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Nancy Grace
Trayvon`s Girl on the Phone Testifies
Aired June 26, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RACHEL JEANTEL, FRIEND OF TRAYVON MARTIN: I felt guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Felt guilty about what?
JEANTEL: That I was the last person that talked to him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell us, if you can, what he described happening.
JEANTEL: A man was watching him. He looked like a creepy-ass cracker (INAUDIBLE) Trayvon (INAUDIBLE) (EXPLETIVE DELETED). (INAUDIBLE) saying, Get off, get off.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was looking out my window (INAUDIBLE) my back yard, and someone was yelling and screaming help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like, a -- you know, a yelp. It was excruciating. I really felt that it was the boy`s voice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) arrested (INAUDIBLE) then I heard the man saying, Help, help. I mean, I would have -- I would have helped if I could have!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then I heard, like, a -- from my window, Pop, pop, pop.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my gosh! I hope that young boy (INAUDIBLE) imagine. I`ve never seen anyone killed!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why didn`t you go to the wake or the funeral?
JEANTEL: I didn`t want to see the body.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) someone killed, laying in the grass. Oh, my God! I want to know what happened. Why would this man just shoot him?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Live to Florida. Seventeen-year-old Trayvon`s family storms out when shocking photos of their son face down dead in the dirt projected overhead. Zimmerman`s defense now claiming gunshot residue will absolutely prove 17- year-old Martin was attacking the 29-year-old head of neighborhood watch.
We learned the night of the deadly shooting, police try to revive the boy with Saran wrap and Vaseline. In a stunning turn, the defense now claiming that the high school junior was armed with a deadly weapon. The weapon? The sidewalk.
Bombshell tonight. Two eyewitnesses spot the two men struggling in the dark, but who`s on top? We learn Trayvon Martin in fear, running for his life just before he`s gunned down.
We are live at the courthouse and taking your calls. Straight out to Jean Casarez, HLN legal correspondent. Jean, what a day in the courtroom! We had one witness threatening to walk out, vowing she`s not going to come back tomorrow. What happened in court?
JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, Nancy, today the trial turned a course because now it is a credibility issue, the most relevant issue before the jury. Who do you believe? Do you believe George Zimmerman, or do you believe witness number eight, the woman we have been waiting for? She`s 19 years old, Rachel Jeantel. And her testimony was that when -- I`ll tell you later, Nancy. Her testimony was compelling.
GRACE: You know what, Jean? I want to hear your take on this. Listen to this eyewitness account. It was just played, 911 call, moments ago in the courtroom.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God. He shot -- he shot the person. He said he shot the person!
911 OPERATOR: Who`s saying they shot who?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People out there. A guy is raising his hands up. He`s saying he shot a person. I think it`s a police officer that`s with him right now, arrest -- oh, my God! (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: (INAUDIBLE) officer is there. He has somebody at gunpoint. They`re going to handle the situation from here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God! Someone`s been shot!
911 OPERATOR: It`s probably going to be best if you stay inside your home for the time being, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know, but I can see someone is killed! (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Listen, we don`t know if they`ve been killed, OK? We know they`ve probably been...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just said he shot him dead! The person is dead, laying on the ground!
911 OPERATOR: Just because he`s laying on the ground...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God!
911 OPERATOR: Just because he`s laying on the ground doesn`t mean he`s passed. We have an ambulance on the way, as well. We`re going to probably pick him up and take him to the hospital.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn`t see because it was so dark, and I just heard people screaming, Help me, help me. And this person shot him. He was, like, wrestling with him (INAUDIBLE) on the ground, from what I could see. It was very dark.
911 OPERATOR: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it`s a police officer (INAUDIBLE). The man didn`t try to run away or anything.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: The jury stunned when they heard that 911 call from that witness on the stand. Jean Casarez, how did the jury react?
CASAREZ: They were focused. They were writing some notes. But it was one of the most emotional 911 calls you have ever heard. It was one of the longest. He got to a point where he had to ask her if she had preexisting medical conditions because of her hysteria.
But on cross-examination, she admitted that the one with the dark sweatshirt, that he was on top and the other man was on the bottom.
GRACE: So that does not help Trayvon`s case at all! Matt Zarrell, that places Trayvon on top. Now, a lot of people would argue that that`s irrelevant because Zimmerman was the original aggressor because he was following Trayvon Martin.
But then when a jury hears that the one in the dark sweatshirt or the dark hoodie or shirt or jacket was on top, that makes it sound more like Trayvon is the aggressor.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Nancy. This witness was state witness number is 11, Jean Manalo (ph). She testified that when she saw the two men on the ground, the person on top definitely had a dark-colored shirt or jacket. Now, that`s important because remember that the night of the shooting that George Zimmerman was wearing a red-colored jacket. Trayvon Martin was wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt, as you know. But the witness described it only as a dark-colored shirt or jacket, did not know the color.
GRACE: Let me ask you this, Matt Zarrell, because she -- didn`t she say men in dark clothing? Did she identified the man on the bottom in a red jacket? Did he even see a red jacket?
ZARRELL: No. She did not say anything about a red jacket. And one thing that the defense continuously points out is the weather and the time of the day, that it was dark out and it was raining, and that made it much more difficult for all of these eyewitness to see anything.
GRACE: All right, I want to warn you, I am about to show graphic photos. These photos include Trayvon`s body. I do not want to see his dead face, Liz. I don`t want to see that photo. Let me warn you because the photos that I`m about to show you -- if you guys would roll them in New York -- show you how dark it is out there. Not that photo, the photo of the scene with Trayvon`s body. Now, that is with police lighting. And as we scroll through them, you will see that it is dark outside. Again, this is with police lighting.
Now, as you get away from the police lighting, you can see how dark it is in the distance. So I don`t see how anybody can see who`s got on a red jacket and who`s got on a black jacket.
I don`t see how they can say that, Jean Casarez.
CASAREZ: These witnesses are so emotional, Nancy, and they have made conclusions. I mean, this witness, Jane Sirdika (ph), that had the emotional 911 call -- she said there was a soft voice and there was a dominant voice. And she concluded it was murder as she was watching it, and she concluded the dominant voice was George Zimmerman.
GRACE: OK, let`s hear the rest of the 911.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m at (INAUDIBLE) Retreat View Circle, and I`m looking out my back town home, and someone is screaming help. And I don`t know. I heard, like, a bang.
911 OPERATOR: Now, you said you live at 3231 Retreat View?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 3031 Retreat View Circle.
911 OPERATOR: Do you...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A town home.
911 OPERATOR: ... 31 Retreat View?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. And I`m looking out my window, like, my back yard, and someone is yelling and screaming help. And I heard, like, a pop noise. And they`re both still out there right now. I don`t know what`s going on.
911 OPERATOR: Well, I can tell you right now you`re not the only person that`s calling. We already have one officer on scene and another on the way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, good. Oh, my God! I see the person right now. I see him, like, walking. There`s a man coming out. There`s people coming out with flashlights. Oh, my God. I don`t know what he did to this person.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t see. There`s a man walking out with a flashlight right now.
911 OPERATOR: ... that was making the noise?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pardon?
911 OPERATOR: Was it a male or a female voice that was screaming?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I guess a -- I don`t know. The man is up right now. Someone`s coming over. I`m glad other people called.
911 OPERATOR: All right, we should be out there right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can -- (INAUDIBLE) I didn`t go down there and say anything.
911 OPERATOR: Well, for now, you might want to just stay in your house, wait for things to calm down a little bit. It`s possible they might have an investigator go door to door to see if anyone else might have heard or seen anything else out of the ordinary.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
911 OPERATOR: So of course, if you hear a knock at your door and it`s an officer, you probably should answer it and talk to them. It might make you feel a little better, as well, because they can tell you exactly what`s going on and the details and whether or not you should be (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a lot of -- I hear a lot of cars.
911 OPERATOR: Yes, they`re...
(CROSSTALK)
911 OPERATOR: ... probably going to be a lot of sirens. But trust me, the sirens -- the sirens will be over soon. And they`re probably going to take this guy to the hospital if...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... all the cars are outside my house right now in the front. Sorry. I`m just shaking.
911 OPERATOR: That`s OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) I guess -- sorry. It just blows my mind. I guess I`m (INAUDIBLE) to think of someone to call, a friend or something, if they`re home.
911 OPERATOR: If you have a friend or someone you can call and talk to, that can, you know...
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Jonathan Beaton, reporter with WDBO. Jonathan, what went down in court today?
JONATHAN BEATON, WDBO: Well, a lot of emotion, Nancy. I mean, throughout this trial, there`s been a lot. But today, with this 911 call being played, you could see this witness on the stand wiping away tears throughout the call. Also, in the gallery, Trayvon Martin`s parents during this phone call wiping away tears.
Then later in the afternoon, when witness eight was put on the stand, you could see Tracy Martin, Trayvon`s father, putting his head in his hands, weeping. At some points, Sybrina would lean over and sometimes they`d whisper to each other. But definitely an emotional day for the Martin family.
GRACE: Oh, Jean, who is witness number eight? Is that Jeantel?
CASAREZ: Yes, it is, Rachel Jeantel.
GRACE: All right, Liz, let`s hear witness number eight. That`s what I want to hear. Jean, that`s what you were telling me about at the beginning. What is the significance of Jeantel`s testimony?
CASAREZ: She is the last one that spoke to Trayvon. She is the one that spoke to him while George Zimmerman allegedly was following him. Does her testimony match up with what George said?
GRACE: Got it. Let`s take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Trayvon Martin complain?
JEANTEL: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was he complaining about?
JEANTEL: That a man just kept watching him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After he said that, what -- did you say anything back to him, or did he say anything back to you?
JEANTEL: Yes. I asked him how the man looked like. He just told me the man -- the man looked creepy and...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said the man looked creepy.
JEANTEL: Creepy, white -- excuse my language -- cracker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And what did you say?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, they`re having trouble hearing you. So take your time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A creepy white-ass cracker. Trayvon (INAUDIBLE) a creepy-ass cracker was following him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEANTEL: ... creepy-ass cracker -- what`s the question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The question was, your -- they want you to repeat your answer, when you said what you...
(CROSSTALK)
JEANTEL: I asked him how the man looked like. He looked like a creepy-ass cracker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Let me make sure we got that. Creepy...
JEANTEL: Ass cracker.Ass cracker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cracker.
JEANTEL: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Is that what you recall him saying?
JEANTEL: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And that to mean like a white individual?
JEANTEL: Yes, Caucasian.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you say to him, or what did he say to you after that?
JEANTEL: So he told me that a man was looking at him. So I had to think it might have been a rapist (INAUDIBLE) might have been a rapist.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You told him the man might be a rapist?
JEANTEL: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And what else did you say to him and what did he say to you?
JEANTEL: (INAUDIBLE) stop playing around like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry.
(CROSSTALK)
JEANTEL: (INAUDIBLE) him like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He -- Mr. Trayvon Martin told you stop playing with him like that...
JEANTEL: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... like joking like that?
JEANTEL: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And then what happened next?
JEANTEL: I told him, OK, then why he keep looking at you. So...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Did Mr. Martin say the guy kept looking at him?
JEANTEL: Yes. He just told me he was going to try to lose him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Gary Casimir, Peter Odom. All right, Peter, she says to Trayvon Martin, You better run. That`s what she`s about to say before the control room cut it off, You better run. And Trayvon Martin starts running. He`s afraid.
Now, tell me what scenario on God`s green earth can turn him, Trayvon Martin, a 17-year-old high school junior into the aggressor in that scenario.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, when you say he started running, he was scared, those are your words.
GRACE: No, they`re not my words.
ODOM: There`s nothing to indicate...
(CROSSTALK)
ODOM: There`s nothing to indicate...
GRACE: No, Peter, I just told you...
ODOM: ... that he was running and he was scared.
GRACE: I just told you...
ODOM: What she said...
GRACE: ... that the -- hold on. Let me cut your mike myself. I just got that installed here, and it`s so handy. What I just said was that the New York control room in their wisdom cut that testimony off just when she was about to say, I told him you better run, and I could hear him breathing. Now, in that scenario, how does Trayvon Martin then turn into the aggressor?
ODOM: Well, Nancy, was he running toward George Zimmerman or away?
GRACE: Away from him!
ODOM: Well, how do you know? You don`t know that. You weren`t there...
GRACE: OK, Gary...
ODOM: ... anymore than that witness was there.
GRACE: Gary, just as I am telling you, you hear her on the stand say, I told him he better run, and he started running. Those are the facts. I mean, you can`t argue the facts. That`s what we`re given.
GARY CASIMIR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s right.
GRACE: Don`t argue is the sky blue. That`s a fact. It`s a given. Now, my question to you since Peter doesn`t want to acknowledge the facts -- my question to you, Casimir, is, under what scenario can the defense now claim Trayvon Martin is the aggressor?
CASIMIR: Well, I think the scenario comes right out of the witness`s mouth, when Rachel Jeantel says she heard Trayvon say, Why you following me? Now it becomes a different stance. It`s not a running away stance, it`s a taking a position.
If you think of it consistent with Florida "stand your ground" rules, at that moment in time, Trayvon turns around and says, Why are you following me? And then you hear Jeantel (INAUDIBLE) Rachel say he heard a man breathing heavy, saying, What are you doing around here?
The evidence has to be looked at in totality, the context by which that this is being looked at is what all the jurors are going to see in the total picture. So there`s more to it than that, and that`s when the aggressive stance may change.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are live and taking your calls. Out to Latonya, Mississippi. Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I want to make (INAUDIBLE) when Zimmerman got out of his car, you heard the door open, you know, when he got out. So right when -- when Trayvon Martin started -- you know, when we was running and Zimmerman told on the 911 call that he was following him, right then, you heard the wind going, you know, past the -- on his phone. That indicated to me that Zimmerman then was running behind Trayvon Martin because you heard...
GRACE: Hey, you know what, Latonya? You know what? You`re right because you hear -- Latonya in Mississippi is talking about the 911 call Zimmerman made to report that he says Trayvon Martin walking along.
I`m glad you said that because, Jean Casarez, doesn`t Zimmerman say he`s starting to run?
CASAREZ: To the back entrance, that`s right. And that`s when you hear the door open. You hear the chimes, according to the defense. He did follow him about nine seconds and then stopped following him.
GRACE: OK. All right, Peter Odom, Gary Casimir, you happy now? You happy, Peter? You`ve got Zimmerman, the defendant himself, saying he, Trayvon, is starting to run from Zimmerman. He`s running. He`s...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... he`s running and they say, stop following him. And we now know that he did not stop following him. So...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... he`s running.
CASIMIR: There`s no doubt Zimmerman didn`t...
ODOM: I don`t see it that way.
CASIMIR: ... follow instructions here. He didn`t follow...
(CROSSTALK)
CASIMIR: ... but that doesn`t make him...
GRACE: Odom! Odom! Odom! What? You still don`t believe -- when the defendant himself says Trayvon Martin is running, you still don`t think he`s running?
ODOM: Yes, he`s running and he`s running toward George Zimmerman to attack George Zimmerman.
GRACE: No!
ODOM: Nancy, this evidence is ambiguous...
GRACE: That`s not what Zimmerman says!
ODOM: ... at best.
GRACE: That`s not what Zimmerman says.
ODOM: Zimmerman says...
GRACE: Zimmerman says...
ODOM: ... he`s running.
GRACE: ... he`s running, and the police say, Don`t follow him. He`s following him. Why can`t -- put him up! Why can`t you accept the defendant is chasing him? What -- what...
ODOM: Nancy, why can`t you accept that this evidence is ambiguous? It doesn`t favor either side. That`s what`s going on here.
GRACE: OK...
ODOM: All this evidence today has been ambiguous.
GRACE: Somebody help me!
CASIMIR: Yes, I think, Nancy...
GRACE: Jean Casarez, could you -- go ahead, Casimir.
CASIMIR: I think, Nancy, you know, we can`t deny the facts here with regard to what you just said, that Zimmerman was pursuing him. He`s on the phone saying, I see somebody, I`m pursuing him. The question is, Do the tables turn? Does Zimmerman now become the defender here? Can that happen? Is there a situation where that can happen?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Out to Frank Taaffe, a good friend of George Zimmerman. Frank, you`ve heard the 911 call. You know what`s there. Please explain to me this scenario how Zimmerman becomes the victim and Trayvon Martin becomes the aggressor.
FRANK TAAFFE, FRIEND OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Easily.
GRACE: OK.
TAAFFE: He gets out of the vehicle. First of all, the 911 is not law enforcement. He`s a civilian. Secondly, he was complicit when the 911 operator said -- he also -- let me back up a minute. He said to him, Let us know if he does anything else. So George was the eyes and ears, which is in the handbook...
GRACE: I`m waiting for you to get to the point.
TAAFFE: ... the eyes and ears -- OK. He`s on the way out. He`s on the phone with 911, and they ask him that, We don`t need you follow. He says OK. They ask him for an address. He gets out, he looks for an address, and in his...
GRACE: Still waiting.
TAAFFE: ... statement to the police, on the way back to his vehicle in the darkest part of the T, he is jumped by Trayvon.
GRACE: OK. That`s not at all how -- OK, where did he turn into the one who`s fleeing? Because he follows Trayvon Martin all the way, all the way into the location of the altercation.
TAAFFE: Trayvon Martin was already at his house. He was not even -- and according to Chad Johnson (ph), his roommate at the time, upon cross- examination...
GRACE: Well, he was already at his daddy`s house? Then why was he laying out there in the middle of the grass? That`s not his father`s house.
TAAFFE: He went back to see who this guy was that was following him because he had a lot of paranoia because we know he was up here on suspension. And he went back...
GRACE: On suspension from high school?
TAAFFE: Yes, ma`am. He was on suspension for a marijuana baggy and some burglary tools and some jewels.
GRACE: Honey, get in line. I guess about 60 percent of America is having a big fat doobie right now. I don`t think he was paranoid because he had a glassine baggy at school in another city. I think he was freaked out and paranoid because he was being followed by some guy in the middle of the night!
TAAFFE: Well, let me ask you this. If he were that close to your home, why wouldn`t you just go in, like the defense has been contending...
GRACE: Because maybe he never made it home.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEANTEL: I had told you -- are you listening? I had told you what happened during the Crump interview. I had rush on me. Are you listening?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can break until the morning, if that --
JEANTEL: No. I`m leaving today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s that?
JEANTEL: I`m leaving today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you refusing to come back tomorrow?
JEANTEL: To you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need to keep this a question and answer about her testimony. How much more time do you think that you need to finish your cross?
DON WEST, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: I most certainly wouldn`t -- I don`t for sure. I would think we should plan on at least a couple of hours.
JEANTEL: What?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Excuse me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Hey, you know what? I`ve had plenty of witnesses that felt the same way. It has been many a day at the end of a courtroom day I felt the same way that Jeantel just showed she felt.
Well, the courtroom nearly exploded today with this witness on the stand. Jeantel is the last person to speak to Trayvon Martin that evening. In fact she was on the phone with him, according to her testimony, when he got into the encounter with Zimmerman and then was shot to death.
I want to go back out to Frank Taaffe, friend of George Zimmerman.
Mr. Taaffe, now you are telling me --
TAAFFE: Yes.
GRACE: -- that Trayvon Martin makes it all the way to his father`s home then turns around and comes back on --
TAAFFE: Yes.
GRACE: Now why do you say that?
TAAFFE: A, according to the testimony that Didi gave on more than one occasion, she stated that Trayvon -- she told Trayvon to run and Trayvon said, I`m not going to run. And she said, why not? He said, because he was right next to his dad`s house. Now one point I want to bring up --
GRACE: He said he was almost to his father`s house.
TAAFFE: He was next to his daddy`s house. Those were her words, that`s her testimony.
GRACE: And?
TAAFFE: And upon cross yesterday, Chad, who was Trayvon`s younger half brother, was asked by Mr. O`Mara how close was the back of their porch to where the T was, to where Trayvon was shot and he shared with Mr. O`Mara, Mr. O`Mara asked him could you throw a football to that location. Now, Chad said, sure I could. So that shows you the close proximity --
GRACE: Well, how far is that? How far is that?
TAAFFE: It`s less than 100 yards. It`s a 110 yards from the T.
GRACE: It`s a shame he never made it. It`s a shame he never made it, isn`t it, Mr. Taaffe?
TAAFFE: Sure.
GRACE: A hundred yards?
TAAFFE: I -- it is a shame.
GRACE: A hundred yards? You think that`s close?
TAAFFE: I`ve walked it, I`ve crawled it in under 30 seconds.
GRACE: That`s a football field. That`s a long way.
TAAFFE: It`s a football field. It`s -- but, you know, Trayvon was a football player.
GRACE: You are so busted. That`s not even close. That`s not even close at all, Taaffe.
TAAFFE: He could run the 100 in under 10 seconds. If he was that scared from a creepy --
GRACE: Now when he`s dead he couldn`t.
TAAFFE: Nancy, he was home. He was home.
GRACE: OK. Wasn`t the father`s girlfriend home?
TAAFFE: I`ve walked that, I`ve crawled it -- yes, it`s Brandy Green`s house that Trayvon was staying.
GRACE: Did she say he came in and left?
TAAFFE: Well, you know, it`s surprising, according to Tracy Martin --
GRACE: No.
TAAFFE: In his interview with the police, he said he saw Trayvon on the porch at 8:00 that night. So there`s a lot of inconsistencies as Miss Jeantel stated today.
GRACE: My question to you, Mr. Taaffe was, did anyone in that home say Trayvon came in and left? That`s a yes or no.
TAAFFE: No.
GRACE: All right. OK.
TAAFFE: But let`s look at --
GRACE: But what?
TAAFFE: Let`s keep our -- let`s common sense here. A hundred yards, someone is a creepy -- a person.
GRACE: Creepy ass cracker. That`s what he said.
TAAFFE: Is chasing me.
GRACE: That`s what he said.
TAAFFE: OK. All right. Creepy ass saltine cracker. OK?
GRACE: Whatever.
TAAFFE: He`s chasing him. And -- OK. Whatever. But you`re 100 yards to safety. Why won`t you go home? You`re there, you`re there, Nancy.
GRACE: Because he got shot dead?
TAAFFE: I`m here, I`m here, Trayvon was there.
GRACE: All right. To Jasmine Rand.
TAAFFE: Trayvon had plenty of time.
GRACE: Attorney for Martin`s family. Miss Rand, is there any suggestion from anyone in that home that Trayvon Martin came in and then went back turning him into the aggressor? I`m looking for Jasmine Rand. And let me just go ahead and warn you, control room, I`m also looking for Bill Shaffer. All right. There you go.
All right. Jasmine, does anyone say he came in the home and then left to go chase down Zimmerman?
JASMINE RAND, ATTORNEY FOR TRAYVON MARTIN`S FAMILY: Mr. Taaffe is the only person that I`ve heard allude to the fact that Trayvon Martin went in the home. There`s absolutely no evidence that Trayvon Martin went into the home.
And I`d like to point out to Mr. Taaffe that no matter how fast Trayvon could run --
TAAFFE: You kind of (INAUDIBLE) that. I said --
RAND: He could not --
GRACE: I`m sorry, I keep hearing something.
RAND: Trayvon could not outrun a bullet.
TAAFFE: Trayvon couldn`t outrun George Zimmerman? Are you kidding me?
GRACE: No, she said --
TAAFFE: George Zimmerman is a meek, mild 28-year-old man.
RAND: My --
TAAFFE: OK? Now what I`m saying --
GRACE: That`s not what he said.
TAAFFE: I didn`t allude to the fact, I said, OK, I said, clearly hat he had enough time to go back home and get back to the T in under 30 seconds. I`m not saying that he was in the house, but he had the ability and he was there.
GRACE: OK. Let me ask you this.
TAAFFE: He`s at the house.
GRACE: Mr. Taaffe, is there any evidence at all, anybody that places him back at his home?
TAAFFE: I think one of the witnesses said she sad saw a shadowy figure go from left to right. And she could not see the figure but she said -- and the house was left to right.
GRACE: But let me go out to Bill Sheaffer. Let`s get now to the bottom of it.
Former prosecutor, WFTV legal analyst, Bill, let`s hear your thoughts.
BILL SHEAFFER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, WFTV LEGAL ANALYST: The evidence that we have at this point as to what occurred between Zimmerman and Martin came from witness Jeantel. She spent two, almost two and a half hours saying that she heard over the telephone that Zimmerman is the one that confronted Martin and that then -- a struggle enthused.
GRACE: Jeantel, right?
SHEAFFER: Now -- yes. Now, there`s a problem with that and be patient with me. The problem with that is that she was wonderful on direct and then cross-examination happened and she is everything that you as a lawyer don`t want as a witness.
GRACE: She`s awful.
SHEAFFER: She has now said --
GRACE: You`re right. She`s awful.
SHEAFFER: And she has now admitted as to a material fact in this case that she has given two prior inconsistent statements, two different statements under oath as to what she told this jury.
GRACE: She did.
SHEAFFER: Number two, she is hostile, she is combative, and -- excuse me, West did nothing to bring that on. She managed in five minutes to undercut two and a half hours of good testimony. Now guess what? Guess what you`re going to hear? George Zimmerman will testify, he has to testify. This is not a stand your ground. This is classic self-defense.
I want you to come back to me so I can explain something to you.
GRACE: Unleash the other lawyers, Gary Casimir, Peter Odom.
All right, Casimir, weigh in.
CASIMIR: Well, I`ll tell you right now I did (INAUDIBLE) the prosecution`s case was supposed to be a slam dunk today and it was not. Rachel did not do any justice to the prosecution. As you could tell she gave conflicting testimony. She`s hostile. I don`t think the jury likes her.
GRACE: All right, Peter, she floundered on cross.
ODOM: Right.
GRACE: There`s no way around it. I mean, I`m buying the state`s case here but this is the main witness, Jeantel, she`s awful. She got caught lying, she admitted to lying. But the thing she`s got going for her is that her testimony lines up with Zimmerman`s 911 call, Peter.
ODOM: Nancy --
GRACE: Now look. You were a prosecutor before you went to the other side. When -- even though she was horrible on cross exam, it was just -- it hurt. My teeth hurt. It lines up with Zimmerman`s own 911 call.
ODOM: Look, Nancy. If this is the state`s star witness, she`s a falling star. Her credibility is gone.
GRACE: I bet you`ve been saving that one.
(LAUGHTER)
Let`s hear it from the horse`s mouth. Here`s Jeantel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take as much time as you want. Read the whole thing if you want or maybe we can break until the morning.
JEANTEL: No. I`m leaving today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s that?
JEANTEL: I`m leaving today. Nope.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you refusing to come back tomorrow?
JEANTEL: To you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you refusing --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. We need to keep this a question and answer about her testimony. How much more time do you think that you need to finish your cross?
WEST: Well, I certainly wouldn`t -- I don`t know for sure. I would think we should plan on at least a couple of hours.
JEANTEL: What?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Excuse me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JEANTEL: I had told you -- are you listening?
WEST: Yes, ma`am.
JEANTEL: I had told you what happened to me in cross interview. Are you listening?
WEST: One more time. I`m sorry. I was distracted. You told me what?
JEANTEL: I had told you during the interview, and before that interview I had told if the officer wanted to talk to me they could talk to me to know exactly what happened. And I had told you that on the depo. And I had told -- and they seen it right there I rush it. I had told you I rush on him.
WEST: When you say you rushed on you mean you hadn`t thought it through carefully to be sure that --
JEANTEL: I should tell that -- Trayvon part, told the Trayvon part.
WEST: Are you saying that you rushed through it and didn`t think about it carefully enough to be sure that you told it accurately?
JEANTEL: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: She goes on to say she never called police. She didn`t think she had to because on "First 48," it was a very, very popular crime show, police always call the last person to speak to the dead guy.
All right. Caryn Stark, a lot of people have been taking pot shots at her for that. But you know what? Everybody who watches the true crime shows, they think that`s how it really goes down. She`s in high school, for Pete`s sake. You know, what does everybody expect from her? You know, yes, in a perfect world if she were a mature adult I`d expect her to call police, and go, hey, I now know that Trayvon Martin was shot. I was talking to him that night. I just wanted to tell you that.
She is a high school kid, for Pete`s sake. I don`t care what -- people may think she looks like on the stand. They may think she is older. She`s not older. OK? So the fact that on "First 48" the cops always call the last person to speak to the deceased so she just assumed that`s the way it was going to happen. I don`t see why legal eagles are making such a big deal out f that. In my mind she`s a kid.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: She`s definitely a kid. And you can tell, Nancy, that she`s so nervous and that this is an uncomfortable situation for her and clearly having trouble being a good witness.
GRACE: She`s just being real. You know what?
STARK: Yes.
GRACE: How many times have all of us lawyers I know for a fact been in court and felt like saying, I ain`t coming back. Uh-uh. That she actually said it. We might think it but she actually said it. So you know --
STARK: But she doesn`t know to not say it. I feel like she`s not somebody who`s sophisticated enough to know what`s the right thing to say or even how to represent herself. I also feel like when you talk about Zimmerman being a meek, mild, not that you said that, but his friend said he was a meek, mild man, I don`t see that at all, Nancy.
And I just want to point out that this guy is a vigilante. I mean, he chose to have a job where he`s pursuing somebody. And he keeps looking at these young black guys and saying, you know, they`re suspicious, this one`s -- he was told not to -- I think the most salient point here is he was told not to follow Trayvon and he did.
GRACE: All right, Taaffe?
TAAFFE: He was told not to follow and he was complicit. When he was already en route out of the truck. He was never ordered to stay in the truck.
I want to drop the bomb on you tonight, Nancy. We need -- there`s some evidence out there, they talked about who`s the -- who was on top, who was on the bottom. If you review the picture of Trayvon Martin`s pants, he`s got grass stains on the front of his knees, OK, and is clearly -- you can go on the Internet, you can Google it, whatever you need to do, and you will clearly see grass stains on the front of the khaki pants.
That`s going to be big because you don`t get grass stains on the front of you pants by laying on your back, do you?
GRACE: No, you don`t. And tell me how that`s going to play out in your scenario.
TAAFFE: Well, there`s a lot of speculation as to who was on the top and who was on the bottom. I know who was on top, it was Trayvon and George was on the bottom. On the evidence of the photo you`ll see grass stains. And when he mounted --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back. Out to Dr. William Morrone, medical examiner, forensic pathologist., Madison Heights.
Dr. Morrone, you have examined the evidence, what the injury is. I think that the defense can use grass stains on the front of Trayvon`s pants to their advantage to show he was on top, but I think it`s still going to boil back down to who was the aggressor. Who was on top at that moment could be persuasive but even if Trayvon Martin had gotten on top, does that mean that he was the aggressor? That he started the fight? What have you observed with the injury?
DR. WILLIAM R. MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER; FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, TOXICOLOGIST: There`s no medical evidence that can prove who was the aggressor but clearly this is a homicide and I would say that the gunshot wound appeared a lot closer from the description in the autopsy than it was described. It was described as intermediate. And I think it was only a few inches.
And Mr. Martin died quickly. The bullet entered the left side of his chest but the right side of his heart and he lost blood pressure almost instantly. And based on normal cardiac output, he was dead in 20 seconds or less.
GRACE: Why are you saying that the gunshot wound was closer than intermediate? What are you talking about? Contact wound less than 36 inches? What?
MORRONE: It`s just -- it looks a lot closer because the stippling, the carbon, the abrasive ring all had to go through his clothes and I think it`s a lot closer than the intermediate. But we`ll have to see the forensic diagrams which they haven`t produced yet. I believe the wound was closer.
GRACE: I mean, let me see Jasmine Rand and Frank Taaffe.
My thing is this, Jasmine Rand, I mean, a gun makes a big man little and a little man big. How can you be the victim -- that`s just my hang-up -- when you`re the one with the gun and the dead guy is unarmed? Now how can that be?
RAND: I think that we can all agree from a legal perspective that certainly the self-defense claim could have shifted from person to person.
GRACE: Yes.
RAND: But in this case that never shifted. And at every single point in time George Zimmerman was pursuing Trayvon Martin with a loaded gun with a bullet in the chamber. So the defense burden never shifted. Trayvon Martin in fact was the person who had the right to self-defense at every single time because Zimmerman never divested himself of his gun.
GRACE: Taaffe?
TAAFFE: His gun was holstered inside of his waistband. He wasn`t -- it wasn`t flawing about. So --
GRACE: Then how did he get a bullet in the chest if his gun was holstered in his waistband.
TAAFFE: One again, in the reenactment to the Sanford Police, George said that Trayvon, when he was struggling and he had his hand over his mouth trying to prevent him from yelling more, the gun got exposed, he reached up and he shot it. And that`s at enemy --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We remember American hero, Marine Sergeant Frank Zarenger III, 23, Reno, Nevada. Purple Heart, two Navy and Marine Achievement medals, Combat Action Ribbon, parents Frank and Sharon. Sister Nicole, Widow Cassie, daughters Nadia and Valerie.
Frank Zarenger III, American hero.
And now back to the coverage of the George Zimmerman-Trayvon Martin murder trial.
To Deedee in California. Hi, dear, what`s your question?
(CROSSTALK)
DEEDEE, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hello.
GRACE: Hi, Deedee, cut your phone off. What`s your question, dear? I mean cut your TV off.
DEEDEE: OK. Well, my question is -- OK, like, I think his name was Mr. Taaffe --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I`m sorry. I cannot hear you with your TV going.
Jean Casarez, tell me what`s going to happen tomorrow. We`re getting floods of e-mails and calls that people think Jeantel ruined the case for Trayvon Martin.
CASAREZ: Well, cross-examination continues tomorrow. They`re going to look for all of the inconsistencies they can find.
GRACE: Rachel Jeantel set to go back on the stand tomorrow morning. We will be there, continuing coverage tomorrow night.
Tonight, a special good night to Kevin whose daughters, here they are, stopped by and alive after 5:00 to help us raise money for the Murphy Harp`s Home for Abused Children.
Thank you, friends.
Everyone, court is over for today. It will start up at 0900 and we`ll be there. "DR. DREW" up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
END
