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Nancy Grace

Mother Burns 2-Year-Old`s Remains in a Barrel

Aired September 12, 2013 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VERONICA HERRERA, MOTHER: I picked her up, and I knew she wasn`t alive! I remember I started screaming and crying and holding her and telling her to please wake up. So that is when I decided to do what I did.

I realize all I did was make myself look guilty! I just want everybody to know I am so sorry for what I did. I really don`t know how to explain my actions. All I know is at that time (INAUDIBLE) I love all my kids so much, and I know as a mother, it is my responsibility to take care of her.

I know I should have called for help when I saw that she was not alive. I want everyone to know I would not hurt her or do anything to cause her to die. She`s my little girl. I love her so much, no matter what anybody says. I am so sorry. (INAUDIBLE) I don`t know why I freaked out and made things worse. But one thing I do know, she is with God!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Breaking news tonight, to the heartland. After 2-year-old Nakita goes missing while Daddy is out at work fighting wildfires, bombshell tonight, investigators doing a routine search of the home don`t expect to find anything, but suddenly do find a barrel of burned debris and trash, including bone fragments.

Bombshell tonight. Did 29-year-old Veronica murder her 2-year-old little girl, then burn the evidence in her own back yard, the evidence her baby girl, even getting the other children to pile trash, throw trash on top of her dead child, forcing the siblings, the other little children to help burn their own little sister`s body, then after, grind up the baby`s bones? Sounds like a one-way ticket to hell, Mommy!

We are live and taking your calls. I`ve never heard -- out of all my years prosecuting child homicides, covering child homicides -- heard of a mother burning her child`s remains, her 2-year-old little girl`s remains in her own back yard!

She apparently burned the remains for days on end. And to keep the fire from going out, she continued throwing trash onto the body, continuing to make her own children, the siblings, go burn their own little sister, the 9-year-old brother now apparently having horrible adverse reactions to his little sister`s tragic death. He was there. He`s old enough to know what happened, who was at the bottom of the barrel where he was throwing trash on top. Acting out, he can`t be kept under control.

Again, we are taking your calls. I want to go out to Brett Larson, investigative reporter. Brett, I`ve never heard anything like it.

BRETT LARSON, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Nancy, this is the most horrific thing that I think we`ve ever talked about. It makes your stomach -- it literally makes you almost physically ill when you hear the details about what this woman did to her own child, her own 2-year-old defenseless child.

You know, she says, Oh, she fell off the potty and hit her head, and then I freaked out and wrapped her in a blankets, left her in the back of her van overnight, and then the next morning, puts her in a barrel, goes and buys lighter fluid, sets the baby on fire, and then does this over the next two days, as you said, throwing trash on there, only to realize -- after all of that, the second day to realize she needs more lighter fluid so she can continue to burn her own -- it just -- it makes you sick to your stomach. It`s disgusting and despicable, what she`s done.

GRACE: You know, I was thinking, Brett Larson, my son, John David, has had a limp. I have looked at his foot 100 times, trying to figure out, does he have a blister, did he get a cut, has he got a broken toe? I can`t get my head around putting your child`s body -- first of all, if the child died by accident or naturally, you call 911.

LARSON: Right.

GRACE: Why would you put your child`s body in a barrel in the back of the yard and burn the child`s remains for over two days? Why?

LARSON: Well, she claims she panicked because she was afraid she would have her kids taken away from her again, which...

GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Wait! Stop!

LARSON: Yes.

GRACE: Matt Zarrell, did I just hear the word "again,"? She was afraid she`d have her children taken away again? Is he correct?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, he is correct.

GRACE: Explain.

ZARRELL: OK, what happened was is that Nakita was taken away from Herrera when he -- when she was born because she tested positive for meth. The baby...

GRACE: Whoa!

ZARRELL: ... was given...

GRACE: The baby tested positive for methamphetamine?

ZARRELL: Correct.

GRACE: Go ahead.

ZARRELL: So what happened was is about 10 months later -- and keep in mind, Nancy, she has other children. She`s got five other kids. She lost custody of all of the children as a result of this.

GRACE: Am I supposed to be upset?

ZARRELL: No, my point is...

GRACE: She lost custody of all her children because of this. Good! I`m glad she lost custody of all her children! But my question is, you`re saying the children were taken away from her before, and they were given back?

ZARRELL: Yes. The children were taken away after Nakita was born for about 10 months, and then Herrera was able to get the child back -- and the rest of the children, I should add.

GRACE: Why? Why did family children`s services give the children back to murder mom?

ZARRELL: We`re still trying to work out a statement from CPS, Nancy. But I can tell you that Herrera`s mother said that Herrera did all the programs, she got off drugs and she wanted to take care of her children. And she was -- Herrera`s mother claims that Herrera was doing a good job.

GRACE: Why -- why are you even saying that and wasting air time saying that her mother said she was doing a good job? Matt, she burned her baby`s remains in the back yard! She would stir the remains with a stick, Matt! And you just said, Well, So-and-So said she was doing a good job as a mother.

ZARRELL: Well, I`m just showing, Nancy, that the family was blind to what was going on, that all of this was going on in the home. We`ve got past allegations of abuse against a child. And yet the family says that the mother was doing a good job. So obviously, no one knew what was going on in that home.

GRACE: You know, I`m just thinking -- out to you, John Funk, crime reporter with "The Idaho Press-Tribune."

JOHN FUNK, "IDAHO PRESS-TRIBUNE" (via telephone): Good evening.

GRACE: I`m just thinking about this little girl. She`s 2 years old. I don`t know if you have children. But at 2, they`re about that big.

And I saw as a prosecutor for over a decade that there were some parents that would just abuse all their children. But for the most part, parents would target a child. And apparently, it was this 2-year-old little girl, who did not understand what was going on around her but was repeatedly abused. I`m just trying to figure out what this child endured, John Funk, before she was murdered and her little body was burned in a barrel in the back yard!

What do we know about her short life, John?

FUNK: Well, my information, of course, is all second-hand, but according to authorities, what we heard was that -- that at a summer event -- there was incident where at a summer event, she was -- her mother had her dressed in a long-sleeved sweater that seemed inappropriate for that time of year. And some of the members of the family thought that maybe they were trying to cover up bruises or burns.

There were reports of her finger being burned so badly that it was almost down to the bone, that the tips of the fingers were missing. I guess none of this evidence exists now at this point, obviously. But yes, there were -- there were definitely some allegations of abuse prior to Nakita`s death.

GRACE: Joining me right now is a special guest. It`s Sergeant Robert Boone with the Idaho State Police. Sergeant, thank you so much for being with us.

SGT. ROBERT BOONE, IDAHO STATE POLICE (via telephone): Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: You know, Sergeant, the police can only do so much. If they don`t know, they don`t get a report about what`s going on behind closed doors, you, under our constitution, can`t break down a door and see if a child is being mistreated. There`s nothing you can do about that.

Tell me what you believe happened to Nakita.

BOONE: Well, I believe that Nakita, from the time she was returned back to the home, was physically, emotionally abused. And ultimately, the child, under the care of -- or lack of care of her mother, died. The manner in which she died, I don`t have the evidence to tell you.

GRACE: When police found the I guess barrel or trash bin in the back yard, what exactly was it that alerted them? What did they see?

BOONE: Well, initially, when we saw the barrel, I expected -- I expected to find unburned remains of the child in there. We`d been told that the child had been burned. And when I initially saw it, I thought, God, she got rid of the body because there was so little there that I didn`t know whether we actually had that until we started sifting through and finding the bone fragments.

GRACE: I just wonder what that child went through every single day of her life, Sergeant Boone. What are the allegations of how the child was treated? What do we know about prior mistreatment before the child was killed?

BOONE: Well, we know from neighbors that they didn`t even know the child existed. Many of them knew the other children but didn`t know of our victim, Nakita. And we know that she had suffered some physical abuse just from the photographs and the statements from other family members that were pretty indicative of an abusive family life.

GRACE: Did other family members report it?

BOONE: They were not -- these reports did not make it to the Department of Health and Welfare, to law enforcement. No, ma`am, they did not.

GRACE: Well, when you say they reported it, who did they report it to?

BOONE: Well, their reports were after the fact...

GRACE: Oh!

BOONE: ... and came out during the investigation itself.

GRACE: So relatives and family members knew this baby was being abused and nobody did anything? They just stood by and let it happen?

BOONE: Well, in some defense of the family, they really worked diligently at trying to get the mother to give Nakita up to them to raise the child. Their fear was that Nakita was unloved by the mother, and they wanted to take over and raise the child, but they didn`t go through legal channels to do so.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is so traumatic. This is so horrifying. You`d never in your life think that this would happen to somebody that has been in your house.

HERRERA: I just want everybody to know I am so sorry for what I did! I really don`t know how to explain my actions. All I know is at that time, I did not want to (INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: This child is dead. This 2-year-old little girl, Nakita -- she lived a life of abuse and mistreatment at the hands of her own mother, Veronica. But it only came to light when police began an investigation to find the little girl. And they found her, all right, her remains. She had been burned over a period of days, her remains in a barrel, in her own back yard. And murder mom forces the other children to put trash in the barrel to keep the fire burning, to burn the remains of their little sister.

Back out to Matt Zarrell. Matt, when police first became suspicious and they confronted the mother, they find the remains, what is her story about how her little 2-year-old girl dies?

ZARRELL: What Herrera says is that Nakita was being potty trained, that she was on the potty chair, and that she, Nakita, was trying to throw herself off the potty chair, was able to throw herself off the potty chair and hit her head on the heater. And the mother pointed to the left side of her head, about the middle, just past the ear, as the location where Nakita hit her head.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to James in Montana. Hi, James. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is my question. This is what I just don`t get. How did no one know that she was burning a body? I mean, like, this mom, I think, basically turned herself in, but she was, like, burning a body for days. I mean, wouldn`t there be an odor?

GRACE: What about it John Funk, joining me there, crime and courts reporter with "The Idaho Press-Tribune"? She burned the remains for days on end in the back yard. Nobody noticed?

FUNK: Well, it`s a pretty isolated area out there. It`s in Homedale, Idaho. It`s kind of a small town. I haven`t been out to that property myself. I don`t know how close the nearest neighbors are. I honestly don`t even know what that smells like, so I don`t know -- if I were to smell it, I don`t even know if it would register.

GRACE: Sergeant Robert Boone is with us, with the Idaho State Police, joining me there. Sergeant, none of the neighbors noticed anything? I mean, she`s got a fire going in the back yard in a barrel for two days, and a kid`s missing.

BOONE: Well, the neighbors did notice. They said the flames were quite high coming out of that barrel. And it did put off an odor that was not indicative of garbage. But no one identified that as the smell of burning human flesh.

GRACE: You know, I`m just trying to take it in, and I`m looking at this child. Unleash the lawyers. Out to you, Peter Odom. What is the possible defense for this mom?

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The first thing that I would look at with something like this, Nancy, is some kind of a mental defense, do an assessment of her, have her be evaluated. I mean, this is such outrageous behavior, such cruel behavior, that that`s the first thing you`d want to look at. Clearly...

GRACE: Can I ask you a question, in good faith? It`s not to attack you Peter -- in good faith. The fact that she completely lied about it, and now she`s come up with this cockamamie story about how the child threw herself off her potty? I mean, a child`s training potty is, like, six inches off the ground.

PETER ODOM: Right, and we`ve all heard of...

GRACE: So she`s supposed to fall...

PETER ODOM: ... a killer couch -- we`ve all heard of a killer couch where kids fall off a couch and get hurt. And we`re always suspicious...

GRACE: No, actually...

PETER ODOM: ... of those stories.

GRACE: No, we haven`t. Just so you know, Peter, Arnall and I have discussed this extensively. It`s one -- less than one in a million likelihood that a child can fall off a commode and die.

PETER ODOM: I appreciate that, Nancy. And I mean, I`m a former child abuse prosecutor. I`ve handled many of these cases.

GRACE: You have?

PETER ODOM: Yes.

GRACE: How many cases have you handled where the child falls off the commode and dies?

PETER ODOM: Zero. But I`ve handled...

GRACE: OK, I thought you just said many.

PETER ODOM: ... many cases where there`s a claim that a child has. I`ve handled many...

GRACE: Fallen off a commode...

PETER ODOM: ... abuse cases. No, I`ve never...

GRACE: ... and died?

PETER ODOM: ... handled a case where a child has fallen off a commode.

GRACE: So after a little questioning...

PETER ODOM: But the point is...

GRACE: ... it`s gone from many to zero.

PETER ODOM: Nancy -- Nancy...

GRACE: What?

PETER ODOM: ... I hope that you would appreciate that, as a defense attorney, approaching a case like this is very delicate and extremely difficult with graphic facts like this. What I`m telling you is that the first thing you would want to look at is some kind of a mental defense. You would want to look at exactly what evidence the police have. Clearly, the police here are not going to be able to show exactly how the child died.

GRACE: OK, so so far, I understand that you need to review the evidence. And you said that so eloquently. Michael Arnall, are you there now?

DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): I`m here.

GRACE: OK. Dr. Arnall, thank God we got your sat back. Arnall, how likely is it that a child can fall off the commode and die?

ARNALL: Off this little child commode, quite unlikely. There is a literature on short falls. This is -- although, this is perhaps the shortest fall I`ve ever heard of. And you would have to interpret this fall in the light of the other problems that this child had prior to this event, the weight loss while in the custody of this mother, unexplained burns and other bruises. You`d have to consider those when contemplating the possibility that this is a battered child syndrome.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Welcome back. Did a mother murder and burn her child`s remains in the back yard for a series of days, even forcing the siblings to throw trash into the barrel to keep the fire going?

Matt Zarrell, her story is that the child falls off the commode, hits her head and dies. There was another story she told, right, hits her head and then she leaves the child alone?

ZARRELL: Well, you know, this is the story. This is what she tells cops. She`s told cops that after the child hit her head, she left the child alone with the child`s 9-year-old son (sic) and takes the rest of the children to her sister`s house, and then calls the 9-year-old son to check in and see how the 2-year-old is doing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HERRERA: I picked her up, and I knew she wasn`t alive! I remember (INAUDIBLE) started screaming and crying, and holding her and telling her to please wake up, so that is when I decided to do what I did. I realize all I did was make myself look guilty!

I didn`t want everybody to know. I am so sorry for what I did, I really don`t know how to explain my actions. All I know is, at the time, I used to (INAUDIBLE) my kids. I love all my kids so much. And I know, as a mother, that it is my responsibility to take care of her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Burning her child`s remains in the back yard in a barrel over a series of days, even forcing the siblings to help burn their little sister`s body.

Out to Brett Larson, investigative reporter. How are the children, specifically the 9-year-old brother that was forced to help burn his little sister`s remains?

LARSON: These kids, Nancy, are traumatized, and they`re probably going to be for life. I mean, we`ve heard that they`ve had some psychological intervention. And I just -- I feel like this 9-year-old is probably not going to bounce back from this. But, you know, these are also kids who were -- as we mentioned earlier, were taken away from their mother at one point so they`re all going to have some mental problems going forward with this.

GRACE: Matt Zarrell, what do we know about how the siblings are reacting?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: OK, Nancy. It`s our understanding that one of Herrera`s sons who was the boy, who was watching Nikita and taking care of her, has become depressed, aggressive and destructive since Nikita`s death. One of the daughters allegedly live in a fantasy world, unable to cope with reality. All of the children are still speaking with counselors at this time.

GRACE: One of the little girls, the sisters, did you say is living in a, what, fantasy world?

ZARRELL: Yes. That`s what -- that`s what the reports are. That she`s living in a fantasy world, she`s unable to cope with reality and what`s happened.

GRACE: Caryn Stark, psychologist and friend. This is almost too much for me to even take in, what this little girl, what her life was. I mean, being abused as an adult is bad enough. But imagine as a 2-year-old little girl, to see an adult repeatedly coming at you every day. Beating you, burning you. Part of her finger was gone, apparently from burns, that she -- where she had been mistreated before.

Your whole life that way. I mean, this little child was still in diapers, Caryn Stark.

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Nancy, it is heartbreaking and so hard to believe that the children were returned to her. It`s hard to understand why, but I want to tell you something about this kind of abuse.

Very often a parent will pick one child and that the child they abuse, not the others. And usually it`s because there`s something in this child that reminds them of themselves. Believe it or not, Nancy. Something that they don`t like about themselves, a vulnerability, a sensitivity, that they see in the child. And that`s the child they pick on.

And so that`s what you see in many of these cases that the rest of the children are not abused. The way this one child is like, Lisa Steinberg, in the Joel Steinberg case.

GRACE: I want to go to Eleanor Odom. I often tell you that Eleanor is death penalty qualified prosecutor but she actually has a specialty, a niche, and that is crimes on children. Eleanor is also a mother, a mother of a girl that she has raised into adulthood.

Eleanor, I don`t know if you can even remember when your child was just 2 years old. What I don`t understand right now is why the world is not screaming for the death penalty on this mother?

ELEANOR ODOM, FELONY PROSECUTOR, DEATH PENALTY QUALIFIED: Nancy, I think that you just hit the nail on the head. So often these cases aren`t in the media because they`re too ugly. People don`t want to hear them. The news doesn`t want to show them. So people don`t realize that this is happening all the time in our own very backyards.

I just tried a case a couple of months ago. Abusive head trauma on a 2-year-old. And what I think about this mother, and I don`t even want to call her a mother. But what I think about her is there`s a colonel of truth in what she told the cops. And I think that she either shook her child or slammed her child`s head on to some hard object. And it was the abusive head trauma that probably killed her.

GRACE: Sometimes when I`m reading these reports, I`m looking at pictures and I`m talking to witnesses, I can hardly take it in.

Let`s see what the callers have to say. Joanne, Illinois. Hi, Joanna. What`s your question, dear?

JOANNA, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Hi, Nancy. My question is, do you believe the mother`s story? And do you really think she should be raising other children?

GRACE: Joanne, no. I don`t believe the mother`s story. I think that she beat this child to death. I think she burned her again. There are even reports that this child had been repeatedly burned to the point, part of her finger was missing, it had been burned off, Joanne in Illinois.

I think she systematically targeted and beat and mistreated this child. And that the father was gone away working and didn`t realize the extent of what was going on at home. And that the children were too afraid to say anything.

That is what I think happened. And you know what else I think, Joanne in Illinois? I think we should abolish DFACS, Child Protective Services, and start over. And I think that whoever was involved in this case with Child Protective Services, should be prosecuted criminally, because I think they have this child`s blood on their hands. They handed this child back over to the mother to die.

They knew she couldn`t take care of this child. She had just given birth to another child two weeks before this murder. And they handed her over on a silver platter to die.

And you know what else? The family and the relatives are part of it, too. They stood by and let this happen. And when you stand by and let evil exist, you are part of it.

That`s what I think, Joanne in Illinois.

Out to the lines, Derek in Kentucky. Hi, Derek, what`s your question?

DEREK, CALLER FROM KENTUCKY: Did I just hear the cops say that neighbors didn`t even know that this baby existed?

GRACE: Let`s go back to Sergeant Robert Boone, Idaho State Police, joining us tonight. Part of this investigation.

Is that true, Sergeant?

SGT. ROBERT BOONE, IDAHO STATE POLICE: Yes, ma`am, there were several neighbors that did not -- did not know that Nikita even lived at the house.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A candle now flickers in a makeshift memorial set up by friends and family in the midst of a horrific scene.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police say a mother killed her child then had her other children help burn her 2-year-old daughter`s remains in a barrel.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Family and friends say Nikita was loved by many.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know I should have called her up. I saw that she was not alone. I want everyone to know I would not hurt her or do anything to cause her to die. She is my little girl. I love her so much. No matter what anybody says. I am so sorry for her not getting help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: You know, sometimes the evidence is overwhelming in a case like this and too often when children are infants are the victims of crime. Those cases seem to be pled down to lower offenses and shockingly in this case the mother has been allowed to plead to manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter. Not murder two, not voluntary manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter.

Can we stop showing the mother for one moment? I want to see the little girl, Nikita. This little 2-year-old girl, look at her, she`s looking at you right now. She was systematically beaten and burned. Until she was ultimately murdered. Her mother, the one that God gave her to protect her, her single most powerful, her strongest advocate, the one that loves her more than anything in the world, that would die before she would allow this child to be hurt. Her mother is the abuser.

Her mother killed her. Then put her remains in a barrel in the backyard and burned them for two days. Even making the other children help burn their sister`s body. And she has been allowed to plea to involuntary manslaughter.

Eleanor Odom, what is involuntary manslaughter?

E. ODOM: Usually you`re doing a legal act in an unlawful manner or committing a misdemeanor that results in a death. So I`m assuming with this, she did some type -- they`re claiming that she did some type of misdemeanor that results in a death. And Nancy --

GRACE: A misdemeanor?

E. ODOM: Right.

GRACE: Misdemeanor.

E. ODOM: Right. And, Nancy, you know why this often happens? Why these cases are pled down? Because child homicides are some of the hardest to prosecute. Because child homicides happen in ways that aren`t really obvious. You know, if somebody is killed by a gunshot wound you or I could look at it and go, oh, they were killed by a gunshot. Well, with child homicides, it`s often abusive head trauma. Maybe suffocation.

Ways that you can`t look at a body, especially in this case when it`s been burned, and say, hey, I know immediately the cause of death. So it is more difficult to prosecute these cases.

GRACE: Well, you know what, Eleanor, I appreciate that, I really do. But by God, I would take it to a jury and let them be the ones to let murder mom go. It would not be on my hands that I took a cheap plea and let this murderer walk after what she did to a 2-year-old little girl. I mean, they want to give a not guilty, so be it, it`s tot mom Casey Anthony all over.

That`s on the jury. That`s on the prosecutor and the jury in that case. But I damn well would not let it be on me.

Out to you, Joelle in Texas. Hi, Joelle. What`s your question?

JOELLE, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Nancy, I am with you 150 percent. I need to know, what is her -- she was afraid of losing her kids, so what has she done? If they knew that, why didn`t they take the kids? What`s going with this? What`s her criminal background?

GRACE: What do you know, Matt Zarrell?

ZARRELL: Most of her criminal record that was not sealed is all stuff that is vehicle safety restraint, driving without privileges, stuff like that, but the cops told us, and documents reveal --

GRACE: Didn`t she had a vicious dog violation? So she`s got a vicious dog in the home, to top it all off? Vehicle safety restraint on one of her children, didn`t have it in a seat belt or a car seat? You know, the whole shebang. Again, another driver/passenger safety child under 4 not seat belted or with a car seat. I mean, there`s a series of not taking care of her children. Until they`re dead.

Matt? I`m talking to you.

ZARRELL: Yes, well -- our understanding here, Nancy, is that when she -- when the baby tested positive for meth, the baby and the rest of the children were immediately removed from the home. And then 10 months later, over the course of the mother -- I guess, going into treatment, getting involved in programs, CPS gave her custody of the children, gradually back. And introduced them into the home again.

GRACE: OK, well, right there, we know she`s a drug addict. I mean, you don`t take meth once. You take meth and you`re almost immediately addicted.

To Dr. Michael Arnall, board certified forensic pathologist, what exactly could we learn from those burned remains? I mean, look, if this child had died from an accident, you don`t go burn the child in a backyard in a barrel. You burn a human body to get rid of the evidence, because you did something wrong.

DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, BOARD CERTIFIED FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Right. All of the evidence and the skin concerning the bruises or contusions and burns, that`s all gone because of the incineration. However, an anthropologist did look at the bones and what they looked for was evidence of previous broken bones that were in the process of healing. But they found no evidence of previously broken bones.

GRACE: Well, weren`t the bones grinded down?

Brett Larson, investigative reporter, isn`t it true that she ground the bones down?

LARSON: Yes, after she goes through this multiday process of burning the body and throwing trash on it, and getting her kids involved in this -- in this burning body, she goes then and then stirs it up to make it all ground down. And it just turns into a powder, and it`s amazing that there was anything left by the time police showed up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Cops say an Idaho mother killed her child, and then had her other young children help her burn the child`s remains.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Same place a mother tells police she burned her toddler`s body. After a deadly accident she tried to cover up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: But there is more of this. I`m going to go to you this, Peter Odom. You`re claiming there should be some type of an insanity or mental defect defense. What about this, Peter? Mommy goes and take not only the child`s body, but she takes little Nikita`s clothes, all of her photos, the potty seat that she was using, the little child potty seat, she puts it all in the fire, everything that she could see that would remind her of her little 2-year-old girl, she burned it all.

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: OK. Is that a question?

GRACE: Yes. To me that says she`s not insane, she`s getting rid of evidence.

P. ODOM: Nancy, what I suggested was not that she is insane but that`s the first thing I`d look at as a defense attorney. Now knowing that she has pled guilty to involuntary manslaughter, I would make this comment. And you`re calling for the death penalty on this woman.

GRACE: Yes, I am.

P. ODOM: The prosecutors who -- the prosecutors who know this case best aren`t approaching this from an emotional perspective. They had to make a legal decision. They had to step back from these horrible facts and decided what they could prove. They knew that even though they might be able to disprove mom`s story about the killer toilet that they could not affirmatively prove how the child died.

And that no doubt had to result in this plea to involuntary manslaughter, which by the way in Idaho is a felony and she pled to substantial prison time. So that`s -- those are little legalities of it.

GRACE: Well, let me tell you this, Peter Odom. It`s not always about what you think you can approve in a court of law. It has to do, to a great part -- in great part with what you believe is the truth. It`s not just about like a chess game, like I can say this and he can say that, and I can put this on, they can say that back.

It`s not just as if it`s some strategic game, Peter. And I think Sgt. Robert Boone will agree with me, in the Idaho State Police Department. You have to follow your heart in these investigations. You have to do always what you think is right. Would you agree with that at least?

BOONE: Yes, Miami.

GRACE: I mean, in all of your years, Sergeant. All of your years, I know you`ve seen a lot, as have I. Things I wish I hadn`t seen. I wish I didn`t know about a lot of cases including this one. Have you ever heard of a mother burning her child`s remains in the backyard and forcing the siblings to help burn their sister`s body?

BOONE: No. This is a first for me.

GRACE: When you -- what is she like? What does she act like, Officer? What is he -- what is she saying? What`s her demeanor, Sergeant?

BOONE: Well, you know, we didn`t -- I didn`t have an opportunity to talk to her directly but we did listen to conversations that she had with her -- with her boyfriend in the jail. And she made a comment -- I mean, in the jail, that she never loved Nikita and she never wanted her to be happy.

GRACE: Did you say her boyfriend?

BOONE: Yes.

GRACE: I thought her husband was out fighting wildfires.

BOONE: Well, he`s not exactly her husband. But he`s -- I guess common law. I mean, they live together.

GRACE: Is that the same person as the boyfriend?

BOONE: Yes.

GRACE: So she tells him she never loved the child? Why wouldn`t she let CPS take the child then if she didn`t love it? Sergeant, why?

BOONE: Well, the story we got from the family was, is that Nikita` father, the boyfriend, or possibly the father was -- wouldn`t let her give the child up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Private 1st Class Devin Harris, just 24, Mesquite, Texas, Purple Heart, National Defense Service Medal. Parents, Tennyson and Felicia, three brothers, four sisters, including his twin, Ashley.

Devin Harris, American hero.

Tonight, congratulations to the big winners of our Labor Day best working mom contest. Michelle, Hope, Nicole, Kim and Margaret.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My mom is the best mom in the entire world because she raised me as a single parent. I love her so much and I definitely think that she deserves this award.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My mom is the best mom in America. A few months ago my dad had a heart attack. Since then she has to use his super powers to (INAUDIBLE) the house.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m a single mom, 32 years old. I have a 5- year-old son. I have raised my son for five years with no food stamps, no welfare, no Medicaid, no nothing. On one single parent`s income.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She has worked three jobs, the Cleveland County School System, the children`s clinic and selling Mary Kay to help with the family`s expenses.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The most amazing working mom in the entire world. She is the mother of nine girls and she is always there for us. She encourages us, she helps us, she supports us, and she unconditionally loves us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Michelle, Hope, Nicole, Kim and Margaret. The greatest working moms. You can find them on our Web site at HLN and @NancyGrace.com.

Dr. Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END