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Nancy Grace

The George Zimmerman Verdict

Aired July 15, 2013 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Florida versus George Zimmerman, verdict. We the jury find George Zimmerman not guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One word to describe George Zimmerman.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Murderer (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lucky.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our hearts, as always, go out to our victim`s family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family of the dead teenager, Trayvon Martin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have from the beginning just prayed for the truth to come out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We believe that we brought out the truth on behalf of Trayvon Martin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The tragedy is the loss of Trayvon Martin`s life in every respect. Regardless of what he was doing or immediately what led up to it, it`s tragic loss of life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trayvon Benjamin Martin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Big-time (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prey -- P-R-E-Y.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To everybody that put their hoodies up and to everybody who said, I am Trayvon, his family express their heartfelt gratitude.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This event itself also impacts George Zimmerman forever and ever. There`s no winners here. There`s no monsters here. That`s the tragedy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your bond will be released. Your GPS monitor will be cut off. You have no further business with the court.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SUNNY HOSTIN, GUEST HOST: Good evening. I`m Sunny Hostin, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Thank you so much for joining us.

A Florida jury hands down a not guilty verdict, acquitting George Zimmerman in the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, shocking the nation. The jury has spoken, but tensions still mount across the country over the verdict. The Justice Department confirms a separate federal investigation into Martin`s death is indeed, under way, but is there enough evidence to charge George Zimmerman under federal law with a hate crime?

Let`s go straight out to Jonathan Beaton, reporter with News 96.5, WDBO. Jonathan, there`s been a lot of developments since the not guilty verdict. Fill us in. What`s the latest?

JONATHAN BEATON, WDBO: Well, right now, Sunny, the Justice Department is investigating the George Zimmerman case, and they`re right now trying to decide whether or not to pursue federal charges against him.

Now, they could do this on the basis of George Zimmerman violating Trayvon Martin`s civil rights by -- possibly by a hate crime, by possibly pursuing him, racially profiling him.

And a lot of folks are asking, Is this double jeopardy? Well, it`s not because the state acquitted him, but the federal government can still file charges against George Zimmerman.

HOSTIN: Thank you so much for that update. Everyone is watching this case, was watching this case, certainly, are wondering whether or not the Justice Department will get involved.

And talking about this case, one of the star witnesses, star witnesses for the defense, many people believe, was Dr. DiMaio. Remember that forensic pathologist who literally wrote the book on gunshot wounds?

And believe it or not, I have Dr. DiMaio here with me tonight. Thank you so much for joining us, Doctor.

DR. VINCENT DIMAIO, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, DEFENSE WITNESS: It`s a pleasure.

HOSTIN: Well, I saw you in the courtroom. Certainly, you were, in my view, the star witness. Your credentials were unassailable. And I have to ask you, do you think this was a just verdict?

DIMAIO: Based upon the evidence presented in the case, yes. The prosecutors didn`t have a case, and all of the physical evidence was against them.

HOSTIN: Now, you say the prosecutors didn`t have a case. Does that mean you believe George Zimmerman?

DIMAIO: Let me put it this way. The physical evidence supports Mr. Zimmerman`s description of how the death came about.

HOSTIN: Did you meet with George Zimmerman?

DIMAIO: No. I`ve never actually ever said a word to him. I`ve just evaluated the objective scientific evidence wasn`t (ph) present in this case -- the photographs, the autopsy report, the firearms examiner report, the accounts and the possibilities of what could have happened.

And then based upon that, I gave my opinions, essentially that Mr. Zimmerman had suffered head trauma. He was on his back. Mr. Martin was over him, leaning over him, at which time Mr. Zimmerman shot him.

HOSTIN: Well, let me ask you this because you`re mentioning these severe injuries. Did you really believe that George Zimmerman`s injuries were severe?

DIMAIO: Let me put it this way. Would you agree for me to take you outside the studio and bang your head six or seven times against the concrete? No, I don`t think so.

HOSTIN: Well, that means that you believe, right? That means you believe George Zimmerman`s version of events?

DIMAIO: Well, OK. Here`s the possibility. He`s got impact injuries to the head. Now, the one to the -- the impact injury to the nose and the left forehead is consistent with a fist. The other injuries are consistent with concrete. They have the appearance of impact-type injuries with an unyielding surface.

In the area where this struggle occurred, you had two surfaces. You had water-logged grassy lawn and you had concrete. Impact of the head in the grassy earth would not produce the injuries seen. Therefore, the head had to have been impacted against the concrete.

HOSTIN: Well, let me ask you, Doctor...

DIMAIO: So that is -- yes?

HOSTIN: Let me ask you. You came to the conclusion that Trayvon Martin was on top of George Zimmerman when he was shot. And that was crucial. That was crucial to, I think, this case.

DIMAIO: Yes, ma`am.

HOSTIN: How did you come to that conclusion?

DIMAIO: It`s very simple. When you look at the clothing, in the front of the two sweatshirts, there is an irregular, ragged gunshot defect with soot around it. This was examined by the firearms examiner, and she concluded that this was a contact wound. That is, the muzzle of the gun was in contact with the sweatshirt at the time it was fired.

In looking at the pictures, I agree with her. We both agree on that. Then when you look at the photographs of the autopsy, there`s a gunshot wound of the left chest, approximately an inch to the left of the midline. This entrance wound lies in a roughly circular area of powder tattooing measuring two by two inches.

The tattooing was due to unburned grains of powder that emerged from the muzzle of the gun after the bullet. By the density and size of the pattern, it`s my opinion that the muzzle had to be from two to four inches away from the skin at the time of discharge.

So what do we know? We know that the muzzle of the gun was against the sweatshirt, and then the distance from the sweatshirt to the skin was two to four inches. If Mr. Martin was lying flat on his back, the sweatshirt would, by virtue of gravity, be against his chest. If instead he was kneeling over Mr. Zimmerman, then the sweatshirt would fall away from the shirt, especially if he had heavy...

HOSTIN: Couldn`t the sweatshirt have fallen away if somebody -- well, couldn`t the sweatshirt fall away if someone was pulling on his sweatshirt? Isn`t that possible, too?

DIMAIO: That`s a good question.

HOSTIN: Thank you.

DIMAIO: That`s a good question. Here`s the problem with that. Here`s the problem. If you -- and I actually discussed this with the district attorney when he took a deposition from me. Here`s the problem.

If you -- Mr. Zimmerman would have had to have grabbed the sweatshirt with his left arm and then pulled it away. Well, if you fire -- then put the gun against the shirt, say in this location, and then fire, when you let go of the shirt and then it falls back into its position, the hole will not be in the area of the gunshot wound but will be over towards the side.

So that means the sweatshirt was not pulled by a hand. It had to be falling straightaway from the chest...

HOSTIN: Well, could...

DIMAIO: ... which means that...

HOSTIN: I`m sorry. Go ahead, Doctor.

DIMAIO: OK. No, which means that Mr. Martin was over Mr. Zimmerman when the shot was fired.

HOSTIN: Now, the prosecution, though, asked you whether or not it was possible that Trayvon Martin could have been moving back. And I think I was in the courtroom at that time, and you said it was possible.

DIMAIO: Right. But he didn`t ask the whole question. What he said was, you know, Could he be moving back? The answer is yes. Could he have been moving even closer? Yes. Could he have been standing still? Yes.

All I can tell you is the relationship of the gun, the sweatshirt and the skin at the time of discharge. I cannot tell you whether he`s standing still, straightening up or falling back. There`s no way to say.

HOSTIN: So Doctor, are you saying here tonight that it is possible that Trayvon Martin could have been standing up when he was shot?

DIMAIO: No, he could not have been. We`re talking about -- no. We were talking about him leaning over the body. First of all, Mr. Martin...

HOSTIN: Didn`t you just say he could have been standing?

DIMAIO: No, I did not say that. I said straightening up.

HOSTIN: I see.

DIMAIO: He`s still down -- OK, he`s down on his knees. OK. He`s down on his knees. Now, at the time of discharge, we know it`s four inches away that the shirt is away. He could not have been standing up straight. If he`s standing up straight, the shirt is falling down, so he has to be leaning over.

Now, is he leaning closer at the time or backing a little or just standing still? You can`t say. But he was leaning over Mr. Zimmerman when he fired the shot.

HOSTIN: Now, let me ask you -- I mean, people -- there are many people that are unhappy with this verdict, stunned by this verdict, and in reviewing this case are blaming you, saying that you`re on the wrong side of history here. What do you say to those?

DIMAIO: I`m not on the side of history. I`m on the side of science. What I did was I took the objective evidence, the evidence of injuries as documented in the photographs, the evidence of the gunshot defect of the sweatshirt and the evidence of the gunshot wound on the chest, and I scientifically interpreted that.

That`s not a history, that`s not for, that`s not against. This is objective science. That`s what I`m supposed to be doing, not saying someone is guilty or someone is innocent. That call is to be made by the jury. And the jury made the call. But I was...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We the jury find George Zimmerman not guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am disappointed, as we are with the verdict, but we accept it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a fight that we had to fight. It was a little bit David and Goliath, but we won.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We would be intellectually dishonest if we didn`t acknowledge the racial undertones in this case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My fear is that now that they`ve connected that conversation to his conviction, that his acquittal is going to be seen as a negative for civil rights. Absolutely untrue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOSTIN: Welcome back. I`m Sunny Hostin, in for Nancy Grace this evening. And I`m thrilled to have Dr. Vincent DiMaio back with me this evening. He was the star witness for the defense in the case against George Zimmerman.

And Dr. DiMaio, we were just talking really about your opinion on this case. And one thing that struck me in the courtroom is you discussed how long you thought Trayvon Martin could have been alive after being shot. How long could he have been alive after being shot?

DIMAIO: All you can do is give an estimate. And in all medical probability, his survival was two or three minutes. And that`s because he had two holes in the right ventricle of the heart. And every time the heart beat, jets of blood would have come out both holes. He also had a wound in the lung. And so every time the heart beat, a jet of blood would have come out of the lung.

And his heart rate would been well over 100. So if you calculate about how much blood he could have lost every time the heart beat, within about two minutes, at least half of his blood supply would have gone over a short period. It would have thrown him into irreversible shock and cardiac arrest, and he would have died. It`s two to three minutes most likely.

HOSTIN: Well, now, Doctor, you know, you said that you found the evidence consistent with George Zimmerman`s version of events. George Zimmerman also said that after he shot Trayvon Martin, Trayvon Martin stood up and said, OK, you got me. And then apparently, he had to fall, and George Zimmerman spread his arms out.

Is it possible forensically, in your opinion, that Trayvon Martin could have stood up and said, You got me?

DIMAIO: Oh, yes. I think at the time of the trial, I gave an example -- and then I`ll explain in a second -- about a case I had of a man who was shot at point-blank range in the heart with a 12-gauge shotgun. And at autopsy, his heart was shredded. This man turned around and ran for 65, 75 feet.

Here`s what -- here`s what`s going on. Your consciousness is controlled by the amount of oxygen in the brain -- unless you have a brain injury, OK? Now, your brain has a reserve supply of oxygen, and that reserve supply is generally 10 to 15 seconds at a minimum, OK?

So if for some reason your heart stopped, you can remain conscious, talking and even moving about for about 10 to 15 seconds because of the reserve oxygen. The brain controls whether you move. The brain controls whether you talk. So even if his heart had stopped immediately, which it probably didn`t, he could have remained conscious for 10 to 15 seconds and completed a number of actions and spoke.

HOSTIN: Well, thank you so much, Dr. DiMaio. I hope you`ll stand by just in case we have any other questions about this very, very complex and important case. We also, of course, have many other guests tonight that will be discussing the Trayvon Martin case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Zimmerman, I have signed the judgment that confirms the jury`s verdict. Your bond will be released. Your GPS monitor will be cut off when you exit the courtroom over here, and you have no further business with the court. OK. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOSTIN: Thanks for staying with us. I`m Sunny Hostin, in tonight for Nancy Grace.

Well, everyone is talking about this trial, the trial against George Zimmerman, and you certainly can`t really talk about this trial without talking about Frank Taaffe. He`s been a supporter of George Zimmerman for a long time. He describes himself as Zimmerman`s good friend -- but perhaps did something that may have even compromised the verdict, inside information about what was going on in the jury room?

I want to show you what he says he knew about the deliberations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANK TAAFFE, FRIEND OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Well, I still feel very comfortable that, right now, it`s five to one for acquittal, and there`s one holdout right now.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Now, Taaffe, you apparently claim that you know...

TAAFFE: I said I concur with you!

GRACE: ... the breakdown of the vote in the jury room!

TAAFFE: I concur!

GRACE: You said you think it`s five to one -- five to one. How would you...

TAAFFE: Right now.

HOSTIN: ... come up with five to one?

TAAFFE: Five to one.

GRACE: Why?

TAAFFE: I firmly believe it`s five to one for acquittal, and there`s one holdout.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOSTIN: Well, many people, after hearing the acquittal, hearing the verdict, think that Frank Taaffe may have had some sort of inside information. Frank?

TAAFFE: Furthest things from the truth. Glad to see you in (ph) there (ph), Sunny. Just pure speculation. Pure speculation.

And prior to that -- let me back that up -- I also said that it was going to be like when Joe Namath went into the Super Bowl in 1969 and he proclaimed victory even before that game was played. It was hypothetical.

And I think there was even a guest on Nancy that night who -- she claimed it was going to be four to two right now. So I just upped the ante. That`s all it was.

HOSTIN: So it was just a guess.

TAAFFE: A pure guess.

HOSTIN: Well, what`s interesting, though, Frank, I was in Sanford. We saw each other in and out of the courtroom. You were kicked out of the courthouse and even kicked off of the courthouse grounds because of that prediction. Isn`t that right?

TAAFFE: I was asked to leave, that is correct, because of the fact that we didn`t want to incur any sort of mistrial. I misspoke. It was mere speculation. And we moved forward from that.

HOSTIN: Have you spoken to George Zimmerman since the verdict?

TAAFFE: I have spoke within Mr. O`Mara.

HOSTIN: And what did you talk about?

TAAFFE: That to have George give me a ring when he`s ready to.

HOSTIN: Thank you so much, Frank Taaffe. Please stay with us.

TAAFFE: I will.

HOSTIN: We have a lot more to talk about, especially what is next for George Zimmerman -- maybe a civil suit, maybe a civil rights suit? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trayvon Martin was profiled. There is no doubt that he was profiled to be a criminal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George Zimmerman was never guilty of anything except protecting himself in self-defense.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you can`t take a concealed weapon and encourage or incite a fistfight, which is what he did by stalking a teenager who didn`t know who he was, and then whip your gun out and shoot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forty-five seconds before the gunshot, when George was getting battered, I still believe that that decision was in Trayvon Martin`s hands more than my client`s.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOSTIN: I`m Sunny Hostin in for Nancy Grace tonight. Where do we go from here? Was this case really about race? Is it possible that George Zimmerman will face some sort of civil rights hate crime case? I want to ask Michael Christian, my friend, a reporter, what he is hearing about that possibility. Michael?

MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, FREELANCE REPORTER: The Justice Department, led my Attorney General Eric Holder, Sunny, has confirmed that the Justice Department is indeed investigating the Zimmerman case. It is going to be a high hurdle for them, however. There are many calls in cases like this, in cases where someone who is perhaps a minority has been killed, and the alleged perpetrator has been of the majority, or has been Caucasian, there have been many calls for civil rights trials to take place, civil rights violations to be charged, and as a rule the Justice Department does not take very many of them. It is a very, very high burden.

In this case, for example, they would have to prove that not only did George Zimmerman have reasonable grounds to know of Trayvon Martin`s race, but they would have to prove that he intentionally selected him as a victim because of that perception or knowledge. That is a very, very high standard.

HOSTIN: All right. Well, thank you, Michael. And of course we also heard from the attorney general of the United States, Eric Holder, today, and he talked about that possibility. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: We are also mindful of the pain felt by our nation surrounding the tragic, unnecessary shooting death of Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida, last year. And we are cognizant of the fact that the state trial reached its conclusion over the weekend.

The Justice Department shares your concern. I share your concern. And as we first acknowledged last spring, we have opened an investigation into this matter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOSTIN: There you have it. The attorney general confirming that the Justice Department has opened up an investigation into this matter. He called it an unnecessary death and explained that he was concerned about it.

Let`s bring in Connie Rice. You may know her sister, Condoleezza Rice. Connie is a civil rights attorney, and she is also the author of "Power Concedes Nothing." Thank you so much for joining me today, and I have to ask you, do you think there is potential for a civil rights case here?

CONNIE RICE, ATTORNEY: Absolutely. There`s potential for a civil rights case, but it`s going to be very, very difficult for the Justice Department to meet the standards, Sunny. And I do think that there`s a better chance of going -- of the family filing for a wrongful death action here. I do think that`s more viable. But I think that for the Justice Department, because the FBI has memos in the file that have said that they don`t think that race was a viable basis for having the majority of the action take place, that it might be difficult for them to make that very, very high burden, for the DOJ to do that.

HOSTIN: But isn`t it true, though, that race seems to be intricately really involved here? We know that George Zimmerman had made many, many phone calls to the police department only identifying young black men. He got out of his car. He described Trayvon Martin as black. He also said things like f-ing punks and these a-holes always get away. There have been reports of George Zimmerman being pretty aggressive with some of the African-American residents at the retreat at Twin Lakes. Would that not be enough?

RICE: That can start to build your basis of proof, Sunny, but it may not be enough to show that it was primarily motivated by race.

It is clear that race played a huge role in this, that Zimmerman had a real bug in his bonnet about black males. And it`s very clear that race played a predominant role. Whether that`s enough for this standard is unclear, and here is a real problem. You have FBI agents who have been looking into this issue for quite a while, Sunny. And they`ve already got memos in the file that say they don`t, they the FBI agents, don`t think that race was the primary motivator for this crime. And once you`ve done that and you have an acquittal, it becomes a much harder bar to meet. I don`t know if that makes any sense, but you are right, you are absolutely right that race is infused from top to bottom. But whether it`s pointed enough and pervasive enough to make this bar after the FBI has already got memos in the file saying they don`t think race was the primary motivator, I think it would be a pretty hard thing to show.

HOSTIN: Very true. And not only are many people saying that race was involved top to bottom, many people are saying perhaps that Trayvon Martin was the one that was racist. Phil in Oregon, I think I have Phil in Oregon on the phone. Have some thoughts? Do we have Phil? Do we have Phil in Oregon? Maybe not. He`s not responding.

Well, you know, Ms. Rice, you mentioned that perhaps the stronger, the stronger option here is a civil suit by the parents. Let`s bring in Jasmine Rand. She`s been the attorney for Trayvon Martin`s parents. Jasmine, are you here?

JASMINE RAND, ATTORNEY FOR MARTIN`S PARENTS: Yes, I`m here.

HOSTIN: Thanks, Jasmine. First, let me ask you, how are Trayvon Martin`s parents dealing with this verdict?

RAND: I think it was a very heartbreaking decision for the parents to have to deal with, and certainly we were not pleased with the outcome, although we do accept the decision of the jury. Right now, we`re really focused on making sure that this does not happen to another individual like Trayvon Martin. So although they`re heartbroken, I think we are hopeful and inspired at this moment by the outpour of love and support that we`ve gotten from all over the nation and the world, Sunny. We`ve literally gotten -- I got calls yesterday from Morocco and London and Jamaica and Colombia, just telling us how much they love us, how they`re praying for Tracy and Sybrina. And I know that we talk a lot about standing on the shoulders of giants, I think right now we`re standing on the shoulders of the people. The people are literally holding us up with their support. And I think we have a tremendous responsibility to make sure that doesn`t happen to another child.

HOSTIN: The world certainly is watching. But, let me ask you this. Will Trayvon Martin`s parents file a civil suit, perhaps a wrongful death suit against George Zimmerman?

RAND: Sunny, you know, I think that we will certainly contemplate that and we will discuss it with the parents. But right now our position is that it`s just poor timing to talk about the civil lawsuit when you have much more prominent issue at stake, and I think the bigger discussion is the legal landscape, as I`ve said, to ensure this doesn`t happen to another child.

HOSTIN: And I know Sybrina and Tracy also tweeted about their emotions, their feelings after this. I think we have those tweets. Sybrina Fulton tweeted after learning of the acquittal of George Zimmerman, "Lord, during my darkest hour, I lean on you. You are all that I have. At the end of the day, God is in control. Thank you all for your prayers and support. I will love you forever, Trayvon. In the name of Jesus." And Tracy Martin, Trayvon Martin`s father said, "even though I am broken- hearted, my faith is unshattered. I will always love my baby Tray." Words from the parents dealing clearly still with the loss of their son and the acquittal of the man who killed him. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DE LA RIONDA: I want to thank you all for respecting our privacy. I am disappointed, as we are with the verdict, but we accept it. We live in a great country that has a great criminal justice system. It is not perfect, but it`s the best in the world, and we respect the jury`s verdict.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I also would like to thank you for your time and attention that you`ve given this case. Both sides are deserving of your attention. We have, from the beginning, just prayed for the truth to come out and for peace to be the result, and that continues to be our prayers, and we believe they have been answered.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOSTIN: I`m Sunny Hostin in for Nancy Grace. And we`ve been talking about the trial, the trial against George Zimmerman. But we need to talk also about Trayvon Martin, the victim in this case, and talk about Trayvon Martin`s family, how they are dealing with this. Thankfully, we have Jerome Horton here with us tonight. He was Trayvon Martin`s football coach. Thank you so much for joining me.

JEROME HORTON, FOOTBALL COACH: Thank you for having me.

HOSTIN: And I know that you`re a friend of Tracy Martin, a close friend. Can you tell us how he`s doing?

HORTON: He`s devastated. He hurts deeply. He feels like Trayvon is looking down on him and he feels like he let Trayvon down. And basically what I`ve been telling him is, you know, you fought a good fight. This has been going on a year and a half, and he`s done everything that he could to get justice, to fight for justice for Trayvon.

HOSTIN: And he was in the courtroom every single day to support his son. He still feels like he let him down?

HORTON: Yes, he still feels like he let him down, because a lot of the people don`t know, this seemed like it wasn`t a trial for George Zimmerman. This seemed like it was a trial of Trayvon`s character. Because everything you hear really wasn`t about what George Zimmerman did. It was about what Zimmerman portrayed Trayvon as, that led up to what he did.

HOSTIN: You knew Trayvon Martin well. Your son was good friends with Trayvon Martin, right?

HORTON: Yes, they were best friends.

HOSTIN: Can you tell us a little bit about the Trayvon Martin that you knew? Because as you mentioned, many people are -- many people are describing him on social media, on television as a thug. Is that the Trayvon Martin you knew?

HORTON: No, and that`s the furthest thing from the truth. He was a great kid. This is a kid that -- who worked at a concession stand, volunteered. And I watched these kids come up to the concession stand that did not have money to buy something, and I`ve watched him give them candy, give them drinks, simply because he felt bad. This is a kid with a huge heart. And he was no way close to being a thug as everyone has been portraying him as.

HOSTIN: And you even say you feel the trial was rigged. Why do you feel that way?

HORTON: I feel that way. I think it came down to who had the better -- I think it was all basically smoke and mirrors. And what it is, is because I don`t see how six women cannot see what six million people see. And I say that because the defense attorneys, I think they did a better job than the prosecutors, hands down, and I think that`s what it came down to.

HOSTIN: Really?

HORTON: Yes.

HOSTIN: You think that the state just didn`t do a good enough job?

HORTON: That`s my honest opinion. I think the state didn`t do a good enough job. I watched it every single day, and that`s my honest opinion. I`ve watched the two defense attorneys tear down everything that the state did. I watched the state not even have any rebuttals to tear down what they`re saying. I mean, granted, they did the story with George Zimmerman, they tried to go into how he did all these interviews and how the stories changed, but they never really went into it. They pretty much just let it go.

HOSTIN: Now, you say that your son was best friends with Trayvon Martin. How is he handling this? How is your son handling this?

HORTON: He basically don`t like to talk about it, because it hurts. He misses him. He walks around with a Trayvon Martin postcard around his neck. That was his friend. They grew up together, they played football together. That was his -- that`s who he knows. They hung out together. He talked to him the day before he got killed.

HOSTIN: And what did they talk about?

HORTON: They talked about when Trayvon came home, about them being able to hang out that same week, that weekend, because the following day was my son`s birthday.

HOSTIN: The day after Trayvon Martin was killed was your son`s birthday?

HORTON: Was my son`s birthday.

HOSTIN: Is there any good that you think that can come out of this, any lesson that you or your son will take with you?

HORTON: I mean, I think a lot was made on him wearing the hoodie, and I think a lot of the people are judged like that. I tell my son the same thing. You are perceived as what you look like. It`s wrong. That`s the society that we live in. I mean, but how many African-Americans that we know that`s went to jail, went to prison for a crime they didn`t commit, and years later they got off for a crime that they didn`t commit, that they were prosecuted on. That`s just the justice system that we have. It`s not fair, and it doesn`t work. And until it changes, things like this, with Zimmerman shooting an unarmed teenager, it`s going to continue to happen.

HOSTIN: And certainly this is a discussion that we need to continue having. Stay right with us for more.

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HOSTIN: I`m Sunny Hostin in for Nancy Grace. And we`ve been talking about the acquittal of George Zimmerman and the case against George Zimmerman. And there has been so much anger in the black community. Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton, Trayvon Martin`s parents have described their reaction as one of just being stunned. And the question now is, what do we do? What do we do about the anger? There have been protests and demonstrations all around the country. One in New York just last night, with thousands of people chanting about justice and what they feel is the lack thereof. But what do we do? What do we do going forward? I have with me thankfully a psychologist, Dr. Greg Cason, here, to go over what do we do in our communities? What do we tell our children? What do we do?

DR. GREG CASON, PSYCHOLOGIST: Hey, Sunny. So I have to say that the protests and what the community is doing by having vigils and protests and standing up and saying this is wrong is one of the very healthiest things the community can do, to rally together and to be in this together, and to say we`re not going to stand up for this anymore.

But the other problem is sometimes those protests can lead to violence, and then it goes absolutely the other way. And then that is turning to the same tactic that George Zimmerman used with Trayvon Martin.

So although protests are the healthiest thing to do, it`s not healthy when they turn violent.

But as to telling children, that is a very good question, because with children, you want to be truthful and age-appropriate in the way you talk to them about this verdict and about our justice system and about racial dynamics here in America. No child, no matter what their race, is too young to hear about this kind of thing. Because this is the world they`re living in. And they need to know that these kinds of problems exist.

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HOSTIN: Tonight, we remember American hero Marine Sergeant Joseph Bovia (ph), 24, from Kenner (ph), Louisiana. He was awarded the Purple Heart and two Navy and Marine Corps commendation medals. The charity has been created in his honor, to provide clothing, food and shelter to needy children. He leaves behind parents Herbert and Theresa and his brother, Matthew. Joseph Bovia (ph), a true American hero.

Welcome back and thank you so much for joining us. And I want to go to the lawyers as we end our show tonight. Pamela Hayes and Penny Douglas Furr, thank you so much for joining me. And I have to ask you, what did you think of the verdict? Penny?

FURR: I think that they had the accurate verdict. I think the 6 million people who are out protesting, they did not hear the evidence, and they did not hear the law that needed to be applied to the evidence. I think the six jurors did the right thing by the evidence that was presented. And I think that it could have gone in a different way if it was different evidence, but unfortunately, the state just did not have a lot to work with in this case.

HOSTIN: Pamela, your thoughts?

HAYES: I disagree with the verdict. I think that the prosecution was outgunned. I think it was the same situation that we witnessed 15 years ago with the O.J. case. And they just was outgunned, starting with having six females on a jury. And as much as it pains me to have to say this, it was a problem from the start, and they never came back. They didn`t even present an adequate rebuttal case. And I just can`t understand what was going on in their minds that they would let this happen.

HOSTIN: Two very different opinions from lawyers. We`re getting that all over the country. What do you think happens next? Civil rights suit? Is that a possibility?

HAYES: Yes, I think it`s a possibility. I thought they could have won with the evidence that they had. Had they had a jury expert, had they had people from -- to tell them what type of community they were dealing with. The prosecutors were from Duval County in Jacksonville. They were in Seminole County, which is in the middle of the state. So I`m hopeful that maybe they will get something in terms of a civil lawsuit or a federal civil rights lawsuit.

HOSTIN: Penny, I don`t have much time, but one word, is it going to happen? Civil rights, is it going to happen?

FURR: No, just because they were of different races doesn`t make it about race. There was nothing in this case, no evidence that Mr. Zimmerman was racist. I didn`t see one piece of evidence.

HOSTIN: Thank you so much, both of you, for coming with me. This is a case I think we`re going to be talking about for a very long time. "Dr. Drew" is coming up next.

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