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Nancy Grace

Navy Yard Shooter`s History Raises Questions

Aired September 17, 2013 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chaos and fear in the nation`s capital after a gunman opens fire at the heavily secured Washington Navy Yard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Multiple shots fired. Multiple people down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The rampage now appearing to be the work of a lone gunman whom the FBI identified as 34-year-old Aaron Alexis, an IT contractor and former Navy reservist.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The deceased shooter, Aaron Alexis, acted alone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have an officer down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Alexis had legitimate access to the Navy Yard, and he utilized a valid pass to gain entry to the building.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just how fast he went around that corner and went into the building, you know, and the way he was dressed, he just -- he stuck out, you know, not like anybody that should have been there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Moments later, Aaron Alexis opened fire inside the building.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was multiple engagements with the suspect with multiple different agencies before the final shots were fired.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Breaking news tonight, live, D.C. D.C. massacre gunman Aaron Alexis enters the Navy Yard with a valid ID! Yes, even though he had been in trouble with the law multiple times and even showed signs of clinical depression and schizophrenia at the government VA hospital, he was still allowed access to the D.C. Navy Yard!

Thirty-four-year-old Alexis enters the D.C. Navy Yard, home to thousands of Navy personnel, dressed in drab military attire and packing, then opens fire in broad daylight, 13 dead.

Bombshell tonight. Thirty-four-year-old Alexis reportedly a Buddhist with a bad temper, a hair-trigger temper that lands him behind bars over and over. The Navy vet, obsessed with Thailand, goes there to learn the language, but spends his time chasing women, going to massage parlors and developing a crush on a Thai woman.

When she refuses to move back to the U.S. with him, he comes back alone, alone and angry, spending up to 16 hours a day playing violent video games and complaining. Add guns to that mix, and you`ve got a recipe for disaster.

We are live in D.C. Straight out to CNN correspondent Brian Todd. Brian, there was a lot of speculation last night, but now I`m learning he actually gets in with a valid ID, his ID?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That`s right, Nancy. He got in with a valid ID. He had legitimate access to the Navy Yard, according to the FBI.

What we`ve been told is -- this is from attorneys who help thousands of people get security clearances in this area. These two attorneys have told us that the process is as follows. A private firm does the background checks for some civilian contractors. That`s on behalf of the Office of Personnel Management from the U.S. government.

That firm reports their findings to that government agency, which then gives the findings to the Department of Defense. And one of those three layers is supposed to pick up things like three arrests and eight citings for misconduct in the Navy, and apparently, no one did, Nancy.

GRACE: You know, Brian, and it`s not just that. You`re correct, of course, Brian Todd. But in addition, the government hospital, the VA hospital, had treated him and said he showed signs of schizophrenia! There was one incident where he calls police claiming that three people are after him and he`s hearing voices out of his closet!

And he -- you know, Brian Todd, I worked in the courthouse for over a decade, all right? Every time I came in and showed my badge, they gave me the look. They looked me in the face. They look at the badge. They look at you up and down. I had to go through the metal detector every day and put my pocketbook through the metal detector every single day, even my trial prep materials through the metal detector. And I was glad of it.

How did this guy, who`s hearing voices in his bedroom closet, get in that building?

TODD: Well, Nancy, you know, aside from the issue that he had a valid ID, on some of these bases, if you show that ID and you`re driving in in your vehicle, you don`t necessarily have to have your vehicle checked. They used to have stickers for all these bases, going in with a special sticker that you`d have to flash, or you didn`t get in. But that apparently started to go away now, and you can show a valid ID and sometimes, they don`t check your ID.

I`ve been on a lot of bases, especially in this area of D.C. My wife is a government employee. When I`m by myself and I show my own driver`s license, they do check my vehicle and they check everything. When I`m with my wife and she shows her government ID, we don`t have a problem. We go right through.

So that`s a process that I`m sure is going to be reviewed, and the defense secretary, Chuck Hagel, has said he is going to order a system-wide review of this entire process, the physical security and the clearance issues at every Defense Department installation around the world.

GRACE: Let me see Brian Todd again -- CNN correspondent Brian Todd joining me there on the scene in Washington. You know, Brian, everything you said is absolutely accurate, as always. But you know what? I`m glad I`m not the one telling the families of the murder victims that it`s all under review. You know, I appreciate everything being under review, but there are 13 dead bodies.

This guy gets to come in the building, a government building, with a gun, not only with a gun, but having been treated at a government agency for schizophrenia! I mean, I`m overwhelmed. I`m overwhelmed how the right hand doesn`t know what the left hand is doing! And I guarantee you, Brian, when it`s all said and done, they`re not going to change anything. It`s going to be business as usual.

Isn`t it true, Brian, that there was a study just recently that shows they are actually cutting back on security to save money? Isn`t that true?

TODD: There is an office of inspector general report, Nancy, that says that because of some of the cutbacks, that the Navy might have compromised security in these places. But what we`re told by Pentagon officials and others is that that particular cutback didn`t affect the security of people like Aaron Alexis.

But we also have to say here that he had an arrest record. He was arrested three times, outside the military. He was arrested three times, two for gun-related violations, one for disorderly conduct. He had eight misconduct citations in the Navy.

Those things -- according to the attorneys we spoke with who help people get security clearances, those things should have been picked up. Now, with the arrests, he was not convicted, he was not even charged. But according to these attorneys, even an arrest without a charge, without a conviction should be picked up in the background check and should be grounds for not granting you that secret security clearance.

GRACE: You know, that`s just the tip of the iceberg. Also this guy apparently falls in love with Thailand -- I might just throw in there that`s the sex capital of the world -- to the point where he goes to Thailand on his own dime -- thank God I didn`t pay for that -- goes to Thailand to immerse himself in the language, to learn more about the culture, learn more about the language.

But Brian Todd, the whole time, he chases women, hangs out at massage parlors and falls in love with a Thai woman that refuses to come back to the U.S. with him.

TODD: Well, those incidents apparently did happen, and they speak to some of the inconsistencies here, Nancy. All of that`s going to be combed over by the FBI and others looking into this, just some of the inconsistencies in his background. I mean, you know, he`s apparently, according to some...

GRACE: What do you mean by inconsistencies?

TODD: ... of his friends back in -- well, according to some of his friends back in Ft. Worth, Texas, he was Buddhist. He was kind of a peace- loving guy. He worked at a restaurant there. He was -- he had designs to maybe have some kind of partnership in that restaurant, and he was...

GRACE: The Happy Bowl?

TODD: He was a good employee and he -- right. And he helped out with people there. He even helped mediate a dispute, apparently. According to our Ed Lavandera and some of his team`s reporting from down there, there was one incident where the owner had to kick a guy out and the owner really was kind of overmatched physically, and Aaron Alexis came over and kind of mitigated the situation, ended it peacefully.

You`ve got that account, but then you`ve got these other accounts, where he`s apparently hearing voices, he`s having trouble sleeping. He`s got these incidents of gun violence with a neighbor and with two -- there was a car belonging to some construction workers in Seattle where he fired two rounds into the tires.

GRACE: What?

TODD: These are all things that just don`t...

GRACE: OK, wait! Wait! Whoa! Whoa! Wait! Wait! Wait! wait! That -- that can`t all be true, OK? He can`t be a peace- loving Buddhist that likes to meditate and he`s shooting the tires out of a construction worker`s car, all right? Isn`t it true that he tried to blame that incident on 9/11, on September 11?

TODD: Well, he tried -- apparently, he was citing some of his trauma of being in New York during 9/11 for some of his problems. I`m not sure if that Seattle incident was connected to it or not. That incident came in 2004, where he perceived, apparently, that these construction workers or the people around them at that site were disrespecting him in some way. This is according to a police report in Seattle. And he was staring at these people several days, acting strangely. And then one day, he came out and fired two rounds into the tires of one of the cars...

GRACE: And this is the guy...

TODD: ... and was arrested for that...

GRACE: ... Brian Todd, that has a pass to get into the Navy Yard. This is the guy that they allowed to have a pass to get into the Navy Yard.

Out to you, Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analyst. I want to hear your take on this. You know, I don`t think you`re going to be even as kind as I`m being about it. The reality is, just like Brian Todd told us, he thought some construction workers -- he even didn`t know them -- were disrespecting him. Then he claims that he`s not getting a raise and he`s not getting advancement because he`s being discriminated against.

Bottom line, the reason he didn`t get a raise and advancement is because he sat on his rear end and played violent video games for up to 16 hours a day! That`s why he didn`t get a raise and a promotion!

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Nancy, when he was an active reservist, he was -- he had disorderly conduct, drunkenness, and a number of unexcused absences. The bottom line is he should not have had a security clearance, period. He should not have had a contractor badge to get into the Navy Yard.

Somebody dropped the ball. It`s (ph) the people who did the background checks, because, Nancy, if you`re arrested, I don`t care if you`re -- if you`re not -- if you`re not convicted. Still, when they look into your background, you`re going to see a date. You`re going to see a charge. And you`re going to see a disposition. If they didn`t see that, I don`t know where they were looking. To me...

GRACE: You know, and Mike -- Mike...

BROOKS: ... that`s BS!

GRACE: Mike, come on! You and I have worked the streets, you with the police, me as a prosecutor with police, and you know when you hear auditory hallucinations, you are, you know, one step away from a straightjacket, all right? You are truly ill, when you hear auditory hallucinations. That`s a step beyond visual hallucinations.

And this guy said three people were out to get him, hiding in his closet, and now we got 13 dead people. You know what, Brooks? I told you this. My little nephew, who I`m very proud of, honors grad, the works, is now working with the government in military contracting. He can`t even tell me what he`s working on.

Can I tell you what he -- this is an honor student -- what he had to go through, all the background checks, the resumes, the schools. They were calling people, trying to find out where he went to high school, for Pete`s sake.

And here`s this guy, somebody`s in his closet talking to him, threatening to kill him, and they let him have a pass? I just- I can`t accept that these people are dead! Whoever let him have that pass has blood on their hands, Mike Brooks!

BROOKS: I agree with you, Nancy. You know, and it was just on August 7th of this year when he was in Newport, Rhode Island. He said that he was hearing voices, that people were following him. He went from one hotel to another hotel.

Well, law enforcement there, they contacted the naval base in Newport, Rhode Island, because he access to that base, and that was on August 7th, 2013, Nancy, just a little time ago. And now we have this.

GRACE: And let me go to Brian Todd. Mike Brooks, don`t move anywhere. Brian Todd, CNN correspondent -- you know, Brian, he had also gotten involved in a temple, a Buddhist temple there in Texas, where they preach peace and love and getting along with everybody. He got so into it, he started living in a shed behind the temple.

Now, that`s where I`ve got a problem. You`ve got a guy living in a shed, all right, angry at the world, and he gets into the Navy Yard. Help me. Help me understand how he gets to get in with a pass and gun people down, a guy living in a shed behind a temple!

TODD: You know, Nancy, I think those are questions that the investigators are going to have, as well, as we have just been going over with you and I and Mike brooks. There are just several inconsistencies in his background that they have to look into. You`ve got the Buddhist temple angle.

You`ve got that weighed against these -- these gun violations, these disputes with a neighbor, you know, when he shot a hole through his own floor and blamed that on him cleaning -- just an accident where he cleaned his gun. So many inconsistencies here in his background, Nancy. You know, a peace-loving Buddhist who plays violent video games also doesn`t quite mesh.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Law enforcement officials say 34-year-old IT subcontractor Aaron Alexis entered Navy Yard building 197 legally, with a valid military-issued ID and an intent to kill.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Next thing I heard was five more shots.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s not possible. It`s not possible that they shot him for just for no reason. He loved his country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are our family members that we work with every day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The FBI says Alexis begins firing from a fourth floor balcony onto office workers in an atrium below using a semi-automatic rifle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We do now feel comfortable that we have the single and sole person responsible.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say 34-year-old Aaron Alexis shot and killed 12 people at the Washington Navy Yard. The question is why?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Well, my question is why they let him have a pass to get into the building to gun people down!

We are taking your calls. Mary in Virginia. Hi, Mary. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. This is Mary again from northern Virginia. And I`ve lived near D.C. all my life, and I have a comment and then a question. Well, my comment is that, you know, I lived through the D.C. sniper, that Langley Air Force Base shooting that happened several years ago.

My question is, is why don`t they have metal detectors? They have them here in Virginia in all schools. They have them at the airport. They have them at government centers, like, you know, things like Fairfax County government. They have them in the courts.

If they had had a couple or three, you know, metal detectors, at least he wouldn`t have gotten through because if he had the guns on him...

GRACE: Exactly. All right, Brian Todd, she`s right. We all lived through the D.C. sniper. That was when I was doing Larry King way back when in D.C. with a sniper running around. Why not a metal detector?

TODD: Well, Nancy, I can tell you that in most military bases, they do have metal detectors at these gates. They do. But what you can show is this. This is a standard military ID. This is for our photojournalist Skip Nociolo (ph), who is a retired Navy chief petty officer. This isn`t even a special clearance, by the way. This is not a high security clearance. This is a military ID. You show this, you get through.

GRACE: That`s all you`ve got to show?

TODD: And so that`s something...

GRACE: That`s it.

TODD: ... that`s going to be looked at.

GRACE: That. Do they -- they -- do you put it under -- how do they examine that? Do they compare your face to the card? What do they do? They certainly didn`t notice that he was packing, that he had guns on him!

TODD: They compare your face to the card. If you don`t have this, I`ve gotten into a military base showing my driver`s license only, without a military ID. Now, when you do that...

GRACE: Can you show what?

TODD: ... they do check your car if you`re not...

GRACE: Can you show your library card?

TODD: ... a military person.

GRACE: Can you show your Sam`s warehouse or your Costco card?

TODD: No, no, no. You...

GRACE: Will that get you in, too?

TODD: No. You`ve got to show a military ID or a special clearance. If you do not show that, they will check your vehicle. They will do -- they will go under it with a mirror. They will check the trunk and every other door.

TODD: Oh, please, Brian! Brian! Brian, you know how I respect you, but come on! The guy had a gun. There are even reports he put it together once he got -- he assembled it there. I don`t see them looking under anybody`s car with a mirror!

TODD: That`s because he that special clearance, and he showed that special clearance. If you show a military ID or that kind of a clearance, very often on these military bases, you`re waved through.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. Joining me right now is a special guest, Bud Kennedy, who knew Aaron Alexis before he became the D.C. massacre shooter. He is a columnist with "The Fort Worth Star-Telegram." But thank you so much for being with us.

BUD KENNEDY, "FORT WORTH STAR-TELEGRAM" (via telephone): Hello. Good afternoon.

GRACE: Bud, what can you tell us? I know you have turned this over and over in your mind a million times since the shooting went down.

KENNEDY: Well, it was some of my co-workers here at the paper and I went to Happy Bowl and knew him as a server there. He -- you know, we knew right away that he wasn`t part of the family that owned it. And he seemed like a -- an odd guy to be a server, reserved, you know, quiet, and didn`t seem to know the menu very well. But he was studying Thai. He was studying the dishes. He was helping out, you know, serving and delivering in the restaurant.

You know, what the patrons there, my friends and I who go to the restaurant say that he came to know their families. He played with the children in the restaurant. He wasn`t outgoing, but he was cordial. And they miss him. They`ve been asking, you know, When`s Aaron coming back?

GRACE: But Bud, it`s so hard to reconcile that with 13 dead bodies. Do you know anything about him being obsessed with guns or frustrated with life?

KENNEDY: I talked to the owner of the restaurant yesterday. He said that he knew that Aaron had a gun. We know that he had the incident here where a gunshot went off through the ceiling of his apartment. You know, in Texas, it`s not unusual for a gunshot go off, for someone to be cleaning their gun. Police found there was oil on the gun. He probably was cleaning the gun and it went off.

You know, the owner of the restaurant said he just knew that he had the one gun. We don`t know anything about him having other -- other weapons while he was here. He did have the one gun with him when he did deliveries for the restaurant.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a scene that`s become all too familiar, reports of gunfire, panicked people rushing out of a building, countless stories of survival.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s kind of sobering. I mean, I -- I can`t fathom what drives people or what makes them do things like this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have confirmed 13 fatalities, to include the shooter, all of whom have been positively identified.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gunman entered building 197 of the Navy Yard with an active military contractor ID and security clearance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s no question he would have kept shooting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Just to say security clearance doesn`t say it all. Tonight, what we are learning about the 34-year-old shooter, Aaron Alexis, is just beyond belief. Very quickly, Clark Goldband, playing video games, violent video games up to 16 hours a day?

GOLDBAND: Yes, Nancy. According to reports we`ve been seeing, he`s gone on these so to speak video game benders, according to reports, sitting there and playing games, such as Call of Duty from 12:00 noon to 4:30 in the morning. People even bringing him food, Nancy.

GRACE: OK, Brian Todd, CNN correspondent, joining me there on the scene. Also with us there, Miranda Green with the Daily Beast and Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analyst.

You know, Brian Todd, I know you`re saying he had the correct clearance to get in, but it`s hard for me to reconcile that with what I know. How did he obtain the clearance and how often is it reviewed?

TODD: Nancy that is a question that at least three layers of the government are going to have to answer. People in those layers. The private contracting firm that actually did his background check, that presumably would have found three arrests and eight citings for misconduct and possibly some mental health issues. That`s one entity that should have caught this. Another is the office of personnel management, and another is the Department of Defense. There is a specific office within the Department of Defense that has the responsibility for issuing that clearance once it gets the information from those other two entities. So somebody, somewhere, dropped the ball on that. That`s according to attorneys that we`ve talked to, who help hundreds of people all the time get these security clearances. They say that with three layers of government entities that check your background, somebody, somewhere, should have caught it.

The arrests themselves, even without convictions, even without being charged, the arrests would have precluded him, would have prevented him, excuse me, from getting that clearances, according to these attorneys.

GRACE: You know what, Mike Brooks, everything he is saying, everything Todd is saying is correct, but I don`t trust the government is really going to do anything. Every time there is a big catastrophe like this, they say they`re going to have a study. They`re going to review everything. They`re not. They`re not going to do anything. They`re going to try to pacify all of us and tell us they did, but I guarantee you. Six months, eight months, one year from now it will be the same story at the Navy Yard, and at other places across this country. The same type of security.

BROOKS: Nancy -- I sure hope that they do tighten up the background checks when it comes to this. Look, I had a background check when I was assigned to the FBI joint terrorism task force. It was good for five years, but if I screwed up and I got locked up, the security officer at the Washington field office, they would have contacted somebody, and my security clearance would have been pulled. I would not have been able to get back into the Washington field office, period.

GRACE: You know what I`ve been thinking about, Mike Brooks. You know how we have the DNA and the fingerprint databank, AFUS (ph), and that works in the sense that all the government workers have to give their fingerprint there in there, along with all the convicted felons, and police pull that up. I`m just wondering if that`s not used in reverse for the government? When you authorize someone to have a pass? Because it doesn`t seem like they`re utilizing the data that they`ve got?

BROOKS: No, it doesn`t. They got his fingerprints because you have to give your fingerprints when you`re in the military, but, you know, the arrests are still there. Nancy, if they ran his fingerprints, and they pulled his fingerprint card up and they looked, they would have seen those arrests, period. And with those arrests, he should not, should not, under any circumstances, have gotten a secret security clearance. Period.

GRACE: You know, Brian Todd, CNN correspondent, joining me there on the scene with Mike Brooks and Miranda Green, let me ask you this -- how exactly did it go down? Did he take weapons from the security guards, did he shoot them first? Is it true that he actually assembled the weapon in the men`s bathroom inside the Navy Yard? I mean, what were his first steps? How did it go down?

TODD: Well, according to the FBI and the Washington, D.C. Police who briefed us this afternoon, he gained entrance into that building somehow. Not clear right now as to whether he shot his way in or he just got in. He entered with a shotgun. At some point, he may have acquired a handgun from someone else who was there, maybe it was someone who was down, someone he might have shot. But he walked in with one gun. We`re told it was a shotgun, and somehow he could have acquired another weapon. Possibly a handgun.

GRACE: Well, when he first came in, through one of the levels, I assume all the entrances are on the same level. Where did he go first? What do we know?

TODD: Well, he gained entrance -- most of these shootings, we`re told, took place on the third floor of that one building, building 197. He did gain entry to some kind of a hallway that was either adjoined to or next to an atrium. There was an atrium involved, where there were a lot of people gathered, apparently getting breakfast.

According to at least one account that I`ve heard, he had some kind of a vantage point with some height. I`m not sure whether he was on some kind of a balcony or a walkway looking down, but he had some kind of a vantage point of some height and may have fired down. But again, these are details we`re trying to piece together. This is really all not confirmed as of now, but he, most of the shootings we are told took place on the third floor of that building, and there was an atrium in the area where there was a fairly significant gathering of people.

GRACE: All of these people just coming into work. Out to the Daily Beast`s Miranda Green, also joining me in D.C., along with Brian Todd and Mike Brooks. Miranda, what are you learning? What are you gleaning about his movements?

MIRANDA GREEN, DAILY BEAST: Well, it seems he came in that morning. Early in the morning, 8:15 is when the first 911 call went out, and now that we know he had this security pass, he came in through the normal entrance to the Navy Yard, and what I know from talking to bystanders and people who came out of building 197 was that he easily could have bypassed the front entrance with the security guards. That is where the metal detector is, that is where guns would have been obvious or they would have gone (inaudible), they would have stopped him. Instead there was a side entrance that you can swipe through when you have a pass, and that is what many reports are saying he could have used to get in.

GRACE: Everyone, we are live and taking your calls.

To tonight`s Amber Alert. A frantic search right now for a 14-year- old girl in extreme danger. Snatched at gunpoint in her "Star Wars" P.J.`s from her family home in Atlanta. There in the suburbs, police now on the lookout for 14-year-old Ayvani Perez. Two suspects in a gray Dodge or a Chevy sedan. If you have information, please, call police. 678-610-4781.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a little dog in the house and it started barking. So the intruder shot the dog. Then demanded money and jewelry from the mother, at which time she didn`t have any money or jewelry, so she told them that, and so instead they kidnapped the 14-year-old girl.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard three shots. Pow, pow, pow.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard someone say, it`s a shooting, it`s a shooting, go, go, go!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just got gunshots, multiple gun shots, and someone yelled gun and we ran.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chaos. And just fear in Washington.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are choppers swarming all over the place. Police walking the perimeter with riot and S.W.A.T. team gear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fire alarm went off, we were trying to evacuate everybody. That`s when he got shot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As he came around the corner, he aimed his gun at us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go. Emergency exits now. Go, go, go.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yelling for everyone to get out of the building now, and that`s when we started moving.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He fired at least two or three shots.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. For those of you just joining us, what we are learning about the D.C. massacre shooter is mind-blowing. This guy has a government security access to the Navy Yard. He has multiple infractions with the law. A hair trigger temper that lands him behind bars repeatedly. He`s frustrated and angry that he`s not getting ahead in life and not being paid when he thinks he should be paid, but he spends up to 16 hours a day playing violent video games. Not only that, we learned he just gets back from a visit to Thailand, where he says he`s going to learn the language. Instead hanging out, chasing women at massage parlors, then falls in love with a Thai woman who refuses to move back to the States with him. Gee, I wonder why. He seeks enlightenment at a Buddhist temple in Texas, and then begins to live in a shed behind the temple. Becoming increasingly angry, we learn he visits the V.A. hospital, telling not only them but police that he hears voices coming out of his closet.

So when you`re in a government building, look around, because that may be who`s in the building with you. Wonder if he was hanging out there on Patpong (ph) Road there in Bangkok, the red light district. Again, Thailand, the capital of the sex trade in the world.

Straight out to Jean Casarez, HLN legal correspondent. What more are we learning today?

CASAREZ: Nancy, you just touched on this, but I think more detail is important. It was last month, when he was staying in hotels in the D.C. area and he was that subcontractor for the Navy, he flew from Virginia to Rhode Island to do work, and he called police that night saying that he had gotten in an argument with someone at the airport. That person had three people now following him, and they were talking to him so he couldn`t go to sleep. Microwaves were allowing him to hear these voices, and he wanted to report it.

And here`s the headline, Nancy. The police in Newport, Rhode Island, called the Navy base there to report what he had said to them, because they were so concerned he had a security clearance as a subcontractor.

GRACE: They called the Navy?

CASAREZ: They called the Navy, in Newport, Rhode Island, that`s where he was, that`s where he was working, and we don`t know at this point what happened from there.

GRACE: You know, this is deeply, deeply disappointing to all of us whose friends and family, my father is a Navy veteran, to hear this. That somewhere, somebody pushing paper dropped the ball and did not act on that report, Jean. I have not heard it laid out as succinctly as you just did.

We are taking your calls. To Kim in California. Hi, Kim. What your question?

CALLER: Well, my question goes back to Aaron Alexis, and if anyone has gone to his Texas apartment yet? And -- oh, God, this just horrifies me, what this man did, and I can`t believe he even got into that building with his past record of, you know, shooting off his other guns and that he even had, and --

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: I believe firmly, Kim in California, that police have gone back to his apartment building, where he lived in Texas. Clark Goldband, what do we know?

GOLDBAND: Nancy, here`s the thing. This guy according to reports was a transient, traveling all over the United States.

GRACE: Yes, I noticed that a lot of his infractions were all over the country. Some in Georgia. Problems in New York. Seattle. Texas.

GOLDBAND: That`s right.

GRACE: Rhode Island.

GOLDBAND: And don`t forget about the contracting over in Japan. So it`s really hard to pin down if he was still living in Texas. That`s unclear, investigators still looking into it, and, of course, you`ll remember, he shared a home in Texas for a long part of his stay with the owner of the Thai restaurant.

GRACE: The Happy Bowl. Yes. I`m familiar with that. Out to Commander Jim Liddy, retired Navy SEAL who worked at the Navy Yard. Commander Liddy, thank you so much for being with us. I`m in shock learning that the precautions, as to who gets those access cards, are so limited?

COMMANDER JIM LIDDY, (RET.), U.S. NAVY: Well, I agree with you, Nancy. Just listening to the other guests and the recent information that we`ve heard, a report to the Newport -- the Navy base in Newport, Rhode Island, that didn`t get transferred down to the contractor, where the base -- working with the base security. If that is the case, that`s another failure of the system.

What we`re seeing here as being revealed is multiple failures of the system. We knew we were in a heightened time right now, because of the recent anniversary of 9/11. These Navy bases should have been on higher alert, and I agree with many of your guests that metal detectors are necessary at certain facilities. Almost all the Navy bases have sensitive areas and buildings. Those should at the very least in high population should have the --

GRACE: Commander, what`s going to happen? What`s going to happen? Is this just going to go away and nobody does anything about it? That`s the Washington way?

LIDDY: That`s true, but I`ll tell you this. My time especially -- (inaudible), when something like this happened, the Navy will take this very, very seriously. There will be an office whose sole focus will be on how did this happen? Where did the breakdown come from? How do we fix it? The question is can you do it quickly enough--

GRACE: How do we fix it, you`re right, Commander. How do we fix it so it doesn`t happen again. I imagine you have in mind who would head such an investigation like that.

Unleash the lawyers. I have got a pretty good idea. Mike Gottlieb, Miami, Renee Rockwell, Atlanta, they are looking down the wrong end of a barrel, Mike Gottlieb, on a big lawsuit by all of these families, and yes, I know, the king can do no wrong. I understand the law. But this is grounds for a lawsuit.

MIKE GOTTLIEB, ATTORNEY: Yes. There`s absolutely a clear negligence action pending, but I think there is a systemic failure. You`re saying that here`s an individual that went to the V.A., was diagnosed with a major mental disorder. We haven`t heard about any treatment the government may have given him, yet the government is on notice that he`s acting in a peculiar manner, he has got auditory hallucinations, he probably doesn`t know right from wrong, does not appreciate the consequences of his actions, yet is passing clearance after clearance, even being complained about. There`s a clear gross negligence action here, Nancy, absolutely.

GRACE: You know, Renee Rockwell, we all know the theory of sovereign immunity, the king can do no wrong. Bottom line, it`s hard to sue the government, but you know what? There`s going to be a lawsuit. Somebody is going to pay, but they can never pay enough.

RENEE ROCKWELL, ATTORNEY: No, they can`t. Nancy, but remember the courthouse shootings in Atlanta?

GRACE: Yes, I do.

ROCKWELL: The county paid dearly. But Nancy, this is a guy that slipped through the cracks. And you`ve got to wonder, if we can put people on the moon, why not have realtime security? The minute that somebody blows the whistle on somebody, when he swipes his card, he should not have been able to enter at all, Nancy.

GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author. Bethany, when we say schizophrenia, I am just throwing that word around. I really learned about it when I was prosecuting, and I had several defendants that actually had schizophrenia. Can you explain the extent of full-blown schizophrenia?

DR. BETHANY MARSHALL: Nancy, I`m sorry, I do not see him as schizophrenic. I see him as having delusional disorder. Because he`s probably--

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: The V.A. hospital disagreed with you. So if you could just tell me what is schizophrenia?

MARSHALL: It`s auditory and visual hallucinations and delusions. It`s seeing things that are not there. It`s hearing things that are not there. Usually the content of the delusions is bizarre. Like, my stomach is missing or something like this. This guy had non-bizarre delusions, which is the belief that others are following him.

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GRACE: OK. Dr. Bethany, you`re on the record. Can I see Bethany please? You are on the record, you don`t think he`s got schizophrenia, got it.

Now, the VA hospital disagrees with you, and I`m not saying that you`re wrong, but when they call the Navy and say, we think he`s got schizophrenia, that should have been a huge, huge red bell of alarm. So when you`re saying, what is schizophrenia, I want you to break it down for me. That`s what the Navy should -- whether the VA`s right or wrong, is not my point. My point is, when they heard that, this guy cannot be coming in and out of the Navy Yard.

MARSHALL: Nancy, it`s not even just that, it`s the fact that he had any kind of psychotic disorder at all, and that, accompanied by the fact that he was enormously mobile. He was traveling all over the coast.

GRACE: Bethany, the last guy I had as a prosecutor with schizophrenia thought the devil was in his eyeball and kept trying to pull it out. This was after he had murdered his girlfriend and pulled both of her eyeballs out. That`s schizophrenia, Bethany.

MARSHALL: I`m just saying, Nancy, that he had all these other concomitant factors. The fact that he was getting more aggressive and more delusional, more agitated, calling the police. There was all kinds of other stuff that could have rung a bell too.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We remember American hero, Marine First Lieutenant William Donnelly IV, 27, Carlsbad, California. Purple Heart, two Global War on Terrorism Service Medals, parents William III and Vickie. Two sisters. Widow Lindsey (ph). William Donnelly IV, American hero.

Everyone, back to DC. To Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner, joining me out of Philadelphia. Dr. Manion, those victims did not all die instantly. They died knowing they were in their workplace, some of them in the cafeteria, some in the atrium, when suddenly their lives, these people`s lives, were cut short. What did they experience?

DR. BILL MANION, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, first of all, he used handguns, long guns and a shotgun. And the handguns have a lower velocity with the projectile, so it will take you longer to bleed out, depending on what organs are hit. A rifle projectile has a very high velocity and will do a lot more damage internally as the projectile travels through the body. It will cause a lot more injury than a projectile from a handgun, but certainly it`s pain, you`re bleeding out.

GRACE: So they suffered before they died.

Everyone, the investigation goes on. Tonight, our prayers with the family of James Randall "Randy" Brown. Milton, Florida, an ordained deacon, leaves behind mother Ruth, sister Ann, brother Greg, widow Betsy, son Jay. Daughter, Stephanie. Four grandchildren, one great- granddaughter. Randy Brown, good night, friend. Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Good night, friend.

END