Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
MacNeill Facelift Murder Trial Opens in Utah
Aired October 15, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live to Utah, a 911 call from a doctor/lawyer after his 6-year-old little girl comes home to find Mommy, just days out of a full face-lift, face up in quote, "red water" in the family bathtub, the death first ruled natural, but tonight, a full- fledged affair with a younger woman uncovered after the doctor brings the new mistress home as the nanny.
And within just hours, hours, after his wife`s death, Dr. MacNeill already completely cleans out his wife`s closet. Today, day one of the Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial.
And tonight, to Conway, New Hampshire, 14-year-old Abby walking home from school vanishes without a trace. Tonight, where is Abby?
And also, a high-risk violent sex offender known for targeting children on playgrounds escapes undetected across the Washington state border. But 48-year-old Michael Stanley (ph) hiding in plain sight, right here in the U.S. Why? Because Canada doesn`t want him, Canada refusing to take the child predator back for prosecution. Now he`s our problem. Thanks, Canada!
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, live, Utah, a 911 call from doctor/lawyer after his 6-year-old comes home to find Mommy, just days out of a full facelift, face-up in, quote, "red water" in the family bathtub, the death first ruled natural, but tonight a full-fledged affair with a much younger woman uncovered after the doctor actually brings his lover home as the new nanny.
And within just hours after his wife`s death, he`s already completely cleaned out his wife`s closet -- everything, shoes, shirts, belts, the works, gone and in boxes. Today, day one of the Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A doctor, his murdered wife and a mistress. His wife Michele is found dead in the bathtub.
GRACE: The mother is found by one of her 6-year-old daughters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you do after you saw your mom in the tub?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Went to go get my dad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Family claims she finally let Martin MacNeill talk her into having a facelift, a procedure the prosecution says was part of Martin MacNeill`s plan to murder his wife.
911 OPERATOR: Sir (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s fallen in the bathtub! (INAUDIBLE) I need an ambulance!
911 OPERATOR: OK, is she breathing at all?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s not!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prosecutors allege she was drugged and drowned, a murder plot so Dr. MacNeill could continue an affair with this woman, Gypsy Willis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Incredible! Just hours after his wife is pronounced dead in the emergency room, he has already cleaned out her closet, put it in boxes, everything from shoes to hose to bras all in boxes ready to go.
We are live and taking your calls, today day one in the Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial. Straight out to Jean Casarez, on the scene at the Provo courthouse. Jean, what`s happening in court? Trying their best to strike a jury, right?
JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: ... prospective jurors from all over Utah County have come today for jury selection. And because this case is so high-profile, the judge has had individual questioning with jurors in his chambers with the parties all day.
We were able to get the prospective jury questionnaire. There are sensitive questions on this. How do you feel about someone that cheats on their spouse? What if that is the defendant? And have you ever had a facelift? Those are some of the...
GRACE: OK, whoa! Whoa! Wait! Wait! Wait! Back it up! So they`re asking jurors, How do you feel about adulterers and cheaters? And have you had a facelift? I mean, do they really think all the cheaters are going to go -- I mean, what do they expect? Are they going to -- that they`re going to get real, honest answers out of these questionnaires?
CASAREZ: And maybe that`s why they`re questioning them in chambers, to try to see what they wrote and dig beneath the layer to try to get the truth to see if there`s bias so they can`t be fair to one side or the other.
GRACE: All right, well, you know what? That sounds like a lot of questioning created by the defense, all right? Number one, nobody`s going to answer whether they`ve had a facelift in a court document. And number two, you think the cheaters are really going to `fess up in court? Interesting, what you just said.
Unleash the lawyers, talking about individual questioning, with me, Eleanor Odom, death penalty-qualified prosecutor joining me. Also joining me tonight out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Peter Odom is with us.
Eleanor, very often, I would have individual questioning in the judge`s chambers, and that is when I had questions that were so sensitive, such as, in a general question, if a juror had answered that they or someone they knew had been, for instance, molested as child, or some extremely -- or some mental health issue they wanted to talk about. Naturally, without even telling the rest of the jury pool, you would take that juror for individual questioning. Or if it`s a sensitive question for all the jurors, then all get questioned individually.
But apparently, Eleanor, all of these jurors are being questioned individually. Why?
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: I know. Well, that`s to make sure that they`re going to have a fair and impartial jury from the very get-go that eliminates any potential defense -- you know, defense saying, Oh, we couldn`t get a fair jury. So I think that`s a smart move by the judge.
GRACE: You know what? I think you`re right. Peter, before you became a defense lawyer, you were a prosecutor.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
GRACE: And wouldn`t you agree that this is the best strategy to avoid an adverse reaction or a complaint by the defense later on, take the time...
PETER ODOM: Exactly.
GRACE: ... at the get-go in jury selection?
PETER ODOM: Exactly. What they`re trying to avoid, Nancy, is the so- called slopover effect, where questioning one jury (sic) -- they did it in the room with all the other jurors and something prejudicial were to come out, if it were done with everybody there, it would slop over onto the other jurors. The judge is being...
GRACE: You know, I never heard it...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... slop over onto the other jurors, but I get your drift.
To Jim Kirkwood, talk show host joining me from Salt Lake City, KTKK. Jim, thanks for being with us. How much publicity has this case gotten locally Has the defense -- what`s their position on change of venue?
JIM KIRKWOOD, KTKK (via telephone): The -- we haven`t heard any discussion about change of venue, but everybody is talking about this case, Nancy. This is on everybody`s lips right now. This is huge.
GRACE: You know, I was very shocked, Clark Goldband, to learn -- and I found this in court documents -- about a picture the 6-year-old little girl had drawn. Liz, I believe you`ve had that made into a graphic. Clark, describe the diagram the 6-year-old little girl drew.
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Nancy. It`s a handwritten document that we obtained from court filings. It`s right here. You can see it. And we have a full screen we`ll be able to show the audience in just a moment. And she draws how she finds her mom dead in the tub. Now, it`s important to note here, she specifically shows Michele MacNeill`s head...
GRACE: Keep it up, Liz.
GOLDBAND: ... under the faucet. You can see it right there.
GRACE: Clark, look. Clark, look at your monitor. She says, Mommy`s laying face-up. This little 6-year-old is writing this. This is her handwriting.
GOLDBAND: Yes. Yes.
GRACE: All the water was red. Her head was out of the water. Her hair was going into the drain. Her eyes were open.
All right, Jean Casarez, whoever is responsible for leaving the mother in this condition for the little girl to find, let me just say, may they rot in hell! A 6-year-old child to find this?
CASAREZ: Little Aida (ph) was the first one that found her mother, but her story, what she says how her mother was, is completely different to what her father says, who came up right after she did. He says Michele went head first into the tub. That`s how she was found, with her head hanging over and her body outside the tub.
GRACE: Was she dressed or not dressed? Jean, I`ve heard a couple of different answers, and that`s very critical. Was she dressed, half- dressed, undressed?
CASAREZ: Very critical. Once again, a difference in story. Little 6-year-old Aida said her mother was fully dressed in a blue jogging suit, but the father, the defendant in this case, says, No, she had no clothes on from the waist down.
GRACE: All right, back to the lawyers. Let`s go to defense attorney Peter Odom, now specializing in defending felony crimes, including homicides. I guess your response is going to be that she`s a child witness, and therefore, his version should be taken as truthful over the child`s.
PETER ODOM: Well, I would just make a comment more generally about eyewitness testimony.
GRACE: I`m sure.
PETER ODOM: It`s the least reliable form of testimony. So the fact that there are discrepancies between what the daughter saw and what the father described, that`s not surprising. Doesn`t necessarily mean -- and actually, this is the jury instruction on eyewitness testimony. It doesn`t necessarily mean that either one of them is lying. They could just be mistaken.
GRACE: Really? Just mistaken? Let`s see that diagram the little girl drew. You know what? If you look at this, look how detailed the diagram is she drew of her mother. And we all know how children are so attached to their mommies. Take a look. She`s fully clothed in, I guess, pajamas or pants and shirt. She`s got her long hair. She`s laying face up, and her eyes are open. That is how the child draws Mommy.
Back to you, Jim Kirkwood, talk show host, KTKK. I`m just learning, after combing through court documents, that doctor/lawyer -- I don`t really know what to call him -- Martin MacNeill actually boxed up all of his wife`s belongings, her clothes, her hairbrushes, all of her perfumes, her lotions and potions, her shoes, her socks, everything within just hours -- hours -- after she`s dead. Is this true, Jim Kirkwood?
KIRKWOOD: Yes. I`ve spoken with a neighbor, and it was confirmed to me. And it`s so bad, there`s even apparently -- I haven`t seen it, but apparently, a photo of one of Gypsy`s relatives wearing one of Michele MacNeill`s jackets.
GRACE: Whoa-oh! Whoa-oh! OK, haven`t heard that. So his girlfriend, the mistress, Gypsy -- and that`s her real name, y`all. That`s her real name.
KIRKWOOD: Yes.
GRACE: Gypsy`s relatives are actually wearing the dead wife`s clothes? And there`s a photo of it.
KIRKWOOD: That`s an unconfirmed report that I have, yes.
GRACE: OK., I want to get back to boxing all of his wife`s belongings up within a couple of hours of her being pronounced dead. OK, Peter Odom, you`ve got on your slug (ph) look tonight, and I`d like to hear your response to that. I`m talking about lotions, perfumes, hairbrushes, hose, socks, shoes, clothes, everything. By the time his daughter can get back in town -- she`s in med school. By the time she gets home, her mom`s closet, the bathroom, the drawers, everything is cleaned out and in boxes.
PETER ODOM: Yes. What this guy is definitely guilty of is being insensitive, I mean, toward everybody, including his family. That doesn`t mean he`s guilty of murder.
GRACE: Insensitive?
PETER ODOM: Yes, insensitive, maybe even cruel and heartless. But that doesn`t make him guilty of a murder, Nancy, and you know that.
GRACE: Actually, this is what I know. I know that amongst those people that I have dealt with that are in grief, as was I -- I wouldn`t dare part with one thing belonging to my fiance when he was murdered, and that`s a similar experience that I`ve had with other people in grief. So I`m looking forward to when Dr. MacNeill takes the stand and explains exactly when was it that he began packing his wife`s belongings, maybe before she was pronounced dead?
Everyone, when we come back, more on the Dr. Martin MacNeill murder trial.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A 911 call from doctor/lawyer husband after his 6-year-old little girl comes home to find Mommy, just days out of a full facelift, face up in, quote, "red water" in the family bathtub, the death first ruled natural, but tonight a full-fledged affair with a much younger woman uncovered after the doctor brings the lover home as the new nanny.
And within hours of his wife`s death, MacNeill has completely cleaned out his wife`s closet -- perfume, lotion, hose, socks, underwear, the works. Today, day one of the Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michele MacNeill suddenly died after a routine cosmetic surgery procedure while in the care of her husband.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A couple of days before my mother`s death, I was helping her wash her hair and she started to cry and said, Alexis, if anything happens to me, make sure it wasn`t your father.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Alexis and her siblings believe their father killed their mother, Michele MacNeill.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had been concerned about an affair.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everything we ever thought we knew was based on the lies my father made.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Those are two of MacNeill`s eight children he had with his wife, Michele. These girls fought long and hard for justice, and today, day one jury selection in the facelift murder trial.
You know, it`s really interesting that those statements that the mom made to her adult children are not coming into evidence. This judge ruled that the jury will never hear that the victim, Michele MacNeill, said, If anything happens to me, please make sure your father didn`t kill me, make sure it wasn`t your father. That evidence has been ruled out. There`s something very wrong with us knowing evidence this jury will never hear.
Out to the lines. Out to Jason. Hi, Jason. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good evening, Nancy. How are you tonight?
GRACE: I`m good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. I got a quick question. Is it possible to drown on your back while in the bathtub?
GRACE: OK, Jason, I love that question. I`m going to throw that to Dr. Michelle Dupre because believe it or not, as we were preparing for tonight, I asked that question. To Dr. Michelle Dupre, medical examiner, forensic pathologist joining me out of Columbia. dr. Michelle Dupre, what can you tell us about that?
DR. MICHELLE DUPRE, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): Nancy (INAUDIBLE) very, very little water. But to drown on your back would not be impossible. (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: How would it work, Doctor? I don`t understand what you`re saying.
DUPRE: Well, it doesn`t make a lot of sense, OK? And I don`t really know how -- how much water was there, or you know, if there wasn`t water there. But because she was on her back doesn`t mean that she couldn`t have drowned. She may have ingested water. Again, you can drown in very, very little water if it goes down the wrong way, if it gets -- if you just...
GRACE: But Dr. Dupre, the little girl said -- and this was confirmed later by the water that came out of her lungs. The little girl said that she was lying in red water, bloody water.
DUPRE: Yes.
GRACE: What does that mean? She didn`t have lacerations.
DUPRE: Well, Nancy, actually, she did have an abrasion on her forehead.
GRACE: Yes, that`s right. You`re right.
DUPRE: Your scalp bleeds a lot. Even a little bit of blood can make water look very, very red at times. I think this is a case where we really need to look at the evidence very, very carefully scientifically, medically and forensically.
GRACE: So you don`t see a problem with, in this small amount of water, her being dead face up in the water? Because, see, I`ve got a problem with that. I`m just a layperson, though. I`m the J.D. You`re the M.D. But that doesn`t seen right to me.
DUPRE: I can understand (INAUDIBLE) seems odd, but it`s not impossible.
GRACE: Not impossible. OK, then what are the chances, 1 out of 100, 2 out of 100, what?
DUPRE: I don`t think you can really put odds on that. Again, it depends. You can drown with a very small amount of water, a gulp of water could -- you could drown from that. If you happen to be face up or face down, it really makes no difference.
GRACE: I know. I know what you`re saying. I know you`re the M.D., but I agree with Jason. Something doesn`t smell right. I`m not buying it.
Next, everyone, Utah doctor Martin MacNeill -- he`s also a lawyer -- on trial, accused in the murder of his own wife just eight days out of a full facelift, found dead in the family bathtub.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember how she was -- what she looked like when she was in the bathtub? Was she sitting down or lying down or...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was lying down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How much water was in the tub?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: About -- like, not covering her face. So about like, right here by her ear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she had a top on?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. What about bottoms?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember seeing her eyes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. They were open.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls, day one in the Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial.
Out to Susan Constantine, jury consultant and body language expert. Susan, thanks for being with us. Susan, the way I look at it is the state wants retired military, ex-police officers, people that have held jobs for a period of time, parents, people that have been in some sort of stable job or relationship or setting for a period of time, while the defense basically wants convicted felons, people that have had run-ins with the law, a sort of a non-conformist type of juror. What do you think they`re looking for? Quickly.
SUSAN CONSTANTINE, JURY CONSULTANT: For the state, you know, always - - the state always wants more of those authoritarians. The defense wants more the egalitarians. The state is going to want people that have medical backgrounds, maybe elderly people that take a lot of medications, and the defense is just the complete opposite.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: (INAUDIBLE) Police Department (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need -- I need an ambulance! (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK, what`s the problem, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Need medical.
911 OPERATOR: Sir, what`s wrong?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife`s fallen in the bathtub!
911 OPERATOR: Who`s in the bathtub? Who`s in the bathtub?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife!
911 OPERATOR: OK. Is she conscious?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s not! I`m a physician! I need help!
911 OPERATOR: OK. Sir, is -- sir, I can`t understand you, OK? Can you calm down just a little bit?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need help!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. It is day one in the murder trial of doctor/lawyer Martin MacNeill, finally on trial for the murder of his wife, found face up in the family bathtub in, quote, "red water," as their 6- year-old little girl described it. They are the parents of eight children.
Jean Casarez, joining me there on the scene at the Provo courthouse, is it true that after Michele`s death, that Martin MacNeill wanted to give back four of the children?
CASAREZ: That`s right. That is right. According to the prosecution and the defense we know another story, but that is just one of the things, Nancy, the jury will not hear. He will not -- the jury will hear about disowning his children because his Will was changed, or having the four children go to live with another family.
GRACE: OK, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. Which one of the four children -- was it like picking out of a hat? Which one of the four -- ones of the four children did he want to send back? Didn`t they get them from Russia?
CASAREZ: The adopted -- yes, the adopted children, correct.
GRACE: He wanted to send back all four of his adopted children?
CASAREZ: That is what the prosecution is saying, and they wanted it to come before the jury, but the biological children will be testifying in this case.
GRACE: OK, question -- why did he want to get rid of his four children?
CASAREZ: Well, that brings us to identity theft, at least in one area. Now remember, MacNeill has been serving prison time in Texas. He has served that time now, according to the prosecution -
GRACE: Jane, Jane, Jane, Jane, Jane -- you just said `identity theft` -- I think my head`s just going to blow off because on top of the wife dead in a pool of `red water` and the six-year-old girl finding it. I mean, my little girl watched a Snoopy Halloween show the other night and was upset - - this little girl comes home and the mommy`s dead in the bathtub -- I`m hearing about all this and now you`re saying `identity theft.`
CASAREZ: Right, long story short, his girlfriend Gypsy had a lot of debt. They wanted to get her out of that. She and Dr. MacNeill devised a plan where she would steal the name of one of his adopted daughters, which she did. He sends the daughter away to live with another family back in the Ukraine, but they got caught, and so that identity fraud landed them both in federal prison.
GRACE: OK. I think this will be a great time to go to defense attorney Peter Odom. You don`t look quite as smug as you did in the A block. A little, little cracked.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I guess I`m not trying hard enough, Nancy.
GRACE: Tried to send back four of his children, Peter.
ODOM: Yes, and what the prosecution`s going to do in this case is to show what a bad person this guy is, hoping that the jury will use that to convict him of murder in the absence of any hard evidence of murder.
GRACE: OK, Peter --
ODOM: And that`s a good strategy -- sometimes it works, it might work here.
GRACE: Peter, the mistress -
ODOM: It`s not very fair.
GRACE: -- is going to testify against him.
ODOM: Hm hm --
GRACE: All right -
ODOM: That they had an affair -
GRACE: -- let`s talk about hard evidence. Let`s talk about hard evidence. Brian Russell, a forensic psychologist, co-host of "Fatal Vows" on Investigation Discovery -- Dr. Russell, let me see if I`ve got this memorized correctly. In her system was Percocet, Ambien, Valium, Phena -- Phena something -- Phenotil. All of these including one that is Oxycodone, he was the one giving her all of her medication. He was the one in charge. She couldn`t even see. And there were times that she had her whole face bandaged from the facelift that he forced her to have -- that he coerced her into having. She would ask to feel the pill. She was so afraid of all the dope he was giving her. What`s that say to you?
BRIAN RUSSELL, PH.D., FORENSICE PSYCHOLOGIST AND CO-HOST OF "FATAL VOWS": Well, Nancy, this could be a "Fatal Vows" episode, I mean, he had the means, he had the opportunity, he had the motive and an affair by the way, including in this case, the mistress with a name straight out of Central Casting, is the most common motive that we see on the show for spousal murder. Now this is part of the reason why, in most states, doctors are not supposed to be prescribing to their close family members. Because even if there`s not a motive like this, it`s just not good to have that kind of lack of objectivity. And it`s amazing to me having evaluated a lot of doctors who`ve done a lot of heinous things, if I told you how many things and what they were, it would shatter your faith in doctors. So doctors can do all the same horrible things as anybody else. But this guy has a long history of sociopathic behavior. I can`t believe he had a medical license this long.
GRACE: Well, sadly, the jury`s not going to hear about that long history, but they will hear how Dr. MacNeill asked the attending physician to prescribe all of this medication, and he vowed that he personally -- MacNeill -- would take care of her and would administer the dosages to her. Out to the line -- Sharon in Florida -- hi, Sharon. What`s your question?
(SHARON): Hi, Nancy. I was just wondering, what do they consider the level of drugs in her system to be? Was it more on a normal side? Or how did they rationalize that?
GRACE: You know, I don`t know if there is a `normal` side to having Phenergan, Valium and -- let me see what else is in there -- Oxycodone and Ambien, Percocet all in your system at once. But what do we know about the levels of drugs in her body, Jean Casarez?
CASAREZ: Well, what we know is that individually those drugs were not at toxic levels, but it`s the prosecution`s theory that in combination they can produce a toxic effect which can cause cardiac arrhythmia -- out-of- control heart, which can then lead to a cardiac death.
GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. Jean Casarez joining us near the Provo courthouse. Also with us in Utah, Jim Kirkwood, KTKK. You know, Jim, the fact that he tried to send all of his children back to -- four of them -- back to Russia, is something the jury may never hear about. There`s a lot of evidence they`re not going to hear. Very, very substantial evidence, incriminating evidence. In fact, is it true, Jim, that this judge has announced that the State cannot refer to `the victim` in court -- they can`t say the words `the victim`?
JIM KIRKWOOD, TALK SHOW HOST KTKK AM 630: You are absolutely correct, Nancy. And remember Utah County where this is taking place in the Provo courthouse is probably the most conservatively-religious area in the United States. And that`s why a lot of these questions are before the jury.
GRACE: Everyone, we are in the courthouse and headed to Provo. When we come back, 15-year-old Abby walking home from school, vanishes without a trace. Tonight, where is Abby?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Tonight, to Conway, New Hampshire -- 15-year-old Abby walking home from school, vanishes without a trace. Tonight, where is Abby?
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
MICHAEL BOARD, REPORTER FOR WOAI, SAN ANTONIO TEXAS, 1200 AM: Fifteen-year-old Abigail Hernandez vanished after she left high school. She was caught on school surveillance cameras shortly before 2:30. Since then, no one has heard from her.
Female: Abby, we really miss you. We need to know that you`re safe. Please come home.
Male: A ping from her cell phone appeared near Cranmore Mountain Resort, shortly before she was reported missing.
Male: We have a crew out on the mountain. We all have our eyes open everywhere.
BOARD: No solid leads as to what happened to Abigail Hernandez.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
GRACE: The tip line is 1-800-CALL-FBI. This little girl, just 14- years-old when she went missing, a track star scrubbed in sunshine -- Abby Hernandez. Let`s take a look at her -- repeat tip line -- 1-800-CALL-FBI. Michael Board, WOAI, what can you tell me?
BOARD: Well, she was last seen leaving her school. Her friends were on the school bus, they saw her walking out of her school about 2:30 in the afternoon. Her mom got home from her nursing job about 7 o`clock that night, she was not there, her mom started panicking, called the cops. She has not been seen from since. There`s been a massive search -- air, ground, water, in ponds, in rivers -- no sign of this beautiful 15-year-old girl.
GRACE: (Justin Fryman), on the story. I didn`t quite understand that -- the friends on the school bus saw her where?
(FRYMAN): The last she was seen was on the way walking home. And there`s -- the mother said that she did make it home, and actually police dogs followed her scent to the house and nearby woods.
GRACE: OK, so when the school bus friends saw her, she must have been getting off the bus and going to her home? Is that correct, Justin?
(FRYMAN): The (inaudible) is that she was actually on foot -- she was seen on foot leaving school.
GRACE: OK. So, on foot, leaving school and she did make it home. Actor Marc Klaas, President and Founder of KlaasKids Foundation -- this is his specialty. What do you make of it Marc, she made it home?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER OF KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, we believe she made it home. Certainly dogs can be fallible, but you know she was -- she is in the population of children that are the most vulnerable in our society. Twenty years ago, this would have been just dropped as another runaway case, but now, extraordinarily, it`s got multiple law enforcement agencies involved in it, it`s almost like a nationwide Amber alert -- the kind of attention that this case has gotten. So, hopefully, all of that attention will result in recovering her, and hopefully recovering her alive. But one other thing, Nancy. She was going to have her 15th birthday right after she disappeared. So the idea that a 15-year-old girl or a to-be 15- year-old girl would run away the day before her birthday, I think is very hard to believe.
GRACE: Now, I recall distinctly some cases in the Connecticut area, Marc Klaas, I don`t know if you remember them. And authorities are trying to connect them. Several of those girls were involved in sports activity such as track. They were high school girls that all went missing. This young lady, Abby -- Abigail -- was a track star. She was 14 years old when she went missing. Do you think, Marc Klaas, since we don`t know of a boyfriend, anybody that she`s met online -- do you think it`s possible that she had been spotted or targeted by someone at these track meets?
KLAAS: Oh, sure, there are definitely serial predators out there, there`s no question about that. We know the adult -- we know the adult predators, we know people like John Wayne Gacy who went after young boys, so I think that that possibility is absolutely very, very real. There still, Nancy, are a whole string of unsolved cases on the east coast of young girls and young women that have disappeared, and many of those cases have been followed on your show.
GRACE: To Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert joining me tonight out of Raleigh. Ben, her phone pinged -- that doesn`t necessarily mean a phone call was made or intercepted or that she got a text -- what does it mean?
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Pinged just means that your cell phone made contact with a cell tower -- that`s it. In emergency situations, the police can go to the cell phone companies and ask them to ping your phone, which means sends a signal out to your phone, and what the cell phone company will get back is the location of that phone, accurate to about 100 feet. But the problem is, the phone has to be on, Nancy.
GRACE: What do we know about the pings, Michael Board, WOAI?
BOARD: Well, there have been pings -- a report that her phone was used about 6:30 in the evening-
GRACE: Yes, they tossed that though. I just found out Michael, right, as we went to air tonight that that cell phone call that we were putting a lot of credence in -- the cell phone call we thought she made that night around 6:30 p.m. -- she didn`t make it. All we`ve got now is that back-up ping off one of the cell phone towers -- they just released that to us tonight. Hold on -- out to the phones. Evan in Kentucky, hi, Evan, what`s your question?
(EVAN): Yes, did she have an older boyfriend or a guy that was stalking her, maybe?
GRACE: I don`t know. Justin, I know that`s one of the first things that police will look for because this typically is not a female crime -- to abduct a 14-year-old track star and kill her. All right, so, we`re looking at a man, most likely. What do we know about boyfriends, ex- boyfriends, online activity, has she been targeted? What do we know?
(FRYMAN): We know that law enforcement told local news that Abby had befriended an older boy on Facebook and had a high school boyfriend.
GRACE: She had a high school boyfriend, and what did you say about Facebook?
(FRYMAN): That she had -- that she had befriended an older boy on Facebook.
GRACE: You know, the thing with that, though, to Eleanor and Peter -- first to you, Eleanor is -- you can friend somebody on Facebook and they can be 1,000 miles away. I don`t know how much stock I would put into that.
ELEANOR ODOM, DEATH PENALTY QUALIFIED SEX OFFENDER PROSECUTOR: Well, Nancy, but you also got to consider that person that you friended -- their friends, and perhaps they`re the ones who are looking at her, you never know. It depends on your privacy (codes). And I`ve seen far too often young teenage girls this age -- 14/15 being enamored of an older boy or an older guy, and you know, wanting to meet them and what not. Even when they first meet on Facebook. We always say Facebook`s like the devil for these types of cases.
Male: Yes.
GRACE: When we come back, a high risk, violent sex offender, known for targeting children on playgrounds. You take the children to playgrounds? I do. This guy escapes, undetected, across the Washington state border. He`s here in the U.S. But 48-year-old Michael Stanley is hiding in plain sight -- right here in America. Why?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Also tonight, a high-risk, violent sex offender, known for targeting children on playgrounds, escapes, undetected, across the Washington state border. But 48-year-old Michael Stanley is hiding in plain sight -- right here in the U.S. Why? Because Canada doesn`t want him. They are refusing to take their child predator back for prosecution. Now he`s our problem. Thanks, Canada.
Male FROM VIDEOCLIP: Detectives were able to confirm with U.S. Customs and Border Protection that Stanley crossed from British Columbia into Washington State at the Blaine border crossing.
GRACE: First of all, to John Phillips, host with KABC and columnist with the "Orange County Register" -- John, thank you for being with us. First of all, (Liz), while you put the sex predator`s picture up, John, tell me about this guy and where do we think he is?
JOHN PHILLIPS, HOST, 790 KABC TALK RADIO, COLUMNIST, "ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER": Well, this guy is a perverted time bomb, Nancy. This guy has been breaking the law to the tune of almost 50 times in his career. He`s a violent sexual predator, we believe he`s in Washington State, however, there`s not much we can do about it, Nancy, because he`s not wanted -- there aren`t any warrants out for his arrest in the United States, and the country where he just came from, they don`t want him either. So, it`s a real catch-22 here, and we`re caught in the middle and you almost have to wait until a child or an innocent person or a disabled person -- somebody defenseless -- is to be sexually molested by this guy before you can do something about it. It`s appalling.
GRACE: You know, Marc Klaas, I`m glad that John Phillips threw in the word `elderly` or `disabled.` OK, Marc Klaas, I hope you`re sitting down - - maybe you should lay down for this one. Marc, one of his offenses in Canada is attacking and sexually assaulting I think it was an 87-year-old woman confined to a wheelchair -- 82.
KLAAS: Yes, yes, this is a major failure of government on every level. They`re supposed to protect us from monsters like this. We have to ask the question -- what was this person doing on the street? Guys like this need to be put behind bars once it`s determined their level of danger and threat and kept behind bars for the rest of their lives.
GRACE: You know, Peter, I don`t know what`s next -- Canada just pulling him up -- pulling up to the state border with all the sex predators on a bus, and going `Run, run, as fast as you can!`
P. ODOM: Well, remember, Nancy, this guy is a U.S. citizen.
GRACE: He also has U.S. citizenship, that`s true.
P. ODOM: And in a sense they`re just giving us back our own garbage - -
GRACE: Yes, he snuck across the border -
P. ODOM: But they`re refusing -- but they`re refusing to extradite him.
GRACE: -- his offenses are in Canada --
P. ODOM: Right.
GRACE: And they are not spending the time or the money to extradite him.
P. ODOM: Right.
GRACE: I wouldn`t want him home either, but it`s their duty, is it not, Eleanor?
E. ODOM: Of course it`s their duty, Nancy, and it`s really appalling that they`re not taking the steps necessary to put this pervert back behind bars for cutting off his GPS monitor and running.
GRACE: So I guess we`ve got to wait for him to molest somebody here so we can put him behind bars in the U.S. Everybody, when we get back, the high risk, violent sex offender known for targeting children on playgrounds, living right here in the U.S.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
Female: An update on the case of a high-risk sex offender, Michal Stanley -- police confirmed he entered the U.S. at the border crossing in Blaine, Washington from British Columbia.
Male: We are investigating his crossing.
Female: Stanley served 32 months, released with conditions including not leaving and wearing the monitoring device.
Female: Michael Sean Stanley`s --
(END VIDEOCLIP)
GRACE: Yes, bottom line is he`s got a rap sheet as long as the interstate -- in Canada. So, he escapes across the border and now he`s our problem. They don`t want to spend the time or money to extradite him home. And your big defense, Peter Odom, is that he is also a U.S. citizen? That`s what you got to say?
P. ODOM: Well, Nancy, what Canada is saying is they don`t have him serving anymore time there. He was only on probation. He absconded from probation.
GRACE: He still has open cases.
P. ODOM: Right.
GRACE: He still has open cases. Matt Zarrell, has Canada issued a statement about why they don`t want him?
MATT ZARRELL, "NANCY GRACE" PRODUCER: Yes, what Canada is saying, Nancy, is that the charges he`s currently facing do not warrant extradition, however, if he were to come back into Canada, they would immediately arrest him.
GRACE: OK, so if he goes back to Canada and molests somebody there, they`ll arrest him, so for now we`re just in a holding pattern, waiting. Everyone, tonight we remember American hero -- Army Staff Sergeant Vinson Adkinson, III, just 26, Harper, Kansas. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, fifth tour, loved the outdoors. Father, Vincent, Jr., brother, Jacob, sister, Mary, widow, Veronica. Vinson Adkinson, III, American hero. Everybody get ready to fight crime, and dress up Halloween as your favorite crime fighter -- OK, that would be me. Go to nancygrace.com to get a Halloween package and really scare people like Dr. Drew. He`s coming up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night -- 8 o`clock sharp eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
