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Nancy Grace
Was Trayvon High on Pot?; Friends and Family Members Testify in Zimmerman Murder Trial
Aired July 08, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911. Do you need police, fire, medical?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe both. I`m not sure. There`s just someone screaming outside.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After listening to the tape maybe 20 times, that was Trayvon`s voice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In fact, his son is calling for help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what was his response?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Looked away, and under his breath, as I interpreted it, said no.
911 OPERATOR: Does he look hurt?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tracy Martin saying that was not his son`s voice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was not his son`s voice (INAUDIBLE)
TRACY MARTIN, TRAYVON`S FATHER: My response was -- I didn`t tell them, No, that wasn`t Trayvon. I just kind of shook my head and said, I can`t tell.
MARK O`MARA, ZIMMERMAN DEFENSE ATTORNEY: So your words were, I can`t tell.
MARTIN: Something to that effect. But I never said, No, that that wasn`t my son`s voice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, there`s no doubt that he was telling us that didn`t sound like his son to him.
MARTIN: Basically, what I was listening to -- I was listening to my son`s last cry for help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think they`re yelling help, but I don`t know.
O`MARA: Whose voice is it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George Zimmerman`s voice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was Georgie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought it was George.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s George screaming for help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is George Zimmerman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know what`s going on, so...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re sending.
O`MARA: Did you instruct him to say that the police lied about it being your son`s voice?
MARTIN: I never instructed anyone to say anything. I was listening to his life being taken, coming to grips that Trayvon was here no more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
We are live tonight, Sanford, Florida. A 17-year-old heads home to his father`s condo, gunned down by the captain of neighborhood watch. Tonight, all eyes on that Sanford courtroom.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, Trayvon Martin`s father takes the stand and says the cops are lying, the defense bringing on a string of witnesses swearing the voice screaming for help in that 911 call is Zimmerman.
And in a stunning blow to the state, the judge allows in evidence trace amounts of marijuana in Trayvon Martin`s blood that night. The jury watching a 7-Eleven video of Martin just before his death. Was he high? Does it matter? Trayvon Martin`s father on the stand, on the verge of tears, says, I had to listen to my son die.
We are taking your calls. Straight out to Jean Casarez, HLN legal correspondent. Jean, what happened when Trayvon Martin`s father took the stand?
JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: I knew it was going to happen because the lead investigator was called to the stand, another law enforcement, Doris Singleton. They both testified that Tracy Martin, with his body actions, they could tell that he was saying it wasn`t Trayvon`s voice on the 911 call.
Trayvon Martin`s father walked up to that stand. And he is so elegant, Nancy. He`s such a tall man, with such a presence in that courtroom. He testified, I can`t tell.
This is a prelude, though, by the defense for I think calling Benjamin Crump because it was Benjamin Crump that then had that press conference that said that Tracy Martin believed it was his son`s voice.
GRACE: Let`s go in the courtroom. On the stand, Trayvon Martin`s father.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O`MARA: At the end of that tape, do you recall Officer Serino asking you whether or not you could identify your son`s voice?
MARTIN: Not those exact words, but something to that nature, yes.
O`MARA: OK. Do you recall the words as best you can recall that he used?
MARTIN: As best as I recall, after he played the tape, he basically just said, Do you recognize the voice?
O`MARA: And what was your response?
MARTIN: My response was that -- I didn`t tell him that I didn`t know -- I didn`t tell him, No, that wasn`t Trayvon. I kind of -- I think the chairs had wheels on them, and I kind of pushed away from the -- away from the table and just kind of shook my head and said, I can`t tell.
O`MARA: So your words were, I can`t tell?
MARTIN: Something to that effect. But I never said, No, that that wasn`t my son`s voice.
O`MARA: You heard Officer Serino testify that you said no, correct?
MARTIN: Correct.
O`MARA: And you heard Officer Singleton also testify that she was about eight or ten feet and she heard you say no, or an indication that you acknowledged it was not Trayvon`s voice, is that correct?
MARTIN: Before Officer Singleton even testified -- the first time Officer Singleton testified, that was the first time I`d ever seen her. I had no idea that she was even in the vicinity.
O`MARA: Right. You didn`t notice her there, correct?
MARTIN: No.
O`MARA: But you heard her testify that she heard you, correct?
MARTIN: Yes, I heard her testify.
O`MARA: When she was here today.
MARTIN: I heard her testify to that, but I didn`t see her in the room.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: "I didn`t see her in the room," he says. Bottom line, he is basically saying, Cops are lying. I never said that.
Out to you, Jonathan Beaton joining me from WDBO. Let me do the setup for those of us -- for those of them just joining us. Trayvon Martin`s father was just on the stand. We are live, taking your calls, situated in Sanford, Florida.
And when Tracy Martin -- that`s Trayvon`s father -- gets on the stand, he responded to what some police had to say. What some of the police said was that when Mr. Martin, Tracy Martin, heard the 911 call, he said, That`s not Trayvon. Then he gets on the stand and says the cops are lying. In fact, that cop wasn`t even in the room.
All right, out to you, Jonathan Beaton. What happened?
JONATHAN BEATON, WDBO: Well, I think any sort of progress that the defense made by putting those two investigators on the stand and hearing that testimony with them saying, you know, Trayvon Martin`s father, Tracy, he kind of looked down and he mumbled under his breath no, when he was asked, you know, Are those screams Trayvon Martin`s -- and by putting Tracy Martin on the stand, I think maybe some legal analysts will look back and say, you know, maybe it wasn`t the best idea because he was stoic. He was strong. And his testimony, I think, resonated with that jury.
GRACE: Matt Zarrell, explain to me how we got to this point. Who all was put up on the stand to say that Trayvon Martin`s father denied that was Trayvon Martin screaming and dying?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): OK, Nancy, well, the defense put forth an array of witnesses today, including some that we`ve seen before, like Mark Osterman, his wife, Sondra Osterman, a number of other witnesses...
GRACE: Right.
ZARRELL: ... who all testified that George Zimmerman was the one...
GRACE: Uh-oh. Hold on. Lost Matt Zarrell. We`ll get right back on his satellite.
Joining me right now, a good friend of George Zimmerman, speaking on his behalf. Mr. Frank Taaffe is joining us, also out of Florida.
Frank, what about it? Trayvon Martin`s father gets on the stand and calls the cops a liar. He said, That`s not what I said. In fact, that cop wasn`t even on the room when I heard the 911 call.
FRANK TAAFFE, FRIEND OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Nancy, this reminds me of the old rhyme, Oh, what a tangled web we weave, and I think it`s to -- when we first practice to deceive. Let`s call it what it is...
GRACE: It`s not a rhyme, actually. It was part of iambic pentameter by William Shakespeare.
TAAFFE: Oh, that`s poetry. I forgot.
GRACE: In fact, if in your world, if you call it a rhyme, OK. Go ahead. What does this have to do with Shakespeare?
TAAFFE: Well, it has to do with the fact that he was -- on direct -- he was brought out by Mr. Crump to deny or refute his own statement that he made to Serino and Singleton in the first week of the investigation, when he clearly was asked directly by the detectives, Is that your son, and he said unequivocably (sic) no. Whether it was under his breath, over his breath, no is no. It was a direct question.
And then for him, several weeks later, after he got into the accompaniment of Mr. Crump, he later refuted his own statement by stating that that was his son. So you know, I got -- the jury is still out on that one, too, Nancy.
GRACE: OK, let`s go out to Daryl Parks, attorney for Trayvon Martin`s family, also joining us from the courthouse.
Daryl, it`s my understanding that Tracy Martin -- this is Trayvon`s father -- said as he heard the screaming that he was shaking his head no, and at first said, I don`t know. What is his explanation?
DARYL PARKS, ATTORNEY FOR MARTIN FAMILY: Well, let`s be clear here, Nancy. Several things are going on. First of all, Tracy Martin had heard a series of 911 calls culminating with the one where he heard the gunshot of his son, the last final moments of his son`s life. The last thing he probably was worried about was who was screaming when he had just heard that shot. The shot was the focus, not the 911 call.
But let`s -- let`s also think about what Mr. Serino said today. He said something very powerful. He said that Tracy, under his breath -- and he interpreted it was a no. That was a little testimony that you just played in your clip.
So let`s be clear. So the way Frank Taaffe tried to see it is not how it happened in court. But also, most importantly, Serino also testified that Singleton -- he didn`t notice if she was there or not. So now we have some problems, right, because the clear path (ph) that they tried to lay out...
GRACE: OK...
PARKS: ... isn`t so.
GRACE: You know what? Actually, this is extremely important. I`ve had witnesses on the stand, and you know, you`ve got to be crystal clear.
So Matt Zarrell, let me put it in a nutshell. What exactly did the cops say Trayvon Martin`s father said? And the significance is this. If Trayvon Martin is the one screaming, Help, help, help, in that 911 call, that clearly means that he is most likely the victim, not the aggressor, all right? That`s why this is so important. Will self-defense stick?
So what about it, Matt Zarrell? What did they say Mr. Martin said?
ZARRELL: OK, I`m going to read you the notes. Serino was asked, What did you ask him? And Serino says, I believe my words were, Is that your son`s voice in the background? And what was his response? It was more of a verbal and nonverbal. He looked away and under his breath said no.
Then later on, Nancy, in cross-examination, Serino said, I heard it, and as I saw the movement of his mouth indicating no, indicating that he did not believe it was Trayvon Martin heard on the 911 tape.
GRACE: Jean Casarez, how did it play out in the courtroom?
CASAREZ: You know, good question, because you -- the jurors were writing notes. I mean, I thought the jurors would just be focused, watching and looking. They were writing notes, which is not bad for the prosecution. They were intently listening to what he had to say, but they didn`t care about his demeanor.
GRACE: They did not care about his demeanor. So after these two cops take the stand and basically give a different story, how does Mr. Martin explain it away? What does he say, Jean?
CASAREZ: He basically says, without saying it, that they were lying because he said that he couldn`t tell. That was his answer. So that is exactly opposite of what the two officers said.
GRACE: OK, you decide for yourself. Here is the 911 call in question.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911, do you need police, fire or medical?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe both. I`m not sure. There`s just someone screaming outside.
911 OPERATOR: OK, what`s the address that they`re near?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK. And is it a male or a female?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It sounds like a male.
911 OPERATOR: OK. And you don`t know why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know why. I think they`re yelling help, but I don`t know. Send someone quick, please.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Does he look hurt?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t see him. I don`t want to go out there, and I don`t know what`s going on, so...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re sending.
911 OPERATOR: Do you think he`s yelling help?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: All right, what is your...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s gunshots!
911 OPERATOR: You just heard gunshots?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: How many?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just one. Jeremy, get down! No, come here!
911 OPERATOR: Is he no longer yelling?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know. Jeremy, get in here now! Jeremy, get up here.
911 OPERATOR: All right, is he right outside?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, pretty much out the back, yes.
911 OPERATOR: Is he in front of it or behind that address?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s behind my house.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just stay away from the windows!
911 OPERATOR: I don`t hear him yelling anymore. Do you hear anything?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No I don`t because I`m hiding upstairs. There was a gunshot right outside our house.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERNIE DE LA RIONDA, PROSECUTOR: You`re not saying that Mr. Zimmerman is a law enforcement officer?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not at all.
DE LA RIONDA: OK. Unlike you, obviously. There`s a difference, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I agree.
DE LA RIONDA: Wouldn`t you agree?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One hundred percent.
DE LA RIONDA: A big difference...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I agree.
DE LA RIONDA: ... in terms of what police officers can do and what a citizen can do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The authority is much different.
DE LA RIONDA: Right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
MARTIN: Why (ph) did (ph) the defendant get out of his vehicle and face my son?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, CHARGED WITH MURDER: I just grabbed my firearm (INAUDIBLE)
DE LA RIONDA: (INAUDIBLE) you believe they have a gun, if they have some type of weapon?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If their hands are free.
DE LA RIONDA: Yes, you can`t see their hands.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, then, I would keep the firearm out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) his hands.
DE LA RIONDA: You would keep the firearm pointed at the person, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably.
ZIMMERMAN: (INAUDIBLE) shot him, holstered my firearm.
MARTIN: Very difficult to believe that Trayvon (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In addition to Trayvon Martin`s father on the stand, the defense brings up a string of witnesses to say it was Zimmerman. But then there`s a string of witnesses to say it was Trayvon Martin screaming for their (ph) life in the 911 call. This entire trial could turn on this testimony.
Take a listen. In the courtroom, please.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O`MARA: Had you had a chance to listen to that tape before today?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
O`MARA: And on how many occasions?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A few.
O`MARA: OK. Do you have -- do you know whose voice that is in the background screaming?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, definitely. It`s Georgie.
O`MARA: And how is it that you know that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just hear -- I hear it -- I hear him screaming.
O`MARA: Have you listened to that before today?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I have.
O`MARA: Any reason for me to play any more of it...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
O`MARA: ... or to go back over it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
O`MARA: Do you have an opinion as to whose voice that is in the background?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I do.
O`MARA: And whose voice is it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George Zimmerman`s voice.
O`MARA: And how do you know that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ve spent a lot of -- or we had occasion to get together many times. I know his voice. But also, when we were working on the political campaign, we were loud and waving signs and just kind of whooping it up. And so I know what his voice sounds like when he gets excited or loud.
O`MARA: Have you heard that tape before?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I have.
O`MARA: If you would, tell the jury how many times or when and the circumstances.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve heard it less than half a dozen times, and mostly on the TV news. The first time I heard it was on the news.
O`MARA: OK. And were you able -- first of all, do you have an opinion as to whose voice that is?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
O`MARA: And whose voice is that? And let me premise it this -- we know that we hear someone in the foreground, a person by the name of Ms. Lauer (ph), who was talking to the 911 operator. Could you hear the noise or the yelling in the background?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I could.
O`MARA: Can you identify whose voice that was, yelling in the background?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George`s.
O`MARA: And how do you know that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I recognized his voice. I heard him speak many times.
MARTIN: After listening -- after listening to the tape for maybe 20 times, I said it was -- I knew that it was Trayvon`s voice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are live and taking your calls. In the last hours, torpedo to the state. The judge allows in evidence that Trayvon Martin did have marijuana in his system at the time he died. What difference, if any, does that make?
Out to you, Taaffe.
TAAFFE: It makes a big deal difference.
GRACE: What difference does that make? Isn`t it true that when you smoke pot, you just want to lay on the sofa and eat?
TAAFFE: I don`t know. I never inhaled.
GRACE: I don`t know why you insist on cracking jokes during the coverage of this trial! I`m serious in my question.
TAAFFE: Listen, it`s important...
GRACE: If he had pot in his system, to me it means that he is less likely to pick a fight with someone.
TAAFFE: How do you know that? There are -- look, THC affects each individual differently. And that`s a fact. Not everybody sits on the couch and scoops up some Doritos for the rest of the night. There`s some people that have chronic abuse of it. They`ll go out and they can perpetrate crimes. And it`s important that was entered into evidence today.
And I`m going to go back to another thing. That was clearly George screaming because if you`re the inflicter of pain, what are you doing? You`re hitting somebody and going, Help, help, or are you on the bottom getting your head smashed, and you`re the one yelling for help? Use some common sense here, America!
GRACE: Out to you. I want to go to Dr. William Morrone, medical examiner, forensic pathologist and toxicologist. What can you tell me about THC, Dr. Morrone?
DR. MORRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, TOXICOLOGIST (via telephone): It`s been used for about 5,000 years. It`s being promoted in certain states under laws as medical marijuana. In a social setting, it may be something that we`ve recognized that could diminish insight, judgment or reduce inhibition, but it shouldn`t contribute to the gunshot fact (ph). And it doesn`t...
GRACE: Well, my question is about his behavior, Dr. Morrone. I mean, the common connotation, pot goes with lethargy, with the munchies, with wanting to eat, with being laid back, not with chasing somebody down, jumping out from behind bushes, beating them in the head until they`re pulpy (ph), and basically starting mortal combat. That`s not what you typically equate with smoking a doobie.
MORRONE: Most of everything you said stands on its own, and that`s accepted by the public.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Frank Taaffe, Dr. William Morrone is a forensic pathologist and toxicologist. Do you take issue with what he has just said about the use of marijuana? And I am against marijuana being legalized, all right? But I`m no idiot...
TAAFFE: So am I. We agree on something. Wow.
GRACE: Does it make you enter to moral combat.
TAAFFE: It could be the flip side. He might have been going through withdrawals as in withdrawals from that substance. And substance abuse withdrawal can lead to a high state of agitation --
GRACE: If he had it in his system what makes you think he was in withdrawal?
TAAFFE: Well, the testing was done, I believe it was done from the chest area, the chest blood. In chronic marijuana abusers, I`m sure your pundits can jump in on this, that even though he might not have just smoked in the last 48 or even 72 hours, but it`s significant because the amount of nano liter that was found in the chest blood is consistent with a chronic abuser of marijuana.
GRACE: Well if he`s a chronic abuser why do you say he`s in withdrawal?
TAAFFE: I`m just stating if he didn`t get to his weed --
GRACE: You`re just grasping a straw?
TAAFFE: No, I`m not. I`m being factual here. It is a fact.
GRACE: There was nothing to suggest he was in withdrawal. Nothing.
TAAFFE: Look. He was being surveiled by George and he didn`t like the fact that the creepy ass cracker was following him. So, he went and he dropped his weed off in the Bushes where the slim Jim was that the detectives found in the bushes and he went back to meet Mr. Zimmerman and mess him up. I would say something else but this is a family show.
GRACE: OK. Let me just tell just you when you use racial slurs to me, it`s like water off a duck`s back because all I care about is the evidence. So, if you`re trying to shock me by saying cracker, it doesn`t work. I want to talk about the facts. You can`t have it both ways, Taaffe. You can`t claim he was some crazy martial arts combat and then claim he was in withdrawal. You can`t have it both ways.
TAAFFE: OK. Let`s look at the facts and the testimony of witness number six. Trayvon was on top of George. If he`s delivering the blows in MMA style according to the witness, now, we`re staying with the facts, not conjectural here. OK. I`m sick of conjecture. Let`s stick with the facts here.
GRACE: You`re the one that just said you were conjecturing that he was in withdrawal. You were just conjecturing.
TAAFFE: OK. I`m giving a different view of what marijuana and specifically --
GRACE: That`s certainly putting perfume on the pig. Your are giving it a different view. You`re speculating.
TAAFFE: Oink. Oink.
GRACE: Taaffe, this. What difference does it make if he had had a joint?
TAAFFE: You know, that could be both ways. It could have set him off that he became paranoid. Paranoia is one to have side effects. I`m sure you would agree with me on that. A paranoia or high state of paranoia is part of the marijuana use.
GRACE: Is that true, Marrone? .
DOCTOR WILLIAM MARRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, TOXICOLOGIST (via phone): One of the top ten differentials. But it`s very minor. What`s important is insight and judgment. But it doesn`t change the gunshot fact.
GRACE: OK. Unleash the lawyers. Mickey Sherman, criminal defense lawyer, joining me out of New York, author of "how can you defend those people," also with me, Marla Chicotsky, defense attorney out of Miami.
All right, Mickey Sherman also with us Mickey and Marla is Daryl Parks, the attorney for Trayvon Martin`s family. And I want you to hear his take on this admittance of marijuana in Trayvon`s system being admitted in front of the jury.
What about it, Mr. Parks? What difference does it make?
DARYL PARKS, TRAYVON MARTIN FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, I agree with what the doctor said. Almost all of America understand that marijuana puts you in a more relaxed state. That really has nothing to do with the case. In fact, Nancy, I really believe that it has a prejudicial effect on the jury and (INAUDIBLE). And so, they`re going to hear about it any way. I think the state will do a good job of help making sure that the jury understands with the rest of America understands that it has a relaxing effect, thus, it shouldn`t played any role. But also it`s important that we understand that in the video we`ve seen Trayvon at the 711 and know that Trayvon was --
GRACE: Hold the video for me, Liz.
OK, repeat, Mr. Parks. I was calling for the video.
PARKS: OK. Several things. Number one we`ve seen active video of Trayvon at the 7-eleven during the time right before the shooting. Number two, we know he was on the phone talking to Rachel Jeantel the whole time as we all know. So, he was just, you know, doing not only his business but also importantly, even in George Zimmerman`s reenactment, he talks about the fact that Trayvon walked past him, didn`t threaten him. In fact he was scared because he reached into his hoodie as if he was getting something so that George Zimmerman wouldn`t come after him. But also, I think it is important that America understands that --
GRACE: Wait a minute, sir. Liz, back that up for me. Because there`s been a lot of conjecture to steal a phrase from Taaffe, God help me, but there`s been a lot of conjecture that Trayvon Martin is swaying back and forth like he`s on pot, like he`s high on something in the video.
But if you look at him when he is standing there in front of the register, he`s not swaying back and forth. First he digs in one pocket for money, then he sways over dig in the other pocket for money. He`s not swaying back and forth as far as I can see, Mr. Parks.
PARKS: I agree with you whole heartedly, Nancy. He was not swaying back and forth.
GRACE: Now you said something about lethargy, him being lethargic. He`s anything but lethargic. He is talking on the phone. He is buying something. He is carrying on multiple conversations. You also mentioned. Mr. Parks, that you believe this was introduced just to hurt the reputation of Trayvon Martin. Is that what you said?
PARKS: Yes. I think that they are trying to attack Trayvon`s credibility. But, let me also, Nancy, I did not use the term lethargic in describing him, so, maybe there was a misinterpretation.
GRACE: OK. Yes, you know what, you didn`t. It was used by someone else.
All right, Mr. Parks, you`re a lawyer and you know the criminal code as well as the rest of us. The reality that the victim I this case of the shooting victim had any trace amounts of alcohol or drugs, whatever they may be in his system is absolutely admissible. This is not coming in just to hurt his reputation. Under the law as I know the law, the judge had no alternative but to enter this in. It`s in the autopsy report, is it not, Mr. Parks?
PARKS: It is. And I agree. The law required her to do it. However, I think clearly what we`re seeing from the theme of the defense in this case is they have done everything in their power to try and trash his reputation and to trash his image. So, that`s --
GRACE: Hold on. Yes, I wouldn`t say that they`re concerned about it coming in.
Unleash the lawyers. Sherman and Chicotsky.
Sherman, the reality is the state cannot have it both ways. Letting this in, the fact that he had marijuana in his system, you know, some of these moms have adolescent sons or grown sons, I`m sure some of them have smoked pot before. Their anecdotal relationship with pot is probably going to be that pot does not jack you up, it calms you down, Mickey.
MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think the pathologist said it has different effects on different people. And think what is going on here
GRACE: Well, that`s true.
SHERMAN: Part of the defense of self-defense, you are allowed to put into play the violent or erratic behavior of the person who is the aggressor here. So, they`re putting in the marijuana just to show maybe it had an effect, maybe it didn`t have an effect.
GRACE: I agree with you, Mickey, that I mean, medically speaking Marrone is right, it can affect different people in different ways.
But , the reality is that most people`s anecdotal experience or knowledge of pot is it makes you want to go to sleep, all right? It does not jack you up to go commit a crime.
MARLA CHICOTSKY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think what`s really relevant in this case, Nancy, is that they needs to use the marijuana use for whether he was impaired, his judgment was impaired. It`s whether he was the aggressor, whether he made those decisions because he was under the influence of THC to be the aggressor and to make those bad decisions.
GRACE: Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE DEBRAH NELSON, SEMINOLE COUNTY: I think that`s what they`re trying to do through their expert that they`re going to come in and testify is to not only the levels in the toxicology report but what effect that would have. Of course, the state would have the opportunity to cross-examine the witness and to call any rebuttal witnesses if they choose to do so. So, I`m going to deny the motion in lamina and allow the testimony.
If there`s an objection during the course of the testimony I`ll rule upon the objection at that time. I don`t -- you know, I`m taking what the counsel is saying, the proffer would only be as to what his opinion is of the effects of these amounts of THC in a person`s blood, what effect that would have for whatever it`s worth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You wanted to believe it was George Zimmerman`s voice screaming for help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well it`s hard to tell because the person`s voice who was making the call made it difficult.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you want to believe it was Trayvon Martin?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: During his voice over a recording is something your tone is a little different and it sounds a little different over a phone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I shook my head and said I couldn`t tell but I never said no, that wasn`t my son`s voice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back everyone. Let`s go straight back into the courtroom. On the stand Trayvon Martin`s father.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you describe to the jury what was going through your mind when you were listening to that?
TRACY MARTIN, TRAYVON MARTIN`S FATHER: Basically what I was listening to, I was listening to my son`s last cry for help. I was listening to his life being taken. And I was coming trying to come to grips that Trayvon was here no more. It was just tough.
MARK O`MARA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Did you ever instruct your attorney Ben Crump, you didn`t have Ben Crump when you listened to the tape on the 27th to 28th, did you? .
MARTIN: No.
O`MARA: He was not your attorney at that point?
MARTIN: No, it wasn`t.
O`MARA: Later, did you instruct him to say that the police lied when they said that you --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Trayvon Martin`s father on the stand today saying he was forced to hear the last moments of his son`s life.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
O`MARA: -- lied about that?
MARTIN: I never instructed anyone to say anything.
O`MARA: Did you instruct your lawyer Ben Crump to say that the audio has been cleared up and now you can hear it better in.
MARTIN: No, I didn`t.
BERNIE DE LA RIONDA, STATE PROSECUTOR: Mr. Martin, even at this time is it hard for you to believe that your son is no longer living?
MARTIN: It`s very difficult to believe that Trayvon is not living.
DE LA RIONCA: OK.
MARTIN: As I said over and over, that was my best friend in life and to have him gone is tragic.
DE LA RIONCA: So they played the call then of the cries for help and then you actually hear a shot, is that correct??
MARTIN: Correct.
DE LA RIONCA: OK. Am I safe to assume that you still were at that time in denial in the sense of not wanting to believe your son was dead?
MARTIN: Correct.
DE LA RIONCA: OK. This was an emotional time for you. Would that be fair to say.
MARTIN: Very emotional.
DE LA RIONCA: And if you listened to the recording and as you stated described to the jury, you pulled your chair back in disbelief that you were actually listening to voices for help and also more importantly also a shot?
MARTIN: Correct.
DE LA RIONCA: You realized that that was the shot --
MARTIN: That killed my son, yes.
DE LA RIONCA: Did you really know what to do at that point?
MARTIN: No. I was -- my world was from that point until today, my world has just been turned upside down. I can`t remember if it was all of the 911 calls or was it just that last 911 call, but I do remember that I took control of the mouse or the clicker or whatever it was that they had and I was able to rewind that same tape over and over again.
DE LA RIONCA: You were playing that recording over and over. You were still dealing with this, his death?
MARTIN: Yes.
DE LA RIONCA: Now this was back, this was -- it was sometime in March. It was later. It wasn`t like days later. You were still having to deal with his death?
MARTIN: Correct.
DE LA RIONCA: OK. And you played it, you said. Did you actually write down one, two, three, four, five or do you estimate that you played it 20 times.
MARTIN: I`m estimating I played it maybe 20 times.
DE LA RIONCA: And you played it over and over. Why? Were you trying to deal with this? Why are you doing that?
MARTIN: Wasn`t as much as I was trying to deal with it. I was just trying to figure out the night of February 26th, 2012 why did the defendant get out f his vehicle and chase my son.
DE LA RIONCA: And you weren`t there when it happened, correct.
MARTIN: Correct.
DE LA RIONCA: And this recording, I guess, is one of the last things in terms of hearing the voice and the shot, you were trying to, as best you can, figure out what happened or why it happened?
MARTIN: Yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: That it was Trayvon`s voice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought it was George.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just, I hear him, I hear him screaming.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it just sounded like George.
DE LA RIONCA: You played that recording to Mr. Zimmerman.
MARTIN: Trayvon was hear no more.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe his words were, "that doesn`t even sound like me."
MARTIN: I was listening to my son`s last cry for help.
O`MARA: Do you know whose voice that is, in the background screaming?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, definitely, it`s Georgy.
MARTIN: I was listening to his life being taken.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are live and taking your calls.
Out to Shane in Georgia. Hi, dear, what`s your question?
SHANE, CALLER, GEORGIA: Basically, I just have a comment. You know, a lot of people, you know, it`s raining down really, really hard on Trayvon`s parents, you know. Unless you have a child that was murdered, you don`t know how they feel. And everybody deals with things in different ways. Everybody deal with grief in different ways. None of us deal with it the same way, you know. And this is not about his parents. His parents is not on trial. George Zimmerman is on trial.
GRACE: Well, I agree. Why would you think that someone thinks his parents are on trial.
SHANE: A lot of people, just, you know, when you read the blogs, when you hear tacky tappy (ph) making comments.
GRACE: Well, honey, nobody is saying that on this show. I can tell you that much. And nobody is suggesting that Trayvon Martin`s parents are on trial on this show. Out of the whole kit and caboodle, they are the ones suffering the most tonight. They certainly are not on trial.
To clinical psychologist, Dr. Seth Myers, I want to hear you weigh in on that.
DOCTOR SETH MYERS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Which, specifically?
GRACE: Her comment that many bloggers, seemingly, have put the parents on trial.
MYERS: Yes, well, I think that they could be responding to racial issues, and I think we`re not actually talking about the race issues that much. I mean, to me, the white elephant in the room here is the fact that you`ve got two young guys, one of them is dead, and whereas, he`s sitting here, trying to have sympathy for the one who`s just fine. It`s just, it`s confusing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We remember American hero army first lieutenant, Eric Yates, 26, Rineyville, Kentucky. Bronze star, purple heart, National defense service medal. Parents, David and Kathy. Grandfather, Herbert. Brother, Nathan.
Eric Yates, American hero.
Welcome back. Also in the courtroom today, testimony comes in that Zimmerman is obese and out of shape. He can`t even throw a punch. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADAM POLLOCK, ZIMMERMAN`S TRAINER: He improved his physicalness (ph) considerably, where he lost a lot of weight, because of the diet and the exercise. But regardless of body weight, there`s a matter of athleticism, and you know, you can lose all kinds of weight and still not have the athleticism to be ready to climb into the boxing ring with an opponent.
O`MARA: When he came to you, was he grossly obese?
POLLOCK: Absolutely.
O`MARA: And was that a main focus of his workout regimen?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Mickey Sherman and Marla Chicotsky.
Mickey Sherman, where are they headed with this?
SHERMAN: It`s like an extra bonus witness. He really doesn`t say a lot, but --
GRACE: It`s an extra bonus what?
SHERMAN: Yes, a witness. A bonus witness then you bring in the guy who runs the gym to say that you are not a great fighter. But what the heck. They took they shot. And the guy came off OK, a little like Anthony Weiner. He basically said that this guy could not fight.
GRACE: OK. What about it, Chicotsky?
CHICOTSKY: Well, I think this witness is very important for George Zimmerman`s defense saying that he`s not big, he fights a one to a 1.5 on a 10 scale, to show that even if, let`s say, George Zimmerman was the aggressor, that because he can`t fight and he was not in good shape, that Trayvon Martin could overcome him, could be on top of him.
GRACE: Well, I`m just going to go ahead and front that Zimmerman has obviously gained a lot of weight behind bars, and I wonder if it`s to fit hand in happened with what this witness is saying, that he`s obese and out of shape, and would have lost a hand-to-hand fight. That`s where they`re going with this.
Everybody, the courtroom day is over, but I want to take this moment to thank everyone, all of you, for all of your calls, your e-mails, your phone calls about my father, Matt Grace, who had a heart procedure today. Today, living proof that prayer does change things. Thank you.
Dr. Drew is up next, everyone. I will see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
