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Nancy Grace
Nancy Grace Behind Bars, Inside Estrella Part 2
Aired June 06, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on, ladies. Come on. Let`s go.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: I`ve already had to go through several layers of steel doors that close and open behind you.
SGT. LISA PIKE, MARICOPA COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Correct.
GRACE: I mean, frankly, I don`t even know if I`m going to get out.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: Now where are we? What are we approaching right now? This looks like some kind of guard?
PIKE: Right. This is what we call a housing unit. This is a tower set up for us. So we have a tower in the middle that is in this housing unit. Since there`s closed custodies, this is manned by three officers. We do security walks every 25 minutes. And when they`re in the housing units, they have to have two officers when they`re with that custody level of an inmate.
GRACE: Are all the corrections officers here female that deal with the females?
PIKE: No, not necessarily. We do have male officers that work here. They are pretty much limited to towers. They can walk in the housing units. They`re just not assigned to dormitories.
GRACE: Now, let me digest that a moment. They`re mostly limited to the towers?
PIKE: There are mostly female staffs here. However, we do have a small section of males that work here. There are some places that they can work. They can work in a tower because they`re not in their dormitory, which would be them disrobed at any one time. They might be disrobed in their cells. However, there`s usually a door, and the officers are trained to just do the security walk.
ROSA LEON, 31: Try to stay clean, try to not to run back to the -- as soon as I`m -- like I was saying on the camera earlier, as soon as I leave here, it`s just a bus ride away until I hit the pipe again. Crystal meth is my drug of choice. Just try to stay clean, call someone, get someone to stand by me and keep me locked up out there, you know, on a chain or something where it`s harder to -- slower to get there by the time I get to the drugs or...
GRACE: See, to me, you sound like you`re still addicted.
LEON: I know I`m addicted.
GRACE: OK.
LEON: I know I`m addicted.
GRACE: Is anybody else still addicted to something?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very much.
GRACE: What?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Crystal meth.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK, I`ve never done any drug at all, not even weed. So what does meth do to you? Because I`m sure you`ve seen the before and after pictures.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
GRACE: Have you seen that? They look like a living skeleton, with, like, scabs all over their face, and their teeth are falling out, all that. You`ve seen it, right?
ANGELINA KEY, 32: It was a sexual thing for me when I did it.
GRACE: What, now?
KEY: It was a sexual thing for me when I did it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s why (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: What?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Meth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Meth.
GRACE: I know, but what?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sexual...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What do you mean, sexual? What?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I started doing...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just to have sex. That`s what it was about.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I started doing meth...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: It makes you want to have sex or it makes the sex better?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct. All of it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everything.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: How does it make the sex better?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like, one touch, you`re...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your body`s, like...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... experiment more. You`re more sensual. Your touch is a lot more sensitive than it normally is and...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sometimes, I don`t get like that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do. I do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sometimes I`m real evil.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I`m sensing that. I`m getting that whole evil vibe thing.
(CROSSTALK)
FINA DEAN, 26: (INAUDIBLE) person! I`m really funny, too! I`m really funny.
GRACE: I`m feeling the evil.
DEAN: Really?
GRACE: I do not want to see you on meth!
DEAN: (INAUDIBLE) my police report, which I`m pretty sure you read.
GRACE: Yes. But right now, you just seem so...
DEAN: I`m so cool, yes.
GRACE: ... sweet.
DEAN: I`m, like, the coolest person ever. I will, like, have you...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: But I got a feeling you on meth, that`s a whole `nother thing.
DEAN: No. No. I`m just incredibly, like, frigging -- what`s his name, Heil Hitler? Yes, that kind of way. (INAUDIBLE) it`s ridiculous. I`m not good on it. My family hates it.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Is it that you think about it when you`re behind bars and you want it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, you don`t think about it. I don`t start thinking about it until I -- you -- it`s like a feeling you crave when you -- as soon as you hit outside. As soon as I hit outside, like, what do you do now? Instead of, like, going to your mom`s, or like, going, you know, to run to the clinic or something, the first thing I do -- it`s like returning back the party. You want to go back to that night that you were arrested. It`s always -- that`s how it feels for me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I don`t want to go back to that...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... it always feels for me, like...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Do not go back to the party.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... and nobody`s around no more, you know?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wish I had, like...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I first started doing meth, it was...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... in here for some of these women, you know?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think, you know, their mind`s there, you know?
GRACE: Did you say they need it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know I need counseling.
GRACE: You need it!
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To me this is...
STEPHANIE RENEE CONLEY, 30: I know when I walk out, I`m not doing nothing. I`m good. I`m good. I won`t even drink.
GRACE: This place is as neat as a pin!
PIKE: That`s a female housing unit, so we actually get lucky because the females usually keep it pretty clean.
GRACE: Do they have to keep it clean themselves?
PIKE: Yes. We have trustees that work in the kitchen, work in the hallways. The inmates, of course, that are unsentenced are not authorized out here. But we have -- out at tents (ph), where you`re going to be later, all the trustees live out there and they have their jobs inside here, so -- of course, we have male trustees, females, but females come in here and serve food, clean up the housing units, mop the floors, stuff like that.
GRACE: Male trustees come in here?
PIKE: No. Males are at the male (INAUDIBLE) Back when I first started, this didn`t have...
GRACE: Recipe for trouble!
PIKE: We had a hallway of males and a hallway of females, and we were kind of like traffic police. We had to stop the boys, get the girls to go (INAUDIBLE)
MARISSA LEVEL, 27: A lot of time that I`m missing with my children, although they know that I love them. I`m not your average drug addict. I`m intelligent and articulate, and I have all the tools that I need in order to succeed. I just never bothered to do so. I`ve tried but I`ve failed repeatedly.
So I think it`s really important to me to show my children that I can succeed, that I`m not a failure, that I do love them, that even though Mommy was there all the time, she wasn`t the best Mommy that she could have been.
And their dad is in prison. He`s doing 10 years. So you know, they don`t even know what it`s like to have a stable household, except for through foster care. And I`m thankful for that, but I`d like to be able to provide them the stability of a mother, that a mother is supposed to. And so those are my two biggest things. My kids and sign language are probably the two biggest things that are the most important to me.
GRACE: Why did you plead instead of going to trial?
LEVEL: At the end of the day, if you lose that trial, sometimes you`re looking at more time than you would.
GRACE: You are looking at more time.
LEVEL: You know what I`m saying? So I just thought it was in my best interests to take the first plea. Some people don`t take the first plea. They wait for the second, and the second one`s worse than the first one. And I didn`t want to take that risk.
GRACE: Well, I remember when I was prosecuting, I would give the first plea offer, and I would give them another plea calendar, like two weeks, to decide if they wanted it or not.
But then, when I would have to start working the case up -- like, going out on the street, finding witnesses, sending out subpoenas, going to the crime lab, going -- me going out and taking pictures -- the more I worked the case, the higher the deal would be because that`s taking me off cases, like rape cases and murder cases, child molestation cases that I really needed to work on. So they more they took me off those, the higher that plea would -- I`d start off fairly, you know, in the ballpark.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At least you think about child molestation.
GRACE: Say what?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Man, they don`t think about that in this -- in this state. First time you get caught for child molestation, you get off on probation.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Not in my courtroom, I`m proud to say.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In California, they`re not allowed to walk the yard with regular people. In prison out there in Arizona, when everyone`s out, you don`t -- you know, they could be walking right among you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`ll see, like, so many men. They call them - - I forgot what they call them, NOCs (ph) here. In court, you`ll see NOCs just full and full of nothing but child crimes. And they`re laughing. They`re all going on probation. And then you see somebody over here with a meth addiction, and they`re getting sent five years in prison!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK, Let me ask you a question. And I`m not asking about you in particular, but have you ever seen a case where somebody got, quote, "jailhouse justice," like a child molester got an ass-whipping behind bars for being a child molester?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, yes. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I haven`t seen that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve seen it -- I don`t know, I`ve seen it a lot...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the female...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In jail or prison?
GRACE: Either one.
DEAN: Oh, in prison, yes. Very much. Oh, here`s a joke. These girls are scared to lose their canteen. They`re finding -- oh, never mind. You know, they`re finding other -- (INAUDIBLE) other things. They come -- people come to jail and get scared. They do. But they talk a lot. You see all in the day room, they`re talking big crap. But when it comes down to it, they have no unity, and when somebody comes in that has a horrible crime and the cops raise their voice just another level, they all get scared.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is like a day-and-a-half, they`re like buddy- buddy again, it is like we just got on restriction because you were have no unity, and when somebody comes in with a horrible crime and the cops raise their voice just another level, they are all scared.
CONLEY: They`ll be fighting one day. They`ll be fighting at each other`s face one day, and the next -- like, give it, like, a day-and-a- half, and they`re buddy-buddy again. It`s just like -- you know, we just got on restriction because you all were fighting, and now you want to be buddy-buddy?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All the cops do is (INAUDIBLE) like, mention restriction, and these girls...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, just be quiet.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because everyone wants their food.
DEAN: They`ll (INAUDIBLE) with somebody that -- they`ll hang out with somebody that molests kids or killed a baby, but they want to say, Oh, that`s wrong. But you`re sitting here, hanging out with somebody that seriously, like, did something disgusting to their child?
(INAUDIBLE) violent crimes, and we got prostitutes coming in and people for sales, and then we got the people that are facing really high- profile crimes, and us that are going out for a lot of time, and our mentality is totally different from somebody that`s facing, like, one year in prison for 20 years in prison.
So that`s where a lot of animosity happens because you got this girl complaining all day long about something you`re going home to. And you`re going to come back anyway because we`re going to see you in six months because you go out there and do the same thing. And you got people that are facing a lot of amount of time, and that`s where most of the fights break out in here, is the different mindsets.
I mean, it`s supposed to be -- classification is supposed to be completely different here, but it`s not because you throw everybody together. And it`s different. I mean, you can`t have -- simply (ph) have a conversation when they`re facing this (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, it`s hard.
DEAN: And they`re a person constantly on it, nagging you, like, you keep telling them over and over (INAUDIBLE) We really don`t want to hear about this. We don`t want to hear about this. Or we don`t know. We don`t know. We`re trying to say it the nicest way, and then finally, somebody just flips out because they got so much frustration, like (INAUDIBLE) Like, really? Why is she in this pod with us? Like, it`s ridiculous, on girls` row.
It`s a constant battle with the cops, too, because they keep getting girls that want to roll out of the pod, and cops just can`t move a person just because they want to. There has to be a significant amount reason. But how can a girl go up to the cops and be, like -- I just don`t get it in here.
They give me attitude all the time. They feel like -- I feel like I`m getting picked on. It`s not that you`re getting picked on. It`s you won`t shut the hell up about something petty and you`re going to be back in six months.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love you kids! Bye.
GRACE: What`s the thing that you miss the very most when you`re here? And don`t say children because I already know that. What`s the thing on the outside that you miss the most?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shoes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jordans.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Freedom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love Jordans.
GRACE: See, I -- I do not care about shoes, clothes, jewelry, cars, nothing. Don`t care.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I miss cooking. I miss getting up and cooking...
GRACE: I wouldn`t miss cooking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... and getting whatever I wanted to get in the refrigerator.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... being able to walk around...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: When you say, I miss my freedom, I know that. But what -- what about it exactly?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I miss working.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not worrying about...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Turning on the TV...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Being able to go to the bathroom in peace, you know?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because if it`s not my bunky, then it`s a guard that`s walking around, you know?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know what? Music. Music.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would say working...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We used to have radios here, but we don`t have them no more. They took them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Music, my dogs and my family and my husband. Those are the only things that matter to me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For me personally, I think the one thing I miss the most that I haven`t done in a really long time is spinning (ph) fire. Like, that for me is the coolest thing ever. Like, Hawaiian style, luau style, just spinning some fire. And the noise...
GRACE: I don`t even know what spinning fire is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s like you go to a luau and you see the guys spinning the fire around, and the noise that it makes as it whizzes past your head. It`s got this whoo, whoo, whoo!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s cool.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s amazing. And that for me is, like, the closest I get to heaven on earth. That`s the most peaceful I am, aside from family and stuff like that. That`s, like, my thing that I do when I`m out there. If I can find something to light on fire and spin around my head, guaranteed I`m doing it.
GRACE: Now, see, that -- I would never have guessed that one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
GRACE: OK, what`s the very -- the minute you get out, if you had your wish, what would be the first thing that you do when you get out?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Besides children?
GRACE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Going to Cracker Barrel.
GRACE: Eat what at Cracker Barrel?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A chicken fried steak, green beans and potatoes, and macaroni and cheese.
GRACE: That`s what my brother`d get, chicken fried steak.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`d go to Joe`s Crab Shack. I miss seafood. Honestly, when I get out, I`m actually debating on whether or not to go back east with the family, Tennessee or Kentucky. I haven`t decided yet. But I`m out of here. There`s -- Arizona`s not for me anymore. I`m born and raised here. I`ve been here all my life. I`m 32 years old, and I seem to just keep continuously getting myself into something, you know, whether it`s intentional or not intentional, you know, or by accident.
GRACE: And start over somewhere else.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, just start new somewhere. It`ll be good.
GRACE: You`re not tied down with children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s right.
GRACE: You don`t have anything you have to do here, leave.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s right.
GRACE: If you had children, a whole `nother ball game.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s right.
GRACE: What`s the first thing?
CONLEY: Me?
GRACE: I know your (ph) feeling (ph) about your case.
CONLEY: I want to go home and just kick back with my family and barbecue some hot dogs, some steaks, play with my dogs in the back yard, go swimming, just fresh air, just give hugs and kisses. And hopefully, my husband will be with me. I really miss him. It`s been hard this last seven months without him. I`m not allowed to talk to him, so...
GRACE: Can you even write letters?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. We`re co-defendants, so we...
GRACE: What?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Co-defendants. So we can`t write. But he`s got my back. We know what happened.
GRACE: You can`t write each other at all?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
GRACE: I didn`t know that. I thought that authorities would want them to write each other in case they said something in the letter that they could use against them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her husband did petition -- we submitted a copy of the marriage license from jail and...
GRACE: I get it. I understand that. But I mean, as a prosecutor, I loved it when people wrote letters to each -- or letters to anybody.
Where do they meet with their lawyers?
PIKE: We have a legal visitation area. There are four legal cells back there. It`s divided somewhat with, like, a mesh screen, but there`s a document pass-through so they can have contact with their attorney for paperwork to sign or things to look at, what have you. Or if their custody level is lowered, they can have face-to-face visitation.
GRACE: That mesh push-through, how thick...
PIKE: It`s probably about an inch-and-a-half, maybe an inch, inch- and-a-half, just enough to get some -- a lot of times, if it`s a -- the discovery is very thick, very big, they`ll have to piece it through there a little bit at a time.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Now, let`s talk about tats (ph). Let`s talk about your tats, OK? Because I can`t help -- now, did you ever think that if you did -- and I`m not saying you did, but if you did commit a crime, you would be easily identifiable?
DEAN: No, because I always cover up.
GRACE: Smart. OK, let`s see what you got.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This one`s not finished because I had to have surgery on my neck, so it was GS (ph). It was my neighborhood at the time, when I was into gangs.
GRACE: Which was...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: East Side Garfield (ph).
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can`t (ph) stop, won`t stop.
GRACE: Stop what?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can`t stop, won`t stop none of my vices.
GRACE: OK, and the tear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The tear drop? No comment.
GRACE: What`s the tear drop for?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, there`s other -- there`s a lot of different meanings.
GRACE: I know. I know. I was a prosecutor for 10 years, inner city Atlanta, I get it, OK? OK, so what`s right there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pain before pleasure.
GRACE: Why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My life.
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got loyalty, my daughter, my mom...
GRACE: I want to see the daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s kind of...
GRACE: A smile and a...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m a rose, because my nickname`s blossom, so -- green eyes, my mother...
GRACE: Wait. This one`s is going away.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I kind of carved it out.
GRACE: Oh, gosh! OK, I assume that means you dug it out of your skin? "Married to the game."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
GRACE: And the game is?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The streets.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The lifestyle.
GRACE: OK. Word (ph). I`m out (ph). Let`s see yours. "Denied"?
KEY: Yes, I was going to get -- I was going to go along -- a couple of years ago when I was in here, I got denied. I was going to get (INAUDIBLE) denied my freedom with handcuffs here, and I did it. And then...
GRACE: OK, I`m glad you didn`t. What is that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This used to be somebody`s name, and I actually covered it up to resemble...
GRACE: Whose name was it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A woman.
GRACE: I know, but -- you broke up?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tina.
GRACE: You broke up?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And this actually resembles -- she`s one, I`m one, and then another (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: OK, anything else for me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I got this.
GRACE: And that means?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s not finished. I`m on the cusp of Capricorn and Aquarius, so I did a water pouring into...
GRACE: Now, what are you -- like, you`re a Capricorn and Aquarius. That makes you what kind of person?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m on the cusp, so I`m an amazing person.
GRACE: I`m on the cusp of Scorpio.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: And I don`t know what that means.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That means you`re an amazing person.
GRACE: Yes. OK.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: How often do they get to use the phones?
PIKE: For these guys, they`re out 16 hours a day.
GRACE: Oh, OK.
PIKE: So minus head counts or any emergencies, they have access to it about 16 hours a day.
GRACE: Who changes the channel?
PIKE: We do.
GRACE: Should not that be on HLN?
(LAUGHTER)
PIKE: They don`t -- unfortunately --
GRACE: What do they get?
PIKE: They get very limited channels, nothing local. It`s mostly weather channel, food channel, Sheriff Joe Channel. Food Network, yes.
GRACE: What`s the Sheriff Joe Channel?
PIKE: We have a Sheriff Joe Channel that kind of -- we can access and put tapes on. We can run a tape like for Christmas. For a while, he was reading to the inmates at night. We put on the tape and he`d read us stories --
GRACE: Such as --
PIKE: I don`t know the books, but he would read and it would be over the TV. He`d be sitting in front of a fireplace.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What`s a hole?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s lockdown, where you`re 23 hours a day in a cell by yourself.
GRACE: Yes. OK, forget the hootch. Don`t want to go that hole. Whatever that is.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Who has been in the hole?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have been in closed custody, that`s like the hole.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I spent 30 days in the hole.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I knew. If you would kick a door in, you would totally be in the hole.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I did six months close custody.
GRACE: Because? You`re just going to -- no. You are. OK, why did you go in the hole?
ANGELINA KEY, INMATE: I actually went because it was so petty, actually, to be honest with you.
GRACE: OK.
KEY: I was out at rec and I found a couple of pieces on the ground that were metal pieces, and instead of giving them to my favorite officer right away, I -- she found it on me and sent me to the hole for 30 days.
GRACE: What would you do with the -- what`s a metal piece?
KEY: There were -- it was an l-bracket and three small rings. That is what I said, what am I going to do with these?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What were you going to do with them?
KEY: I wasn`t going to do anything with them, give them to her, is what I was going to do but she beat me to it. She -- she came, like, I don`t know, we were at rec for like 30 minutes, when we had an hour, and then she was like everybody, put your hands on the wall, and I was like oh, shoot, I have these, and I gave them to her, and then she was like -- she took me to my cell, stripped me out. Took me to lockdown, so I was fighting it back there but I lost of course but --
FINA DEAN, INMATE: Prison, yes. What you probably think of what jail is what prison is, you know, but jail no.
KEY: Yes, prison is a lot more like that rather than county jail, you know?
(CROSSTALK)
DEAN: There`s rules you go by.
KEY: People just numb their body with a drug or alcohol or whatever it is that they`re addicted to. You know, and everybody knows that when you -- you know, when you put those -- when you numb your body like that, you don`t normally feel, you know, the pain that you --
DEAN: So you don`t care.
KEY: That you would when you`re sober, you know. And you`re not thinking, you`re not, you know, you`re not thinking clearly so you go out and do things that you wouldn`t normally do. You know, some people just come in here and brag about it, and they think they`re something and really they`re not.
DEAN: And then they`re crying about --
MARISSA LEVEL, INMATE: And then they come in here and they`re falling apart.
KEY: And it`s usually the ones that brag about it, to be honest with you, you know, usually the ones that brag about it are usually the ones that are nothing. There really -- you know what I mean? It was all just because they were numbing their body or they had that gun behind them or that knife or -- you know.
ARMITHEA BURKS, INMATE: I want to say something, I wasn`t on drugs or alcohol when I had my situation. And I really think that it is a battle within my mind and my upbringing. So I`m going to get some deep counseling to kind of help me cope with what is up under --
GRACE: What do you think it is? You mentioned something about how you were raised?
BURKS: Yes, just abandonment. Just not being loved. Just always being abandoned. And I don`t know. I just --
GRACE: The one left?
BURKS: Yes, well, I never was with my mom. She`s like with motorcycle gangs, she moved to Arizona, like, when I was 9, 10 years old, so I came here for, like, five years, and I don`t remember anything. We lived in Phoenix back in the `80s, in West (INAUDIBLE), somewhere, wherever that is. And, you know, so just being abandoned a lot. I was abandoned a lot. And I had to work a lot of times to take care of myself.
She never was -- really could be there to, like, love us or say I love you and spend time. Like, you know, so -- and I did that with my children. But then I got to the point of -- point in time where they got older and I just threw my hands up. Starting rising and my kids were old enough, you know, that I thought they were that I had raised them where they can, you know, fend for themselves, and that was the biggest mistake that I chose drugs.
And I think that`s where my daughter has the worst -- hardest time forgiving me is that she`s my only girl and I wasn`t there, I wasn`t there for them and so part of her life, I wasn`t there for a lot of things, and there was always another woman with her dad that caused problems.
GRACE: OK, help me -- OK. If you could give me one piece of advice as a - - to be a good mother. What would it be? I already don`t do drugs, I already don`t drink. So forget about that.
BURKS: I would say, spend as much time with your kids as you possibly can. Not to watch them about drinking and drugging, but just to say I love you - -
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Hey, my boss is sitting right behind me, so you can tell him I need more time off with my children.
BURKS: Say I love you as much as possible, and hold and hug and just let that child feel love.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BURKS: Always.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hold him. Squeeze them, kiss them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You were just saying, my mom worked a lot when I grew up. And I hate the fact that she probably thinks it`s our -- it`s her fault that, you know, that I became a drug addict and a bad mother. But thanks, mom, you know, I don`t think -- I don`t remember you getting up at 11:00 in the morning to be a nurse, or making sure in Thanksgiving that we didn`t have a turkey on the table. You know. That we did. And no matter what, even if it wasn`t a paid week, every 15 days, you know, just thanks, mom. And you are appreciated.
PIKE: Some of these cablings are for new camera systems, some of the cabling is for -- we have a video visitation system in the back for public defenders and stuff, so they don`t have to come down here and see their clients as much.
GRACE: Now all of their visitations and phone calls are recorded, correct?
PIKE: Visitation, not so much. Because there is legal visitation that was on there.
GRACE: Right.
PIKE: There are phone calls.
GRACE: Not the lawyer visitation.
PIKE: Right. In the main room, it`s video recording, correct.
GRACE: Good.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: When you are sitting here, you`re thinking, how am I going to stay sane for the next nine years? You`re thinking about what you`re going to do with this child different than what happened with the last one, and they did not go to foster care because your mom did not pick up the phone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
GRACE: They went to foster care because you are in jail.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
GRACE: OK. So maybe if she`d have picked up the phone she could have put it off. But you`ve got a chance now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
GRACE: With this one. I mean, what do you think about to keep your head straight in here? I mean, I`m not saying -- everybody has screwed up, not just you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Different society --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Everybody has.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I could live in Phoenix all the time.
GRACE: Why --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because it is a lot like -- I just see -- I hear the stories and then people ask me that all the time. It`s like, you know what, maybe if I was in a different area, maybe, you know, a different group of friends.
GRACE: That is not crazy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And maybe I could have joined a parenting group or --
GRACE: Hey, ever heard that saying, birds of a feather, if you could get away from that influence and start somewhere else?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
GRACE: You know, people change their scenery all the time to try to start over.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But you can`t run from your bodies.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is self-control.
GRACE: I`m not saying you run. I`m saying, start over.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I mean, because you can`t -- because I have been changed around, too, but if your vice is there and you haven`t had anything or any kind of help or any kind of tools to change that, you`re going to go back to what you know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is all about self-control.
GRACE: Well, see, here`s the thing. Who has ever been hung up on dope? I don`t care what it is. Weed, crap, cocaine, heroin, meth, it doesn`t matter. That -- or booze, alcohol. It gets any -- you cannot shake it.
(CROSSTALK)
KEY: If somebody is there for 10 years and they get out and they go back to that same old behavior, they`re just -- plain and simple addicts, that`s all it -- that`s all it is to it, you know.
DEAN: And they don`t want to change.
KEY: Yes. And they don`t want to change. They`re not going to after 10 years, really, you`re going to get out and go right back to that same lifestyle? Something is wrong.
DEAN: If you still get high in prison, you`re going to get high on the streets. I don`t care -- like if it`s a pill, I don`t care what it is.
KEY: Yes.
DEAN: Like in here, a lot of girls, (INAUDIBLE), they go to psych and get on all these pills so they can stay high. And they don`t need those pills. They think like in -- like when, you know, when you guys do your ranges of how many people in the prison system is crazy, that is so wrong. Because probably zero percent of them are crazy, there`s probably -- there are some that crazy.
KEY: Right.
DEAN: And officers know about them because after awhile they see that, they`re kind of cuckoo and they send them out to the psych hospital, everybody else that in the -- like the (INAUDIBLE) is --
KEY: You get high or doing it to go to sleep, so they can, you know, surpass their time so.
DEAN: So all those ratings that they do nationally wide about how many people are crazy, it`s so full of it.
LEVEL: Yes. Because a large percentage of the people that are getting medication, getting medicated while they`re in jail or in prison, more so in jail, I would say.
DEAN: I would say more so in jail because prison, you kind of -- it`s different over there.
LEVEL: It`s different, but more so in jail, you know, a large percentage of the people that are getting medicated are using them to get high, to get away, to escape like they would on the streets, which really doesn`t make a lot of sense, because if you`re here for drugs why wouldn`t you try to change those habits instead of continuing on with the same vicious cycle that you`ve been repeating your entire life? Doesn`t really make a lot of sense, but you know people choose to do what they choose to do.
GRACE: Has anybody escaped -- ever escaped from this jail?
PIKE: Yes, yes, we`ve had escapes, we have had attempted escapes, we`ve gotten them back, but yes, we`ve had escape attempts. We would say attempts because we always get them back.
GRACE: Do you? I mean, do they actually leave the grounds?
PIKE: The last one jumped off the roof and broke both ankles, feet, and back, so she didn`t get very far.
GRACE: How did she get up on the roof?
PIKE: She -- I`m not -- she climbed the rec yard fence, that`s what it was. Find the rec yard fence and went through a bunch of other fencing, got up on the roof and then went to the corner of the building and jumped off.
GRACE: OK. Do you know about the woman that tried to escape from here and broke her legs and her back?
DEAN: She was in close custody with me for a little bit. Because I was in close custody for six months and then I got -- I remember I weight down --
GRACE: She wanted to get out so bad she broke her back?
DEAN: I don`t know, I don`t know, but there were actually two that tried to escape. And they were both like really young girls that were doing like six months and -- like under?
GRACE: They couldn`t make it for six months?
DEAN: And went to the fence. Yes. And jumped over. One jumped over the fence and sat there because she was too high on drugs, and then the other one fell off the roof.
GRACE: That`s the one --
(CROSSTALK)
DEAN: The fence -- the fence or something like that, broke her back, I seen her with a back brace, because I was asking the cops.
(CROSSTALK)
I`m like who is that over there? They`re like some dumb -- never mind.
GRACE: She only had six months, she couldn`t do -- she broke her back?
DEAN: I guess she broke -- maybe --
BURKS: I`m like, that she was just really trying to see if she can do it. If it could really happen. That`s what I know.
DEAN: Yes, I haven`t talked to her myself. Yes.
KEY: That is an idiot, as far as I`m concerned.
GRACE: The -- the walls of this structure.
PIKE: OK.
GRACE: What do you have to keep people from escaping? Are there fences, barbed wire? What?
PIKE: Yes. All of the above. We have fencing system. As you notice, there was nothing really outside, there`s no trees.
GRACE: Yes.
PIKE: There were shrubs to hide behind, there`s a blank area, there`s a bright light if you come here at 10:00 at night. It will be like you`re at a movie theater, it`s so bright. I mean, more from the movie theater, it`s kind of dark.
GRACE: OK.
PIKE: It`s real bright spotlights. And our officers. I mean, our officers walk every 25 minutes in a circle and check everybody there. So that`s the first line of our defenses, the officer making sure that everybody who`s supposed to be there is there. You`ve got get down this long air hallway. You`ve got to get through those big steel doors that you got through, and there is another door behind that one. You`ve got to wait for that one to close. So there`s a lot of different safety levels that you have to go through.
SGT. MICHELLE METZLER, ESTRELLA JAIL, MARICOPA COUNTY: The biggest clue, the biggest giveaway that something is going to happen is when you have a lot of eyes on you, so you`ll be sitting there watching your housing unit and you`ll notice that every inmate is watching you, that`s usually because they`re looking out. They`re trying to see what you`re going to do and where you`re going to be.
And they try to go in an area that might not be in direct view of your eyes, and when they do that they usually will put pointers out. They`ll put inmates in certain sections to stand and watch and let them know hey, an officer is coming. And so the officers are trained to pay attention that if an inmate has been standing there for a while, watching them, and half the room has moved this way, obviously there is something going on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve been to different counties and some counties are not like this. Like, this is the only county that serious -- like we only get fed twice. You know, like, twice a day, like the intake process before that is just so ridiculous. Like other counties, they`re not that -- it`s not that harsh. Like Maricopa County is probably the harshest county that I`ve ever been to. And so I don`t know if it`s by design, but I know that maybe it`s just like this and have enough money to house all the inmates or feed all the inmates.
GRACE: I see the pink socks is for real, everything is pink. OK. You don`t have to show me -- does that include underwear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sometimes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re so brand new then you get white.
GRACE: Does anybody care?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
GRACE: I do not care. Huh?
DEAN: I won`t wear pink underwear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I don`t like --
DEAN: I only wear the white ones because nobody else has worn them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
DEAN: They`re out of the packet.
GRACE: How do you then -- what do you just go commando? Because how can you get --
(CROSSTALK)
Out of a packet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s no packet, I don`t think --
(CROSSTALK)
KEY: You do laundry and there`s --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You see them come up to you --
DEAN: You see them come up laundry that comes --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Through the window.
GRACE: You couldn`t get black underwear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You only wear black underwear and they only have white or pink, then I assume you do not wear underwear.
DEAN: Well, we get two pairs of underwear. So we can wash them out and trade them and they come three times a week for underwear. So we can trade them out when laundry comes and get two more pairs.
LEVEL: She only wears white, not black.
DEAN: Only white.
GRACE: OK. Why not pink?
DEAN: Because somebody else wears them. Someone has worn them.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK. I would totally agree with that. So nobody else wears white but you?
DEAN: No. Most inmates are like --
(CROSSTALK)
KEY: Not -- no, not all. Not all.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The one that use their brains.
GRACE: OK.
KIM JONES, SHOPLIFTING: I never seen nothing like this. Ever. Like when I talk to the girls who are here, and I tell them some of the things that we have -- we had in California or they`re like really or whatever. Like we have vending machines in our county jail. We have two TVs, we have opportunity to be out amongst each other all day, no problems. You know, if one person messes up, it`s just that one person`s fault. Here, one falls for all. You know?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DEAN: I`ve been locked up in California, I`ve been locked up in Oklahoma. I`ve been locked up in different counties here, and it`s so much better. And I know we put ourselves here, that`s understandable. We broke the law, then we`ve got to deal with the consequences. But that doesn`t mean to the extent where you try to break us and tear us down because we`re already torn down.
I mean, I think it`d be better if they give us more programs but at the same time, a really -- you know, like -- yes, are we? I mean, we`re already in the state of mind where we`re already institutionalized and we know we were going to come face, we need to accept what they`re going to give us, we stop complaining because we know grieving really don`t do nothing. They tell you (INAUDIBLE). I mean the systems that you`ve got to try to better yourself, it doesn`t matter, if I finally get to the top, it doesn`t matter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They don`t care what (INAUDIBLE).
DEAN: I mean, you`re complaining about little stuff to them. You`re complaining about food, medical, clothing, and the way they also treat you. That an everyday thing.
GRACE: I know you have children, but I know you had a mother. So give me your advice to be a good mom.
KEY: I would say, I had lost my mother when I was 11. So I`ve been on my own --
GRACE: Man.
KEY: Yes. So I really haven`t experienced that.
GRACE: What happened to her?
KEY: She was a victim of malpractice. Yes.
GRACE: OK. Give me advice.
DEAN: Be honest. Don`t hide anything. Because they`re going to find out anyway.
GRACE: Wish you hadn`t said that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your kids already know.
DEAN: Your kids already know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
DEAN: And I think be honest and just let them know everything, with everything, what`s going on in this world because if you keep hiding it and don`t tell them, they`re going to want to go do it.
GRACE: Guys, you`re so great. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re welcome.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
LEVEL: I have a snippet to add to you.
GRACE: OK.
LEVEL: You should totally tell them to give us extra snacks for this.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: Do you have children? A husband on the outside?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes.
GRACE: When do you get out?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Could you take me to the Grand Canyon?
GRACE: Well, today we went riding go-carts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How old are them? They`re still 5?
GRACE: Five.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, they`re still little.
GRACE: Right. Thank you.
END
