the -- it`s already all out there, Nancy. We know she kicked (ph) her mother. We know that her father had issues with her. We -- I mean, so much is known.
GRACE: You know, Jean, I`m not that impressed with the wooden spoon. My grandmother made us go pick our own switches to get a spanking on the back of our legs. I mean, a wooden spoon...
CASAREZ: And Nancy...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: So -- so anyway, bottom line, nobody`s showing up. Another issue that has come up today, when Jodi Arias does, if she does take the stand, she will not be cross-examined. And remember, what this jury decides cannot be overruled by a judge.
Unleash the lawyers, Sue Moss, Terence Lenamon, Mickey Sherman. Mickey Sherman, in a lot of jurisdictions, a judge can actually overrule the jury verdict. Not so in Arizona.
SHERMAN: Right. And you know, if I could just answer your last questions, why aren`t they testifying -- how do we know that it`s not the lawyers` decision, as opposed to their decision? I think the lawyers are falling on their sword and guaranteeing that this verdict will be questionable by reason of ineffectiveness of counsel because they`re not calling any witnesses. And I think they`re doing that on purpose not to -- to possibly make a kind of a skate (ph) save (ph) here. I don`t necessarily agree with that strategy, but it`s the only thing that makes sense.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then he said, Don`t be surprised if I don`t show up one of these Sundays, you find me dead somewhere.
MARTINEZ: We know that the defendant then approached Mr. Alexander from behind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These would be very, very painful.
MARTINEZ: Excruciating every time that blade struck the back of his head.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stalkers frighten people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He went to his car and all four tires had been slashed.
MARTINEZ: He decided to flee. He didn`t make it all the way down the hallway. You can see by the rainbow on the wall. That would be the end, and he went down.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTINEZ: He went down with his head up. Saying "get away from me" is a response to stalking, isn`t it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow, she`s vengeful.
MARTINEZ: You can`t get away from it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are live camped outside the courthouse bringing you the latest. Today, instead of a long list of witnesses for Jodi Arias` defense, they all back out, including her own grandmother and mother, refusing to go under oath and vouch for Jodi Arias in front of the jury. This while the defense team tries to quit. The judge won`t let them. They then filed for a mistrial. They want all the charges thrown out. This is what`s going down in the last hours.
Now, several witnesses claiming they have had death threats, but can you tell me, Beth Karas, have any police reports been filed on these terroristic death threats?
KARAS: You know, I can`t tell you whether or not police reports have been filed, but probably they have been looked into. The problem is when people sit in the safety of their homes and spew some words of hate out there, it`s not necessarily a credible threat, even though it may be intimidating. So I don`t know how much the police can really do, and I do have a theory about what could be going on. Although I was surprised no witnesses were being called.
Juan Martinez could have put on evidence to rebut mitigation. Whatever they put on. So, say they put on a string of witnesses to ask for leniency, pleading for her life. All he needed to do was put on the videotape of her interview 20 minutes after her verdict, saying I`d rather die than live in a box, and that would rebut anything any of her witnesses said. By not putting on any witnesses, Martinez can`t introduce that video now. It`s just Jodi`s word. I don`t know if that was a strategy.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: And not only that -- because we`ve all been talking about this -- he could bring that on at some point during the sentencing phase. But you`re right, that is a way he could do it. And basically, anybody that the defense puts up, Jean Casarez, the state can then rebut. If you have somebody come in and say, oh, she was a loving daughter and now she`s turned into this fantastic artist, she is an artist and a photographer, he could go, a loving daughter? Well, and then bring on the evidence about how she kicked her mom, how she berates her mom, mistreats her mom. Regarding the artist, they could bring on those fakes where she traces pictures out of magazines and sells them on the Internet and show that`s a fraud too. As far as photography, yes, she took some pictures all right. They`re state`s exhibit number 1. So, almost anything that they put up, Martinez is going to have at it.
CASAREZ: But here`s the thing, Nancy and here`s a question I have for you. Jodi Arias is set to speak to the court first thing tomorrow morning. We`ll see if that happens. But if she goes into all about our artwork and she shows the jury pictures of her artwork and goes on and on for who knows how long, when Martinez is making his closing argument, can he refer to anything that she has given in her statement to the court? It`s not witness testimony, it is a statement, but everybody`s hearing it loud and clear, does he just ignore it?
GRACE: It`s my understanding of Arizona law he absolutely can comment on what comes in, in the front of the jury. Absolutely, just as much as he can comment on what the brother and the sister had to say, what she says he can comment on.
Now, he can`t cross-examine her because she`s not testifying so to speak. She`s allocating. She is -- it`s called allocution when you give a statement, you read a statement, but you`re not testifying. You don`t get cross-examined, but he can absolutely discuss it in closing arguments.
Out to you, Matt Zarrell, how is this thing going to go down?
ZARRELL: Well, Nancy, after we expect Arias to go in front of the court and either beg for her life or beg for the death penalty, at that point then, we will get into closing arguments where the defense will have a chance to go. The state, and then the defense will have a chance to do a rebuttal closing. The judge will then instruct the jury, and then we begin deliberations, and Arias` life will hang in the balance.
GRACE: You know, I still say I have never seen a case where at least the mother did not try and save her child`s life. I mean, wild horses could not drag me off the stand to save my two children. If they are -- and I don`t care what they did, I would try to save their lives, and I don`t care what I might go through on cross-examination.
Out to the lines. Devin in Georgia, hi, Devin, what`s your question?
CALLER: Hey, Nancy. You`re a fire cracker, I just love you, you`re great.
GRACE: Thank you.
CALLER: OK, my question is, is it possible that the defense knew about Ms. Womack`s background and knew Juan would go after her about it, and they planned to use her under those circumstances as like a last ditch effort to move for a mistrial knowing it would just get denied and help her with her appeal?
GRACE: You mean, put her up as a plant, put Patty Womack on the stand as a plant?
CALLER: Not even get to the point of putting her up, knowing that it would wind up just like this.
GRACE: Good point. Good point, but I really think that trying to blame the prosecution -- let`s go to the lawyers. Sherman, Lenamon, and Moss, Susan Moss, trying to blame Juan Martinez, the prosecution, for everyone`s resentment towards Arias, I don`t believe it was Martinez that slashed Travis Alexander`s throat from ear to ear, basically decapitating him and then shot him in the head. I think that was Jodi Arias. Why is everybody suddenly blaming Martinez? What did he do wrong?
MOSS: I 100 percent agree, but I think the caller is on to something. Perhaps what the defense strategy is, not to call any witness to force the judge`s hand to try to get a mistrial, to try to create some sort of appealable issue. I think that caller is one of the smartest legal minds we`ve got.
GRACE: Yes, no offense to you, Sherman and Lenamon. Devin, there are a lot of theories about all of this being a set-up by the defense. Terence Lenamon, to get a new trial or to win on appeal. Weigh in.
LENAMON: I don`t think it was a set-up. I think what has happened is this is a roller coaster that is out of control, and that the lawyers are reacting. Who knows who`s running the show, who knows what Ms. Arias is trying to do. What she`s requesting behind closed doors. I don`t think they prepared for penalty phase. I just don`t think they did, and it`s apparent they`re putting on all this soft mitigation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi`s a very intelligent, very artistic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was just something evil about her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Quiet, soft spoken, gentle person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: None of Travis`s friends liked Jodi.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nine days out of ten, I don`t like Jodi Arias.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi was a responsible, caring, loving person.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi is bipolar and she needs help.
MARTINEZ: She indicates that, I`m extremely afraid of the defendant because of her stalking behavior.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are live at the courthouse and taking your calls. With me right now, close friend of Travis Alexander, who actually saw Arias the day after Travis was murdered. Dave Hall is joining me out of Salt Lake. Dave, thank you for being with us.
DAVE HALL, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: You`re welcome, Nancy.
GRACE: What are your thoughts about why the friend, the childhood friend, Patty Womack, all set to vouch for her under oath, in front of the jury, why is she backing out?
HALL: Well, it has nothing to do with death threats. This would be considered witness tampering. The FBI would be all over it. Police would be all over it.
The defense did not do their homework. Found a witness who would say a lot of nice things about Jodi, which is what they wanted. The problem is, Juan Martinez did his homework and he found out about the drug use, he found out about income that was not reported to the state, and if you`re on state assistance and you are getting benefits from the state but you`re not reporting other forms of income, you`re not being completely honest there. And the (inaudible) the IRS now gets involved with that, so Patty dug herself a little bit of a hole that the defense was not aware of.
GRACE: OK, I heard you saying something about public assistance and drugs. All I know is that she invoked her Fifth Amendment right to remain silent at an earlier point. Dave Hall, very close friend of Travis, saw Arias the day after Travis was murdered.
I`m stunned that the mother, the father, the grandmother, the sister are not coming forward. I mean, Dave, some of the, you know, textbook murderers, when you think murder, people like Scott Peterson. When Scott Peterson was facing the death penalty, his father, Lee Peterson, his sister-in-law, Jamie Peterson, his half brother even, John Edward Peterson, they all testified on his behalf. John Cooey, who was convicted of murdering the girl in the pink hat, Jessica Lunsford, his uncle, cousin and aunt came forward. I remember Fred Neulander, covered him when I was at Court TV. Rabbi, Fred Neulander, his own child, Benjamin, tried to save him from the death penalty. Bobby Cutts, murdered the mother of his child, Renee Jones. His mother testified. Even Ted Bundy, for Pete`s sake, Louise Bundy testified for Ted Bundy. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. And tot mom, Casey Anthony. I know for a fact that George Anthony and Cindy Anthony testified, and this is after tot mom Casey Anthony accused her father, which was a big fat lie, of molesting her as a child. He still begged this jury for his life.
Dave Hall, why is her own family not coming forward?
HALL: You know, I find that very interesting because if you ask for people to step forward and give a character witness for Travis Alexander, that line would wrap around the city of Phoenix. And yet out of seven billion people on the earth, they can`t even find one person to step up and say this lady has redeeming values, please save her life?
GRACE: You know, Dave, when you saw Arias the day after Travis Alexander was murdered, what was her demeanor?
HALL: You know, she was the same as what she had always been. She was quiet. She was soft-spoken. She wasn`t outgoing, but that`s the Jodi Arias we always knew. Other than the changed hair color, the long sleeved shirt and the Band-Aids on her hand, there was nothing that stood out to us that made us (inaudible) think something serious had happened.
GRACE: You know, it`s amazing to me that the defense thinks that her artwork is going to save her life, because the photos only make me think of the photos of Travis` dead body. And the artwork, those are tracings out of magazines, Dave Hall.
HALL: Yes, I mean, I can`t imagine what her artwork would have anything to do to persuade a jury, than hey, we need to save this lady`s life, other than that she copies real artists.
GRACE: Back to the lawyers. Sue Moss, Terence Lenamon, Mickey Sherman, I mean, Terence, you argued against the death penalty in tot mom, Casey Anthony, and even in that case, where she attacked her own father and used him for her defense, which I still to this day say George Anthony never molested tot mom Casey Anthony, he still took the stand. The mother took the stand. And begged this jury. They were prepared to testify for her under oath, and many people believed -- firmly believed that the mother, Cindy, perjured herself to save tot mom, Casey Anthony. They would have done anything to save their child.
LENAMON: No doubt parents have unconditional love. Nancy, we know that. You have your children, I have mine. I mean the problem here is, the question is, is who`s making the decisions to not call these witnesses? Is it the defense lawyers like Mickey said, trying to set up a 38-50 ineffective assistance of counsel? Is it her, orchestrating whatever she does not want to put on any mitigation? We don`t know exactly what`s going on, but what we do know, what I`ve seen is that the artwork, I agree with you, the mitigation is just so soft and really even with the parents and the family, it`s not going to overcome the issues that this young woman has to surmount to get those 12 jurors to vote unanimously.
GRACE: Here`s the thing. You know, even if you believe this jury will not spare her for her behalf, if that mother and that grandmother got up there and said forget about her, you know, if somebody, if something ever happened to my children, I`d just go lay down on the train track and just wait for it to run me over, because I couldn`t take it. Look -- this will settle it all. Look at Cindy Anthony. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sispot.com/chloroform? (ph).
CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t know if it came up with way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you on that website 84 times?
CINDY ANTHONY: I was on it several times.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you on that website 84 times?
CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t know. I don`t know. They need to look up how many times I was on the chloroform website and compare it to the chloroform website.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you do 84 searches for the effects of chlorophyll on your animals?
CINDY ANTHONY: I didn`t do 84 searches of anything, but I don`t know what my computer does while it`s running.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTINEZ: Isn`t it true that the defendant had such anger towards her mother Sandy that she treated her like crap?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
MARTINEZ: And isn`t it true that the defendant hit Sandy for no reason, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t tell me that you`re not capable.
ARIAS: I don`t even hurt spiders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Whoa, my head is spinning. We all thought there was going to be this long list of people to take the stand for Jodi Arias. They disappeared one by one. Nobody will get up there under oath and vouch for Jodi Arias. It all just fell apart today. Just disappeared. They had to cancel court. Court`s over. It`s all over. Out to you, Ramani Durvasula, clinical psychologist. I`m stunned that even the mother and grandmother won`t come up there?
DURVASULA: Nancy, I think the mother and grandmother may have quit her a long team ago.
GRACE: They`ve been in court almost every day.
DURVASULA: I understand that. And they feel that is their responsibility. But at the end of the day, what Jodi Arias does, either she drives you so crazy that you walk away, or she kills you. Apparently those are the two ways she deals with people. And I don`t think this is some great legal strategy that her defense team is doing. I honestly think at some level, they`ve almost had it.
GRACE: You know, Sue Moss, Terence Lenamon, Mickey Sherman, I guess the strategy, if there is one -- if there is one -- I think it`s just the witnesses all crapped out. But Mickey, if there is a strategy, would it be that they could be found infective assistance of counsel if they don`t put on a defense?
SHERMAN: That is exactly what I`ve said before. I think they`re falling on their sword themselves and taking the hit on that when the (inaudible) is filed later on.
(CROSSTALK)
MOSS: The strategy should have been ABJ. Anybody but Jodi. Just put on crying family member after crying family member after crying family member and hope for the best.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Private First Class, Cody Board, just 19. McKinney, Texas, Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Good Conduct Medal. Parents Christopher and Melissa. Brothers Aaron and Tyler. Cody Board, American hero.
And now back to the Jodi Arias death penalty phase. We are live and taking your calls. Jenny in Idaho. Hi, Jenny, what`s your question? Oh, Cynthia in Virginia. Hi, Cynthia.
CALLER: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question?
CALLER: Yes, I would like to know what stalling tactics has Jodi planned for us for tomorrow?
GRACE: OK. What about it, Matt Zarrell? What could she possibly do tomorrow? A migraine? What?
(CROSSTALK)
ZARRELL: We haven`t had one of those migraines in a few weeks. Maybe she`ll just refuse to come out of her cell. We don`t know and we don`t know what she`s going to say tomorrow. She could go in front of the jury and say kill me.
GRACE: Yes, OK. You know what? She could just exhaust her line of appeal if she got the death penalty. And plus, just a week ago, she gave her tell-all interview asking for the death penalty. I`ve heard she`s changed her mind. But here is another question. Back to you, Zarrell. What about the woman who tweets for her? Why isn`t she taking the stand in Arias` defense?
ZARRELL: Well, I can`t speak for why Donavan Bering is not testifying, but I can tell you the Probation Department is now investigating her, because she is now associating with a known convicted felon -- Jodi Arias.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Christine in Arizona, hi, dear, what`s your question?
CALLER: Hi, how are you doing, Nancy?
GRACE: Good.
CALLER: I just wanted to know, since Jodi seems to have a thing with the death wish the other day, if this would be more of a stall tactic on her behalf or if this is something that`s actually being planned from the defense team. There was really nothing to go on with this case. They know that they`re up against the wall. If they`re just basically throwing darts at a wall hoping something is going to stick at this point.
GRACE: Well, the interesting thing, Christine in Arizona, is that if this jury is not unanimous, they have to let the jury go and strike a new jury. All they`ve got to do is get one juror to say no to the death penalty. Everybody, as you just heard, court is over. They`ve all gone home. Ready for tomorrow. Dr. Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
