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Nancy Grace
Facelift Murder Trial Day Four
Aired October 18, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live to Utah, a 911 call from a doctor/lawyer when his 6-year-old little girl comes home to find Mommy, just days out of a full facelift -- finds Mommy, quote, "face up in red water" in the family bathtub, the death first ruled natural causes, but tonight, a full-fledged affair with a much younger woman uncovered after the doctor actually brings the new girlfriend home to be the nanny to his eight children.
And within hours, just hours after his wife is pronounced dead on a gurney at the hospital, Dr. Martin MacNeill has already cleaned out his wife`s closet.
Bombshell tonight. Day four of the Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial, a huge bathtub carted in and unloaded into the courtroom right in front of judge and jury, this as the state`s evidence mounts against Dr. Martin MacNeill.
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. It is day four of the Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial. A huge bathtub is carted in and unloaded into the courtroom right in front of the judge and jury, this as the state`s evidence is mounting against Dr. Martin MacNeill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you hear Mr. MacNeill state an address there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sounds like 305 to me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
911 OPERATOR: Pleasant Grove Police Department.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) transfer medical (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need an ambulance! (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I`m just asking from you listening to this, were you able to hear him say 3058 Mill Creek?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: By the time I got to the middle of our driveway, I could hear Martin yelling that he needed help. I need some help. I need some help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need help!
911 OPERATOR: They`re on their way. Is your wife breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is not!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was Michele dressed or not?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michele had a long black shirt on and nothing else.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No bottoms.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No bottom. With fluid out of her nose.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what did it look like to you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of snot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just some kind of heart thing. And he said that doctor had called, they had a conference call with the doctor and made sure that the family knew that it was nobody`s fault, that it was just all natural
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Expressed (ph) his deteriorating health in the Sunday school class, that he had had -- he had cancer and he only had, like, six months to live. And he said something to the effect of, you know, Don`t write me off yet.
911 OPERATOR: She`s under the water?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s under the water! (INAUDIBLE) Get me an ambulance!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live here in Provo, just outside the courthouse, as the testimony unfolds from the witness stand. We are taking your calls.
What a day in the courtroom! It seems to me, if I`m not wrong, practically every witness gave a different description of what Michele MacNeill had on at the time of her death. But the reality is this. Martin MacNeill stood by and did not get his wife out of the bathtub where she was lying dead, face up in the water.
I guess it was because of his cancer, or maybe his MS. Oh, wait. Isn`t it right, Jean Casarez, he had neither?
JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: He didn`t. He had neither, but he told the congregation, even at church where he taught Sunday school, that he had cancer. But witnesses today are saying that after Michele died, that when they said, You only have six months to live, he said, Don`t write me off yet.
GRACE: Yes, Don`t write me off yet.
Joining me right now is Jim Kirkwood, talk show host from KTKK, also joining me here in Utah. Jim, the testimony today as it unfolded I find very significant. But nobody could take their eyes off the giant bathtub was brought in and dumped right in front of the judge and jury. Now, the judge has given strict instructions nobody is to get into that bathtub. Only a mannequin is to be used.
What did you observe regarding the testimony today, Jim?
JIM KIRKWOOD, KTKK (via telephone): Well, I thought the testimony was excellent. And the one point that you mentioned, everybody has a different description of what she was wearing as a top. But they all agreed she had nothing on the bottom. And then lying in the water -- the whole thing doesn`t make sense, Nancy. It still doesn`t.
GRACE: You know, I want you to listen to what he says, Dr. MacNeill, on the first phone call to 911. This is where he plants the seed that his wife has fallen into the bathtub. Roll the first of three 911 calls, please, Liz.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
911 OPERATOR: Pleasant Grove Police Department.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) transfer medical (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need -- I need an ambulance! (INAUDIBLE) 3058 Mill Creek!
911 OPERATOR: OK, what`s the problem, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) medical.
911 OPERATOR: Sir, what`s wrong?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) has fallen in the bathtub!
911 OPERATOR: Who`s in the bathtub? Who`s in the bathtub?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife!
911 OPERATOR: OK. Is she conscious?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s not! I`m a physician! I need help!
911 OPERATOR: Sir, I need you to...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Sir, I can`t understand you, OK? Can you calm down just a little bit?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need help!
911 OPERATOR: OK. Your wife is unconscious?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is unconscious! She`s under water!
911 OPERATOR: OK...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the bathtub!
911 OPERATOR: Did you get her out of the water?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t! (INAUDIBLE) lift her! I let the water out! CPR in progress!
911 OPERATOR: She`s under the water?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is out of the water! (INAUDIBLE) ambulance!
911 OPERATOR: OK, is she breathing at all?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is not!
911 OPERATOR: OK, sir, the ambulance has been paged. They`re on their way, OK? Do not hang up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: What? Sir?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Today, a main witness on the stand is the 911 dispatcher that took those calls. Now, after the first 911 call, MacNeill hangs up, and 911 actually calls him back. There are three calls in all.
To Matt Zarrell. Why was the 911 dispatcher so critical today?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, Nancy, it was revealed on cross-examination that when they enhanced the audio of the 911 call that Dr. MacNeill did, in fact, give the correct address. He was so frantic and screaming that the 911 operator, understandably, and everyone, could not make out the last digit of the address that he gave. It wasn`t until the defense slowed the tape down to a crawl that you could hear that last number.
GRACE: OK. Joining me right now was the star witness in court today. It`s Ms. Heidi Peterson. She`s joining us exclusively tonight, the 911 dispatcher. She took that 911 call the day that Ms. MacNeill died, and she testified in court just a few hours ago. Heidi Peterson, thank you for being with us.
HEIDI PETERSON, 911 DISPATCHER: You`re welcome.
GRACE: Heidi, what was it like being on the stand today?
PETERSON: Well, I`ve been a dispatcher for 17 years and been pretty fortunate that this has never happened before. So it was first-time experience and one that I hope I don`t have to do again. It was a little bit scary for me.
GRACE: Well, I thought you held up pretty well. You know, all the brouhaha aside about the 911 call address being incorrect, it was divulged on cross-exam when they played it back in slow motion, you could actually hear him giving the address correctly.
But I want to focus on something that seems to be critical to me. From my understanding, there is no way to perform CPR on somebody if you`re hanging over a high-edged -- a deep dish bathtub with the victim lying in water about two-and-a-half feet below you. Have you ever heard of CPR being performed in that manner?
PETERSON: No, I haven`t. And not being on scene and seeing exactly what was going on was a little bit frustrating because I was trying to see exactly -- or find out exactly where she was at. I didn`t know if it was just her head under the water or her whole body in the bathtub.
He was very -- didn`t really want to give me any information that would help me clarify that so I could give him the proper instructions.
GRACE: Heidi, how is it that you managed to send the ambulance to the right neighborhood?
PETERSON: Well, I also lived in Pleasant Grove my whole life, and I`m pretty familiar with the area. And I knew that the address that was first relayed to us as 305 North Mill Creek is not valid, that the Mill Creek subdivision that I was aware of is much more north than 305.
So in our computer that we put in our calls, I was just kind of playing with the address a little bit, and I got it to take the address of 3005 North Mill Creek, which I knew was actually in that subdivision. So that`s the original address that we dispatched police and medical units to.
GRACE: Was that the right address?
PETERSON: You know, it was surprising to me today in court that I guess it was 3058. I did not know that until today. So no, it was not the right address, but it`s very close.
GRACE: Yes. The reality is, even though you couldn`t understand practically a thing he was saying, you somehow miraculously managed to get the ambulance to the right neighborhood, which was just a miracle.
Heidi Peterson, everyone, taking your calls. She is the 911 dispatcher that actually took that call that really marked the beginning of the unfolding of the homicide, the death, of Michele MacNeill.
Ms. Peterson, do you believe that Martin MacNeill could have been performing CPR at the time of that 911 call?
PETERSON: Well, he told me he was. And then at one point in the call, he yelled at me that he was a physician. So one would assume that this husband is a doctor and he knows how to do CPR, that that would actually be what he was doing. But he was just so difficult in getting me information. I didn`t question it at the time, but after the calls were over and I replayed it, it just didn`t make sense to me.
GRACE: It didn`t make sense that she was in the bathtub and he was performing CPR?
PETERSON: Right. I don`t know how that would happen.
GRACE: OK. There was a lot -- much ado made about what I consider to be a minor point today. Could you explain how the wrong address managed to get -- to become part of the mix of this case?
PETERSON: Well, the bad thing about cell phones is when you call 911 from a cell phone, there is no 100 percent guarantee you can find the address where the person`s calling from. It`s a little bit more accurate today, but even just seven years ago, cell phones hit different towers. And when he called the first time, it went down to another agency in Utah Valley. And then she transferred the call to me, and she gave me what address she was able to obtain from him before he hung up on that dispatcher also.
And so 305 was the address I got from that dispatcher, and then when Martin gave me the address in the second call, to me, that`s what he was calling out. But of course, I knew that 305 was not close to where they could possibly be.
GRACE: Liz, while we have Heidi Peterson with us, let`s roll the other 911 call.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why would an adult female be so...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello!
911 OPERATOR: Sir, this is 911. Can I help you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need help! (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK. They`re on their way. Is your wife breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is not! I am a physician! I`ve got CPR in progress! (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: You`re doing CPR now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Sir, how old is your wife?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife is 50 years old. She just had surgery a couple of days -- a week ago!
911 OPERATOR: What kind of surgery did she have?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had a facelift!
911 OPERATOR: She had a facelift?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes!
GRACE: OK, do you know how to do CPR?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m doing it!
911 OPERATOR: OK, do not hang...
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: And with me right now outside the courthouse is Heidi Peterson, who took that 911 call. Heidi, what was your reaction on the stand when the defense slow-moed it and you heard the address?
PETERSON: I was actually quite shocked because in all the times I had played this call back, dozens and dozens of times -- several times yesterday preparing for this -- I did not once pick that up, that there was something he said after 5, after I got 305. I never even heard that -- you know, any indication of any other numbers.
GRACE: So you were surprised. Did the state, the prosecution -- they had to talk to you before you took the stand. Did they ever play it back for you and go through it with you?
PETERSON: Not in slow motion like that, they did not.
GRACE: OK. Let`s take a listen to the 911 call. This is what started the whole chain of events that night.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Police Department.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, it`s Tony. How are you?
911 OPERATOR: Very good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good. Hey, we got a distress caller from 305 Mill Creek.
911 OPERATOR: Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know if you guys have an address like that or not.
911 OPERATOR: Yes, we do. I fill (ph) that area. 305 what?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just said it was (INAUDIBLE) 305 Mill Creek. And he said -- he sounded really stressed out. I don`t know what -- I don`t know what it was. It may have been a medical, I think. (INAUDIBLE) He mentioned something about his wife.
911 OPERATOR: Was that 305 -- did he give -- west or south?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, he didn`t. And we tried to get that out of him, and then he disconnected and nothing came up on our caller ID.
911 OPERATOR: I know it`s a gated community we have, so I know...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
911 OPERATOR: I`m going to -- could it have been 3005 Mill Creek, I wonder?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It could have been. It sounded like he said 3-0 because he -- he said 305 -- (INAUDIBLE) 305 -- (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: ... 3005 North Mill Creek. OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 3005 North?
911 OPERATOR: Yes. Did he have a call back number, by chance?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) we didn`t (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: No name or nothing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
911 OPERATOR: OK. OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. Thanks. Bye-bye.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Day four of the Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial, a huge bathtub carted in and unloaded into the courtroom right in front of judge and jury, this as the state`s evidence mounting against Dr. Martin MacNeill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you describe her appearance?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I remember that -- the fluid out of her nose (INAUDIBLE) but...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you describe that fluid?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, what did it look like to you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of snot.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Would you describe her hair, what you remember of her hair?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t remember it being wet on the ends, you know? It kind of looked like it was just -- like she might have been wearing a headband, but she wasn`t wearing a headband, you know?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So it was kind of -- are you saying...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michele always had very nice, put-together hair, everything else. And so it just was like if you were going to bed, not for anybody to see.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Yes, I don`t know what this means. But if any of you noticed -- play that back without the sound, please, Liz. It looks like the female defense attorney is about to hop in MacNeill`s lap. I don`t know what that`s all about.
Out to the lines. Kathy in Texas. Hi, Kathy. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I was just wondering, what weight do you think the jury will give to the fact that three separate autopsies say that she died of heart arrhythmia? I think the husband did it, but I`m just wondering what you think, how much weight they`ll put on that, the jurors, when they`re making their decision.
GRACE: To Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner joining me tonight out of Philadelphia. Dr. Manion, thanks for being with us. We know that Dr. Joshua Perper`s evaluation, his study, says that she was drowned. What do you make of the question?
DR. BILL MANION, MEDICAL EXAMINER (via telephone): Well, this is a very tough case, but she does have subgalial (ph) hemorrhage -- in other words, bleeding underneath the scalp at the top of her head. So could she have been driven down into that tub, you know, and her head hit and then become unconscious from a concussion and then be drowned? She could have been held under the water.
So that is a possibility. But the drug levels certainly aren`t very impressive, and she doesn`t have any other significant injuries. So this is a very, very tough case. I think, initially, this is the kind of case...
GRACE: Dr. Manion, can`t you look -- can`t you look at someone`s heart post-mortem and determine if there was a heart attack?
MANION: Well, the person has to live for five or six hours before we can see the changes from a heart attack. If they have an arrhythmia and die within a few minutes, we can`t tell that. We can only speculate on that.
And the finding of her with her top on in the bathtub -- the whole thing is just very suspicious. And I think this is the type of case where the initial autopsy should have called this manner of death undetermined so that a lot of investigation could have occurred at the time.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. We are camped out here, outside the courthouse in Provo, and taking your calls.
To Jean Casarez. Tell me what the different medical examiners found.
CASAREZ: OK. Number one, the medical examiner that did the autopsy found that her death was cardiac-related and the manner of death was accident. And then in 2010, Dr. Gray (ph), who was the chief medical examiner, determined that, yes, it was a cardiac death in combination with drug toxicity. The manner of death undetermined.
GRACE: So the first one is cardiac-related. You cut out on me. On 2010, Gray determined what?
CASAREZ: That it was cardiac death combined with drug toxicity. In other words, because of the drugs and the combination in her system, it caused her heart to go out of control and die.
GRACE: And Dr. Perper?
CASAREZ: Dr. Perper is the one that believes that the immediate cause of death was a drowning. And prosecutors, we understand, take much credence in that theory.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We are here, camped outside the Provo courthouse, day four of the Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial. A bathtub carted into the courtroom today.
Straight to you, Jean Casarez. I don`t recall anybody seeing, when they get into the room, Martin MacNeill is -- does not have her out of the tub. He`s not performing CPR. What do they see when they get into the bathroom?
CASAREZ: This is really significant, what the neighbors say they saw. They saw him bended down, bent over Michele. But as far as actual CPR being given, no one confirms that they saw that.
GRACE: As a matter of fact, we`ve heard from several witnesses -- and I want to go out to Dr. Anthony Griffin, plastic surgeon joining us from LA. Several witnesses state that they see frothy liquid coming out of her nose and mouth, that when they did CPR on her, water came out. And when they looked at Dr. MacNeill, he was totally pristine.
It would seem to me if the victim`s face is covered with mucus, he would at least be wet, if he`s saying she came out of the bathtub.
ANTHONY GRIFFIN, M.D., F.A.C.S., PLASTIC SURGEON: Well, I`m not a medical examiner, but as a plastic surgeon, you would -- common sense would dictate that...
GRACE: Well, you`re an M.D., right?
GRIFFIN: ... if she had mucus and -- right. Yes. But -- but the...
GRACE: And when you perform...
GRIFFIN: ... the circumstances...
GRACE: ... CPR, you have to touch the victim, and the victim`s in the bathtub.
GRIFFIN: Exactly.
GRACE: So if you touch the victim, then you`re going to get wet.
GRIFFIN: You`re going to be wet. Absolutely. So it doesn`t...
GRACE: What does CPR involve, Doctor?
GRIFFIN: His story doesn`t add up. I mean, CPR involves chest compressions. Back then, also trying to...
GRACE: Mouth to mouth.
GRIFFIN: ... make sure the airway was open, or mouth to mouth. Nowadays, the recommendations have changed, but now we actually start with chest compressions. But yes, so you`re going to get involved. It`s a -- CPR is a contact sport, so you`re going to get messy.
GRACE: And the reality -- to Dr. Bill Manion, joining me out of Philly. He`s a doctor, for Pete`s sake! He should know what to do. And standing there twiddling his thumbs, lying to the dispatcher that he`s performing CPR, is not part of saving her life, Manion.
MANION: Yes, I agree. You know, this reminds me of the Kathleen Savio case, the Drew Peterson case, where she was found in the tub also and had an injury to her scalp.
This lady has a pretty good injury to her scalp, and there`s no reason for that, other than speculating that she just happened to pass out as she was getting into the tub. But why does she have her top on if she`s getting into the tub? She should have been nude getting into the tub.
GRACE: Well, speaking of her top, Bill Manion, you just brought up a really good point. Jim Kirkwood, listen to this. When the little girl -- everybody, Jim Kirkwood, talk show host, KTKK, joining me here in Utah.
When the daughter comes in and sees her mother, that image is forever crystallized, imprinted in her mind. And to this day -- she`s 12 -- she says her mother was fully clothed, lying face up, eyes open, hair going down the drain.
KIRKWOOD: Yes.
GRACE: When she ran out to tell her father, Mommy`s in the bathtub, MacNeill comes in. MacNeill then sends the girl to the neighbor. Why send the girl to the neighbor? Because when the neighbors come, he won`t let them help him. They`re women. He says, The women can`t help me. He leaves her in the tub.
KIRKWOOD: But he got the daughter out.
GRACE: Amazingly -- he got the daughter out. Do you think possibly he realized, Oh, my stars, she`s got her clothes on. Nobody`s going to think that she drowned -- got in the tub with her clothes on, and took her clothes off. Where`s the rest of her clothes? Nobody says they see the rest of her clothes, towels, nothing.
But that child, and to this day, is convinced her mother was fully clothed -- but then when the neighbors came over, MacNeill had been alone with the body. Suddenly, she`s missing her pants and underwear.
Listen to this, Kirkwood. Let me play some of the testimony. Let`s go in the courtroom, Liz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You only recall her wearing a black long-sleeved T-shirt, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I remember a white -- like, a tank top, not -- you call them a "wife beater," but I don`t know -- like, a white -- just a white tank top, not -- I know that was under it, but I don`t know. I do recall the black.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You stated that Michele was wearing a white T- shirt.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that T-shirt was wet, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The T-shirt was transparent?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was not wearing a long, dark shirt?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you recall her -- whether she was dressed or not?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She -- I recall a -- she didn`t have anything on except for a light-colored, white tank top, kind of a spaghetti strap tank top.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But nothing else was on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So Jean Casarez, we know that MacNeill wasn`t performing CPR. So what was he doing during the time he sent his daughter next door? His daughter saw her dressed, fully dressed. When she comes back, she`s semi- nude.
CASAREZ: I don`t think we`ve heard in trial testimony what was happening when Ada (ph) left to go to the neighbor`s. The defense says, though, he was doing CPR, and the mucus may have not have been blue-green but transparent. Therefore, people couldn`t see that had transferred onto his mouth and lips.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight out of Philly, Danny Cevallos. Also out of New York, Alex Sanchez. First to you, Alex. Why is it the doctor lied on the 911 tape? He was not performing CPR.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, it`s sounds to me like that tape actually helps the doc. He sounded very frantic to me, and it turns out that he was telling the truth about the address where he lived. And you know what that shows, Nancy? It shows that the prosecution was being very sloppy.
GRACE: It shows you`re avoiding the question.
SANCHEZ: They listened to those tapes. They listened to them carefully. They went over them. How come they didn`t come into court...
GRACE: Shoes you`re avoiding the question.
SANCHEZ: ... and reveal to the jury that he actually told the right address? And I think that`s very sloppy by the prosecution. And if you`re sloppy, there you may be sloppy in other areas of this case, Nancy.
GRACE: OK. Since you refuse to answer the question I put to you -- Danny Cevallos, I`ll try it with you. And I actually agree with you, Sanchez. I don`t know that I would have thought to play the 911 call in slow motion. I mean, even the dispatcher, who`s with me, right here outside the courthouse, was shocked when the defense played it in slow motion. Nobody caught it, even her.
And I`d like to point out that the dispatch operator before her, he also -- she also got the wrong address. She got 305. That`s not the right address.
SANCHEZ: Yes, but they`re not forensics...
GRACE: So it`s not just Heidi.
SANCHEZ: You know what? They`re not forensic specialists, but the district attorney has access...
GRACE: Yes, I know that.
SANCHEZ: ... to forensic specialists, and they didn`t do their job, Nancy.
GRACE: And you still didn`t answer my question. So what about it, Cevallos? Why did he lie on the 911 call a couple of times, claiming he was doing CPR, when he was not? He was standing there twiddling his thumbs, probably hiding her pajama bottoms that she had on before.
DANNY CEVALLOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you`ve concluded that there`s no way he could have possibly done CPR. So to say that he lied is kind of a stretch, wouldn`t you agree? Even if he was or was not doing CPR...
GRACE: No.
CEVALLOS: ... that ultimately doesn`t get to your ultimate fact that you have to get around...
GRACE: Cevallos...
CEVALLOS: ... Nancy, as a prosecutor, which is there are three prosecution medical experts that will agree cardiac arrhythmia may have caused the death. So we can talk about CPR, whether he lied, whether he did not. Ultimately, that`s an interesting fact. I agree the man is creepy. But you still as a prosecutor have to meet your burden.
GRACE: I don`t even know why you keep saying that because that was not the question. I guess that you just...
CEVALLOS: I answered it.
GRACE: ... get on a roll and you say something that you know to be true, which is the state has the burden. Nobody`s arguing about that.
But I -- I`ve got two...
CEVALLOS: I answered your question.
GRACE: ... doctors and one -- two medical doctors with me right now and one 911 specialist, and they all three have agreed in the last 15 minutes that it is impossible to perform CPR with the victim lying in water, and you hanging over the side of the bathtub, all right?
So I don`t have to deduce anything. It`s obvious, all right? Just because -- I come outside and I see suddenly there`s water on the floor and women are rushing by with umbrellas, I don`t have to see the storm to know it rained. I know, just like mathematics, 2 and 2 is 4, that he could not have performed CPR on her, and he lied.
Now my question -- that you won`t answer -- is, why?
SANCHEZ: You know, Nancy...
CEVALLOS: And I will answer it.
SANCHEZ: Nancy, he may have actually tried.
CEVALLOS: No, wait. Nancy concludes -- Nancy, you`re saying, why did he lie? We do not know that he lied. There is evidence that it is impracticable to conduct CPR. But we do not know and we will never know for sure. That`s a credibility determination.
GRACE: OK.
CEVALLOS: So when you asked me if he lied...
GRACE: You already said that.
CEVALLOS: ... we have no proof that he lied.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While you and Martin were working on -- on Michele, doing CPR, did Martin say anything?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did. He was -- he was instructive through the whole process, like, I don`t believe that I ever started or stopped on my own accord. He would always tell me when to do it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Did he say anything else besides instructions about CPR?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. There was -- yes. He would make -- he would make different comments. He would -- I would be doing chest compressions. He would say, Stop, and then he would act like he got his ear down and was listening. Then he would put his face over hers. Then he would tell me, OK, continue. And so I would continue.
And then he`d throw his hands in the air. I think twice he would say, Why? Why would you do this? All because of a stupid surgery. And then he`d say, OK., continue. So I`d continue doing chest compressions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, that`s some performance.
Out to you, Jean Casarez. Jean, as a matter of fact, it was not her idea to have the facelift. She didn`t want the facelift. So all this drama in front of all the witnesses, claiming, Oh, why did you have to have the facelift? Why did you take all these pills? That was his idea.
CASAREZ: That`s what the doctor said. The plastic surgeon said that it was Dr. MacNeill`s idea, that he was the one that kept talking about it, while Michele just remained quiet when they were at the doctor`s office.
We are taking your calls. Out to Eileen in Missouri. Hi, Eileen. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Yes. My question is, having a medical background and a criminal justice background -- the red blood that Ada saw, or the red water, were there any swabs or anything taken of the origination of the blood? Blood dilutes very quickly in water, and there must have been quite an amount of blood to be in that water. And I`m just wondering, did he drain the bathtub? Was the bathtub swabbed? And where did that blood come from?
GRACE: Eileen -- hold Eileen, please. Eileen, Dr. MacNeill did drain the bathtub, according to him. To you, Matt Zarrell. I don`t recall any swabbing of the tub being done at all.
ZARRELL: No, Nancy, I don`t recall it being done at all. And what they do talk about the source of the blood, a lot of witnesses are referencing the incisions from the surgery on Michele.
GRACE: Out to Carol in Florida. Hi, Carol. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I`m a long-time watcher and I love your show!
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. So my question is, if you were desperate and your spouse is lying in the tub, wouldn`t he have accepted any help from anyone coming in there to get his wife out of the tub, to give her CPR?
And then he hung up on the 911 caller several times, like about three times. So if he`s really that desperate, he wouldn`t have hung up on 911. So that`s my question.
GRACE: You know what? That`s an excellent question. Out to Jim Kirkwood, KTKK. That point was very apparent in court today. What do you make of it?
KIRKWOOD: That is what is critical about this. I mean, first of all, Doug Daniels`s (ph) suspicion in the way he phrased it during his testimony, and then his constant hanging up, his constant performance, constantly giving people kind of their testimony. I mean, if you examine what he`s saying, he`s basically feeding them information to tell the police and everyone.
GRACE: Everyone, we are here outside the Provo courthouse. Right now, "CNN Heroes."
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GRACE: Welcome back. We are live here in Provo. To Dr. Eris Huemer, psychotherapist at Dreris.com (ph) joining me out of LA. You know, if I was trying to save my husband, I would do anything to get him out of that tub. Anything! If I had to crawl on top of him to try to do CPR, I would do it.
So I don`t understand why he rejected the help of the neighbors. That was Carol in Florida`s question.
ERIS HUEMER, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, I would have taken my husband out of the tub and left the phone and wouldn`t have hung up on 911 ever.
So I, personally, this man -- the hairs on the back of my neck stand out when I even think of this case. It`s like, have you ever seen the movie from Leonardo DiCaprio, "Catch Me If You Can"? This man`s lies and manipulations are much worse. They pale in comparison to that movie.
And I believe that he`s a sociopath. He`s a liar. He does everything he can to get out of his own situation and what he`s in. He`s an actor. He wants to make his own reality and manipulate it to where he wanted his life to go. So this is a part of his act.
GRACE: I want to go back to a special guest joining us tonight, Ms. Heidi Peterson. She`s the 911 dispatcher that took that call, caused a big brouhaha in court today. Neither she nor the 911 dispatcher before her could understand what MacNeill was trying to give them as an address. In retrospect, many court watchers believe he intended to mislead them.
Heidi, when you look back on it all, did you have any idea that you, who was just trying to do your job, would end up in such a conflict in a courtroom, be all over the news, be such a big stink, is the only way to put it?
PETERSON: No, I didn`t. And one of the most frustrating things about this call to me was that we have certain questions that we are trained to ask. There are protocol questions, and we follow those very closely. And if we don`t get the answer to one question, we are not to move on to the next one.
And so that`s the procedure I was trying to do with Mr. MacNeill. And he was very, very frustrated with me, I felt like, and in return, I became frustrated with him because I just wanted to get all the information so that we could update the law enforcement officers and the medical personnel that was responding, so they`d be prepared when they arrived on scene as to what exactly they were going to be dealing with.
GRACE: And to save somebody`s life. I`m just wondering, Ms. Peterson, is it any comfort to you at all, any consolation that the 911 dispatcher before you got the wrong address, same thing as with you? He was rushing over it so quickly that the prosecutors, who probably listened to this call a million times before trial, didn`t hear it.
I hope you`re not carrying this around like you made some kind of a mistake because it`s very clear you did not.
PETERSON: No, I don`t. And I felt like I did the best that I could. And I felt like I was pretty on top of things when I was able to get the address as close as I did. I mean, literally, it`s probably two houses away from the actual address to where I sent them, so...
GRACE: It`s a miracle!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are live here at the Provo courthouse, bringing you, as it happens, the Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial.
We have traveled to Provo in our attempt to seek justice in our own way, and what we have found is a jury in the box, prosecution`s opening, defense opening statements, witnesses now taking the stand.
At the heart of this is Michele MacNeill. But when you think about it, also her children, eight children, her daughters banding together in the belief that their father killed their mother.
It strikes me -- and it hasn`t come into evidence yet -- the moment when one daughter pulled the other into a closet and shut the door so no one could hear and said, I think Daddy killed Mother. I think Daddy killed Mother.
It`s been a long road to this day, the last day of the first week of the trial of Martin MacNeill, and I want to thank you for being with us.
Let`s stop and remember American hero, Army sergeant Tristan (ph) Southworth, just 21, West Danville, Vermont, Bronze Star, Purple Heart, the Vermont Patriot Medal, loved baseball, parents Julie (ph) and Michael (ph), brothers Matt and Robert. Tristan Southworth, American hero.
Court is done for the day, but Lady Justice is still at work. "DR. DREW" up next, everyone. I`ll see you Monday night, 8:00 o`clock sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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