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Nancy Grace
Cop on Trial for Murder of Estranged Wife
Aired June 03, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you murder her?
BRETT SEACAT, CHARGED WITH MURDER: No!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You need to come and get your boys before something happens.
SEACAT: There`s a fire! And my wife is -- she shot herself, but she`s in the fire!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) rise and shine on the boys.
SEACAT: There`s smoke everywhere! (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you pull the trigger?
SEACAT: No!
911 OPERATOR: Is everybody out of the house?
SEACAT: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said that Vashti had died and there was a fire...
SEACAT: Oh, God! (INAUDIBLE) smoke (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... that she had killed herself. She had committed suicide.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you kill her?
SEACAT: No!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was not happy in her relationship.
SEACAT: No, there`s no why, OK? I didn`t do this.
Smoke everywhere!
I love Vashti.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. We are live in Kansas. Husband cop and real-live CSI guy marries his high school sweetheart, has two boys, ages 2 and 4, then it all goes sideways.
Bombshell tonight. Police race to the family`s classic two-story home to find the home burning to a crisp, especially the couple`s bedroom. In the bedroom, Mommy dead. And no, she`s not dead from smoke inhalation, from burning, from some type of arson-related asphyxiation. She is shot dead. A bullet wound to the head and neck area leaves this mother, this beauty, dead in her own bed.
We are live and taking your calls. The courtroom threatening to erupt. Out to Justin Kraemer, KSN-TV, joining me at the courthouse. Justin, I`m just still stunned by the fact that the therapist was allowed to testify.
Now, I know in that jurisdiction, like in a lot of jurisdictions, the marriage counselor or the psychoanalyst doesn`t have to keep confidence. You know, like when you go to your doctor and you tell them things, you don`t expect that they can then testify to that in court. But there is an exception in Kansas and many others where, if it`s abuse, marital abuse, any type of abuse on adults, child abuse, sex abuse, the communications between the victim and the suspect, they don`t have to be secret. That can all come out in court.
JUSTIN KRAEMER, KSN-TV: Well, that`s right, Nancy, as far as the exception out here in Kansas. And she had some very key testimony throughout day eight here of Brett Seacat`s trial in Kingman, Kansas, telling jurors that Vashti Forrest (ph) Seacat had confided in her that she was concerned about threats of violence that Brett had made, regarding the fact that he threatened to kill her if he -- or rather, if she ever tried to leave him, that he threatened to kill her if he ever found out that she was cheating on him, as well as these threats to take their kids to Mexico and that she would never see them again...
GRACE: Never...
KRAEMER: ... if she went through with the divorce.
GRACE: ... see them again. You know, I can`t believe -- I believe it, but the fact that he would tell her he would take her children, her two little boys, to Mexico and she would never see her children again -- I`m surprised she didn`t just go ahead and kill him then and there on the scene.
But what police now think is that this CSI, crime scene investigator -- as a matter of fact, one of the best, the most elite, he actually taught CSI to other people, real-life CSI -- it`s my understanding that he told her that he could set it all up to look like she committed suicide.
Late breaking news as we`re going to air. Matt Zarrell, isn`t it true that just in the last hours, a witness has taken the stand, refused to be on camera, refused to have their name out there, that said she was afraid her husband would make it look like suicide and burn the house down?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, it was very, very eerie, Nancy. The co-worker testified that he would kill her, burn the house down and make it appear as though she did it. And another co-worker who was also there elaborated and said that Seacat said that he could get away with it because he was in law enforcement and he knew about those things and that firemen were -- he forgets the word, but basically idiots, morons is what he was alluding to, that...
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! So Seacat calls fire people idiots and morons? You know, they`re the first ones that break into homes and try to save lives and fight the fires. And he`s calling them idiots? Is that what he said? Did you just say that?
ZARRELL: Correct.
GRACE: Whoa! Take a look at this scene. That is what police and firefighters found when they first get there. And the men and women that Seacat calls idiots are the ones that risk their lives to go into this home.
But I want you to hear -- take a listen to this, everybody on the panel. Listen to what we learn on the 911 call.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Kingman 911. Do you have an emergency? What`s the problem? Calm down.
SEACAT: There`s a fire, and my wife has -- she shot herself but she`s in the fire.
911 OPERATOR: Where at?
SEACAT: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: (INAUDIBLE) Kingman?
SEACAT: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: And you are who?
SEACAT: Oh, my name`s Brett Seacat! My wife is upstairs! (INAUDIBLE) go upstairs and try and (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: What`s your phone number?
SEACAT: (INAUDIBLE) (INAUDIBLE) Oh, there`s smoke everywhere! (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: (INAUDIBLE) possible shooting and a fire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to John Wright, news director KFDI. John, thanks for being with us, also joining us from Kansas. John, in his 911 call, he almost makes it unintelligible. I can hardly make out what he`s saying. But I`ve read it enough to know what he`s saying.
Explain what Seacat is conveying. He`s outside safe and sound. He says he gets his boys out, his little boys, but he leaves the wife behind. What is he saying, John Wright?
JOHN WRIGHT, KFDI FM RADIO (via telephone): He is saying that -- first of all, he`s trying to cover himself by being as irrational and rambling. Law enforcement officers aren`t that way. They`re very meticulous. They get their facts and details and they go over and over. This is not the response of a trained law enforcement officer.
But what we understand happened there -- this was, like, 3:00 o`clock in the morning. He sounds very lucid for 3:00 o`clock in the morning. Nancy, if your house catches fire, you would be that way.
But initially, Vashti, according to Seacat, called for him at that time to come upstairs because something had happened. Now, Seacat said that he did not see the fire start or anything like that -- got upstairs, heard a noise, a bang, and went upstairs and saw his wife already on the bed. He picked her up, then he saw blood, put her down, then went and got the children and got them out of the house.
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Wait! Whoa! Wait!
WRIGHT: ... then indicated...
GRACE: John! Whoa, John! Wait a minute! That doesn`t even make sense. So he goes in there ostensibly to save her. He picks her up and she`s limp. Why would you throw her back down? That makes it all the more urgent that you get her out!
WRIGHT: Now, this is a law enforcement officer. They go through extensive physical and mental training in situations like this. She is considerably smaller than he is. And (INAUDIBLE) for all reasons could bring her out, but instead drops her and goes and gets the boys, brings them out. And apparently, according to him, it`s too hot for him to get back inside to save her. He stays outside.
GRACE: Too hot to get back in. Unleash the lawyers. Kirby Clements joining me out of Atlanta, former prosecutor turned defense attorney. Also with me out of Miami, Eric Schwartzreich, defense attorney.
All right, Eric, so he goes all the way in there. He picks her up, says she`s limp and then goes, Oh, and just throws her back down on the bed and leaves? Help me out, Eric!
ERIC SCHWARTZREICH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, save the living, can`t spare the dead. Sometimes the strangest stories are true. He is a law enforcement officer instructor. If he staged this, Nancy, if this was not a suicide, why would he stage it this way, where the firearm would be found underneath the torso? It just doesn`t make sense. This, remember, is a law enforcement officer. He went, he found she was dead, and he went to save people he could actually save, and that was the children.
GRACE: Oh, I didn`t hear anything about him taking her pulse. What about that, John Wright? Did he say he knew she was dead so he just threw her back in the fire.
WRIGHT: That`s exactly what he said. He said, I know dead is dead, dropped her, went for the kids, got out.
GRACE: All right, Kirby Clements, let`s see if you can do better than Schwartzreich did -- although you gave it a valiant try, Schwartzreich. I got to give you that much.
SCHWARTZREICH: Nancy, you`re the reason...
GRACE: What about it, Kirby?
SCHWARTZREICH: ... why people need to take pills.
GRACE: Thank you. I appreciate that coming from you.
SCHWARTZREICH: You`re welcome.
GRACE: It`s a compliment.
SCHWARTZREICH: Thank you.
GRACE: Now cut his mike.
SCHWARTZREICH: Thank you.
GRACE: Out to you, Kirby. What do you do? Your client picks a woman up, picks his wife up, the mother of his children, and throws her back down, throws her back in the fire, so to speak, and leaves.
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, I have to say that if he knows that she`s dead, what do you want him to do? You want him to drag her out?
GRACE: Take her body out. Yes. Right. That`s what I want him to do.
But you got to go for those people that are alive. But there`s no crime...
GRACE: Why couldn`t he do both?
CLEMENTS: ... in leaving a dead body there. Why couldn`t he do both? You know what?
GRACE: Put him up!
CLEMENTS: If he had done just that...
GRACE: For Pete`s sake!
CLEMENTS: If he had done just that...
GRACE: I want to look at Kirby Clements...
CLEMENTS: ... and the children died...
GRACE: ... say this.
CLEMENTS: Look me right here! If he had done that and those kids had died, you`d be sitting here, screaming bloody murder that this man didn`t care about his children. So he did the right thing, which was to put down that which could not be saved and go after that which could be saved.
GRACE: Kirby?
CLEMENTS: Yes, Nancy?
GRACE: He already had the woman in her arms. It was no more effort to -- he was walking out the door anyway. You know what? It`s like when you`re at the (ph) counter and you pick up gum and pay for it. You`re on your way out anyway. Doesn`t matter. He already had her. All he had to do is walk out the door!
CLEMENTS: But it doesn`t prove murder.
GRACE: It was on his way!
CLEMENTS: It doesn`t prove murder.
GRACE: No, it doesn`t prove murder...
CLEMENTS: It doesn`t prove murder.
GRACE: ... but it completely destroys your comeback! It doesn`t make sense. He was walking out the door. He could have carried her out the door easily.
CLEMENTS: Right, but he went after that which could have been and should have been saved. Let the dead bury the dead.
GRACE: OK, you know what? You`re -- what? Let the -- put him up! Did you just say let the dead bury the dead? What does that mean? That doesn`t even make sense! What are you talking about, man?
CLEMENTS: I`m simply saying...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Let the dead bury the dead?
CLEMENTS: He didn`t rescue a dead body?
GRACE: That`s not even what that means...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Yes, he knew she was dead, all right, and I`ll tell you how he knew. Because he put the bullet in her!
Whoa-whoa! Whoa! Wait! Let`s go to Dr. Michelle Dupre. And I hope Schwartzreich and Clements will listen to this. Doctor, you`re a medical examiner and a forensic pathologist. She`s joining me out of Columbia, South Carolina.
Doctor, did you look at this autopsy report? Did you see the angle of the bullet on this thing? It`s from -- here, come to me, please. It comes -- number one, they`re claiming she committed suicide, which is statistically impossible for a woman in her position and age and with children, blah, blah.
But the suicide is behind the right ear going down. Now, how did she do that, I wonder? And it`s from -- let`s see, it went back -- front to back, I think. It clearly was her lying on the bed, and he stood over her and shot. That`s what that is.
DR. MICHELLE DUPRE, MEDICAL EXAMINER (via telephone): Nancy, I agree that sounds very, very suspicious. How do you get an angle going in that direction? It may be physically possible. You`d really have to work it out and see what the trajectory was, see if it was possible for her to do that.
But I think he did know enough to cover up the stippling or the tattooing so that we couldn`t tell the distance that the gun was away from her.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... as divorce papers were served on Brett. Trotnick (ph) says earlier in the month, Vashti stunned her with a question, a question about Brett killing her and burning down their Kingman home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said, Do you think Brett would burn the house down with me in it? And I was taken aback by that. I said, Not with the kids at home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fire engulfed the Seacats` Kingman home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bed was on fire. The whole room could have been on fire. I`m pretty sure it was. Vashti was laying on her back, right in the spot where she sleeps. Then all of a sudden, it came to me -- dead, fire, kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A beautiful young mother of two dead. Now police are looking at her husband. Yes, there he is, looking pretty cocky. He is a real-life CSI. He`s no idiot. And now today, a witness takes the stand, refusing to be televised, doesn`t want their name out there with their picture, nothing, stating that -- you know what? I`m going to let you tell it. Justin Kraemer, KSN-TV, in the last hours, a friend takes the stand. What did the friend say?
KRAEMER: That last friend of hers to testify from Cox Communications, where Vashti worked, told the jury that Vashti voiced concern to him prior to her death that if she had left Brett Seacat, she was worried that Brett would kill her, light the home on fire and try to make it look like a suicide, easily the most damming testimony giving today.
GRACE: Whoa! Clements and Schwartzreich -- bring them back, back in the ring, gentlemen. So either she is a sidekick -- either she`s clairvoyant, or her husband verbalized to her a plan of murder that he thought he could get away with because do you really think that she could just come up with this scenario all on her own, out of nowhere? That`s like when O.J. Simpson had the dream that he killed Nicole Brown? Because he did it.
He had to have said something to her to make her think he was going to kill her, make it look like suicide and burn down the house. What about it, Schwartzreich?
SCHWARTZREICH: Listen, the operative word here is friend. It is her friend that worked with her over at the Cox Communications. Is it taped? Do we have a tape recording? Did it happen? What is the relationship? You`ve seen cross-examine (ph), Nancy -- cross-examination. What is the cross-examination on this point? Was it actually said? Why did it happen? What`s the relation? And did he really make this statement?
They got to prove this statement was even said. All we know is that this alleged statement came from the friend of the decedent.
GRACE: So are you suggesting that someone would take the stand and lie under oath, facing the penalty of perjury, for what? What would the payoff be to that?
SCHWARTZREICH: Well, I`m not saying she lied. So let`s be clear on that. But you know as well as I know, Nancy, because you`ve tried a lot of cases, you`ve been around the block, and people do take the stand and people do raise their hand, swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and do just the opposite. I see it almost every day.
I`m not saying it happened here, but it`s possible. Two words, reasonable doubt, defense attorney`s best friend. That`s all they need, Nancy.
GRACE: Kirby? Kirby, what are you, second verse same as the first?
CLEMENTS: Well, you know, I say that but I also want to say this. If this woman honestly believed that this man was going to kill her and set the house on fire, make it look like a suicide, what person would stay in a house...
GRACE: Put him up!
CLEMENTS: ... under those circumstances? So I would suggest to you that it tends to cut against...
GRACE: Kirby!
CLEMENTS: ... that statement being made.
GRACE: Kirby...
CLEMENTS: And it`s a friend after the fact adding this little extra spin to the case.
GRACE: Kirby -- Kirby...
CLEMENTS: Talk to me, Nancy. I`m listening.
GRACE: ... I want you to go back into the recesses of that mind. Do you remember way back when I was a felony prosecutor, and right down the hall, you were a felony prosecutor? Do you ever remember having a case ever, a plea deal, a case, whatever, where there was a domestic homicide, the woman stayed in an abusive situation rather than leave? Ever? That is a yes/no.
(CROSSTALK)
CLEMENTS: No, I had plenty of those cases. But I`ll tell you one thing I`ve never had.
GRACE: That`s all I want to know.
CLEMENTS: I never had a case where the man told the woman, I`m going to kill you in this manner, in this way, and the woman then stayed. That`s when they call the police.
GRACE: But you are saying that you`ve had cases where the woman would be beaten to a felony context, and then murdered, and everybody wondered, Why did she stay? So I don`t know what your problem is, Kirby.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s hard to believe that she had something to do with this, OK? You had no blood on you. (INAUDIBLE) picked her up in the bed (INAUDIBLE)
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you walked through fire, you should have injuries besides a small injury on the top of one of your feet, OK? Yes, you guys had just (INAUDIBLE) her filing for divorce, OK? Gun was a gun that you were very well aware of. You say she shot it, but that hasn`t been proven yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You are seeing a police officer, a highly respected CSI, crime scene investigator, instructor on police interrogation. Liz, I want you to cue up some of that interrogation for me.
Joining me right now, special guest Erika Head, a very dear friend of the murdered mom, Vashti Seacat. Erika, thank you for being with us.
ERIKA HEAD, FRIEND OF VASHTI SEACAT (via telephone): You`re welcome.
GRACE: Erika, you saw Vashti in the days before she died, and she was in very good spirits and very upbeat. Did she seem suicidal to you?
HEAD: Never. Never, ever.
GRACE: She did seem emotionally drained, however. What do you think about that?
HEAD: Well, I had talked to her a couple of weeks before her death, and she did seem like, you know, not necessarily like -- like, not enough sleep last night drained. But you know, like, she was emotionally, like, a little weary. But she was still in good spirits. We were at work, you know, and she was doing, you know, what she normally did at work.
GRACE: Was she happy about the prospects of a divorce, Erika?
HEAD: You know, we really didn`t talk about that. But she just -- but the few days before her death, when we were talking again, she was very happy with her life and she knew that things were looking up and she just seemed very confident, a lot more happy, and you know, that Vashti spirit that she had, it just kind of seemed like it had come back, whereas a few weeks before that, it just kind of seemed to not quite be there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jurors also took a look at this cryptic note written by Seacat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You threatened to kill her.
SEACAT: What?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had just served him with divorce papers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You threatened to burn the house down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Calm, died, accident" on the first line.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said, Do you think Brett would burn the house down with me in it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You tried to make it look like she did it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said, Not with the kids at home.
SEACAT: There`s a fire! And my wife is...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was happy.
SEACAT: She shot herself, but she`s in the fire!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With "no suicide" in parentheses.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) gasoline, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s correct.
SEACAT: That is (INAUDIBLE) that is bull(EXPLETIVE DELETED)!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The motive?
SEACAT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Divorce.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live in Kansas and taking your calls. The courtroom set to boil over as a very elite member of the police force on trial for the murder of his wife. He swears that it was a suicide. Yes, they were facing divorce, but he told others that he had bullied his wife into letting him stay there in the home until he found a place to live.
Was that the end of the bullying? Police and fire people raced to the scene to find the home going up in flames and they find her body, mommy`s body, inside in the marital bed. No, she did not die of smoke inhalation. She did not die of asphyxiation. She wasn`t burned to a crisp. She died from a single gunshot wound to the head.
We are live and taking your calls. To Matt Zarrell, what happened in court today? In the last hours.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, another big bombshell development is that the marriage counselor testified that just hours after Vashti Seacat`s death Brett Seacat called the marriage counselor and allegedly said, "I killed her. Vashti is dead and it`s my fault."
The counselor immediately asked what happened and that`s when Seacat gave the same story that you have been hearing, that he was sleeping on the couch and she calls him on the phone, he goes upstairs, the fire started and he finds his wife dead on the bed.
GRACE: So Kirby Clements, Eric Schwartzreich, what is that? That`s not a confession? Was he speaking in a metaphorical sense that it was his fault that he killed her, Eric? That he was the what, doing a comparison?
ERIC SCHWARTZREICH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Getting you to see the wisdom here, I guess, is like going to be like getting Dracula to forsake blood. But here`s the point. That statement, Nancy, that doesn`t mean a single thing. He didn`t say, I killed her. I shot her. I started the fire.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: But he did say, "I killed her."
SCHWARTZREICH: He is a husband. But, Nancy, he`s a husband. I think maybe he felt a sense of guilt that any husband --
GRACE: He did say, "I killed her."
SCHWARTZREICH: Maybe he killed her emotionally. It`s cryptic, as you say. That`s not the smoking gun, no pun intended there, Grace.
GRACE: No. I didn`t say it was cryptic. I never said it was cryptic.
SCHWARTZREICH: But -- well, I think it`s pretty cryptic, Nancy. That is not the smoking gun, no pun intended. It`s not an all-out confession. It`s a statement and it`s an alleged statement to a marital counselor. And I understand the privilege issues and waiver in Kansas so thank God we`re in Kansas anymore.
GRACE: Well, actually, Eric --
SCHWARTZREICH: But the point is it`s not a full confession.
GRACE: If you did a survey in the past I would say 10 years there is a trend and now it is almost a majority of the states in the country, if there is, for instance, child abuse, if there is marital abuse, domestic abuse, the fact that comments were made between husband and wife, those aren`t privileged anymore in many, many jurisdictions.
SCHWARTZREICH: But, Nancy, if I may, sometimes there are bad laws and the problem with that is how many people go to marriage counseling have abuse issues?
GRACE: Don`t start.
SCHWARTZREICH: They don`t go because everything is perfect and sunshine and lollipops. There`s going to be issues. That`s why we have privileges.
GRACE: Are you married?
SCHWARTZREICH: Of course I`m married. My poor wife has to tolerate me. But here`s the point, Nancy. Of course boo-hoo.
GRACE: That`s a toughy. OK.
SCHWARTZREICH: It is a big toughy. But unfortunate it proves --
GRACE: OK. Kirby, I am going to get back to you since Schwartzreich talked for so long. Let me hear the 911 call.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEACAT: There`s a fire and my wife, she shot herself but she`s in the fire. There is smoke everywhere. Just a second. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) wet rug.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Is everybody out of the house?
SEACAT: No. Oh god. The smoke inside -- hurry, hurry. I think she`s dead. I think she shot herself. There is smoke everywhere. She`s -- a wet rag. A wet rag.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: You have a possible shooting and a fire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to you, John Wright, news director, KFDI. John, what about the children? Are they going to be witnesses?
JOHN WRIGHT, NEWS DIRECTOR, KFDI: The children, Nancy, the sun rose and set in Vashti`s eyes on them. That was the only thing she was thinking about other than completing this divorce action and fearing for not only her life but for the safety of her children. That`s all she was concerned about and finalizing this divorce a couple of weeks when she filed until she -- her death. And now the children are left to fend for themselves basically without a mother.
GRACE: Are they going to have to testify, John Wright?
WRIGHT: We know Seacat was going to testify. It`s not known if the children were. That is a very tricky slope to go down to have children testify especially in a case like this when Seacat himself asked the therapist or the daycare provider --
GRACE: Yes.
WRIGHT: -- how he would, in fact, explain where their mother is. And he had to ask that question. So that`s yet to be seen whether those kids are going to take the witness stand. That will be awful harsh --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What do you know, Justin Kraemer, KSN-TV? Are the children going to be called to the stand about what happened that night?
JUSTIN KRAEMER, REPORTER, KSN-TV: Nancy, we have been led to believe that the kids will not be testifying in this trial. Keep in mind that these two young boys were just 4 years old and 2 years old the morning that their mother died. Quite frankly they really wouldn`t have much to add to this case and the -- prosecutors have made the decision to not put them on the stand.
GRACE: Well, that may be right, Justin -- unless they said something like daddy took me out of the house and then the next night it caught on fire or something that would belie that he took them out in the midst of the fire. If I were the prosecutor I would bend over backwards to keep them off the stand. But if you have to use a child you have to. But I pray to god they don`t have to.
Out to Bart Baggett, handwriting expert joining us out of L.A. Now we hear about an alleged suicide note that was found in Vashti`s car seat. We also found out in hours leading up to our show tonight that some co-workers actually observed Seacat, this veteran police officer who claimed he could never be touched, practicing forgery the day before this incident.
Now he says it was all in the line of duty that he was working when he was working on forgeries. But what do you make of that alleged suicide note?
BART BAGGETT, HANDWRITING EXPERT: Well, Nancy, first of all the suicide note is kind of a foolish thing to try and forge. It is very complicated to get six or seven lines of writing. As far as the testimony that someone saw him forge I can`t count on one hand how many times I have actually tried to simulate or forge writing and that`s my full time job. So I have no logical reason why he would be trying to simulate a forgery in his office two days before her death. It`s very, very weird.
GRACE: Well, what do you mean is very, very mean? Do you mean you don`t believe that he was doing that in his office? I don`t know if he was writing his note in his office. I just know that coworkers observed him tracing over other writing in his office.
BAGGETT: Well, I`m just saying, it`s not a common part of our business whatsoever. We don`t commonly trace notes as part of documenting and examining. He wasn`t even a full-time handwriting expert himself. He was -- had all these other roles. So to think that he rolled in a projector and the fact that he had all these notes of her notes is very, very suspicious.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEACAT: I said this is going to be our budget for the next six months so she looked at me and said, are we staying married? And I said, we`re staying married.
There is a fire and my wife just -- she shot herself but she`s in the fire.
Every time I try to talk to people my kids call. I always take their call because my kids are everything.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Is everybody out of the house?
SEACAT: No. Oh god.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s our belief that you had something to do with this. You had no blood. You had no fire on the bottom of your feet and if you walked through fire you should have some injuries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s see, Liz. Do you have those photos of his feet and legs? What does this prove? This could actually go towards his claim. There you see. Singed hair on his legs. This could go toward his claim that he went into the fire to try to save his wife or that he set the fire.
Do you see soot on his feet and blisters on his feet? This taken immediately after the home goes up in flames.
To Robert Rowe, fire expert, Pyrocop Inc. Robert, I really appreciate you being with us tonight. What about the fact that Seacat had gasoline on his pants? What does that say to you?
ROBERT ROWE, FIRE EXPERT, PYROCOP INC.: Well, having any type of an accelerant of any type on your pants is highly suspicious. And you know when both -- most arson cases when we -- when we investigate an arson case the first thing we collect is the pants. And then, of course, we have to interview the suspect and kind of get an idea of what he was doing. Of course not all the time will they tell you the truth. But nonetheless the lab analysis never lies.
So it`s very incriminating to have the situation, the scenario and have gasoline on your pants. It`s basically just very, very -- what would be the word, incriminating, I guess.
GRACE: Damning. Damning, was that the word you are searching for, Robert?
ROWE: Yes.
GRACE: With me Robert Rowe with Pyrocop, Inc.
Well, the defense has a comeback to their being gasoline on Seacat`s pants. They are saying that the pants were carried to the crime lab in an evidence bag, a paper bag. And that they somehow were contaminated by gas fumes.
What about that, Robert?
ROWE: Well, regardless of what type of container you are collecting and putting your evidence in it is subject to contamination. But I do -- I do not believe that the experts in the arson field would make that mistake. You`re told to glove up --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Can you get gas on your pants from being around gas fumes?
ROWE: I`m sorry?
GRACE: Can you get gas, gasoline on your pants from being around gas fumes?
ROWE: I believe it`s not as likely as actually having the actual product itself spilled on to your pants. I believe it`d be very hard to detect.
GRACE: I find it really hard to believe, you know, that you can go to a gas station and you are around gasoline and you don`t touch gasoline in any way nor does it come in contact with you but the active ingredient, gasoline, somehow ends up splattered on your pants. I find that really hard to believe but that`s just me. I`m just a lawyer.
I want you to look at this interrogation tape, Caryn Stark, psychologist, and tell me what you see.
Roll it, Liz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there a motive? Hell yes, there`s motive all around.
(CROSSTALK)
SEACAT: What is it again?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The motive?
SEACAT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Divorce. I mean, divorce, separation, kids. Come on.
SEACAT: If I wanted her out I would have divorced. Just granted her the divorce.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you`d lose contact with the boys and you have them now.
SEACAT: Those boys love their mom. I wouldn`t do that to them. Even when I would tell her I`d take the kids away from her it was a bluff.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do we know that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: There you see him behind bars, and it gets -- it`s not (INAUDIBLE) interrogation and he gets so angry he starts pointing at the police and even cursing. If you can pull that up, too, Liz.
Out to you, psychologist Caryn Stark, weigh in.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: That kind of aggression is so unusual, Nancy. And I think it`s indicative of his personality. What is not suspicious in this case? He is just making no sense. He says about his wife he would -- it was a bluff that he said he would actually take their children and flee to Mexico. That`s some bluff because this woman must have been afraid of that. She confessed to a friend she was afraid of fire. There is too much here that points in his direction. So although I know he is innocent until he`s proven guilty this really stinks.
GRACE: I want you to take a look, everybody, this a CSI veteran, one of the elite on the police force. Take a look at his police interrogation. What do you see?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEACAT: I`m smart enough that if I wanted to kill my wife it would be have been a lot -- I could have come up with something better than that. That is (EXPLETIVE DELETED) insane. This is what a crazy person does.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. Not necessarily. Crazy in love, crazy for his kids.
SEACAT: Don`t try and twist it around.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I`m not. I`m just telling you what our experienced in all the people I have talked to over the years. I`ve seen --
SEACAT: Yes, you have seen more than I have.
(CROSSTALK)
SEACAT: I talk to a lot of people that make emotional mistakes is what it was, emotional.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SEACAT: Hurry. Hurry. I think she`s dead. I think she shot herself.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Prosecutors believe that 911 call was nothing more than the next step in his calculated plan to make his wife`s murder look like a suicide.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you murder her?
SEACAT: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you pull the trigger?
SEACAT: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are aware that the house (INAUDIBLE), correct?
JOY TROTNIC, FRIEND OF VASHTI SEACAT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And that Vashti was in the house, correct?
TROTNIC: Yes. There was blood everywhere, and she was lying on the bed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to you, Justin Kraemer, KSN-TV, the co-worker, was it a male, and did the defense try to insinuate that they had a relationship?
KRAEMER: Yes. Without giving away his name we can tell you that the witness from Vashti`s work, Cox Communication, the one who did say that Vashti had told him that Brett had warned Vashti that if she ever tried to leave him, that he would kill her, burn the house down, make it look like a suicide. That is a guy, but that guy made sure that he told the jurors that they had no relationship outside of work, that they were just friends.
GRACE: Andrew Scott, former police chief, Boca Raton, president of AJS Consulting. That`s the first thing that Schwartzreich, the defense attorney with us tonight, and Kirby Clements, too, said that they would attack the veracity of that witness and paint them out to be what? In a sex relationship, which of course they`re not. But you know, when you undergo a cross examine like that, maybe one juror, even though it`s a lie, might latch onto it.
ANDREW J. SCOTT, FMR. CHIEF OF POLICE, BOCA RATON, FL.; PRESIDENT, AJS CONSULTING: Oh, absolutely. That`s the intent of the defense attorney is just to plant that seed of doubt. Not only amongst all of the jurors but even if you have one juror, that can spread amongst the rest of the jurors and obviously come back for a verdict for the defense. And that`s exactly what they`re paid to do.
GRACE: You know what, that just seems so wrong.
Out to you, John Wright, joining me, KFDI, that they would take a witness to whom she confided that she was afraid he would set it up, her husband would set it up to look like suicide and kill her. And now they`re tearing the witness down, trying to suggest there`s a sex relationship between him and the dead mom when that`s absolutely not true. But they`re doing it any way.
WRIGHT: They have to try all angles as attorneys in this type of particular case, or any kind of murder case. We saw that in the O.J. Simpson trial here in Wichita, saw that in the Carl brother`s trial, and some other high profile cases that attorneys are going to probe, they`re going to, especially, discredit the witness for their client to make sure that their client is shown in the best light. He had a reputation of an instructor, law enforcement instructor, former deputy here in Cedric County. A trainer of law enforcement.
He knows how to get around certain things.
GRACE: Right.
WRIGHT: He knows what these officers go through. And he knows step by step procedures. And this is what he may have relayed to his attorney, not privy to that, but it sounds like the attorney is trying to discredit anyone that takes the witness stand against him.
GRACE: Well, John Wright, I really appreciate you explaining that, and I fully understand the world discredit, but I think smearing the witness with a lie goes further than just discrediting them on cross exam.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We remember American hero, Marine Lance Corporal Ross Carver, 21, Rocky Point, North Carolina. Purple heart, National Defense Service medal, parents, Douglas and Angie, Brothers Dalton and Robert, serving the Marines, widow, brandy, son William.
Ross Carver, American hero.
And now back to a courtroom that is set to boil over. A veteran police officer, one of the elite CSI charged with murdering his wife and setting it up to look like suicide.
Take a look at this beautiful mom. Her name Vashti Seacat. A wife, mother of two boys ages 2 and 4.
Now look at the evidence just brought into trial. This is what she`s reduced to. Nothing more than a skeleton with bullet fragments, an exhibit, so to speak. Tonight, our prayer is with her family and her children. As the trial goes on.
As we say goodnight tonight, congratulations to a graduate, beautiful Lamirah who has graduated high school and is heading to South Carolina`s (INAUDIBLE) University this fall majoring in biology.
And happy 2nd birthday to crime fighter Miley. Loves swimming, parents, Destiny and Justin.
Happy birthday.
Everybody, the courtroom is done for the day. But Dr. Drew`s up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, goodnight, friend.
(END)
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