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Nancy Grace
Search for Dimaggio Expands to Oregon; Amber Alert Issued for Missing Girl Hannah Anderson
Aired August 08, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRETT ANDERSON, FATHER OF MISSING GIRL: You`ve taken everything. The damage is done. Just let my daughter go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He desperately needs to let her go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amber Alert blankets Oregon as a search for a suspected killer and a missing teen grows more desperate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two credible and possible sightings up in Oregon and northern California have given this family a lot of hope.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please keep your eyes open, I don`t care where it is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oregon has activated their Amber Alert system due to some possible sightings.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s so sweet and trusting, and unfortunately, too trusting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One witness had said that Dimaggio had a crush on Hannah.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I had heard something about that or my wife had heard something about that, it would have been cut off.
ANDERSON: Let her go home safe. Let her be with me and...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He needs to take Hannah and let Hannah go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, San Diego suburbs, a nationwide Amber Alert. At this hour, police dragnets in the hunt for a suspected killer believed to have abducted two children. Their mother`s body, along with the dog, found burning dead in the fiery rubble of Uncle Jim`s home and garage.
Wanted, a 40-year-old white male. He`s an IT computer expert, James Lee "Jim" Dimaggio, tonight on the run, we believe, with the 8-year-old little boy and the 16-year-old sister, the obvious target of Dimaggio`s affections. Forty-year-old Dimaggio has, quote, "romantic feelings" for the girl -- translation, sex feelings -- for the girl whose mother he likely murdered and then burned the home to hide the evidence, Dimaggio an avid camper and survivalist.
Bombshell tonight, Dimaggio believes to be armed and he`s rigged his car with explosives. The girl can`t get out of the car, this as sightings of Dimaggio`s blue Nissan Versa pouring in from California, Oregon, Washington state. And tonight, in a primetime exclusive, suspect Dimaggio`s own sister is with us and taking your calls, outraged. The sister says her brother, Dimaggio, is the victim.
Good evening, everyone. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
The situation seemingly has gone from bad to worse. Joining me right now, Paul Vercammen, CNN Correspondent joining me from San Diego. Paul, what can you tell me about Dimaggio rigging his Versa, his Nissan Versa with explosives so the girl can`t get out?
PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, authorities here in San Diego County are taking it so seriously that they`re warning both civilians and law enforcement officers to be careful if, indeed, they do approach and find this Versa. First off, they said that they have reason to believe that Dimaggio may have on him homemade bombs or improvised explosive devices. And the second half of that is they believe there could come a time when he abandons the car and then rigs it with these devices, Nancy.
GRACE: Paul, what has led them to believe that Dimaggio has rigged the blue Nissan Versa? Why do they think that? Is it something they found in the rubble of his home? And PS, everybody, it was his home.
And we have now learned that for some reason, the mom had gone over there for an appointment that they had scheduled her to come over there. So was this all planned out?
Paul, did they find something in the rubble to make them think he`s got explosives in the car?
VERCAMMEN: Well, Nancy, that was exactly my question to authorities just a short time ago. And as you know, as a former prosecutor, there are many times when they`re withholding something just in case they can extract it in a confession later.
I also suggested was there some sort of accelerant used or something that, you know, expedited the fire in the house. No answer for that right now, but it seems that that could be a logical line to explore, a theory in all of this. All they`re saying right now, though, is they have strong reason to believe that he may have improvised explosive devices on him.
Also, they want to stress that he is a survivalist type, someone who could hide out for a long time in the woods, so to speak, someone who`s familiar with camping. And they want to warn anybody in the western U.S. who might be out there right now on a weekend at a national park or wherever not to approach him or the car if they see them, Nancy.
GRACE: Paul Vercammen, CNN correspondent joining us in San Diego.
Out to John Phillips, talk show host, KABC, columnist, "Orange County Register." John Phillips, thank you so much for being with us.
Now, tips have been pouring in. Tell me about the tips. What do we know?
JOHN PHILLIPS, KABC TALK RADIO (via telephone): Well, we received some tips that initially turned out to not appear to be credible. Initially, they said it was Canada or Texas. Now everything has shifted to northern California and the state of Oregon, where an Amber Alert was issued.
And there`s something very important to note about northern California and Oregon when you`re looking for a missing person, when there`s an Amber Alert that`s been issued. There`s been a big political debate that`s been going on in the country over those cameras that police cars have where they record license plates of all the cars that they pass.
Northern California and Oregon, Nancy, are way ahead of the curve on that. A lot of those police departments have access to these cameras. So if this guy is driving around up in northern California and Oregon, those law enforcement agencies are going to be right on top of it. He better be a survivalist if he`s up there.
GRACE: Clark Goldband, when we say the western U.S., let`s talk about specifically what tips. Let`s take a look at the map. He`s seemingly moving toward Canada, if these tips are to be believed, Clark.
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. There was one sighting in real northern California, on the border. About 50 miles away in Oregon, there was another sighting.
And here is what`s breaking. A local report, Nancy, in about 40 miles away from Seattle, Washington. Now, these three tips, law enforcement has not been able to confirm them, but they cannot totally shoot them down. What`s important is it shows a clear pattern. There you see it on your screen. Alturas, California, Lakeview there next door in Oregon, and Bremerton, Washington, about 40 miles away from Seattle. But what`s more important, perhaps, Nancy, just about 180 miles away from the Canadian border.
GRACE: You know, we`re also hearing from neighbors that they heard a pop, pop, pop, Clark, as the fire was going down. Again, this is the log cabin situated on about three acres...
GOLDBAND: That`s right.
GRACE: ... that Dimaggio built for himself. This is the home that he wanted. He wanted to buy this home, to create this home. So it`s his home that he destroyed.
Now, the neighbors seem to hear, what is that, ammunition going off?
GOLDBAND: Yes, that`s right, Nancy. In fact, it was a 10-year-old boy who -- his mom said he used to play with the 8-year-old Ethan. He looked out the window and said, Mom, there`s a fire at Jim`s house. Mom calls 911. And a few of the neighbors told local reports they could hear the pop, pop, pop sound popping off in the fire.
The firefighters were there for about an hour when some of the neighbors heard, We`ve got a homicide, firefighters shouting, We`ve got a homicide. And since then, this case has spiraled all the way to where it is now, Nancy.
GRACE: To well-known bounty hunter Leonard Padilla, joining us tonight. Leonard, what do you think? What is the right tack to take to catch Dimaggio, and hopefully, the girl alive? If he`s got his car rigged with explosives, she can`t get in or out.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, his primary task right now is to get to Canada. He knows if he gets caught in the United States, he`s looking at the death penalty. Canada won`t send him back unless the United States promises not to execute him. So the United States would have to drop the death penalty. So his primary task is to get to Canada.
Now, as far as the course (ph) and the roads that he`s taking, I`m very familiar with the Alturas, Lakeview area. It kind of funnels down into a situation where you can`t really go too many off-roads and things of that nature. They might be (INAUDIBLE) that he`s a survivalist. He won`t make it up there.
But as far as getting to Seattle -- he`s just trying to get a couple of places that you can cross the border into Canada that don`t have people, officials there. But right now, I`m telling you, by now the marshals in the United States, the feds and the RCMP have got those crossings under observation. No doubt about it. He`s going to get caught by Monday. He won`t outlast them.
GRACE: Now, why are you so convinced he can`t make it? I mean, he is a survivalist.
PADILLA: He can`t. Places like Alturas, I mean, you -- you have nothing. You -- what, are you going to eat rattlesnakes or a mountain lion? It`s just unbelievable how treacherous and how -- that territory is up there. We used to -- I lived up there. I know what it`s like. And it`s just nothing, nothing there. And if you get across into Lakeview, it doesn`t get any better.
And if they see a car that`s blue, they`ll call it in. And that`s why you -- there`s no cars on those roads up there. And going into Seattle, sure, there`s a lot of people, a lot of cars and things. But by now, that border is jammed up. And he`s not even going to be able to try like most people (INAUDIBLE) park their car and take a ferry...
GRACE: Oh, come on! Come on, though. In, out to you, Marc Klaas, president, founder, Klaas Kids Foundation. To get into Canada, for Pete`s sake, it`s not like you`ve got to swim across the Rio Grande. You walk through some woods and you`re on the other side. You`re in Canada. There`s not a big wall or a fence. You can walk right into Canada.
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Yes. Hi, Nancy. Oh, I`m getting some feedback here (INAUDIBLE) this isn`t going to work. I`m sorry.
GRACE: OK, hold on. Work on his satellite, please, because I can`t quite hear what Marc is saying.
Let me go back to John Phillips, KABC, joining us. John, he can walk right into Canada, right? There`s nothing to stop him. I mean, not everybody has to drive through the guard station, you know what I mean? You can walk around it through the woods.
PHILLIPS: Right. Well, I mean, we know how unguarded much of the southern border is, and the northern border is even more porous than the southern border. There are a lot of areas where that border goes right across, where there`s zero population. So if you find your way to a remote part of Washington state or one of those other states in the Pacific Northwest, you could theoretically get over without anyone seeing you.
GRACE: We are live and taking your calls.
Joining me right now is a special guest, Marissa Chavez. This is the best friend of 16-year-old Hannah, now believed to be abducted by Joe -- "Jim" Dimaggio, James Lee Dimaggio, 40-year-old white male, an IT specialist, a computer specialist.
Thank you so much for being with us, Marissa.
MARISSA CHAVEZ, BEST FRIEND OF MISSING GIRL (via telephone): You`re welcome.
GRACE: Marissa, you know, from everything I`ve read and learned about Hannah, she is outgoing. She`s beautiful. She makes good grades. She loved her mom and dad. But she was very, very leery of Dimaggio.
CHAVEZ: Yes. Towards the end, she just started to get a little, like, weirded out by him.
GRACE: What do you mean by that?
CHAVEZ: Well, just like -- because we used to hang out with him all the time, and then she just started, like, to distance herself from him. She would just, like, say that, Oh, he`s weird because he would text her a lot. And if she didn`t respond, he`d, like, message her on Facebook and try to get ahold of her.
GRACE: What was he saying? What was he saying in the texts? And why did he want to talk to her on the phone all the time?
CHAVEZ: I don`t know. Like, he would just say little comments, like, Hey, just checking in to see how you`re doing. And if she didn`t respond to him, then he would text me, like, Hey, is everything OK with Hannah or is she mad at me or, like...
GRACE: A 40-year-old man is saying, Is she mad at me? It sounds like -- it sounds like a 7th grader sending love notes.
CHAVEZ: Yes.
GRACE: What happened when they went on that trip to Hollywood together, just Dimaggio and Hannah?
CHAVEZ: She had told me that they were going for -- because it was her sweet 16 present. And when she came back, she came back kind of early. And I hung out with her when she came back, and she said that she was on her phone a lot, like, posting pictures. And you know, she was in Hollywood, so you do that. And he just kept making comments like, Oh, you know, get off the phone for a second. Or he asked her, like, Oh, where do you want to go next? She would take a second to respond so she would say, Hold on, I`m posting something, and he got upset about that, so he cut the trip early.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We haven`t been able to make a positive ID at this point. So as far as we`re concerned, we`re looking for two children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A law enforcement source close to this investigation said that the remains found inside the home are consistent with those of an 8-year-old child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t want any of the public to think that if they were to see somebody fitting the description of Dimaggio and Hannah that, well, it`s not them because Ethan isn`t with them. But we`re holding out hope that Ethan is still alive and OK with Hannah, and hopefully, we`ll be able to get them both back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s talk about the sightings. Back to you, Clark Goldband. The sightings -- when the car has been sighted -- hopefully, it`s this car -- is there a man and a woman? Is there an 8-year-old boy in the car? Is there a third person in the car?
GOLDBAND: We know that in the last sighting, the most recent sighting in Washington state, that tipster, according to local reports, said there was both a man, and he was driving, and a woman in the passenger seat. This was just a few hours ago, Nancy.
GRACE: OK, so that tipster didn`t see a little boy in the car, right?
GOLDBAND: Not that we know of, no.
GRACE: OK. Did you notice -- out to you, John Phillips, KABC. Did you notice when the father spoke that he referred only to Hannah getting away? He did not refer to Ethan getting away.
PHILLIPS: That`s right. And then before that, he qualified it by saying, You`ve taken everything away from me. And then he paused and then he said, And now, Hannah, if you`re there, I love you. If you can get away from this guy, run. We`re going to find you. Did not address his son by name, no.
GRACE: OK. Right now, we are going to a sheriff`s presser. Let`s see what they`ve got to see. Let`s go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We believe that he may be in possession of kind of improvised explosives, working on the theory that he abandoned the car, we think there`s a possibility the car could be rigged. So we want to put out there for civilian safety, officer safety, if you see this car, do not approach it. But call law enforcement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What we are bringing you right now is the sheriff`s presser. They are talking about Dimaggio rigging his car with explosives. Let`s go back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Another thing we really wanted to kind of emphasize to the public today is that he enjoyed being outside, camping, hiking. There`s a possibility that he could be hunkered down somewhere in a rural area, not just in southern California but anywhere up and down the state, the northwest, Canada, down into Mexico.
So anyone out there right now that`s enjoying hiking or camping, please look for this car. Please look for these faces. And again, to emphasize, if you see anything like this, don`t take any action on your own, but please call 911.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The desperate search for two missing children in California has changed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An Amber Alert blankets Oregon as the search for a suspected killer and a missing teen grows more desperate.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It has spread to Oregon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oregon has activated their Amber Alert system due to some possible sightings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Several states on high alert after possible sightings of the blue Nissan Versa driven by James Dimaggio.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He could be anywhere. That`s why people that are going out to different camp spots, please keep your eyes open.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are on the search for a 40-year-old white male believed to have abducted a 16-year-old girl, the object of his affection, if you want to put it that way, and her 8-year-old little brother.
Joining me right now, Paul Vercammen, CNN correspondent joining me from San Diego. What more do we know about Dimaggio? What can we learn from it? How can we use that knowledge?
VERCAMMEN: Well, we know that they are very concerned that he could be armed with some sort of homemade bomb. They also have alluded to the fact that he is somebody who is well aware of camping and this sort of thing, emphasizing that he could be on any of these back roads.
Now, we know there were two sightings yesterday, Nancy, one in Lake County, Oregon, and then across the border in Modoc County, California. And I talked to the sheriff from Modoc County. Here`s what he said about the sighting.
It was an 18-year-old girl, a maid at a hotel, who thinks that she saw the car, wrote down the license plate. There is somewhat of an inconsistency there with her that they`re trying to work out.
But if this thread were to be followed, it would suggest that he and 16- year-old Hannah might have gone up rural highway 395 that runs along the spine of California. It would go through Oregon and through Washington and all the way to Canada.
Also, one more little thing. I want to show you something, Nancy. He does have a misdemeanor conviction back in Texas. This is from 18 years ago. Then 22-year-old Jim Dimaggio was arrested and convicted of fleeing from a police officer.
Well, in the report that we obtained here at CNN, at one point during the chase, he reached speeds of up to 60 or 70 miles an hour on a rural or dirt road, Nancy.
GRACE: You know, interesting. You got to take that into his mindset, Paul, about who would elude police on a high-speed chase. What kind of a mind -- I mean, I wouldn`t try to elude police. I`d be afraid they`d shoot me. But he would. What does that say about his frame of mind?
Everyone, we have spoken to Dimaggio`s sister. She is defending him, saying that he is the victim, somehow blaming it on the fact that he lives near the Mexican border.
All right. Out to Beth Carey (ph). Beth, you spoke with Laura Dimaggio extensively. She`s defending her brother, is she not?
BETH CAREY, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, she is, Nancy. She`s saying she doesn`t think her brother is involved in any way. She believes there is foul play and that he is a victim. She says he lives so close to the border, who knows what could have happened.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ethan wore his heart on his sleeve. He would give -- do anything for anybody, loved everybody. And Hannah was just a beautiful, beautiful girl. She was a very lovely lady, very friendly to everybody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The massive search expanding to Oregon and Washington for the man suspected of killing a woman, possibly her son, then abducting her daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He could be anywhere at this point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re still trying to make a complete positive identification on the child`s remains that were found in the...
ANDERSON: I hope that`s not my boy, but I have to kind of think that it is. Right now, a lot of focus is on trying to get my daughter back alive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Paul Vercammen, CNN correspondent on the scene.
Paul, how did the victim get over there? Now we know 42-year-old Christina Anderson, mother of two. Why was she lured over to DiMaggio`s home?
PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we understand it was a very comfortable relationship, Nancy. And also I want to tell you something else. Sandy Oak County authorities apologizing today, they said that they now believe she is 44 years old, going back to the original age.
From what we understand, Jim DiMaggio and her husband, Brett Anderson, were good friends. There was a family relationship there. They knew the children since childbirth. So there was such a strong comfort level, as we reported, that the children considered Jim DiMaggio to be an uncle. It would not be uncommon, according to everybody who knew this family for Mrs. Anderson to go ahead and visit Jim with the kids on the weekend.
This town, Boulder, it`s very close to the Mexican border -- excuse me, Boulevard, is very close to the Mexican border. And it`s a place where it`s kind of wide open. The idea where you go out and about and spend a weekend in a rural setting.
In the meantime, the husband was working in Tennessee, you know, to earn a living for the family. So as we suggested, if all of this is true and the crimes that, you know, Mr. DiMaggio is accused of turn out to be true this is the ultimate breach of trust and betrayal.
GRACE: To Beth Carey, you`ve spent quite a bit of time with DiMaggio`s sister, Laura DiMaggio.
What did you learn?
BETH CAREY, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: I learned that she thinks her brother who lives so close to the border, who knows what could have happened. Basically she --
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. So she says DiMaggio is the victim. How is DiMaggio the victim in this scenario, Beth?
CAREY: She thinks that someone else could be involved, Nancy. She told me that her brother lives so close to the border and that`s why he has weapons in the home. She believes there`s foul play in this case.
GRACE: OK. So somehow the residents of Mexico are to blame for this, she keeps saying, because he lives close to the border? I don`t quite see the connection.
Question, his house is burned to the ground. His car is gone. So how could he not be involved, Beth?
CAREY: Nancy, I asked her if she was in denial and she said no, she is not. Her brother could not have done this.
GRACE: And what did she say about the Hollywood trip that he takes Hannah on, he takes a 16-year-old girl alone in Hollywood and stays in a hotel with her? Please explain that to me.
CAREY: She said Hannah was going to stay with her grandfather and that her brother was dropping her off, and that it wasn`t out of the ordinary for them to want to go to Hollywood because it was not that far away.
GRACE: Back to Marissa Chavez, best friend of Hannah Anderson, now missing, we believe abducted by 40-year-old DiMaggio.
Marissa, that Hollywood trip, did they stay at the grandparents?
MARISSA CHAVEZ, BEST FRIEND OF HANNAH ANDERSON: She said that the last night, they did.
GRACE: What about the other nights?
CHAVEZ: She said they were in a hotel.
GRACE: Together?
CHAVEZ: Yes.
GRACE: In one room?
CHAVEZ: Yes, one room.
GRACE: OK. And how did Hannah feel about that?
CHAVEZ: She actually didn`t say how she felt about that, but she had said that they were going to just sleep in the car, so she was, like, happy to be in a hotel room.
GRACE: Now the last day you spoke to her, I believe, was on a Friday. And you were supposed to get together with her and hang out the following Monday. What, if anything, did she say?
CHAVEZ: She didn`t say like anything she was doing this weekend. We were just talking about how we were going to hang out on Monday.
GRACE: Do you know how they ended up over at DiMaggio`s house?
CHAVEZ: No. Well, everyone is saying that it`s because he was -- they were invited because he was his losing house, but she didn`t tell me that she was even going up there.
GRACE: Now were you in the car when DiMaggio said to the 16-year-old girl that he had a crush on her?
CHAVEZ: Yes.
GRACE: What happened?
CHAVEZ: We were coming back from one of her gymnastic meets and I don`t remember how it got brought up but then he like kind of slowed down in the car and just said, Hannah, I do have a crush on you. You`re a great girl and just little things like that. But don`t think I`m weird or creepy Uncle Jim. I`m not saying I like you. I`m just saying if you were my age, I`d date you.
GRACE: OK. That -- that`s very disturbing. I guess the mom never knew about that. I imagine she never told Christina?
CHAVEZ: Yes, she didn`t. Because he would help out a lot with rides and taking Hannah and Ethan places and she didn`t -- she had told me she didn`t want to tell her mom because it would ruin that relationship and a lot of like ride situation and family stuff.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The desperate search for two missing children in California has changed.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Forty-year-old DiMaggio developed a worrying relationship with 16-year-old Hannah in recent years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s been reported one witness had said that DiMaggio had a crush on Hannah.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I honestly believe she was the target.
ANDERSON: And Hannah was just a beautiful, beautiful girl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fun, outgoing, loving, always happy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I honestly believe that Jim has snapped and couldn`t handle the infatuation that he had with Hannah.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He needs to take Hannah and let Hannah go. He desperately needs to let her go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A 40-year-old man infatuated with a 16-year-old girl? What makes it worse is that he was considered an uncle by the family. Uncle Jim. He knew this little girl since the time she was born. Friends of the father, of her father, and her mother. Her mother, Christina, found, her body burning in his -- DiMaggio`s home. Also a child`s body found. Many believe that is the body of the 8-year-old little brother, Ethan.
At this hour, hundreds of tips pouring in across the western U.S. from California nearing the Canadian border on the blue Nissan, the car that we believe DiMaggio is driving, a blue Nissan Versa.
But disturbingly, we`re also learning the car may be jerry-rigged with explosives. Those IDs, those sightings notably only mentioned a man and a woman, no little boy.
Out to Bethany Marshall, psychoanalysis and author. Bethany, weigh in.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, Nancy, he wasn`t just fond of this girl. He deluded himself into thinking that there was a special and unique relationship. Think about the mindset of the stalker. The stalker imagines there`s a relationship where there is none. And because of that, when the victim expresses autonomy and independence, the stalker becomes enraged.
Every time this little girl texted, spent an evening with a friend, took a picture, went to her cheerleading camp, he felt betrayed and rejected and the animus, the animosity towards her, the hostility began to grow. And I think what might have happened is that the mother began to suspect, maybe began to help the daughter separate or the daughter felt enormously guilty as if it was her fault because that`s how victims feel, right? They always feel that it`s their own fault that they`re being perpetrated upon.
So she tried to remove herself from him and he just snapped. Who did he have to get out of the way in order to get access to this victim? He had to get rid of the mother and the little boy. Why did he have to get rid of them? Because she loved them. This is her family. And he wanted her all to himself.
And those explosives, Nancy, this guy has explosive rage. And I`m hoping that it doesn`t get directed towards her. But the longer they`re on the road, the more she`s going to begin to express herself. She is a feisty 16-year-old that already confessed to her best friend, who is on this show. And when she starts to stand up to him, that is when the trouble is going to begin. When he realizes that he cannot completely control her.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Hugo Rodriguez, Miami, Anna Yum, defense attorney, L.A.
First out to you, Hugo. This guy is looking right at the California death penalty. That`s the way I see it. Because there`s two bodies in that fire. That`s mass murder. Anything over one body. Not only that, it`s death in the commission of another felony, that being arson. Now there`s kidnapping.
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FMR. FBI AGENT: I agree. And if he committed them, that`s what he`s looking at. So he`s trying to flee. He can only go north and south. Question is, why didn`t he go five miles into Mexico? But I don`t think that he could have adequately functioned in Mexico, if he has her with him.
And I agree with everyone else, he is trying to get to the Canadian border either to try to hide or save himself from possible death penalty.
GRACE: Anna?
ANNA YUM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think that if these allegations are true, of course the -- this sends chills down my spine. Because this is happening in my backyard. I practice in San Diego, I live in San Diego. But the operative word, Nancy, at this time is if. There`s just too many unknown variables right now to find out exactly what happened. We don`t know who committed the arson. We don`t know how --
GRACE: Put her up.
YUM: -- the mother was killed.
GRACE: Put her up.
(LAUGHTER)
Did you just say we don`t know who committed the arson?
YUM: Well, Nancy I think --
GRACE: If your home burnt to the ground, wouldn`t you at least be calling the insurance company? Do you think you`d be on the scene? Just a little? Once. He`s not in the fire. His car is gone. His home is burned to the ground. So where is he?
YUM: Well, we don`t know any of this evidence yet, Nancy. And that`s the problem, is that it`s too early to jump to conclusions.
GRACE: Anna, you do know two and two equals four, right? So if your home burned to the ground and you didn`t do it, wouldn`t you be there to try to find out what the hey happened?
YUM: But that`s just one of the factors, Nancy. There`s other factors that you need to consider as well in terms of their --
GRACE: What factors? What?
YUM: They`re saying that he -- they`re saying that he committed. They`re saying that he potentially committed murder regarding Ethan Anderson. We don`t know that. And they`re saying that there`s --
GRACE: I`m asking you what other factors there are.
(CROSSTALK)
YUM: Well, there`s no evidence -- there`s no witness who can say that he actually burned his house down. Is there anyone saying that he`s the one who did it?
GRACE: His house is burned to the ground. His car is gone and his best friend is dead. Her body is burned up in the fire. He`s got a crush on the girl. The girl`s gone. So explain to me what other factors I`m missing, please, Anna Yum.
YUM: Well, Nancy, that`s assuming that he has a crush on this girl. This is all hearsay, too, because you always have to --
GRACE: Hearsay?
YUM: As you know, Nancy --
GRACE: Hearsay?
YUM: The reliability of the statements. And we don`t know, we don`t know --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Actually, the statement of a defendant, the statement of a defendant as heard by the first hearer, that`s not hearsay. And you just heard a girl on this show, Marissa Chavez, say she heard him say, "I have a crush on you." What more do you want? What more do you need?
YUM: My understanding is that she heard it from Hannah who allegedly said this to her.
GRACE: No. Let`s check that out.
YUM: So what was the context?
GRACE: Marissa, weren`t you in the car when you heard the statement?
CHAVEZ: Yes.
GRACE: And who said it?
YUM: And what was --
CHAVEZ: Jim.
GRACE: And what -- now, Yum, no offense. But I want you to clean out your ears and I want you to listen to this.
All right, Marissa, tell us again what happened the day DiMaggio says I`ve got a crush on you to Hannah.
CHAVEZ: We were coming back from her gymnastics meet and I forget how it was brought up but he just said that he had a crush on her and he didn`t want her to think of him as a weird, creepy guy. He doesn`t like her, he was just saying if she was older and more his age, he would date her.
GRACE: Now, Anna, I don`t know what your experience is with men. And I don`t want to speculate on that. But when a guy starts a sentence with, I don`t want you to think I`m weird and creepy, you know what that means? They`re weird and creepy.
Now she heard him make this statement. So that completely destroys your argument. You got anything else for me?
CHAVEZ: Yes, but let`s think about this way -- let`s think about this, Nancy. Did she ever complain that he made any sexual advances towards her in the past? Did she ever make any kind of statements to her friends or to her mother that he actually made a pass at her or he was sexually inappropriate with her?
GRACE: You know, I don`t -- have you ever tried, for instance, a child molestation case?
YUM: Absolutely I have.
GRACE: OK.
YUM: Both as a former prosecutor and as a defense attorney.
GRACE: Then you know, then you know, that very typically, sex victims, domestic violence victims very often never say a word. And why is that, Bethany Marshall?
MARSHALL: Well, they don`t say a word because they imagine that the sexual attack against them is their fault. They feel that they caused it to happen. Instead of blaming the perpetrator, they cast the blame and the suspicion upon themselves. And then they`re afraid if the perpetrator tells that they`ll get in trouble.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: AN intense nationwide search is on for DiMaggio`s and his blue Nissan.
ANDERSON: I can`t fathom what happened in Jim`s head, what happened already. He obviously just lost it.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: AMBER alert was extended into Oregon after unconfirmed sightings of the vehicle in northern California and in southern Oregon.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: We just need members of the public to keep calling them in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tip line, 888-580-8477.
Back to Paul Vercammen on the ground in San Diego.
Paul, what`s the holdup in identifying the body of a child found in that fiery rubble?
VERCAMMEN: Well, Nancy, not to try to put sort of a, you know, ghastly underline on this but we did have an extremely, as you saw, severe, huge fire. And they say that the bodies` remains were charred almost, you know, well beyond recognition. And almost well beyond the point where they could collect the DNA. So they`re working on that right now, Nancy.
GRACE: With me, Paul Vercammen on the ground there in San Diego.
Back to John Phillips, KABC. My question is this. All of these tips are pouring in. What are cops doing about it?
JOHN PHILLIPS, HOST 789 KABC TALKRADIO: Well, they`re vetting them. And they`re seeing which ones have credibility, which ones don`t. Most of them don`t. People watch television, people read the newspapers, people listen to the radio. Sometimes they get caught up in the story and they want to be the hero, or they see something that`s not necessarily there, and they give a bad tip.
And the cops are pros at this. They do these things every time there`s a high-profile case. And it takes time sometimes. Sometimes it takes a bit of time to figure out which one is credible --
GRACE: Has his cell phone been used? Are they triangulating cell phones? Have they -- what do they say about her cell phone?
PHILLIPS: Yes, they can ping the cell phones. They don`t give all that information to the media which I`m sure they`ve done. And I alluded to the cameras on the police cars and in the cities earlier. There`s a lot of evidence that the police have and they`re using right now that we don`t necessarily know about.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We remember American hero, Marine Lance Corporal Philip Vinnich, 19, St. Charles, Missouri. Purple Heart, Combat Action Ribbon, National Defense Service medal. Parents Dave and Julie. Brothers Corey and Jason.
Philip Vinnich, American hero.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: We did a mock-up of DiMaggio as a bald person in case he was to shave his head which is probably one of the quickest ways to change his appearance. The same thing could have happened for Hannah. He could have cut her hair, dyed her hair, we just don`t know at this point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are taking your calls. On the run tonight, a 40- year-old white male, an IT computer and telecommunications expert. With him, we know, a 16-year-old girl, possibly her 8-year-old little brother.
Back to you, Marissa Chavez. Best friend of Hannah Anderson, the 16-year- old girl.
We are now hearing that he may have his car rigged with explosives. Hannah is a very, very smart girl. I`m just wondering how you think she would react in this situation. Would she try to run?
CHAVEZ: Yes, knowing her, if she got the opportunity to, she would definitely try to run.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas, KlaasKids Foundation. Marc, what is your advice at this hour for the girl?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I would give exactly the advice that her father gave her, that when she has her opportunity, she needs to bolt. And as he said, we`ll find you.
The thing is, Nancy, this guy has to stop for gas, he has to stop for food. I have to think that every law enforcement agency in Oregon and Washington is on high alert for this character right now. And they`ve probably got every squad car in both of those states on any routes that would have any ability to get into Canada. So it`s just a matter of time before they find this guy and bring him in. We can only hope that she can find a way to keep herself alive until that happens.
GRACE: "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" up next, everyone. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. As we continue the hunt for Hannah. Until then, good night, friend.
END
