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Nancy Grace
Mom Convicted of Murdering her 4-Year-Old Set Free; 3-Month-Old Dies in Hot Car While Dad Smokes Pot Nearby
Aired September 10, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live to Phoenix. Mommy dresses up her 4-year-old little boy in his favorite outfit and cowboy boots to go see Santa at the Metroplex mall. But instead, Mommy hands her 4-year-old son over to two men, who take the little boy out to the desert and shoot him execution-style in the head.
Bombshell tonight. In a stunning twist, Mommy walking free. And just within hours of leaving her jail cell, Mommy celebrates freedom with fine dining and photo ops of herself literally smelling the roses!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Four-year-old Christopher Milke was shot execution-style.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now scrambling to retry Milke for the 1989 murder of her 4-year-old son, Christopher.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The only thing really that I have left to hang onto is the higher court, the court of appeals, and I don`t just have one time (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After more than two decades behind bars, most of it on death row, the man who claims that Debra Milke confessed to the murder had a long history of misconduct and dishonesty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She decided that it would be best for Christopher Milke to die.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I said, If I didn`t want my son, then I could give him -- I would have given him to my family, my sister or someone else in my family.
It just amazes me how people can say that I was so abusive. Well, I was never reported.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still a fact that she was convicted of the murder of her 4-year-old son.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, his 3-month-old baby boy bakes to death, dying of heat stroke in a 107-degree car while Daddy outside smoking pot!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The bar employee cries inside an emergency vehicle after learning his 3-month-old son died in this gold (ph) car where he left him for over an hour.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somehow forget that the 3-month-old was in the car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say he was smoking pot while his 3-month- old waited.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three-month-old Jameson Gray (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rushed to the hospital where...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The infant was pronounced dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The evidence will support the fact he was smoking marijuana. Mr. Gray did not consciously intend for his child to die.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Crying for his baby and denying the accusations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he say anything?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One count of manslaughter and one count of child abuse. I do find probable cause for these counts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, live to Phoenix. Mommy dresses up her 4-year-old little boy in his favorite outfit and his cowboy boots to go see Santa at the Metroplex mall. But instead, Mommy hands her 4-year-old over to two men, who take the little boy out to the desert and they shoot him three times execution-style in the 4-year-old little boy`s head.
Bombshell tonight. In a stunning twist, Mommy walks free, and within hours, she`s celebrating her freedom with fine dining and photo ops of herself literally smelling the roses.
OK, let`s just let this sink in for a moment. There he is. There is her 4-year-old little boy, Christopher Mike (ph), 4 years old. My children are 5-and-a-half. I remember when they were 4, so defenseless, so helpless.
He saw Santa at the mall and he wanted to go so badly that she dresses him up in his favorite little 501 jeans and his little shirt and his favorite little cowboy boots to go see Santa. But Mommy doesn`t take him to see Santa. Now, let`s just think about that for a moment. Mommy doesn`t take her little boy to see Santa.
Why would she sit at home while your child is on Santa`s knee getting his picture taken? That doesn`t make sense to me. She hands him over to a live-in boyfriend and his cohort, and they take the child. Remember, this is not his bio dad. It`s her live-in. They take her little boy out to a desert wash in the desert and they gun the child down. They shoot a 4- year-old boy in the head execution-style three times.
And they all go to trial and they all faced a jury. Tonight, Mommy walking free after the death of her child.
Straight out to Jean Casarez, HLN legal correspondent. Why? Why is she walking free? Isn`t it true, Jean, that the same type and caliber of bullets used to gun her child down were found in her pocketbook?
JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Exactly. The ninth circuit court of appeals, Nancy, not only overturned the conviction, but ordered her free because the lead detective had a history of lying and coercing false confessions. And the defense tried to find that information out. They asked for it through subpoena. Prosecutor never turned it over, knowing this lead detective...
GRACE: So bottom line...
CASAREZ: ... had a history of lying.
GRACE: ... the ninth circuit court of appeals, who are a bunch of lawyers, judges that are appointed for life they can`t get fired! They have the job for life. They can`t get any -- they`re like the Supremes. They can render any decision they want and there`s no repercussion. They cannot get fired. They`re in it for life. once you`re appointed, that`s it for these federal appellate courts. So they`re in for life. They can do whatever they want, and they still get a paycheck. They still go home at night and watch the 6:00 o`clock news. It`s no problem to them.
They let Mommy go because the lead detective had a history of misconduct, right? But what about the fact...
CASAREZ: And the prosecutor didn`t tell the defense that.
GRACE: What?
CASAREZ: If they`d been able to use it in the trial to cross-examine that lead detective...
GRACE: What about the facts? Out to Paul Huebl joining me out of Phoenix, investigative TV producer who actually interviewed Debra Milke behind bars.
What about the fact that these two men -- one of them was her live-in, the other was his friend. She hands the child over, and you`re going to tell me she didn`t know anything about it? In fact, they say it was her idea!
PAUL HUEBL, INTERVIEWED MILKE BEHIND BARS (via telephone): Nancy, the story that you have given the audience was never facts in evidence in this trial. Let`s begin with the little boy dressed in his favorite outfit. That was the outfit he wore every day because he wanted to. That`s what he liked and it was cute, little dinosaur shirt, his little bluejeans and those little cowboy boots. That was...
GRACE: Well, what his father...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What his father says, Paul -- what his father says is that that is his favorite outfit. Now, it may be the father`s wrong, but that`s what the father says.
HUEBL: The father is a felon. He`s a mental patient. He`s got numerous orders of protection from any women that he was associated with. He was never a witness in the criminal case for either in the prosecution or the defense. What he has to offer really has no value for evidence purposes.
Let`s begin with the fact that she did this to take the little boy -- to send the little boy to see Santa Claus. He had already been taken to see Santa Claus by none other than his mother and he wanted to go again. And that two men -- that James Styers, who she was renting from -- he was not her boyfriend. She had a boyfriend. It was not James Styers. She had no interest in James Styers to be a boyfriend, but she rented from him to escape her husband.
And she allowed -- he had a daughter the same age. Nobody knew that he was going to do what he did. Nobody knew that James Styers was going to, instead of take Christopher to see Santa Claus for the second time, was instead going to take him to his boyhood friend, Roger Scott, and then they would both take the boy out and kill him and then point the fingers at each other.
GRACE: Paul...
HUEBL: And by the way, they did not point the fingers at Mom.
GRACE: Paul -- Paul -- Paul...
HUEBL: Yes?
GRACE: What would be the motive? And many, many -- I know you say she had a boyfriend. I`m sure that`s what she told you. But many other...
HUEBL: No, that`s a fact. There`s no argument. That came out in court.
GRACE: OK, I`m going try to finish.
HUEBL: (INAUDIBLE) no relationship.
GRACE: I`m going to try again to finish. But many other sources say that this was also her boyfriend. Now, frankly, that`s neither here nor there. All I know is that she hands the boy over to these two men, and they gun him down.
Now, what could their possible motive be if they were not in cahoots with the mother? Paul?
HUEBL: Well, it`s very -- I`m going to give you -- I`m going to give you a motive. But you know, we talk about motives. We talk about theories. I have my own theory. My theory was that James Styers had a crush on Debra Milke. He wanted to have a relationship with her. And instead of her staying there, she showed him the fact that she got a new job across town. She was moving out to a new apartment that she paid a rent deposit for and enrolled Christopher in day care to be in a different part of town, far away from either her ex-husband or James Styers.
GRACE: So what`s the motive of killing the boy, then? I`m sorry, I don`t -- I`m not understanding what you`re trying to tell me.
HUEBL: I can`t think of any motive to murder a 4-year-old kid.
GRACE: Oh, OK.
HUEBL: Nobody can come up with...
GRACE: Except -- except out to you, Sheryl McCollum, crime analyst. Obviously, she`s living with one of the men. She hands her boy over to him.
SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST: Right.
GRACE: He and his friend take the boy to the desert and murder him. Now...
MCCOLLUM: Execution-style.
GRACE: I find it very difficult to believe, very difficult to believe that this mother did not know what was happening. Why does she have the bullets in her pocketbook?
MCCOLLUM: Correct. And Nancy, when she gets the call that the child was missing from Sears, she doesn`t go there. She doesn`t start to search for him and frantically beg for people to help her look for him. She decides she`s going to go to another town and hang out with her dad until police call her and update her on what`s going on.
My issue with that is if she believed that that baby was going to return home, she would have stayed right there.
GRACE: Interesting. Paul Huebl, why didn`t she stay home or at least go try to find out what was happening when the boy was reported missing?
HUEBL: Well, first of all, her car was in possession of James Styers. She didn`t have a way to get there. Second of all...
GRACE: Well, how did she get to her father`s?
HUEBL: Well, let me -- let me address the bullets in the purse.
GRACE: No, no, no! I`d like you to answer the question I just asked you. Why does she go somewhere else? You said she didn`t have a car, but she managed to get somewhere else, but she couldn`t go look for her child?
HUEBL: That was long afterwards, and the police told her to go there. The police were on her phone. Her phone was being recorded. It was being monitored by cops because they did not know who might be calling. And they told her to go there. She did what she was told.
GRACE: OK. Sheryl McCollum, what is your understanding of what happened?
MCCOLLUM: There is no way they had her phone monitored immediately. I`m talking about -- you get a call, Nancy, your child is missing. You flip out. If I don`t have a car, I`ll walk. I will stop a stranger and beg them to take me there to start looking. There`s zero chance her phone was monitored immediately. And your phone is monitored for ransom. She`s not got any money. Nobody`s going to ransom that child. That child was taken for the purposes of homicide. The motive would have been insurance.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forty-nine-year-old Debra Milke is now eligible to post bond and to walk out of jail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s still a fact that she was convicted of the murder of her 4-year-old son.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t have just one tragedy. I have two, you know? And the first one is the loss of Christopher, and the second one was the entire (INAUDIBLE) going through this legal stuff, and being convicted of it on top of it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She decided that it would be best for Christopher Milke to die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. This mother convicted by a jury in the execution-style death of her 4-year-old little boy after the man she lived with goes out and guns him down. She gets him dressed up to go see Santa at the mall, but instead she hands him over to two men that kill him execution-style. A jury agreed that she was involved and convicted her.
But then evidence came out the lead detective had a history of misconduct that was not revealed to the defense, so the entire thing is reversed by the ninth circuit court of appeals and she is out on bond.
Out to Jill Ryan, anchor with 92.3. Jill, thank you for being with us. Will there be a retrial?
JILL RYAN, KTAR 92.3 (via telephone): You know, Nancy, there will be a retrial, I believe. First we have to get through the suppression hearing. That is scheduled for the 23rd of the month. And that`s when Judge Rosa Moroz of Maricopa County superior court will decide if that alleged confession that we talked about will be admitted at the end of the month, on September (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Well, I mean, obviously, it should be admitted, but whoever lets it in is going to be subjected to cross-examination about the lead detective`s alleged history of misconduct. And I`m not here defending him. You know, if he`s got a history of misconduct, so be it. I`m here to try to get to the bottom of this, and it just doesn`t make sense to me that you`d hand your child over to go to a mall at age 4 -- at age 4, without the Mommy or the Daddy going with him? I just find that hard to believe.
And Jill Ryan joining me, news anchor with Newstalk -- what were bullets doing in her pocketbook, Jill, that match the same type of bullets used to kill her own child?
RYAN: Well, that`s exactly what some of the unanswered questions we`re trying to figure out at this point. And it`s been 23 years. They found bullets in her purse, also that she had offered custody to her sister and father.
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Wait! Wait! Wait! Wait! What? What did you say? What did you just say?
RYAN: She had offered custody before that. We`re talking about her parenting in general. She offered custody to her sister and to her father.
GRACE: She wanted to give the boy away to her sister? Is that what you just said, Jill Ryan?
RYAN: Yes. Yes. She absolutely offered custody to the sister and the father. And in fact, there are also reports that she was planning to terminate the pregnancy when she first found out she was pregnant, that she did not want to be a mother, and that she had told other people she was (ph) not, quote, for "mommyhood," and it did not suit her.
GRACE: Out to Paul Huebl, TV producer who interviewed Debra Milke, the mom. Is it true she tried to give her son away to various people?
HUEBL: She had a big problem with her ex-husband and she was running from him because he was dangerous and threatening. And she wanted to keep her son far away from him and safe. And if you know who he is...
GRACE: Is it true that she tried to give the son away? That`s a yes, no, Mr. Huebl.
HUEBL: That`s a no in the form of the question. The fact of the matter is that she custody issues because of trying to protect the kid, and that`s apparently all she did. Can I please...
GRACE: Paul are you...
HUEBL: ... discuss the bullets?
GRACE: Yes. Hold on. Are you working for the defense in this case, Mr. Huebl?
HUEBL: (INAUDIBLE) the whole point! I am not her investigator. I`m not the defense. I`m not her PR agent. This is what I`ve seen with my own eyes. I`ve looked far and wide for any evidence that would implicate her. The only evidence that`s out there, other than the gossip that you`ve regurgitated again today -- the only evidence is Saldate`s lies, and I interviewed her with a tape recorder. Two hours later, a hidden tape recorder, and she vehemently denies being involved or...
GRACE: Well, Mr. Huebl, you know, I am registering your criticism. However, let me remind you, Mr. Huebl, that a jury agreed, OK? So it`s not me, as you say, regurgitating gossip. Can you not hear what the other reporters are saying and what the -- what came out at trial?
Jill Ryan, joining me from Newstalk. Jill, didn`t one of the co- defendants, if not both, claim that this was her idea, that she claimed the boy was an inconvenience, didn`t want him around, had tried to give him away, had wanted to have an abortion? Isn`t that what the co-defendants said?
RYAN: That`s exactly what -- Roger Scott actually made the confession during a police interrogation. He`s the one that gave the information that actually led detectives to the boy`s body. So he had details that nobody else was willing or able to provide, Nancy.
And yes, he said that, basically, Debra just didn`t want her son, that he thought he was going to get a cut of the insurance payoff from the life insurance policy, which was $5,000 at the time. At that time, by the way, Debra was working as an insurance clerk. So yes, he said she just didn`t want her little boy anymore, that she had never really enjoyed being a mom and that she had kind of orchestrated this entire plan and that the motive was clearly money.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back. A convicted child killer now walking free, celebrating with fine dining and photos of herself.
Back to Jill Ryan, news anchor with Newstalk 92.3 KTAR. Jill, question. How and where was Christopher Milke`s little body found?
RYAN: Well, he was found -- really, his lifeless little body was found on the side of an abandoned desert road, Nancy. It was near 99th Avenue and Happy Valley Road. That`s an area of land that has now become known as Peoria (ph) because it`s now incorporated.
And investigators were led there based on the information that was provided when they talked to Roger Scott. He`s the one that gave them the details so that they found the little body. He`s the one that told them about the murder plan and about the details about how he was killed.
GRACE: Jill Ryan, news anchor on Newstalk 92.3 KTAR, question. What was the relationship between the two men that shot him to death and the mother, Milke?
RYAN: Well, we`re hearing a couple different stories about that. And written (ph) accounts in this case are really key. We don`t have all the details. It`s possible that there could have been a love triangle involved, but we do know that she was renting from James Styers. That is a fact. We know that James Styers was a friend of Roger Scott. Those two go back a long, long time.
We also know that James Styers was introduced to Debra Milke through her sister, Sandy (ph). Not many other details that, you know, we can confirm at this time.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The (inaudible) inside an emergency vehicle, after learning his 3-month-old son died in his car where he left him for over an hour.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somehow forgot that the 3-month-old was in the car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say he was smoking pot while his 3-month- old waited.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 3-month-old Jamison Gray.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rushed to the hospital where the infant was pronounced dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Evidence will support the fact he was smoking marijuana. Mr. Gray did not consciously intend for his child to die.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Crying for his baby and denying the accusations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he say anything?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not at this time.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One count of manslaughter and one count of child abuse. I do find probable cause for these counts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: His baby boy literally baked to death in the car reaching temperatures of at least 107 degrees. The baby`s body was 107 degrees when it was found. Daddy was nearby smoking a big, fat doobie while his little baby dies. We are taking your calls. Out to Michael Christian, investigative reporter. Michael, what happened?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Nancy, this was in Phoenix. We all know it is very hot in Phoenix. This is at the end of August. It`s a man named Daniel Gray, who was a kitchen manager at a sports pub, was off that particular day, but he went to the restaurant to check on some things, he said, and he took --
GRACE: Check on what? How much a big, fat doobie would cost him out in the parking lot?
CHRISTIAN: Well, at some point, according to witnesses, he found one. He and another employee from the restaurant apparently were standing in front of this car, which had the baby inside of it, Jamison Gray.
GRACE: Well, you know what, Michael? Why don`t we just start at the beginning. You know? A before Z? January 10, 2003. Marijuana, guilty. Drug paraphernalia, dismissed. 7/03. Marijuana, pled guilty. 9/04. Marijuana, dismissed, drug paraphernalia, guilty. July `05, driving with license suspended. DUI. Guilty. March `06. Marijuana, guilty. 10, October `08, reckless driving, guilty. April, 2010, DUI. Pled guilty to one count. OK, now, take it from there, Michael.
CHRISTIAN: Yes, as you say, Nancy, this man was no stranger to marijuana or alcohol. At any rate, he showed up at this sports pub where he worked. He and another employee apparently were standing in front of the car in the late morning, smoking marijuana. Inside the car was his 3- month-old son Jamison Gray. He says he just simply lost track of time. All of a sudden realized that the baby was in the car.
GRACE: Wait, he lost track of time?
CHRISTIAN: That`s what he told police, that he lost track of time. Now, originally he did not say that he had been smoking marijuana. He just told police he had been there and he had lost track of time. Then he had realized the baby was in the car.
GRACE: The whole reason he lost track of time is because he`s high on pot.
CHRISTIAN: That`s probably what happened. Another witness came forward to say, yes, I saw him smoking marijuana with this other employee.
GRACE: 31 years old, and he`s still standing around in a parking lot smoking pot?
CHRISTIAN: Yes, and on a very hot morning. Around noon that particular day in the Phoenix area, it was 100 to 102 degrees. I think it was measured to be 102 at noon, near where this spots pub is.
GRACE: Michael Christian, I just want you to hold that thought. Out to the medical examiner, forensic pathologist, toxicologist, Dr. William Morrone, joining me tonight out of Madison Heights. Dr. Morrone, thank you for being with us. Dr. Morrone, how much, how long do you think that little baby screamed? Jamison Dean Gray, just 3 months old? How much did this little angel scream? Before he died of heat stroke?
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Not very long. Here`s the facts on this. It only needs to be 80 degrees outside for 10 minutes before the inside temperature becomes fatal, and in Phoenix, it was over 100. So it was less than ten minutes, and the inside temperature was fatal.
That baby went through a loss of blood pressure, tremendous pain all over the body, and it`s a pain you can`t escape from, because you`re strapped in a chair, in a hot car, and we know that heat stroke can occur in cars when the outside temperature is as low as 57, and it was 102.
80 percent of all these deaths are just parents leaving the kids in the car. Not kids playing, not kids forgotten. 80 percent, leaving them in the car. Less than 10 minutes. The brain was boiling. Tremendous pain.
GRACE: As you`re talking and I`m looking at this 3 month old baby boy, Jamison Dean Gray, and I`m hearing Dr. Morrone say his brain was boiling. Why did you say that, Dr. Morrone?
MORRONE: Because the natural temperature that you have, that all the chemicals work right at, is 98.6, and we know that the brain becomes toxic when it hits 104, 105, 106. That`s why we try to cool people down with ice in the hospital. And this was 102 to 110 outside. Heat stroke can happen when it`s 57 degrees, and it only takes 10 minutes at 80 degrees.
GRACE: Shots of 3-month-old Jamison Dean Gray. His father stood outside, 31 years old, smoking pot while the baby died of heat stroke.
As we go to break, everyone, family album, showcasing your photos tonight. Canadian friends, the Bastarache family. Joshua and Conzuela (ph) love bike, hiking, camping. Aren`t they beautiful? Now, there is a loving mom. Share your photos at hlntv.com/nancy grace, and click on Nancy`s family album.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had forgotten his 3-month-old son inside his gold-colored Oldsmobile Valero parked behind the bar.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Scottsdale B&T sports pub --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police interviewed a kitchen employee at the restaurant Daniel Gray managed, who says they first saw Daniel smoking marijuana in the cooler with a brand new employee. Then later the witness said they saw Daniel and the new employee standing in front of Daniel`s car with the baby inside, and assumed they were smoking marijuana again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The man had left his 3-month-old son unattended for more than an hour. The child later found unresponsive, and pronounced dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The baby dies while daddy is just outside smoking a big, fat doobie. Out to the lines. Rusty in Indiana. Hi, Rusty. What`s your question?
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I just have a question. Do you think this could be a capital punishment case? And in some states, you get big fines, like in Arkansas, $10,000 fine under the age of 14, if you smoke around the -- smoke in the vehicle around kids. Do you think any law like that will have an effect on the charges brought on the dad?
GRACE: Rusty in Indiana, you`re right about the law, but this is a guy at 31 years old who is smoking a joint in the freezer of the restaurant? I don`t think he`s got two nickels to rub together, much less $10,000 for a fine. Not happening.
Death penalty. Let`s talk about that. Could he get -- well, there`s a saucy shot. Could he get the death penalty? Unleash the lawyers. Jeff Gould, defense attorney in New York, Yale Galanter, former defense attorney, former lawyer for O.J. Simpson. What about it? Yale Galanter.
YALE GALANTER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No shot at the death penalty. I think the case is charged properly, manslaughter, child abuse.
GRACE: I`m sure you do.
GALANTER: Obviously, he didn`t want his child to die. There was no intent, no malice, there was no ill will, spite or hatred. This was just stupid parenting, and unfortunately this little boy died.
GRACE: Yale, let`s not mislead the viewers. Is it not true that voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is not a defense, unless when it`s comatose? Yes/no, Galanter?
GALANTER: No, it`s not a defense.
GRACE: It is not. OK.
GALANTER: And nobody is saying the pot influenced what this bad parent did. This parent was neglectful to this child. You shouldn`t leave a child in 107-degree heat --
GRACE: I disagree with you.
(CROSSTALK)
GALANTER: Whether you`re drinking, smoking pot or anything else.
GRACE: Many, many years ago, it became accepted that there were other types of weapons, other than guns or knives. Weapons like fists. Weapons like a broom, or a bat. A Louisville slugger. Weapons like a car. And in this case, Jeff Gold, isn`t it true, it was not just bad parenting. It was a series of decisions to leave the child strapped alone in the car, to shut the car doors, and shut the windows, to, then, stand outside, smoke pot for over an hour. Jeff? I mean, it`s a series of decisions that lead to death.
JEFF GOLD, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Look, of course we agree this is horrendous. The fact that he was smoking pot is not a defense. In fact, it just goes the opposite way. It makes it worse. It just doesn`t make it murder and it doesn`t make it to death penalty. It`s a horrible, terrible thing. He`s going to be convicted of manslaughter, he`s going to go to prison for it. The question is, did this dad intentionally kill his son? The answer is no. It`s a horrible, terrible thing, the fact that he`s smoking makes it very bad, I agree with that. But it`s not a death penalty case.
GRACE: Actually, what the law looks for, Sheryl McCollum, is the intent to do the act. Where is Sheryl? Why can`t I see Sheryl McCollum? What I mean by that, Sheryl, is did you intend to hold the gun, raise the gun and pull the trigger? I could say, oh, I just meant to scare you, Sheryl. I didn`t mean to kill you. The law does not look for intent to kill. The law -- not me, not you, not Gold, not Galanter.
SHERYL MCCOLLUM: Correct.
GRACE: The law looks for intent to do the act, and then the law presumes that you intend the natural consequence of your acts. If I throw down a piece of fine china onto the cement floor, then the law can assume I meant to break it. You lock your child into a car, it`s 108 in Arizona, it gets to be 120, for Pete`s sake. How do people live there? I don`t know. But they do. You roll up the windows, you leave your baby in there. Did you intend to do that act that resulted in the death of this child? That is what the law looks for, does it not?
MCCOLLUM: It absolutely does. Not only that, Nancy, every decision he made that day was criminal. He didn`t have a license to even be in the car, because he had already lost it from the aggravated DUI. He stopped somewhere and obtained an illegal substance. Then he smoked it, another crime. Then he leaves an infant, helpless, in a car, that is locked with the windows rolled up while he stood outside, so he knew good and well how hot it was, because he was standing in the heat, and then leaves the baby to go back into the restaurant, I`m assuming, with, you know, the munchies now. He`s got to go get something to eat. He comes back out. Lo and behold, the baby has died.
Here`s the public service announcement, ladies. When you have a baby with a 31-year-old drug addict, the baby`s life`s in danger.
GRACE: Well put. Greg Cason, psychologist, weigh in.
GREG CASON, PSYCHOLOGIST: I can`t help but agree with that. He`s 31 years old and he`s lived a life full of pot and all kinds of problems with the law. This guy needed not to be a father in the first place. Since he did make that decision, the wife needed to take the child out of his hands. He was doing something illegal. He put a child in danger. He`s absolutely culpable.
GRACE: To Jill Ryan, news anchor with News Talk 92.3, KTAR, Jill Ryan, what do you know about the case?
JILL RYAN, KTAR: Nancy, a couple of different things. We really don`t know exactly what happened. We know what the end result was, but there are a couple of different stories. One of them is that he, that Daniel Gray, never even remembered his baby at all, that he went outside to get some paperwork, that he was smoking earlier by the car, not even thinking that the baby was inside. Then he went out to get paperwork, and that`s when he found the baby. So he panicked. We do know this, regardless of how he ended up there at the car, when he found this baby in this hot car, he panicked. He grabbed the baby, was fanning the baby, ran frantically into the bar. Put the baby on a food cart in the cooler, and someone else called 911 while he tried to administer first-aid.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was my everything. I loved being a mommy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His mother, Rebecca Hillery, says words can`t describe what she is feeling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was a very happy boy. He was such a good boy. As soon as he learned to smile, that`s all he did. He just loved to smile and play and bounce.
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GRACE: We are taking your calls. This 3-month-old baby boy did not have to die. His father, a 31-year-old, leaves him in the car, locked up. Arizona, 107 degrees. While the baby`s body got hotter and hotter and hotter until the baby baked to death. Also on the story, Matt Zarrell, what do you know?
ZARRELL: Nancy, when police arrived, they got a shocking discovery. They got inside the bar/restaurant and they saw the baby on top of a small wheeled cart like a food cart. The baby was gray, and he was lifeless.
GRACE: Jill Ryan joining me, news anchor with News Talk 92.3 KTAR. I`m looking at this guy`s rap sheet. And there were more offenses than I even had time to go over, many of them dealing with marijuana.
RYAN: Yes. I mean, he`s got possession of marijuana, aggravated DUI, driving with a suspended license, reckless driving, and even false reporting. This is a 31-year-old guy, who, it`s not even noon, and he`s smoking pot, while his infant son is in the back seat of his car baking, and the mom is at home resting, she`s trying to get a nap. She`s a new mom, Rebecca Hillery, she`s trying to get adjusted to everything, thinks everything is fine, the baby is safe. That`s not how it turned out.
GRACE: Let me ask you this, Jill Ryan. He`s arrested. He let the baby die in the car. He`s out smoking pot. My question is, do you believe that prosecutors will up the charges?
RYAN: I think that everybody in this community is just about as angry as they can possibly be over this story. You know, we`re all trained to try to deliver just the facts and keep our opinions out of it. I think everybody, from the police officers (inaudible), from the D.A.`s office, everybody, this is really tugging at everyone`s heartstrings.
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GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Sergeant Mark Simpson, 40, Peoria. Parents George and Carol, one brother, three sisters. Widow Aletha, three daughters. Mark Simpson. American hero.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible) say anything?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not at this time. I`ve just appointed an attorney to represent you. The microphone records everything you say, so it may be best for you to talk to your attorney before you make any comments about the underlying facts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Step right over here. She`ll tell you where (ph) to sign, sir. Thank you.
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GRACE: Back to Jill Ryan, news anchor with News Talk 92.3. Jill, you mentioned that when he did go back to the car, it was not to get his baby. It was to get some type of paperwork?
RYAN: Well, there`s a couple of different versions. We don`t know exactly what happened. We`re still getting the details. One version is that he never remembered the baby at all, and that he actually went out to his car from the building, the bar where he was, to get some paperwork that he needed for work. That`s when he found the baby. Another version is that he was out there, and at the end of this, right up until around the noon, the noon hour, that he was smoking with a co-worker, and then they saw the baby in the car, or noticed the baby at some point in time after they`d been out there for a while.
GRACE: Dr. William Morrone, medical examiner, Madison Heights. What did the baby experience before his death?
MORRONE: Part of the death is heat stroke, which is tremendous pain all over the body, but another part is suffocation. That baby could not get enough oxygen, and the temperatures on the inside of that car were close to 140 to 150, if it was only 105. Not being able to escape pain. Not -- and not experiencing any relief. It`s terrible.
GRACE: Tonight, our thoughts and prayers with the family of baby Jamison.
Everyone, as we go to break, a special good night from our Wisconsin friends, Doug and Mandy, here visiting me on the set. Hi, guys. Want to give us a big wave? Yes. You. Uh-huh. Doug and Mandy. Thanks for visiting us.
And happy birthday to one of the coolest people I know, Donna, married to Steve. Mother of twins Zach and Nick.
Everyone, Dr. Drew is up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night. 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
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