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Nancy Grace

Arias Jury Deadlocked on Death

Aired May 22, 2013 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ladies and gentlemen, I have received your note indicating that you are unable to come to a unanimous decision.

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: You have a duty...

JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED OF MURDER: This is the worst mistake of my life.

MARTINEZ: ... and that duty really means that you actually do the honest, right thing...

ARIAS: Throughout this trial, I`ve avoided looking at Travis`s family for a variety of reasons.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do not wish nor intend to force a verdict.

MARTINEZ: ... even though it may be difficult. And in this case, the right thing, the difficult thing...

ARIAS: Before that day, I wouldn`t even want to harm a spider.

MARTINEZ: ... the only thing you can do...

JENNIFER WILLMOTT, ARIAS`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The prosecutor wants to talk to you about that she has some kind of entitlement feeling...

ARIAS: This is the worst mistake of my life.

WILLMOTT: ... entitlement because she`s an artist, and therefore, she`s entitled to live.

MARTINEZ: ... is to return a verdict of death.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Breaking news. Deadlock. We are in a verdict watch here at HLN. The same 12 jurors that find Arias guilty of murder one in the brutal slaughter of her lover, Travis Alexander, now claims they just can`t get along.

Bombshell tonight. The trial judge sends the jury back into the ring to deliberate. After six months of Jodi Arias calling all of the shots, has she finally pulled it off? Has she outsmarted the jury, the jury that doesn`t know what we know, things like last night, Arias, just minutes after telling the jury to spare her life so she can sell T-shirts, Arias demands hair and make-up to go on a TV satellite tour with multiple TV networks to trash -- who did she trash? Let`s see, her lawyers, the public, all of us, the jury, and of course, she trashed her murder victim, Travis Alexander.

And that`s just the tip of the iceberg, the Jodi Arias iceberg. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN OWENS, ABC NEWS: So you really are never going to tell the truth about what went down in that bathroom.

ARIAS: I don`t know what you mean by that because I`ve told the truth.

OWENS: OK.

ARIAS: I didn`t know that you were a hater when you came to interview me.

OWENS: What do you think of this jury? It`s pretty clear they don`t think too much of you. I wonder what you think of them.

ARIAS: I don`t know. I feel a little betrayed by them. I don`t dislike them. I just was really hoping that they would see things for what they, are and I don`t feel that they did.

OWENS: To a lot of people, they think this switch from, I want to die, to, Now I want to live, is just another lie from Jodi Arias.

ARIAS: Well, I don`t know what that means. Was I lying when I said I want to die? Or was I lying when I say, Please spare my life? You know, whatever happens, I`m just going to take it and deal with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That`s from ABC`s "GMA," "Good Morning America." And with us right now and taking your calls is that correspondent, the so-called hater, Ryan Owens.

Ryan, thank you for being with us. Tell me your impression of Arias.

OWENS: Well, I`ll tell you what, Nancy. This woman was worried about just about everything except the fact that she is possibly facing the death penalty. She was worried about her hair. She was worried about her make- up. She was really worried -- she did not want us to show those stripes that the sheriff here makes them wear in the jail.

She`s very concerned about her wardrobe, but cool, calm and collected. And even though I pressed her a lot, she held up for the most part, other than calling me that nasty name, a hater.

GRACE: You know, we`re not allowed to say the word H-A-T-E at our house. So what invoked -- what did you do to provoke that, you big hater? What did you say?

ARIAS: Well, I just kept pressing her on the fact -- she started again with, Travis abused me, It was self-defense, I had to do this. And I just said, Jodi, you know no one really believes that. And she said, No, some people do. Some people do. And I just kept pressing her, and I said, you know, None of it makes any sense. There`s no evidence to back any of this up. And Nancy, I just don`t think she was prepared...

GRACE: Travis beat me...

OWENS: ... to answer these kinds of -- yes, yes.

GRACE: ... Travis was a pedophile, Travis is the bad guy, look at Travis, don`t look at me. OK, everybody, with me is Ryan Owens from ABC who Jodi Arias dubbed a hater.

You know, let me ask you about something very important, Ryan, the make-up. You say she does not want to be photographed or videoed without make-up and hair, and she doesn`t want to be seen wearing her prison -- as we call them, blues, which is basically a prison outfit.

Explain to me what you said. I`m very interested because you know what? If I had been reliving Travis`s murder and looking at that autopsy photo and seeing his family and that courtroom in tears, clutching themselves, I don`t think I`d be concerned about my hair and make-up. Call me crazy. But I want to hear exactly what happened.

OWENS: Well, most of that transpired outside of the room that I was in. By the time the deputies brought her in, she was already all made up. But the first thing she said to me and to my camera crew was, Don`t show the stripes. You know you can`t show the stripes.

And I looked at my producer and said, Did somebody make an agreement with Jodi Arias that I don`t know about? And nobody knew anything about what she was talking about. So there on "Good Morning America" and several other places, you`ve seen her stripes. So maybe that`s another reason I`m a hater.

GRACE: You know, Ryan, it`s very interesting the way Jodi Arias is in real life when you see her, as opposed to just seeing her on screen. When I got into the courtroom -- this was before she shot a bird at me. But when I got in the courtroom, she looks very different in person than she does on camera, very different, indeed. Explain.

Oh, darn! Oh, good, you`re back.

OWENS: Well, I asked her -- OK, I asked her about that. I said, Look, you know, you went from blond bombshell to the church librarian. No offense to church librarians out there. She didn`t like that question. She said, you know, That`s sort of beneath me to answer. But she said, The fact of the matter is, you can`t get hair dye in jail, so that`s why I`m not blond anymore.

And she said, A court of law is a place to act appropriate, and I try to do the best to act that way. And then she went on and on, as you`ve heard, about how she needs glasses now and she didn`t realize before that she needed them. So that`s her explanation of the change. And she was insulted by that question, if you can believe it.

GRACE: I know. It`s hard for me to digest somebody that slaughtered their lover with 29 stab wounds and a gunshot wound being concerned about appropriateness and propriety in court.

OK, Ryan Owens, everybody, is with me, ABC correspondent. He interviewed Jodi Arias, who insisted on hair and make-up, insisted on being shot in a certain way. This is just after she begs the jury for leniency.

Ryan, another thing that really stands out to me in her interviews. And she did a satellite tour. I hope you don`t feel special, Ryan, because you`re not the only one that was with Jodi Arias last night.

OWENS: I know.

GRACE: But Ryan, I was listening -- I started counting them up, who she hates, OK? She hates the jury -- she`s mad at the jury because they betrayed her.

OWENS: Betrayed her.

GRACE: She`s mad at her lawyers. She claims that she had a list of witnesses that could attest to bruises on her neck when Travis Alexander, quote, "choked her out." She is mad at the general public at large, claiming that the public enjoys seeing her persecuted, that that`s why they dislike her. Forget about slaughtering Travis, it`s because they want to see somebody else get persecuted.

Let`s see, her lawyers, the jury, the public, the media. I think that does it. Who else does she hate? And who else`s fault is it?

OWENS: That`s about the whole list that I know of. You may have left Juan Martinez off there, and you know he`s a favorite of hers.

But I do want to say the sense of entitlement that this woman has -- it`s difficult to get the sense of that, I think, until you`re with -- in her with the room -- in the room with her. She literally could not believe that I was talking to her in a manner that was very respectful but was challenging of her story and that I kept saying, Jodi, who believes that? There`s no evidence of that.

And the sense of entitlement -- I mean, she really believes that no one should be allowed to talk to her like that. And I don`t want to bash my friends, my colleagues in the media here, but I have to tell you some of them that also did interviews with her took a very different approach than me and said things like, Jodi, I`m so sorry to ask you this difficult question.

And I thought to myself, This woman is a convicted killer who lies to everyone, and we know she really likes to lie to the media. So why is everybody treating her like she`s the first lady of the state of Arizona? It`s very bizarre.

GRACE: You know, I just got a text from Sheriff Joe Arpaio as you were talking, and he says, "Hanks for reminding me we did not buy Jodi make-up. We wouldn`t do that. The media provided it to her." So you know what? I`m going to cross-examine you on that in just a few moment moments.

With me, Ryan Owens, correspondent with ABC News, who`s been labeled a hater by Jodi Arias.

Unleash the lawyers. With me, Robert Blecker, New York law school professor, author of "The Death of Punishment." He is a death penalty proponent. Eleanor Odom, death penalty-qualified prosecutor. That`s a very, very hard status to attain, I might add. Also with me, defense attorney out of the Atlanta jurisdiction Peter Odom.

First of all, out to you, Robert Blecker. The jury has locked in the last hours. The judge sent them back in, back into the ring to continue deliberations. She gave them a dynamite charge. It was a very mild dynamite charge. Explain.

ROBERT BLECKER, NEW YORK LAW SCHOOL PROFESSOR: Well, she gave them -- it turns out she gave them the same charge, word for word, that the judge had given Andriano, one of the other two women on death row in Arizona.

And that`s a charge -- first of all, the jury has to initiate it. That is, the jury has to give some evidence that it`s having trouble reaching a unanimous verdict. The judge cannot initiate it on her or his own. Having done that, then the judge instructs the jury that it would be a good thing if they could come to a unanimous decision, but to no degree is the judge going to coerce them into it, but it`s worth really trying to get to that decision.

And the judge is very careful. As I said, this particular charge has actually gone up to the Arizona supreme court and been affirmed as constitutional, word for word. It`s identical. I compared them.

GRACE: Hey, Robert, lock at your screen. Look at your screen. That`s Travis Alexander`s family there, breaking down into tears. They`re looking around in stunned disbelief when the jury comes out and says they`re locked. With me, Robert Blecker, New York Law School.

OK, out to you, Matt Zarrell. Blecker`s right. The same charge was given in the Andriano case, another woman on the Arizona death row. What can you tell me about that?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, Nancy, the first thing I could tell you is that Wendi Andriano was put on death row by Juan Martinez. Andriano was convicted in 2004. She remains on death row, and we`re waiting -- within, you know, a year or two, Nancy, we may get an execution date for Andriano. You know, people that are on death row, particularly men and women both, they average about 12 years before they get executed.

GRACE: Back to the lawyers, Robert Blecker, Eleanor Odom and defense lawyer out of Atlanta Peter Odom. Peter, too bad Jodi Arias keeps talking to the press. You know her lawyers don`t like it. She keeps doing it. What do you do? Here she is bashing the jury. I doubt they`ll ever find out, but she`s even trashing Travis Alexander. She just can`t stop.

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: At this point, it really doesn`t matter. The jury`s never going to find out. What I think it might affect is the appeal, if it ever gets to an appeal, because her statements and the questions to her would be available. But frankly, I just think this is -- it`s not helpful to anybody except for -- I guess except for us in the media because we get to...

GRACE: I don`t even know what you`re talking about. What`s not helpful to anybody?

PETER ODOM: I mean, her media -- her media blitz. This is not helpful...

GRACE: I think it`s helpful.

PETER ODOM: ... to anybody.

GRACE: I`ll tell you why I think it`s helpful, because even if the jury never finds out about it, Eleanor, it`s unmasking Arias for exactly what she is, if you didn`t already know. Just like before, when the guilt/innocence came down and she was declared guilty on murder one, she sat right down and gave a tell-all interview over her lawyers` wishes. This time, she did it again.

And once again -- I hate to talk about Travis being a pedophile and an abuser and a hypocrite -- she always does -- she always trashes Travis Alexander every time. This time, she dragged in the jury, and you too, you big hater, Ryan Owens. Everybody got the short end of the stick with Jodi Arias last night.

ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: Well, yes, Nancy, and -- but I have to agree with Peter on one thing. I don`t want to see any type of appellate issue come about. And remember, last night, the judge all of a sudden said, OK, you can go ahead and have interviews. But I do agree she`s -- it`s showing her for the complete sociopath that she is.

GRACE: What appellate issue? Correct me if I`m wrong, Robert Blecker. The Constitution protects us from the power of the state. It doesn`t protect Jodi Arias from herself. If she continues to blab and shoot herself in the foot, that`s her problem. The founding fathers did not anticipate Jodi Arias.

BLECKER: Well, they didn`t, but that doesn`t mean she deserves to die because she lies and wants attention.

GRACE: That`s not what I said, I don`t believe, Robert.

BLECKER: That`s correct. You didn`t say it.

GRACE: I said that there`s not an appealable issue because she gabs to journalists, because she loves to be in front of the camera. That`s not an appealable issue.

BLECKER: That`s correct. That`s not an appealable issue.

GRACE: Whoa! That was like pulling a tooth!

(LAUGHTER)

GRACE: Take a listen to Jodi Arias.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did you want to happen on June 4th, 2008? You went to his house. What were you expecting was going to happen?

ARIAS: I really expected us to just hang out, like we`d always done, and that would be the day.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it turned so horribly wrong.

ARIAS: It really did. Yes. That`s not what I was expecting at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: More of that interview at ABC15.com.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have nightmares?

STEVEN ALEXANDER, TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S BROTHER: I have nightmares about somebody coming at me with a knife and then going after my wife and my daughter. I`ve had dreams of my brother all curled up in the shower, thrown in there, left to rot for days all alone.

ARIAS: I`ve been told that I scream and cry in my sleep.

SAMANTHA ALEXANDER, TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S SISTER: The pain, the agony, the screams and fears that Travis must have felt.

STEVEN ALEXANDER: How much did he suffer? How much did he scream? What was the last thing he saw before his eyes closed?

MARTINEZ: Mr. Alexander -- he is dead.

ARIAS: (INAUDIBLE) I`ve woken myself up screaming.

OWENS: Are you ever going to tell the truth about what went down in that bathroom?

ARIAS: I don`t know what you mean by that because I`ve told the truth.

OWENS: OK.

ARIAS: I didn`t know that you were a hater when you came to interview me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That`s from ABC`s "Good Morning America," and that correspondent is with me right now. Ryan Owens.

Let`s take a look at one of the tweets Arias sends out last night, OK? She`s not taking to her cell to lick her wounds. She`s tweeting like mad. "Never trust a reporter who has a nice smile." OK, Ryan, I think she`s flirting with you. Yes, she murdered her last...

OWENS: I`m giving you my best smile.

GRACE: ... boyfriend and -- yes. So you know, be careful. Let`s take another look at Jodi Arias.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At one point, the jury had a question for you, and they said, If you hadn`t been caught, do you think you would have turned yourself in? And are you sorry you got caught? You said you couldn`t answer that at the time.

ARIAS: Well, I couldn`t answer that -- I don`t know if I would turn myself in. I`d like to think that I would because that would be the right thing to do. On the other hand, it`s -- can you imagine willingly giving up your freedom? That`s a difficult decision to make.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you wouldn`t have done it?

ARIAS: I can`t say that I wouldn`t have. I can`t say that I would have. I really -- I still don`t know the answer to that question. And as far as being sorry that I got caught, I wouldn`t couch it like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And the Jodi Arias show just keeps on rolling. She gave those interviews all through the night. You can see more of that particular interview at ABC15.com.

But I want to read you one more quick tweet. She said, "I would have signed a plea, a guilty plea, years ago to avoid this disaster, but I was refused a plea, and the family refused to settle."

The family, Travis Alexander`s family, refused to settle. So even in her tweets, she`s blaming Travis Alexander and his bereaved family.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I just hope people can get closure. That`s the goal for me. I want them to be able to get closure, get peace.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Travis`s family.

ARIAS: Yes, very much.

SAMANTHA ALEXANDER: Samantha, Travis is dead.

STEVEN ALEXANDER: Steven, Travis is dead.

ARIAS: I never meant to cause them so much pain.

SAMANTHA ALEXANDER: ... images of our poor brother`s throat slit from ear to ear.

STEVEN ALEXANDER: I thought my brother was bulletproof.

ARIAS: I hope it is for them. I don`t know if it`s possible. I wish I could just wave a wand and make it possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. We are live and camped out at the courthouse, taking your calls. Deadlock! The jury comes in and tells the judge, We just can`t get along. This as they come through almost six months of Jodi Arias on trial. And at the very end, they`re not crossing the finish line one way or the other.

But into the night last night, after making her presentation to the jury, saying they should spare her life so she can sell T-shirts, she goes on to give repeated jailhouse interviews in front of lights, camera and action.

With me, Ryan Owens, the ABC News correspondent who interviewed Jodi Arias. She called him a hater when he asked her a tough question. Ryan Owens, what did you learn? What did you learn last night behind bars with Jodi Arias?

OWENS: Well, I mentioned, first of all, the sense of entitlement that she has, that she can`t believe you would dare ask challenging questions even in a respectful way. That`s one thing.

But the other thing is how she really talks in circles. I mean, I said, Listen, Jodi, you gave this long speech to the jury, your final -- your swan song begging for your life. And you never even said "I`m sorry" to Travis`s family. How is that possible?

And she said, Oh, no, no, I said I`m sorry. And then I said, Oh, no, you didn`t. And then she starts with, Well, I`m sorry, then, I didn`t say I`m sorry, but just so you know, no one really believes anything that comes out of my mouth, so I`m not sure "I`m sorry" would have really meant anything.

GRACE: OK, my head`s about to blow off...

OWENS: So you get this circular logic.

GRACE: ... just hearing it, going around and around and around, just like her testimony on the stand.

Matt Zarrell, though, I`m taking some comfort in the last woman put on death row. How long was that jury out? They came out and told the judge they couldn`t reach a verdict. What happened?

ZARRELL: Well, Nancy, they did eventually reach a verdict and they reached a verdict and gave her the death penalty. And as Robert Blecker pointed out, the same exact jury instruction was given to them that was given to the jury this afternoon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you still disagree, you may wish to tell the attorneys and me which issues, questions, law (ph) or facts you would like us to assist you with.

ARIAS: To this day, I can hardly believe I was capable of such violence, but I know that I was.

When I was little, my mom took a lot of pictures of me.

I`m not going to become a mother because of my own terrible choices. As it now stands, I`ll never create another oil painting.

And when Samantha showed us the last picture that she took of Travis, I know it`s because of me that that will always be the last picture that she`ll ever take of Travis. And for that, I`m going to be sorry for the rest of my life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At this time, please go back to the jury room and continue deliberating. You are excused.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Deadlocked, that`s the word out of the Phoenix courthouse. Will this jury deadlock a hung jury? They can`t reach a decision. Life or death for Jodi Arias. But unlike many jurisdictions where if the jury deadlocks at this phase, it`s an automatic life behind bars -- not so here. This jury will be simply taken out with the wash and a new jury will be selected only to repeat the sentencing phase of this trial.

We are live and taking your calls. Last night, after everybody went home from the courthouse, most of you were asleep, I was putting the twins to bed, Jodi Arias was still at work, giving TV interviews on a satellite TV tour behind bars, complete with hair and make-up that she demanded, even calling the shots, literally refusing to allow camera people to shoot her from the waist down so as not to expose her prison blues. Jodi Arias took to the air waves. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you mentally, emotionally ready to meet your maker if that`s their decision?

ARIAS: Well, I`m ready to meet my maker, but if that time should come. But if that`s their decision, it would drag on for years and years. So it`s not really contemporaneous. Do you know what I mean?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re saying you have a lot more time. Even if you get death, you still have years to live is what you`re saying.

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If the jury comes back and they give you death, do you think about what that moment would be like?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When they put the needle in your arm? You have thought about that?

ARIAS: I haven`t thought about that. No, not at all. Not in great detail.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What have you thought about pertaining to that?

ARIAS: I thought about more like the moments immediately following the announcement of the verdict. And I have a pretty clear idea of what`s going to happen at that point. So at that point it`ll just be taking it day by day and seeing where things go.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you really mentally haven`t even gone there.

ARIAS: No, I haven`t. It`s more like I`ll cross that bridge if and when I come to it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: She goes on to trash Travis Alexander and his family, her murder victim and his family. You can see more of that particular interview at abc15.com.

Everybody, we are live and taking your calls. Out to Jean Casarez standing by at the courthouse. The jury deadlocked. It`s hard to believe. What have you observed, Jean?

CASAREZ: Well, Nancy, they haven`t given up. They continue to deliberate, but I was in that courtroom today, and I saw the attorneys come out and the judge come out, and I think what went through my mind was that, oh, they`re going to call for a recess or lunch or something, and then I hear, the jury, you cannot come to a unanimous decision. So I was really surprised. Shocked, actually. The jury just seemed focused and intense, though. I didn`t see that anger that I`ve seen in some juries where they really can`t reach a decision, and the judge gave them that instruction, they went back in, that`s the last we`ve heard from them.

GRACE: Jean Casarez, what do you mean they didn`t look angry? What did they look like?

CASAREZ: They just looked serious and focused. You know, Nancy, I`ve seen jurors, when they get to that point that they can`t reach a unanimous decision or even a recommendation that they can decide upon, they`re angry, they`re defiant. It`s like I`m not going to work with you anymore. I`ve seen that in jurors. I didn`t see that today. And, Nancy, they continue to deliberate. They haven`t given up. So I`m right in what I saw, just a serious focus. They continue.

GRACE: Out to you, Alexis Weed, also at the Phoenix courthouse. Alexis, what was the reaction in the courtroom when the words deadlock or can`t reach a verdict rung out?

WEED: It was striking, Nancy. And particularly from the Alexander family, you could see it all over their faces. They came back with those words and their faces went very -- a lot of sorrow expressed in their faces. They looked so concerned that there might be a stumbling block here and they might not get an answer.

GRACE: And you know it`s amazing to me, Susan Constantine, jury consultant, body language expert. This jury has no idea that Arias is playing them, playing them like a fiddle. She makes this presentation to their face talking about how she should live because she`s going to sell her t-shirts. And then trashes them, says they betrayed her. Trashes her own lawyers, trashes Travis` family, goes on and on and on the minute she gets out of the courthouse. They have no idea what she really is.

CONSTANTINE: Now, you know, Nancy, and here`s the thing, when it`s all over, said and done, what is going to happen is they`re going to turn on their television set and they`re going to be able to see all this information and all these videos that they were never able to see. Can you imagine what that must be like, that when they were sitting there in that jury box and during deliberation about what`s going on on the outside world. And you know, I wonder at this point in time, you know, if they do come to an agreement here is that what they might be thinking about Jodi Arias and would that actually change their mind or their opinion about her after seeing everything that we have seen on the outside.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Robert Blecker, Eleanor Odom, defense attorney out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Peter Odom. Robert, what do you make of her plea to the jury as it is juxtaposed against her satellite TV tour last night into the evening?

BLECKER: Well, her plea to the jury, of course, is spare me because I`m worth keeping alive. It`s all about what she can accomplish in the future. For some of us who are in favor of the death penalty on the grounds of moral blameworthiness, the future is not what counts. What counts is the past, what she did and what she deserves because of what she did. Now, I know you and I part company on that, though we`re both very much in favor of the death penalty.

My guess is what I make of the jury deadlock is that they`re going to continue to be deadlocked or I predict they`ll find life. I cannot imagine that people who feel as I, who are in favor of the death penalty but not for her, are going to be convinced by their fellow jurors if their initial inclination was to find that the mitigating circumstances are sufficient that they`ll be converted. I could imagine a unanimous jury verdict of death, -- of life, but I cannot imagine a unanimous jury verdict of death.

GRACE: You know, Eleanor Odom, a death penalty case is very, very tricky proposition. However, if we learn that one of these jurors is morally opposed to the death penalty, what could happen?

E. ODOM: Well, Nancy, I mean that could be -- that could be an issue for appeal. Because maybe they were not truthful the very first time when we had jury selection. They are supposed to be telling the truth. And if they didn`t make that assertion then, then it could throw out a lot of things.

GRACE: Well, what I`m getting at, Peter Odom, because if there is someone on that jury that is morally opposed to the death penalty, would not give it under any circumstance and wiggle their way onto this jury, that person can be thrown off the jury and an alternate put in. Because if that`s true, there`s not going to be an appeal.

P. ODOM: If that`s, of course, we find out during deliberations. But I`ll tell you something, Nancy, the fact that this jury came back after only two and a half hours of deliberation and claimed that they were deadlocked tells me that there is sharp conflict, probably personality conflict, within the jury. So I agree that it`s going to be hard for them to reach a verdict.

GRACE: Wait a minute. You put yourself through three years of law school to tell me there`s a conflict in jury deliberations, Peter?

P. ODOM: No, Nancy, after two and a half hours--

GRACE: I think I knew that.

P. ODOM: -- a significant, sharp conflict, significant, sharp personality conflict.

GRACE: Sharp conflict. All right.

P. ODOM: Right.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: This is the worst mistake of my life. It`s the worst thing I`ve ever done, it`s the worst thing I ever could have seen myself doing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t want to have to see my brother`s murderer anymore.

ARIAS: Steven said he doesn`t want to look at his brother`s murderer anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think you deserve to die?

ARIAS: Well, I don`t know that it`s about deserving, because we all do. Eventually. I just don`t know -- I can`t say what I deserve. Because it sounds so entitled, and that`s not really my attitude. I just know that I just don`t want to hurt people anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You did say that you preferred death at one point, and then today, because of your family, you said I wouldn`t want to put them through that. So at one point, it seemed as though you were thinking about death and preferring the death penalty.

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have thought about it?

ARIAS: Yes, it`s about degree. Yes. Just the fact that I mean, I believe we`re eternal, and in a sense it`s kind of like, well if my life is over, why be a burden to my family? Why be a burden to the system? Why not just remove myself from this picture and move on?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who convinced you? Did your family say, look, you have a life worth living?

ARIAS: My cousin convinced me. She -- the way she said it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did she say to you?

ARIAS: She said that regardless of what happens, there`s still a lot of hope and a lot of things that can be done, and don`t do that to your mom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: There`s more of that interview at abc15.com. With us tonight, Ryan Owens, the ABC News correspondent that also interviewed Arias. Ryan, startlingly, she said after all of her discussion in front of the jury about how devout of a Mormon she is, except for the whole anal sex part before marriage, she suddenly announced that she no longer believes in hell. That`s convenient. That`s convenient. Now that you`re facing the death penalty, suddenly there`s no devil to worry about. How did that come up? And what happened to all the Mormon upbringing -- I mean, Mormon teachings that she espoused? This was such an integral part of her relationship with Travis Alexander.

OWENS: Well, you won`t be surprised to hear this. This is one Mormon teaching she still believes in. She does not believe in the death penalty. She was very, very clear about that.

GRACE: Well, you mean the thou shalt not kill part of the First Commandment in the Ten Commandments? All right. Well, someone needs to reshow her a picture of Travis Alexander dead in the shower.

OK. Back to you, Jean Casarez. A lot of talk about the death penalty being taken off the table. I`m getting a flood of e-mails and calls about it. I don`t know anything about the death penalty being taken off the table. I don`t see Martinez backing down.

CASAREZ: Not at all. Because here`s what happens. Worst case scenario, if this deliberating jury suddenly says we cannot have a unanimous decision here, what happens is, the jury will be excused, a new jury will be empanelled.

GRACE: Exactly, and that will take a period of time, because all the lawyers have to develop a new strategy to convey what happened in sentencing phase, because the new jury will not be privy to all of the facts. You`re exactly right again, Jean Casarez.

Everybody, I want to go out to Clancy Talbot, a very dear friend of Travis Alexander. Arias actually confronted her in a jealous rage. She was just friends with Alexander, there was no dating, there was no romantic relationship. They were just chumming around is my understanding with a group of people at a Prepaid Legal event.

Clancy, welcome back. Please listen to what Arias had to say last night outside the jury`s hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That day in that bathroom when you feared for your life as you say you did, before you dropped the camera, what were the last words Travis said to you?

ARIAS: I don`t remember the -- it was just idle chitchat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like what?

ARIAS: We were talking about the pictures, you know, oh, no, that`s one`s good, we`ll keep that one, we`ll delete that one. OK. Just common stuff pertaining to that situation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And he went from that to I`m going to kill you over a camera?

ARIAS: It wasn`t instantaneous. It built within a matter of minutes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: What a crock of B.S. You can see more of that interview, abc15.com. They were having and I`m quoting, idle chitchat. Yes, we were having idle chitchat, then he tried to kill me. That`s crazy. That didn`t happen. She`s lying right into the face of the TV interviewer. Just like she lied to the jury. But the jury will never know any of this. Does that irritate you?

CLANCY TALBOT, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: It irritates me to no end. And one of the things that I heard her say, which is so telling of her manipulation, when one of the reporters asked her, so if you look at all of these things that you`ve put up for you to live, why do you think those are important? She says, if you look at them one at a time, they`re maybe not so important. But if you take one and maybe one juror is -- thinks about this as important, maybe they`re passionate about that. She basically said I only put those things up all separately because they`re going to touch different jurors in a different way and hopefully save her life.

GRACE: I heard that.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: She said basically the t-shirt was to reach any jurors that were concerned about domestic violence. Then she talked about recycling, hoping that somebody on that jury is into that. Then she talked about her family. She went on and on and on. She even brings up Travis` grandmother that many people believe she shoved right into the grave. She even touched on that cord, invoking people on the jury, memory of their grandmother. I mean, this is incredibly manipulative.

TALBOT: That is Jodi, that is classic Jodi. And I noticed several times she referred, when they asked her about the Alexander family, she referred to them as, well, I hope people can find some peace, and kept referring to them as people. So that was frustrating, too.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Welcome back. We are live and taking your calls. Back out to Alexis Weed. Alexis, is it true that Arias said she did not like the media, that she was not even aware of the media, but yet she was able to go through a long list of media and decide which ones she wanted to talk to, and which ones she didn`t. Needless to say, she did not want to talk to the Nancy Grace show.

WEED: Right, she was asked if she enjoys this media attention. And she said well, no, I`m not even really aware of it. But yet, when the PIO came off, the information officer, she -- Arias was able to go through and cross off which media she didn`t want to talk to and which one she did.

GRACE: Straight to Eris Huemer, psychotherapist, DrEris.com. Doctor, thank you for being with us. I would like your analysis of what you`re observing about Jodi Arias.

HUEMER: Well, the thing is, she is so calculating. She knows exactly what she is going to say. She sits in her cell, she imagines in her mind exactly how the story played out. It has already played out in three, four, even more scenarios. And now, she is believing her story once again, which she always does, that she is a victim of domestic violence. She is a victim and everyone has done her wrong.

The woman is mentally ill. As an average person, I would look at her and she infuriates me. I don`t like her. But as a mental health professional, I have to look at her and say she is mentally disturbed and she needs help.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Sergeant Aaron Kramer, 22, Salt Lake City, Utah. Bronze Star, Army Commendation Medal, Army Achievement Medal, parents Rick and Shannon. Twin brother Brandon. Sister Jennifer. Wife, Jackie. Aaron Kramer, American hero.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (inaudible), were you documenting at that point?

ARIAS: That is just something we did. I had never done that with any guy before. And he wanted to. And at that point I was probably willing to -- I was really a dumb girl at that time. I was probably willing to do anything for him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: More of that interview, abc15.com. Out to the lines. Marge in Michigan. Hi, Marge, what is your question?

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I wonder if there has been a change in the law in Arizona regarding people on death row or life in prison. Because she had all of these things that she was going to do, you know, teaching deaf people, sign language, book clubs, recycling. Wouldn`t it -- she would not be a part of the general population under the law, would she? Or has that changed?

GRACE: Good question, where would she be, Matt Zarrell?

ZARRELL: Well, if she is sentenced to death, Nancy, she would be in a single cell by herself for probably about 23 hours a day, as opposed to general population, where she would have a little more access to common areas and be able to interact with other inmates. And then the important thing is Arias kind of implied that she would be working on her appeal if she got death, so she would be too busy to help anybody else.

GRACE: Sandy from North Carolina, hi, Sandy, what is your question?

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. First of all, I`d like to say thank you for taking my call and I admire your work for being the voice for the voiceless.

I was wondered if the jury is deadlocked, and they come back, and will Juan Martinez take the death penalty off and not put the family back through this, or will he fight tooth and nail to get it?

GRACE: Jean Casarez, I think he will keep fighting, what do you think?

CASAREZ: I think he will. I don`t think it will only be his decision, though. There is a county attorney that is elected. It`s costing the taxpayers a lot of money, but also I think the Alexander family will be consulted.

GRACE: Eleanor, you have tried a lot of death penalty cases. What would you do with a deadlock?

E. ODOM: Well, I think I would do the penalty phase again, Nancy, but let`s just keep one thing in mind. Seven hours is not that long to deliberate on a death penalty case.

GRACE: You know what, Eleanor, you`re right.

Everybody, the people have left the courthouse. The jury has gone home. Arias is back in her cell block, done for the day. But we`ll be back bright and early tomorrow morning. Dr. Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END