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Nancy Grace
Accident or Boyfriend Murder?; George Zimmerman on Trial
Aired May 28, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Orlando. Add equal parts of a single blond, gorgeous real estate broker with a handsome, successful but very married boyfriend who`s got a wife and four daughters and a burgeoning business installing high-end pools in luxury mansions all over Florida, plus a booze-fueled evening and a .38 caliber, what do you get? A blood-soaked mattress and a murder charge -- I guess a real Florida housewife.
Bombshell tonight. But does the 911 call give a clue her story about an intruder is a lie?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARYN KELLEY, CHARGED WITH MURDER: (INAUDIBLE) I need an ambulance! (INAUDIBLE) the gun!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First she said it was self-defense.
911 OPERATOR: Did he shoot himself? Yes or no?
KELLEY: No, no! It was like...
911 OPERATOR: Who shot him?
KELLEY: (INAUDIBLE) self-defense (INAUDIBLE) It was an accident! It was an accident!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then she told them she accidentally shot her boyfriend.
911 OPERATOR: Did you have the gun?
KELLEY: I did, but it was an accident!
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She told them she shot an intruder in her house.
KELLEY: (INAUDIBLE) I wake up in the middle of the night, and somebody`s in my house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She told police he shot himself.
KELLEY: I didn`t shoot him. He took the gun and shot himself. He put a gun to his head! (INAUDIBLE) just let me do it! He was joking! But boom, it went off!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Caryn Kelley swears she didn`t pull the trigger.
KELLEY: (INAUDIBLE) and it went off. I`m, like, Oh, my God. I didn`t ever mean to do that. Is he OK? Is he living?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, live to Sanford. A 17-year-old heads home to his dad`s condo, gunned down by the captain of the neighborhood watch, the trial judge smackdown on the Zimmerman defense camp in the Trayvon Martin murder trial.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Are you following him?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, CHARGED WITH MURDER: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK, we don`t need you to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He had an intent in his mind, and he carried out the intent.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) shot him (INAUDIBLE) laying on the ground!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Zimmerman has made the statement of self- defense.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that true?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t believe that it was an accident.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. O`Meara is the number one quarterback that we have from the draft.
GRACE: I think it`s time for a Hail Mary. Have you even seen him since this happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I haven`t. But I can -- like your viewers and like you saw on the video, it is clear...
GRACE: Yes, and I said I can`t tell if it`s a gash or if it`s dirt or a bruise.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About his injuries, they happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t see any evidence (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had a .9-millimeter gun. Trayvon Martin had a bag of Skittles.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hear "coon," and the other time I hear "goon."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s saying, "It`s F-ing cold."
GRACE: I didn`t hear cold. I hear him say (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I heard that, OK? I don`t need NASA to tell me what I heard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Live to Orlando. Add equal parts of a gorgeous blond realtor, a successful but married boyfriend, a booze-fueled evening and a .38, what do you get? A blood-soaked mattress and a murder charge against a for-real Florida housewife.
We are live and taking your calls. But I want to go out to Deborah Roberts, news anchor, Florida News Network. Her 911 call alone could convince a jury -- could convince a jury -- she`s lying. But I don`t know if it`s enough to carry the day. Tell me what happened.
DEBORAH ROBERTS, FLORIDA NEWS NETWORK: Well, what happened on the early morning hours of July 27th, 2011, Caryn Kelley called 911 to report that her gun had just gone off in her house and that her boyfriend just died, and then he`s bleeding, and he needs an ambulance.
So even her request for help contains within it a few different threads. And then her explanation to police continues to follow that by first saying, No, no, it was a self-defense thing. Then it was an accident. And then he killed himself.
GRACE: Let`s take a listen to the 911 call.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
KELLEY: Oh, my God! Hello? Hello? 911! Where? Hello? Is this 911?
911 OPERATOR: This is 911. OK, you need to stop screaming, so I can hear you.
KELLEY: I need 911! Oh, my God! Oh, my God! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! No! Oh! Oh! Oh, my God! My gun went off in the house. My boyfriend just died! He`s bloody. He needs an ambulance! 911!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: My gun went off, OK? Go ahead.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Ma`am, listen to me. I need you to calm down so I can understand what`s going on. What`s wrong with your boyfriend?
KELLEY: What?
911 OPERATOR: What is wrong with your boyfriend?
KELLEY: What? You need to come here right away! I need you right away!
911 OPERATOR: OK, listen to me. I understand (INAUDIBLE) Stop screaming so I can understand you and send you help. What`s going on?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: No, I don`t want to answer the question! I don`t want to tell you what happened. I just want to keep screaming.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
KELLEY: Hurry! Hurry! He`s not breathing! (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK, listen to me. Listen to me. I`m going to transfer you to the paramedics. They`re going to give you CPR instructions, OK? Don`t hang up. Don`t hang up, OK?
KELLEY: I need to know what to do!
911 OPERATOR: Listen to me. I`m going to transfer you. Don`t hang up.
KELLEY: Oh, my God! No! No! My baby! My baby, I love you so much.
911 OPERATOR: Orlando Fire Department.
911 OPERATOR: This is a transfer (INAUDIBLE)
KELLEY: Please! Oh, God!
911 OPERATOR: This is the fire department. What`s the address of the emergency?
KELLEY: Hurry! He`s dying! Come on!
911 OPERATOR: (INAUDIBLE) are you calling me from? What`s your phone number?
KELLEY: What`s my phone number?
911 OPERATOR: Is it (INAUDIBLE)
KELLEY: Yes! Yes! Yes! Come quick! (INAUDIBLE) Help him! Baby! Baby! Oh, my God! I don`t know what to do! I don`t...
911 OPERATOR: OK...
KELLEY: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Tell me exactly what happened.
KELLEY: Hurry! (INAUDIBLE) here quick!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Baby, baby! Help, help! Hurry! I love you! Go ahead.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
KELLEY: Help, help, help! Oh, look! Oh, my God!
911 OPERATOR: OK, ma`am, I`m sending the paramedics to you now.
KELLEY: Right away! Right away! Please, please, please!
911 OPERATOR: OK, how old is he?
KELLEY: Forty-six. Come quick!
911 OPERATOR: Hey, OFD, hold on just a second. Did he shoot himself?
KELLEY: I don`t know what to do!
911 OPERATOR: Listen to me. Did he shoot himself? Yes or no?
KELLEY: No! No! It was, like...
911 OPERATOR: Who shot him?
KELLEY: ... like a self-defense thing, and then it was an accident. It was an accident (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Did you have the gun?
KELLEY: I did, but it was an accident.
911 OPERATOR: OK. I understand it`s an accident. Where`s the gun now?
KELLEY: On the floor in my bedroom!
911 OPERATOR: OK, where are you now?
KELLEY: In my bedroom with him!
911 OPERATOR: OK. We`re going to get the police and paramedics on the way, OK?
KELLEY: Come on! Hurry!
911 OPERATOR: What`s your name?
KELLEY: Really quick!
911 OPERATOR: What`s your name?
KELLEY: Come on! Please!
911 OPERATOR: What`s your name?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: The gun went off, it was self-defense, but then it turned into an accident, then I did it, baby, baby, baby, I love you. Go ahead.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: The paramedics are responding. Is he awake right now?
KELLEY: I don`t know! No! No, he`s not!
911 OPERATOR: He`s not awake.
KELLEY: He`s not responding! He`s all covered in blood! Hurry!
911 OPERATOR: OK, the paramedics...
KELLEY: Oh, my God!
911 OPERATOR: The paramedics are on their way (INAUDIBLE) Is he breathing?
KELLEY: I don`t know!
911 OPERATOR: Ma`am, is he breathing?
KELLEY: Baby?
911 OPERATOR: Ma`am, are you on the line?
KELLEY: I can`t even tell! Baby! No, he`s not responding at all!
911 OPERATOR: OK, is he breathing, though?
KELLEY: Come on, baby! Come on, baby! Stay with me! Come on, honey! Come on! Oh, my God! Baby!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Burke Strunsky, senior deputy DA, author of "The Humanity of Justice," Marla Chicotsky, defense attorney, Miami, Danny Cevallos, defense attorney, New York.
All right, first to you, Cevallos. She`s changed her story that I could count -- and the 911 call isn`t even over yet. There`s more. But so far, one, two, three, four. There`s four stories in the 911 call. What you going to do?
DANNY CEVALLOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, being a liar does not make you a killer. She still has to be proven to be a killer. And by the way, we`ve acknowledged that if this is a case of a battered woman, this is someone who might be...
GRACE: Put him up!
CEVALLOS: We`ve acknowledged that women change stories to avoid...
GRACE: Put him up!
CEVALLOS: ... getting their abuser in trouble.
GRACE: Don`t go Jodi Arias on me! Nobody has said battered woman. Nobody has said that. In fact, this guy`s --
CEVALLOS: People deny crimes (ph).
GRACE: I keep hearing something in my ear. Oh, it`s you.
CEVALLOS: I`m buzzing.
GRACE: Actually, the reality is that he`s got a girlfriend, another girlfriend he`s trying to get back with. He is not beating her. That has never once been raised. He`s actually trying to get back with his old girlfriend.
All right, what about it, Chicotsky?
MARLA CHICOTSKY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think in this case, it`s something maybe about self-defense, where she thought there was an intruder, and then that`s why she grabbed for the gun. But then she does say...
GRACE: Put her up, please!
CHICOTSKY: ... No, no, it was an accident. So I mean...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: No, no, no. Did you say you think it`s a defense where she thought it was an intruder, and then what? What did you say?
CHICOTSKY: I think that there is a defense if you think that there`s someone intruding into your house and you grab a gun, and then it`s dark and you shoot at them. There is a defense for that.
GRACE: Really? What about the fact that there was stippling, that there was tattooing around the gunshot wound to the right cheek? She was that close, the gun was on his face, and she still didn`t know it was the man she was sleeping with, Marla?
CHICOTSKY: Well, Nancy, you know when there`s a struggle, people are grabbing at the gun. It could be going in one direction or another. And that`s where the experts are going to come in. The medical examiners are going to say, really, who had the vantage point...
GRACE: OK, let me just try to...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... pin you down, Marla. I want to pin you down, but I don`t want to pull your wings off. Marla, what did you say...
CHICOTSKY: Thank you.
GRACE: ... the defense was? Intruder? Self-defense? What was your defense?
CHICOTSKY: Well, in her conflicting testimony, it could be an intruder situation. It could be in self-defense.
GRACE: All right, intruder...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You`ve got to pick. All right, Burke...
CHICOTSKY: But she doesn`t know who it is.
GRACE: ... Strunsky -- Burke Strunsky, does it help at all that a neighbor heard her scream out -- and this is a pretty nice area. She`s got a really nice house, got a nice life going on. She is a very successful and very well known realtor. You know those realtors that, like, have their pictures up on billboards and everybody knows who they are? They`re kind of like local celebrities. OK. Everybody knows this woman.
Would it help, Burke, if a neighbor heard her say that she was -- heard her yelling at him, not -- to her married boyfriend, not to leave that night, but if he came back, she had a gun and she knew how to use it?
BURKE STRUNSKY, SR. DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I think that would help the prosecution tremendously. And I`m surprised that the prosecution went off the murder two charge slightly before trial. If you believe...
GRACE: OK, let`s just stick to that...
STRUNSKY: ... the prosecution theory...
GRACE: Let`s just stick to that -- that -- that threat that she yelled out. Everybody`s drunk. He`s a -- I think he`s a 1.1, the legal limit is 0.08. She -- Clark, what`s her blood alcohol, quickly, Clark Goldband?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, Nancy, it was never taken, so we don`t know.
GRACE: Then how do we know she`s drunk? Oh, yes. OK. Is everybody sitting down? Maybe you should lay down for this.
Let`s see the cell phone video, please, Liz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLEY: It went off! Oh, my God, what a nightmare! Oh, my God!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this spontaneous or...
KELLEY: Huh?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) what happened.
KELLEY: This is a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) nightmare! I can`t believe this!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you OK here, your arm? Your left arm is bloody?
KELLEY: No, I put this on my sheet (ph) as I was coming out. I tried to -- fell down on the ground. Oh, my God! Oh, my God! My boyfriend!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s your name?
KELLEY: Caryn.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: She can`t even talk, she`s slurring her words so badly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLEY: Please tell me he`s going to be OK!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
KELLEY: He grabbed my arm, and I said, (INAUDIBLE) Don`t do this! Then he got...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
KELLEY: No, he was talking about leaving and I said, Don`t leave, don`t drive drunk, you`re stupid if you leave. And he came back and I got (INAUDIBLE) drunk. And I said, Come back in the house. I mean, I have (INAUDIBLE) you know, I have a weapon, and you know I`m going to use it, and you`re (INAUDIBLE) my house (INAUDIBLE) I wake up in the middle of the night and somebody`s in my house. And I said, Phillip, you know I`ve got a weapon. So don`t do this!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What were you guys fighting about?
(CROSSTALK)
KELLEY: He shot himself. He shot himself! He put a gun to his head and he says, Just let me do it. He was joking. But boom, it went off! (INAUDIBLE) stupid!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police released this cell phone video recorded by investigators at Kelley`s house the night of the shooting.
KELLEY: He grabbed my arm, and I said, Don`t, don`t do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) drinking and an argument took place.
KELLEY: (INAUDIBLE) and it went off. I`m, like, Oh, my God. I didn`t ever mean to do that. Is he OK? Is he living?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. The controversy is stirring in this small jurisdiction where a real-life Florida housewife has her future on the line. Police claim that she gunned down her married lover after he left. She told him, Don`t leave, don`t leave, don`t leave. When he comes back in, in her words, I will quote the suspect, "Ba-boom!" That`s what happened.
Now, we were talking about everybody`s blood alcohol. It sounds like a whole big drunk to me, and it ends with a bloody mattress. But let`s take a look at the suspect the night her boyfriend is shot dead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does he live here with you?
KELLEY: No. But he came in, and he was (INAUDIBLE) pushing me (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
KELLEY: Tell me he`s going to be OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s your name? What is your name?
KELLEY: Caryn?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Caryn?
KELLEY: Do you think it`s funny?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing`s funny, ma`am.
KELLEY: You think it`s funny? I`m in (EXPLETIVE DELETED) shock, and you think this is funny!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody`s laughing. You just shot somebody.
KELLEY: Not funny!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody`s laughing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) shot somebody in the head (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLEY: I didn`t shoot him! He took the gun and shot himself!
911 OPERATOR: Who shot him?
KELLEY: (INAUDIBLE) and then it was an accident! It was an accident!
911 OPERATOR: Did you have the gun?
KELLEY: I did, but it was an accident!
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The medical examiner says there was no evidence of a struggle or a suicide. But there was a pool of blood on the bed and blood spatter on the nightstand.
KELLEY: Please, hurry! Hurry! Is he still breathing?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Life or death? She claims five different stories in one 911 call alone. And there`s even more, a police cell phone video.
I want to go out to Joe Gomez, reporter, KRLD. You know what, Joe? I`m so glad because when I was first starting to prosecute cases, we didn`t have video. We didn`t have statements on video, nothing. And the cop could really be tripped up just trying to honestly explain what happened.
But one cop had the wherewithal to flip on his personal cell phone -- let`s see that in the background as we`re talking, Liz -- and get cell phone video of her. And I`m going to go to the shrink in a minute. Dr. Seth Myers (ph) is with us.
But Joe Gomez, I recall distinctly, immediately following a murder in my own life, I was in shock, but I certainly couldn`t enunciate the words "I`m in shock." I didn`t know what was going on, I was so out of it with grief. What happened, Joe?
JOE GOMEZ, NEWSRADIO KRLD: Well, absolutely, Nancy. I mean, we`ve heard the video, we`ve seen the video, we`re watching the video right now. I mean, it`s clearly -- she`s on something.
I would be interested to know if she actually had, you know, some other prescription medication in her system on top of the alcohol, if she was drunk, because she looks like she`s obviously on something.
She claims that her boyfriend came back after a drunken fight in the middle of the night. She grabbed her gun from beneath her bed, and then she confronted him. The details of that we don`t know. She knows what happened, but somehow, her boyfriend wound up, Nancy, with a bullet in his head dead on the floor.
Now she`s going through all these stories. He committed suicide, it was self-defense, the gun went off as an accident. What`s the real answer here? What`s the truth? That`s what we want to find out tonight.
GRACE: Let`s take a look at what we know forensically. This battle is raging right now in a Florida courtroom. I want to warn you, the photos we`re about to show are graphic crime scene photos the jury is seeing. Let`s see what we can determine from the crime scene.
Take me through the scene. Gunshot entry. OK, I can`t tell very much from that. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa! Wait, wait, wait, whoa! The gunshot wound entry -- let me just point out it`s in the right cheek from right to left. And most important, in addition to stippling or tattooing of the gunshot residue, which shows close range or contact, it is at an upward angle. Possibly, this is shot by someone that is smaller, shorter than him, going at an upward angle, front to back, right to left. So it`s going up like that, except toward the back. Close range if not contact, we know that because of the gunshot residue.
Go back to you, Gomez.
GOMEZ: Yes. And so what -- did she shoot him or did he shoot himself? Now, she`s telling police that he had the gun up to his head and that, you know, he pulled the trigger. But I mean, we`re just going to have to wait and find out about that one.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLEY: He`s not responding! He`s all covered in blood! Hurry!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s his name?
KELLEY: Phillip. My boyfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s your boyfriend?
KELLEY: The love of my life!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Caryn Kelley, arrested for shooting and killing her boyfriend, 46-year-old Phillip Peatross, inside her College Park, Florida, home.
KELLEY: Oh, my God! No! No! My baby! My baby!
911 OPERATOR: Orlando Fire Department.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a pool of blood on the bed and blood spatter on the nightstand.
KELLEY: He`s bleeding! Oh, my God! He`s bleeding!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you okay here, your arm? Your left arm is bloody?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I put this on my sheet as I was coming out. I try to -- fell down on the ground. Oh, my God!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are live and taking your calls right now. The courtroom is brewing over, set to explode in the trial of Caryn Kelley. She`s a real-life Florida housewife, seemingly had it all, very well-known, attractive, realtor in the Florida area. After a booze- soaked night with her married boyfriend, also very successful in his own right, installing these high-end swimming pools in mansions all across Florida. You know, like the infinity pools, and then you`ve got the pools with the statues and the whirlpool and the hot tub, the whole shebang. He ends up dead on her bedroom floor. And then one -- there is his compound. Huge, huge home. He needs it for that wife and the four kids.
Turns out he`s trying to get back with another girlfriend when all of this explodes in her home. We are live and taking your calls. But we were talking to the defense attorneys. Marla Chicotsky, Danny Cevallos and deputy D.A. and author out of San Diego, Burke Strunsky about the fact that her blood-alcohol was never taken. But I think this cell phone video taken by police says it all. Take a look. Here she is in interrogation, and here she is that evening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLEY: He took my arm. He took the handle, and he put it to his head. He goes, you want to shoot me? You want to shoot me? I go, don`t do this. It`s loaded. Don`t do this. It`s loaded.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where did you get the gun from?
KELLEY: I got it a long time ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, in the house, where did you get it from?
KELLEY: Under my bed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Under your bed? Why did you take it out?
KELLEY: Because I heard somebody coming in my house after he left. And I didn`t know. I didn`t know who was coming in. He already left. I have had threats from my homeowners association and all that kind of [ EXPLETIVE DELETED]. So I said, don`t come back in here unless you give yourself prior notice. So he came back in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But it`s not official.
KELLEY: I was, like, hey, don`t come here at me, and he was like don`t -- you`re not, and he put it to his -- say you going to shoot me? You going to shoot me? And it went off. Oh, my God! I didn`t ever mean to do that. Is he OK? Is he living?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who was he to you? what`s his name?
KELLEY: Phillip, my boyfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s your boyfriend?
KELLEY: The love of my life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Caryn, how do you spell your name?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The love of my life that was about to go back to his other girlfriend, and then throw a wife and four daughters into the mix. I`m getting a pretty good idea of what happened that night. To Dr. Seth Myers, clinical psychologist, I hear her repeatedly say I`m in shock. I`m in shock.
MEYERS: Right. You know, it`s so interesting, there are a lot of things about this that don`t quite add up. You`re right, Nancy. No one in shock is ever going to be able to articulate the fact that they are in shock. You know, she also shows some hallmark symptoms of lying on that 911 call, tripping over her words, lots of pauses. And I really get the sense that this is somebody who is trying to sound hysterical. This isn`t exactly what hysterical sounds like. This is what trying to sound hysterical sounds like.
GRACE: To Deborah Roberts, news anchor, Florida News Network. Deborah, she stated to police that she had a gun because she had had threats from a guy in her homeowners association. But he took the stand, didn`t he?
ROBERTS: Yes, he did. And actually, it sounds like she was more the aggressor. Apparently Caryn Kelley and her neighbor had fought over a parking space. And that`s why she said that she had the gun and kept it close because she was scared of him. But he said that she had come to his house one time and cussed him out.
GRACE: You know, it`s interesting, Clark Goldband, and Deborah Roberts with Florida News Network is right. She said she needed a gun. This is a serious weapon which we`re going to go into, C.W. Jensen. She had a .38-caliber police style weapon, and she said she needed it to protect herself. There you go. That`s the murder weapon right there. Because this guy had threatened her. But tell me what came out at trial, Clark.
GOLDBAND: Well, Nancy, he`s testifying now in the rebuttal case that there were confrontations over parking issues, and she never seemed afraid of him, and the neighbor says on one occasion Kelley knocked on his door and cursed him out. He also says she popped out of nowhere to scare him on another occasion, also cursing him out. Nancy?
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. All right, Danny Cevallos, she has a gun under her bed because she`s so afraid of the guy in the homeowners association. She`s so afraid, that she goes and knocks on his door, he opens it, she curses him out. What about that?
CEVALLOS: Well, she went and knocked on his window and cursed him out. That`s not the same as having a fear --
GRACE: Or the door.
CEVALLOS: Or the door. That`s not the same as having a fear that somebody`s going to -- she may be defending herself in the sense that she`s going to tell this guy off, but if she`s --
GRACE: What?
CEVALLOS: -- genuinely afraid of the guy, she can have a firearm in the home.
GRACE: Cevallos, did you just hear what you said? She`s so afraid of the guy, she had to defend herself by knocking on his door. When he opens the door, she curses him out? That doesn`t make sense.
CEVALLOS: Nancy, it`s not the same. If she`s arguing with the guy, she may develop a genuine fear for her safety and do what many Americans do, buy a gun and keep it in the home. She wasn`t brandishing it in the neighborhood.
GRACE: You know what?
CEVALLOS: She had an argument with him.
GRACE: Don`t start with me about the right to bear arms. You`re not getting anywhere with me on that. That`s in the Constitution. I`m not arguing with the Constitution tonight. I`m arguing with what this woman says. Is it in our Constitution we can have guns? Fine. But what I`m saying, Chicotsky, is she can`t say, I only had a gun to protect myself from this guy in the homeowners association when on another occasion she jumps out from behind some bushes and goes boo and scares him. She`s not afraid of him. That`s complete B.S.
CHICOTSKY: That`s according to him. Who is there to say that that`s not true? She`s a single female living alone, and she does have the right to have a gun. She could have intruders.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: No, no. This man, the dead guy, was living in and out of the house. What about that, Strunsky?
STRUNSKY: Yes, I don`t think there`s anything that she was doing that was inappropriate in having the gun. It`s that she used the gun that night in a situation where she was not fearful. She would not have feared for her life. She did not believe this was an intruder. She believed this was her boyfriend. She was probably mad at him, she was liquored up, and she used this gun to kill him. So whether she had the right to the gun or why she had the gun is irrelevant.
GRACE: She was, as we say in the legal profession, three sheets to the wind. C.W. Jensen, retired police captain, C.W., what do you know about this .38? What can you tell me?
JENSEN: Well, I would say, you know, most people are familiar, there`s various calibers of guns from, say, a small caliber like a .22 that people might go out and plink and hit cans and stuff like that up to a .45, you know, .40 caliber, larger capacities. But this .38 is what we all carried back in the day on the street. I mean, it`s a very effective weapon. And, you know, depending on where you get hit, it`s fatal, you know. And getting shot in the face, I mean, there`s not a lot of people I`ve seen survive that kind of a devastating injury.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZIMMERMAN: George. He ran.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, George, what`s your last name?
ZIMMERMAN: Zimmerman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s gunshots.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You just heard gunshots?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard the crying. It was a little boy. As soon as the gun went off, the crying stopped.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had a .9-millimeter gun. Trayvon Martin had a bag of Skittles.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George was out of breath. He was barely conscious.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George Zimmerman hunted my son like an animal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. Major smackdown in the Trayvon Martin murder trial today against the defense (inaudible), George Zimmerman. Jean Casarez, out to the courthouse, what happened?
CASAREZ: What a day for the prosecution. There were so many motions in limine (ph) by the prosecution to keep out character evidence of Trayvon Martin. His suspension records, his school police records, the fact that - -
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa.
CASAREZ: -- past marijuana use.
GRACE: Suspension records from high school. What grade was he in?
CASAREZ: He was 17 years old, and he was suspended from high school. That was why he was in Sanford, Florida. He lived in the Miami area. He was suspended for a time period because of --
GRACE: Can I ask you something? Can I ask you something quickly, Jean? What in the hay does a teenage boy getting thrown out of school on suspension have to do with him getting gunned down? What`s the connection?
CASAREZ: And that`s why the prosecution filed the motion, because they said it`s not relevant. This has nothing to do with what happened on February 26th.
GRACE: Why did the defense want to bring it in? Why did the defense want to bring it in?
CASAREZ: The defense said we don`t think it`s relevant either, but if the door is opened, we may want to bring it in. They`re not asking to bring it in at this point.
GRACE: All right, OK. Let me go out to Frank Taaffe, close friend of George Zimmerman, in court today. Taaffe, why does Zimmerman want to bring in that this boy was suspended from school earlier?
FRANK TAAFFE, FRIEND OF ZIMMERMAN: Well, thank you for having me on your show again, Nancy. First of all, Mr. O`Meara wanted to intertwine the fact that the reason why he was up here was on suspension for having a marijuana baggie in school, and other various items. And first of all --
GRACE: Are you talking about the ladies jewelry and the burglary tool? Is that what you`re talking about?
TAAFFE: Yes.
GRACE: I mean, let`s just put it out there. Let me see, Taaffe.
TAAFFE: All right. I`m here. I`m here.
GRACE: Mr. Taaffe, I want to tell you something. There is absolutely no legal reason that that can come into evidence. The only thing -- I do have a concern with the judge`s ruling on one other thing, and this is in Zimmerman`s favor. No. 1, I lose respect when they want to bring in a boy`s history for being thrown out of school. God forbid my son, my baby, would ever get in trouble in school.
TAAFFE: I concur.
GRACE: (INAUDIBLE), no. The fact that Trayvon did have a trace of THC in his blood system, I do have a concern with the judge`s ruling that that not come in. Because -- that means marijuana. Because if the defense is Trayvon was acting erratically and he did all this, the fact that he`s got this in his system could support that.
TAAFFE: Nancy, I`m on the opposite end. Working with young adults with addiction to marijuana, I did not concur with the defense about him acting suspiciously with THC in his system. I`m under the belief that he was going through withdrawals.
GRACE: Why?
TAAFFE: And as you know --
GRACE: Where are you getting that? Are you just coming up with it right now sitting in your seat?
TAAFFE: Well, no, I`m working with youth right now that had -- that go through withdrawals from THC addictions, from other drugs, from other narcotics, even alcoholics.
GRACE: Well, if he had it in his system, Steve Helling --
(CROSSTALK)
TAAFFE: There was one nanoliter that was drawn from the chest blood. And that showed, according to the medical examiner, that showed chronic use of marijuana, even though --
GRACE: All right, hold on, Mr. Taaffe, I get you and all your good works working with children, and I applaud that. I want to go out to Daryl Parks, attorney for Trayvon Martin`s parents. Mr. Parks, can I get a straight answer from somebody? Why was the defense trying to bring in that Trayvon got kicked out of school, suspended for having an empty baggie with marijuana residue in it? What does that have to do with this?
DARYL PARKS, ATTORNEY FOR TRAYVON`S PARENTS: It has absolutely nothing to do with the case, Nancy. I mean, I think Trayvon`s mother and father put it best last week when they saw the evidence coming out that was intentionally being placed by the defense team trying to smear Trayvon`s name.
GRACE: Have you seen that picture? Let me ask you this, Mr. Parks. Have you seen the picture that was on the Internet? Everybody`s talking about hey, if this guy came after you, I`d shoot him, too.
Liz, do we have the picture? Let me see it. I want to see it. I`m glad that you have it, Liz, but I think we`d like to show it on the TV
set. Mr. Parks, did you see -- did you just see this? This was circulating as if this were Trayvon Martin saying that we`re all trying to mislead the public that Trayvon was a boy.
He is a boy. Didn`t he just turn 17?
TAAFFE: Nancy, we`re not here to dehumanize Trayvon. And Mr. Parks would concur, and I agree with a lot of --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: That needs to be left out.
GRACE: Taaffe, I was throwing that to Daryl Parks. Go ahead, sir.
PARKS: Certainly. They did several things, Nancy. And even in open court today, Mark O`Meara, he said that we intend to try this case upon marijuana use. We want to bring up the guns issue and his propensity for fighting.
Now, the only thing that matters legally in this case, Nancy, is what happened during the seven-minute interaction that George Zimmerman was following and going after Trayvon Martin.
GRACE: Mr. Parks, Mr. Parks, Mr. Parks --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: -- the only way -- and I`ve tried more of these than I can even count -- the only way, if Trayvon Martin did have a reputation for violence, or for starting fights, if he did -- and I don`t know that did -- but if he did, the only way that can come into evidence is if the defendant knows of the reputation.
It`s like this, Mr. Parks. If I see -- who`s the heavyweight champion I was talking about -- Mike Tyson. If I see Mike Tyson walk into this room and put his hands up, yes, I`ll shoot him, because I know his reputation for violence.
PARKS: Right. He didn`t know him.
GRACE: Mr. Zimmerman didn`t know Trayvon.
PARKS: Not at all.
GRACE: So that`s not going to come in.
Please tell me, Jean Casarez, that that`s not coming in.
CASAREZ: All right, the judge has said it`s not coming in. Here`s what I understand case law says in the state of Florida. Since George Zimmerman did not know Trayvon Martin, you`re exactly right. Specific instances of fighting or anything in that area cannot come in, because it can`t form the basis of the state of mind of George Zimmerman.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: The courtroom erupting today in the Trayvon Martin pre-trial hearing. To Steve Helling, writer with People magazine. Steve, this is what Zimmerman has got going for him, the lacerations to the back of his head, that`s going to make it look like mutual combat, even though he was following Trayvon Martin to start with. What can you tell me about the blows to the back of the head. Are they for real?
HELLING: Yes. They are for real. Obviously there was some sort of contact on the back of his head. And what we`ll have to find out is exactly what happened that night, but yes, there`s no question that there were some injuries sustained by George Zimmerman. Nobody`s saying that isn`t true. But the matter is who instigated that? Who started that? And that is what is going to come out in court.
GRACE: To Dr. Bill Manion, ME out of Philly tonight, Dr. Manion, what do you make of the lacerations to the back of Zimmerman`s head?
MANION: Well, Mr. Zimmerman said that his head was pushed onto the ground by Trayvon, and that laceration would be consistent with that story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Staff Sergeant Keith Bishop, 28, Medford, New York. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Commendation Medal, parents Bob and Sue, brother Steve, sisters Janis, Janine and twin Kim. Widow, Maggie. Keith Bishop, American hero.
And now, back to the Trayvon Martin pre-trial eruption in court today. Dr. Bill Manion was just talking about the injuries to the back of Zimmerman`s head, but to you, Daryl Parks, you`re the attorney for Trayvon Martin`s parents. Frank Taaffe, friend of Zimmerman, with us. Daryl Parks, what is the explanation for the wounds to the back of Zimmerman`s head? I want to hear it from you.
TAAFFE: Nancy, I don`t think it matters about the head injury that he had. At the end of the day, we all know how this incident started. Trayvon was a pedestrian walking from the store, going back to his father`s girlfriend`s house. There is no way, shape, or form that George Zimmerman should have gotten out of that truck. He was the aggressor.
Now, that`s important, because a guy walking from the store cannot cause harm to a guy who`s in a truck. So George made a decision to get out of the truck. He said that Trayvon looked suspicious to him. And he made the decision to go after Trayvon. That`s the most important part. That`s the aggression. The fact that Trayvon had to fight for his life when George got out of the truck, that`s a moot point. He should have fought for his life. Mr. Zimmerman had a gun.
GRACE: OK. Let`s hear it, Taaffe.
TAAFFE: Daryl, that`s strong, man. That`s insignificant, the injury to the back of his head? You all were screaming for blood last year. We showed the picture, we got blood. What is more significant is that ground zero, which was my house, had -- what was Trayvon doing up in my yard looking in my window, number one? Number two, George was on his way to the Target and he shared with the 911 dispatcher that he looked suspicious, he was looking up in the houses. Did you not hear that? I`m sure you did, Daryl. I mean, you`re a good attorney.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I`ve got a question. Daryl Parks, Mr. Parks, and I don`t -- you`ve listened to the 911, you`ve listened to the dispatch call. Do you believe that Zimmerman used a racial slur?
PARKS: I think the mere fact that he said that these assholes always get away with it. Nancy--
TAAFFE: It`s not a racial slur.
(CROSSTALK)
PARKS: It`s a very negative slur, though. For him to say just a young black man walking--
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Wait a minute, guys. Wait a minute. The only issue is to what Parks is saying, Taaffe is going to motive. Whether it`s a calling him an ass or calling him a racial slur that I don`t even want to say because it`s inciting. Both of those go to motive, either one of them. OK. We`ll pick it up, everybody, court is done in Florida for tonight. But Dr. Drew`s up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
