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Nancy Grace

Missing Madeleine McCann Sighting; Mother Runs Over Boyfriend With Minivan; Report Susan Smith Lives it up in Prison

Aired October 07, 2013 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Baby Maddy McCann alive? Three-year-old Maddy snatched during a luxury resort vacation while her parents leaving baby Maddy and twin siblings in their hotel room alone.

Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, seemingly concrete evidence baby Maddy is alive. A lawyer comes forward to police to say baby Maddy is spotted alive and well.

And tonight, to upscale Pennsylvania suburbs, death by minivan. Police say a mother of two drops her two children with the baby-sitter, hops into her white Mercury minivan then runs down her live-in boyfriend. Tire marks still covering his dead body, then Mommy goes to the local bar for a brewsky.

And tonight, Susan Smith, the toddler-killing mom, has been caught paying off fellow inmates to play guard while she, Susan Smith, enjoys sex romps with prison girlfriends in cells, closets, even the jailhouse freezer. And to top it all off, she`s scamming money on line.

And tonight, live to Utah. An emergency 911 call from a doctor/lawyer after their 6-year-old girl comes home to find Mommy, just eight days out of a full face-lift, unconscious in the bathtub. The death ruled natural, but tonight, a full-fledged affair with a younger woman uncovered after the doctor brings the mistress home as the new nanny. The case tees up for trial in just days. Tonight, the defense fighting to keep the jury from hearing the real evidence.

Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. Baby Maddy McCann alive?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GERRY MCCANN, FATHER: We`re encouraged there is new evidence and (INAUDIBLE) hopefully lead to further new evidence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A witness has come forward claiming he was told Maddy was spotted alive on a Mediterranean island.

KATE MCCANN, MOTHER: There is a real possibility that Madeleine could still be found alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If people believe a missing child is dead, they`re not going to look for her or they`re not going to come forward with information which might be important.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This age progression at age 9...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We won`t accept Madeleine is dead until we see evidence, clear evidence, that that is the case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This evidence seemingly concrete, a very recent spotting of baby Maddy McCann. And remember, baby Madeleine has a very unique spot on one eye. She`s got -- if we can see that, Liz -- in one of her eyes -- the two eyes are different colors, to start with. One is green and one is blue. And she has a black spot on the iris of her eye. Take a look at baby Maddy McCann.

In the last days, a lawyer comes forward claiming that he knows baby Maddy has been spotted, that there has been a credible witness that has seen her alive and well.

Straight out to Matt Zarrell. Matt, what do we know?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): ... in just the last few weeks. This is a lawyer who the police believe is very credible. He was at a party in the northwest of England in August and said that a man came forward to him and said he just saw Madeleine alive on Mediterranean island.

GRACE: To Jerry Lawton, senior true crime correspondent with "The Daily Star." Jerry, police are taking this very, very seriously. Number one, this lawyer, who`s a prominent lawyer in the area, was so convinced of the witness`s credibility that he goes to police immediately the morning after he hears the story at the party. Is that true, Jerry?

JERRY LAWTON, "DAILY START" (via telephone): Well, that seems to be the case, Nancy. The simple situation is the lawyer, very experienced courtroom operator, sees a lot of legal cases, can make a value judgment on the credibility of a witness, and he made a value judgment here.

He was impressed, apparently, at the party by the amount of detail that the man that he was speaking to was giving about the child that he insisted was Madeleine. There was an element of bragging or boasting here that the lawyer started out thinking it was just a party conversation. As it went on, he got more and more concerned. And in the end, he said that he couldn`t live with himself if he didn`t pass this information on to the police, even though it could compromise him, obviously, as lawyer.

GRACE: Everyone, take a look at this age-progression shot. Bombshell tonight. Baby Maddy McCann alive. Credible sources say she has been spotted alive and well. Not only that, Matt Zarrell, police are honing down the possibilities of why she`s being held -- number one, that a couple is raising her as their own child. This would suggest a private adoption occurred after she was kidnapped. Two, that there`s a pedophile sex ring. And three, what`s the third alternative, Matt Zarrell?

ZARRELL: Nancy, the third alternative theory is that she was taken after disturbing burglars who were in the middle of robbing the family apartment.

GRACE: And also, in addition to this story, we also know that Scotland Yard has made a public announcement that they believe there`s a chance Maddy could still be alive.

Not only that, new cell phone evidence. You know, this is very interesting. Out to you, Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert joining me out of Raleigh. Ben, apparently, this was never done, but there is a process by which police can get all the active cell phones that are working within a certain area at any given time. Is that true, Ben?

BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EVIDENCE (via telephone) Well, that`s absolutely right, Nancy. That`s called a cell tower dump. What police would do is, is probably, only one cell tower that covers this resort, and the police can go to the phone company and say, Dump us a list of every phone that used this cell tower during, say, the period that we believe that this abduction occurred.

From there, you`ve got a list of phone numbers. You can determine who those people are. Those people -- yes, maybe the suspect`s in there, but more importantly, a lot of those numbers could be witnesses that haven`t been talked to yet, Nancy.

GRACE: In the last hours, everyone, we obtain evidence, we obtain reports that Maddy McCann has been spotted alive, baby Maddy McCann spotted alive.

Back to Jerry Lawton, senior true crime correspondent with "The Daily Star." Jerry, if you could, for those just joining us, explain how baby Maddy went missing.

LAWTON: Well, baby Maddy was on a week-long holiday in a small resort in Portugal called Praia de Luz (ph) with her parents. Her parents basically were dining out that night at a restaurant just a few hundred yards from their apartment, where they and their friends had been continually monitoring each other`s children to make sure they were OK, monitoring...

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa! Jerry, Jerry -- you say that they`re monitoring the children. They`re about 100 yards away. Was there a baby- sitter?

LAWTON: There was a baby-sitting service, which some people had taken advantage of, but there was a group of -- they took the view there are seven adults at the table. They were -- took it in turns to check on each of the children...

GRACE: Wait. You just said there was a baby-sitting service? It`s my understanding there was no baby-sitter, that they left Maddy McCann and her twin siblings alone in their hotel room while they are 100 yards away having dinner with friends. Is that correct?

LAWTON: That is correct, Nancy. Yes. That is -- that has been established in the original police investigation.

GRACE: So there was no baby-sitter?

LAWTON: No, there was no baby-sitter in the apartment. There was Maddy and her two twins in the room alone.

GRACE: So back and forth they go about every 30 minutes, Jerry. And then what happens?

LAWTON: Then Kate, who is Madeleine`s mum, goes to check on Madeleine, and she simply finds her missing. She raises the alarm. She immediately runs out. They`ve taken her. They`ve taken her. And basically, from that point, the mystery continues.

GRACE: OK, to you, Matt Zarrell. Scotland Yard very rarely makes a statement at all, but in the last weeks, they announce baby Maddy very well may be alive. Now, what more do we know about this lawyer coming forward stating that he knows there`s been a spotting of baby Maddy?

ZARRELL: Well, Nancy, the lawyer thought that it was so serious and so credible that within hours -- within hours of hearing this information, the lawyer was meeting with authorities and meeting with police.

We also understand that in addition, Portuguese police are preparing a file all about this that they are giving to Scotland Yard because Scotland Yard is leading the investigation.

We also know, Nancy, that in light of this -- since this development, there have been more persons of interest added to the story, an additional group of people of interest that authorities are looking at.

GRACE: Now, Matt Zarrell, I understand that there are now 41 persons of interest. Do we know who any of the persons of interest are?

ZARRELL: The names have not been released, Nancy. But I can tell they`re from a number of different countries, and the police are scouring the world looking for these people.

GRACE: Everyone, see the tip line, 845-838-4699. Baby Maddy spotted alive, apparently being raised by another couple as their own child.

Going quickly, to Greg Cason, psychologist joining me out of LA. At this point in her life, would she even remember her real mom and dad?

GREG CASON, PSYCHOLOGIST: It`s pretty unlikely that she`ll remember her real mom and dad. She started a new life with this family, and that`s going to be her family to her. Someone who`s only 3 years old is really not going to remember most things.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Bradford Cohen, Remi Spencer, Bradford joining me out of Miami, Remi in New York. Bradford, if this couple has privately adopted baby Maddy McCann, what criminal charges, if any, are they looking at?

BRADFORD COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, you`re in Portugal or whatever island they`re going to be on. So it would be that law would be effective. But they would have to go to their knowledge. If they knew of where this baby came from, if they knew the adoption was illegal or however they did it, if they just paid someone on the black market, then they`d be probably looking at criminal charges, if it was in America. I`m not sure of the law out there...

GRACE: OK, Remi Spencer...

COHEN: ... but I would imagine it would be illegal there, as well.

GRACE: I get the drift from Bradford Cohen, but it`s not like you`re driving around in a stolen car, all right? This is a whole `nother animal. Obviously, they did not get baby Maddy from a reputable adoption agency, all right? So we already know that.

REMI SPENCER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, we would certainly...

GRACE: We know that!

SPENCER: ... assume as much. We would hope as much because there are so many good adoption agencies out there. What`s really unique about this situation is that Madeleine McCann is known to the whole world. Shows, good shows like yours, Nancy, have put her image on the screen. People know who this child is. And if you are adopting a child after Madeleine McCann goes missing, it`s hard to imagine any law-abiding family that is not going to notice the distinctive mark on her eye that you mentioned earlier.

But if they had no way of knowing that this child came from an illegal kidnapping, they can`t be criminally prosecuted.

GRACE: Let me just tell the two of you something, all right, that you may not want to deduce. But obviously, she was not adopted through a reputable or state-run adoption agency. We know that.

COHEN: I don`t think anything`s obvious. How do you know that?

GRACE: As I was trying to say...

COHEN: I don`t think anything`s obvious.

GRACE: ... because she was kidnapped. Most state agencies don`t kidnap children, Bradford. And I`d like to finish...

COHEN: When we`re in America, sure. But in other countries, you have no idea what goes on.

GRACE: You can go ahead and cut his mike, Liz. And along those lines, to get baby Maddy, they would have had to pay a lot of money, all right? So if you`ve got that kind of money to privately adopt a little girl like baby Maddy McCann, you`ve got a TV.

Everybody, when we come back, death by minivan. Police say a mother of two dropped her children with a baby-sitter, hops into her white minivan, then puts the pedal to the metal, running down her live-in boyfriend. Tire tread marks still covering his dead body, then where does Mommy go? To the local bar for a brewsky.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: And now to upscale Pennsylvania suburbs, death by minivan. Police say a mother of two drops the two children with the baby-sitter, hops into her white Mercury minivan, then puts the pedal to the metal, running down her live-in boyfriend. Tires marks still covering his dead body, and then Mommy goes to the local bar for a brewsky.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just a few months ago, the very same woman was defending the man she is now accused of killing as he was being tasered by the police.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tasing him! (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Tasing him! Oh, my God!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The neighbor heard people arguing, then saw a white minivan hit something and drive off. When officers arrived, they found 34-year-old Jeremy Anderson (ph) dead in his driveway with tire tracks on his body.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was probably knocked over, and then she went over top of him, you know, with the undercarriage of the car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brubaker was found hours later at a bar.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Officers say she was visibly intoxicated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: If I`m not mistaken, those are different mug shots. That may mean Mommy has a rap sheet.

Straight out to Brett Larson, investigative reporter. Brett, forget the rap sheet, if there is one. I want to hear about Mommy running down her live-in boyfriend while the two children are just inside the house with a nanny, outside in the driveway. Then she takes off and heads for a bar.

BRETT LARSON, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Yes, takes off and heads for a bar after running over the boyfriend, kids in the house. Nancy, the rap sheet on this woman -- it reads -- it reads like a novel. She`s been hit with so many different things -- DUIs, possession of drugs, you know...

GRACE: They`re both potheads, right?

LARSON: Exactly. And you know, maybe she was under the influence of that when it happened. The police say...

GRACE: Brett, you think I care whether she was high on pot or booze...

LARSON: No.

GRACE: ... at the time she runs somebody down? As you should know by now, Brett Larson, voluntary intoxication or use of drugs is not a defense under the law. You know, I don`t even want to hear you say maybe she was under the influence because the law doesn`t care.

LARSON: No, and they shouldn`t. I mean, they took her blood when they got her at the bar because they said she was visibly intoxicated and may have had something else in her system.

She had to be out of her mind. I mean, she runs down her boyfriend to the point -- the neighbor said it looked like she went over a big bump in the road because the car flew up in the air and came back down on top of him, clearly, as the tire marks prove because they`re still on his body when cops get there.

And she squeals off into the sunset to head down to a bar and have herself a drink or two and chat on the phone. The bartender says she`s on the phone when she walked in. And that was the extent of his conversation. But just total insanity.

GRACE: Out to Justin Freiman, also on the story. Justin, not that this is going to matter, but there may be some type of an argument which could lead her to a heat of passion defense. What do we know? What was happening right before she runs him down?

JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): A neighbor actually heard an argument outside the home just before that minivan had drove away. He actually looked out the window, he identified that van as being his neighbor, Esther Brubaker`s, van. And then he saw it hit a large object that caused the front passenger side of the van to come up in the air, and then it squealed off down the street.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Welcome back. Did Mommy run down her live-in boyfriend? And why? Not that motive matters.

Straight back to Justin Freiman, also on the story. Justin, the reality is that sticks and stones can break your bones, but words can never hurt you. It`s going to take more than an argument to get her off. What do we know about what the neighbor heard?

FREIMAN: Well, the neighbor said that he heard an argument, an actual argument. And actually, after the van left, police had arrived, and they observed no defects in the road or other objects, other than Anderson, that would explain the van jumping up into the air as the witness says he saw.

GRACE: OK, Brett Larson, investigative reporter on the story, was the victim armed in any way? Could she have been defending herself? I`m just trying to rule out the possibilities.

LARSON: Not that we are aware of. We don`t know that Anderson was armed. And as Justin was just saying, we only know that the two of them had an argument. The baby-sitter said Mommy came home, but tried to go in to get the kids, didn`t end up going in and getting the kids, and stayed out, then drove away. The last thing the baby-sitter hears is the squealing tires as the minivan pulls down the street.

GRACE: To Dr. Vincent DiMaio, forensic pathologist joining me tonight out of San Antonio Dr. DiMaio, thanks for being with us. What do you need to learn from the body?

DR. VINCENT DIMAIO, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): Essentially, you want to find out where the point of impact was. Thus, if the impact is to his back, rather than his front, you know, that doesn`t look like he`s kind of going at her.

GRACE: But how can he be going at her anyway, Dr. DiMaio? She`s in the car. She`s in a minivan. He`s outside of the minivan.

DIMAOI: I know, but some attorneys can say, Oh, no, he was somehow going to go at her through the windshield or something.

GRACE: You know what? That`s a really good point. For instance, if she had the window down. I still don`t buy it, but I can see it being used by a defense attorney as a defense. Do you think they need an accident reconstruction, Dr. DiMaio?

DIMAIO: To a degree. I think what you`re interested mostly is the nature of the injuries correlated with the damage to the front of the vehicle.

GRACE: Take a look. There she is, murder by minivan. According to police, this mom, angry at her live-in boyfriend, with the children just feet away inside the house, puts the pedal to the metal and runs down the boyfriend in the driveway, then takes off to a local bar. We are waiting for her first appearance in court. Tonight, she`s in jail, $1 million cash bond.

When we come back, Susan Smith, the toddler-killing mommy, caught paying off fellow inmates behind bars, paying them to play guard while she, Susan Smith, enjoys sex romps with prison girlfriends in cells, closets, even the jailhouse freezer. And to top it all off, she`s scamming money on line.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Susan Smith, the toddler-killing mom, caught paying off fellow inmates to play guard while she, Susan Smith, enjoys sex romps with prison girlfriends in cells, closets, even the jailhouse freezer. And to top it all off, she`s scamming money on line.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "The National Enquirer" is claiming Susan Smith, the woman who drowned her two young sons...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael, 3, and Alexander, 14 months.

SUSAN SMITH: There`s not one minute that goes by that I don`t think about those boys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is having wild sexual trysts in prison.

SMITH: My heart, it just aches so bad!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Other inmates come forward saying Susan Smith is living the high life in jail, making money off of men who support her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: OK. I don`t really know how to start this off, but let me go to Mike Walker, senior editor, "National Enquirer," author of a new book out for Halloween, "Out for Blood." First of all, Mike Walker, who is big daddy? That`s my first question.

MIKE WALKER, NATIONAL ENQUIRER: Well, Big Daddy is a female. Her name is [CENSORED]. She was a bank robber, I believe, and she was the favorite lover of Susan Smith, because she was, well, just what Susan liked. She likes them big, strong, look like men and can make love like men.

And unfortunately, Big Daddy got paroled, I guess, and got out of jail, so she was devastated. But she picked up, right now she`s going with [CENSORED], who is a 38-year-old female bank robber, who also is very masculine-looking. And the inmate that we talked to, I won`t name her, said that -- oh, she`s named in the paper, but I just won`t name her on the show. She was paid to watch for guards, as you said, while she would make love, while Susan Smith would make love with [CENSORED] in their cells, closets, and even the prison`s cafeteria freezer. I bet that was a quickie. The freezer.

GRACE: Mike Walker, we just played sound of Susan Smith, the original tot mom killer, who ran her two little boys -- let`s pull that video up, please, Liz -- who ran her two little boys into a lake, in the car, still strapped into their car seats. I will never forget this image when it happened. Then Susan Smith tearfully going on-air, takes to the airwaves, crying, trying to blame some guy, and a guy nobody knew, nobody had seen, for taking her children. No motive. No sex attack. No robbery. Nothing. She walks off without a scratch on her, and the two boys are dead at the bottom of the lake.

We later find out she did it because she wanted to be with her rich boyfriend, and he didn`t want a ready-made family. That`s that story.

She just said not one minute goes by that I don`t think about my boys. Apparently, Mike Walker, that`s not true.

WALKER: Well, no. Plenty of times go by when she doesn`t think about those boys, when she`s with all those lovers. She also, you know, made love to prison guards, men, that`s what got her into her present correctional institution, a much tougher institution, (inaudible). And she, what she`s doing a lot is, she started out, I don`t know if you know this, she put an ad on a WritePrisoners.com website and she wrote this wonderful thing about how she wanted to correspond with people. And she wrote about her love of quote, "Rainbow, Mickey Mouse, the beach, the mountains, and waterfalls. My favorite color is navy blue and my favorite flower is the daisy." All very sweet. This is a woman --

GRACE: OK. Please stop. The daisy, Mickey Mouse. Loves rainbows? I know one person who is probably just as disgusted as I am, and that`s got to be Tommy Pope out of Charlotte, North Carolina tonight, that prosecuted Susan Smith. Mr. Pope, thank you for being with us.

TOMMY POPE, PROSECUTOR: Glad to be here again.

GRACE: Tommy, does it ever end with her? First there`s the affair she has with the prison guard. Now it`s this. Running some kind of online love for the lovelorn site, where she gets people to send her money? Does it never end with her?

POPE: I think you and I have talked about this, what, numerous times over the years now. I think it ties to lack of remorse. You know, when the jury spoke, some of the jurors afterwards said the reason they gave her life, thought she`d have to face and think about what she had done. Well, clearly, she`s been too busy to do that.

GRACE: You know -- Tommy, you know I`ve got twins. They`re about to turn 6. And the other day I -- Lucy, just for no reason, just hit John David out of the blue in the head. So I swatted her one time. One swat, with my hand on the booty. I`m still thinking about it. I`m still upset. About one swat on the booty. She didn`t even cry! In fact, she said, that didn`t hurt, mother. OK, so obviously that didn`t get me anywhere. But talking about lack of remorse. I think something just is wired differently in her.

POPE: I think you`re right. I think -- you know, even back then, the mental health experts were talking about she`s histrionic, she`s either the princess of the victim, and I think that`s carried through and that`s been the truth that came out of that case. They talked about a botched suicide. I don`t think that was accurate. I think the truth is Susan`s about Susan. You know? Everything she`s done has demonstrated for whatever reason. Like you say, whether it`s wiring, what, raising, whatever it was, she`s going to put herself first, and that`s what she continues to do.

GRACE: To David Smith, the ex-husband of Susan Smith joining us tonight. Those were his little boys that lost their lives. David, thank you for being with us.

DAVID SMITH, EX-HUSBAND OF SUSAN SMITH: Thank you for having me.

GRACE: David, when you hear stories like this, that she`s running a website to scam people out of money, enough money that she can pay off other female inmates while she has sex in the jailhouse freezer? Are you surprised?

SMITH: Actually, no. It doesn`t surprise me with Susan. The way -- how manipulative she is, that she would do something like this.

GRACE: When you say manipulative, what do you mean by that?

SMITH: She`s very conniving. She was always very sneaky. Just like Tommy Pope said. She always had to have her way or no way. So Susan`s going to do something to always get the attention, get the spotlight on her or get it back on her. Whichever way it may be.

GRACE: David Smith joining me, ex-husband of Susan Smith. David, I`ve always wanted to ask you, during that time when you guys were looking for the kidnapper, for the killer, did you believe her? Was she that convincing?

SMITH: At the time, Nancy, I believed her 100 percent. I`ve said that all along, that I thought Susan would have been the last person to ever hurt Michael and Alex.

GRACE: Back to Tommy Pope, the prosecutor who put her behind bars. Joining me tonight out of Charlotte, North Carolina. Tommy, shouldn`t there be a way that people like Susan Smith -- Susan Smith in particular, can be stopped from making money? She makes money off some -- let`s see that shot she puts of herself. It`s writeprisoners.com. And she gets money from lovelorn men who fall in love with her online. I mean, oh, come on. Rainbows? Mickey Mouse?

POPE: I`ll tell you, Nancy, two things. I think one, the Department of Corrections does have an obligation to make sure that she`s not, you know, scamming or taking advantage of people. But, you know, the flip side is, a fool and their money are soon parted. If these guys are stupid enough to send it to some woman who`s spending life in prison, then maybe - - maybe that`s the way their cash is going to flow, there at the Department of Corrections.

So I think there are things we can do there, but ultimately, people have got to have a little bit of sense.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN SMITH: Please -- I mean, please, bring them home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shocking reports from the National Enquirer. A former inmate claims baby-killing mother Susan Smith is having lesbian sex romps behind bars.

S. SMITH: I just can`t express it enough.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An inmate making claims Susan Smith has had sexual relations with a drug-addicted shoplifter, a cocaine dealer named Big Daddy, and an armed bank robber.

S. SMITH: I can`t sleep. I can`t eat. I can`t do anything but think about them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Not only that, she`s apparently a money-making machine behind bars. Making thousands of dollars off the lovelorn. Men that send her money after reading her profile online, where she says she loves Mickey Mouse, and rainbows.

OK. Back out to Tommy Pope, who prosecuted Susan Smith. I`ve always wondered, whatever happened to that boyfriend that she was trying to get her hooks into? She wanted to marry him. He didn`t want a ready-made family. I bet he ran for the hills as if he had seen a monster?

POPE: I think he did. I think -- you talk about the ultimate backfiring. I don`t think that was the issue. I think he was through with her. But when he writes that letter, it is an easy way out to say, I don`t want children. I don`t think even he could have fathomed. There`s a good life lesson there on the way you treat people, but I don`t think he could have fathomed, as David said, the conduct that ensued from that letter.

GRACE: Oh, no. Absolutely not. David Smith, I was looking at her menu tonight. Salisbury steak, cornbread, cake, beverage. She has had fresh fruit, salad. The works. You know what? I never even got to eat supper tonight. When I think about the life she`s living behind bars, David Smith, it`s -- it`s way too good, and when I find out about her making money online and paying other inmates so she can have sex in the jailhouse freezer? Come on. There`s something wrong with that picture, David Smith. Way wrong!

SMITH: Yes. It`s way wrong. It`s very repulsive, it`s disgusting. Something is broken with society when we all allow inmates and people who have done these horrible, horrible things like Susan to be able to have privileges like this, after doing such horrible, terrible things.

GRACE: David, when was it in this scenario that you learned it was Susan Smith, your wife, who was responsible for the deaths of your two little boys? When in the investigation did you realize that?

SMITH: I learned of it on the ninth day, after looking for them for nine days, when she confessed. I heard about Susan`s confession, just like everyone else. On national television.

GRACE: And what went through your mind? What went through your body when you heard that?

SMITH: Oh, wow. I think I just -- every bit of life, every reason for living just stopped. Didn`t know how to put one foot in front of the other anymore. Didn`t know what I was going to do. My whole world literally -- like everything I had left, they were gone, just like that. You know? There wasn`t anymore going to be looking for them, there wasn`t going to be any more hope of finding them. It was stopped immediately. My whole world just stopped. Didn`t need no -- like I had to think to breathe. I had to remind myself to breathe.

GRACE: You know, David Smith, I don`t know if you recall any of the interviews that you gave at that time, but I remember them. I remember you just like it was yesterday, and the things you said made such an impact on me. There have been times I`ve been with my own children, and I remember what you went through, and it makes every moment all the sweeter to me with my own children, and I`ve often wondered how you are, what you`re doing, if you`ve healed at all? Can you tell us anything?

SMITH: Yes. I`m doing much better these days. I have another -- two more children. A daughter and a son. Savannah and Nicholas. You know -- there`s still bad days. But there`s definitely more good days now than bad days. But I guess, Nancy, around holidays and around the anniversary, which is coming up this month, Michael`s birthday is a few days away. Would have been. Those days are still very hard. Days like that still probably bring me down to my knees, but all in all, life is much better now, and I`m doing really well. Thank you.

GRACE: Out to Clark Goldband on the story. What is this I hear about her stealing behind bars? Stealing from the chaplain?

GOLDBAND: According to the National Enquirer through an inmate, Nancy, Susan Smith allegedly stole Victoria`s Secret body lotion, and she wanted to give that container of Victoria`s Secret body lotion to one of her lovers behind bars. According to reports, that body lotion was discovered and Susan Smith was in trouble.

GRACE: OK. What do we know about the relationship with Big Daddy, Clark Goldband?

GOLDBAND: Nancy, according to reports, the relationship with Big Daddy went on for some time, and as the relationship was consummated, it was quite a long relationship. And according to reports, Susan Smith preferred to act in a feminine role in the relationship, and preferred the other women to act in the non-traditional stronger role, according to the National Enquirer.

GRACE: Mike Walker, of National Enquirer, will it ever end with this woman?

WALKER: No, it won`t. And now she`s done the ultimate. She`s changed her story. Instead of the confession, a fairly straightforward confession she gave in 1994, she is now saying, according to a cellmate that we interviewed, she said, I should have died with my babies. I was supposed to be in that car. But as I got out the cushion, I couldn`t start the car from rolling, it was moving too fast, and I couldn`t catch up with it. It went into the water, and they were gone. This lying evil child- killing bitch is still trying to excuse what she did. And I think partly it`s to make herself feel better, because as you know, she has cut herself numerous times. She has big, big cut scars on her arms, and she actually once almost committed, successfully suicide by cutting. She was stopped in the nick of time.

GRACE: I agree with David Smith and Tommy Pope, I don`t think that`s true. I think everything is about getting attention on herself.

Everyone, when we come back, an emergency 911 call from a doctor/lawyer after his 6-year-old little girl comes home to find mommy, just eight days out of a full face-lift, unconscious in the tub. The case tees up for trial in just days, and the defense tonight fighting to keep that jury from hearing the real evidence.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: And tonight live, Utah, an emergency 911 call from a doctor/lawyer. Their 6-year-old girl comes home to find mommy, just eight days out of a full facelift, unconscious in the bedroom tub. The death ruled natural, but tonight a full-fledged affair with a younger woman uncovered as the doctor brings the mistress home as the new nanny. The case teeing up for trial in just days, as we head to Provo. The defense now fighting to keep the jury from hearing the real evidence.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A wife and former beauty queen gets a routine facelift, but days later, she`s dead in her own bathtub. Was it murder?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My father orchestrated this whole plan on how to murder my mother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s fallen in the bathtub.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who`s in the bathtub? Who`s in the bathtub?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And she started to cry and said, Alexis, if anything happens to me, make sure it wasn`t your father.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Utah County attorney office arrested and charged Martin McNeill with murder and obstruction of justice. They say he devised a scheme to make his wife`s death look accidental. Prosecutors say McNeill convinced his wife to have plastic surgery against her wishes, then gave her a dangerous mix of prescription drugs. He later told police he found Michelle unconscious in the bathtub.

Pleasant Grove police did not investigate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They did not interview anyone. People never question my father. They, you know, he was the physician, the attorney. People didn`t want to question him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Alexis and her family then took their case to the Utah County attorney`s office. They investigated again. And now allege McNeill got rid of his wife to be with his mistress.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is someone that I thought loved his family and would do anything for us, and it`s horrifying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pleasant Grove doctor, Martin McNeill, is now finally facing charges for the murder of his wife.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The world now knows that my father has committed murder.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. Thank you for being with us. We are headed to Provo, as the trial starts for a doctor/lawyer. He comes home after his 6-year-old girl finds mommy in the bathtub, half naked and unconscious.

Out to Jim Kirkwood, talk show host, KTKK, Jim, thank you for being with us. Jim, I understand the defense is filing motions fast and furious. Already they have gotten the judge to agree that the word "victim" can`t be used in front of the jury. What other evidence is the defense keeping away from the jury?

JIM KIRKWOOD, KTKK TALK SHOW HOST: There`s a whole list, Nancy. The prosecutors have filed a couple of things. There`s a total of eight motions in play. And the defense motion wants to dismiss the second charge, the obstruction of justice, based on a time factor, because he was out of state in prison for identity fraud. And of course under Utah law, if you leave the state, that stops the meter on that particular --

GRACE: Well, what`s really got me interested, Clark Goldband, is that the defense is keeping out a statement, that mommy, a beauty queen, made to her older daughter Alexis, who was in med school, that if anything happens to me, see if your father did it. I mean, she was covered in bandages, and he was feeding her drugs.

GOLDBAND: That`s right.

GRACE: And she died.

GOLDBAND: And that`s what the sister claims, Nancy. She`s not going to be allowed to testify to that. And some of the other motions you were referring to are key here. So we`re really watching the courtroom closely. We`re going to learn if the 6-year-old girl that discovered Michelle McNeill dead in the tub is allowed to testify. Defense wants to keep her out.

GRACE: So now they`re trying to keep her out, too? Incredible.

GOLDBAND: Yes, that`s right.

GRACE: I can only pray the judge will let the child testify.

Everyone, we remember tonight American hero, Army Sergeant Patrick Durham, 24, Chattanooga. Army Commendation Medal, Army Achievement Medal, National Defense Service Medal, father Sammy, one brother, three sisters, widow Christy, sons Elijah and Jordan, daughter Cheyenne. Patrick Durham, American hero.

Everyone, Dr. Drew is up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.

END