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Nancy Grace
Possible Plea Deal for Ariel Castro
Aired July 25, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANDA BERRY, CLEVELAND KIDNAPPING VICTIM: Help me! I`m Amanda Berry. I`ve been kidnapped, and I`ve been missing for 10 years. And I`m here. I`m free now!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kidnapping, rape and 10 years of torture Castro`s accused of carrying out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus and Michelle Knight were held in his house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`ve been through hell and back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The details horrifying, the revelation that the women were bound, that chains and ropes were in the home.
BERRY: I`m Amanda Berry! I`ve been on the news for the last 10 years. I need them now, before he gets back. His name is Ariel Castro.
911 OPERATOR: What`s he wearing?
BERRY: I don`t know because he`s not here right now! That`s how I got away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 52-year-old former school bus driver...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you have to say to those women?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... the monster that`s horrified America.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Castro pleaded not guilty to nearly 1,000 charges, including kidnapping, rape and murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... pregnant at least five times, but was starved and punched until she eventually miscarried.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is a possible plea deal in the works. That deal would probably keep Castro off death row.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez, in for Nancy Grace. Thank you so much for joining us.
Tonight, three women kidnapped, held captive for a decade right under the nose of neighbors in a quiet Cleveland suburb. Their home was a modest home, just like all the others in the neighborhood. But inside, it was a modern-day dungeon where all three young women are chained, sexually assaulted, beaten, one of them even giving birth.
After a daring rescue and these women surviving unbelievable horrors, is a plea deal in the works? Will Ariel Castro just coast on into prison, not having to face his accusers or a jury? In three women terrorized for a decade, a 977-count indictment, some of them the most heinous crimes you have ever heard of.
Why should Ariel Castro get a deal avoiding the death penalty? I want to go straight out to Brett Larson (ph), investigative reporter. You know, Brett, the story that this case frames is amazing. It all starts in 2002. Start from the beginning.
BRETT LARSON, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: You know, it starts way back then, in 2002, when he one by one kidnapped these three girls, some of them pre-teens when they were kidnapped, just by offering them a ride in his van.
And what they were in store for, if we can paint a picture, it is like a scene out of a horror movie that you almost couldn`t believe would ever be a reality! As you said right off the top, it was like a dungeon. These women were chained up. They were tortured and raped.
One of them got pregnant multiple times, but was starved and beaten so she would miscarry. Another one actually gave birth to a girl who is now 6 years old. And after giving birth, one of the women who helped him, he beat her up after the birthing process.
CASAREZ: Brett, I want to interject right here. We are seeing these three young brave women. They were not all kidnapped together, no. Michelle Knight was kidnapped in 2002, when she was 21 years old. And then it wasn`t until the next year, in 2003, that Amanda Berry was kidnapped, and then in 2004, Gina DeJesus. And they were all kidnapped from the very same street.
But finally, 10 years later, a decade later, one of them, Amanda Berry, had the opportunity and the courage to make a 911 call to escape. Listen to this call.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Cleveland 911. Do you need...
BERRY: Help me! I`m Amanda Berry!
911 OPERATOR: Do you need police, fire or ambulance?
BERRY: I need police!
911 OPERATOR: OK. And what`s going on there?
BERRY: I`ve been kidnapped, and I`ve been missing for 10 years, and I`m here! I`m free now!
911 OPERATOR: OK. And what`s your address?
BERRY: 2207 Seymour Avenue.
911 OPERATOR: 2007 Seymour? Looks like you`re calling from 2210.
(CROSSTALK)
BERRY: I can`t hear you.
911 OPERATOR: It looks like you`re calling me from 2210 Seymour.
BERRY: (INAUDIBLE) I`m using the phone.
911 OPERATOR: Stay there with those neighbors and talk to the police when they get there.
BERRY: OK.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Talk to the police when they get there.
BERRY: OK. Hello?
911 OPERATOR: Yes, talk to the police when they get there.
BERRY: OK (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: We`ll going to send as soon as we get a car open.
BERRY: No, I need them now before he gets back!
911 OPERATOR: All right. We`re sending them, OK?
BERRY: OK. (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Who`s the guy you`re -- who is the guy who went out?
BERRY: His name is Ariel Castro.
911 OPERATOR: All right. How old is he?
BERRY: He`s, like, 52.
911 OPERATOR: All right. And...
BERRY: I`m Amanda Berry. I`ve been on the news for the last 10 years.
911 OPERATOR: OK. I got that, dear. I already...
BERRY: With Gina (ph).
911 OPERATOR: And you said -- what was his name again?
BERRY: Ariel Castro.
911 OPERATOR: And is he white, black or Hispanic?
BERRY: He`s Hispanic.
911 OPERATOR: What`s he wearing?
BERRY: I don`t know because he`s not here right now! That`s how I got away.
911 OPERATOR: When he left, what was he wearing?
BERRY: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: The police are on the way. Talk to them when they get there.
BERRY: I need -- OK.
911 OPERATOR: I told you they`re on the way. Talk to them when they get there, OK?
BERRY: All right. OK.
911 OPERATOR: Thank you.
BERRY: `Bye.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Now, this indictment has 977 counts, including 512 counts of kidnapping, 446 counts of rape, and 2 counts of aggravated murder due to the pregnancy of one of the three women.
Let`s go to the lawyers, Susan Moss, family law attorney joining us from New York, Mike Gottlieb joining us from Miami, and Dwane Cates tonight from Los Angeles.
Susan Moss, what is so good about Ariel Castro that he should just coast on into prison, not have to face a jury, not have to face his accusers? It just seems too easy!
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: The only deal should be what`s for his last meal! These victims, these survivors deserve their day in court to look at the man who terrorized them for 10 years and to explain to the world exactly what happened to them! They believe and they deserve their opportunity to say to the jury, or to say to the judge, You`ve got to make this guy pay to the fullest extent of the law, and in this case, with his life!
CASAREZ: And Mike, why shouldn`t he have to listen to every single thing he did to these women? Do you realize when one would try to escape, he would take a vacuum cleaner cord and put it around their neck so they couldn`t get out?
MIKE GOTTLIEB, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, there`s no doubt that the allegations against him are heinous. But I think you have to take into consideration -- and we`ve all seen the YouTube videos of the victims where they`re saying they want their anonymity.
You have to imagine that there`s a component to this case where the prosecution`s spoken to the victims, and perhaps the victims have said, Look, we prefer a life sentence over a death sentence if it means we`re not going to be exposed, we`re not going to be on TV. We don`t have to tell our story to the world. We don`t have to go through all the gruesome details and things that happened to us. And we prefer life in prison. We`d rather see him suffer each and every day for the rest of his life.
That to some people is worse than the death penalty.
CASAREZ: And you know, we are going to talk with a very close family friend in just a minute to one of these girls. You talked about that YouTube video. Let`s look at the courage of these young women who did come forward after gaining their freedom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERRY: First and foremost, I want everyone to know how happy I am to be home with my family and my friends. It`s been unbelievable.
I want to thank everyone who has helped me and my family through this entire ordeal, everyone who has been there to support us. It`s been a blessing to have such an outpouring of love and kindness. I`m getting stronger each day, and having my privacy has helped immensely. I ask that everyone continues to respect our privacy and give us time to have a normal life.
MICHELLE KNIGHT: Thank you, everyone, for your love, support and donations which helped me build a brand-new life. I just want everyone to know I`m doing just fine. I may have been through hell and back, but I am strong enough to walk through hell with a smile on my face and with my head held high and my feet firmly on the ground.
Walking hand-in-hand with my best friend, I will not let the situation define who I am. I will define the situation. I don`t want to be consumed by hatred. With that being said, we need to take a leap of faith and know that God is in control.
GINA DEJESUS, CLEVELAND KIDNAPPING VICTIM: I would say thank you for the support.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`d like to thank everybody who donated to the Courage Fund for these girls, and all the (INAUDIBLE) everybody that donated. I also would like to thank the families for having so much passions and faith and the strength to go along with us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: And you have been watching video from YouTube of the three courageous survivors in this case. Dwane Cates, back to you out in Los Angeles. You know, we have gotten word that a plea deal may be in the works, almost to completion so Ariel Castro does not have to go to trial. He`s bargaining away the death penalty. That`s what he`s doing, Dwane Cates. He doesn`t want to die, so he`s going to cap (ph) a plea deal.
DWANE CATES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jean, the death penalty is not even on the table right now. The prosecution hasn`t filed a notice of death penalty. They`re not asking for the death penalty.
CASAREZ: And that is because, Dwane Cates...
CATES: So they`ve not -- they`ve not even started down...
CASAREZ: ... the defense...
CATES: They`ve not even started down that road.
CASAREZ: The defense went to the prosecution early on and asked them not to. This is not something that just came up. It`s been working for a while. That`s the reason they haven`t. But that`s not fair! That`s not fair. And I learned in law school, you don`t bargain away the death penalty. It`s too sacred of a thing to bargain away. But people do it every day.
CATES: They do it all the time, Jean. And I`ll tell you what. Death penalty is a stretch in this case. Proving those murders -- that they were aggravated murders is going to be extremely difficult. There`s no real evidence left that they were there. They would have a tough time getting the death penalty anyway.
Castro is going to prison for the rest of his life, no matter what happens in this case. And I don`t think they should drag the victims through a trial, make them relive this entire thing and have this blown up.
I mean, you know it`s going to be big. You know it`s going to be covered by everybody. And it`s going to be very public. And this is the right outcome on this case.
CASAREZ: But this is Cleveland`s trial. This is their community. Their community lived with three missing girls for a decade. They turned out alive. Doesn`t the community deserve something?
I want to go to Dr. Bill Manion, New Jersey medical examiner. You know, Dwane Cates brought up something. There are two counts of aggravated murder. One of these three girls was pregnant. The allegation is that she was punched and that she also suffered other types of physical abuse to lose that child. Is there any forensic way at this point to determine that she had been pregnant?
DR. BILL MANION, NEW JERSEY MEDICAL EXAMINER (via telephone): Well, not really, only if the fetus was buried in the back yard somewhere. If they could discover the decomposed fetus, they might be able to do some DNA testing to show that his DNA contributed. But otherwise, there`s no forensic evidence that can be done now. An OB-GYN exam may show that she had a child, that her cervix has evidence of delivering a stillborn or an infant. But we need -- we would need DNA evidence from the fetus to really show it was his child and that it really existed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Cleveland 911. Do you need...
BERRY: Help me! I`m Amanda Berry!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her screaming. I`m eating my McDonald`s. I come outside, and I see this girl going nuts, trying to get out of a house.
BERRY: I`ve been kidnapped, and I`ve been missing for 10 years. And I`m here! I`m free now!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to thank everyone who has helped me and my family through this entire ordeal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She comes out with a little girl, and she says Call 911. My name is Amanda Berry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Castro, have you had a chance to meet with your attorney? I can`t hear you.
ARIEL CASTRO, CHARGED WITH KIDNAPPING: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is a possible plea deal in the works.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I barbecued with the dude! We eat ribs and what not and listen to salsa music. Not a clue that that girl was in that house, or anybody else was in there against their will.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: All right, we are getting some information tonight that a source close to the courts in Cleveland, Ohio, is saying that prosecutors have, in fact, offered a plea deal to the defense, to Ariel Castro, in which he would serve life in prison and not be subject to the death penalty.
The defense has not signed any agreement. They have not agreed to this at this point. But the deal could be announced as soon as a pre-trial hearing tomorrow, Friday morning. So that is the latest on this. The question is, is this fair? Is this justice, or is this just a little bit too easy?
All right, I want to go right now to a very, very special guest. This is a friend of victim Gina DeJesus`s family. This is one of three young women who was so courageous and survived a decade ordeal at the hands of Ariel Castro. Jannette Gomez, thank you for joining us on tonight, on the eve of a day tomorrow that could be very, very important to your good friend, Gina.
JANNETTE GOMEZ, FRIEND OF GINA DEJESUS FAMILY (via telephone): Good evening.
CASAREZ: First of all, I want to know how Gina is doing, and I want to know what everyone is doing to help her get through all of this now that she is -- has her normal life back.
GOMEZ: Yes. Gina is doing very well. I just met with her. I was in her house about three days ago. And she`s doing real well. She has friends over, and everybody still in the community coping with her and helping her out for a better recovery. But she is doing very well.
CASAREZ: Well, she is beautiful. Does she stay inside a lot of the time? Does she go out? I mean, what is her day-to-day life like?
GOMEZ: Well, she goes out, takes out her dog. She has friends come over and spend time with her. But she`s in and out, and as a young girl doing what a young girl needs to be doing outside.
CASAREZ: You know, Gina DeJesus, when she was abducted, and I`m sure you know this, Jannette, she was just walking home from high school.
GOMEZ: Yes.
CASAREZ: That`s all she was doing. I mean, a very innocent, innocent thing. Have you talked to her at all? Does she want a trial to go forward, or would she be comfortable with a plea deal?
GOMEZ: No, we haven`t talked of any of that situation. I don`t think it would be fair for her to even show up in court. I don`t think she wants to face him at all.
CASAREZ: So you don`t think she would want to face Ariel Castro at all.
GOMEZ: I -- in my personal opinion, I don`t think she would.
CASAREZ: And Ohio does have a victims` rights act.
And let`s go to right now Tom Moore, who is coming to us from Cleveland, Ohio. He`s a news anchor reporter for WTAM. Thank you for joining us, Tom. Ohio does have a victims rights statute that says that prosecutors must consult with victims before any type of a plea deal is signed, sealed or then agreed to by the judge. What is the latest there in Cleveland?
TOM MOORE, WTAM (via telephone): Well, as far as consulting with the three women, you know, I can`t say that because the prosecutor`s office has been very tight-lipped about everything on this.
But you know, Gina and Michelle and Amanda have made it quite clear through the statements issued through a PR firm here in town and also on that video that came out a few weeks ago that they want to get this behind them. They really want to get this behind them, move on with their lives. That`s the main thing to them. I think, especially, you know, you saw it in that video when Michelle Knight said so.
Now, as far as -- you know, as far as, like I say, what has happened in the last 24 hours with talking to them, that is something the prosecutor`s office is being very tight-lipped on. I talked to them and they said to me in a one-sentence statement e-mailed to me that, We`re going to let what happened in court yesterday be our statement.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you for the support.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) able to sit there and hug her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to thank everyone who has helped me and my family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, everyone, for your love, support and donations.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus and Michelle Knight all disappeared in separate cases. Their ordeal came to an end after a neighbor heard screams for help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she says, Help me get out. I`ve been in here a long time.
BERRY: Ariel Castro.
911 OPERATOR: What`s he wearing?
BERRY: I don`t know because he`s not here right now! That`s how I got away.
911 OPERATOR: When you left, what was he wearing?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez, in for Nancy Grace. We are learning tonight that a plea deal may be solidified as early as tomorrow in regard to Ariel Castro. Almost 1,000 counts he faces. That could be (ph) and the result of life in prison, but he is able to avoid the death penalty.
We are taking your calls. Is that fair? Is that right? Or is it just too easy for this man to put three young women through absolute hell for a decade?
Let`s go out to Jason in Canada. Hi, Jason.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Jean. How are you?
CASAREZ: Jason, are you there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m right here.
CASAREZ: Hi, Jason.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you tonight?
CASAREZ: I`m fine. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is, if this guy doesn`t get the death penalty, what is the maximum number of years he would get if sent to prison?
CASAREZ: Well, that`s a good question, when you have almost 1,000 counts. Let`s go out to Susan Moss joining us, attorney out of New York. How many life terms do you get when you have 977 counts?
MOSS: Well, he certainly can get life. He can actually certainly get two life counts because there are two aggravated murder charges. I got to tell you, when you have 977 counts, that prison time better mount!
You know, when you look at this case, we have an obligation to the community, and our obligation is to make sure somebody who was this heinous for 10 years of day-to-day crimes gets the full maximum penalty under the law! I think it is the wrong message to send out to society not to go for the death penalty for this guy and tell every future Ariel that this is what`s going to happen to him!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His brothers call him a monster.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want him to suffer in that jail to the last extent. I don`t care if they even feed him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel the same way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s accused of raping and kidnapping three women for over a decade.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The decade-long nightmare ended when Amanda Berry made an emotional 911 call to police.
911 OPERATOR: Do you need police, fire or ambulance?
BERRY: I need police! (INAUDIBLE) I`m at the neighbors, using the phone.
911 OPERATOR: OK, stay there with those neighbors. Talk to the police when they get there.
BERRY: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I opened the door, and we can`t get in that way. We kicked the bottom, and she comes out with a little girl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her daughter, born in captivity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The real hero here is Amanda.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m getting stronger each day. I ask that everyone continues to respect our privacy and give us time to have a normal life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez in for Nancy Grace. We are learning tonight that a plea deal may be announced as early as tomorrow for Ariel Castro. The man who put three young women through hell for 10 years, over a decade, several of them. And now he may be able to waive the death penalty, go straight to prison and live for the rest of his life, not having to face his accusers, a jury, or a court.
I want to go out to Tom Moore, who is joining us from Cleveland, Ohio, tonight. He is a news anchor and reporter at WTAM.
Start from the beginning. What do we know at this point that these three young women went through and survived through for 10 years?
TOM MOORE, NEWS ANCHOR AND REPORTER, WTAM: We start at the very beginning, we`re talking about -- we`re talking about three young women who separately -- that`s the whole thing. None of them ever knew each other. They were just minding their own business, either walking down the street, needing a ride or something like that.
And Castro befriended them, took them -- well, he thought -- they thought he was going to take them to wherever. And next thing you know, they wind up at his home on Seymour Avenue. And then they`re being held physically and emotionally for that long 10-year period.
I mean, you know -- it`s like you could go into the details of what went on inside of there. They were physically beaten, they were raped by this man. And of that going on over a period of -- well, like I say, nine to almost 11 years. Each one came in at a separate time.
CASAREZ: And Tom, that amounts to 977 counts in total, all of that. You know, it was just a couple of days ago that Ariel Castro was in court. And you always look at the demeanor, right, of the defendant to see exactly what he`s thinking about, what he`s doing.
I want you to watch Ariel Castro in court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Castro.
ARIEL CASTRO, DEFENDANT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you please look at me, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Castro? I need to make sure that you understand what I`m saying, OK?
CASTRO: Mm-hmm.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Castro.
CASTRO: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Again, you must look at me, sir. Can you open your eyes, please? At this time, it is my duty -- sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have to look up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please keep your eyes open so I make sure that you are listening to me and understanding what I`m saying, OK?
CASTRO: (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At this time, it is my duty to advise you of your rights and to conduct -- sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I don`t get it. He opened his eyes. He knew he was being asked to open his eyes and he opened them and then he shut them.
Dr. Bill Manion, who is joining us, who is a New Jersey medical examiner.
From a medical standpoint, is he on medication or did he just not want to open his eyes in respect to the judge?
DR. BILL MANION, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: Well, it`s hard to say. He may be on some type of med. I don`t know if he`s been evaluated by a psychiatrist. They haven`t talked about that. I don`t think he`s trying to plead insanity or something like that as a defense. So it`s hard to say what`s going on.
But obviously he must feel quite contrite and standing before the judge and hoping to swing a deal, I`m sure he`s going to be as respectful as possible.
CASAREZ: Absolutely amazing. Let`s go out to the callers. Michelle in New York.
Hi, Michelle.
MICHELLE, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: Hi. How are you?
CASAREZ: I`m fine. Thank you for calling.
MICHELLE: This is such a disgrace. This man should not be allowed a plea deal, for sure. You know, what he put on those women is horrible.
CASAREZ: It just seems too easy. It just seems that he`s not paying for what he has done.
I want to go out to Mike Gottlieb joining us, defense attorney.
Here`s the thing. You have a right to a speedy trial. Under the Constitution, you have a right to that speedy trial. The defense is exercising that because in court the other day the defense said, Mr. Prosecutor, I haven`t gotten all the forensic evidence, prosecutors said we`re working night and day to go through it ourselves. We don`t even have a handle on it.
Is it just too much trouble to go to trial with 997 counts?
MIKE GOTTLIEB, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, I think it`s a good strategic move for the defense to move as quickly as possible. This is a huge case. You`ve got 10 years` worth of evidence, not all the evidence has been processed yet. Not all the evidence has necessarily been turned over to the defense. So I think from a strategy standpoint, the defense is making a very good, calculated move, saying, look, we`re ready.
Time is usually on the side of a defendant and they`re saying we`re ready. They`re trying to catch the prosecution and these girls, before they have healed, maybe before they`ve had an opportunity to reflect and make a different decision. They`re catching them at a time when they`re still vulnerable and I think they`re making a very good strategic move on behalf of their client.
CASAREZ: You know, Dwane Cates, I want to take you back a few years to the Anthony Sowell case. We covered this on NANCY GRACE for so many nights. Anthony Sowell, Cleveland, Ohio, all of a sudden bodies were found in his home, they were found in his basement, they were found outside, 11 bodies all together.
Guess what? He got the death penalty, Anthony Sowell. So what makes Ariel Castro so much better that he shouldn`t have to get the death penalty?
DWANE CATES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it was discussed earlier, Jean. They didn`t find any bodies. They don`t have any proof of these capital murders. They could spend all this money, spend all this time, have a huge media circus, and then not get the death penalty anyway.
CASAREZ: But Susan Moss --
CATES: So they`re doing the right thing.
CASAREZ: Susan Moss, because these girls lived, then he benefits from that?
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: Are you kidding me? You don`t think they`re going to be able to prove aggravated circumstances when you have four witnesses that are going to be so believable, their stories are going to be told with emotion, and they`re going to be believable. Certainly more than this guy, who`s never going to take the stand. Each of those witnesses --
(CROSSTALK)
CATES: They can`t prove that murders took place.
MOSS: -- will stand up and then they will say they`ve got punched --
CATES: They have to prove that there was a murder.
MOSS: That they were starved when they were pregnant. That they gave birth to miscarriage of children. They are going to be able to prove each and every count because you`ve got four witnesses who are going to go step by step and explain what happened for those 10 years, and what any jury who are human hears the trauma of each of these four ladies, and this one little girl, you`ve got to be kidding me. There will be a guilty verdict. And if you don`t think so --
CATES: There`s no way.
MOSS: -- then you`re --
CATES: They can`t prove aggravated murder.
MOSS: Not a very good defense lawyer. Of course they --
CATES: They can`t prove them. There is no body.
MOSS: Yes?
CATES: There`s no body. They can`t prove that there were pregnancies.
MOSS: You don`t need a body to prove murder.
CATES: They can`t prove it.
MOSS: Are you kidding me? How many convictions in this world have there been --
CATES: Can they even prove that these girls were pregnant?
MOSS: -- when there is not -- you want -- she`s going to -- that`s what she is going to testify to. She is going to testify that a child was miscarriage. She is going to testify that she gave birth to a stillborn. This is what`s going to come out of these very believable women`s mouths. And if you don`t think a jury is going to be moved by this, then -- I`ve got a bridge to sell you.
CASAREZ: All right. And that is called eyewitness testimony and it can be powerful.
We`re going to go to break. We`ll be right back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amanda, you said -- what was his name again?
BERRY: Ariel Castro.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They arrested a 52-year-old former school bus driver, who lives there, Ariel Castro.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My understanding is that the parties have discussed possible pleas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, your honor.
BERRY: I`ve been kidnapped, and I`ve been missing for 10 years. And I`m here. I`m free now.
First and foremost, I want everyone to know how happy I am to be home with my family, my friends.
MICHELLE KNIGHT, KIDNAPPING SURVIVOR: I just want everyone to know I`m doing just fine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What we`ve done in 10 years is nothing compared to what those women have done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: These girls lived, these girls survived. And the courage that it took.
I`m Jean Casarez in for Nancy Grace. We`re also getting some new information. And we want you to look at the house of Ariel Castro. I think we have a shot of that house. It looks very normal, right? Can you imagine the evidence that is in that house, evidence has been collected.
Well, listen to this. Today, the day before a plea deal may be announced, guess who arrived at that house? The demolition inspector. That`s right. There are plans to demolish that house. Is that smart? When you think about the potentiality of other crimes, maybe other victims through the years that Ariel Castro may have had in that home? And now the home is going to be demolished?
We are taking your calls tonight. Sandy in Illinois.
Hi, Sandy.
SANDY, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Hi, Jean. Thank you for taking my call.
CASAREZ: Thank you for calling.
SANDY: I am just appalled at this situation. Do these girls -- did they not have people looking for them, their families, their friends? I mean, 10 years. Really?
CASAREZ: Yes. It is amazing. And Sandy, I`m sure you heard, all three girls were abducted from the same street. In Cleveland, 2002, 2003, 2004.
To Tom Moore, news anchor out of Cleveland, reporter, WTAM. What happened in that decade? I mean, how much of a focus by law enforcement and the community was there to find these three girls?
MOORE: I`m hearing (INAUDIBLE) because at least in the cases of Gina and Michelle -- or I should say Gina and Amanda, there was a massive effort to try to find those two. If you go on the Web site of Cleveland and still on the west side of Cleveland even now, you`ll still find traces of the posters.
Posters with the pictures of the girls as they were then. Pictures or posters as they might have been years later through age progression. So believe me, nobody forgot about those two. Michelle Knight, a different story. Because she did -- she did have a little bit of a bad relationship with her mother, and so they looked for her for a little while, but the family gave up on that.
Again, that was just because it was a different family situation. And never made it in the news, because to be honest, that -- her family never even came to the media, whereas Gina and Amanda`s parents and family, they came to us. They wanted us to get out the word that they were missing. And we kept on that story.
CASAREZ: To psychoanalyst Bethany Marshall. With these three young women now, girls then, young women now, psychologically, are they able at this point to make a decision if they personally want to go to trial and testify or not?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Yes. You know, I`ve watched these YouTube videos. These girls are extremely resilient. And I think they know their own minds. They are remarkable young women. And to place this whole thing in context, I believe that one of the reasons Amanda Berry`s 6-year-old was allowed to survive was that Castro was grooming his next victim.
And, in fact, that may have been the final catalyst to motivate her to put aside her own terror of being killed in order to try to alert the help of a neighbor. People are wondering why these girls didn`t escape. They`re terrified of losing their lives. They were so frightened that there`s no way they could have escaped.
CASAREZ: And things were done to them when they tried to escape. They weren`t allowed to even begin to escape.
And joining us tonight, a family friend of Gina DeJesus, we have Jannette Gomez with us.
Jannette, I know you saw Gina just a couple of days ago. Has she spoken at all about preventing this happening with someone else? Because you think about the capability that somebody else could do this. Could be doing this right now to young women or young men across the country. Does she have any thoughts to get out there and help?
JANNETTE GOMEZ, FRIEND OF VICTIM GINA DE JESUS: As far as my knowledge, I know I really haven`t -- we really haven`t spoken about any situation like that. Maybe she will come out in the future and speak out and probably gather an organization or a group or something or help out other young ladies. But at the present time, no, we haven`t discussed with the family anything like this. But it will be a possibility.
CASAREZ: And I`m sure -- and I`m sure it takes time. Elizabeth Smart, it took a long time for her to come out. Many, many years to come out. She faced her accuser in court. I was at that trial in Salt Lake City, Utah. And the stories were horrendous. But the strength that we see in these victims, when they come forward, I think is absolutely amazing.
I want to go to Susan Moss again, because, you know, there`s got to be something here so that there is a deterrent effect for others that may want to perpetuate the same type of crimes.
MOSS: Absolutely.
CASAREZ: I don`t see it here.
MOSS: And not only a deterrent for the perpetrator but a deterrent for everybody who knew or should have known that something was going on. This man had relatives, OK? And those relatives -- he had brothers. Somebody should have been saying, hey, why is there barbed wire on the garage door? Why is there a padlock on the front door? Why are the basement windows so black?
This doesn`t seem right. Somebody should have gone into that house, somebody should have checked it out and somebody should have said, hey, none of this makes sense. And, you know, by the way, my brother may be have always been a little off, and maybe we could have stopped this before the 10-year mark.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Fifty-two-year-old former school bus driver is facing more than 900 charges.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: There is a possible plea deal in the works that would avoid a lengthy trial.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Michelle Knight disappeared when she was 19. That was 2002.
KNIGHT: I may have been through hell and back. I am strong enough to walk through hell with a smile on my face.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Amanda Berry disappeared the day before her 17th birthday. That was 2003.
BERRY: I`m getting stronger each day and having my privacy has helped immensely.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Just strange to see a little girl up here, and I start questioning people, I said, he`s got a daughter, they said, no, he doesn`t even have a wife.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez in for Nancy Grace. We are getting some more information in. 7:30 -- 7:25 to be exact, a.m. this morning, Ariel Castro met with his attorneys in his jail cell and CNN is now reporting that people close to the case are saying they are on the home stretch for a plea deal. They are going back and forth, the prosecution and the defense, to strike that deal, which may be announced as soon as tomorrow morning.
And reportedly, an attorney representing at least one of the victims is saying that they do not want to testify and that is one of the reasons going forward to this plea deal.
Jannette Gomez join us tonight.
You are a very close friend with Gina DeJesus. You speak to her, you see her, you saw her a couple of days ago. Do you also know Ariel Castro?
GOMEZ: Yes, I do. Unfortunately, yes, I do.
CASAREZ: Tell me about him.
GOMEZ: He`s amazing -- I mean, it`s very shocking to know a person for over 25 years, that shared times with you, that he goes -- you know, he goes out with you, see people in this neighborhood, says hi, give you hugs and kisses and acts so normal. When I heard the news, this was very shocking. This was like very deceiving. Especially for us, the Puerto Rican and the Hispanic communities.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CASAREZ: We remember American hero, Army Specialist Thomas Moffett, 21 years old, from Wichita, Kansas. He`s buried at Arlington. He was awarded the Purple Heart, the Army Achievement Medal, and the National Defense Service medal. He leaves behind his parents, John and Brenda, his brother, Jacob.
Thomas Moffett, an American hero.
I want to go out to Stephanie in Nevada who`s been waiting all hour to call. Stephanie?
STEPHANIE, CALLER FROM NEVADA: Yes, hi. Thanks, Jean, for taking my call. I really appreciate it.
CASAREZ: Definitely.
STEPHANIE: I just wanted to make a little statement here. The only reason, as a prosecutor, that I would even consider this plea agreement is so that I could put him, intentionally, in general population. Because I think we all know what will happen to him if he is put in GP. And it won`t be pretty.
I think to let him off the easy way, and I am all for the death penalty, all for it, but in this particular case, I really like the idea of do unto others, and he would definitely get it in general population.
CASAREZ: And you know, Stephanie, that`s an excellent question, because the question is, will he be in closed custody, because of the high- profile nature, or will they, ultimately, put him in general population?
I think that`s a question and that will be in the hands of the prison officials in Ohio.
I want to go back to Jannette Gomez, who is a friend of Gina DeJesus, but now we`ve suddenly learned that you have known for 30 years Ariel Castro. This is a man that seemingly led such a normal life. He was a school bus driver, right?
GOMEZ: Yes.
CASAREZ: And he played the bass in a local band that was really popular.
GOMEZ: Yes, he was. He was that school bus driver, normal person, like anybody else, going home, going back to work, being out there in the society, just mingling and chilling with everybody. It`s amazing. It`s amazing.
CASAREZ: So Gina -- I mean, so, Jannette, you`re living your life, and you knew Gina, you knew she was missing, and you knew Ariel Castro at the same time and you never dreamed that your good friend was right there behind the walls of his home?
GOMEZ: I would never imagine -- there was sometimes, like, I have a house on Wait Avenue, and I remember last year when they mentioned Amanda Berry, when they were looking for Amanda Berry on Wait Avenue, and he was standing there, and -- I mean, she was in every site, in ever vigil, and he had made some comments, and people have said yes, they had made some comments like, they`re not going to find her, they`re wasting their time, the city`s wasting money, but how the hell do you know?.
Of course, because you had them. Because you had them. That`s why you made all these comments. I wish we would had more common sense to pick up on him, that he was always on these vigils.
CASAREZ: Jannette, it makes no common sense, it just does not. Thank you so much.
And everybody, Dr. Drew has Lance Bass tonight with some advice for his friend, Amanda Bynes. It`s coming up next.
END
